A crazy night, a crazy road ahead
Posted on August 1st, 2008 – 8:45 AMBy Howard
Small ball is all well and good, but three-run homers are like chugging Red Bull, especially when you don’t drink the stuff too often.
I think the rush the Twins got from the Morneau and Kubel bombs will reinforce what’s possible in the final third of the season. To come from four runs down twice in a series against the team ahead of you — and the team that administered a bad beatdown in their previous series — was almost as good (75 percent as good) as dominating the White Sox from start to finish. And if Wednesday’s loss is the one that will finally spark changes in the pitching staff, then maybe it wasn’t a total loss.
I’ve written about my concerns over the rest of the schedule, especially the 13-game road trip to the West Coast and Toronto. But check out the White Sox schedule and you’ll see they still have seven games left with Boston and four at Yankee Stadium. The Tigers actually have the easiest August/September schedule, but they’re the Tigers and have shown a knack for staggering regardless of how hard they try to walk a straight line.
I assume we will finally see Francisco Liriano in the rotation, perhaps Monday night at Seattle in place of Livan, whose use of mirrors and sparklers to rack up victories has apparently run its course. Many of us tried to have Senor Smoke Free’s back, but digging five-run holes for your team in consecutive key starts isn’t the stuff of an able veteran.
I’ve made the argument — backed up by what people have told me — that Livan has been a good influence on some of the young pitchers. Now, however, it’s time for them to cut the cord and figure things out among themselves and with Rick Anderson as their Obi-Wan Kenobi. (Change speeds tonight, Young Blackburn!)
Friends, the AL Central is there for the taking. There’s hard work ahead. Starting pitchers will have to step up and pitch like Viola/Blyleven in ‘97 ‘87 and Morris/Erickson/Tapani in ‘91. The Twins can’t pine for Casilla if the news about his hand is bad and Cuddyer can’t sulk if he finds himself playing a fourth outfielder/platoon DH role when he returns to health. Lamb and Monroe need to understand they are end-of-the-benchers and we have to understand that, as much as we’re tempted to disrespect them, having them available beats heck out of having Luis Rodriguez and Jason Tyner in those spots. Punto has to resist all kinds of batcentric temptations.
And the front office needs to keep working on improvements. Trades can be made if players can get through waivers and I wouldn’t rule out the Twins being able to get their hands on Mark Grudzielanek and/or Rich Aurelia for the final weeks of the season. Same goes for another reliever.
I hesitate to crib a slogan from a presidential candidate, but the Twins and their fans can honestly look at the road ahead and tell one another: “Yes, we can!”
other people are here too
166 Responses to "A crazy night, a crazy road ahead"
Man, Viola and Bert in 97 would probably have actually helped…. the staff was pretty bad sans Radke. 
I sure hope Punto learns how to lay down a sac bunt in the next month or so. Man that drives me crazy.
Shawn,
My location was off just enough to get me into trouble. Nice catch, Kirby.
How about Span’s bunt last night in the 8th inning? One of the best I’ve seen this year by any Twins players. AJ’s sinkerball to 1B was terrible too.
lamb and monroe are getting about $20,000 a game to sit on the bench and a nice meal money check on the road so i don’t think they have much to complain about. produce more if you want to play everyday!!
It was fun to watch AJ fuming as the Twins took the lead.
jama:
Good point about LNP’s bunting. That wasn’t the first time he’s done that.
I was really hoping to get Beltre as the key move. After watching LNP and Everett I’ll be happy if we can get anyone, like Grudz, who can get LNP back to short and back down at the bottom of the order.
Everett didn’t have a challenging play to make so I couldn’t see how his shoulder is but even the routine plays looked a bit lollipoppy on the throws. I want him on the bench or gone. Soon.
Get me Grudz, ditch Livan and I’ll take my chances for the last two months and hope they address right-hand power in the offseason when a bunch of the millions come off the books.
IF Houdini comes back who would make the most sense to be the guy to spell each outfield position? I would guess Span but I hate to have him miss an inordinate amount of games. There should be ample at bats for the four of them but I would have Gomez be the one with less of them if that’s how it has to be.
Oh, I think it’s time to stick Kubes in as the regular DH except against an exceptional lefty. Let’s find out if he is the answer or needs to be platooned or moved in the offseason. I think he can succeed against many lefties.
I’m ok for the rest of the season with a Harris/Buscher platoon at 3B, but dang, do we have to go through this 6 out of 8 stretch of lefty starters? We just beat three…can you opponents please stop organizing your rotation this way? I get the impression some of these teams would activate Robin Roberts just to get a lefty starter. Didn’t we prove this week that we can handle them? Enough!
I want to see Buscher a little more to help see if he is an answer. His arm frightens me, though. I don’t want MVP killed because of an errant shotgun at third.
A couple of tweaks (Grudz! Grudz! Grudz!) and we’re good to go…nothing our division opponents did scares me. I think the Whities outfield d just got a little more suspect.
I don’t know about you guys but I have a nice grey Twins TC hat that I would never throw on the field!!
Mr. Norwood,
I second that about Kubel as our regular DH, let’s see what fulltime numbers he can put up. When Cuddy comes back that could create a problem and we might want to use him as DH, but for now let’s see Kubel as our everyday DH. The Twins haven’t had a consistant DH in years like most teams do.
I got a nice Black and Silver TC hat that would get no where near that field
Willie Norwood,
What are you talking about? Grudz? The deadline was yesterday. It’s over.
Morneau2008,
No, but do you have a second one you’d be OK with losing? I mean I’d never throw my good luck “Sprewell Racing” cap on the field, either.
It’s like bringing a spare baseball to the home run porch to toss on the field in case you catch an opponent’s homer. (Disclaimer: Section 220 does not promote any activity in violation of Metrodome or mlb rules.)
By the way, is your gray Twins cap the one from Cap Night when the caps were so big they could slide down over ears and cheeks?
Dustin,
No, it’s not over. If a player clears waivers, he can be traded.
Joe Posnanski isn’t the only one enamored of the Twins. A local (Lexington, KY) sports columnist shared some words about Griffey’s trade to the Sox, and brought up the Twins:
“…And to stay viable, teams like Cincinnati, franchises that won’t indulge in bidding wars, must trade star players before they start to slide, when they’re marketability is at its peak….That’s what Minnesota has done. The Twins traded Johan Santana when they could still get something for the high-value pitcher. And Minnesota is right on the heels of Griffey’s new team, the Chicago White Sox, in the AL Central.”
Needless to say, in the blog comments I gave him a little more about the “trade at his peak” situation that he likely didn’t know about, being as he doesn’t focus on the AL and the Twins like I do.
I really wish that Smith had made a trade; that kind of signal would have provided more impetus for the team, I think, than just bringing up Liriano (which was going to happen anyway). Since I’m not quite the baseball junkie that many of you commenters are, I don’t have a particular choice. Just….some one would have been nice.
Well not to mention I would have paid nicely for tickets that I wouldn’t want to lose due to my ejection from the stands via security.
There is another deadline.
This month will be waiver month, which, given the salaries that a lot of those placed on waivers make could yield a short-term rental.
I’d be shocked if Grudz, Beltre and other big name/big salary players aren’t placed on waivers.
Maybe after the debacle by the interim GM in Seattle they’ll be more reasonable in their demands.
There surely can be more additions/subtractions this month.
Lamb is without a doubt one of the best, and highest paid, bullpen catchers.
But seriously, last night was as good of a victory as any. I thought Morneau was going to spear Kubel when he crossed the plate on the 3R HR. To make it even better Young’s reaction to Kubel’s celebratory push was classic as well.
No, I think I got it at Lids or something. It’s the same gray color at their away jerseys, I’ve never seen one like it before it’s pretty sweet.
I personally think the “TC” Logo is one of the sweetest logos for MLB hats. Much better than our old “M” logo.
I just hope that when Livan goes, so goes the sleeveless uniform. That’s half the reason we look so terrible in games he starts. And here I thought we’d seen the last of it when Silva left.
Anyone else think Gardenhire really made a fool of himself last night?
I realize media and the players will say that his ejection “fired the team up.” I personally think the fans got the team fired up. After that total BS call I think they were to the point where they thought there was no way they could lose after that one.
All those hats and balls on the field were a direct result of Gardy making an idiot of himself.
Here’s a link to mlb.com for those who have questions about the waiver period this month
Hey if Gardy has to make an ‘idiot’ of himself and it fires up the team and crowd then I say “Keep punting that hat!!”
Morneau,
Ozzie made a bigger fool of himself. He extended the delay by pulling his team off the field — and I don’t think that helped Danks or Thornton. And jawing at a fan is just dumb.
Usually, I cringe when Gardy pitches a fit. But that was a terrible call and the same ump had a horrible strike zone the previous night. Lotta pent-up frustration there.
It’s one thing to fire the team up, it’s another to act like a little kid. I’m 23 years old and I know this is gonna make me sound really old, but how could a dad with his kids at the game last night explain that one? I know a lot of people like his tirades but I also know a lot of people who thinks he just looks like an idiot.
Agreed that it was a terrible call. I have no problem with Gardy arguing. But while he didn’t realize it before he did it, kicking that hat prompted all the fans to get rid of theirs too.
I don’t blame Ozzie one bit for protecting his players. Dick and Bert said the same thing. Who knows what’s gonna happen out there. I know this isn’t NY where fans make death threats in the outfield, but you never know.
I would tell my kids - “this man has trouble controlling his emotions and is being naughty!!”
Unfortunately, it made our fans look bad nationally though. Look at the espn.com headline “Fans get ugly…” which sucks cuz if you’ve ever been to games in Boston, New York, Chicago, you see what truly ugly fan behavior is.
BTW - what was Souhan smoking last night? I actually am not opposed to trading Liriano, but couldn’t you do better than Beltre?
Yeah Paul it is sorta sad. You could tell by the tone of Bert’s voice too that he was disappointed with the fans.
I did notice some fans go on ESPN.com and comment on it. One guy was from Kansas City, and he said something like “come on MN fans, I’ve talked to a bunch of you at KC games and really had a good time, you’re better than that!”
Nice to hear someone out of state praise the fanbase.
What Souhan wrote makes perfect sense from a player standpoint. Liriano would have brought some great players to the Twins. More than any other of our current starting pitchers. Whether or not people want Liriano to stay or go it doesn’t really matter. Souhan’s point made perfect sense.
Whoa it just got worst!!
Yahoo.com’s front page:
“Twins fans so unruly that Sox flee the field.”
Now that’s bad. Usually Yahoo’s front page is reserved for weird science new, Paris and Britney, and economy news.
I am really disappointed with what happened last night and make no excuses, but it’s not like they were throwing tire irons.
My dad took me to games managed by Billy Martin.
So far, it hasn’t turned me in to a raving lunatic.
Tho, the more time I spend around these blogs…
“I am really disappointed with what happened last night and make no excuses, but it’s not like they were throwing tire irons.”
As I mentioned elsewhere last night… probably a good thing tonight’s Jack Morris Bronze Statue promotion wasn’t last night instead.
The danger, when any manager or head coach incites a crowd, is that every crowd contains a few borderline psychopaths.
I don’t think that I need to spell out the possible consequences.
Anyone hear about Ozzie’s pi$$ed off comment after the game, when asked about the addition of Griffey:
“I don’t care about Griffey. Can he pitch?”
Sounds a little bitter about his pitching staff.
Plunkton,
Souhan’s idea of trading Liriano for Beltre does make some sense. Needlessly bagging on him after the fact does not.
“probably a good thing tonight’s Jack Morris Bronze Statue promotion wasn’t last night instead.”
Good thing they shot down “lawn dart night.”
I also suspect the whole throwing caps on the field thing was all a misunderstanding. Clearly, fans simply were under the impression that Saturday’s “DQ Twins cap promotion” required them to turn in their old caps 48 hours ahead of time in order to be eligible for a new one tomorrow night… and were taking advantage of a break in the action while Gardy asked the 3B umpire for an explanation of the Span call.
Misunderstandings happen.
I sure hope Punto learns how to lay down a sac bunt in the next month or so.
Not going to happen. He never learned the basics and he never will. That’s why I’m apprehensive about losing Casilla. He could do the little things that need to be done out of tehe 2 hole. Punto can’t. And it sure likes bad in the bottom of the order with Everett. He’s got weak dribblers down to a science.
… probably a good thing tonight’s Jack Morris Bronze Statue promotion wasn’t last night instead.
…and here come the pretzels. (obligatory Simpsons reference)
I have no opinion either way on Souhan’s point about trading Liriano. However, one thing that stands out to me is the amount of disparate info that floats about the internet and traditional media about him.
One report says he hit 97, one says he topped at 92. One observer says he has his old slider back, another says he doesn’t. One report says he’s changed his mechanics another says he went back to his old ones. One says he averages 91, another says 94. Who to believe?
I think we need to get him here, see what he actually has and go from there. It will be obvious that he is or isn’t the old Franchise. I don’t expect him to be but that doesn’t mean with another year of arm strengthening and sharpening his pitches that he can’t be. If he’s 75% of his old self but healthy…that’s pretty dang good in my book, especially if he holds out the possibility of improving with time and Anderson in his ear.
Souhan’s point seems to be that if you are going to maximize his value you should trade him now while visions of old Francisco dance in everyone’s head. That may be true but only if he isn’t the old Francisco. If he is the old Frankie then his value will be higher as the league sees what he can do.
It’s really a moot point because there was no way in hell, barring being offered Hanley Ramirez and three of his clones that the Twins were going to trade him.
It really is time to see where he is in his recovery from the surgery that approaches its two year anniversary. It’s time.
I’m going to the game tonight…any chance the Twins come out flat after the emotional ride of the White Sox series?
I personally think the fans got the team fired up.
And Gardy got the fans fired up.
The hats were fine…they’re hats. Hats go on the field in hockey. No big. They throw SQUID in hockey.
The baseballs are where things could be troublesome…but I only heard of ONE ball on the field.
Ozzie had the right to pull his players…but the way he did it was drama-queen style.
I saw a start of Liriano’s on a Red Wings Squeeze Play on FSN recently and his slider looked very close to his 2006 form. Maybe not quite 100% there but definitely 90-95%. Fastball was in the low-mid 90’s. He looked very good.
Returning to the OF discussion when Cuddyer comes back.
Seems to me you’ve got 5 guys for four positions (3 OF spots and DH). So even if you had a strict rotation, each of the 5 guys would play 4 out of every 5 games. That’s not so terrible for anyone, is it?
Not saying you have a strict rotation situation, but if it turnss out that all five of those guys sits out just over once a week, on average, I think you get solid contributions from everyone and they all stay fresh. If one of them slumps bad, he gets less time in the lineup. If one goes on a major tear, he doesn’t sit as much as others might.
Span, as your lead off hitter, probably gets more time than, say, Kubel. But having Cuddyer or Young DH against LHPs isn’t such a terrible option, is it?
Clearly, fans simply were under the impression that Saturday’s “DQ Twins cap promotion” required them to turn in their old caps 48 hours ahead of time in order to be eligible for a new one tomorrow night…
Have any of the gamblers out there figured out the odds of that promotion being canned due to last night’s events?
Would seem to follow in traditional MLB overreaction fashion.
I mean, you can’t even get a bottle with a lid on it anymore after that whole Knoblauch…thing.
against a weakly team.. oh yes…
“The baseballs are where things could be troublesome…but I only heard of ONE ball on the field.
Ozzie had the right to pull his players…but the way he did it was drama-queen style.”
I’m pretty sure I saw someone pick up a nerf-like football off the field. The things people take to ballgames makes me wonder, some times.
I think when Ozzie fills out his line-up card, he does it drama-queen style. He is what he is. I do think he overplayed his hand last night. He was probably trying to light a fire under HIS guys and it backfired.
so if Morneau does not win MVP how long do I have to wait before the (Mn screwed again!!” illogical whiners come out to crow
T, cancelling tomorrow’s cap promotion would be unfortunate. Just think of how many Twins fans find themselves today with a need for a new cap!
Fire Vavra guy….A slider is a slider no matter what team it is being thrown to. If a pitcher has ‘good stuff’ or ‘bad stuff’ it makes no difference as to what team he is pitching to.
Jim:
I’m not the manager so anything I say is, essentially, just so much sausage. I think that if it were me I’d reduce the issue to 4 players for 3 positions. In my mind Kubel is the everyday DH, unless an elite nasty lefty is on the mound.
If you look at it that way, it seems to me that Span is best suited to be the player that rotates through the three spots. I just don’t want him to sit that often. I like what he brings to the leadoff position, especially with Casilla out.
I’d be ok with Gomez being the rover but my ultimate goal is to make sure Span’s skill set, at least until/if he cools off, is not the one that gets shorted.
I guess what I’m saying is I want Span to get proportionally more AB’s than the other three if there is some sort of rotation.
It can work, though.
“so if Morneau does not win MVP how long do I have to wait before the (Mn screwed again!!” illogical whiners come out to crow”
Do you just love sitting at your computer and trying to start something?
Twins rubes are so predictable…
“Twins rubes are so predictable…”
What makes you such a genious and better than everyone else?
I have read nothing but “MN inferiority complex” in play since HR Derby night! Morneau is getting slighted, Hamilton is PUNTO compared to him, ESPN doesn’t like the Twins..blah blah
this spewing goes against reality ESPN MLB guys ahev just recently wrote glowing columns on Twins (AGAIN!) and let’s look at stats Carlos Quentin for Whites he has comparble numbers 28 HRS 83 RBI .282 Morneau .320 18HR 86 RBI and Quentin plays a more valuable position
Willie, as I think I indicated, by virtue of him being your lead off hitter, I agree Span should be sitting out less frequently than the others. And you’re right about him probably being the guy who “rotates” through the OF positions. It’s hard for me to see Young, Gomez or Cuddyer shifting to other positions in the OF at this point in the season being a good idea. But even Span could use a day off occasionally and once a week or so, it wouldn’t totally cause the world to collapse if Gomez has to be used to lead off.
As to our other difference, I’m obviously not in the “Kubel should DH every day” camp… not once Cuddyer is healthy. At that time, you’ve got Young and Cuddyer as legitimate RH hitting options to use as a DH against lefties.
Kubel over Monroe vs LHPs? Yes, a good case can be made for that. Kubel over Cuddyer/Young?… I’m not there.
Actually, based on their mediocre finish last year, the Twins get to pick pretty high on the waiver wire totem pole, which might help them pick a player here and there in August.
There is another sizeable problem that has not really been mentioned much: The 40 man roster is an absolute mess, including players who will not see the light of a day in the majors this season (Julio DePaula, Jose Mijares, Oswaldo Sosa, Philip Humber, Jose Morales, Sergio Santos) and lacks players like Randy Ruiz, Mariano Gomez, Kevin Mulvey who can help the team come September
it doesn’t take a genius to read 50 “MN gets screwed” comments to predict what will happen you must not have read the blogs during ASB week it was high comedy.. Morneau is the Twin’s best player no doubt and I would not trade him for MANRAM but he is not AL MVP this year
Yeah, Morneau’s stats are pretty similiar to Quentin’s……
……except for batting nearly 40 points higher. Morneau is the better hitter.
“but he is not AL MVP this year”
Ok then, let me know when MLB calls you for your expert opinion and you place your vote.
The MVP vote really should probably go to Alex Rodriguez at this point…
I think there are probably a few more deserving, and A-Rod is a great pick.
it’s o.k. to disagree with someone’s opinion just let me know when 25HR 104 RBI .306 average playing CENTER FIELD is worse then Morneau’s numbers at 1st base..btw you are already making my point about “Morneau got screwed for MVP” whining and it took less then 30 minutes
thry: I thought waiver wire was based on current standings.
thrylos98,
Adjustments to the 40-man-roster are routine.
Garbage gets outrighted to Rochester or New Britain and any necessary additions can be made as quickly as a Fax message can travel.
Its not a problem.
and how am i making my point oh great one?
Jim:
That’s probably a difference that we can’t reconcile. I think Kubel has the second best swing on the team, has upside that hasn’t been reached yet and therefore should be allowed to hit non-elite lefties. I would prefer him over Cuddyer and Young in those instances. Now, vs. a topline lefty I’d take Young…he seems to make more contact than Cuddyer.
Unlike many, I have a low opinion of Cuddyer’s mechanics and if he has any potential for improvement. I think he’s more of a one season wonder at the plate and has seen his best season there.
As you suggest, though, there really isn’t any downside to a rotation and I hope the staff is smart enough to not let any of those 5 get stagnant. Naturally, all of this is predicated on the notion that Cuddyer gets healthy, finds his swing and doesn’t reinjure himself. This all could take care of itself.
Twins rubes are so predictable…
Says the guy who’s username is the same tired mantra from 2006…
Hey FIRE, the only thing worse than whining is whining about whining.
who goes bye bye to make room for Cuddy?
Why argue about who the AL MVP is right now? Two years ago, if you’d said Morneau was going to be the MVP on August 1st, I’d have said that was a nice thought, but you were out of your mind if you didn’t think it’d go to Jermaine Dye. By September 1st, and eventually October 1st, I was singing a much different tune. Morneau deserved it then, and right now, he can be considered a contender for it along with Quentin and Hamilton. That’s enough for me for right now.
And for those who are disappointed about no trade being made… here’s an article that brings up the fact that help could still be on the way…
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/royals/story/728663.html
“The Royals remain willing to trade Grudzielanek, who will be a free agent after the season. Unless the club offers arbitration on his $4.5 million salary, which seems unlikely, it will receive no compensatory draft picks if he signs elsewhere.”
I’m all for signing Grudzielanek and putting him in the two-hole. He’d be a cheap pickup, and he’s a patient, consistent .300 winner, former Gold Glove winner (as recently as 2006). The article also says he wants to play for a contender - I’ve got to imagine he’d be thrilled to be here. Apologies to Adam Everett for stringing him along and bringing him back for a bit, but he can be excused for Grudzy.
“who goes bye bye to make room for Cuddy?”
Go-go Monroe will go-go bye-bye.
no one goes Bye Bye for Cuddyer… h’ll probably take until september to get ready.
.300 hitter*, not winner… not sure what happened there…
Steve,
“I’m all for signing Grudzielanek and putting him in the two-hole. He’d be a cheap pickup, and he’s a patient, consistent .300 winner, former Gold Glove winner (as recently as 2006).”
I think I heard yesterday that he has the best BA against LHP’s in the AL.
I haven’t checked that out, but if true, he would be a GGRRRRRRREATT pickup for the Twins.
Steve:
That is a move that would placate me. I wonder if there is enough uncertainty with Casilla’s hand to make them hesitate to move on Grudz or a like solution. If they believe that he can come back does that negate the need to make such a move? Whatever the case, I want Everett chewing pine on the bench and Punto batting 8/9 and playing short.
Does anyone know if there is a formal “waiver submission time” or is it random and teams submit at their whim anytime after 3 yesterday?
IOW, when do teams submit the list?
Alright FIRE GARDY I’m going to say this since you’re obviously good at starting something but not finishing it.
You picked a fight based on my screen name. MY SCREEN NAME!! I chose my screen name because I really like Morneau and would like to see him rewarded for his solid play again. If he doesn’t get it and somebody like A-Rod does, fine, I realize Morneau isn’t probably #1 right now.
I’ve been posting all morning about random Twins issues, not saying a thing about the MVP issue, nothing about the so-called Twins inferiority complex.
Then you come in with your genious mind like you’re better than everyone and make a rebuttal to an argument that was never even started!
And even if Twins fans to think they get slighted, get over it! Are you undercover for ESPN? It’s an opinion that lots of people share, just like who should move out of the rotation, who should start CF, etc. If you don’t like it, get over it, cause not everything you say on here makes sense either!
I that when you sit in your little chair at your little computer screen, you think to yourself that people respect your posts and opinions and no one else’s opinions are as legit as yours. So if you can’t get over yourself, keep talking smack on a computer if that’s what gets you off.
Grudz’s line against LHP:
.395/.459/.523
Haha, wow, I didn’t even realize that, Sane. That’s phenomenal… a .982 OPS against them. Wow. Now I’m DEFINITELY in the Grudz camp.
I assume he’ll clear waivers. The only teams that should be interested in him are contending teams that need help at 2B, which there aren’t any of, I don’t believe
Rays- Iwamura
Red Sox- Pedroia
Yanks- Cano
White Sox- Ramirez
Angels- Kendrick
If any NL team (perhaps the Cards or Mets) tries to claim him, and so do we, the rule states that the team with the worst record in the player’s league gets the rights, so the Twins would take precedence.
I can’t see a non-contender wanting a 38-year-old second baseman who’s a free-agent-to-be come season’s end.
Bring on the Grudz!
Willie,
Teams can place players on waivers at any point, I believe. The only rule is they can only place seven players on waivers per day.
Thanks!
Morneau MVP: FIRE continues to ignore the fact that complaints were being made regarding ESPN’s coverage before the players took the field, and before Hamilton’s display.
ESPN’s converage sucked from front to back. It wouldn’t have mattered who won it…the coverage was terrible.
Unless you think some moron shouting: “It’s a bad night for atheists!” and making all kinds of fun racially charged comments during a Derby is good coverage.
Yeah I know. I just thought I’d point out how he talked all tough and now he’s nowhere to be found.
Steve: Teams may try to claim a guy to block. Though I dunno if they can do that too many times without the other team being able to call the bluff.
I know you’re allowed to pull a guy off waivers ONCE if somebody claims him. The second time somebody claims him you have to deal.
Morneau 2008 MVP guy…..I think he just decided that life is too short to have these meaningless debates with you.
Teams may try to claim a guy to block
yeap and they can get stuck with him, if the waving team lets them have him. Case in point: Canseco with the Yankees who claimed him to block Boston.
When reports about Grudz first came out, I wasn’t exactly thrilled. Given his lights out hitting vs LHP, I’m now kinda pissed we didn’t make a move at the deadline. If KC is willing to make the trade in August, find a prospect or two they’d take in July and make it happen now. If Casilla does come back, see if he can handle SS - it was his natural position after all.
Twins should have sent Livan,Lamb,Everett,Monroe through waivers at 3:01 PM CST yesterday
thrylos98,
“they can get stuck with him”
I believe that if they don’t REALLY want him, they can just waive him.
So they aren’t really “stuck” with him.
However, if nobody claims him, they ARE “stuck” with his salary.
Yeah, but I don’t know if the Sox would claim him just to block him. It’s a possibility I suppose.
However, if they claim him a second time, then they’re stuck with his salary and no place to put him, since they’re not moving Cabrera from SS or Ramirez from 2B.
I don’t think that’s something Chicago wants. But who knows? All speculation at this point till something happens, right?
FIRE,
“Twins should have sent Livan,Lamb,Everett,Monroe through waivers at 3:01 PM CST yesterday”
Why?
If unclaimed, we lose them all to FA and still must pay their salaries.
Oh!, I guess that’s what you wanted, but that’s very expensive for Lamb.
Steve,
I believe that as long as we trail the Sox in the standings, they can’t block us.
I believe that as long as we trail the Sox in the standings, they can’t block us.
Well, then KC had better hurry up with Grudzy… 
Why?
If unclaimed, we lose them all to FA and still must pay their salaries.
nope. If unclaimed, the Twins are free to trade them to any team. Putting someone through waivers is not like DFAing them. During this month 50%+ of the MLB players will put through waivers.
the waiver priority is based on last year’s standings so the Sox can block the Twins because they finished behind them. Sox, Oakland, Texas, KC, Baltimore, Rays all have priority over the Twins
Yep - exactly thrylos. The July 31st deadline is the “non-waiver deadline” - meaning all players must now clear waivers if they are to be traded.
It’s why Bill Smith was quoted as saying “We’ll be watching the waiver wire very closely over every day” - or something similar.
OK, I get it!
The purpose of waiving Lamb, Everett, Livan and Monroe was to trade them. In that case, they WERE probably waived at 3:01 PM yesterday.
That was the easy part.
Now, try to trade them.
Good luck with that!
Yeah the Rays could really hit the jackpot on waivers this year.
Thrylos - you seem to have a really good beat on the waiver system. My understanding (and this may have been confirmed loosely above) is that a team can place a player on waivers. If that player is claimed, they can pull the player back and keep him. If they place him a second time, and a team claims him, that team gets him. Yes? No?
That is correct scooter.
I was under the assumption it was based on last years standings as far as waiver wire priority is concerned.
Sane, we can put a player through waivers and “pull him back” if we don’t like the results. Red Sox did it with Manny a year or two ago. But the FO needs to smart about when they expose players. They can only be exposed and pulled back once. So if there are no suiters now, and something happens that makes Lamb more attractive to a team, then we are SOL.
Ooops sorry. Should have refreshed the page, read posts before adding my own.
JP,
not exactly re: Lamb. If he clears waivers once, the Twins are free to trade him to any team in the majors for a player who passed waivers or a player to be named later (usually a minor league or 2 at the post season). If someone passes through waivers, more power for the team.
I guess I should clarify.
My understanding is that if Lamb was claimed we could pull him back if a trade couldn’t be worked out or if we didn’t want him to be claimed by that team, we can pull him back. But only once.
Yes if he did clear waivers, I did understand that he could be traded to anyone.
“A waiver, which is a permission granted for certain assignments of player contracts, can get complicated if more than one team makes a waiver claim. If more than one club in the same league makes a claim, then the club currently lower in the standings gets the player. If clubs in both leagues claim the player, preference goes to the club in the same league as the club requesting waivers.”
The priority is not based on last year’s standings, it is based on this year.
Thanks Pete.
Thanks thrylos.
Good stuff.
Twins rubes are so predictable…
Speak for yourself. Your opinions never waiver regardless of the facts. Must be nice to live in your own world where certainty is a matter of closing your eyes and making it so.
PeteD,
I stand corrected… the last year’s standings priority count only until May.
Well then that’s good news for the twins. The Yanks have a worse record than we do, but other than them we’d have first crack of any “contending” team - unless you count the Tigers of course. But with Polanco entrenched at 2b (boy he’d have been a nice pickup from the phillies a few years ago), I gotta believe we’d have a shot at grudzielanek (wow did I butcher that name before googling it)
Grudzielanek is such an obvious fit that I’m really surprised a deal wasn’t made before the deadline. I know its an intra-divisional deal and the Twins don’t want to give the Royals guys that could end up beating the Twins later, but I have to believe a deal could be reached. Maybe the Casilla injury was late enough that there just wasn’t time to focus on a deal.
Also wouldn’t rule out the Twins going ahead and offering him arbitration at the end of the year. If he accepts, he could play a key role in ‘09 while Casilla moves to SS. If he rejects it to become a FA, I have to figure he’d be high enough on the FA list that the Twins would get compensation picks.
hey FIRE…since when does Quentin play center field? Swisher, Anderson, Wise, and now Griffey are the sox CFs this year…left field is not any more valuable than first base
Here is a true test for this front office:
Felipe Lopez was cut today by the Nationals. If they even have ‘internal discussions’ about him or coming close to touching him with a 100-foot pole, they fail.
If people are going to throw things on the field, they need to bring 9 volt batteries, or C batteries. They are heavy, but not too heavy. They will carry a long way, and they will hurt like H3LL if they hit someone. I wouldn’t mind seeing Quentin take a 9 volt to the finger and putting him out for the next 6 weeks. It’s stupid to throw things on the field unless you can accomplish something with it.
JP,
If anybody claimed Lamb that we would pull him back. We would be rid of the remainder of his $6M contract.
hahaha if that was satire Jake, a funny post.
It’s stupid to throw things on the field unless you can accomplish something with it.
Hahahahahahaha.
You must have been in LF when Knobby came back, eh?
My bet is, you throw the battery and miss Quentin. The battery settles down in the field turf and the security staff misses it. Next inning, on a ball to the gap, Gomez & Young converge - DY steps on the battery, shatters his ankle, and on his take-off and subsequent landing, takes out Go-go with a career-ending knee injury.
Lol, scooter, I have a solution to that problem as well. You paint the batteries white so they will be visible while laying on the field. PLUS, they give you an advantage when throwing them because if you get enough air under them the opposing players will lose them in the dome roof, hence making them harder to dodge.
will 95 wins be enough to take the division? Looking at the remaining schedule, here would be a stars-come-into-alignment scenario: 24 home games remain - 17-7; 30 away games remain - 18-12 (gets us to a tidy 41-40 road record). Aug/Sep finish: 35-19 for an overall record of 95-69. I think they can do it and I also think that takes the division, hands down.
So do you then release them shotgun style - throw 10, 12 batteries at once up into the sky, to increase your chances of a (or even multiple) direct hits?
You should talk to TC - see if you can borrow the T-Shirt-shooter.
Yes 95 wins will definitely get the division. The White Sox are on pace for 91 wins, we’re on pace for 90. I bet 92 wins the division outright. So we only would have to go 32-22, much more likely than going on a torrid stretch where we win 65%, including 30 road games. Especially if we can take 3 from the sox in our last meeting with them. To ask us to go 18-12 on the road is probably a bit much.. yes, if you take out the horrible sweeps at chi/bos/nyy (where we don’t play again), we’re 23-18, but my hope is for 16-14, 15-15. With that 17-7 home record finish, which I think is possible, that would get us 32 or 33 wins, leaving us with 92 or 93.
JimCrikket,
“Grudzielanek is such an obvious fit that I’m really surprised a deal wasn’t made before the deadline.”
His stats against LHP’s are so ourageously good that he would be more valuable to the Twins than Junior, Pudge, or Nady.
How good would it be to bat a .395 BA (vs LHP’s) behind Morneau?
How about Grudz-Punto at 2B, Casilla at SS and Buscher-Harris at 3B?
At little optimistic on the 18-12 road record? It will be a big improvement if they play .500 on the road. So lets say a 15-15 record getting us to 92 wins. I say thats doable and still gives a shot to win the division. I do agree that 95 wins takes the division.
Sorry sane - but even with a .395 BA behind Morneau, I don’t think teams are going to fear Grudzielanek enough to pitch to Morneau.
I like the shotgun style! I think TC is too upstanding to let us use the T-Shirt shooter, but I like where your head is at. If I can secretly “aquire” it from him, I could really take it to them. Oh, and if TC Bear is found tied up in a bear trap in the tunnels under the stands (with or without the T-Shirt shooter), it was NOT me! Go Twins!
Unless your name is Eric Wedge, and you have a LHP who is statistically worse against LH batters than our own Dennys Reyes. In that case, you call your LHP “one of the best lefty-on-lefty pitchers in the game” and throw Morneausy a juicy pitch on 3-1 that he drives into the gap to take a lead 3-2 in the 9th inning.
Then, I guess, you pitch to Morneau.
Although Jake - if you were to have the t-shirt shooter, you could dispense with the “oohh they might lose it in the roof!” argument. At that point, it’s pretty much just “Point….Shoot….Die”
scooter,
“even with a .395 BA behind Morneau, I don’t think teams are going to fear Grudzielanek enough to pitch to Morneau.”
I hope they walk Morneau and pitch to our .395 hitter!
But we don’t have a .395 hitter…
I agree that the 18-12 on the road is pretty optimistic, especially since we have 12 games against LAA, OAK, and TB.
We’d be fortunate to win 3-4 of those.
Of the other 18 against SEA (6), KC (3), TOR (3), BAL (3) and CLE (3) we should win around 12.
I see 15-15 on the road the rest of the way is reasonable.
If we average 2 of 3 at home the rest of the way out and half on the road we will finish with 91 wins.
jake,
“But we don’t have a .395 hitter…”
But if we had Grudz (.395 BA vs LHP’s)….
One of the Sox blogs (thats a caveat to indicate that if this is wrong, it’s not my fault) reported Morneau’s stats from this series as:
.357/.471/.929 for a 1.400 OPS, including 8 RBI with 2 out.
He keeps putting up numbers like that, nobody will pitch to him, no matter who hits behind him. Better back off a bit Doc… or get used to seeing those 4 straight balls lobbed 10 ft outside.
I think if Grudzielanek is brought in, he’ll bat second and Punto will drop to eighth. I don’t like the idea of Grudz batting behind Morneau…
Span
Grudzielanek
Mauer
Morneau
Young
Kubel
Harris
Punto
Gomez
Looks good enough against LHP to me, though I’d still prefer Harris at SS and a better option at 3B… come save us, Luke Hughes.
As long as we’re praising Morneau… don’t know how many saw this quote:
White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, on the Twins’ Justin Morneau, in the Chicago Sun-Times: “They have, to me, the best hitter in baseball, and nobody says anything about this kid. If this kid was playing for New York, Boston, Chicago, the Cubs, anybody else, this kid would be the king, he’d own baseball. But he plays for the Minnesota Twins.”
Hard to completely despise Ozzie sometimes, I suppose…
Steve,
My lineup has Casilla batting 2nd at SS.
And Punto high-fiving Grudz who is playing 2B and batting fifth (.395).
Span LF
Casilla SS
Mauer C
Morneau 1B
Grudzielanek 2B (.395 vs LHP)
Kubel DH
Young RF
Harris 3B
Gomez CF
Well, I’m assuming Casilla isn’t going to be available for awhile is all, Sane. Once he’s back, that’s fine with me, but only against LHP.
Against RHP, Grudz can bat seventh perhaps.
I feel like there’s one missing step in all of this, though…
Oh, right.
TRADE FOR GRUDZIELANEK, BILL SMITH!
joe just posted liriano and ruiz are on their way!
Watching the replay on FSN….
Wow, Kubel almost had 5 more RBIs (the flyout to the wall, the smash over 1st in the 9th), and Everett just missed 2 RBIs in the 9th while making the last out.
Span had an 0-fer but scored 3 runs. Look like a leadoff hitter to you?
Young, more or less unprotected this year, is now reliable with his .293 average. Imagine the good pitches he could get to turn on for HRs if given a different spot in the order.
Robertson, Manship, and Buscher for Beltre…..NOW!! This team could then compete all the way with the Angels et al.
Span
Mauer
Young
MVP
Beltre
Kubel
Harris
Punto
Gomez
When Casilla is back, he hits 2nd (everyone moves down) and Harris is gone.
Yes, in this latter lineup Morneau would bat 5th. But all hitters in front of him would be .300 hitters. An even better opportunity for him for RBIs in his MVP quest.
And, I’d rather have Gomez/Punto 8th/9th. But Go-Go is still a work in progress and needs the protection of Span. But 8th later in the season. I like his RBI bat.
I’ve been posting a lot lately to warn that we need another 3-run HR-hitter, which is a metaphor warning that we can’t rely on back-to-back-to-back-to-back rallies as much anymore as the season gets long and the players tire a bit. Kubel and Morneau are the real deal, but we need another smasher or we’ll never get to post-seasoon, this year or next.
Trading some good pitchers for Beltre could leave the Twins a little thin in the pitching department. But 2-way minor league deals using Revere, etc. could get decent long-term minor league prospects to the mound in the minors.
This team won’t live or die on the 3-run HR, but they can live a little more if the threat for such is just a little more.
romer,
I will do your Seattle trade. The clueless M’s though… Not so likely.
romer,
“Young, more or less unprotected this year, is now reliable with his .293 average. Imagine the good pitches he could get to turn on for HRs if given a different spot in the order.”
Sorry for repeating myself, but:
Young can’t be protected until he protects himself. Pitchers will never throw strikes to a batter who swings at balls, no matter who is on deck.
Howard, great comments. I agree more than 100% that we don’t need any more “veteran leadership” to kill any chance of making the postseason. If the young ones need advice they can do worst than talk to Slowey about what he did when he’s had his best games this year…CG, really great stuff. Baker has thrown some really great innings also (just not so much last night).
Am I the only one who would like to see our pitcher toss one up and in under AJ’s nose the next time we see him if he is going to play “umpire” again? He is truly a pain in the rear. Of course shame on the homeplate umps also for letting a known pest influence how they call the game.
I refuse to post under Mr. Jim “the Yanks are old” Souhan’s article. The other bloggers are right that he had nothing as deadline loomed, decided to throw a Molotov cocktail over the transom and then bask in the flood of responses. There was one particularly irritating blogger from LA (hope he enjoys watching Manny being Manny) who wanted to be a know it all and couldn’t even spell LIRIANO. The “a” and the “i” are pretty far apart on most keyboards.
Anyway bottom line is only the April version of Liriano could possibly be worse than Livo. Maybe Liriano won’t be the same as ‘06 but can he possibly be worse than Livo? That’s why I continue to lobby for DFA Bass…as bad as the Boofer and Livo are, at least they have experience as starters and Boof can be OK in one inning relief, it’s just that long stuff that doesn’t suit him. Repeat again that Livo would have to start pitching in the pen at the start of the game to be a reliever so that it feels like innings 3-6 when he comes in.
romer,
The boxscore for Span has to be wrong. He was 0-4 last night:
Strikeout
Groundout
Fielder’s Choice
Walk
Reached on Error
Howard, just looked at Tiggers Aug and Sept schedule and it didn’t look THAT easy. The way you were talking I thought maybe they were going to play the Mariners 45 times or something. The way Verlander has been sputtering and Rogers looking more and more like the grisled old veteran he is (rather than the fountain of youth guy of ‘06) I’m much less concerned about the guys in the rear view mirror than the guys that we can’t seem to quite catch and overtake. I’m sure most or all Twins fans were highly irritated with game 3 of the just concluded series with the Chisox. Galarraga is the most effective Tiger pitcher right now except when he faces the Twins. No Bonderman and Robertson not exactly dominating. It’s hard to see how the Tiggers will dig themselves out of their beginning of the season hole. It seems like at best they take a step or two forward and then at least one or two steps back…don’t think there are enough days left for them.
Sweet,
It was 0-for-3 because Span got credit for a sacrifice bunt when he reached on the error.
All,
Joe is following the Liriano news on his blog and in a story on the web site. You can keep up with his stuff in one of those two places.
“The “a” and the “i” are pretty far apart on most keyboards.”
Some of us have kyeboard dyslxeia.
Romer, minor point but the Twins didn’t bat in the ninth last night.
Crikket, we are just going to have to hope that the guys ahead of Doc clog the bases ahead of him so that they have to think twice about IBB him. There also seems to be some managerial style differences when it comes to IBB. Leyland is apparently of the school “let’s go after the next guy.” Ozzie maybe not so much. Even Barry Bonds wasn’t always walked.
WJ, we must have lots of dyslexics on these blogs. LA guy is not the only one who doesn’t have correct spelling for Franchise.
“Pitchers will never throw strikes to a batter who swings at balls,…”
sane — I know, I know. But he’s still got the good BA. And I have a hunch he’ll lay off the outside crap because he’ll see less of it. (They’ll HAVE to pitch to him!) Then he can swing full-out at the FB’s.
A two-option approach at the plate that isn’t afforded him now cuz he’s unprotected.
You just have to conclude he’s been too anxious all season to try and justify the Garza trade and establish himself as a bona fide .300 hitter, etc., etc.
With Hernandez gone, we have a 4-core with a combined 3.84 ERA and Liriano to boot.
Enough for a post-season run?
HAVE to get an additional big bat in the lineup. And Ruiz doesn’t logistically do it (he’s a DH/1B replacement).
Thanks for the heads-up Howard. Hallelujah, at least we can now all stop griping about where is Franchise!! Hope he does well otherwise all the griping will start all over again but directed at him.
I’ll reserve judgment on Ruiz. He’s much more an example of spending most (all?) his time in the minors so can’t tell how well he’ll hit major league pitching. Surprised Gardy is throwing him into the fire already tonight. Haven’t checked but I seem to remember a comment about Kubel’s numbers against Sowers (not to mention the normal babying vs. lefties) being dismal. Assume that’s why Randy will get a chance right away. Don’t be too disappointed folks if he’s not a smasher right away at this level.
romer,
” have a hunch he’ll lay off the outside crap because he’ll see less of it. (They’ll HAVE to pitch to him!) Then he can swing full-out at the FB’s.”
I am a big Delmon fan and I HOPE you are right. I just think Dr. Young has to begin with self-healing first, before the Twins’ remedies will take effect.
Beisbol, I appreciate the correction.
Beisbol,
“Assume that’s why Randy will get a chance right away”
Also, Ruiz has probably batted against Sowers in the IL. (Buffalo vs Rochester)
“has to begin with self-healing first,…”
He’s on the Vavra learning curve too. A work in progress.
If you want perfection, please forget about those frickin’ 10 years it took Hunter to learn how to lay off the low-outside thing.
I’m just thining putting Young ahead of MVP could be a very wise mini-experiement.
Thanks Sane. Have forgotten that Sowers was sent back down for awhile.
I may be in the vast minority on this one: even though his numbers were dismal, I’m a little sorry they had to DFA Monroe. He did hit a few really big HR’s for us, just not enough and not lately. He seems to be a classy guy also and how can you beat that his Mom’s name really is Marilyn Monroe!
He just is unlucky to join the Twins when we have more good players to protect than when RWhite was here. We hung on to him about 4X longer than we’re giving Craig and he didn’t even hit any meaningful hits. Too bad Vavra or someone couldn’t help Monroe or he couldn’t help himself whatever the case might be because he is one powerful dude when he does connect. I’d hate to see him wind up with another team that straightens him out and he bashes the ball more consistently. Oh well, Detroit, Chicago and Twins couldn’t do it so maybe he’s at the end of his career.
romer,
“I’m just thining putting Young ahead of MVP could be a very wise mini-experiement.”
If Delmon keeps hitting, I think your experiment will be conducted fairly soon. If they don’t bat him 3rd, (because of Mauer) they will bat him 5th.
And if the opponens have already IBB’d Morneau, they won’t want to walk the 5-hole hitter.
Either 3-hole 0r 5-hole, if Delmon is disciplined, he will get fast balls to hit.
Dr. Romer, agree that would be an interesting experiment but could we experiment in Sept. after we have clinched the Div.? I’d hate to waste Mauer, Span, Casilla if back, Punto or anyone else who might be standing on a bag already while Delmon flails away. There’s something about the way he swings that looks like it’s not just about getting good FB to hit. Like most fans I never used to pay attention to the Rays and I keep forgetting to ask if anyone watched him as a Ray and can comment on whether this is the same swing that got him his rookie results? I don’t know if I can say this tactfully but Delmon just doesn’t look as athletic as you would expect a professional athlete to look, especially in the field.
sane,
I think that Delmon was at the 5 spot several games this season already when a LHP was starting…
Romer, glad to see on the other thread that you feel the same way as I do about Monroe.
And sorry, I’m really not nitpicking you today or anything but I also saw your comment about Punto and backing up SS and OF. Don’t we already have 5 OF even without Punto? DY, Go-Go, Span, Cuddyer and Kubel? Punto normally subs only the CF position. I think we got more than enough coverage in OF especially if you do toss in Punto. So he’s probably more a backup for the IF positions.
Howard,
What is the one trade you would make right now? (Assuming that the other team(s) accepts, and the player clears waivers)
Beisbol,
Don’t we already have 5 OF even without Punto? DY, Go-Go, Span, Cuddyer and Kubel?
Cuddyer=DL.
looks like the Twins signed Tom Shearn out of the Red organization and he started tonight in Rochester in Liriano’s spot. Any more info on that?
Shearn went a solid five innings tonight giving up three hits and one run.
He is 30 years old and has a career ERA of 3.60 in the minors. He started six games for the Reds in 2007 and garnered an ERA of 4.96 and a record of 3-0. He averaged just over five innings per start in his major league debut.
Before that year, he was a minor league journeyman. He has been in Triple A since 2002, when he was with the Astros’ organization.
He made one relief appearance last year, going two innings giving up three runs on four hits on September 9th, 2007.
I doubt he will make the Twins, but he has more chance as a reliever than as a starter.
Hope that helped!
The Twins’ schedule this month is too easy. 15 easier games against the Royals, M’s, and Indians.
So with the predictable good record thriving through this month, the Twins could be blinded to the real difficulty of the whole season.
Yes, here is romer again calling for the acquisition of Beltre or the like. Why does this organization in a very tangibly risky way go after old guys but refuse to go after the flashy FA also in a risky fasion? The former hasn’t paid off much for the Twins these last two seasons — if ever.
Try the latter, BS.
BTW, because the Twins decided to start him tomorrow, Liriano will not face the Yankees on the 11th-13th series.
Or the Angels either on the 21st-24th.
Did they do this on purpose?
romer,
That may change when Gardy splits up Perkins and Liriano in his rotation adjustment.
On FOX, Ken Rosenthal just said that Teixeira is “not in the class” of Derek Jeter!
How “New Yuawk” of him to say that!
Cross Grudzeilanek off our wish list. Severely sprained ankle last night. DL today.
yeah, I heard that, too sane. Of course, context is everything. Teixeira said he’s going to be looking for a 10-year contract next season. The only players today with 10 year deals are ARod and Jeter.
I’m not sure I believe anyone is worth a 10 year contract, but if I start listing those who might be, it’s not going to start with Teixeira. Some moron like Hank will probably give it to him, though.
