Spliiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!
Posted on August 25th, 2008 – 8:05 AMBy Howard
Doesn’t quite have the same ring to it as “sweeeeeeeeeeeep,” does it?
I suppose, however, if you had guaranteed a split against the Angels before the series started, I would have taken the deal. The Angels are an awfully good team, as evidenced by their runaway showing in the AL West, their deep starting rotation, their offense and just about any other measure that you want to inspect them by.
That being said, it makes it a bit more frustrating that Saturday’s game was basically thrown away with an inning of singularly awful defense — the two errors by Brian Buscher and the fly ball that Carlos Gomez missed that could have easily been called an error instead of a double. And then Jesse Crain’s bullpen work left a bunch to be desired in the eighth inning on Sunday. The stuff was there, the location wasn’t.
Bullpen failures are part of late-inning, late-season meaningful baseball. The White Sox bullpen spit up games Friday and Saturday against Tampa Bay, and one of the few problems for the Angels has been some shaky work by their excellent set-up guy, Scot Shields. A chunk of the Tigers season-long mediocrity can be traced to their unreliable relief (keeping them from the realm of meaningful late-season baseball) and the Rays collection of relievers couldn’t hold a one-run lead in the ninth at Chicago, in part due to the nefarious AJ Pierzynski. (Note to all: If a Twin had done what AJ did, forcing the umps to interpret a rule and trying something to avoid a certain out, it would have been brilliant baseball. I’d love to avoid another “AJ good or bad” discussion. Just my preference, though.)
To me, Buscher’s defense was especially unnerving. A bad throw started the big Los Angeles inning on Saturday and a muffed grounder allowed it to continue. They were routine plays and that just can’t happen this time of year, even if he’s batting .309. Some people, myself included, have given him credit for improvement over the way he played third base last year. But the throws have been dicier lately and he doesn’t have the hands of the other third base options, which will multiply in a couple of weeks when the Twins will add Matt Tolbert and, likely, Matt Macri to the roster. In other words, it wasn’t just Saturday.
The importance of solid defense was shown Sunday in the four difficult plays that Nick Punto turned at third base, the first two kept the Angels from threatening in the first inning and the other two helped the Twins hang on to their lead for as long as they did.
Combine that with the fact that Punto is 12-for-25 in the last half-dozen games (and has a 13-game hitting streak) and it’s a no-brainer that, right now, Gardy has to put Punto’s name in the lineup — either at third base with Everett at short or at shortstop with Brendan Harris at third. I’m not a “you guys don’t under how good Punto really is” guy, but he’s a two-way hot hand right now and the Twins need to run with that for as long as he’s smokin’. (Yes, I know how painful that is to some of you, but you’ll just hafta calm down and Punto up for now.)
A couple of other notes: Anyone who has this game figured out should tell the rest of us what was up with Justin Morneau’s performance Sunday. After swinging a tired bat for most of the Angels series — and getting Gardy to talk about the need to give him a break at some point — he carried the offense with a single, double, home run and all three RBI. Maybe it was a trip to In-N-Out Burger or some other day-off placebo. Whatever the case, it was a nice breakthrough I didn’t expect to see Sunday.
And, finally, with six games coming up against Seattle and Oakland before finishing up at Toronto, I think we can be comfortable saying that the Twins can and should come home from this road trip with a winning record. The White Sox are on the road for 20 of their final 33 games, with their road action coming in a pair of 10-game trips.
So it’s not gonna be easy for them, either.
(I’ll be at the State Fair today on Minnesota Public Radio’s Midday Show at 11 a.m. We’ll have some fabulous gifts for people who ask questions and it’s a fine excuse to miss a day or work. Otherwise, you can listen to the show at 91.1 FM or the MPR website.)
other people are here too
199 Responses to "Spliiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!"
Keith Law said it best the Twins have a below average offense that has looked better because of a unsustainable .315 average with RISP now that the bullpen is shaky it will be hard for this team to stay in the race unless their pact with the devil keeps up and they hit .315 for the last month and change of the regular season
buscher just isn’t a major league 3rd baseman. he is a dh with little power at best. not getting beltre could really haunt us, tho the price was probably to high.
nice run by nicky, after a terrible month at the plate hitting .180, he has really stepped up. is this the new nicky or just a late season contract push?
hmmm.. odd coincidence that LNP 2 best year have been in contract years? he is hitting 40 points higher then his career average in his 2 contract years. I just hope the Twin’s are not dumb enough to give him another multi-year contract for anything more then 500k.. he has fooled them once it better not be twice
I think Punto has 9 multi-hit games in the last 13 - he is smoking!
BILL SMITH SUCKS.
WHY ISN’T THE LOCAL MEDIA HARDER ON HIM?
HE GAVE UP TOO MUCH FOR DELMON YOUNG/HARRIS. HE GOT 3 BROKEN DOWN VETERNS. AND HE COULD NOT EVEN GET AN AVERAGE BULLPEN ARM.
HE IS PATHETIC AND SHOULD RESIGN.
IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE JOKERS IN SEATTLE, HE WOULD BE THE GAME’S WORST.
come on Billy is hamstrung by the same cheap owner Terry Ryan was atleast Billy is willing to trade his stockpile of pitching for hitting.. Young has done great and Harris’s numbers are just as good as Barlett’s
the washed up veteran pickups I can agree with Twins have tried this for years hoping to get lucky but again I think this is a product more of their cheap owner limiting what they can spend
11-3 on the road trip is still well within the realm of possibility…
You’re tempted to have a sour attitude after two losses in a row, but I beg everyone to remain positive…
Sure, the bullpen coughed one up again yesterday…but those guys are getting after it, believe me…if only they had used Guerrier and Nathan instead of Reyes and Crain, well, you know the results would have been different…
I was hoping Justin would get his triple and complete an improbable cycle…oh well, I guess we have to settle for 3-for-4 with 3 RBI, too bad it didn’t come in a winning effort…
Denard Span, post-game ejection and all (Brian Gorman’s strike zone late in the game was laughably bad, by the way), is definitely showing that he’s Gardy’s type of player!
Joe Mauer played a day game after a night game and extended his hitting streak! Who knew?
Jason Kubel had a big homeru…
Jason Ku….
Jason Kubel was absolutely on fire last weekend against Seattle!
I really like the idea of going with Mike Lamb at third base and keeping Brendan Harris on the bench against righties…Buscher obviously can’t be trusted in the field, and we need a veteran presence out there in these big games!
Punto Punto Punto! We were all wrong, time to man-up and give the guy his props…
Go-go….ahh…life could be better, but you gotta love the enthusiasm he brings to the ballpark (if not the strikeouts and deer-in-headlight defensive play)…I’m hoping for a Sep. push from Go-go!
Starting pitching rocks!
Seattle’s next…Kubel will be back…Morny’s coming on…I think a big winning streak is on the horizon.
Still sticking with 11-3 on this road trip! We can do it.
Plus, I really do think once Gardy gets a grasp on how to manage the bullpen, we’ll be fine. No need to bring in another arm…just make sure and use Guerrier and Nathan in one-run games!
Let’s regrab the momentum tonight!
Can we delete posts that are written in all caps please?
Hi guys:
HOward’s right, a split in Anaheim is fine. The way they lost is disappointing…not the kind of Twins baseball we have all grown accustomed to over the years. But it’s time to go to Seattle, and they really need to 2-1 in Seattle and at least 2, preferably 3, wins in Oakland. Toronto is actually playing very well right now and if they continue that is going to be a difficult series. I still think 7-7 would have to be considered a successful road trip, all things considered. As Howard points out, CWS have to win on the road too, and they have shown they can’t do that very well.
The Twins are an odd team. One day, they look to have great post-season potential. The next day, just the opposite. I hope they can find some consistent play in the next month, reel off a 6 or 7 game winning streak. That sort of thing would put them in great shape.
LOL thanks Jason!
I watched the White Sox game and all I could think was, how does Pierzynski keep getting away with this crap?? I don’t buy the whole “if a twin had done it it would have been good baseball” because there isn’t a guy on the other 29 teams that would try to pull the stuff that dillhole pulls. It’s just unbelievable to me because when he does stuff like that and gets away with it the umps are the ones that look like jackasses and you would think they would have grown tired of having the same guy discrediting them over and over again
I agree with many. Split would have sounded good in the first place. But not after winning the first two, and having very good chances to win the last two.
This team needs a big home run threat. Maybe more than a bull pen ace
Twin’s scored enough runs to win the bullpen continues to let them down
Just looking at LaTroy Hawkins’ stats with Houston since he was picked up … ten appearances, 12K, 3BB, 2H, 7IP. Oh, and two wins with a save. Not saying we’d have benefited from that sort of hot streak … I’m just sayin’.
One way that the Angels don’t exactly measure up is in run differential. At +53, they are just 11th in the majors. It’s pretty amazing that they have the record that they have, given the fact that they aren’t outscoring their opponents by much.
The magic number is six days.
that is by when the Twins play off roster would need to be pretty much set. The bench in the majors is flawed with three 3rd basement (Butcher/Harris/Lamb). I assume that if and once Cuddyer is healthy and off the DL, he will take the place of one of them. The risk is that nobody knows whether Cuddyer would actually return this season and whether when he returns he can swing the bat. I think that the team should take the risk factor out, option Butcher to Rochester and recall Pridie. Worse comes to worse, if Cuddy is healthy and productive, he could take Pridie’s spot.
Butcher has proven day in day out that he is awful defensively. Lamb and Harris need more time on the field (and on the lineup)
Fire,
Keith Law has been down on the Twins since the day he was born; his arguments need to be flushed…
Howard, as a former reporter, can you comment on how hard it is to ask hard questions?
Gardy said he’s use Nathan more, and he hasn’t. There have been several chances to use him in crucial situations (either in the 8th or in tie games) that weren’t his usual “start the 9th and get a save” situations.
And yet, not one question from the Strib reporters on this topic. Is it just too hard to ask hard questions when you need to be around these guys for 6 months?
he’s s/b he’d, sorry
just because he is down on the Twin’s doesn’t mean he doesn’t make sense and have valid points…
“they aren’t outscoring their opponents by much”
Good pitching - OK offensive teams like the Angels don’t light up run-differential.
Thats for teams that score a lot of runs. (and don’t necessarily win)
If they don’t win the division, the games lost in the 8th inning will come back to haunt them as the difference. The inactivity to solve that problem is distressing. It appears to me that Gomez has gotten worse in the field and at the bat as the season has gone along. Any body else think so?
Going into this series, I thought a split would be nice. But the split is not so nice when we threw away two winnable games.
I am starting to have the same sickening feeling when Gardy trots Crain out to the mound as when he used to send out Rincon.
Yes, FG&V, I’d much rather have an above average offence with a .220 avg w/RISP. That would be much better. Wow, what a baseball mind.
Keith Law is an idiot along with Rob Neyer. Both are Twins haters because the Twins don’t do it the sabermetric way. They have no explanation for their continued sucess except luck because it doesn’t fit with sabermetrics.
Well Rob and Keith keep predicting the Twins hitting with RISP would drop and its gone up from a 311 low about two weeks ago. Its quite a lot of luck for it to last after 130 games.
As for the Twin wow they only got a split against LA on the road. Brutal! (sarcasm flowing)
That said tough loss but the Mariners are up and they got that Batista guy pitching who is just awfull. That’s good news.
I wouldn’t be too concerned about the White Sox, either…once we grab first place all to ourselves, I’m sure we’ll keep them in the rear-view mirror, where they belong!
“I’d much rather have an above average offence with a .220 avg w/RISP. ”
ummm.. what part of above average is associated with a .220 avg with RISP??
above average teams have avg with RISP that is also above average
this year’s Twin’s team is hitting over 40 points higher then their overall average that’s the point no team sustains such incredible efficiency with RISP for very long this would be a bigger miracle then the 2006 second half comeback
Actually thinking about Rob Neyer pisses me off. If you have Insider you can check his past blogs. From the start of the season in March Neyer has not written one positive column about the Twins.
In March he wrote the Twins should have traded Nathan and that would be the only way signing him would make sense.
He then talked about the division in early May about how the Indians were going to run away with it while the Twins had no chance. He then started ripping on Hernandez (ok) but included that the Twins were a 4th place team at best.
Finally when the Twins made their push he just ripped on the orginization for keeping Hernandez around and not brining up Liriano and then that they have been extrordinary lucky in that they are in the race. Okay on Hernandez but how about something positive?
You can check his articles and he gushes praise on the Red Sox. Bucholtz (who sucks!) was one of his favorites until June. Jon Lester don’t even get him started on him… Just really annoying for a Twins fan to always have to see Law & Neyer and to some extent Olney killing the Twins.
Coincidentally (or perhaps not so), it was the same umpire (Eddings) as the NOT TRAPPED 3rd strike in the ‘05 playoffs. It would not be so maddening if the umpires weren’t so afraid of being wrong. He’s just one player and there is video tape. I’m sure Eddings will spend the rest of the day insisting he was right. That guy should be replaced by replay.
It is smart baseball, even if it is AJ. It’s just that the calls are so blatantly wrong. Just as long as they “even it up” at a key point for them.
Sean, Rob is actually a Twins fan. Do you actually read his stuff?
I’ll re-type what I’ve typed before:
just because we disagree with someone does not mean:
you hate them
disagree with them on everything
think they are a bad person
Seriously, Neyer is generally very positive in his comments of the Twins in whole. He disagrees with specific decisions.
And, you are right. We should throw out over 100 years of statistical evidence and assume that the disparity in BA w/RISP will continue and that it isn’t either luck or a fluke. I mean, really, just because it has almost never happened in more than 100 years….
???
According to the Denver Post, the Rockies “will shop both” Garrett Atkins and Matt Holliday during the offseason and there’s “a growing likelihood that the odd man out will be” Atkins.
With Ian Stewart thriving at third base and Todd Helton still in the picture at first base, dealing Atkins would make sense. The newspaper suggests the Twins and Angels as being “a good fit” for Atkins. Atkins is under the Rockies’ control through 2010, while Holliday can become a free agent after next season.
Source: Denver Post
I’ve read Neyer’s stuff on and off for years. Some years he’s high on them (and picks them to win it all) and some years he’s not.
Was anyone who wasn’t a Twins fan high on this team early this year?
Howard,
I’m not sure if this was written already but the Twins actually have 7 games against the Mariners and Oakland. The Twins have a 4 game series against the A’s starting on Thursday.
The Twins don’t have the big boppers like the Yankees, Red Sox, White Sox, Angels, etc… do and the national media doesn’t like to watch two singles, a walk and two sac flies add up to two runs when they can watch one swing do that.
stop with the ESPN and CO hates the Twins that is such garbage.. the “MN sports inferiority complex” needs to die a quick death.. Buster Onley gushes about the Twins all the time and ESPN has continually written positive articles on Twins and how they “do things the right way” “get after it/grind it out” personally I think they gush too much on a team that has won 1 playoff series in 17 years - maybe the “right way” is really wrong?
..the Rays collection of relievers couldn’t hold a one-run lead in the ninth at Chicago, in part due to the nefarious AJ Pierzynski.
AJ had nothing to do (really!) with the ninth, his nefariousness occurred in the 10th. I give credit to AJ, he has an uncanny ability to think on his feet.
I thought the following was a better explanation of why the play was NOT obstruction. If AJ had not put his arm up, there would be no obstruction. I think it’s similar to the “flopping” controversy in the NBA — the umps should have called shenanigans and they embarrassed themselves and MLB by not doing so…
“As a runner, you’re allowed to do that,” third-base umpire Ted Barrett said. “What Doug ruled at second base was, even though A.J. did kind of stick his arm out to make contact, Aybar was still in his way. So A.J., if he would have turned, he wouldn’t have been able to continue on to third. So after making the throw, Aybar is no longer in the act of fielding and he can’t obstruct the runner, which is what Doug ruled happened. And in a rundown, even though A.J. was going back to second, the rule of obstruction during a rundown is he gets his next advanced base and that’s why he was rewarded third base.”
I am pretty sure if the play had negatively impacted Chicago, Boston or New York, there already would be a Congressional investigation underway. But since it potentially helped the B-Word Sox, the East Coast B-Word Sox and the MFY, it’s no big deal, right?
If a Twin had done what AJ did, forcing the umps to interpret a rule and trying something to avoid a certain out, it would have been brilliant baseball.
I’d have to disagree here Howard. While it’s nice to occasionally be on the RECIEVING end of a blown call, I’ll never credit a player for something the umps handed to him.
Dumb umps make bush-league plays seem smart. Such as A-Rod’s “Hey listen!” while running past the Toronto 3B last year. At least they got the right call on “The Slap” in the 04 playoffs.
Rob Neyer is not a Twins fan. He is a Royals fan sort of. And he hasn’t written anything good about them this season at all hands down. Send me something positive that he wrote this year I beg you. Its not there.
The Twins always hit well with RISP. It draws the fielders out of position and they don’t strikeout often. They put the ball in play and have a lot of speed and get a lot of infield hits. This is a big reason for their RISP. Obviously some is luck, but instead of just saying the Twins are lucky (extrordinarily) how about the Twins have awesome starting pitching?
I don’t think I said that Neyer and Law were bad people… Just idiots and yes they have a lot of East coast bias. It’s REAL obvious. Bill James, Rob Neyers guy works for the Boston Red Sox. He is the guy behind sabermetrics.
I think it is a conspiracy against small market teams to make sure everyone knows only large market teams matter 
And yes ESPN as a whole give the Twins some nice ‘fluff’ pieces. Jason Stark is pretty friendly to them but not the insiders. No way.
I thought the following was a better explanation of why the play was NOT obstruction.
I read that Fran, and that explanation only makes things more confusing. Especially when it starts with: “..even though A.J. did kind of stick his arm out to make contact…”
Right there its over. AJ made contact with the fielder of his own accord. The umps even acknolwedge it.
All four should be fined and suspended for at least a series.
Just another example I bring to the table: Keith Law just said in his last chat that besides Liriano all the Twins starters are #4 or #5 starters at best.
That’s totally garbage. He was talking about raw stuff but Slowey and Baker have pretty good stuff overall. I doubt any of them besides maybe Blackburn would be a #4 or #5 based on stuff. And then why even bring it up? The Twins starters are rocking this year and are playing above that statement.
“The Twins always hit well with RISP. It draws the fielders out of position and they don’t strikeout often. They put the ball in play and have a lot of speed and get a lot of infield hits. This is a big reason for their RISP. Obviously some is luck, but instead of just saying the Twins are lucky (extrordinarily) how about the Twins have awesome starting pitching?”
what does their starting pitching have to do with luck causing a super inflated avg W/RISP??
Anyone else think that since the starters do bullpen sessions between starts that they could be available for one inning of work i.e. Baker Saturday night, Perkins Sunday afternoon?
Twins “fan” not in the sense it is the team he roots for, but “fan” in the sense that he is generally complimentary of the organization. That my not be as true this year, but in previous years when I had an insider subscription he was.
I don’t know why you or anyone else cares about how they are covered anyway. Why would his position make you mad? Rob Neyer can be accused of alot of things, but East Coast bias is not one of them.
even if the Twins DO win the divsion, we can see we willl be in trouble when going against the Angels and Rays, leave alone the Bosox
Sean, he brought it up because he was asked what he thought about those Twins’ starters. He’s been very consistent with that answer throughout the year, btw. That has been his opinion all year. He’s the kind of guy where less than 1 year of data will not change his mind.
Sean Law is right on be objective the only Twin’s starter with great raw strike em out stuff is Liriano.. Baker I think is a little better then 4/5 maybe a #2 or #3 Perkins/Slowly/Blackburn all pitch to contact and hope the DEF bails them out
their margin for error is so slight if they are not perfect well then games like Blackburn had against the Angels is what happens.. the collective group is still good but this rotation is not the Braves of the early 90’s
the AJ elbow thing shouldn’t have mattered anyways…he stepped into the infield grass which is out of the base path, and even though the flopping was totally ridiculous, he was out no matter what.
though it really shouldn’t have mattered if the Rays didn’t have a terrible catcher behind the plate…all he had to do is catch a ball that hit him square in the glove and wait for Brian Anderson to walk into the out at home.
After reading the Barrett comments, it is clear they know it was an incorrect call and had time to think something up. It is also interesting to know that umpires make calls based on what a player “may have done”, not what actually occurred. AJ did not try to go back to third. Had he actually done so and Barrett’s premise actually occurred, perhaps there would have been an interference call there.
Using that argument, Gomez should have been granted that catch, since I’m sure he could have caught it if he took a different route to the ball.
What I continue to be baffled by is that after AJ has pretty much admitted he threw it up to see if it would stick, the umpires are still trying to justify it.
Ben, I’m glad someone finally said it. Regardless of the elbow obstruction that happened, he stepped out of the base path. It ends there. He should’ve been out.
I love the “MN Sports Inferiority Complex.” It’s actually quite humorous. I was in that camp for awhile, but now I find it laughable. Buster Olney loves the Twins. Tim Kurkjain, when he writes articles, usually puts out a few articles about the Twins. Neyer in a recent chat about MVP candidates made a point to bring up Morneau even though the chat was about Quentin/Hamilton. Law is an idiot, and I don’t read his stuff.
But overall, I think we get a pretty solid amount of coverage positive/negative on our teams. Especially based on our market and location.
Slowey has a K rate per 9 in the 7 range same as Baker. With his pin-point control and slightly above average breaking ball and fast ball I think you can say he is a #2 or #3 guy. Probably another Radke. Baker has a really good fastball and I would say #2 or #3. Perkins and Blackburn might be around the #4 or #5 based on raw stuff but they aren’t pitching like it.
RISP and the Starting pitching doesn’t relate. I was just saying why can’t Neyer instead of writing his blog about the Twins just being lucky after they take over 1st place write about how good the Twins starting pitching is? Or something else?
I don’t think the Twins are lucky this team is a lot like 02, 03 & 04. Those were good teams.
And yes Rob Neyer is all Red Sox. Maybe he should be because they go by Sabermetrics. Bill James works for the Sox and is one of the top sabermetrics guys around.
The Twins orginization is old school- play the game the right way. They don’t do sabermetrics.
There’s no doubt in my mind that ESPN is out to get Minnesota teams, including the Twins.
Basically, if it involves us, it either gets ignored or it gets criticized.
We’ll just have to do it without them!
Liriano has #1 stuff
Baker/Slowman have 2 to 3 stuff
Perkins/Blackburn 4-5 stuff
looks like the rotation sets into place.
Perkins and Blackburns #s as a 4 or 5 beat most any other 4 or 5 in the league
I’ll go even one step further there Jason.
Minnesota teams only get prime time Nationally televised games against big teams, because it futhers ESPN’s plan to expose them as bad teams. I would say they are essentially mocking us. If they really cared about the Twins, they would show our games against the Royals.
I tell you what though, FSN North has a huge midwest bias. I swear, I only see Twins games on that channel. It’s getting redundant.
You think so, Rotoblinders?
I think FSN North just objectively picks the best game each night, and it so happens to usually involve the Twins. It may seem unbalanced to some, but at least they utilize objective commentators for the telecast, which balances out any appearance of bias on the part of the network.
I get pissed watching the YES Network. They are so Yankees biased. 
The bullpen may have collapsed on Sunday, but the lack of hustle by Kubel in the 8th inning, allowing runners to get to 2nd and third instead of first and second, was disappointing for a team in first place. That cost the Twins a run and possibly the game. Fortunately Gardy did notice and commented on it in the paper. Some bench time should prevent another occurance of that.
it’s nice that the FSN announcers stay even keel and never get excited to the point of calling an infield fly a potential towering HR blast
Bob,
We can’t afford to be benching great hitters like Jason Kubel. He’s our normal DH anyway, so I think it would be good enough just to confine him to that role…no need to bench the guy, Gardy does enough of that as it is.
Kubes against Seattle is going to be a very bad recipe for the M’s!!!
Jason,
with how bad the Sailor’s pitching is a blind man with no arms could hit well against them
The Whities start a suspended home game in the 12th on the road in baltimore. Hopefully they get a cheap loss, not a cheap win.
is tickets being sold for this? or is fake crowd noise being pumped into the ballpark?
it’s nice that the FSN announcers stay even keel and never get excited to the point of calling an infield fly a potential towering HR blast
True, but just once I wish they’d refer to themselves as part of the team their calling games for. Afterall, they’re just as important to the playoff push as the men on the roster…right?
And if they really want to seem more professional, they should definately point out mistakes the umpire makes (in the opposing team’s favor) and drill them home over the course of the next 4-5 innings.
That certainly never gets tiring.
I love the “MN Sports Inferiority Complex.” It’s actually quite humorous.
While I think that comlex exists in some fans, that doesn’t make it a legitimate coverall for any complaints regarding inconsistent calls or poor strikezones.
My guess is they will fill the seats with the homeless and traveling hobos. It should make for a fairly exciting 25 minutes. They will then be allowed to use the clubhouse showers after the players leave and AJ is done dying his hair turqoise.
My guess is they will fill the seats with the homeless and traveling hobos.
So basically…the typical Sox fanbase?
*RUNS FAST*
The lob, and T connects. I was hoping for that exact response. My self worth has now peaked.
I’ll take a split with the Angels playing in Anaheim while the White Sox lose 2 of 3 with the Rays playing in Chicago any time.
Shawn,
just about right, but I don’t think that Liriano has #1 stuff *now*… He had it in the past and maybe in the future. Give the arm enough rest in the off season and 3-4 mph velocity gain in the fast ball and slider and he will have #1 stuff.
Slowey’s control and location is close to a #1 starter
The lob, and T connects. I was hoping for that exact response.
When I see a good pitch, I swing for the fences. 
I am listening to Howard on the radio now on MPR. (I usually dont listen to NPR).
He is saying that cuddyer will sit on the bench when he comes back, I agree.
Howard does not sound like I thought he would
PS: For anybody who still wants to call DnB homers, go ahead and watch the replay of the AJ play via the hometeam’s website.
I ran into IE bugs towards the end, but for the most part it’s Hawk moaning about how AJ got into a run down.
Then Hawk moaning when AJs tagged out because of poor baserunning.
Then Hawk stating how dumb Tampa was and how obvious the interference was once the call is made.
And I’ll also add.
Then Hawk boasting how smart of a runner AJ is for “trying to make contact”.
His words. Not mine.
Well comparing DnB to Hawk and DJ in terms of Homerism is like trying to compare Dane Cook to Seinfeld in level of Hilarity. The bar is set way too high to begin with.
Coaches and players in any sports always like to say it’s about who or what’s next. This is a perfect way to describe how Twins fans should view this Angels series, thru the lens of what happens next. If the Twins go on to win their next three series and post a winning road trip than it will be a split with little regret (large picture regrets not little one’s diesecting the game that we all will feel no matter what happens). But should they lay an egg in Seattle or Oakland or Toronto and return home having lost more games in the standings, momentuem and possibly all faith in the non-Nathan portion of the bullpen, then these two losses will become huge and eat away at us all.
At least they went down throwing fastballs right Gardy? Not like you’d want Chad Bradford inducing groundballs in the 8th. Problem with (bad)fastball pitchers is when they get hit the ball tends to go very far very fast.
Enjoy your work Howard, Joe and LaVelle.
Good luck in Seattle Twins!
Hawk vs Dane Cook? Hawk is terrible, but not THAT terrible.
They are probably equally as nauseating.
i can’t believe someone above said the twins have a below average offense. maybe power wise, but average wise (with risp excluded) they have span, casilla, mauer, morneau, buscher, ruiz (limited ab’s) all above .300 with punto, young, kubel around .270-.280 range. find me another offense with that sort of depth. the twins have scored 9 less runs than the almighty powerful white sox.
I haven’t read all the posts here, but for those of you that have seen AJ’s falling act video from last night have to agree that the ump totally blew that call. AJ should have gotten fined for so blatantly faking being interfered with…
AJ has a knack for getting away with stuff. Just like against Anaheim.
Well regardless of the interference, I still claim he’s out because he touched the grass. Out of the baseline cannot be interpreted.
I give AJ big props for his BS. It helps his team win games. If he can talk the umps into falling for it, you can’t blame him. It’s the ump’s fault, not his.
the umps were paid off by ESPN to make sure the small market teams are kept down
hmmm, they should fire Neyer for ripping it then.
Hawk sucks. I hate his “he gone” and “You can put in on the board…YES” crap.
I wonder what would happen if DJ didn’t shout “YES” with Hawk?
You’re right Gus. Also, what’s the big deal with Bonds possibly doping. If he can avoid being tested positively, you can’t blame him right?
It’s MLB’s fault he cheats. Not his.
Dang, I can’t believe the persecution complex of Minnesota fans. Yes, ESPN essentially ignores the Twins, but they do the same for anyone but the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, and sometimes the Cubs and Cards. You just have to read or listen to the better announcers/writers. Gammons had a few nice, knowledgeable comments on the Twins the other night.
I hear the same thing from Vikings fans. People still haven’t gotten over the Drew Pearson interference on Nate Wright in the NFC title game in the ’70s.
T, you could make that argument (not that I would). Doing whatever it takes to win is a time-honored tradition. Does Gaylord Perry belong in the HOF? He obviously cheated, and his cheating helped him win Cy Young awards in each league. Where do you draw the line? If a player knows he’s out, but the ump calls him safe, does the player have an obligation to tell the ump he made the wrong call?
I think the AJ hate is at best misguided by Twin fans. this guy played great for us, he brought in the heist of the century and perhaps last century.. maybe fans are jealous because he is one player that left and then got a WS ring while performing at a high level
So gus where do you draw the line on cheating. If i guy fails to tag up on a sac file but the umps miss it and he doesn’t say anything is that cheating?
I have never been a punto hater like a lot of people on this site, nor am I a punto lover. In my opinion, he is a great defensive player. I hope they give him a 3-4 yr contract this off-season and make him the starting short-stop. Bat him 8 or 9 in the batting order and let him play everyday. People hate him because he wasa batting second when Casilla was hurt and he is not a good two hole hitter. Trust me he would be a great short-stop and whatever he gives you with the bat is a bonus.
I don’t understand why gardy hesitates to use Nathan in the 8th in certain situations–particularly when he hasn’t pitched the prior day. Jenks goes to 2 innings for the Sox and they win. Nathan never sees the mound Sunday and Twins lose. If he doesn’t want him to go 2 innings, at least have him face the heart of the order in the 8th and then take your chances with another reliever to face the bottom of the order in the 9th.
“I hope they give him a 3-4 yr contract this off-season and make him the starting short-stop. Bat him 8 or 9 in the batting order and let him play everyday”
LNP is going to be 31 he is a career .251 hitter .978 at SS but has slipped to .974 the past 2 years he is not a starting player especially for a team that has such a lack of production from 3rd,SS, and CF already
BC, I’m not sure. That’s kind of what I’m saying. You could indeed make the argument that leaving early on a sac fly and getting away with it is cheating. T equated AJ’s antics with steroid use. I’d say that’s a little extreme, but where is the line drawn between “good cheating” and “bad cheating?” Gaylord Perry made a career and wrote a book detailing his cheating. Personally, I love Perry, and I do think he belongs in the Hall. I think steroid use is on another ethical level. I think most baseball people would consider what AJ did a heads up, smart play since he got away with it, and it helped his team win. That kind of stuff has traditionally been considered part of the game. T’s argument seems to be that cheating is cheating, and there’s no gray area. Not that AJ’s BS doesn’t p*** me off.
A runner is out for running out of the baseline ONLY IF it is done to avoid a tag.
Baserunners (trapped in a rundown) are taught to initiate contact with any fielder (without the ball) who allows himself to get close to the baserunner. Aybar was careless on that play, and AJ did what many players are instructed to do in practice.
Don’t believe me?
Ask someone else who has played baseball at a higher level or for a good coach.
I’m with you then there are a lot of grey areas indeed. The problem with Gaylords type of cheating is that kind of thing has been going on since baseball was invented. It’s just like corked bats or pine tar there isn’t a single player who doesn’t want to find an edge.
I have the opposite view, gus. I think spit balling is a bigger cheat than is steroids. In game cheating is much bigger, to me, than trying to make your body do more than it naturally could/should.
It’s a tough line. I think players are in no requirement to let an ump knew they blew a call. But, they should not try to have the ump blow a call in their favor either. When Chris Carter got up and tried to show that he caught it, when he knew he didn’t, he was cheating. When he didn’t argue a call that went his way, he was not cheating. That’s always been my perspective.
ideally, this wouldn’t be an issue at all, but given the human element of judging/reffing/umping, it is. That is one of the beauties of gold, there are rules, and little judgement is needed, so golfers call penalties on themselves. I love that.
Chicago White Sox play two games today with that suspended extra innings game. The twins better win or they might be 2 games back tomorrow morning.
They also might be one game up if they win also…
gold s/b golf, man, I cannot type today….
Folks were saying the batting average with RISP was unsustainable two months ago when it was .310. There’s a month left. It’s been sustained for five already. Just saying.
Unfortunately for the twins, the first white sox player to bat is carlos quentin…
actually 2 months ago RISP was .327 it has been steadly falling the past 2 months current at .313
doug,
“Folks were saying the batting average with RISP was unsustainable two months ago when it was .310. There’s a month left. It’s been sustained for five already.”
Those folks may not realize the skill involved in hitting with RISP. They may have never seen a team practice situational hitting which many HS and college teams do every practice.
Repetitions replace luck with skill when you practice:
1) Hitting behind runners on 1B or 2B.
2) Hitting hard up the middle with runners at 3B and less than one out.
3) All the other “get ‘em over” and “get’em in” tactics that make BA with RISP more than the “luck” of a random occurence probability.
Baserunners (trapped in a rundown) are taught to initiate contact with any fielder (without the ball) who allows himself to get close to the baserunner. Aybar was careless on that play, and AJ did what many players are instructed to do in practice.
Sane…have you watched the play? Aybar had the ball a split second before the contact and was trying to avoid the runner. He did nothing wrong. AJ was not obstructed in any manner until *he* created the contact. The umpires have acknowledged this and that means there was no obstruction. This should have been a “no call.”
What AJ or others may have been taught or instructed to do is irrelevant. Players are instructed on the hidden ball trick, too. Doesn’t mean the umpires are required to buy into the play. The careless party here was not Aybar. It was the ump who exercised poor judgment and no common sense whatsoever. He embarrassed himself and the ensuing defense of the indefensible only extends the embarrassment.
David Weathers cleared waivers last week, he’s been pitching faily well and would be greatly needed help for the bull pen. Do you think the Twins could work out a deal for him, it should not cost to much.
mike wants wins, good, interesting arguments. I don’t disagree with you, really, but I did get a kick out of Perry. He was hilarious to watch, and I think people like a lovable rogue who gets away with something. I think the human element with all the judgement calls is one of the things I love about baseball. When they implement instant replay (and make no mistake, the recent agreement on home runs is just the beginning), I think the game will get slightly less interesting. I’m kind of old-fashioned that way, though. I still hate the DH
Twins could trade for Gagme
David says:
August 25th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
David Weathers cleared waivers last week, he’s been pitching faily well and would be greatly needed help for the bull pen. Do you think the Twins could work out a deal for him, it should not cost to much.
David: They’ve already passed on guys with better numbers, so I would guess they won’t go after him. I can tell you what the FO’s response would be if asked:
a) We do not view him as an upgrade.
b) They asked for too much in return for us to make a move.
c) Some combination of a and b
gatty790 says:
August 25th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Twins could trade for Gagme
Gatty- again…
a) We do not view him as an upgrade.
b) They asked for too much in return for us to make a move.
c) Some combination of a and b
Markinmn
Thank you captain obvious
I don’t think anyone wants Gagme…
Gatty-
I’m just playing with you…my point is that there should be a stamp with those phrases since we hear them from the FO is almost every situation…except when they make a very confusing claim on Washburn…
the washburn deal would have been a disaster…
gatty790 says:
August 25th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
the washburn deal would have been a disaster…
I know…and people think Punto is overpaid…
Fran,
I saw the play real-time and in replays.
AJ’s actions were borderline or slightly “over the line”.
I don’t think Aybar made a good enough effort to avoid contact after his throw. If he was THAT close to AJ when he made his throw, he should have tagged AJ. (Unless AJ was quicker than Aybar - not likely)
That being said; As an umpire, I WOULD NEVER HAVE MADE THAT CALL. It’s just looking for trouble… and he found it.
What I think folks are ignoring here is A.J. was also 3-for-5 in the game and is now batting .299.
You can hate on A.J. all you want, but he’s one of the main reasons the White Sox are where they are.
“As soon as A.J. tripped, he yelled ‘Obstruction.’ I looked at the umpire, thinking he was going to say something like, ‘Are you kidding me?’ And [the ump] was like, ‘Yep, yep, yep.’”
– Rays shortstop Jason Bartlett, on the rundown play Sunday involving White Sox catcher A.J. Pierzynski, who admittedly initiated contact with Tampa Bay third baseman Willy Aybar
a little tibbit for si
a little tidbit from si, I must be intoxicated without my knowledge or something…
Fire: The difference in audience between ESPN and FSN is orders of magnitude.
ESPN has long determined the order and prominence of its content based on the size of the expectant audience. It then promotes itself based on this. For example, the Twins only get on the home page if they play a team in a top 5 market (regardless of record or whether a certain Cy Young probable is pitching or etc.). If you paid attention, you would know that.
I’m not saying it’s the wrong thing to do. They’re in business to make money, not to publish the most important content for baseball fans. And it’s not just the Twins, it’s every other team not located in a top five media market (NY, LA, Boston, Chicago, SF Bay area). To dismiss this easily proven fact out of hand by calling it an inferiority complex proves your ignorance.
Buscher did have a terrible game Sat. But the lost Sun can’t be blamed on him. Bullpen failure. Punto did make some great defensive stops. Credit to him and his hitting.
Gomez having trouble fielding the ball. Should have been a error on him Sat also. What’s with the straight back back pedaling? Spand would have caught the ball.
Buscher has been playing well of late until the last couple of games…..
What up?
Span(d) may have caught the ball. He has also let a ball bounce out of his glove for a HR, so he isn’t the perfect fielder
“As soon as A.J. tripped, he yelled ‘Obstruction.’ I looked at the umpire, thinking he was going to say something like, ‘Are you kidding me?’ And [the ump] was like, ‘Yep, yep, yep.’”
I agree it was a totally bad call, but to be fair, the ump signaled interference before A.J. made his plea…
Question: What does this play have in common with the A.J. running to first play against the Angels in the ‘05 playoffs?
Well, two things actually…for one, Doug Eddings was involved in both plays…but for two, A.J. immediately reacted in a way that sold the call.
What I’m saying is this–how do you fault A.J. for making a heads-up play that could potentially help his team…any other player in baseball would do the same thing if given the opportunity to be so heady on the spot. Some are making it seem like the right thing for A.J. to do in each case would’ve been to turn to the ump and say ‘the fair thing here is to call me out, sir.’
From the “ask anyone who’s played” files…ask anyone who’s played if that’s something they would do or are taught to do.
Twins are going to win tonight, baby! Positivity still in full-force…Twins win, Sox lose two…Twins will take over first place and keep it for a long, long time (maybe three days even)!!!!!
Let’s go Twins…
Two hits for Punto…hoooray
Mauer extends hitting streak…hooooray
Morneau gets No. 21….hooooray
Three Run Jack announces his presence with authority…..hoooooray
Kubel continues his hot hitting (against the Mariners)…hoooooray
Bullpen needed only to mop up a huge lead…hooooooray!!!!
How long is Gardy going to keep trotting Gomez out there to give away outs and take confused routes to batted balls, with the Twins in a heated pennant race? I realize Jason Kubel isn’t exactly spectacular in the field, but he is a serviceable outfielder (yesterday notwithstanding; everyone has off days), and can hit. How long till the outfield is reshuffled, and Span moving to center, and Kubel going to right, and Ruiz and Lamb splitting DH duties? Can you imagine (and would you want) Gomez batting in a crucial situation in the playoffs?
Gomez appears to be avoiding head-on wall collisions (healthwise-not that bad an idea) but the Twins are used to Torii who was fearless.
I also think two factors are:
1) Gomez’s earlier face plants and
2) his lack of familiarity with wall placement.
anyone know when the makeup game for W. Sox is starting? I can’t find a reference to it so far…
Fire
6:05 eastern
John Q,
We saw Span botch a ball that was easier than that in right field at the Dome just last series. I’m not making excuses for Gomez, both could have and probably should have been caught, but they were tough plays… both rockets hit off Vlad’s bat, and Gomez had to battle the sun yesterday.
Buscher hasn’t “played well” in the field all season. Aside from maybe Miguel Cabrera (who the Tigers had to move to first for defensive reasons), I can’t name a worse-fielding 3B in baseball.
I just wish the Twins could find a happy medium. It’s a moot point while Punto’s wearing his glass slippers, but when the clock strikes 12:00 and he turns back into a pumpkin at the plate, then we’re back to either having a .220 hitter at 3B or a guy who can hit .300-ish but has the defensive capability of a stop sign.
For now, yes, Punto should be at third base, but if the Twins don’t go out and make some kind of move to solidify third base in the offseason, they’re repeating the same mistake they did following 2006, and it’ll be worse this time, because we’ve watched it haunt us for two years since.
Garrett Atkins will be on the market. We’ve got money now. Go get him, and lock him up for 3-4 years, move Casilla to SS, put Hughes at 2B, and have Harris as your utility guy.
Unrealistic, pipe dream, wishful thinking, etc. But man, does that make our offense look good for the next several years…
Hmmm…nobody pointed out the easy line drive that went off Punto’s glove (I forget the inning) that was scored a hit and then the Angels SS gets an error on a pop-up that had him twisting and turning and deling with the sun.
FIRE,
Its on.
3-3, both teams scored in the 11th.
See mlb.com scoreboard
Pat Reusse absolutely destroyed Carlos Gomez on the radio yesterday morning…
he basically said Go-go was a clueless baseball player and that he has never seen anyone more lost in all his days of covering MLB…he predicted Go-go would spend all of 2009 in AAA, other than September…
I’m not sure where I stand on this…we’ve seen a lot of feeble hitters get regular playing time for us the last couple years…and at the end of the day, Gomez does find a way to get on base and he has occasional power. Obviously, Denard Span is a more polished player at this point, so when / if Cuddy comes back, it seems like sending Gomez to the bench would be the appropriate move.
So would getting rid of the Astros…something that probably should have been in the works long ago.
That said….
I love the Houston Express!!! Start Lamb tonight, Gardy…I have a feeling he’s due!
Punto will have a three-hit game…put him in the two-hole!
Brendan Harris can wait his turn….we need our power lefties in there tonight!
Morneau / Kubel will combine for 7 RBI tonight, minimum!
Should prove interesting Balt/ChiSox:
Article in Washington Post this morning regarding both players who had left the game and thus not eligible to return, and changes of roster since, that Balt have 3 players left who can enter the game, and 1 or 2 MUST replace, due to DL (Jones) AAA (Fayhey), I think they have only one player left. Don’t know about Sox.
Regards,
Jason
AJ is like a guy that flops, whines, and draws charges alot in the NBA. If he’s not on your team, you hate his guts. If he’s on your team, your glad to have him. Also, AJ is a cocky a-hole, which does not help matters.
FIRE,
Sorry.
I think I was decribing what happened on April 28.
thanks sane.. does the scoreboard update automatically? I never follow games on MLB.COM
You’ve got to be kidding,
I don’t love the idea of Gomez batting in any crucial spots, but are you really suggesting that a guy with 40 MLB ABs (Ruiz) and Mike Lamb are much better options?
K-Rod completely owned Lamb both times he was called on to pinch-hit for Gomez because Gomez “couldn’t handle” K-Rod.
I’m not saying Gomez would have done much better, but I’d rather have him in CF and Span in right than putting Kubel out there every day.
I’d actually rather see Span in left where there’s more ground to cover, moving Delmon and his cannon over to right, but oh well.
Aside from this series, Gomez has shown tremendous range in center field and made his share of great catches to go along with blunders.
It’s unfortunate for fans (and for Gomez) that we’re watching him learn from and make the same mistakes that most guys make when they’re in AAA, but the Twins feel the need to show that we got something for Santana. Gomez is young, and can be an exciting player to watch. Realistically, he’d be better suited to have some time to develop in a situation without so much pressure, where he’s not under the microscope all the time, but that’s not his fault.
All things considered, he’s pretty close to what I expected out of him. My friend and I predicted each of the Twins’ stats for this season prior to opening day, and I predicted a .266 average for Gomez with 9 HR, 35 SB, and 51 RBI.
Is he frustrating? Of course. But he’s pretty much right about what I expected. If he’s still doing this in two years… then we’ve got trouble.
FIRE,
MLB.com is a better place to follow games than ESPN, in my opinion. Their Gameday Play-By-Play is a great feature when you want to follow a game you can’t see, and I think it’s faster and superior to ESPN’s Gamecast.
Check it out sometime. I really like it.
FIRE, Steve,
I also recommend mlb.com Gameday.
Jason says
and at the end of the day, Gomez does find a way to get on base
Umm… Most days, I don’t think Gomez does find his way on base. I think that, more than anything else, is the problem. His problems going back to get a ball in the outfield would be easily compensated for with his ability to cover ground in the gaps, if he could hit. But when a player’s speed is his only ability that can be consistantly counted on, that player should not be starting for a contending team. There is a time to build a player and have a player learn the game, and this aint it.
Steve
Right now, i would rather see ruiz and lamb bat, rather than gomez, 100 times out of 100.
If a player knows he’s out, but the ump calls him safe, does the player have an obligation to tell the ump he made the wrong call?
Big difference.
If a pitch comes inside and I think it hit me, I’ll start taking my base until the ump says otherwise.
It’s a completely different story if I decide I to step out over the plate and into the pitch.
AJ didn’t brush the fielder and sell the contact. AJ MADE the contact and sold that it wasn’t his fault.
That’s the difference. And the ump was a moron for falling for it. Just because an ump doesn’t see it doesn’t make it any less bush league.
It’s just like A-Rod’s slap in the 2004 ALCS (which was caught), or A-Rod shouting as he ran past the Toronto 3B last year (which wasn’t).
YGTBKM,
i have a 2002 ESPN Mag article on the Twins the quote “If he’s not on your team, you hate his guts. If he’s on your team, your glad to have him.” is almost exactly wht teamates were saying about him back then.
After Lamb doing nothing in his PH Saturday vs. K-rod, i could have gone either way about him or Gomez yesterday. IF the lead had been 1 run, i’d have kept gomez in to bunt.
can we assume that Twin’s F.O. and Gardy are keeping NOGO with the “big club” because they realistical still think this team is surprising a factor in a playoff race in a rebuilding project… also why Billy did not go “all in” and trade for Beltre and a bullpen arm to replace Neshek
Pat Reusse absolutely destroyed Carlos Gomez on the radio yesterday morning…
And Gomez will go on a 10 game hitting streak at some point this year and Reusse will call him the second coming of Puckett.
Heck, I bet I could go back and find one where Reusse was singing Gomez’s praises…possibly even over Span.
T,
Reusse had an article in June about how popular and what a good kid with a bright future Gomez is.
The English language is a challange
T…I see absolutely no distinction…you try to sell the play any way you can…if the ump’s too dumb to figure out what happened, that’s his (and the other team’s) loss and your gain.
There’s no difference between trying to sell a call you know you didn’t deserve and doing something affirmatively (like lean into a pitch) to sell a call you didn’t deserve.
Are you saying small hitters shouldn’t crouch low to get a letter-high pitch called a ball?
Fire,
the Mariners probably wanted Blackburn and Span for Beltre… they had very high demands on all fo there guys.
what about when a catcher tries to ‘frame’ a pitch that was out of the strike zone?
Is that Bush-league too?
is pulling Ron Gant off 1B bush league?
I’m not saying you’re wrong to prefer Ruiz and Lamb over him either, just to be clear. I don’t disagree with Gardy’s decision to pinch-hit Lamb against K-Rod both times. I do feel, however, that none of the three are great options in that spot, which was my main point.
When it comes down to it, the Twins are winning a surprising amount of games, despite Gomez’s struggles. And while it’s easy to say that his struggles have cost us, he’s also saved a game or two with a few dives in center field that another CF (Span included) likely would not have gotten to.
If we had an overwhelmingly better option at AAA or something (as was the case in the Livan/Liriano debate), I would agree with you. However, I think that right now, despite Ruiz’s limited success thus far, I’d rather see Young/Gomez/Span in the OF with Kubel at DH.
how many teams have a better #9 guy than Gomez?
I think that Gomez does have a bright future, but he should not be starting right now.
Also, sure, lamb looked foolish against K-Rod, but so have many others. I give Lamb and Ruiz the nod over Gomez because of their experience. Sure, Ruiz’s experience is minor league experience, but he has 10 years of it, so he must have learned something. also, lamb has been a productive hitter every year of his career, with the exception of this year. starrted the year in a slump, and never got a chance to hit out of it.
FIRE,
I think you are correct about Bill Smith. Although I think a Morneau, Mauer & Liriano offer could have gotten Beltre…since Beltre GUARANTEES a World Series win.
Regards,
I do think most of you are missing the point on this AJ thing….you know what a lot of guys in AJ’s position would have done…they would have walked into the tag about two throws into the rundown and accepted defeat…AJ hustled it out and successfully sold the ump on a cheap interference call…so what?
You want to rip a guy for doing something disgraceful on the field….rip the guy who stares down a long fly ball (BJ Upton) or doesn’t run out a grounder. That’s the guy who deserves to be chided, in my mind.
As absurd as it sounds, Shawn’s probably right about the price for Beltre. And if not Span, someone like Hughes as well as another mid-level prospect.
It sounds outrageous to be asking for Blackburn, Hughes/Span, and Delaney or something along those lines, but that could very well have been the case.
These are the guys who were trying to get us to give them a starter in addition to taking on Jarrod Washburn’s horrific contract.
I’d have loved to have seen Beltre, but I’m glad Billy didn’t break the bank for it.
“is pulling Ron Gant off 1B bush league?”
Exactly my point, Shawn. Well said.
Shawn
That’s a poor argument. The debate is whether or not the Twins have a better option in-house.
I hate giving credit to AJ, but Jason’s right. He never should have been on second base, but a lot of the highlights don’t show that.
Upton lazily ran down a fly ball to center on the play beforehand, caught it with his back to the infield, and slowly turned around before realizing that AJ was tagging and was 3/4 of the way to second base already.
I hate AJ’s play, but you also have to give him credit for not giving up on a play like that, and criticize BJ Upton, who doesn’t seem to understand that he’s in a playoff race and needs to be playing his ass off from the first pitch to the final out every game.
Who is a better option in house to bat 9, play CF or RF if Span plays center.
Pridie? maybe, but doesn’t cover as much ground
Anyone else? no
Well done on AJ’s part, to recognize that Upton is a lazy player, and take advantage of said laziness when the oppurtunity presented itself.
The Rays first-baseman should he hollering “tagging-tagging-tagging!”
on the Upton play. (or “no-tag, no-tag,no-tag” if AJ is part-way to 2B)
So Upton is about 90% responsible for that play.
Dragon as usual you missed the point and continue to blow hot air
Sincerely,
Shawn
Uh, yeah. Jason Kubel and Delmon Young at the corners, I don’t care which plays where. I don’t care for giving away at bats because a player can run down the occasional ball in the gap. The trade off, in my opinion, is not worth it.
Just to add to the #9 hitter thought…
#9 hitters from yesterday’s AL games:
Coco Crisp
John McDonald
Ivan Rodriguez
Juan Castro
Jason Bartlett
Juan Uribe
Brandon Inge
Alberto Callaspo
Jeff Mathis
Cliff Pennington
Miguel Cairo
Andy Marte
Joaquin Arias
Looking at that list, I’d say two (Crisp and Pudge) are better than Gomez. Bartlett is more or less a push.
We don’t have a better in-house option really, and we’re better off than just about every team in the AL in terms of our 9-hitter. It’s just more noticeable in our lineup because of the lack of names leading up to him.
When it’s all said and done, I don’t think Gomez is as bad as people on these blogs make him out to be, but I also don’t think he’s necessarily an MLB-ready player. He’s got a lot to work out in his game, and I agree that now isn’t the best time or place for him to be going through a trial by fire, so to speak, but I don’t think the option of playing Kubel in right every day with Span in CF and Ruiz DHing would necessarily be an improvement either.
A major league outfielder should need to be told “tagging” to be reminded that the runner MIGHT tag in that situation, and therefore have himself in position to make a throw if necessary?
No. 100 times, no.
Sane,
Baseball Tonight clearly showed Carlos Pena frantically screaming to Upton in center field, which is basically the only thing that got his attention and made him turn around and throw it in.
Pena was doing his part.
Upton is really turning into a piece of crap.
I don’t think other team’s 9 hitters are relevant to the discussion, but since the list is here, i would take uribe, pudge, bartlett, crisp, marte, inge, and cairo, over gomez in the 9 hole.
The Twins just brought back Everyday Eddie… wow. There’s some 8th inning help! He’s put up good numbers so far this year.
Link, sorry:
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/08/sources-eddie-guardado-dealt-to-twins.html
maybe Rays have a culture of players that have behavior issues and tend to loaf? wasn’t that the tag on Young? he has displayed nothing but a great attitude and hustles since he has been with the Twins
the trade is in LEN3s blog
Steve
Maybe upton couldn’t hear Pena over the roar of the huge crowd at Tropica… oh, wait.
I do think most of you are missing the point on this AJ thing….you know what a lot of guys in AJ’s position would have done…they would have walked into the tag about two throws into the rundown and accepted defeat…AJ hustled it out and successfully sold the ump on a cheap interference call…so what
Jason, I agree AJ deserves props for recovering from a baserunning blunder with a smart baseball decision and I said so in my original comment. My beef is with Doug Eddings for his refusal to make a good, common sense call, with the rest of the umpires for upholding and defending Eddings’ blown call, and MLB for being so intimidated by the union that they won’t call the umps out on plays like that.
Marte is batting under .200.
Inge is at .209.
Cairo’s batting .240 and is 34 years old.
Juan Uribe is, and always has been, a crappy hitter and has no upside or potential for improvement.
Bartlett’s batting a whopping 13 points higher and has no home runs yet, and his plate discipline is going in the completely wrong direction. His OBP is only .309, which means he’s basically walking at the same rate as Gomez.
The only players there I take are Crisp and Pudge.
Fire
Also, don’t forget elijah dukes.
steve,
Thanks for info on Pena yelling.
That makes it 100% Upton.
Chief,
An MLB outfielder shouldn’t NEED the help from the 1B, but its called redundancy.
You may remember it from your USAF days.
You need two systems to f-ck up simultaneously, before………@#$%$$#@$%$!!!!!!!!!
An MLB outfielder shouldn’t NEED the help from the 1B, but its called redundancy.
I think it’s also just good, fundamental baseball, needed or not. Not really any different than the infielders signaling “two down” with their fingers after the second out is made, etc.
I think Upton may be one of those specical cases, though. ADD poster child.
There’s no difference between trying to sell a call you know you didn’t deserve…
Except that’s not my example. My example is the difference between THINKING you were hit and KNOWING you WEREN’T hit (or more specifically KNOWING you stepped into it). But 9 times out of 10 a HBP is called so fast that there’s really not much selling that needs to happen.
is pulling Ron Gant off 1B bush league?
Absolutely.
I was 7 at the time of that play. But to this day when discussing it with my dad neither of us really get what the ump saw.
Here’s the deal. If AJ, in the process of “battling his tail off” and “getting after it” bumps into the fielder and falls over…then it’s up to the ump if he’s out of the baseline or not. He can sell the call all he wants and I’m fine.
But if he REACHES OUT and FORCES CONTACT, then I have absolutely no respect for the move.
T, I’m glad you see the difference. I hope you also see the difference between what AJ did and Bonds’ steroid use.
I hope you also see the difference between what AJ did and Bonds’ steroid use.
I admit that wasn’t as good a comparison as there is available.
However, thanks to Jason and Shawn I’ve been able to come up with a better example (pulling Gant off the bag).
#9 hitters from yesterday’s AL games:
Coco Crisp
John McDonald
Ivan Rodriguez
Juan Castro
…
Wait. Step back. Castro’s back in the AL?
[…] Originally published by A Fan’s View […]
Sadly, for everyone who lives in Baltimore, yes T… Juan is indeed an Oriole.
Howard,
Boy were you a wet blanket about U of M sports today on MPR. You don’t know what you are talking about. Both FB and BB had highly rated recruiting classes this past year. They may not be great this year - but they are improving.
“Here’s the deal. If AJ, in the process of “battling his tail off” and “getting after it” bumps into the fielder and falls over…then it’s up to the ump if he’s out of the baseline or not. He can sell the call all he wants and I’m fine.
But if he REACHES OUT and FORCES CONTACT, then I have absolutely no respect for the move.”
Still no difference. Perhaps age 7 skewed your perspective a tad (for the record, I was a mature 12 at the time)…
What A.J. did and what Herbie did are the same…the same as a catcher “framing” a ball to get it called a strike or a batter like Ricky Henderson crouching down to get a pitch called a ball…
anyway you slice it, it’s doing something that you know is deceptive to get a close call to go your way…
So you say AJ acted alone? Wrong…if the fielder isn’t close enough for AJ to initiate contact, there’s no room for him to make that play. (Just as if Gant’s not dangling on the base, there’s no room for Herbie to make his play).
“Boy were you a wet blanket about U of M sports today on MPR.”
I didn’t hear it, but good for you Howard.
The football coach ran his mouth for 7 months about how excited we should all be, and then graced us with the worst season in school history.
Most Gopher football fans (not named Sid Hartman or Dave Mona) are tired of hearing about recruiting classes. All indications are the Gophers won’t be much better this year, which means it will be ‘09 or bust for Coach Brew.
To say that the 2008 Gophers will improve is kind of like saying it will be colder in December than it is here in August.
You’ve got to be kidding me:
So right about Gomez. The perfect storm of clueless at-bats & little league outfield skills. Twins brass can’t admit they got hosed by the Mets so he’s here to stay. Also, much as I dislike LNP, would rather see him play 3rd and send down Buscher.He can hit a little but his hands like 2×4’s are a liability at the hot corner.
I hate to sound conceited or arrogant, but I love to read posts by seemingly authoritative people here who have no idea of the difference between “to,” “two” and “too.” They just always use “to” and look liike idiots IMHO. If you want to be taken seriously, at least know when and how to use each of these. I am sure there are some easily-understood resources on the web one might tap into in order to brush up on this very simple spelling lesson.
And yes, I know it is not “liike.” LMAO
Hey all,
I spend the day at the Fair and come back to an interesting discussion and the bullpen help that I think I mentioned was a possibility on the MPR show.
A few quick things:
*AJ hacks me off but he did what he needed to do on that play, and it was up to the ump to make the right call. Also, the whole interference thing should have been moot, as a couple of people have pointed out, because he stepped on the infield grass early in the rundown.
*I would have deleted the all caps post if I’d seen it. Mike, please discovered ALL the uses of the shift and Caps Lock keys. Thanks.
*SBG makes a good point about run differential. That tells me the Angels usually are very much on top of things in close games. That’s why I like them in the World Series, as long as Torii doesn’t have too many clutch ABs.
*jama: You’re right about the Oakland thing - four games not three. My bad.
*Kevin: What DID you think I’d sound like? Wait, maybe you shouldn’t answer that.
*Bruce: I’m gonna be surprised if the Gopher football team wins 3 games and I don’t see an NCAA tournament bid for the men’s ballers. I guess I don’t believe the hype.
*johnny: I’m assuming you meant to comment of “people here who have no difference of the different AMONG “to,” “two” and “too.”
Enjoy the game tonight.
if the fielder isn’t close enough for AJ to initiate contact, there’s no room for him to make that play.
The fielder wasn’t close enough for contact. That’s why AJ reached out to make contact.
Just like a hitter stepping out over the plate to get hit by a pitch.
Sorry I threw your defense into disarray by not biting at the Hrbeck/Gant example. I know you were hoping I’d think that was legit.
Sorry I threw your defense into disarray by not biting at the Hrbeck/Gant example
It seems the spelling and grammar police are out in force tonight. Hrbeck? C’mon T, you’re better than that.
“if the fielder isn’t close enough for AJ to initiate contact, there’s no room for him to make that play.”
“The fielder wasn’t close enough for contact. That’s why AJ reached out to make contact.”
If the fielder isn’t close enough for AJ to initiate contact, THERE COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN CONTACT!
That couldn’t have been stated more clearly!
It seems the spelling and grammar police are out in force tonight.
If the only problem they can find in an argument is spelling and grammar, I think I’m doing alright.
Not to mention I at least got the “Hr” portion correct.
