Memos from Section 220
Posted on September 15th, 2008 – 9:09 AMBy Howard
To: The Vikings — Thanks for folding Sunday. It’s taking some of the attention away from the way the Twins played Sunday afternoon, and the fact that they ended the night 1 1/2 games behind the White Sox. You guys are to touchdowns what the Twins are to home runs.
To: Nick Punto — Incredible, dude. I had your back last week using statistics, which isn’t typically the way that you come out looking good. Then, on Sunday, you go out and make two base-running mistakes that were straight outta Little League. You looking to be the bad seed in the “Doing the Little Things Right” video series? If you’re in the lineup tonight, I’m gonna believe the Gardy’s love child rumors. In the meantime, I hope the stats-only people use this as a lesson about the value of intangibles, and that everyone understands intangibles cut both ways.
To: Nick Blackburn — What was that Sunday, a Carlos Silva imitation from that 2006 start in Baltimore? You have two more regular season starts left, if I’m reading the schedule right. You’re better than that.
To: Scott Baker — You against Cliff Lee (22-2) on Wednesday with three days’ rest. Good luck, pal. I’m glad that Gardy has decided not to offer up a No. 6 starter as a sacrifice for this one. The Twins are the only AL team that’s beaten Lee this year. Do it again, OK? Your teammates owe you for that 1-0 loss to CC at Cleveland earlier this season.
To: Michael Phelps — I don’t like to veer from baseball too much here in Section 220, but you weren’t very good hosting SNL. Stick to swimming, please.
To: Torii Hunter — I know you’ve taken a lot of snark from around here this season, but I was listening to Denard Span on XM the other day and he talked about how much you helped him understand what it takes to be a big leaguer. It wasn’t one of those cliche-filled responses and he sounded really grateful for what you did. Now, can you spend some time this winter with the current center fielder? Good luck in the postseason, except against the Twins.
To: Johan — On Saturday, you were taken out for the seventh time with a lead that your team gave up. I don’t know who the guy was on the Orioles broadcast, but when the subject came up, he suggested that if you really wanna be a stud, you pitch a little deeper into games.
To: Glen Perkins — How big a lead do you need?
To: The Field Naming Committee — Target Field? Well, at least I’m confident we won’t be faced with an “Enron Field” situation like they had in Houston. Someone said they intercepted these as they were being taken to the neighboring garbage burner: Puckett Pavilion… The Legacy at Pohlad Park… Sales Tax Stadium… Garbage Burner Field… Sid-y-corp Stadium.
What have I left out?
104 Responses to "Memos from Section 220"
I think you left out Kyle Farnsworth…for allowing DeWayne Wise to hit a grand slam off of him after the Tigers erased a 7-0 deficit.
Howard, I have an honest question…do you think the Twins make the postseason?
Erik,
There are no civil words to describe my feelings toward Kyle Farnsworth right now.
Honest answer: Heart, yes. Head, no. The treadmill is taking its toll on my characteristic rational optimism.
First, I’m going to admit I love the Twins and Vikes, and as such, watched mostly Vikes yesterday and only peeked in on Twins (if this puts me in the 220 Doghouse, so be it…just wanted full disclosure).
So, as the Vikes were kicking field goals, I turned over to the Twins and noticed the Orioles kicked two field goals by the 4th inning as well.
Not good.
I also had this thought while Tarvaris Jackson was getting boo’d by the Metrodome crowd: Why don’t Minnesota fans greet Nick Punto similarly? Is “getting after it” really all it takes?
On T-Jack (and this will be the last word on the Vikes), I think it’s so simplistic to blame it all on him…his main targets yesterday were guys named Schianco and Tahi, for crying out loud. He only had 7 pass attempts in the first half, until the final drive–which no one seems to givev him credit for…instead, they dwell on two incompletions that landed in the Colts’ bench (funny, I thought throwing it OB was better than getting picked off–oh well, I guess nothing will satisfy fans).
Did anyone else notice Chili use the phrase “battling his tail off” in his post game interview? I nearly fainted when I heard that.
Back to Punto…I have a somewhat busy day so I request one of our 220 stat guys to look this up–find out what the Twins record is in 2008 when Punto starts. I am not going to repeat what Howard has said–he stated it perfectly.
Beyond that, the offense was due a day off after putting up back-to-back ‘dozens’ (that’s four field goals if you’re scoring at home) on Saturday. Sunday, we settled for one field goal.
Now, the Whities aren’t going anywhere, so I suggest we take care of Cleveland this week before we embark on a monumental series against the Rays. If Toronto would’ve held serve in Game 2 Saturday, we would have picked up two games in one day on the Red Sox for the wild card (yes, I’m still tracking that). Instead, the Jays blow a late lead and a day later, the Red Sox are back in commanding shape there.
How about doing the little things right on occasion field?
Howard,
How about Kenny Rogers as well? Talk about a guy that should retire ASAP.
Last night was absolute proof as to why the Tigers are 70-77 on the season…just pathetic.
I’d like to think the Twins can make the postseason…IMO, them jumping the Sox has to occur with the upcoming series…
Twins @ Cleveland and Sox @ New York (AL)…let’s hope the Yankees are in the mood to send Yankee Stadium off on a good note.
As far as I can tell, Punto has appeared in 85 games this season and the Twins won 51 of them. Thats good for a .600 win percentage, which outpaces the team overall. I don’t know how useful this really is, considering he came in as a late inning defensive replacement or a pinch runner in several of these games and didn’t have a plate appearance, but take it as you will…
Battle our tails off field.
To: Kevin Slowey — How about your third shoutout of the season today?
To: Ron Gardenhire — Whenever you get the compulsion to bring Reyes in from the BP, call for Mijares instead.
I hope the stats-only people use this as a lesson about the value of intangibles, and that everyone understands intangibles cut both ways.
Gee, I didn’t realize fundamentals were intangible. I’m sure there’s some way you can measure them. How about tallying every play Punto makes with his showboating, freewheeling style? Then you could count the plays he does not make (errors, getting picked off, etc.) and do a ratio. My point is, playing good fundamental baseball is not like “clubhouse chemistry” or “leadership” or whatever. It is something you can see with your own two eyes, which I think is the definition of tangible.
BTW, I blame Castro for some of this. Yesterday, Gladden made a comment about a ball Castro let roll under his glove that resulted in the home-town scorer giving Cuddyer a hit. He said Castro was “going for style points” rather than making the routine play, which was my biggest complaint about him when he played here. I think Punto’s game changed when he played with Castro: He realized that style counts in the eyes of coaches and fans. If Castro could keep his position on style alone, it could work for Punto. And it has worked for Punto: He is called a “gold-glove caliber” fielder at every position despite mediocre numbers. Why? He goes for style points, which leave a good impression in the minds of coaches and fans despite the numbers.
Erik…you got my two guys covered.
Kenny Rogers needs to pack it up and retire, he looks old, no control, and has been awful this year.
Kyle Farnsworthless is so bad, I would have bet that he gave up a home run in that inning, but not to Wise that sucked (also goat of the inning is something called Hessman who bobbled a chopper right to him to allow Wise to bat)
cmath,
Nicely stated, but where is the stat for baserunning blunders? And it would need a great acronym, don’t you think? Pretty Unfortunate ‘N’ Terrible Opportunities (PUNTOs), for example.
Re: Target Field. A buddy of mine just emailed about that. My response:
I was hoping for the LOL, myself. Sounds a lot better, too.
That said, it’s kind of obvious, what with the Target Center being right across the plaza. Being the gigantic dork that I am, I read the monthly reports on ballparkauthority.com every… month. They noted in the last one that the Twins asked Mortenson to stop work on the plaza for reasons not noted. This press release indicates that Target is going to have some input into the design of said plaza. Hm, now we know why they stopped work. Think it’ll end up being red and white with giant bullseyes?
All in all, it’s a solid choice of sponsor. They’re a huge investor in the MPLS-StP metro area and are definitely *not* ashamed to be based here. They’re also a prospering company that is showing no signs of going away (Enron Field?) and have demonstrated time and time again that they’re wizards with marketing. I completely trust that whatever Targetesque design features happen to the stadium and field will be done extremely well. As long as the grass stays green, that is…
Hm, the mound sure makes a convenient bullseye itself, doesn’t it?
His response:
What if the whole Target Center/Field/Walkway area becomes “The Target Center” with “Target Arena” and “Target Field” as major components?
TO: The Yankees - We all hate your guts and are very happy you didn’t make the playoffs this year but if you sweep the Sox you will move down to 3rd on our most hated teams list behind Boston and Chicago.
As was the case with Jason, I didn’t watch much of the Twins game on Sunday. I’m thinking I would’ve been equally as disappointed, so my state of mind would not be changed. However, Liz?!?! C’mon Twinkies. This guy is not good. Stop making him look like the second coming of Bob Feller.
Punto…oh Punto you disgraceful little….anyway. I have officially hopped off the Punto defenders train. I can’t do it anymore. He no longer plays “the right way.” His grit and demeanor are awful. He is no longer a viable option every day.
Re: Target Field. Initially I didn’t like it. Not because of the Corporate Sponsorship. That is a non issue. It’s status quo now. No reason to fight it. I was hoping for a different company to come in. General Mill for “Wheaties Field” perhaps. But now I see some benefits to the Target Center/Target Field combo. We could be looking at the “Target Sporting Bullseye” or something of the like for that spot in downtown. Target could help develop that area and build it up in their likeness. I see only benefits there. I’m neither an architect, nor a land developer, so what do I know?
THE BULLSEYE
That is the new name of the ballpark says I. It may not be the official name, but lets get it started grassroots style. Kind of like how in Houston, they call it the juicebox… Target Field just leaves so much to be desired
First, I’m definitely behind Joel’s suggestion of making the whole neighborhood The Target Center, with Arena and Stadium as major components. Howard, you’ve got some connections that could make that happen, right?
Second, I managed to make it up to Baltimore both Friday night (it was… wet) and yesterday. It was hot. I was amazed the Twins came out swinging in the 9th, since everyone else at the park was ready to get out of the heat. Those 3 runs are an extremely encouraging sign. There’s some fight left in our Twinkies.
How about “The Ballyard at Target Center”?
I have an idea for a stadium name: Metropolitan Stadium.
I was hoping for Land ‘O Lakes Field, but Target is a good corporate citizen. Still, Target Field just doesn’t roll off the tongue nicely. Target Park might have been better but I like the Bullseye nickname idea.
LNP’s performance Sunday was just a microcosm of what many of us have been saying about him all season. I will not at all be suprised to see him starting again tonight.
White Sox will win the division!
Jay: I like your idea for the name. Then the Vikings and Kicks could play there too. (LOL)
How about calling it Discount Diamond?
Sums up the Twins and the sponsor.
Not sure what was more frustrating. Seeing the Twits pitching batting practice in Baltimore or the Vi-queens lifting their skirts to kick another field goal. Absolutely pathetic display on both teams.
HOWARD, HOWARD, HOWARD!
You need to take the Packer’s Aaron Rodger’s advice and “Get on board or just shut up.”
Just kidding, that’d be pretty hard to do in your occupation.
I guess I don’t see any reason it won’t just be called “the Target”. But who knows? I really hope they don’t get too commercial with the plaza or the stadium (like red seats instead of green, for example). Let’s hope for some class.
Re Twins… they’re not going to win every game. They are, after all, on the road… and we know what kind of road team they are. If there’s a remaining playoff chance, it’s got to be that the Sox have a worse road trip than the Twins do.
Re Vikings… I don’t like to jump on a guy when he’s down, but TJ is simply not a legitimate starting NFL QB at this time. This team has a lot of quality parts, but unless he gets a LOT better, they’ll be lucky to win half their games. It’s a shame, really. Oh… and the play calling sucked, too. If we’re assessing blame, the coaches get every bit as much as the QB.
I think it will come out to the 3 game series at the dome vs. Sox.
I mean, ‘come down’ to that series.
I mentioned this on another comment section, but I don’t care if the Field/Park has a corporate sponsor name, as I always talk about going to the Twins’ game, not going to a named field. Same with a future to Gopher games, not a named stadium. So, who cares about the name of the field?
I just thought of one potential benefit to the stadium’s new sponsor.
“Honey, I have to run to Target for a bit. Be back in a few hours. Don’t worry about dinner. I’ll eat, um, there.”
Good point joel or you could tell your boss you need to go pickup some office supplies at Target.
I can only hope they aren’t done naming it… It could still be “Target Field At Hennepin County Stadium.” Target’s (much smaller) contribution paying for the grass and clay, with the taxpayers getting recognition for providing the real material; concrete, limestone, steel, etc.
I suppose it’s better than Mal*Wort Field.
After another pathetic perfomance by Travaris Jackson the Vikings start the season at 0-2. Open letter to Brad Childress. Jackson is another Culpepper. He is not an NFL starter and never will be. And since you are so adamant at keeping him as your starter maybe we should end two experiments in Minnesota. The first one as you being the head coach and the second Travaris Jackson at QB. Gus Frerotte should be the Vikings QB If we are going to make the playoffs little lone win the division.
I mean Mal*Wart Field.
I actually would have preferred something like what the Orioles did: Oriole Park and Camden Yards. How about Twins’ Field at Target Center? Then the broadcasters can refer to it as Twins Field but Target can get all the adverlingus.
I’ve been supporting Nicky P all season and the decision to play him because he played like he had fire in his baseball pants.
Today, I have jumped off the path I was misled down and won’t support him any longer. The reason is that when he overran first base and took a slight turn towards second, and was subsequently tagged out, it was clear that Jerry White signalled to him to get back to first base. LNP didn’t even try to correct his mistake, and even though he knew he was really out by that time, looked like he couldn’t have cared less and nonchalantly walked back. That kind of attitude is going to directly contribute to the downfall of this team in the next two weeks.
This was after his horrible baserunning/stealing error to third, which technically is an insult to little league players to say it was a little league mistake.
So, I am punting on Punt-o and throwing him to the rest of you to say whatever you want in the future. Take me out of the oven, I’m done.
Twins were listless Sun to say the least. I don’t think the Twins are a hot weather team. They have played poorly in hot weather. They said it was awful Sun in Baltimore…..But certainly no excuse. The entire team was listless (putting it nicely) and Punto wasn’t thinking……….
Maybe the Twins will feel comfortable in the Dome at Tampa….
Time is running out….No more time for games like Sun.
I thought maybe, just maybe, the people who are paying for the stadium would have a say in it’s naming. I also thought that maybe, just maybe, Smilin’ Carl would wake up one day and decide he already had enough money. I have other fantasies as well, but won’t go into them here.
….and i got to see the game live…. ugh
adverlingus…… witty!
Is Punto Gardy’s love child, or do they have a little extra something something going on? I wonder who plays the woman?
did Yost get fired? anyone else hearing that?
It’s hard to sweep teams. Need the next two games because it’ll be nigh unto impossible to win Wed. vs Lee.
Go Yankees!! It’s time for history to remember you as fighters the last season in Ruth’s House.
yeap, Yoster is fired:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8566562/Brewers-fire-head-coach-Yost
Yup, Yost is toast…
MILWAUKEE (AP) — The Milwaukee Brewers have fired manager Ned Yost in the midst of a late-season slump that has jeopardized the team’s chances of making the playoffs for the first time since 1982.
Third-base coach Dale Sveum will become interim manager for the remainder of the season.
The Brewers have lost seven of their last 10, and share the NL wild-card lead with Philadelphia.
Not a fan of his managing…. think the FO would have liked to have seen him move up Sabathia like the Phills moved up their guys.
Oh for the love of ___ people, get off the “taxpayers paid for the stadium” gambit. It’s old, it’s played out, and it just doesn’t make sense. I refuse to go political on a Twins board. In fact that’s one reason I enjoy going on Section 220. However, I cannot let this go unmentioned.
The cost per taxpayer is so small that there is no reason to say we are breaking the bank for the stadium. What is the tax increase, 1 cent for every $100. Hey, if you don’t wanna pay it, don’t spend money. It’s a choice. I will gladly pay it because I want to watch high quality outdoor baseball.
As for the complaints of Pohlad’s cheapness. C’mon people. Grow up. The Twins are a low revenue team. Pohlad operates them as a business. (amazing concept huh?). He will not, I repeat, WILL NOT lose money. As a highly successful business man, he has never intentionally lost money. He won’t start now. The only way for Pohlad to start spending more money, is to bring in more revenue. That can be accomplished by a few things. Building a new stadium that will bring in people, or raising ticket prices in the giant marshmallow. It’s been shown that winning hasn’t brought in sellouts. Our attendance has been a joke in past division championship years. So you expect Pohlad to go into the red to appease the fans? That’s ludacris. We basically showed him that even when we are winning, the fans won’t necessarily come. Talk about incentive to spend $200m on a player. yeah, right?! So let’s all get off our whining ledge and think logically. The Twins are a ballclub, yes, but they are also a business. They are operated efficiently and successfully. They have shown that even with payroll issues, they will win. I am satisfied with that. (although a WS win would be nice). However, it is shortsighted and almost insulting to be angry with Carl Pohlad.
…and rant over. Sorry for the long post.
[…] Originally published by A Fan’s View […]
Well Howard beat me to it–Yost is toast–dont understand how a contending team can sack a mgr. with 2 weeks to go. Goes along with having a contender play 24 out of 30 on the road in the stretch–dont understand how Bud Selig can allow that either.
Living in the MD suburbs of DC–I can tell you all it was HOT HOT HOT here. The Twins did well to play all 3 games in 24 hours much less win 2.
Add me to the list of people going off the Little Nicky Punto bandwagon. The baserunning was atrocious–even backup Os announcer Rick Dempsey (a real showboat guy) was appalled. If LNP stays on second base early–the Twins could have snuck a run and who knows…
As to field names–rumors here in DC metro area that new Nats field will be named Exxon/Mobil Stadium this winter–think Target is much better.
DAM
Rotoblinders - couple of points you may not have considered about “Smiling Carl”
1)the payroll dropped 15M this year the team made money last year so it is making even more this year
2)maybe the attendance is so bad because the fans are trying to tell Pohlad and the Twin’s that the current payroll while insuring a HUGE profit for Carl also means the GM has to keep grasping at straws by signing washed up vets to try to field a competent team
3)Carl bought the team for 44M it is currently worth 328M according to Forbes he will make his money no matter what!
DAM,
i was at yesterdays game and was getting a beer on the 1st base thing…. no one sitting near me could explain what LNP did, i saw on TV.
I don’t need to fall off his bandwagon, i did that about may of 07
Firing Yost while your still in the race and replcaing him with your 3B coach sounds like a Bud Selig move to me. Stupid.
Mobil stations around here are called the “Stop and Robs”. Exxon stations are called the “Kum-and-Go”, which sounds dirty to some people. They have a great name for nickname ideas!
“we just need to get LNP in tonights line-up to let him make up for his mistakes” He is so gritty we need him in our line-up. He will get after it tonight…
Can’t wait for the line-ups to be posted!
“We have LNP yes we do, we LNP how bout’ you?”
RE: “1)the payroll dropped 15M this year the team made money last year so it is making even more this year”
Did the payroll drop that much? I recall reading where the signing bonuses for Morneau ($6 million) and Cuddyer ($2.75 million) were paid up front, so the payroll number we’re seeing are actually about $8.75 million higher. Can someone correct me on that?
I do not normally post, but I noticed that the name Target Field is actually fitting. Have you noticed the Target motto? “Pay less, expect more”
“Fire” makes a very good point. When you buy something for “44M and it is currently worth 328M according to Forbes”, you are not running it like a business when you don’t do expensive improvements. You are running it like a kid with his hobby. The owners absolutely HAVE to open the purse strings. And remember, resigning Santana and Hunter would NOT have come out of OUR checking accounts!
Not thrilled about Morneau’s comments about not the team “not having much life on Sunday”. What does it take to get the team up for a game? They were in a virtual tie for first place and were playing the matinee game knowing the Sox were potentially rained out again in Chicago. They could have put the heat on the White Sox, but instead, melted in the Baltimore mid-September sunshine.
As for Punto, it is shameless that Gardy actually excused his first base fiasco passing the blame to Jerry White for signalling Punto to get back to the bag. Gardy’s interpretation was that White admitted to the first base umpire that Punto had made a mistake by turning the wrong way. Of course, no mention of the gaffe running to third base.
Punto is my most hated Twins player of All-TIME. In fact, he is the only Twins player I totally despise or ever despised.
I HATE NICK PUNTO and I HATE GARDY FOR PLAYING HIM AND HOLDING HIM ACCOUNTABLE FOR NONE OF HIS MISTAKES.
That settles it ! ! !
“Pay Less Expect More” Field !
RE FIRE:
1)I would say that’s a non issue. Just because payroll dropped 15m, mostly due to Hunter, Santana, and Silva leaving, it doesn’t mean they should immediately go out and spend that money foolishly. There is a core group of young, talented players that they want to develop. They were comfortable with them, so wasting money for the sake of spending to keep the fans happy would have been detrimental. Quite irresponsible as well.
2)Attendance is bad because us Minnesotans are fair weather fans. I hate to admit it, but we are. Even then, we can’t seem to pack stadiums. We sell out Vikings games, but last year was a struggle to. Twins games rarely sell out. Maybe that’s the stadium’s fault. I don’t know. But demanding that we spend more money, just to fill the stadium is also irresponsible. If you put a good product on the field, say a team in a pennant race, you’d expect more that 15,000 a game. Not the kind of thing that evokes a spending spree. The only way to then get in revenue is raising ticket prices, but the break even analysis there might not support that initiative.
3) So the value of the team has gone up. More than likely the case with most teams. However, that doesn’t mean he has to give back the mass profits and operate in the red. That isn’t an efficient business model. When a company grows like that, you are expected to either continue growth or find a steady figure to sustain profitability.
I think the motto is “Expect more, pay less”, but I like Adayacent”s idea better.
Roto, I know some very efficient businesses, very small and very large, who put lots and lots back into their businesses EVERY year. If you’re not going forward, you’re going backwards.
You operate for the lifetime, not a yearly balance.
“Attendance is bad because us Minnesotans are fair weather fans. I hate to admit it, but we are. Even then, we can’t seem to pack stadiums. We sell out Vikings games’
MN sports fans are Viking fans first and foremost and NFL rules over MLB.. maybe we just appreciate the better sport
RE Mudcat
You say, “When you buy something for “44M and it is currently worth 328M according to Forbes”, you are not running it like a business when you don’t do expensive improvements. You are running it like a kid with his hobby.”
I could not disagree with you more. In fact when a business grows from 44M to 328M, I’d say you are running it like a very successful business. In fact, as the team continues to succeed as a low REVENUE team, is a real success story. Pohlad knows how to squeeze a dollar. He sets payroll at 50% of revenue, if I remember right. This is a pretty solid and smart business model. Look at the Yankees. They spend gobs of money on washed up stars. Would you have wanted to be bound to Hunter or Santana’s contract in 4 years? I would say no.
Just like a Fortune 500 company, you grow and develop your talent when they are young and cheap. As they develop and get more expensive, you have to start letting people go and make decisions on who stays. They chose Nathan, Mauer, and Morneau. Hunter and Santana’s value were inflated at a price that wasn’t smart for a business of this specific revenue stream. Because of that, you allow some turnover and bring in the younger, cheaper replacements. The process continues in a cycle as you develop that talent. I’m proud to say I support and root for a team with a smart, efficient business model.
“I would say that’s a non issue. Just because payroll dropped 15m, mostly due to Hunter, Santana, and Silva leaving, it doesn’t mean they should immediately go out and spend that money foolishly….so wasting money for the sake of spending to keep the fans happy would have been detrimental. Quite irresponsible as well”
I and most on this blog with agree with me believe signing the Livan’s,Castro’s,Lamb’s,Batista’s,Everett’s is wasting money and quite irresponsible so sorry the drop of payroll by 15M is an issue especially when curiously Pohlad agreed to pay an extra 15M or so to purchase the land the stadium is being built on, quite a coincidence ..
Howard,
I agree with your “Head”.As much as I’d love to see the Twins pull this off I just can’t see it happening.There are to many problems popping up on an almost daily basis.
1.)The bullpen woes continue.
2.)It looks like Perkins and possibily Blackburn have hit the wall.
3.)The Offense continues to be inconsistant,especially on the road.
4.)The last seven road games are going to be very tough to survive,for the Sox series to matter.
5.)Last nights comeback by the Pale Hose might have sealed the deal as the Sox being the Cental Divisions team of destiny.
Realistically I think the Twins need to win five out of the seven remaining road games going into the final hometand.I just can’t see that happening.
That the Twins have managed to come this far,one and a half games out with two weeks left in the season,is remarkable in itself.If they don’t manage to somehow pull off a mini miracle it won’t detract from a very satisfying and fun season.
Hope I’m wrong!
How much is Carl Pohlad actively involved with the team? I saw him being wheeled out of one of the suites last season, and the man did not look well. As I passed in front of him, he spit on my shoe. I THINK it was an accident.
FIRE, that’s essentially what I’m saying. It seems like signing these players was a quick move to make the fans happy. We don’t sign them, and we have a 15m payroll drop and then people complain. So he makes a bigger profit. Fantastic, we are still in a playoff race. Seems like a win-win to me.
Roto the thing is teams like the yankees may make a lower profit % but the actuall dollar amount is a lot higher and that’s all that matters. Would you rather sell 1,000 tickets at a 50% profit or 10,000 at a 25% profit?
Roto, you’re comparing it too closely to a brick and mortar business. It’s not. There is way too much emotion and loyalty involved, the very thing that some families are based on. I stand firm when I say if it is going to be your hobby, put a bunch of your OWN money into it, which is what I do on MY hobby.
(just add six zeroes to the dollar amount)
I thought maybe, just maybe, the people who are paying for the stadium would have a say in it’s naming.
In a sense, they are. Target is the leading retailer in Hennepin County. I wouldn’t be surprised if more of the sales tax that funds the stadium comes through Target’s coffers than any other merchant. So, in a sense, people voted with their pocket books, which is exactly what all the no-tax, no-spend libertarians want our society to look like.
Rotoblinders you must have missed the start of the year the Twins had a 15M payroll drop AND they also signed a bunch of washed up vets(Livan,Lamb,Everett)!! they did both!! how sweet was that!
BC, it may be just me, but I’d like to turn a profit. It’s all about margin. The Yankees have a high payroll because of a high revenue stream. I’d be willing to bet that there is a pretty close corrolation to the Twins payroll using a scale. I would do a break even analysis on the 50 vs 25 percent profit. I would be the Twins do the same when they set ticket prices. In the end if you bring in $200m in revenue, but spend $185m on payroll and other expenses, you are not doing well in a business sense. But if you bring in $150m in revenue, while spending $75m in expenses and payroll, your bottom line is much better. This allows you to reinvest in the business. You cannot do that with a low profit margin.
I’m really not sure what you are saying right now FIRE. Are you trying to tell me that they should’ve spent this money on extensions for Hunter and Santana? Because that wouldn’t make sense. Young talent will need extensions in the future, so there isn’t a reason to kill 40% of the payroll on 2 players when they eventually become washed up.
I’ll agree those other signings were a waste of money, but there were holes, and they were options. They just didn’t pan out. In fact this just proves that the Twins don’t need to spend ridiculous amounts of money on free agents.
Fan interest is dropping off slightly because it’s been about twenty years since we’ve been in the World Series. This was the year to take the chance. We read about Sabathia, Manny, Griffey Jr, Pudge, and others. I don’t care how they worked out, I’m venting here.
We got Everyday Eddy.
That’s all we got.
I am not talking about extensions for Hunter and Johan.
they both said they would not stay with the Twins because the Twin’s never invest to win now.
I am saying STOP wasting money on washed up vets and pay big bucks for instance a 3rd baseman or a SS
And I agree with you there FIRE. I’m just saying there is no reason to throw an Adrian Beltre type contract at a one year wonder. The top guys we cannot afford. There’s a line between mortgaging the future to win now, and foolishly throwing money at players you think will help. Look at Seattle. Complete waste of money and future over there.
Mark J. Stiegel
give an email address and challenge bloggers to write you to see how fans completely agree with you…you will be amazed how high the numbers will be!
One year wonders boost team morale and instill confidence in a lot of different places.
I like one year wonders!
Roto i think we’re on the same page here. The thing is the differance between the Yankees revenue versus the Twins is there’s is far greater then $50 mil my bet is they have twice the revenue so there profit margin is greater.
Howard-
Does tonight’s starting lineup mean that you believe the Punto/ Gardy lovechild rumors?
FIRE GARDY & VAVRA!!!
I agree completely, we have to sign a solid SS and 3B this year…imagine our lineup if we had those positions settled
Don’t get me wrong i know the Twins can’t compete with the yankees because obviously there fan base is the biggest as well. I think more revenue sharing is required with a stipulation that teams have to use that money to increase payroll.
Oh absolutely BC, I was just throwing out numbers to prove a point about margin. I would bet the diff in revenue is close to $100m at least.
Someone should bitch slap Kyle Farnsworth for what he did last night after Detroit came back to tie the game - I was livid and bet Leyland was so torqued out that he couldn’t even talk. Why o why does Punto have to play everygame; let’s have some fairness to this whole situation because if Harris had made two blunders like Punto did he would have splinters in his butt from riding the bench for so long. Get a clue, Gardy! Go Twins!
They’ve got to do something, BC. The Yankees conveniently forget they have to play SOMEBODY.
I’ll agree that we should sign a 3B and SS this year. But who is available? Who is in our minors? Do we sign a 2B and move Casilla to SS? More specifically, lets say they spend money on both a 3B and SS. I’ll say to get a good one of each you’d be putting out roughly $17M in yearly payroll. Now in a couple years Mauer needs a new contract, our stud pitchers need a new contract, Delmon’s value in arbitration keeps increasing, and other factors. Where does this money come from? I think before we say that they HAVE to spend money on a top tier 3B and SS, we should look at the options and see if it fiscally responsible to give a huge contract to someone. I’ll agree we need an upgrade, but not if it means signing another Mike Lamb for a multi year deal.
Baseball COT confirms payroll dropped about $15M due mainly from Hunter and Santana previously paid $27M per (offset by Livan’s $5M and raises).
It’s fine to enjoy Santana’s cursed season, but don’t pretend it’s his own doing. He again is near the top in innings pitched. I choose to laugh in amazement at the combination of low run support AND blown saves. With Webb’s collapse, he would have been in Cy Young contention, but not with that win total.
Gardy has to go the way of Yost…
I wish Smith did it after the Detroit series.
I can’t believe that Punto is in the lineup today and a person that can’t run the bases is starting at DH.
I’ll be calling for Gardy to go join Ned if he doesn’t do something to juggle the rotation so our two weakest starters aren’t slated to start in the White Sox series. Yes, the Tampa Series will be tough, but at least losing those games doesn’t remove the possibility of the White Sox losing also and not losing any more ground. Clearly, the White Sox games are much more important games to win.
After spending the better part of the afternoon trying to defend Pohlad, who apparently is viewed along the same lines as Ken Lay, I won’t even begin to try and defend Gardy. Although I am still shocked when people say he should be fired.
I will just say this, many respected people in the league, fellow managers, and respected writers consistently talk about how great a manager Gardy is. In fact SI is saying that the Twins wouldn’t be where they are this year without Gardy. I will trust players and MLB people’s opinions before I listen to reactionary fans calling for his head.
Rotobinders,
those ‘experts’ also picked the Twins to finish 4th or 5th in the division…
And we know you picked them to win the division with 90 wins. Pat yourself on the back quick.
moving on…..
Regardless, the makeup of the team is young. I would say combination of the leadership from Morneau and Mauer and Gardy’s philosophy, they are were they are consistently. A bad manager doesn’t win multiple division crowns. If the Twins don’t win the division, the blame goes on the bullpen first and foremost.
ok the name should be HCTPP.
and that is henn co tax payer park
even if you dont go to ball games you still
have to pay why didnt they just make target buy it to start with how about giving back to me the small guy who goes to maybe 1 game a year. i and every other henn co tax payer should get a check every couple months or why not tax the whole state this a touchey sbject for me cause our dome tax turned into convention center tax then turned into…….tax so
thank for letting me vent
p.s. you can call in tax park
If you’re gonna complain about the sales tax, call for it to be called “Hennepin County Consumer Park.” While I think it’s stupid for a sales tax to be levied for something as a private an entity as a baseball stadium, it’s really not worth getting upset about. Say you spend $5000 on taxable items per year in Hennepin County, which might be about right, but I’m just guessing. You contributed $7.50 to the stadium.
wow…. wonder who’s going to back into the playoffs from the AL Central? Tighty Whities really REALLY playing like they want to give up their playoff spot, but the Twins just don’t seem to want it either. Maybe they oughta just let Toronto go instead of both of em.
Thank you Steve. That’s what I’ve been trying to tell people. They just see the overall price of the stadium and then they think they are paying the entire amount.
Spot on Howard, spot on.
I just keep repeating to myself the line from your other post a few days ago. We’re running out of tomorrows.
Sigh.
On Minnesota Twins message boards, there is a grass roots petition going to collect signatures urging the front office NOT TO RE-SIGN PUNTO. I would personally sign it 15,000 times if I could.
Howard said — “I’m glad that Gardy has decided not to offer up a No. 6 starter as a sacrifice for this one.” [referring to this Wednesday’s game]
I totally disagree. Here’s why. I just posted this on Joe’s blog:
“I have no confidence in the Twins winning the tiebreaker, if needed. Perkins will start. It will be in Chicago.
Anything less than a 1-1/2 game lead by the end of the season for the Twins will probably result in them not getting into the playoffs.
If the lead is only 1/2 game, I believe the Chisox will beat Detroit in Chicago in the one last game on the 29th. They will then sit and wait for the Twins to fly in and will beat the Twins on the 30th.
So, I believe the Twins will need to win 3 more games than the Chisox in their next 12 games.”
LOL. Still think Boof should start Wednesday. Lee’s gonna win anyway.
P.S. As I posted on the 13th, by giving Baker his 4 days rest and starting him Thursday instead, he will be in line to start the tiebreaker on the 29th with 4 days rest.
The way it is now, the tiebreaker will be started by Perk with 4 days rest, or by Blackburn with 3 days rest.
And, once again, starting Baker on Thursday instead of Wednesday will give the Twins better starting pitching vs the White Sox.
Liriano would face Chicago instead of, essentially, Blackburn.
Neutrally, Baker would replace Liriano, essentially, in the Rays series. And Blacburn would replace Baker, essentially, in the KC series. (Blackburn can pitch well again vs KC.)
[See my post on the 13th for details.]
And if Boof is injured, as someone has rumored I think, start Humber Wednesday to be followed by Mijares and Korecky.
BTW, looks like Cliff Lee will start the last game in Chicago on the 28th.
How could anyone pick the name of “Target Field” or if someone said TCF field. Just no imagination here. Let’s start the whole name the stadium all over again…
<iHow could anyone pick the name of “Target Field”
When it comes to naming rights, that’s how things work.
I wish it would’ve been a different company (since we’ve already got the Target Center), but I’ll live.
It’s not like they’re taking a historic stadium and renaming it (Comisky, The Jake)
My post on the 13th took me 45 minutes to compile. Now I’m making the second correction to it. (At least I get an “A” for effort.)
A tiebreaker would be on the 30th, not the 29th. Perkins could pitch that game on 5 days rest, or Blackburn on 4 days rest, or Slowey on 3 days rest.
I suppose they would choose Blackburn, so I still wouldn’t like our chances.
If they start a 6th starter tomorrow (Wed) instead of Baker, Baker would be in line to pitch the tiebreaker on 5 days rest.
Since no one seems to care, looks like the subject is closed.
Oh well, at least I tried.
