Feeling a bit old today. Thanks, Eddie
Posted on August 26th, 2008 – 9:18 AMBy Howard
I’m feeling old today and it doesn’t have anything to do with making a full day of the State Fair yesterday. I did get all of the fair food groups — grease, sugar, meat, dairy — in their various forms, including a trip to the Big Fat Bacon stand that was mocked by other members of the posse — until they tried it. (State Fair math: Big Fat Bacon is only half as bad for you when other people eat half of it.)
And I’m not feeling old because the Twins opted for fielding gaffes and tired-looking bats last night and early this morning in their 11-inning loss to Seattle. I’m going to stay away from digging into the game because my late-night attention span was a bit wandering and, if I got started on some stuff, I could go on and on and on.
I’m feeling kind of old this morning because the last baseball game I covered was on July 4, 1993. I was an assistant sports editor at the time, new to the job, and decided it would be a nice thing to give the beat writers a day off. The Twins beat the Milwaukee Brewers 4-3 that day and the starting and winning pitcher, getting his first victory in the majors, was a young lefty named…
…Eddie Guardado.
Dave Winfield hit a two-run homer for the Twins that afternoon, Tom Brunansky played right field for Milwaukee and Rick Aguilera came in to get a two-inning save. (Really, I don’t remember the last part, but I found the box score here.) It was a good but ordinary game, with the thing I remember as much as anything else being a low key-but-very happy Guardado. He looked about 30 years younger than he does today.
Most of what he said didn’t find its way into my story, which was mostly about Winfield’s home run and a leaping catch he made. The Twins also helped Guardado out with a couple of nice plays in the infield.
A snippet from the game story:
“They played outstanding defense - Pags (Mike Pagliarulo) at third, (Pat) Meares at short, Winfield,” said Guardado (1-2), making his fifth start since being called up from Class AA Nashville. “That ball he caught, I thought it was gone. I turned around and looked and thought, `Dave has a chance at it.’ I usually don’t show my emotions when I’m pitching. But that moment, right there, I got kind of excited.”
Absolutely nothing that happened that day would have led me to believe that 15 years later, the Twins would be celebrating the return on their one-time closer who, save for one season in Seattle, never quite captured the success that he had with the Twins. Now, at age 38, Guardado could be one of the keys to the final weeks of the 2008 title race — providing his teammates step livelier than they did last night.
It does make me wonder which of the young players of 2008 we’ll be talking about 15 years down the road … in 2023.
other people are here too
124 Responses to "Feeling a bit old today. Thanks, Eddie"
LNP, wow that guy can still grind it out and battles his tail off even at 45 !!
Kevin Slowey 15 years from now, with his Madduxesque control will be staring down 300 wins in his triumphaint return to Minnesota after a brief stint in the National League. Ok, I know it is highly unlikely that any pitcher reaches 300 wins ever again, but it would be kinda cool.
Howard i think it will be Span i see him having a Shannon Stewart type of career.
If Slowey is near 300 wins in 15 years i hope the team never lets him get to the NL
It was nice to see Eddie come in and pitch a solid 1-2-3 inning. I feel so much more confident about our chances down the stretch now that Eddie can be called in for tight spots or set-up instead of Crain (he scares me) or Reyes (only good for 1 or 2 outs), and Matty’s arm needs a little R&R. I would also like to see Korecky back up here.
I bet Eddie felt old last night too Howard - looking around the clubhouse and seeing all these young faces he never played with when he was here. Well Eddie showed them that he’s still got it.
Welcome back Eddie!
It was VERY odd seeing Eddie on the mound again. I was glad to see him get through that inning.
Now let’s hope the rest of the bullpen can build from his example last night.
And Nathan…leadoff doubles are less than awesome. Beltre MAYBE doesn’t score later if Punto makes that play, but you’re not doing any favors by putting the first guy on second.
I can’t believe the Twins equipment staff gave Matt Macri’s #18 to Guardado!
They’re making fun of Berts call of Beltre’s homer on ESPN. It is kind of funny listening to it again because i turned the TV off as soon as it cleared the wall.
why was Bert doing play by play??
The geniouses at FSN decide to break down the major flaws in each contending team.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8468116/?MSNHPHMA
Twins #1 weakness: CF.
Yeah, I stopped reading the article at that point.
White sox play Boston this weekend while we in Oakland, better be making up a couple games in one of those races then.
Maybe Dick was getting his hair plugs adjusted?
T, you can’t take anything Dayn Perry writes seriously. He wrote an article on All Star teams and how the deciding factor should be star power. He is a bonafide idiot and shouldn’t be covering sports.
Hey, at least Dick probably got Beltre’s name right. He said the Rangers received MIKE Hamburger in exchange for Eddie G. His name is Mark.
Dick Bremer and Telly Hughes need to be the next ones DFA…
LOL i meant Dick. All you heard was silence then the word “gone” and then more silence.
Slowey would need to average 20 wins per year to get to 300 in 15 years. That would be the most incredible streak ever put together by a pitcher. Unlikely.
[…] Originally published by A Fan’s View […]
T
They are correct. The bullpen is a close number 2. all bullpens blow leads. I haven’t looked at the stats, but my guess is that the twins’ bullpen is average to slightly above average. However, the leads the twins have lost are magnified by the fact that the twins are in a very tight division race. The bullpen has an bad game once, maybe twice a week; Gomez has a good game once, maybe twice a week. Gomez as a weakness can be hidden with the rest of the lineup; When the bullpen melts down, there is no hiding it. The bullpen is a bigger problem once in a while, Gomez is a problem daily.
I should clarify on my Slowey joke before the math machines come out. I said on his way to 300 wins. Not at 300 wins. I was thinking an average of 16-17 a year for the next 15 years, add in his current career total (14) and you have 269. I would say that’s on his way. Even though that would put him at age 39.
I couldn’t agree more with FSN. We need Cuddy in right and Span in center, with Gomez as defensive replacement/pinch runner.
I also agree with Bill Brasky, Telly needs to get sent down. I find myself turning the channel when he is talking. I don’t understand what he is trying to say.
Yesterday, both before and during the game, telly said that Eddie G was in uniform, at the game, gardy’s not afraid to use him, but there is no word on what his role will be. Umm… how bout this, genius. His roll will be relief pitcher. And also, I don’t think the twins picked him up so they could admire his stoic form as he sits in the pen. of course gardy will use him if the need arises, why would he be afraid? Telly is truly awful at his job. He’s not fit to call JV games for a high school.
“…Slowey 15 years from now,with his Madduxesque control will be staring down 300 wins…”
First someone pegged SlowDog for 150 wins,then a bold prediction of 200,now we have Slowey close to HOF enshrinement.I’m sure Cy (511)Young is quaking in his grave.At least Roto says he was joking!
Well, I didn’t want to discuss our favorite Twins broadcasters necessarily to start out the day, but since others brought it up…I did have two thoughts from last night:
1. Does it ever get old for Dick to say things like “two innings ago in this situation Delmon Young had a big single, so let’s see what happens here..” or “last week in a similar spot Jason Kubel went deep” only to have the scenario pan out in the negative 99% of the time? I am fascinated how the egg on the face after these situations never tends to get noticed or have any effect….how about just let the game call itself?
2. For those of us who stayed up for it, the homerun call by Dick on Beltre’s blast was about as morbid as a sports announcer could possibly get…since, funny, I couldn’t find it on mlb.com anywhere today…allow me to recreate it:
“……………..(whispering): gone…………..”
Then, after Dick must’ve fainted or something, Bert had to take over and pick up the pieces…
Okay, enough belly-aching…I love Dick and Bert….only frustrated after a tough loss…those guys make Twins baseball fun…plus, all the other positives from last night:
Ed-die, Ed-die, Ed-die…looks like we found our set-up man at long last!
I’m glad that Brendan Harris is well rested now that the Twins will face six straight lefties…I think that was important to make sure he didn’t use up too many swing muscles the last few days while ensuring that Everday Nicky stayed fresh! I know that’s going to pay off with some huge hits by Harris tonight when he re-enters the lineup!!!!
Liriano continues to impress. How was that an earned run, by the way? A good throw by Casilla and that baserunner is out for sure!
Justin Morneau had a huge bomb of a double….just missed it.
Jason Kubel continued his hot-hitting against the Mariners! I hope the fact that we face two lefties the rest of the series doesn’t keep Gardy from allowing Kubes to do to the M’s what he did over a week ago! We’ll find out in the next several days if he truly is “freed”!!!!
Joe Nathan…bad things are going to happen from time to time, but you know, it ought to just remind us how good we have it with this guy…plus, he didn’t get the best defense possible.
Which brings me to this subtle question…as you know, I back Gardy 99% of the time…but I wonder if on the road you might not pull the infield in during that bottom of the 9th with a one-run lead (runners were at 1st and 3rd, no out)….especially with a strikeout pitcher like Joe Nathan on the hill–idea being if you get that first out on a grounder, he might strikeout the next guy or vice versa….maybe you play for the win instead of extra innings?
Tonight’s the night we get this train rolling again….
11-3 on the road trip still very possible!!!!!
I like Mauer’s chances of breaking out after a night of tough 1st and 2nd pitch strike calls on the outside corner…
I like Morny’s chance of another multi-hit game…
and you know Kubes is ready to prove he can mash M’s pitching blindfolded (yes, even their lefties!)
So let’s get after it tonight and regain 1st place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
as slowwww as Slowly pitches he should be able to pitch until he is 60 !! that should be enough time to get his 300 wins
Umm… how bout this, genius. His roll will be relief pitcher.
Wow. That’s vauge. Especially since the Twins also have Matty G, Sample, Crain, Breslow, Bonser, and Nathan as relief pitchers.
Saying Eddie’s role is “reliever” is like saying Morneau’s role is “hitter”.
Kidding: You have a good point on the BP vs. Gomez thing. But i think the fact that the rest of the lineup can potentially “absorb” Gomez means the bullpen is a bigger concern.
For just that reason. Bullpen collapses, that’s it. And when the BP starts to hit a rough patch, it means the Twins get into situations where starters start overthinking (worried they might not go long enough) and those BP guys that aren’t struggling start getting overused (Guerrier)
T you don’t really believe most of your stances do you? you just want to take the contrarian stance so you can “discipline” us on the blog…
other cf in the race:
crisp; 31 rbi, .257 ave, .319 obp
swisher; 81 rbi, .233 ave, .351 obp
melky; 36 rbi, .242 ave, .296 obp
upton; 59 rbi, .269 ave, .380 obp
gomez; 38 rbi, .256 ave, .291 obp
we all know gomez needs to get on base more become more selective, but his range and speed are better than any of these guys and he is the youngest and least exp.
imo he doesn’t stack up that bad against these other guys. doesn’t mean he doesn’t need a lot of improvement.
I was thinking this morning that I remembered seeing Eddie pitch for the Nashville Express and your article mentioned his call-up. ‘93 was the year Nashville had two minor league teams sharing the same stadium: the AAA Sounds and the AA Express. My daughter loved the Express. She was 10 then, she’s 25 now. It makes me feel old too Howard. Thanks for sharing.
T you don’t really believe most of your stances do you? you just want to take the contrarian stance so you can “discipline” us on the blog…
Despite what you may tell yourself to feel better, I don’t come here to rip on people. There’s actually a number of posters on here capable of making good baseball conversation.
Namely those able to seperate the opinion from the commenter.
I am still waiting for the time when you separate opnion from the commenter
T,
I’ve lately been impressed by Breslow. From what I’ve seen, he seems to be able to work in tight situations.
What do you think of Breslow and Guardado splitting the setup duties?
I was actually very impressed with Guardado’s control and pitch selection last night. The way he nibbled the outside corner with his change-up or whatever that was was quite good. He got 3 very harmless pop-ups. That was nice to see.
“The way he nibbled the outside corner with his change-up or whatever that was”
That’s funny, I was thinking the same thing…
Nice fastball…err…changeup there Eddie…
gobbledygookguy says:
August 26th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
other cf in the race:
crisp; 31 rbi, .257 ave, .319 obp
swisher; 81 rbi, .233 ave, .351 obp
melky; 36 rbi, .242 ave, .296 obp
upton; 59 rbi, .269 ave, .380 obp
gomez; 38 rbi, .256 ave, .291 obp
we all know gomez needs to get on base more become more selective, but his range and speed are better than any of these guys and he is the youngest and least exp.
imo he doesn’t stack up that bad against these other guys. doesn’t mean he doesn’t need a lot of improvement.
So, the logic here is that, since the other center fielders on contending teams are bad, we should be happy with bad? I’m not buying it. Gomez needs to and will improve, but he can’t be allowed to do it at the expense of the team.
YGTBKM - if Twins sent every player down that wasn’t a polished player with no flaws they would have a 2 man team of Morneau and Mauer with LNP wanting to pitch and play CF at the same time!
I don’t expect everyone on the roster to be an all-star, but i do expect them to bring more to the table than speed.
i guess you’re reading some logic into it that isn’t there. the point is gomez doesn’t stack up that poorly with the other cf in the race. the logic then is that there aren’t a lot of good center fielders, hitting production wise, in the american league this yr at least on contending teams. torii may be the exception but for 16m his #’s aren’t that good either.
the alternative to gomez is span in cf and a poor fielding kubel in rf or bring up a player that has never played in the majors and throw him into the race.
I don’t get the defending of Gomez. He has played worse the past few months than punto has at any point in his career, and there are no shortage of punto bashers. I’m not saying he is a worthless player and will neveer be any good. I am saying that he should not be playing right now. I see the red sox are after mark kotsay. why aren’t the Twins?
Kotsay would be an excellent rental.
I agree… saying the Twins’ biggest weakness is CF is just plain wrong.
Gomez hasn’t blown the lead late in game after game (though his defense didn’t help the cause in LA).
Gomez isn’t standing idly at third base providing no range and a horrific arm, while putting up mediocre offensive numbers to try to compensate for it.
Center field is a weakness, but the Twins need to solidify their bullpen (hopefully Eddie helps out) and find a third baseman who can either hit AND field, or who can at least hit so absurdly well that his fielding doesn’t kill us.
At this point in the season, I can’t even stand to see Buscher in the lineup anymore. I’d rather see Punto at third base every day, with Harris/Everett rotating at SS and Casilla at 2B.
I was in my car for Cairo’s double down the line last night, so I only saw one replay of it. Maybe I’m wrong, but is it safe to say Punto or Harris would’ve at least had a chance at it?
If Punto can continually hit above .260 (though he certainly didn’t look offensively capable of that last night, but he’s been better lately), his glove has to be at third base. Putting Brian Buscher there is just handing the other team runs, and to me, that is more frustrating to watch than the bullpen blowing a lead late in the game.
“You got to be kidding..,
” but there is no word on what his role will be. Umm… how bout this, genius. His roll will be relief pitcher.”
Closer?; 8th inning setup?; 7th inning setup?; 6th inning setup?, LH-hitters-only?; long relief?
Maybe THAT genius understands the complexity of the question and the possiblilities for answers.
So that makes him a genius compared to you.
Let’s not go TOO far, Kidding Me… Gomez is batting .267 since the All-Star Break. That would be damn near a career year for Nicky.
Again, I do think center’s a weakness, but I’m just being fair to Gomez. 
jon says:
August 26th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
“You got to be kidding..,
” but there is no word on what his role will be. Umm… how bout this, genius. His roll will be relief pitcher.”
Closer?; 8th inning setup?; 7th inning setup?; 6th inning setup?, LH-hitters-only?; long relief?
Maybe THAT genius understands the complexity of the question and the possiblilities for answers.
So that makes him a genius compared to you.
There is very little complexity to the question. Do you really think he is going to be the closer, moron? Or maybe long relief, after years of being a closer/middle reliever? Eliminating those two roles, you can safely assume middle relief. Setup man is a BS title that pretty much means “best middle reliever”. To pigeonhole a guy to a specific inning is stupid. You use whatever reliever you think can get through a specific situation.
Like I said above, I think Harris should continue to get plenty of bench time…he needs to keep his muscles fresh for when things start to really count (namely spring training 2009)
So I can handle a few defensive miscues as long as we keep the Buscher-Punto plan in place…it’s the safest option to ensure we have enough lefties in the lineup to counter whatever the opposition might throw at us.
Steve from Fridley says:
August 26th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Let’s not go TOO far, Kidding Me… Gomez is batting .267 since the All-Star Break. That would be damn near a career year for Nicky.
Again, I do think center’s a weakness, but I’m just being fair to Gomez.
Is he really? I’m sorry, I thought i read that he was hitting something like .200 the last 2 months. My apologies.
pop quiz…what do these numbers represent:
8 HR / 25 doubles / 2 triples / 62 RBI
vs.
6 HR / 26 doubles / 2 triples / 43 RBI
That’s right…the former’s numbers are from who is widely seen as our best hitter (and one of the best pure swingers in all of baseball) and the latter’s numbers are from our new utility infielder.
they don’t want harris to get hurt so they can trade him this winter. he doesn’t get after it (i.e. sliding into first head first)and battle the way the skipper wants.
it is amazing the use of “harris doesn’t have the range” excuse when buscher’s range is a foot each way and if he does catch it he can’t throw. a gardy double standard!
no use trying to understand the people who bash NOGO but defend LNP until he retires..
LNP is a 10 year Veteran he MUST play great DEF and not make mental mistakes that is expected of him
NOGO is a 22 year kid who has more talent in his pinky then 10 PUNTO”S !
he is expected to swat at pitches like trying to get a fly and make mental mistakes as he learns
Jason, I love Harris as much as the next guy, but pigeonholing stats to compare him to Mauer is shortsighted.
You kinda forget AVG/OBP. I’m too lazy to look them up, someone should do that if they care enough to. Plus defensively, Mauer is in the top 3 for catchers, I’m not sure Harris is up there for 3B, SS, 2B. I’m just saying.
you’ve,
“To pigeonhole a guy to a specific inning is stupid.”
The fact that most MLB teams do that to prevent repeated gametime warmup sessions for a given reliever would mean that they are all morons or (sarcastic) genuises.
Name-calling is your best skill, so lets hear your next name for me.
It upsets me so much, I will never post again.
Yeah, right!
Roto–
obviously Mauer is a better singles hitter and draws more walks (higher OBP) than Harris, this much cannot be denied and I didn’t attempt to deny it.
Still, the point is–it’s interesting, considering how much praise one hitter gets and how much the other has been dogged, how similar their production stats end up being….
Harris has 100 hits…Mauer has 133. Harris also has 38 fewer ABs….all I’m saying is something has to give…either Mauer isn’t as Superman-like as we make him out to be or Harris is pretty underrated…probably a combination.
Fire
I don’t mean to defend punto, though he has had a decent year, and my intention is certainly not to bash Gomez for being inexperienced; i realize he is 22, and that he has remarkable potential. But i do think that the Twins would be better served with a more polished player in center field; not an all-star, just someone who knows what they are doing.
jon get a thicker skin buddy! everyone gets piled drived here unless you:
1)love PUNTO with a passion
2)never ever write a critical word about anyone remotely related to Twin’s org.
3)think making the playoffs is the end all be all with always an eye on building for the future when eventually a better then 1% chance of winning a playoff series occurs
Absolutely Jason, I was intrigued by that comparison. I, by no means, am a Mauer apologist. I would like to see him get more extra base hits, but at the same time I think his OBP is huge to have in front of a guy like Morneau. Hell, I’ll go as far as saying that having Morneau, makes Mauer more valuable. One thing I’d like to see from Joe is that penchant for stealing he had a few years back. Nothing huge, maybe 15-20 in a season. Heck if Russell Martin can do it.
I’m gonna go ahead and say that Harris is underrated. I’m almost positive I was the only one in this state that saw him as an upgrade over Bartlett. That’s another statistical comparison I wanna look up, but am too lazy to do.
jon
I don’t know for sure, but i thought relievers warm up as needed. Sure, usually only once per game, but as they are needed. I don’t think the sixth inning rolls around and if the starter gets into trouble, a manager says “well, better get so-and-so up, he’s our sixth inning guy”. I’m pretty sure a manager looks at matchups and who is due up in the order, how each reliever has fared against that team, and who needs work vs. who has been worked lately.
Fire,
I don’t see how anyone could NOT love a guy who battles as much as Nicky does out there!
All that hustle… so scrappy! He’s what every baseball player should strive to be!
Brb, I’m gonna go slide headfirst into a wall to celebrate Scrappy Doo… I mean… Nick Punto.
you’ve..,
No problem.
I have been called a moron by friends and relatives who know me.
I disagreed with them, but what the hell!
Jason
Their numbers are similar, but mauer’s offensive numbers+position he plays+how he plays it=superstar. All that aside, when i watch a game with my buddies, we like to poke a little fun at the 6′6″ 240 pound singles hitter, too.
YGTBKM - Twins would be better served with alot of upgrades in positions and have a team like Angels or W. Sox.. but for what this season is.. a surprise competitive season partially based on Tigger/Indians falling flat in the middle of a massive rebuilding project NOGO is just fine learning on the job..
jon
exactly… what the hell. no offense meant. i just get a little worked up discussing my favorite baseball team (and sometimes their announcers). The arguments, heated or otherwise, are what make it fun.
Roto–
* I pick up the slack for laziness all day at work, so why not continue
Harris:
.263 avg. / .321 OBP / 6 HR / 26 doubles / 43 RBI
Bartlett:
.270 avg. / .309 OBP / 0 HR / 17 doubles / 23 RBI
this comparison favors Harris, and it’s not close. Of course the Rays don’t have a Punto, so you can see where Harris ends up on the bench…
But the point of the comparison wasn’t to degrade Mauer (hardly an issue with this squad), the point was Harris shouldn’t be shut down the way he has been.
ESPN boys constantly chant that Mauer is in the top 5 for AL MVP.. so don’t tell me ESPN doesn’t like Twins! in fact Buster Onley today said if he voted Mauer would be #3
Alright, laziness aside, I looked up the Bartlett/Harris comparison.
Harris: 380 AB .263/.321/.389 6HR 43RBI 50R 26 2B
Bartlett: 352 AB .270/.309/.335 0HR 23RBI 35R 17 2B
Based on that, I would say Harris is having a better year. I’ll take the higher OBP and Slugging as well as run production any day over a slightly higher batting average. To bring this full circle to another point, I would say the offseason Tampa trade is pretty even. Garza isn’t quite lighting it up, but has the ability to. Delmon has shown flashes of power (turtle power). He will more than likely be a .290 hitter with 20-25 HR and 100 RBI. I’m willing to say Harris and Bartlett offset eachother. Am I crazy for thinking that was a pretty even trade?
Bartlett’s up to .270? He must be on a tear lately.
Roto,
Bartlett’s offensive season is more or less non-existent. He’s got a line of .270/.309/.335… that’s a .644 OPS, he hasn’t hit a home run, and he’s driven in 23 runs.
He’s been injured, and he’s stolen 18 bases for the Rays, but all-in-all, he’s been nothing for them. I liked Bartlett too, when he was here, but he hasn’t delivered offensively at all. His defense is probably better than Brendan’s, but I’m with you… I was excited as hell to get Harris over Bartlett.
Harris batted over .280 last year with 12 HR and 57 RBI I believe… that’s very solid production from a middle infielder, especially in just 137 games!
I was looking forward to seeing Harris get about 155 games, and hopefully batting around .275 with 15+ HR and 70 RBI.
Unfortunately, I forgot to account for the fact that we can’t take out big-name talent like Adam Everett, Brian Buscher, and Nick Punto to make room in the lineup for a guy who doesn’t battle enough for Gardy’s tastes.
Jason what about the DEF part of the equation? all I keep reading on these blogs is that Harris has the range of a broken toaster so Bartlett must have improved plenty because when he was with the Twin’s he was lambasted for his lack of range and errors also
Mauer isn’t even the MVP of this team, let alone a legit MVP candidate for the American League.
Buster Olney is on crack.
I love the Twins, and I love Joe Mauer, but I have no hesitation in saying he’s one of the most overrated players in Major League Baseball.
He’s a #3 hitter with 62 RBI for crying out loud… that might be acceptable if we were the Royals or the Nationals, but good lord…
I never thought Bartlett was that good defensively. It is unfortunate that Harris loses some time due to Gardy’s man crush on Punto. (or Punto’s pictures he has on Gardy). And actually Punto’s defense hasn’t been that stellar as of late. There’s no excuse for the bobble last night. I don’t care if the runner ran in front of him.
Hopefully they realize what they have in Harris and let Punto walk at year end. Tolbert can pick up some defensive slack and Harris can roam as an offensive middle infielder.
Nice work on the offensive comparisons of Harris and Bartlett.
How do you look up zone rating? It would be interesting to compatre Punto, Harris, Everett, and Bartlett at SS.
defensively, frankly, none of these guys has impressed me a whole lot…way too many infield errors this season–by everyone…
but hey, guys, seriously, I’m out of my element here…..it’s time to be positive…and we have plenty to be positive about…
Think of the damage Kubel’s going to do tonight…
Think of how many RBI Morny might come up with….
I see a few bunt singles tonight, too…
I also see Everyday in there again…
I also see some big time getting after it; I’m not talking minor getting after it, I’m talking about REALLY getting after it….
I see a 7-2 Twins win tonight!
I think Span and Casilla will set the table nicely for the lefty brigade of Mauer-Morny-Kubel….
Hopefully Harris will get a crack or two from the 8 spot, but if not, at least he’ll be available in a potentially valuable pinch hitting role later in the game…
right now, with the season delmon is having vs. the season garza is having, i give a slight edge to the rays, because in my mind, good pitching is better to have than good hitting, and the rays would not be where they are without good pitching. harris and bartlett are a wash, maybe a slight edge to harris because of the power.
“Mauer isn’t even the MVP of this team, let alone a legit MVP candidate for the American League.
Buster Olney is on crack.
I love the Twins, and I love Joe Mauer, but I have no hesitation in saying he’s one of the most overrated players in Major League Baseball.
He’s a #3 hitter with 62 RBI for crying out loud… that might be acceptable if we were the Royals or the Nationals, but good lord…”
Time to pack up the house in Fridley, Steve…you’re about to be kicked out of Minnesota…
What’s the address so we can send the State Patrol over?
believe Gardy when LNP is in the “ZONE” he is DYNAMITE!!
I may be in a crazy camp for this, but I think AVG and HR are the 2 most overrated offensive categories. (Amazingly the triple crown categories). I would like to see RBI and R combined into some sort of run production. Then on top of that AVG w/ RISP should be much more valuable than simple AVG.
I remember in an ESPN chat recently that Morneau is behind only Quentin in RBI + R - HR. I think that gives more stock to the MVP debate. Then the HR isn’t such an inflated statistic. Frankly a single with guys on 2nd and 3rd is about 1000 times better than a solo homer.
Harris’ zone rating (at SS) is .762 compared to Bartlett’s .849… that’s a pretty substantial difference I suppose, but I’d still take Harris over Bartlett, all things considered.
Harris can play three positions adequately, and is a far more productive hitter.
lol, how do you quantify getting after it? I also would like to see some stats that detail battling one’s tail off.
“Time to pack up the house in Fridley, Steve…you’re about to be kicked out of Minnesota…
What’s the address so we can send the State Patrol over?”
Hilarious. Also, is it blasphemous to say that Nick Blackburn has better sideburns than Mauer? I’m willing to say his sideburns are more overrated than his hitting. Only a few more years before we find out they are painted on, a la Hulk Hogan. (I should stop the Mauer bashing before I get struck down).
Jason:
Perhaps Harris’ position on the bench tonight will confuse and distract the opposition so much, they will make several critical managerial and pitching mistakes!
You’ve…
I’d say you can break “getting after it” into 3 categories.
% of head first slides into first on infield grounders.
helmet throws and various flailing of equipment
# of Web Gems
“Frankly a single with guys on 2nd and 3rd is about 1000 times better than a solo homer.”
Actually more like two and a half times better…gives you one extra run and puts a runner on first…
Solo homer in inning 10 would’ve been nice last night.
every infielder lacks range when in comparison to punto.
nicky should be called the mvpunto, get a gold glove at 3b, ss and 2b.
one issue when comparing bartlett to harris is that harris sits while bartlett plays!
i can honestly say that the 2 yrs bartlett was with the twins i never thought boy is he a great shortstop.
Vegas Dave, here you go…
Bartlett: .849
Everett: .821
Punto: .870 (SS), .778 (3B), .787 (2B)
Harris: .762 (SS), .781 (3B), .786 (2B)
Buscher: .788
Buscher somehow has the highest ZR at third of any of our options, but then again, Harris and Punto can actually make the throw across the diamond, so…
Roto….you’re next…hope you enjoy the beautiful views in Iowa…
My girlfriend thought bartlett was hot. she is the only person in my house that misses bartlett.
Did anyone else catch it last night when Dick suggested that no one in the league gets to foul balls the way Denard Span does?
Subtle, but unbelievable homerish moment. Yep, correct…we’ve broken down every other RF in baseball, and after 3 months of Span, we know he’s the absolute best at it.
Cracked me up…
If the cops come to get me, I’ll use everything Punto has taught me to escape. Headfirst slide into my backyard out the doggy door, leap over the fence, and then battle my tail off as I sprint down the street with my teeth clenched as my hat flies off the back of my head.
They’ll never take me alive!
GGG - correct!! the common perception for Bartlett was that he played o.k. DEF and had much better power then LNP..hmmm.. sounds alot like 2008 version of Harris except where Barlett played as a starter while LNP was a bench mascot LNP is the starter and Harris is a bench mascot
Thanks Steve. suprising info on Buscher. Doesn’t ZR take into account throwing errors?
Jason,
You watch… Denard Span is going to take Mauer’s “Baby Jesus” moniker away from him pretty soon. He can already do no wrong in Minnesota, and if you watch Baseball Tonight, Steve Phillips has already called him “perhaps the best athlete in baseball” and they constantly talk about Span having the “highest ratio of catches that are webgems…”
The Denaardvark is gonna take Minnesota by storm.
And for the record, I’m not saying the absurd Span love is a good thing… it’s just going to become a reality, it seems like.
LasVegasDave
No, but ZR DOES take battling your tail off into account.
” if you watch Baseball Tonight, Steve Phillips has already called him “perhaps the best athlete in baseball” and they constantly talk about Span having the “highest ratio of catches that are webgems…””
the above statement goes against all I have been told is good and true!! ESPN hates the Twins!! how can this be???
Steve Phillips is a tool.
Oh boy… Span has assured himself playing time for the rest of his life, no matter how poorly he plays. I just saw this:
“I’m battling my tail off against a pitcher that’s already good,” Span said. “I felt like [Rodriguez] doesn’t need help. He already has 49 saves. He don’t need help from the umpire to get 50.”
Span can now bat .119 next year and he’ll be out there every day still. Talk about working your way up into Gardy’s Man-Crush Penthouse Suite. Move over Punto, you’ve got a roommate now!
Kidding Me,
Agreed. 100% agreed.
So is Eric Davis. That’s the other guy right? I don’t like either of them. Eric Davis’ voice is like nails on a chalkboard. To be fair to them, i don’t like many analysts. No one puts out a well thought out opinion anymore. Everyone thinks they have to go out on a limb with every opinion, or be the guy who sticks his neck out with a contrarian opinion.
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/dialed_in/discussion/al_defensive_stats_through_august_7/
AL defensive stats through August 7.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p9BODtOllD4sghfe3_QgJew
Gomez is a +14 at CF (First)
Harris at -8.6 at SS (Last-56th)
Punto +3.3 at SS (5th)
Bartlett +3.7 at SS (4th)
Everett +0.1 at SS (25th)
So, in this guy’s system, Harris is a brutal SS, and Punto is well above average.
steve
battling your tail off guarantees that you’ll bat at least .220, so i don’t think we have to worry about .119.
You’ve got to be kidding me! says:
August 26th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
LasVegasDave
No, but ZR DOES take battling your tail off into account.
Then it is the holy grail of statistics.
although if you battle your tail off while getting after it, you’ll hit .250. If you get after it while scuffling a little bit, you’ll only hit .235. if you scuffle a little bit, then get after it, you might hit .240. If you’re getting after it and battling, but the ump has rabbit ears, the manager gets tossed.
i love it. When the ESPN guys say something nice about the Twins, they are idiots. When they don’t say anyting about the Twins, they have an East Coast bias.
As for Bartlett v harris, you cannot be serious. Gardy won’t even play harris, and TB has said repeatedly that Bartlett is nearly single handedly responsible for fixing their defensive issues. Gardy has said at least twice how much he misses Bartlett’s D.
As for the Twins’ biggest weakness, just because the other hitters can cover up for him does not mean Gomez is not the biggest weakness. I also find it funny that people say how good his d is, then dismiss that in the Bartlett v harris comparison.
All in all, I find the thread entertaining today.
Mike hard to pick out your point about Bartlett are you saying he is much better player then Harris because gardy won’t play him and TB is forced to start Bartlett because they don’t have LNP?
“Gardy has said at least twice how much he misses Bartlett’s D.”
Didn’t he have like 20 errors or something last season?
Like I said, entertaining read.
TB loves Bartlett’s D. Gardy loved Bartlett’s D. Gardy started Bartlett all year last year, and won’t even let Harris off the bench anymore.
he actually had 26 errors!! yep I am sure that’s the DEF Gardy is missing!! must be why he loves LNP especially after another error to help lose a game!
Oh, and I’m still waiting for Gardy to throw Punto under the bus, like he did Kubel…………
You can believe he misses it, or not. But gardy said he missed it. Are you saying he was lying?
I am saying he is either lying or a moron or both
Lay off, Gardy….he’s the man!
he’s a man we can agree on that one..
i can recall gardy having issues with barlett on many occasions. maybe he has a short memory, or the grass is always greener under the other shortstop.
that doesn’t say anything good about the manager-front office relations if they a trade away a player the manager loves.
and won’t even let Harris off the bench anymore
In Anaheim, Harris wasn’t even on the bench for 90% of the game….. I thought they had DFA’d him and was waiting to announce a move because I rarely saw him….guess he was in the cage or weight room or something, or away from the Punto Kool-aid everyone else was drinking…..
Punto and Bartlett are both better defensively than Harris and offensively it’s pretty much a wash. I have nothing against Harris. He’s a pretty good utility player and spot starter. I also agree that Gardy does have his favorite and less-than-favorite players, but I can’t blame (or criticize) Gardy for starting Punto over Harris.
saam…I’m not going to make a huge issue of it, either…but how do you say that it’s pretty much a wash offensively when you enter into the equation that Harris provides virtually the same run production as Joe Mauer.
I know, I know…Mauer has better avg. and OBP (walks, etc.)…but doesn’t that seem weird?
I’ll tell you why it’s not a wash–look at RBI…Punto had, what, 25 last year…this year he has what 24 or something? I don’t think that can be overlooked…(although in limited at-bats)
Another Dick oddity (I’m on a roll with these today)…did anyone notice yesterday when they were talking about Denard Span and being ejected by Brian Gorman in the final game of the Angels series, Dick immediately came to Span’s defense, saying something like “he’s such a nice gentlemen”.
Look, I don’t know a thing about Denard Span and I give Dick credit for being much closer to this team than any of us…but you’re telling me that this “nice gentlemen” is incapable of saying a swear word or two to an umpire? Give me a break with some of this stuff…I know I sound like a whiner, but I’m just a fan who observes…
Jason,
Denard has already been given permission by the blog to sit at the untouchable table.
Morneau, Casilla, and Liriano are the only other guys currently allowed at that table.
but you’re telling me that this “nice gentlemen” is incapable of saying a swear word or two to an umpire?
I heard that comment. And my first thought was the typical “He doesn’t usually argue” comment that you hear when a guy like Morneau or Mauer gives the ump a bit of a jawing.
I think it was 2005 when Radke (of all people) got ejected from a game. And the agreed thought from most of the Twins was “Wow…you know there’s something up if Radke of all guys is arguing a call.”
It’s not like he’s rushing to Span’s defense…just making the same comparison. Span is usually a pretty level guy when it comes to umpiring…so to see him go off is unusual. (Vs. a guy like Hunter or Jones)
“It’s not like he’s rushing to Span’s defense…just making the same comparison.”
Excuse me, he was rushing to Span’s defense.
We have no track record on Span and umpiring because he’s been in the Big Leauges only 3 months.
Look, I’m not saying what Span did was wrong…that pitch wasn’t close to being a strike, I probably do the same thing…but let’s not pretend like Span has this life-long rapport with MLB umpires and this was way out of character.
I’m sure Span’s a great guy…and I’m damn happy he’s done what he’s done this year…but Dick’s need to skew and twist reality is insulting to all of us. It was an outburst…an outburst by a player…a tantrum, if you will…it happens. Heck, Gardy invented it, it seems. It’s okay to call it what it is…
I see twinsbaseball.com has decided that it too needs to put a story-book spin on this saga by proclaiming “Span has learned his lesson”
What’s the need for this junk? He was screwed by the ump and he reacted as many players do…so what? I thought Gorman’s strike zone was horrendous those last three innings and frankly I’m glad Span gave him an earful at that moment. Why the public needs to be assured that all of our precious Twins are G-rated all the time is beyond me.
Jason, this is a weird day for me, but once again I agree with you. I see no reason to spin it whatsoever. In fact, I applaud the guy for flipping out. I want players to show emotion and occasionally put the umpires in their place.
The only time I see fit to talk about learning a lesson is when a bat is thrown at an umpire. I’m ok with saying Delmon learned his lesson. But turning around and yelling at an ump, well, that’s baseball. Heck, I occasionally yelled at and mocked umps in little league. (but I’m a terrible person).
gardy is fast approaching the record for being tossed it’s not like he shows a great example for the players.
it’s getting very touchy-feely if you can’t argue with an ump anymore.
that’s big brother, first they take away the drugs and then freedom of speech, what’s next?
Absolutely. Denard doesn’t need you to plead his case, Dick. He’ll be just fine on his own.
And I got news for everyone…Twins baseball players are not Saints. They probably swear, they might even watch Rated R movies…might enjoy getting drunk every now and then…who knows, they may even play a friendly game of poker for about, oh, $10,000 or so….
it’s okay. They’ll be fine.
I was yelling and screaming at the TV when Gorman rang up span on that pitch that was clearly low and away.
My apologies, Dick. I learned my lesson, though.
Jason,
I thought the same thing about Span getting on the Ump. I’m glad he showed that fire and I agree, the Ump deserved it.
My initial impression is that Span is one of those that will keep quiet until really pushed. Sunday, he was pushed and gave the Ump a well deserved piece of his mind.
Harris - thumbs up
Gomez - thumbs up
Punto - thumbs DOWN
In the lst 30 days, Liriano is 1st among all AL starters in ERA. Slowey is 3rd. Perkins is 14th.
Then there’s Baker who, against those formidible 3-4-5 Twins bashers of the M’s last night (7 for 11 while the rest of the lineup went 3 for 19), hung on for a quality start for 6-2/3. About 100 pitches, about 70 strikes.
I like these four starters as a post-season core.
Guerrier is born again with the addition of Eddie G. The BP will be fine.
Now for the lineup and its only problems of power hitting and defense at 3B. Gardy can solve these problems with the personnel he has, if he’s smart.
Harris at 3B. Kubel in right. A defensive wash as 3B tightens and RF loosens. But it offers everyday power in the lineup, as there is MUCH more confidence in Ruiz than a Rondell White at DH, and we see Kubel’s hot bat against all comers EVERYday.
And please note that this produces a starting lineup of smart, veteran players ready for the home stretch pressure. And leaves Gomez as an excellent pinch runner. And leaves a better pinch hitter from the left side, Buscher.
And there remains the 7th best hitter against lefties in MLB history since records of such were kept — Redmond.
No power off the bench? Redmond has your double, Buscher too. I trust that each will hit .300 the rest of the year too.
And, need a pinch bunter for Young or Ruiz? It’s Everett.
Time to get to it, Gardy.
