Well, uh, like, nothing happened
Posted on July 31st, 2008 – 4:55 PMBy Howard
No Beltre. No Roberts. No Grudzielanek. No Bay. No bullpen arm. The first trade deadline has come and gone.
Thanks to those of you who weighed in earlier today. Almost 300 comments, many of them tough and emotional, and I deleted only one — because it was totally off-point and stupidly abusive — and another well-intentioned comment reacting to it.
Here’s the bright side of it all: It’s the last day of July and we were able to growl and grumble and call out the villain of our choice while the team that we’re following is 1 1/2 games out of first place in a “rebuilding” year.
Yes, there are dangers ahead. A road-heavy schedule and young arms/minds/bats that haven’t seen the heat of a major-league title race. Alexi Casilla out of the lineup isn’t good and the bullpen’s margin for error is tiny.
I’ve said this before, but it bears repeating right now: This is better than what we could have imagined. Amazingly, the AL Central is still there for the taking. Thanks to Detroit and Cleveland for that.
Getting after it starts now.
43 Responses to "Well, uh, like, nothing happened"
This is typical Twins behavior. We don’t “expect” to be in this position, so let’s enjoy the ride. Instead, let’s go for it!! C’mon guys!!
Of course nothing happened. Why would it? These are the Twins.
I’m just looking forward to 3-4 years down the road when Baker, Liriano and Slowey are gone to FA and we have nothing to show for it.
But I’m sure by then we’ll have 2 WS titles.
The first trade deadline has come and gone.
That’s the key point. The Twins favorite trade deadline is still 4 weeks away.
Hooray for washed up vets!
There still is another month left for adjustments. The Griffey trade made the Sox really unbalanced. They added in a place where they had no need while ignoring their bullpen. Good for the Twins.
Detroit’s bullpen +Farnsworth -(Jones+Zumaya) is worse than last week, and they lost their main catcher.
Things look good for the Twins, but they need to make some small adjustments (like addition by subtraction: naming Guerrier as the 8th inning man, getting rid of Monroe/Everett/Bass, replacing them with Ruiz/Macri/Liriano -Perkins in the pen) and things would be ok…
I was certainly not for trading any of the four main starters in the twins rotation. But if they want to keep all those guys as the Twins look fwd to 2010 and beyond…what is the purpose of keeping all the arms in the minors then.
When is Mulvey, Humber or Duesing ever going to crack this rotation? Hell, Liriano can’t even do it. What about Robertson and Manship? The twins need to grow some stones. Im so tired of this conservative approach to things. The Jason Bay trade to the Rays that almost went down would have had be so pissed. The rays were going to give up our equivalents of Hughes and Duesing for a right handed hitting all star. What about the Nady trade? Nady for nobody! Pretty much the Twins equivalent of Joe Benson, Pino and Devries. Not that we need another OF but come on!
Now the infield of Harris Punto and Everett…what happened to this team?
Do you all think there was any talk of dealing Liriano himself? He is obviously in the doghouse with Smith, Gardenhire, etc. and he was ripping up the minors leaving everyone drooling over him. He just doesn’t seem like he’s a “Twins guy” and I wonder if they were dangling him.
I think the Division is still there, but I don’t think the playoffs are there at all. They haven’t been all season. Twins need a lot more than one trade would provide to fix them to fight against the likes of Boston or Anaheim this year.
They could’ve maybe gotten a 3B, OR maybe a bullpen. But to get one means they wouldn’t have the pieces to get the other.
It’s funny, clamoring for names such as Aurilla, Grudzy, and HAWKINS? When these are the types of guys the Twins are panned for when they sign them in the offseason.
But that’s the way of things.
If you look at the division, the Tigers got Farnsworth, but at the same time lost Pudge and lost Zumaya and Jones.
The White Sox, they got Griffey. Big name, but I don’t think he’s going to do for them what they think he will. I thought the Sox needed pitching help more than offense anyway…
The Twins had targets. Roberts, Beltre, heck…they even checked on Holiday. But I was glad they didn’t just pander and settle for a guy just to make the deal when the others fell through.
I keep saying it, because it’s just downright true. The Twins FO was caught completely off guard this by this season’s success. Because of that they were caught with some place holder players that they can’t do anything with (unless they want to DFA half the team).
People rip on them for always “planning” for the future. Well that’s exactly what happened. Buscher wasn’t supposed to do as well as he has…nor was Casilla or Span. Nor was any of the rotation.
And for all the problems Livan had…people were willing to give up Perkins or Blackburn for Beltre, thus leaving Livan in the rotation? That’s crazy. I’d rather see 5 good starting pitchers out there and have Livan replace a DFAed Bass.
The Twins will have several Everett/Punto types coming off the books in 09. Now that they know things are going a bit quicker on the rebuilding path than they thought, they’ll be able to step back in the offseason and assess their situation better than with a day before the deadline (Casilla picked a BAD time to get hurt)
Buckshotmike - “When is Mulvey, Humber or Duesing ever going to crack this rotation? Hell, Liriano can’t even do it. What about Robertson and Manship? The twins need to grow some stones. Im so tired of this conservative approach to things.”
my thoughts exactly.
We don’t “expect” to be in this position…
Were you here in December? Judging from the Vocal Majority, this team was never going to see the plus side of .500 again.
Yeah, pretty sure this was a surprise.
WE NEVER EXPECT TO BE IN THIS POSITION, THAT’S THE PROBLEM!!!
In looking at things, it seems to me the Twins were very well a victim of their own success. The Twins needed to buy, but any sellers were probably demanding what is arguably the future of the franchise.
You look at the pitching staff and and just who are you going to give up to get a bat? Okay, after you give up a Slowey, or Blackburn, or Perkins you are basically stuck with Livan Hernandez for the rest of the year. And it leaves the pitching staff with no depth whatsoever.
There is no one else on the staff that is really worth mentioning as a trade for that power hitting bat.
Everyone wanted Bill Smith to make a deal. Well, he did, this last winter. He gave up Matt Garza to bring in a young and promising player.
You people who were all over Bill Smith for not making a trade are the same ones bemoaning the move that sent Garza to the Rays.
It’s been a great year so far, let’s see what happens.
Do you think the trade of Pudge for Farnsworth is being treated the same in Detroit as the Castillo deal was here last year?
A great clubhouse guy and good hitting catcher. …for farnsworth?
T,
Looks like you and I are thinking the same things.
I’d guess that Boof is gone shortly and Livan will go to the pen so Liriano can come up.
The Twins needed to buy, but any sellers were probably demanding what is arguably the future of the franchise.
Exactly. Heck, teams were asking for SPAN.
Twins can’t trade Span…he’s there leadoff hitter.
I think the Twins will be able to move a guy like Boof through waivers. I still think Liriano is with the team (if not starting) Friday.
Once he started Sunday, there was no reason to call him up until close to what would be his next start (Friday).
When I say “through waivers” I mean “in a trade”
I guess I wasn’t expecting much from Minnesota. It still would have been really nice to see Bonser traded to the Rangers or somebody for a taco or washing machine. Glad to hear that Liriano will be up by the weekend (probably).
The Twins need to face the fact that they need to eat up someone’s contract when they cut him/her. Lamb would be expensive to cut, Livan would too, but somebody needs to be dumped. With the salary down this year after the loss of Santana and Hunter, the Twins can afford to buy out someone, especially now that they need to.
I haven’t known Bill Smith for long, but this deadline sure is telling a lot about the future of this franchise.
The bottom line is that something needs to happen. If you move Bass through waivers I’m almost positive nobody would grab him, though it wouldn’t be the end of the world by any means if they did. Bonser wouldn’t stand a chance going through waivers, so he’s going to be a Twin for a while.
Cut Bass, Livan, or Lamb. Bring up Liriano. The team is remarkably better.
T,
At the beginning of this year, I thought Span was going to be traded, because at that point, it didn’t look like there was room for him.
Obviously, with the way things have worked out, I’d guess the F/O knows a bit more about baseball than I do. haha
I’m more disappointed this year that the Twins stood still than I have been in prior years.
I do think, in the end, the FO looked at what the Tigers and WSox did (and I agree with T… those two teams are actually worse after their deals rather than better) and decided that with Liriano and Cuddyer joining the roster soon, this team can still compete in this division.
I would hope they’ll still look at a waiver deal to replace Casilla (Grudzeilanek very possibly could clear waivers), but they stood by their convictions not to deal Baker, Blackburn, Perkins, Slowey or Liriano. Whether or not we agree that all 5 of those guys should be off-limits, I give them credit for standing by their convictions. It’s their jobs on the line, not mine.
On a side note, I think the Seattle GM is a total moron. I can not imagine he impressed his ownership by not shedding ANY of his high-priced players when they’re 25ish games out at the deadline. He really overplayed his hand, imo.
The Twins are basically playing with 20 guys on the team. They cant trust the following guys in any situation:
Monroe
Lamb
Everett
Bonser
Bass
I didnt even mention Punto…the Twins have gone from a team with a semi decent bench to one with a bunch of dead weight. What happens when Cuddyer comes back and Liriano gets called up? What about Tolbert…if he plays again this year? Will Smith sack up and cut these guys? Will Pohlad let him since its a gauranteed loss of money?
JimCrikket,
So true. Pelekoudas just missed any opportunity to move “interim” out of his title. He could have moved at least 3 players (Washburn, Ibanez, Beltre) to get something that would make Seattle competitive in that division next year but he did nothing…
But hey, guys, we’re “small market”…even though we’ll be roughly twice the size of Cincy or KC in the 2010 census.
The compensation picks for Ibanez being a Type A at the end of the season are worth considerably more to Seattle than the mediocre return they would have likely received.
Washburn has little value. Trading him would serve one purpose, get his high salary and mediocre talent off the roster. They still have another month to try dumping him on the Yankees.
Maybe something might have gotten done if the Boofer hadn’t walked Konerko last night leading to the 3 run HR by Ramirez. How in heaven’s name can he walk Konerko who was not able to hit the side of a barn coming into this series??? Unfortunately he is showing a little life now, so I hope we haven’t helped him out of his slump. We seem to have a way of doing that for teams who come limping in, blow us out for at least one game and then go on a hot streak after that. If there was any chance with the scout in the Metrodome last night, wish Gardy had sat the Boofer down while he was still smelling like roses…he was OK until he walked Konerko. Jeez, Twins aren’t too good at trade marketing!
Can’t wait for the Sox return to the Dome in Sept. If Jr. is still in one piece and still playing CF I can’t wait to see the gappers out there between him and Dye. Someone may get an inside the parker, especially if it’s one of the speedsters.
I can certainly understand the Twins’ arguments for not giving up one of their pitchers for Beltre. I’d have like to have seen them do something — like trying to get something for Boof — but the fact is I’d like to see the Twins protect their farm system a bit because it’s a bit depleted after last winter.
I said during the heat of the BRING LIRIANO UP blogging that Bill Smith should be given a pass until 7/31 in case there was anything cooking in the trade mill. Well, as usual, nothing happened. Sooooo, especially with another stellar performance by Livo + Boof, let’s get crackin’ Billy. All this “veteran leadership” is killing what chances we have at making a run in these last two months!!!
An almost sure loss every five days is just not going to do it. I was so happy when the boys gave the big run suppport this week to Baker rather than you know who. It looks really sick when he gets no run support and/or we run into a pitcher we can’t seem to figure out.
Blake, I think the F/O got a little lucky that Span and Casilla decided to stop sucking after their initial Twins debuts. I seem to recall neither callup being met with much *huzzah* when it was annouced.
Now Span and Casilla might as well be in with the untouchables Mauer and Morneau.
And GO-GO: A sure loss every 5 days is what would still have been happening had they dealt for Beltre. (Because Liriano would have taken over for the vacated spot, not Livan) 
Crikket, Mariners win worst franchise hands down right now. I wonder how Ichiro feels right now? Even though I think he’s more like a Manny ($$$) than not, I imagine he’d also like a WS ring to add to that museum of his in Japan. Not a chance at the rate they’re going. As much as we complain about the Twins FO, there are definitely far worst. I’d hate to be a fan of either Seattle or Oakland (how does Billy Beans keep his fan base when he seems to hold the world’s biggest baseball player garage sale every 3 or 4 years or so?). At least the Twins FO keeps us all guessing and hoping every year. With Beane there’s no doubt.
buckshotmike,
“What about the Nady trade? Nady for nobody! Pretty much the Twins equivalent of Joe Benson, Pino and Devries.”
Just because YOU have never heard of Jose Tabata and Ross Ohlendorf and think they are the equivalent of Joe Benson, Crap and Crap, doesn’t mean that the Pirates are as clueless as you are. Jose Tabata is better and more MLB-ready than any prospect the Twins have to offer.
NOT EQUIVALENT!!!!
T, after the highway robbery that the Yanks pulled off with the Pirates I’m not totally convinced that the Twins had to give up any of their fighting five (the young rotation). Of course with the Mariners who knows, they are incredibly stupid especially holding out for Washburn. So maybe they did demand one of our good pitchers.
Anyway, I’m 100% OK with not giving away any of those guys…they are cheap and will keep the Twins competitive for several years until they are eligible for FA. I just hope Smith has the guts and Pohlad $$ to sign one or more of them long term or else it will be real panic time in several years when they are all older and much more experienced all at the same time (unless the pipeline from the farm system continues to be good).
I was never expecting that one of the other four would be traded. I was hoping we could at least get rid of Boof, move Livo to the pen which I have been saying for a few weeks now, and get Liriano up here. I still think DFA Bass, move Livo. That way it is not an automatic loss every 5 days.
Silly comments thus far. Get this straight folks: We are a small market team. We can not employ the same tactics as the Angels, Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, etc. We have a history of being very successful building players acquired via the draft or through highly selective trades. None of the aforementioned players (Betre, etc.) are going to make the team any more contenders than they already are. You don’t like the Twins’ decisions, move to a large market location.
JDM says ” I’d have like to have seen them do something — like trying to get something for Boof”. And you know for a fact that they didn’t?
If any of you were in the Twin’s offices this week, listening in on the phone calls and reading the emails, please do give us the expose…
GO-GO: The Yankees trade took talent. Tabata was one of the guys the Twins were looking at during Santana trade talks.
The big thing is, the Twins don’t have any promising hitting prospects because right now they’re with the big club. (Span, Gomez, Casilla, Buscher, etc)
Yeah it doesn’t say much for the offense in the AAA clubs, but it tells you why the Twins couldn’t adjust.
The Yankees had the prospects the Twins didn’t. Especially on offense.
Minor trades could have been done. We could have had Hawkins or Grudzy and traded Boof. I would have been happy with just one or 2 of these types of moves. what’s so frustrating is that they can’t seem to get even the minor deals done when there’s a deadline.
T, There are question marks about Tabata — he is not as golden currently as his original top prospect billing. I would have expected Buscher to be part of the talks about Beltre. So it’s not like we had absolutely no position players to talk about.
T,
Nothing like having the Baseball Gods prove what a crapshoot some of these players are.
Which also probably figured into Bill Smith not making a trade. I would imagine he just couldn’t see giving up the future for Beltre and it wasn’t worth it to make a trade that would only improve the team marginally.
Kind of an interesting article on SI.com. Terry Ryan talks about the GM’s role leading up to the trade deadline. Yeah, lots of opinions, good and bad, about TR and such… but it’s an interesting read.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/07/31/aschburner.ryan/index.html?eref=T1
Well, the deadline came and went and nothing happened with the Twins. While I know a lot of people may be disappointed, I must admit, I am not one of them.
For one thing, we are about to make one of the biggest and most lopsided trades of the year. Livan for Liriano. If there is any truth to some of the things I’ve read today. The Twins are about to cut Livan and finally bring up Liriano. That will be huge!
A lot was made out of getting a big right handed bat for 3rd base. I got to be honest, I really like Buscher. Not only do I see him potentially becoming the Twins 3rd baseman of the future, the guy is producing right now. Even if they could have landed Beltre - and that’s a big if - just how much better off would this team really be? Beltre would hit a few more home runs, but Buscher would probably get on base more. Cuddy will be back soon and I don’t see Beltre protecting Morneau any better then Cuddy. In that regard, the trade would be a push.
Bullpen help would have probably been nice as well, but there were a lot of teams that couldn’t close deals by the deadline and I suspect there will be a lot of players showing up on the waiver wire very soon.
Lastly, most of the deals that actually did go down seemed to involve outfielders and that’s one area that the Twins are well stocked in. I also wasn’t too impressed with the moves Detroit and Chicago pulled off. I also think that even though Bay put up similar stats to Manny, he now has to learn a new league and adjust to a new city and so on. I think Boston took a small step backward as well.
I think it’s Minnesota’s division to lose and I also think that with Liriano on the starting staff, they have enough to make things interesting for the Angels come October.
Well, I’m disappointed, but not surprised or mad (despite my protestations yesterday on the blogs).
Here is what is likely:
Liriano for Livan
Cuddeyer for Gomez
Both of those are steps up. I’m not sure either is enough, however. We just don’t know for sure how well Liriano will pitch, and Cuddeyer could break down again. I’d have much, much preferred to get a SS or 2B. My favorite target was LaRoche from the Dodgers. He is a prospect that could be very good. I’m not certain he helps this year, though.
My biggest issue with the lack of action is the risk of the future. Everyone thought Cleveland would be great this year. They had plenty of young guys that should be better. They made some minor adjustments to be better. But, it didn’t happen. The further things are away, the more variability there is. The Twins are more likely to be in it this year than next, simply because they are in it this year (and we don’t know what will happen next year).
This is the situation they were in earlier this decade. Good, maybe very good. But, they aren’t clearly better than other teams, and they might be clearly less talented than the Rays and Angels. I think when you have the chance, you need to go for it. I’d have gladly dealt two of their minor league pitching prospects for a legit fielder. I may have dealt an existing SP and a prospect as well. Teams don’t need 5 good starters, they need 3-4, and good-great hitting.
I guess that is the root of my frustration. I am having flashbacks to earlier in the decade, a dh or 3B away, and the Twins unwilling to trade for the present. But, this year, it is 3B, SS, 2B and maybe RF (or LF - they need some slugging from 1 OF). I don’t care how many times they win the division, I want another WS title. And, I want it while my sons are in their formative years.
btw, I think Gomez stays on the team, but moves to the bench.
It’s time for Liriano to shut up and pitch. It’s time for Livan to take a seat. It’s time to toss our “stable of slightly better than average” young pitchers into the fire and see what they’re made of.
I say it is thanks to the Twins for the Central being up for grabs. The “experts” had them in last place with KC at this time and a daily target for the barbs that come from the ignorant. Look at the Twins record and compare with other divisions. Not shabby at all. What the heck were Cleveland and Detroit going to do? Go undefeated? I would say maybe more like 100 to 103 wins if they would have performed up to expectations of sensible writers. Where will the Twins wind up the season. Could it be close to the 95-98 win platuea? No, don’t give Detroit and Cleveland so darn much credit, give the home team some credit as they are responsible for their position. Thanks.
I’m not a big fan of much of anything ESPN does. Where I live, back in my pre-XM life I could easily pull in WTAM from Cleveland, listen to most Yankee games on a local outlet(little known fact: there are many Yankee fans -not transplants- in Western MA), and listen to the Red Sox on the radio and on NESN. The attitude that I’ve detected from these broadcasts is very favorable toward the Twins’ team, organization AND the manager. I’m some what ambivalent about Gardy (can one be somewhat ambivalent?)but it seems to me that he’s well regarded around the league, both by organizations and by the media. And… folks remember- we’re having a year none of us expected, so let’s have fun!
