Been away, so fill me in
Posted on August 17th, 2008 – 10:04 PMBy Howard
Folks, there ain’t much Twins news in Oklahoma. About the only serious Okie-Minny connection here is Adrian Peterson, and Saturday’s FOX game here was Angels-Cleveland. Seeing the Okie Ron Gardenhire manage apparently doesn’t count for much with the local programmers.
Word has leaked to these parts that the Twins swept Seattle, if somewhat awkwardly, and remain tied for first with the White Sox. My question is: What’s the most important thing or two you would relay about the Mariners series to someone who didn’t watch much of it after Carlos Silva got KO’d on Friday?
Thanks for sharing.
133 Responses to "Been away, so fill me in"
Bullpen needs help, soon.
Although I hate to display the “world-is-coming-to-an-end” mentality, the bullpen really does need help.
You have no idea how much I am looking forward to September 1st.
1) Kubel is hot. He destroyed the Mariners.
2) While the bullpen is shaky, Breslow and Reyes have been solid in extended appearances.
Series showed again that the Twins do not have a right handed reliever that they can count on for an out,let alone to close out an inning.( Of course that doesn’t include Nathan).This will be their Achilles heel in the stretch run.Bill Smith needs to be shaken up a bit so he realizes he’s letting a good team down by ignoring this weakness.
Bullpen help. Can’t they at least call up Korecky or something? This whole waiver wire thing just isn’t producing results.
The Buscher/Harris platoon at 3B is the best 3B situation the Twins have had since Corey Koskie.
Kubel: He was like 10-12. Right handers, left handers; didn’t matter. For the first time, I saw the Kubel of August and September last year–using the whole field and squaring up on the ball extremely well. He’s no longer so pull happy. That bodes well for this line-up.
just 5 posts and I dont think you need any more insight from the series!
Bullpen, Bullpen, Bullpen. There’s my 3 cents worth… Bass is wasting a spot out there and needs to go… Korecky should be on the next flight over to MSP.. no question. We can’t put up an 8-0 lead on the Angels and “hold on” for an 11-8 victory.. wont happen.
Morneau seems to be done “slumping” and Randy Ruiz is a nice, very late coming, addition.
Howard:
I hope Ok is as good as Mn is right now….it’s as good as summer weather can get here in the Land of Sky Blue Water! Now, as for the Twins, here’s the news:
1. The Twins are better with Span leading off and playing every game from here on out. What a great surprise. He’s confident, takes great at-bats, and is playing really well OF.
2. If Casilla is close to 100%, they’ll be better when he’s back. They will have better balance and will be a threat to score throughout the game if he plays at the level he was at b4 getting hurt.
3. If Morneau is coming out of his little slump, well, that would be really good news.
4. Bloggers on this site need to gripe about something other than Punto. He had a good game today, so thank God we shouldn’t have to read through countless mindless anti-Punto blogs.
5. Pitching overall is inconsistent, to say the least. Perkins had 8 runs today and lost concentration in the 6th…too familiar a story with him. He has absolutely got to pitch at least 7, preferably 8 innings, when his team gives him that kind of lead. This is not all on the BP.
6. The middle relief corps is imploding. They need some fresh arms for the upcoming road trip. Absolutely have to try someone different. I think they have to make some move…AAA or waiver if possible, but they have to shake it up. They cant expect a .500 road trip if the BP’s giving up baserunners and runs 6th-8th inning at the current rate.
Did I mention the weather is spectacular?
pretty much missed all three games as well. but now it’s past the 3/4 point and they’re actually still in first place (i was among those thinking they’d be lucky to win 75). first place! THAT is all anybody needs to know. (although a little middle relief help wouldn’t exactly hurt.)
1) After giving up a single to Ichiro, Breslow pitched 2 1/3 great innings on Sat…he basically saved the game. It seems Gardy may be forced to increase the workloads of both Reyes and Breslow-the RH BP has just been too unreliable.
2) Offensively, it was fun to see all the varied contributions–Span and Punto got on base a lot, Morneau started to hit the ball with real authority after a bit of a slump, Kubel was great, Everett and Buscher had some key hits at the bottom of the order, etc.
1.) Bullpen is not pretty!
2.) Kubel is on fire!
3.) Wins come in many shapes and sizes. These were not the prettiest of games, but the Twins didn’t let the M’s play spoiler and won all three. In the end, I guess that is what matters!
Welcome back!
[…] Originally published by A Fan’s View […]
As stated above, Kubel was great and the bullpen needs help.
Something I noticed: During the broadcast today the Twins’ record in day games v. night games was shown: Day 21-19, night 49-24. Dick ‘n Bert were discussing this and could not figure out a reason. Mauer typically rests on the day games. I think this shows how important he is to the lineup. I seem to remember hearing Buster Olney on Baseball Tonight stating that Mauer could be in the top 3 for MVP voting (please correct me if I’m wrong about that).
1) This current Twins offense is on pace to be the best Twins’ offense this decade
2) The Twins are on pace to score more than 100 more runs than last year
3) The Twins scored an average of 9 runs in the Mariners series
Vavra is the worst hitting coach in the league and should be fired - wait a minute…the offense has been clicking for some time now. I’ve noticed a more patient approach up and down the lineup, not just from Mauer and Span, and that’s paying dividends.
Starters need to be able to pitch deeper into games, and Bonser and Bass need to pitch for the other team. Guerrier can’t find the corners of the plate, and Joe Nathan can’t pitch 2 innings every night, unfortunately.
Can Michael Phelps pitch the 7th and/or 8th inning?
Twins need to build up the pitchers’ stamina and endurance so they stop hitting the wall at around 80-90 pitches, resulting in an overworked pen. Don’t know how this is done other than by letting them pitch past 100, to 115 or 120, when they are going well in a game, regardless of which inning they are in. How else do they get to the point of being able to throw 100 and not be tired?
You’re lucky you missed this one Howard. Uuuuuugly. RA Dickey threw five wild pitches in the fifth inning on Sunday.
Jason Kubel is smoking hot, Mauer is hot too. Liriano looked nice again. The pitching overall though will need to be a lot better against teams not the worst in the AL.
Other than that, forget about this one, take the wins, and move on.
We need a right-hander in the BP, that much is obvious. How about this: Move Slowey to the BP (remember he had 18 straight games of shoutout first innings–possible indication he could be quite effective in relief); if they can’t find a decent starter on the waiver wire, bring up Humber to take Slowey’s spot in the rotation. He seems to have turned it around at Rochester.
1) Once Casilla’s healthy, Buscher/Harris/Casilla/Morneau is probably the best offensive infield this team has had in a while.
2) Adam Everett apparently used his near DFAtion as motivation to stop sucking. (Though I’m still nervous when he throws to first in a tight situation.
3) Span has taken advantage of the opportunity left open by Cuddyer’s injury. Though I can’t expect him to always be as awesome as he has been, hopefully he doesn’t see the same kind of drop off that other classic “out of nowheres” have for the Twins (Ford, Punto to name a few)
4) Bullpen. What more can I say. But watching this series, I don’t think one arm is going to do it. It was 10-4 at one point I think. When you can’t even get a mop job done right, that’s a sign of problems.
5) Starters durability. Both Baker and Perkins hit a brick wall in the 6th inning of their respective starts. I thought Baker has had a full season’s worth of starts before, but Perkins is likely feeling a bit of a wear.
6) Offense. No problems here. Young/Kubel are picking up while Morneau has struggled in August. And Kubel was absolutely a man posessed this weekend. Even in a few of their losses of late they’ve shown an ability to “not quit” even after the ‘pen has struggled.
7) Michael Phelps is a swimming robot that must feed on gold to survive. That’s the only explanation I have.
Starting pitching is going to have to stretch it out a bit. I am concerned that they are hitting the wall. Hope not. Matt Gerrier looks like he might be cooked for the season.
I seem to remember hearing Buster Olney on Baseball Tonight stating that Mauer could be in the top 3 for MVP voting (please correct me if I’m wrong about that).
If Olney thinks that…then I hope that he considers Morneau to be in the top 1.
The man STILL hasn’t had a day off this season. He’s DHed a few times, but he’s been in the #4 spot all year.
I think he’s the ONLY player that hasn’t hit in more than one spot through the season.
There there is your team MVP.
I think the Twins are just trying to hang in there until September call-ups before they bring up some other pitchers to help out - this way they don’t have to waive Bass or Boof.
Howard, we swept the M’s, that’s ancient history. The White Sox are awsome. They hit four homers in a row against KC. I thought my Gamecast was stuck. Homer, homer, homer, pitching change, homer. They blasted a bunch more Sunday. With all that home run power they must be walking away from the rest of the division! Oh wait, were tied for first with them. So much for a bunch of home runs.
1) Bullpen before Nathan is BAD.
2) There seems to be a trend that our young pitchers have fallen into. They cruise for 5 innings and then in the 6th. they get lit up.
The much hated Punto had his best series of the season.
He is pretty darn good defensively. (Now I put on my flak jacket for all the bullets that will fly against me for giving Punto a compliment)
That is what I took from the Seattle series.
One big difference, Mudcat - the Sox bullpen isn’t giving up runs like the Twins bullpen is.
We discovered that somewhere in the Dominican Republic, or Haiti, or somewhere — one of our Twins personnel picked up a magic charm that actually works! How else can you explain it?
Thanks, all. Nice recaps to go with breakfast. Keep ‘em coming.
“There there is your team MVP.”
I think that there could be an argument made for Mauer. Mauer plays a much more demanding defensive position and is still hitting lights out. I think Mauer is less than a point behind Pedroia for the batting title, second in on base percentage in the AL, and is slugging a respectable .451.
Morneau was amazing in July - .360/.473/.708 - and is certainly involved in any discussion for MVP. But Mauer is as well.
Howard, did you hear about the Limestone walls in the new stadium? Rip Rap for Land O’ Lakes field! The Limestone Monster in right and Mount Rushmore behind the dugouts. Morneau and Kubel liners will carom off that thing like pinball machine bumpers. There will be ground rule bank shots. The catcher will back up the right fielder. Gomez and Span will need hard hats and football pads. Cuddyer will last one half inning.
Very good points Pete. But I think in the long run, if I had to choose one or the other I have to give the edge to Morneau.
He’s flat out FEARED in the league now. And I can’t imagine this Twins lineup without him anchoring the cleanup spot.
All other things being equal, Morneau’s got the pop and that gives him the edge. 
Mudcat: that’s truly why it’ll be called “LoL Field”.
And I couldn’t help but think “Dogs and cats living in harmony” at the end of that. Good stuff!
i think bert is right they baby these pitchers to much and need to run them out more innings in the minors. pitching 5-6 innings a start isn’t good. crain and matty g both look shot and bass just sits. seems somebody in the minors has to be better than bass.
typical, punto hits .180 for the month, gets a couple hits now he’s a hero again. dick b’s man crush continues.
I think it is time to think outside of the box.
Send a player down, most likely Ruiz, and bring an extra pitcher up for the road trip. On August 30th, bring Ruiz back up and the pitcher down to set the roster. I feel we should take this gamble for the road trip. This could give some blow to the bullpen a little bit.
Ruiz is playing good and probably would be needed on the playoff roster if we can make it, but for now the bullpen needs to be handled as the most fragile part of the team.
In any case I feel (IMHO) some type of move must be made before the long road trip.
Good one T. That’s why I’m LOL! In case anyone missed it, here’s a photo of right field:
I needed to “Jack” up the A/C a few notches this morning because Kubel is still sooo hot.
Highlights from the weekend:
1. Kubel and Morneau back on track! This was awesome to see and hopefully both of them keep it going down the stretch. (we should qualify this a bit by saying all of the Twins were mashing feeble M’s pitching over the weekend, so there might be a lineup-wide asterik next to these three games; this definitely is true for Friday night’s game, where Carlos got a standing “O” from those of us in the Metrodome crowd upon leaving the game after giving us 4 innings of BP).
2. Bullpen is still scary and management has yet to pull the trigger…why Bobby Korecky is not up here yet is beyond me; why Bass and Boof both continue to occupy a roster spot is more of an amazement than anything Michael Phelps did last week.
3. Three Run Jack returned to singles, but he’s definitely showing that he’ll be there for the balance of the 162!
4. Baker stuck on 7 wins from now to eternity; starters can’t figure out how to get through seven innings.
5. Those of you (including Seth, I believe) who were bragging back in May that the Twins got the better end of the Santana deal exercised some extreme jumping of the gun as Go-go continues to be an expendible part of our lineup and Santana ho-hummed a 3-hit shutout on Sunday.
6. Hey guess what, the White Sox still lead the division, too. They appeared destined to relive the ghosts of Oakland Colesium past with a cough-up on Friday night, but then they proceeded to come up with wins on Sat. and Sunday, doing it with hitting AND pitching.
7. Fransisco Liriano gave us a peek at why he could be a Game 1 starter if this squad makes the playoffs and definitely should be an Opening Day starter in 2009; he was sensational Fri. night…the slider was absolutely nasty.
8. Bullpen
9. Bullpen
10. Bullpen
More on Liriano…it was an amazing outing considering he went 7 innings while sitting through about a 40-minute bottom of the fourth, when the Twins had their fun off Silva’s BP. That old dude who pitched to Josh Hamilton in the homerun derby had better stuff, I think.
Liriano didn’t let that delay keep him from going 7 and he didn’t let a little league-type error by Brian Buscher which lead to the only 2 Mariners runs rattle him. I know it’s only one game, but you have to love what we’re seeing from Franchise and you wonder if they didn’t wait a month or so too late to get him up here….oh well, glad we have him now, I guess!
That White Sox power worries me. When we play the Sox in September, we should do like the Rays did to Texas. They intentionally walked Josh Hamilton with the bases loaded. Four or five intentional walks and our bullpen should be able to stay out of a big inning. (”Big inning” for our bullpens are different than some bullpens.)
A view from the critical Twins fan:
The starters are the bigger issue than the bullpen. Yes, the bullpen is shaky (and nathan cannot pitch more than 1 inning still), but the issue was the starting pitchers’ ability to get thru the lineup the third time through. Other than Liriano, there is not a guy on this roster with a serious out pitch (yes, many of you disagree). This, to me, is the big issue.
The bullpen was bad. There continues to be no excuse for Bass to be up here, and for Korcecky or one of the starters from AAA to be in Rochester.
Kubel continues to show that over a full season he is their third best hitter. Span and Ruiz continue to show that when a player appears to turn it around in AAA, that you should trust results.
Personally, I’ve been harping on the Santana trade from the beginning. But, imagine this team with Santana right now…..The Twins got virtually no help for 2008 from that deal. They look to get little/no help in 2009 either (which starter does Humber of Mulvey displace, exactly?). I remain in the not thrilled camp, and will repeat what I said at the time - “if you don’t get at least on sure fire MLB player, it was a bad trade. Four mediocre prospects is not a good return”.
mike wants wins…
I agree with you on the starters insofar as it appears our rotation has four steady guys and possibly one stud…but everyone appears to have weaknesses. In the past, this wasn’t a problem because our bullpens were always very stable and the starters would occasionally go 7 innings. This year is a slightly different story as far as that goes, but we’re also producing more runs this year, too. Still, I agree that the starters need to turn it up, as well.
I disagree that they are more of a concern than the bullpen, however. Honestly, who in this bullpen, besides Nathan, can be trusted right now? Guerrier is starting to look just as bad as Bass and Boof, Crain and Breslow are inconsistent, and Reyes is a nail-biter for a set-up guy, although at the moment he’s the best we have. The bullpen definitely is more concerning.
I would reserve judgment on Randy Ruiz for now…remember Tom Kelly always used to say ‘wait until they have 100 at-bats’ before you start making judgments about what you have…so far, so good, however.
“They intentionally walked Josh Hamilton with the bases loaded.”
That may have been the dumbest thing I have ever seen. The Rays intentionally brought the winning run to the plate. How amazingly stupid is that.
Howard,
The Bullpen seems to be the obvious answer, YET I think the inability of the young pups to keep their concentration could be far more problematic down the stretch.
This is the problem with a starting rotation which 1 starter with more that 1 years ML experience (Baker). Slowey and Pekins are just at 1 years experience and Blackburn & Liriano about 3/4 of season experience.
Also interesting in how they seem to pitch FAR BETTER in close games, and seem to day dream when given nice leads.
Regards,
Wow, so I take it everybody here thinks this team needs some bullpen help?
“remember Tom Kelly always used to say ‘wait until they have 100 at-bats’ before you start making judgments about what you have”
I thought it was 1,000?
mike wants wins,
We posted the same thing at the same time.
Time for you to go outside and retch, since agreeing with me has to be a stain on your otherwise sterling reputation 
Regards,
Dragon, hey, even a blind squirrel….
Your last post made me laugh, which is always a good thing at work. I agree that there may be a concentration issue, but I think it is a stuff issue as much as concentration. But, you do point out a good point in your favor, they seem to pitch better in close games.
Pete…I think he used the 100 number in talking about whether or not to keep a player up from AAA…
But let’s give some credit to the batters who are making adjustments to our young starters. The 3rd time through the lineup is a perfect time for batters to start to ‘figure out’ a pitcher. I think the problem with our starters ‘collapsing’ in the 6th inning has a lot to do with that.
mike,
Maybe it’s stuff, maybe it’s concentration, more likely it’s youth & inexperience. They have got to go through this and learn.
That’s why I have not been hot on the bringing in that last piece. While some call me an optimist, there are more potential holes on this team then any contending team.
It’s like the Dutch Boy and the dike. The story works fine if there is one leak. This team might need a whole troop of boys to plug potential holes before seasons end.
Regards,
Regards,
So Dragon, you’re saying maybe that’s why the FO hasn’t been making moves, because they don’t know where to start?
That is as good of an explanation as any other I’ve heard!
All I could think on Saturday was — please — not another 12-inning game (having been at the one on Tuesday for my birthday), but the Twins managed to pull it out. I thought the Seattle manager was over-managing, but their bullpen was as bad, if not worse, than ours. Rumor has it that Liriano will be pitching Monday night at Seattle, another game I will be attending, so I will be interested in seeing how the bullpens of both teams play into that. I was worried that I was going to have to watch Silva that night, also, but I heard they put him on the DL.
Mudcat,
I think that is part of it.
I have posted several times that I think the Twins FO, or ANY FO for that matter, are very good at assessing a young players potential. I think they are no better than the fans in predicting IF/WHEN that potential will actually be reached. That’s the human side of the equation. Take Boof as an example, I think we all see he has the potential, yet he can’t seem to take the next step. Is that the FO fault? Is it the Manager’s fault? Maybe, or is it something inside of Boof? Don’t know.
I think the FO did very well in the off season based on where they were when Bill Smith took over. He dealt with the Santana situation. He thought the young pitching was real, and I think if the SP continue to implode, the Livan signing will look better in hindsight (and he cut the cord at the right time +/- a week to 10 days).
He thought he had players who could step up in the infield, just not sure when, so short term deals to Everett & Lamb. Lamb not as consistant as his past would indicate, Everett hurt which his past might indicate. How would things be different with fewer injuries? Better? Worse?
NOW, Bill Smith is in a spot, with the team playing as good or better then anyone could have hoped when the season began. 4 starters with minimal ML experience have ALL done very well, Liriano got time to recover from injury in AAA, which IMHO has worked out very well. Playing very young players Young & Gomez, Casilla & Span comming up and contributing.
This is the youngest team in baseball, and seems to be quite resilient. While I hope, and would like a playoff spot, that’s gravy IMHO.
I expect the FO to have a much clearer idea of what holes remain to be plugged after the season, and as Bill Smith showed in the Young/Garza trade he WILL trade value for value.
The future looks very good, the present is frustrating because we NOW are evaluating from a much higher starting point.
Just an opinion.
Regards,
Is anybody else concerned than Nathan seems to run up a 3 ball count to every batter he faces? His #s are great, but this seems dangerous. Especially if he comes in with runners on.
Hey, don’t look now but the Twins and Whities are both just 1/2 game behind Boston for the AL Wild Card…
My hopes of a Twins v. Rays; Angels v. White Sox first round of the playoffs are looking better and better….
Howard or anyone else
What is your opinion when Cuddyer, Casilla and Tolbert are all healthy. Who stays and who goes
after we waived our ace he was quickly picked up and pitching as well as he was here. he picked up a win sat. 11 wins on the season and another good line 6 ip, 10 hits, 6 earned runs, but he got a win which is what counts, we should have never let him go! this game was against a very good hitting nationals team which makes it even more impressive!!
the bullpen has problems, sure, but when the starters cannot go past five innnings, it doesnt make things easier for the bullpen. Having to pick up 4 innnings every game.
We need starters to go six, seven, and even eight or nine innings.
pen vs. rotation is a chicken vs. egg problem imho, and I am sure that there are a lot of “gut feelings” about what needs to be fixed out there…
Appearances indicate that the pen is more of an issue now (team ERA 1st half 3.85, 2nd half 4.71) vs the rotation (1st half 4.59 2nd half 4.00); however, if one looks at opponents BABIP during those spits, the rotation opponents BABIP dropped from .313 in the first half to .284 in the second half, whereas the bullpen opp BABIP was raised from .301 in the first half to .322 in the second half.
So does lady luck have anything to do with it and the team is due for a correction (and the last couple of starts were a sing of correction for the rotation -towards the wrong way- and we should expect a correction -towards the right way- for the pen?) Possibly. The rotation opp BABIP in August has been an insane .367, where that of the rotation jumped from a low .274 in July to an average .291 in August.
Are personnel changes necessary?
The rotation got a boost by the Liriano for Livan change. Even though it has been an up and down situation, I am not sure that there are better options out there for the remainder of the season.
As far as the pen goes, I think that Guerrier will rebound, since he has been very unlucky this month (opponent BABIP July .300, August .522; and any way you cut it, those numbers indicate that there is more than ‘overuse’, ‘tired arm’ etc.) It is still amazing to see Bass with the team. Bringing Korecky up for middle relief (* what is that Gardy garbage that ‘Korecky has to develop a change up before he makes it to the majors’ while Bass has no plus pitches, btw?) and keeping Boof for mop up work exclusively when the game is out of reach with the hope that he might turn it around next season, might help a lot for the remainder of this month.
Overall is a bit frustrating to see large leads lost, but I think that no major changes are needed (and even if there were needed, they could not happen) at this point…
Mike Wants Wins:
Well said, I think that at first people thought the Santana deal would not hurt. Afterall, he pitches once every five games. But if we had a starter now who went eight or nine a game and win, it would be a huge relief on the bullpen.
Cuddyer and Tolbert will not be healthy before the rosters expand, so that’s not an issue. If Casilla is healthy before August 31, take a pick from Everett or Buscher
1. Ruiz looks great/fearless.
2. Guerrier needs more rest. Save him for big games.
3. Kubel is every day now. no GIDPs all weekend, no?
4. Liriano looks good, but has to be more efficient, like the rest of them.
5. @#*$&(%& Matt Garza.
Bullpen needs help now. (Neshek & Our Minor League Prospects)
Infield needs Casilla.
Gomez needs patience.
Gardie needs to intentionally walk hitters when the game is on the line.
I dont know if cuddy is missed at all. I would much rather get Casilla back soon than Cuddy. And in a dream world, the biggest disaster this year was Neshek.
We need starters to go six, seven, and even eight or nine innings.
Amen. Especially when the offense has staked them to a nice lead. We need more bulldogs, fewer wimps.
Ben D.
I think the only player we need to wonder about is what happens when Casilla rejoins the team on Wed. Cuddyer and Tolbert, assuming either or both are ready won’t be back until after the roster can expand.
The decision this week when Casilla gets back will be interesting. An argument could be made to demote Ruiz, or waive Everett, but if I were in charge I would consider telling GoGo to gogo to Rochester until the end of the month and get his head back together. Having Kubel and Ruiz in the batting order at the same time is intriguing to me. I liked yesterday’s lineup. If you need a fourth outfielder during the two weeks you can put Everett back at short and move Punto to the outfield in an emergency.
You could hear the frustration in Gardy’s comments on his show yesterday with how out of it GoGo is. Being sent down has worked for a number of past contributors (Torii, Bartlett, Cuddy, Span, to name a few) and I don’t see why telling Gomez he’s going down for two weeks or less is such a problem. He seems to have handled every other move ok.
It will be interesting to see what they decide.
Of course, knocking on wood, someone else could destroy their finger between now and Wed.
With the OF depth the Twins have in the minors: Hicks, Revere, Morales, Pirdie, and others where are they going to fit in with the current depth right now in the Majors:
Cuddyer/Kubel/Young/Gomez/Span
Other than maybe Cuddyer, I dont see those remaining four going anywhere, so againg what does that mean for the yougsters? Since Revere seems to be the biggest lock to making it too the majors I say the Twins start turning him into a 2B. Besides from what I have heard he is struggling in the OF. have Pirdie be a 4th OF, I dont see how there will be room for Hicks and Morales if and when they have the Major League talent i think they have.
Willie,
the problem with sending Gomez down when Casilla comes back is that the bench will be only infielders and Redmond. Bad move… an infielder has to go, Buscher has options
if Gomez hadnt been our payola for Santana he would be in Rochester now.
The FO doesnt want to admit they got ripped off in Santana trade
Revere is probably 2+ years away (right when Cuddy’s contract expires). Hicks and Morales are probably 3+ years away (right when Young will become a free agent). Figure a couple trades in between and they will all fit. (again, prospects no matter how great numbers they have in the minors are not a sure bet)
I think Punto can play the outfield for the rest of a game if someone was injured and until Pridie or Gomez were called back up.
Based on performance you’d hate to send Buscher down. Maybe they can send Lambchop down. Whatever they decide it will be a short term situation until the rosters expand.
Punto has played a grand total of 9 innings at the OF in the majors (I’d rather see Ruiz in the OF than Punto) and Lamb is out of options…
Kevin
They didnt get ripped off. Gomez has struggled this year, but he is young! Do you expect him to be a all star in his first full year? Gomez is just raw to begin with, but the twins are willing to be patient with him because in 2/3 years he could be a .280-.290 hitter with 20HR with 60SB and EXCELLENT defense. Be patient, start talking bad in 2/3 years if he still isn producing.
I am so glad I dont have to watch Mike Phelps or his fat weepy mom anymore.
You can rack up medals in swimming doing one thing, while a decathalte has to perform in diverse activities, with only one medal at stake.
Thrylos
Yea i know that all prospects arent a lock, but do you really see the Twins not resigning young? And yea if Revere is ready when Cuddyer is done, where do you see him fitting in the OF? Span/Gomez/Young with Kubel as DH? Would it not make sense to have him be a 2B, since by all the reports i have heard he is strugling in the OF
Santana last year was 15-13 with the Twins; this year, he is 11-7 with the Mets. His replacement for the Twins this year (Perkins) is 10-3 + $19.5mil + Gomez, Mulvey, Humber and Guerra.
I’d take that
Thrlos
Completly agree, also it is easy to side with the twins end of the deal if you have any patience and realize Gomez is going to be one hell of a player in 2 to 3 years.
I don’t understand how people rip into Gomez when Torii Hunter wasn’t much to write home about (except his defense) until his last 2 years with the Twins.
1) I disagree the starting pitching is somehow responsible for the bullpen’s struggles. I don’t think anyone could have asked for more than the team’s gotten from it’s starters this year. As for going deeper in games, Twins starters are actually averaging slightly more IP per start this year than they did in either of the last 2 years, including the 2006 team that had a fantastic bullpen.
2) The problem is the bullpen, and it has been a big problem for a long time. Crain/Guerrier as the only 2 semi-reliable righties not named Nathan is a recipe for problems, as neither ACTUALLY ARE semi-reliable, and that problem is magnified by keeping both Boof and Bass in the pen. Gardy is justifiably reluctant to bring either of Boof/Bass into any game that’s close, so 3 or 4 close games in a row results in both overuse for the Crain/Guerrier twosome and/or watching one of Boof/Bass pitch with the game on the line late. There is really no excuse for the front office allowing this situation to drag on for months. It’s too late to trade and if the waiver wire was gonna happen it already would have, so bite the bullet, take your best shot among the pitchers in the minors and send Bass down. If he gets claimed, he gets claimed. You’re in a pennant race for pete’s sake…is ponentially losing Brian Bass too big a risk?
3) As for who gets called up into the pen, I’d go with Delaney, but I really don’t care who it is, and the team should have a better idea than I do who might be ready to help. But try something in the pen. I also think the pen has probably been a little unlucky recently and hopefully is due for a little turnaround. Combine that with a fresh arm or two and a better construction that doesn’t have two guys who you can’t use in a close game, and maybe that’ll be enough to limp home.
Tyler,
Revere has 10 errors in the OF. He never played 2B so I suspect that if he struggles in the OF, he will struggle more in the infield. Whether or not the Twins keep Young, will have to depend on his performance and what kind of contract he will be looking for.
At the span of 2 years the Twins will have to sign extensions or let go of the following:
2010 Young
2010 Crain
2011 Kubel
2011 Mauer
2011 Cuddyer (he is a goner)
2011 Guerrier
2011 Liriano
something’s got to give…
The twins would be stupid to switch revere to 2B. He is having trouble playing defensively in the outfield, and you want to switch him to a more difficult position? That would be unwise, and his hitting could potentially suffer because of it. What’s the matter with casilla at 2nd? lets give him a chance to prove himself before we start messing around with top prospects.
Kevin, I’m also Phelps’d-out (without the insults, however).
To me, it almost boils down to handing the tallest man in the world 8 Gold Medals for winning 8 different reach-up-as-high-as-you-can contests…
Gomez can be sent down next year…it doesn’t make any sense at this point; September call-ups are less than two weeks away…maybe give him some extra days off…
thrylos….nothing has to give…the only players worthy of extensions on that list at this point are Mauer, Young, and Liriano….in the case of Liriano and Mauer, it will cost you (but they aren’t up until 2010-2011…Crain, Kubel, Guerrier…if they are extended, shouldn’t cost much).
Cuddyer already received his MLB pay-day…he’s fighting for veteran time at this point…
thrylos,
I expect FO looks to do long term deals with Mauer & maybe Kubel this off season,
Next year probably do Young, Liriano, Baker…
Last year’s Morneau & Cuddyer signings leads me to believe they have seen the light. Get the LT contracts early, which saves money both LT & ST.
Regards,
I’m sick of chris collinsworth at the olympics. The guy looks creepy and evil.
seriously, you’re going to use W/L record to judge Santana?
He has 8 no decisions where he has given up 2 runs or less. He is 4th in NL in ERA. He’s 8th in strikeouts.
The Twins got nothing much for Santana this year. Unless they move one of their existing starters to the pen, and Humber or Mulvey is a starter, all they’ll have next year is 4th or 5th OFer and a bullpen guy in the seond year of the deal, plus a guy in AAA and a guy who took a HUGE step backward in A ball. In exchange for one of the 5 best pitchers in the game.
The Indians got a potential star for CC. The Twins got not much. The BA writers are even more down on the trade than they were when it was made.
Put Santana on this team, move one of the current starters to the pen, and then tell me if the Twins aren’t better this year.
Also, Dan Barreiro seems impressed that Phelps is willing to talk about his accomplishments with Bob Costas after the events, contrasting him with other world class athletes who appear to be prima donnas…
I thought Barreiro was smarter than that…it’s called marketing. The Tom Brady’s and Tiger Woods’ of the world get to pick and choose when they want to appear before microphones because they already have the world by the you-know-whats…Phelps only has a window of about 2 weeks to cash in on his legacy!
mike wants wins
Don’t you know that the win-loss record is the ONLY stat that matters for pitchers? Look through past blogs for all the posts defending Livan Hernandez. That will set you straight.
mike wants wins,
Santana on this team, no better maybe 3-5 wins less.
That’s IF he were to pitch, rather than sulk. He’d be gone at the end of the year, no matter what, for 2 draft picks which would make the ML in 2050 (well not quite that long).
Say Santana vs. Livan/Liriano spot. Twins 17-9 in those starts, Maybe he adds a win or 2 IF he got better run support than past history, and a potential cancer in the clubhouse.
Regards,
livan now has 11 wins!
how long will it take to get over the santana deal, when he didn’t want to be here anymore? he would have been like hunter last yr doing a farewell tour all yr telling every team with money how’d he like to play for them. with either replacement for him out, blackburn or perkins, take your pick would we really be any better off? maybe, maybe not. the guys reported to be offered by the yanks are all in the minors and ellsbury hasn’t shown superstar status. lester is the only one looking good and as has been said here a hundred times nobody, on here, knows for sure what was really offered. get over it!
Mike,
The BA writers were down on the Twins “Beer League” 1st round draft pick a year ago as well.
I guess that I should accept their accuracy on that pick where they were dead on correct. I NOW agree with you.
Regards,
I forgot to add in my above post that i like the santana trade, and was just pointing out that i disagree with judging a pitcher solely on w-l record. I think Gomez will be a hell of a player in a few years, even if watching him now does make my head want to explode. And, odds are, at least one of the three pitchers we recieved will pan out and be a serviceable major leaguer, in some capacity. I’ll take that, for a guy that didn’t want to be here, every day.
As for going deeper in games, Twins starters are actually averaging slightly more IP per start this year than they did in either of the last 2 years, including the 2006 team that had a fantastic bullpen.
Chief: The Twins need the starters to go more than ’slightly deeper’ precisely because this bullpen is not fantastic. The bullpen woes are largely due to overuse. This last series was a case in point. If Baker and Perkins can lock down nice leads, Guerrier and Crain can recover from their tired, dead arm phase and make the bullpen less of an issue. How many innings the starters averaged the first few months is now a non-issue. Baseball is all about ‘what have you done for me, lately?” The starters need to step it up down the stretch, not fade away. More bulldogs, fewer wimps.
Fran
This is Perkin’s first year in the bigs as a starter. Same with Slowey and Blackburn. Liriano had 2006 but still wouldn’t say he’s “been there, done that”. Only Baker has done it before. ONCE.
You don’t overwork a young staff. You have to be extremely careful in number of IPs for the staff. There is a significant relationship between a big jump in innings pitched for a season and injuries. Ask Wood or Prior.
More bulldogs? More brains.
Howard,
I suppose it’s all about perspective. The most important news of the weekend for me was finding out Casilla was coming to Cedar Rapids to join Beloit for games tonight and tomorrow night for his rehab.
Oh… and yeah.. bullpen help would be nice.
WE NEED GOMEZ IN CENTER. PERIOD.
Gomez and Span with their incredible speed make such a HUGE difference in our lineup and in the defensive outfield.
Gomez may have saved more runs on defense than he has scored on offense…Think about it…He’s impressive in the field…especially if you’re at the games…he gets to balls with ease that others (like Hunter) would need a circus catch to reach.
Sending Gomez to the minors is a HUGE mistake in my opinion.
Fran: How is it “overuse” in 2008, and it wasn’t in 2006?
Which do you think will be more productive?
1) Wishing–demanding, in fact–that the starters simply pitch more innings, or
2) Finding some better pitchers to handle the innings the starters DON’T pitch?
You can’t squeeze blood from a turnip. And you can’t simply tell the starters “go longer.”
At the very least the Twins need to get rid of one of Bass/Bonser so that there aren’t two relivers in the pen who the manager won’t, and shouldn’t, use whenever the games not out of hand.
I’m elated Nathan is doing as well as he is, however, I do hope it lasts.
Anyone else noticed that he’s down 2-3 mph this year. Still getting the results, but one wonders if he’s finally showing some signs of aging - or was he taking some of those special vitamins a few years ago? I doubt it, perhaps he’s just getting a little older…of course, right after signing the big contract -
Right TRS, batting slump is not the whole story.
You don’t overwork a young staff. You have to be extremely careful in number of IPs for the staff. There is a significant relationship between a big jump in innings pitched for a season and injuries. Ask Wood or Prior.
JP: I am with Bert Blyleven. I think if you tell pitchers they will hit a wall, don’t be surprised when the wall shows up. We have relatively young, relatively fresh arms. I’m not talking about 140 pitches, but you should be able to get six or seven innings out of them on a regular basis without the meltdowns we saw from Baker and Perkins this weekend. The only way to stretch them out and get more innings is for them to begin producing a few more quality innings. Otherwise, they will hit the wall in mid-August when they’re 30 or 35, too.
2) Finding some better pitchers to handle the innings the starters DON’T pitch?
Chief, easier said than done. They did find Breslow to handle some of that load and thank goodness. I think you tend to oversimplify the process. It’s like the Vikes have to know they need someone better than T-Jack, but they couldn’t snap their fingers and put Favre on the roster. And the Wolves knew for years they needed a supporting cast around KG, but we’re never quite able to get it done. Doesn’t mean they weren’t trying and I think the same applies to the Twins.
Howard:
Did you see Michael Phelps? Some think a replay would show he didn’t win!
(phelps is this swimmer in the olympics who won a whole bunch of races in spite of a junior high teacher who told him he’d never amount to a hill of beans, in case you were living in a oklahoma cave)
The most important thing? The fact that this flawed team is in first bodes really well for 2009 and beyond.
“Easier said than done.”
I agree Fran, it’s why I’ve been after the front office for months about the bullpen.
But I also think it’s more productive to focus on things that CAN be done, or at least can be tried, than to look at the starters, simply demand they pitch longer, and expect that to work.
If pitchers can be expected to pitch betters simply because we want them to, why don’t we just look at the bullpen and tell them collectively, “Stop sucking so much. We demand it.” That should work too, right?
Asking Perkins to go longer on Sunday is preposterous. That old dude who threw to Josh Hamilton at the All-Star home run contest has better stuff than Perkins had in the sixth. He gave up about 1,250 feet of long ball while trying to get three outs. The Twins’ bullpen appeared to want to blow the game but were turned back by the corresponding monkey shines of the Mariners’ pen. It appeared the Seattle relievers were trying to make a statement, that being: We are far, far better at pissing a game away than you’ll ever dream of being.
If pitchers can be expected to pitch betters simply because we want them to, why don’t we just look at the bullpen and tell them collectively, “Stop sucking so much. We demand it.” That should work too, right?
Chief, that may work as well as anything
I think the Dragon was close to the mark when he wrote this:
Also interesting in how they seem to pitch FAR BETTER in close games, and seem to day dream when given nice leads.
I don’t think it’s a physical thing as much as that mental fear of “the wall” or (in the case of Guerrier, Crain, et. al.) the “dead arm phase.”
Maybe what the Twins needs most is someone to tell the starters there is no ‘wall,’ except in their heads and to tell the the pen to stop sucking.
See the ball, throw the ball. And tomorrow, have a big steak.
CANNOT HIT ONE IN THE GAP vs. The Twins
Why? Because with Young, Gomez & Span and their super speed there is no gap … They get to everything!
Save Runs….
KEEP OUR OUTFIELD INTACT!!!
Even IF the starters pitch through 7 more consistently and occasionally go longer, the pen still has a problem. As Chief mentioned, you have two guys in Bass and Bonser that no one has faith in should the game be close. For the past month, Guerrier has been in an awful funk. Crain has been inconsistent and the organization believes he may hitting a wall because he has been recovering from last year’s arm problems. In fact, the Twins have been hesitant to use Crain in back-to-back games this year because of this. Will more innings from the starters help? Sure…but the pen will still need to get key outs. And if Guerrier, Boof and Bass look lost, and Crain may not be available as much as the team needs (assuming he’s pitching well), increased innings from starters will not be a complete fix.
If the Twins continue to contend, we can assume there will be a lot of important games where the team is either ahead by a run or two, tied, or behind by a run or two in the late innings. Someone needs to get those outs between the starters and Nathan–and get them in consecutive games or 3 out of four games, etc. It will happen. In addition, there will always be those games where the starters pitch poorly-go only 4 or 5 innings. If a waiver deal is too hard at this point in the season, a reliever (or 2) must be called up from AAA. Bass and Bonser are just wasting space right now–at least one needs to go.
Interesting,
NOW the pitching is a problem, at least for the moment. While some, particularly USAFChief have been banging the bullpen drums for some time, as I remember, at the trade deadline, the season was over because we DID NOT get a RH bat. Woe be Us.
Stat’s since the trade deadline:
TB 12-4 5-1 home 7-3 away
Bost 10-5 6-2 home 4-3 away
Minn 10-5 7-2 home 3-3 away
Chi 10-6 7-3 home 3-3 away
LAA 8-6 6-2 home 2-4 away
NYY 7-9 4-2 home 3-7 away
Now of the Twins 5 losses, only 1 can be attributed to lack of hitting. The 1-5 loss in Cleveland. So was a RH bat needed or just wanted?
Is the pitching a problem or a phase? I don’t know, I think it’s a problem, and time will tell.
Regards,
the Dragon,
you forgot to add that the Twins added Ruiz. So they DID get a RH bat that is hitting at a .364 pace
“Chief, that may work as well as anything”
Ok, maybe so. Do we know, for a fact, that Gardy, Anderson, Stelly, SOMEbody has actually told the bullpen to ’stop sucking?’
If not, here’s one fan’s try:
An open letter to all Twins relief pitchers, except a certain late inning save specialist who shall remain unnamed:
Dear Pen:
Stop sucking.
We demand it.
Thanks.
Sincerely,
USAFChief, on behalf of Twins fans everywhere.
And you can’t simply tell the starters “go longer.”
Nor can you simply tell the FO: “Get better pitching.” or “Get a better hitter.”
Baseball works like a bartering system. You have to give to get. Who would you be willing to give up on the Twins current roster to aquire an improved pitcher or hitter?
Keeping in mind that you can’t just bunch Cuddyer (who’s on the DL), Boof, Bass, Lamb, and Punto and expect to get back that miracle arm.
you forgot to add that the Twins added Ruiz. So they DID get a RH bat that is hitting at a .364 pace
They also dumped Livan and Monroe, as well as brought up Liriano.
livan now has 11 wins!
11 wins?! We sure could use that kind of potential on this team. I wonder if the Rockies would take Cuddyer for Livan straight up.
Good point, T. Those two things (”Go longer,” and “Get better pitching”) are exactly the same.
Exactly like my boss telling me “Tomorrow, be smarter and taller,” and “Tomorrow, finish your work before you go home.”
Those two things are exactly the same also, in much the same way.
Sheesh.
Exactly like my boss telling me “Tomorrow, be smarter and taller,” and “Tomorrow, finish your work before you go home.”
Strawman.
Most normal people can get smarter and better if they continue to work at their jobs. (Hence, a pitcher potentially can improve their stamina with more training)
If the boss (in this case you) tells the employee (in this case Smith) to get their work done (in this case make a trade), hopefully the boss recognizes that the employee can’t program in Java (Street or Rivera) if all they’ve got is assembly (Hawkins or Bradford).
Hopefully the boss would also recognize that if this is a group project (in this case a trade), that you can only do so much before another employee (in this case another team) has to step up and contribute (in this case release a player).
Not to mention that since we’re getting close to employee reviews (in this case the playoffs), other employees (in this case the teams blow the Twins) are also gunning to hit those deadlines (in this case aquire the player) or just sweep your legs out from under you (put in a blocking claim).
Got any other fun metaphors you want to go ahead and trot out?
That was an impressive use of parenthetical inserts.
The logic, not so much.
The logic, not so much.
As my professor would always ask in Copm 101: “Care to elaborate your thesis statement?”
Did so already.
Next time, as my professor would always tell me in class, “pay attention.”
Yesterday’s lineup was the best since 2006. If it were……..
Span
Casilla
Mauer
Morneau
Beltre
Kubel
Young
Ruiz
Punto/Everett
…..The Twins would win the WS.
Next time, as my professor would always tell me in class, “pay attention.”
I fail to see how you were able to form a response to my subsequent throttling of your metaphor.
If you’ve said it so many times before it shouldn’t be hard to repeat yourself. Goodness knows you repeat your stance on other subjects without much trouble.
On a side note: anybody else watching coverage of the US/China baseball game in Beijing?
Apparently they’ve hit numerous American players, including one guy who had to be taken out due to a blow to the head.
Unfortunately I didn’t see them, so I only have the annoucers opinion that they were throwing at the US team.
The Twins have 5 hitters over .300 (using Buscher, not Harris)— all pretty much legitimately so. Additionally, Kubel will hit .300 the rest of the way. When Casilla returns, they essentially will have 7 hitters batting over .300 the rest of the way.
As Young will hit .290 (maybe .300) the rest of the way this year.
As Punto/Everett will hit .270 the rest of the way this year.
So it could easily be the case the Twins will have all hitters over .300 the rest of the way except Punto/Everett at SS.
Gomez should remain on the bench.
Lamb should be let go.
Don’t see any room for Cuddy on this club. Ruiz is a true DH. (He’ll start hitting extra base hits more.) Kubel is NOT below average in right (he’s just average).
This is Vavra’s year.
romer: I don’t see room for Cuddyer this year, but I don’t think they should cut bait on him so soon.
If anything, having the current OF/DH situation would be a good opportunity to make sure Cuddy gets as much time as he needs to get back to full health.
cuddy doesn’t seem to be a fast healer so it would be lucky for him to play much this yr. that will make it hard to trade him, if they wanted to, until late in spring training.
who goes down when casilla gets back. everett? punto will play ss gardy has to have him in the lineup. or do they send down harris or buscher? both should have options left. doubt they’ll eat lamb’s contract.
“…as much time as he needs…”
Which means over the winter.
LaPorta in the Olympics is still dizzy after being beaned as in the hospital for the usual precautionary stuff and X Ray.
162 games later you will still have the following….in a playoff appearance
No one to come off the bench in a key at-bat to hit a hoemrun or scare an opposing picther
Visting 7th-string announcing teams hyping the noise in the Metrodome hoping the team can score 1 run.
Twins getting hosed in starting times of playoff games in CST. Yipee, a 3:43 starting time on a Tuesday.
The Punto era and lovefest continues. Brooks Robinson and Johnny Moses all in one. His grit will carry him nowhere.
Embarressing pinch-hitters coming to bat in key playoff situations to make front office look poor for no trading deadline help.
LaPorta in the Olympics is still dizzy after being beaned as in the hospital for the usual precautionary stuff and X Ray.
I saw that. I bet Cleveland isn’t too pleased with the Chinese right now. At least, I think he’s the big guy they got in the Sabathia deal is he not?
On my dream team (3:13 pm) the pinch hitters would be Red, Harris, and Punto. Gomez is the pinch runner. Cuddy’s not on the team.
The Twins starters need to go a minumum of six innings, they can’t let down and start getting the pitches up. Seven inning we be even better, but that may be a lot to expect with this young group. Another decent reliever would really help, if Nathan has to keep coming in the eigth, he might will get worn out.
we need k-rod as a set-up man
we need a ss
we need cuddy too never come back
we need casilla to come back now!
we need a bullpen..
we need to dfa bass everett lamb and maybe boof and bring up casilla luke hughes korecky and if bonser goes bring up mulvey to.
Thrylos98 you do make sense most of the time. On your list of players I see you have Cuddyer gone by 2011. Well he will be gone before that, say 2010 and thats even before the season starts. My reason is he’s to expensive and somewhat injury prone. Twins have some good young players in the minors and Im saying one maybe two will be here by then. Jason wrote something about Gomez being sent down. Recently, I said when the Twins break camp next year, its not Denard Span going to Rochester,oh no, it will be go go Gomez! Because of the trade and some of the good things he has done already the FO kept him here and I feel he has earned the right to stay and play if post season becames a reality. Next season is a new season and unless some outfielder gets hurt early and he has not improved his game then BS and Gardy will be telling him here is your ticket to Rochester….
Dear Pen:
Stop sucking.
We demand it.
Thanks.
Sincerely,
USAFChief, on behalf of Twins fans everywhere.
Chief…
Seems to have worked for Breslow and “TWO scoreless innings in one game” Bass.
Crain may need a re-send, he didn’t seem to get the message.
Fran
I hope so.
If so, I’ll take the credit for it…
Although Oakland’s assbats might have a legit claim as well.
