Bring J.J. Hardy and bullpen help, please
Posted on November 12th, 2008 – 1:15 PMBy Howard
The free-agent season opens at midnight and — news flash — the Twins aren’t gonna get CC Sabathia or Mark Teixeria. And there are a lot of players on the market whom, if put together in various 25-man combinations, could guarantee a 95-loss season.
It’s pretty clear that the Twins need to figure out a way to increase their right-handed power, improve the left side of the infield and (after yesterday’s news about Pat Neshek) find a couple of arms to compete in the bullpen mix. The Twins are in a strange place, for them, with our bullpen trust level as low as it is — and I’m not going to be the one to say that Crain and Guerrier are going to bounce back to their former selves. At least there should be enough veteran and sleeper talent on the market for the Twins to set up a healthy competition for a couple of right-handed relief spots at spring training.
The big question for me is bringing in someone who can hit the ball — hard and out of the park. I think we can get beyond the “that person has to field his position well” thing because of the Twins’ willingness to use Brian Buscher at third base and Brendan Harris at any position that requires a glove. So if a new guy comes in with a suspect defensive reputation, I’m willing to adopt a “so be it” approach.
I also suspect the Twins are going to have to give something to get something. In other words, don’t expect the answers to come from the free-agent market.
Casey Blake would have made a better half-season addition for the playoff drive in 2008 than he’ll make as a three-season investment at third base. He’s that old and I’m not sold that he’s that much of an upgrade over the Buscher/Harris thing. Orlando Cabrera doesn’t get much love from the Twins beyond the field staff (You can read that as the front office checking him out and not liking the reports) so don’t expect him to be the Opening Day shortstop in 2009.
I’m expecting the Twins to make a strong run at J.J. Hardy, the Milwaukee shortstop-who-could-probably-play-third-base-depending-on-what-other-moves-are-made. Hardy has hit 50 home runs over the last two seasons and would either give the Twins a different profile at shortstop (power hitting/OK defense) or another corner infielder with power. Keep in mind that the Twins have the option of moving Alexi Casilla to shortstop and opening second base to competition. The likely departure of Sabathia from Milwaukee contributes to the idea of a trade involving one of the Twins starters. (Would they ask for Slowey and accept Blackburn or Perkins?)
The bullpen could be a trickier issue. There are already reports that the Rockies are taking on Huston Street in the Matt Holliday deal with the idea of turning around and sending him elsewhere. Would the Rockies and Twins explore a deal that centered on Street and Cuddyer or Delmon? Otherwise, bringing in guys to compete with Guerrier/Crain/Bonser/Breslow is pretty much of an educated guessing game. For each Breslow who comes in and provides unexpected help — and I’m not convinced that he’s a long-term answer — there are several Carmen Cali-types who get their big chance and make the least of it.
Unfortunately, as seemed to be a trendy discovery in 2008, when you turn starting pitching into a six-inning game on a daily basis, you need a whole bunch of relievers in which you have faith. The Twins obviously didn’t have that last year and — while we’re paying attention to the bullpen for 2009 — I hope that one of the things being written on the whiteboard at organizational meetings is the need to raise the bar on the young starting pitchers, in terms of them handling more of their own stuff.
I hope that another thing being written is, “Can someone fix Matt Guerrier?” I don’t want to have to use the word “Rinconian” next season to describe his career path
The most interesting part of the off-season is that most of what happens doesn’t come with a build-up. The Santana thing last year was an exception because the entire winter was spent in opera about his departure. But the “for whom” cascaded rapidly from the original speculation (”You think the Twins can get Cano and Melky Cabrera?”) to which package of youth was the better deal. The Delmon deal pretty much came out of the blue, as did the free-agent signings — however ham-gloved, weak-armed and bat-impaired they turned out tobe. Better luck this year, Bill Smith.
So I’m pretty much going to wait for something unanticipated to happen. And I’m also going to start wondering — because it’s never too early to fret about this stuff — whether Scott Boras will still be Carlos Gomez’ agent when he approaches free agency in a few years.
85 Responses to "Bring J.J. Hardy and bullpen help, please"
The Twins can sign a big free agent with all the $ they’ll save giving Punto a bus ticket.
I think Korecky is ready to be a full-time big leaguer. He and Mijiris should be able to setup for Nathan, depending on R/L situations in the 7th/8th innnings. I agree that Guerrier and Crain are not the answer (they are at best middle relief pitchers).
As for power hitting righty; are there any discussions about Beltre? I would give up Perkins and Young for him and then bat him after Morneau (so justin can actually get a good pitch to hit).
Hopefully by the time Gomez hit’s free agency we’ll have guys like Angel Morales, Aaron Hicks and/or Ben Revere ready and waiting to fill his spot to make the reality that he’s not resigning easier to take.
“Would they ask for Slowey and accept Blackburn or Perkins?)”
You’re joking … right??!!! Maybe Blackburn AND Perkins …
The rumoured Cameron/Hall/Villinueva for Span/Slowey/TBNL is more realistic …
think of this lineup:
span
casilla
mauer
morneau
beltre
kubel
cuddyer
punto/tolbert/harris
gomez
Good post. Hardy is at the top of my wish list. And if the Twins are going to trade an outfielder, they should trade Cuddyer, rather than Delmon — it’d be silly to give up on Mr. Young after one season.
Adding Hardy and getting bullpen help would make for a solid team next year …
I don’t want Cameron, Hall or Villinueva - they are all terrible. Slowey, Span and even the PTBNL are all better than those guys.
I know that Twins fans have a tendency to overrate their own players, but for Brewers fans to think those guys are any good is ridiculous.
Pete -
In what universe would the Twins ever acquire rougly $25MM in annual salary with Cameron/Hall/Villanueva for 3 players who are being paid a serf’s salary? Not to mention that Slowely is probably emerging as solid #2 starter and while Span lack’s power, he’s going to get on base much more than Cameron and provide better glove.
Not going to happen. Not now, not ever.
I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss a Blackburn or Perkins for Hardy offer. The Crew’s pitching staff could be undergoing some serious turnover.
Oh please not Bill Hall. He is no upgrade unless you like strikeouts. And don’t trade Span. I love him in the field and his approach at the plate. Actually I think we can weather losing Perkins, Blackburn or Slowey as well as we weathered losing Garza. In my opinion Garza is a good pitcher for TB but may not have ever been a good Twins pitcher. But not Blackburn AND Perkins.
“Hardy has hit 50 home runs over the last two seasons and would either give the Twins a different profile at shortstop (power hitting/OK defense)”
Hardy is ranked as the second best fielding SS in the majors according to this NY Post article.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11042008/sports/yankees/worst_fielder_in_majors_136772.htm
I really hope the Twins don’t trade PTBNL. He is my favorite player. His defense is solid and I think his bat will come around.
Hardy is pipe-dream that will never come true. We can’t part with Baker, Liriano, or Slowey.
matt,
Interesting article and perspective. My preference is for the zone-rating family of defensive statistics — original and revised.
More wood for the hot stove, please.
shameless,
I agree. And, all three of those guys have had arm and shoulder problems, as has Perkins, and I don’t see alot of depth down on the farm. You almost have to count these days on losing at least one starter for at least part of the season to some type of injury.
Adam S:
Are you serious? That team wouldn’t win as many as this years. We need 2 big hitters, one of which is either a ss or 3rd baseman. Then we need TWO relievers. Anything less than that and the offseason would considered a failure!
How about JJ Hardy for Perkins and and upper level prospect? Then, maybe go out and get an Abreu, whose a stud hitter and still got some pop! I would be awful excited if we could trade Cuddy or Young for Atkins too! We would fill two needs: a ss and an extra outfielder/dh that has a good eye and power. I wonder if the Marlins would part with Uggla?
Can you imagine this roster:
Span LF
Mauer C
Abreu DH
Morneau 1st
Atkins 3rd
Hardy SS
Young or Cuddy (depends on whose traded) RF
Gomez CF
Casilla 2nd
This lineup would give you speed at the top and bottom of the lineup, eccentially leadoff hitter at top and bottom. It would also give you 4 players that will hit for at least .300 in the middle of the lineup. Also, you will have a minumum of 4 players with the potential of 20-30 homeruns from 2-7. And that’s ot even thinking of Young and Cuddy on that list. So we get 5 players with 20+ homeruns, some of which will get 30+ and a team that has great eyes in the 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 slots (meaning walks and OB%=averages). We will also be a terror on the basepaths with Span, Casilla, Gomez and Hardy stealing a ton of basepaths. Kubel can be a spot fillin in the outfielder and the left handed power hitter off the bench. I’d keep Harris as the backup ss and third baseman. Cuddy or Abreu can spot fillin at first. Punto or Hughes can be the other backup infielder.
Now we still would need a minimum of two middle relievers. One left handed and one right handed. Nathan is all world closer for us still! Then we are set for a pennant contending year! I’d like to see another team matchup with this roster! 91 wins minimum!
Maybe Baker had a neck problem. But it connects the two shoulders…
Wait, they make shortstops that can hit 20 HR a year?
The only thing I don’t like about that linup of mine earlier is too many lefties hitiing back-to back. Maybe switch Abreu and Hardy in the 3 and six spots. That would give you Left, Left, Right, Left, right, left, right, right switch hitter! Shut my mouth!
Why would the Rockies want to trade for another OF? They have Hawpe, Gomez, and Tavaris.
If they can get JJ Hardy to sign a waiver saying he will NEVER dive head first into 1st, then he will be an accepted member of the team.
Here’s a couple scenarios I like:
Blackburn-Cuddy-minor leaguer for Atkins/Street
Blackburn-minor leaguer for JJ Hardy
I would prefer to keep Blackburn and trade Perkins, but I feel that Blackburn is a better trade chip. I think with guys in the minors like Mulvey and Swarzack.
Also, would it be smarter to get a stopgab 3B for 2 years. Say Casey Blake or keep the rotating Harris/Buscher/Tolbert. Then assume Valencia is 1-2 years away from the majors.
My extent of the minor league affiliate knowledge is stat lines and whatever I read. Does anyone have a solid foundation of guesses on when we can expect Valencia, Hughes, Tolleson, or Dinkelman will be up?
If the Twins could sign Casey Blake to play third base, trade either Perkins or Blackburn (and maybe a couple of pitching prospects) for JJ Hardy, then work a three way trade that would bring in Huston Street (Nathan won’t be here forever and Street could become the closer eventually) for either Cuddy or Delmon (after a year of watching Delmon swing at first pitches and flail at sliders three feet outside, I can’t belive that I am going to say this, but here goes, I would prefer trading Cuddy over Delmon), I think this team would be ready to make a serious run for the whole ball of wax. I bet that is the single longest sentence ever posted on this blog. Go Twins!
What about Brandon Lyon for relief help? I know his era was a bit high this past year, but I think if you take him out of the closer role he would be solid. Only problem may be that too many teams need a closer and his price might be too high for a setup guy.
Matt, JJ hardy’s zone rating for his career is 40 points lower than Nick Punto’s with the same fielding percentage. So in essence Punto gets to more balls and commits the same amount of errors. I don’t care what that NY Post article says where Panel Members vote who they think is best. Don’t get me wrong Hardy is a solid fielder but I don’t think he’s a gold glove candidate by any means (that could change with a real 1B in Morneau as opposed to the poor fielding Fielder, to pick balls out of the dirt)
Trade for Brian Roberts. They will want minor leaguers plus Blackburn or Perkins. He is a one year guy so you don’t have to give up AS much as Hardy. Plus he is a plus fielder at 2B and you can move Casilla over. He is also a better overall hitter than Hardy.
I doubt the Brewers will go for Perkins and Blackburn even together. They don’t have the projection to more than 4th & 5th Starters. I think the Brewers would want Slowey or Baker or Liriano plus minor league talent. I wouldn’t go for that.
I’d get rid of Punto, Guerrier and Reyes. I wouldn’t offer arbitration to Guerrier. That would save about 4 million for all. I’d try and trade Crain/Bonser either in the Roberts deal or in Crain’s case just to dump his contract.
I’d use Tolbert who could fill Puntos position. I’d try and sign Jeremy Affeldt for a 7th inning guy. Go Mijares for the 8th. Breslow for the 6th and against lefties. I’d bring in Kornecky & Humber for long relief. Maybe try Slama out as well. He put up crazy numbers in low A and is getting old. I’d keep a platoon at 3B with Harris and Buscher. One hits righties well and one lefties. Both suck at fielding.
I’d also try to sign Jamie Moyer to a 1yr deal. Like 10 million for one year. He has plus command and has proven he can pitch in both leagues. If you just have him with Liriano-Baker-Slowey-Perkins/Blackburn you have top starting pitching. Even with Moyer, Roberts and Affledt taking up probably 21 million you still have a payroll under 75 million. All are plus upgrades. With improvement from Young and Gomez. Cuddyer hitting 270-15-75 hopefully I would say playoffs.
Is Guzman a possibility for short stop? Imagine another speedster in the lineup causing havoc to the pitcher!! Fun, fun, fun!
Seemed like his defense was pretty good when he was here…has it gone up or down since?
Just a curiosity…
So if you really want to go by zone rating, then Miguel Tejada, Chase Utley, and Bill Hall all should have been talked about as gold glove candidates last season as they either had the top zone rating for their position or at least top 3 in the mlb. I never said that Hardy should win a gold glove, I was just pointing out that Hardy is an above average fielder and more than capable (he wouldn’t be a liability) of playing SS here.
[…] A Fan’s View – […]
Casilla is not going to move to 2B - at least that is what La Velle reported once the season ended. He wrote that since Casilla established himself at 2B there is no rush to move him.
I’m sorry, but there is no way we are getting Hardy for Blackburn, no matter how many minor leaguers we throw into the deal. Hardy is a power-hitting SS who helps out the club every day. Blackburn, as much as we like him, will never be anything more than a no. 4 starter, plus he’s not exactly a spring chicken, so you can’t consider him a prospect anymore. You don’t give up everyday players who hit for power unless you’re getting a premium player in return. Considering how desperate the Twins have been for power hitting infielders the past 15 years, you’d think we as fans would understand that.
For all those who want Korecky in the bullpen this year, take a look at his winter ball stats. He’s getting shelled in Venezuela. He has a 6.39 ERA and that is way down from where it was last week.
Guzman…shortstop? Urk. Too much money for a guy that took forever to finaly earn the contract he got from the Nats.
As far as Huston Street is concerned, he’s not worth what the Rockies will no doubt ask for. We already have Neshek getting TJ surgery, so why give up anybody just so our doctors can operate on Street as well? He is perennially injured and making $3.3 million. Might as well use that money on an everyday player because if you waste it on Street, not only will our roster be weakened by who we give up for him, we will still have to rely on guys like Breslow, Guerrier, Crain, and Mijares anyways once Street gets hurt.
Hardy would probably be the best available IF solution, but assuming the Brewers are serious about making him available, there will be no shortage of teams willing to bid on him. The price, in terms of talent, would be high. Whether the Twins would be in the ballpark or not would depend on how the Brewers FO feels about the Twins young pitching. I doubt the Twins will be willing to give up more than one of their current SPs and I would guess Milwaukee wants MLB-ready arms because they consider themselves a contender in 2009.
It’s just such a thin market right now in terms of available (via trade or FA) power hitting infielders, that it’s going to be expensive, either in $/yrs for FA or players for a trade, to acquire anyone that will really be a difference-maker.
The Brewers are very high on Escobar (their AA shortstop), and also will likely lose their top two starters (CC and Sheets), so they will need to find some starters somehow if they want to make it back to the playoffs. They also finished 5th in the majors in HRs, so they might be willing to give up some of that power for pitching.
I think the Brewers will consider offers for Hardy, but they certainly won’t trade him cheap… nor will they be compelled to. I would guess they’ll try to get arms for Cameron first, then if that doesn’t work listen to offers for Hardy. I just think it’s a very long shot that he would end up a Twin this offseason.
And Howard, I had forgotten that Gomez’s agent is Boras. That, in itself, moves him to the top of the list of Twins OFs that I’d trade if the decision is made to thin the OF herd. He’s a potential gold glove CF, but he’s clearly got problems with the bat and when you add the fact that, as a Boras client, there’s no way he remains a Twin beyond his arbitration years, yeah… he’s #1 on the “expendable OF” list in my book… especially since it appears Span can handle the CF job just fine.
I think the Twins should seriously look at trading Liriano. I would be willing to trade him for Hardy straight up actually.
Trade Crain, Bonser and Guerrier for ANYbody or ANYthing. They are all over the hill and terrible and surely Humber and Manship and a reliever picked up in a trade will be far better.
Get Joe Crede for 3b. Period. He is the 2nd coming of Gary Gaetti, a power hitting 3b with a great glove. he know he has had back issues but take a chance for cripes sake. Use Buscher as his backup and part time replacement. Get rid of Delmon “Dead from the Neck up” Young and Cuddyer. Go after Hardy strong, I don’t care if you have to part with Perkins, package Young or Cuddyer in there too.
With our pen we are going to have to outslug some people and we have a bunch of punch and judy hitters on our team.
Personally I think Bill Smith is a bozo and needs the pink slip. The guy who brought us Everett, Monroe, Lamb, Livan and left Liriano hanging on the minor league vine so long that we missed the playoffs by one game, then orchestrated 2 horrible trades, losing Garza and the Ray’s MVP Bartlett, and losing Santana and instead of getting Ellsbury and possibly Lester, or having Johann on the team last year and winning the AL Central and then getting 2 first round draft picks as compensation we get squat.
I say give him one more year and if he doesn’t show at least a hint of business acumen, ship his sorry rear out of there.
Trading for Hardy is intriguing. However, the Twins are perennially “desperate for power” because the club never goes out and gets any. Why would this year be any different?
Gardenhire should not be brought back as Manager of the Twins. He always makes errors in judgement. If the Twins could get ride of Gardenhire, Cuddyer, and Punto…their performance would be greatly enhanced.
We’ll need to part with Slowey and Swarzak to get J.J. Hardy. Personally, I think Hardy fits a key piece to our puzzle. After that, it doesn’t much matter what we do regarding thirdbase. Buscher and Harris can be a serviceable platoon or you could park Tolbert there as well. Would we be even better with a power bat at third, of course but I don’t know if we can afford to trade away that much pitching. Cuddyer for Atkins would be nice but I doubt that is enough to get the deal done. If they take a minor league pitching prospect then ok but I doubt that gets the deal done. Then again, Atkins numbers aren’t that great that he warrants one of our starting pitchers and Cuddyer.
“The free-agent season opens at midnight and — news flash — the Twins aren’t gonna get CC Sabathia or Mark Teixeria.”
Funny, a month ago there was actual discussion on these blogs about a scenario that would bring Manny Ramirez to Minnesota. This kind of thinking is precisely why I don’t get too deep into free agency discussions.
However, can I make a pitch for my man Dougie…
Let’s assume the Twins are going to balk at shoring up a legitimate third baseman once again. Why not bring in Dougie? He can back up Morneau at first and he can play some third base…he’ll rejuveniate the fan base and he’ll be a positive figure in the clubhouse.
Plus, we need to figure out what in the world to do with Nick Punto. Howard, I suggest a poll…
you can cover the entire spectrum…everything from ignore him entirely to bank on him as your everday shortstop…
I think it will require more than people think for Hardy. I think it might require Slowey and Blackburn. I wouldnt do that trade, but I think it might require that. Hardy is a very good shortstop who is only 26 years old, not some older veteran, this guy is just coming into his prime as a player. I’ve heard whispers from my friend in Boston that the Red Sox might do a Jed Lowrie,Clay Bucholtz,Justin Masterson deal for Hardy. Thats the kind of deal it will take to do this Twins fans. Boston can upgrade its pitching via free agency Ben Sheets, AJ Burnette, so losing Masterson wont hurt as much and Hardy would replace Lowrie and Bucholtz has potential which is why he’s a great trading piece but hasnt shown it yet.
Here is what I would do:
# Trade Glenn Perkins, Brian Buscher and a prospect or two to the Cardinals for Troy Glaus to Seattle for Brian Beltre or to Astros for Ty Wigginton ($12M)
# Trade Boof Bonser to the Padres for Khalil Greene ($6.5M)
# Trade Alexi Casilla, Brian Duensing and Phillip Humber to the Marlins for Dan Uggla ($5M)
# Sign Pedro Martinez ($6M) for 4th starter (Blackie 5th)
# Sing one of Jeremy Affeldt, Doug Brocail, Juan Cruz, Bobby Howry for the pen ($4M)
Total $33.5, which would bring the Twins’ payroll to $76 Million, or $4.5 million more than their 2007 payroll.
Very doable.
lineup (and batting order):
LF Span
RF Young
C Mauer
3B Glaus
1B Morneau
2B Uggla
DH Kubel
SS Greene
CF Gomez
bench:
C Redmond
IF Harris
IF Tolbert/Tolleson/Hughes
OF/DH/1B Cuddyer
rotation:
SP Liriano
SP Slowey
SP Baker
SP Martinez
SP Blackburn
bullpen:
Joe Nathan RH
new frew agent RH
Jose Mijares LH
Craig Breslow LH
Jesse Crain RH
Korecky/Swarzak/Mulvey/Delaney RH
Matt Guerrier RH
I think it will require more than people think for Hardy
yes and no. I thought that it would have taken more for Holliday. In Twins’ players equivalents, the As got Holliday for the equivalent of Bonser, Neshek and Pridie. Given that Hardy is not Holliday and that Neshek is out of the question, Perkins, Crain and Pridie (or Dustin Martin) should be more than enough for Hardy.
Take a chance on Crede. One year 3M with a 10M option. If he’s hurt we go with Harris/Buscher, if not we’ve got our guy through 2010. Our farm system will have to produce by 2011.
Jama, I would take Hardy for Liriano in a heartbeat. In fact, he’s the starter that I’d like to deal the most (high current value/injury risk).
Crede is a .257/.306/.447 career hitter. Tony Batista- like (actually Tony was a .251/.299 /.453)
The Twins should just do what they always did when they needed more power. Turn on the air conditioner to full blast…
What I want to know is why Howard is so set on getting Delmon out of here as fast as possible?
Yeah he “only” hit .290. .290! If that’s a down year sign me up.
Yeah he “only” hit 10 home runs. But that still makes him the third most prolific home run hitter the Twins had this year.
And yeah, he was down from 13 to 10 homers this year, but he had 70 more at-bats the previous year, plus had an awful start this year with a homerless first 2 months, which I think can reasonably be assumed is an anomaly.
Plus, the avg. age for a hitters prime is 26-27, which means Delmon should be improving, maybe dramatically in the next couple of seasons, unless you think the dreaded “Twins way” will turn him into a singles hitter…in which case you can assume the same thing for JJ Hardy, A-Rod or any other home run hitter they bring in.
So why all the Delmon hate Howard?
Hi everyone
I will be the first (and last it seems from all these posts) to be in Blackburn’s corner. The guy busts his butt and provides us with the start we needed against our hated rivals and you all want to trade him for an above average 3B or a pretty good SS. Starting pitching is key in this league; when you can go through the entire rotation save perkins once in awhile and not have to worry that much i think you should be pretty happy eh? these other teams should be willing to take on guys like humber if they are that desparate for starting pitching
that said, i think this team needs hitting. i am more than open to trading something like cuddy and humber for a guy like atkins or that combo plus perkins for someone like hardy (yes that seems a bit low but think about it, they get two starting pitchers - humber would be 4 or 5 on a ton of teams and perkins would be 3 or 4 on as many). id venture to even throw in bonser - the guy still has potential and would be a starter on some teams.
this team is set at the pen, i dont know what they all are freaking out about; breslow is sick and a very reliable 7th inning guy and im more than happy to pass him the ball if mijares (whose ridiculously good) is tired for an 8th inning fill in. Korecky is the other guy - he’s got the late inning mentality drilled into him and hes got good stuff; he’ll make a good set up man. crain i think will be a nice middle inning guy next year.
this team also has some room in the cap - there will be a hitter out there who will be a reasonable buy: blake or crede can be had for a decent price and will give us the extra hitter we need and can be had for a decent price (probably 5-6 mill a year?). if we can trade for hardy without giving up the house i think we will be set next year. the young guys will be one year better and the vets will be one year wiser. Go Twins!
There’s a reason the Twins haven’t even mentioned Crede’s name but have mentioned Atkins and Blake. Put Crede at 3B at the Metrodome with a bad back and make him flop around on the turf and you’ll see what I mean.
An open letter to William Smith, aka Bill, GM of the Mn Twins:
Please Mr Smith, let’s not give up valuable trade assets for relief pitching. You have one choice with the bullpen next year: open it up to competition in the spring and let the best pitchers win.
JJHardy: Nice player. Will cost way too much in trade. Want to give up Scott Baker? Me neither. They will want him, plus more. Does anybody here really think in your heart of hearts that Blackburn or Slowey or Perkins is going to be the centerpiece of a JJ Hardy trade? Please.
FA: I said it b4, and am saying it again: Dont overlook Orlando Hudson. He fits. He’s better than Casilla. A lot better than Casilla. Our offense and defense are instantly better with Hudson. Casilla can move to SS or be traded. If we had Hudson, Blake or Crede would make sense for 1-2 years, and keep Buscher around to platoon. And the 3B platoon should then be available to give Morneau an ocassional day off.
# Trade Alexi Casilla, Brian Duensing and Phillip Humber to the Marlins for Dan Uggla ($5M)
Do you think the Marlins would let somebody pry him away?
rayreiner, you are making sense. Hardy would cost too much. Think of another sound defensive SS that pops 20-25HRs on the market via FA or trade. I rest my case. He’ll cost too much. Contrarily, 3B options are plentiful and cheap. Unfortunately, they aren’t that much of an upgrade over Buscher/Harris platoon.
I would concentrate of SS Pick up JJ Hardy if they can, dump Pop up Punto and although I like him, he has become as durable as Gaborik, Cuddy. We need to keep Buscher at third, let him grow into the role, go back and look at Casey Blakes first years, Buscher is far and away the better player. I see Buscher at 285/15/85, have faith. Dump Matty G, make up the rest, mid relievers are always a crap shoot.
Do you think the Marlins would let somebody pry him away?
Yes.
The Marlins brass is on record saying that they want to build a team based on speed and defense (the most recent link of that nth iteration this off-season provided below)
After their trade with the Nats, they have a third baseman (Bonaficio, that’s where they place him), a first baseman (Cantu) and are set in SS for years (H. Ramirez). They would trade Uggla for something that would bring them more pitching and defense and speed (and I think that a package based around Casilla and pitching prospects would suffice) and still be fine in the power department with Cantu, Ramirez and Ross. I think that it might be a win-win for both teams and the Marlins have been pretty decent trade partners with the Twins recently.
T
For Hardy - Blackburn or Perkins along with Boof and Tolbert. Brewers get two starting pitchers and a shortstop. We get the righthanded power hitter we need. Absolutely no way do we include Slowey. The big three untouchable pitchers are Liriano, Baker and Slowey. I don’t think we trade Delmon unless it is a trade that blows us away. And Cuddyer stays as the righthanded power threat unless we get a guy like Hardy.
thrylos98, you obviously know little about the game. Your trades/FA signings border on the absurd. And, most of what you claim about the availability of other players is crap you’ve just made up.
rayreiner, if Orlando Hudson is so superior to Alexi, then why don’t you suggest moving Hudson to SS, since it is, without question, the more difficult of the two positions?
Seriously people JJ Hardy is out of reach. The crew will want an arm and a leg for this guy. He’s got it all and he’s going to get better. If we give them two of our starters (perkins and blackburn) or even one of our good starters (Liriano, Slowey, Baker) then we’ll be short of pitching.
We need to get Atkins and Street. Sure Hardy would be better but the crew doesn’t want Cuddy and we need him to be the OF that go’s in the deal.
Who cares if Go-Go leaves when he hits free agency, Revere will be ready to take his place by then.
SS that’s the one that I can’t figure out. Hardy would be nice but Power hitting SS aren’t cheap! If you don’t believe me ask around.
Lala72,
Beser mit a klugn in gehenem eyder mit a nar in ganeydn
I still say make a deal for Uggla, and move Casilla over to SS. JJ Hardy will cost us more in a trade than Uggla. They both hit HR’s. I say Uggla.
You’ve got to love baseball’s early offseason. Everybody’s got their own video game fantasy lineup.
Let’s trade Mauer for A-Rod.
shameless,
Power hitting SS aren’t cheap!
Khalil Greene is cheap and his career SLG is .427, pretty close to Hardy’s .446. Factor in the park and I think that he is a bargain
I don’t think Dan Uggla’s defensive gems at the All Star game won over Gardy, thus I doubt he will be a Twin.
JJ Hardy or bust.
thrylos98….
I honestly don’t no much about Greene or how cheaply he could be aquired. So how cheap is this Khalil Greene?
thrylos98…
I don’t think Gardy’s interested in having another guy who strikes out too much. It’s not “Twins Baseball”(unless it’s gomez then it’s ok???).
Greene will make $5.5 million next year.
“In 2008, Greene got off to a terrible start offensively, not hitting a home run until May 2. As of the end of July he was hitting only .213 with 10 home runs and 35 RBI and 5 stolen bases. On July 30, 2008, Greene broke his hand while hitting a storage box after striking out for the 100th time in 2008 and his batting average dropped to .213. On July 31, it was announced Greene would miss the rest of the season.”
Not a great 2008 there. I think you would say Punto had a better season.
I like JJ Hardy. I’m not willing to trade Liriano or Baker to get him. Creating a package around future potential 2nd tier starters will not get it done for him.
Lala72: You raise a good point about Hudson and Casilla. I think the reason why Hudson plays 2B is because he’s won two gold gloves occupying the spot. I am not yet prepared to pronounce Casilla Orlando Hudson’s peer with the leather.
Let’s face it folks. It’s much easier said than done when it comes to finding reliable power. Twins have been looking for right handed power since Puckett’s last day. Just because the need is there doesnt mean the few possibilities that presently exist in the trade mart match up well. The Twins are still built around pitching and defense. They need to maintain that commitment. It will get them much further at the end of the day than some foolish hoped for “silver bullet” solution to their perennial power problems.
Unless, of course, Uncle Carl decides to spend a few million of his hard earned coin to sign Manny Ramirez. He is in reality about the closest thing out there to a silver-bullet solution. I, for one, would be all in favor of signing Manny Ramirez. Or maybe we wait until next year, and trade Brian Duensing, Anthony Swarzak, Ben Revere, Matt Tolbert, Mike Redmond, and 3 used copy machines to whoever Manny happens to be playing for at the time. Who could refuse such a generous offer on our part?
Khalil Greene has been doghoused in San Diego so he is as cheap as they come.
Greene’s career AB/K (4.6) is right about where Cuddyer’s is (4.7), so Gardy would love that 
Not a great 2008 there. I think you would say Punto had a better season.
&
As of the end of July he was hitting only .213 with 10 home runs
Punto had 10 home runs in a season in a wet dream. As a matter of fact he has 11 career HRs and Greene would have been 3rd in the Twins lineup in home runs as of that July.
I’ll second that, on expecting more from the young starters. Gardenhire has to leave them out there and let them battle through some late inning situations where they have to bear down and get some tough outs. I’m tired of his quick hook with his starters. Let them battle it out, rather than treating them like pansies and not showing any confidence in them to get a couple extra outs when their starting to get tired.
HERE IS THE STARTING LINEUP FOR THE MINNESOTA TWINS IN 2009
SPAN
ALEXI
MAUER
HARDY
MORNEAU
JOE CREDE
DELMON YOUNG
JASON KUBEL
GOMEZ
STARTING PITCHING
BAKER
LIRIANO
SLOWEY
BLACKBURN
HUMBER/MULVEY/DUENSING
BULLPEN
NATHAN
FUENTES
STREET
MIRAJES
BRESLOW
GUIETEREZ
AFFELDT
IN TRADING FOR HARDY/STREET - GIVE UP PERKINS, BONSER, GUIERRER, CUDDYER/PRIDDIE/MARTIN -
JOE CREDE AND FUENTES ARE FREE AGENTS
BENCH RESERVES
REDMOND
BUSHER
CUDDYER IF NOT TRADED
TOLBERT
GO TWINS
HERE IS MY SUGGESTION - USE PERKINS,BONSER,GUIERRER, CUDDYER,PRIDDIE
MARTIN TO TRADE FOR HARDY, STREET SIGN JOE CREDE - BRIAN FUENTES WHO ARE FREE AGENTS. YOU INCREASE IN POWER OT THIRD AND SHORT STOP AND YOU BRING IN TOW TOP NOTCH RELIEVERS ON THE MARKET SPEND THE MONEY AND LETS WIN THE WORLD SERIES IN 2009
My theory is that the Twins might be able to find bullpen help in the minors, but that unless they let Luke Hughe play next year, they won’t find any power from the minors next year. Speed and D are nice, but the Twins are unlikely to exceed decades of trends and hit so well with RISP next year. Teams win with OBP and Slugging on O, and keeping runners off base with pitching (and the ball in the park). They just don’t have any potential power ready to come up this year (and, frankly, I’m not sure the year after either). Therefore, if they are going to improve the team, they need to get someone that can hit doubles and HRs.
I’d love for Young to be that guy, but since he hit the second most ground balls int he majors (if I remember this correctly, he hit the 2nd most ground balls as a percent of balls he put in play), it seems unlikely he’ll start hitting HRS and doubles.
My preference is to get a real SS/2B/3B/OF that can hit for some power through FA or trade, and try to fix the bullpen from within. It may not work, but it is more likely to work than getting relief pitchers from outside, and trying to get power from within this light hitting organization.
btw, I’m not convinced that Luke Hughes is the answer to any question, but he’s the most likely to come from within the organization and hit for power (which says a lot about the organization’s power level right now).
Hardy would be an ideal fit for the twins. I have been watching him play the last few years for the brewers and he has some natural talent. He also seems to have a passion for the game that the twins are so high on. Beltre is overpaid and Atkins plays in high altitudes so there numbers mean nothing to me. Trading for hardy brings in 30 homers form the right side for the next 5 to 10 years. Pair him wiht our lefty studs and we got a world series contender. Trade em cuddyer, blackburn, and a prospect for hardy. We can fill in humber or mulvey or bonser in blackburns spot. Plus than maybe the santana trade would look even better…. or worse
I’m terribly confused, why do we need to change half of our lineup and pitching staff? I seem to think the ‘08 Twins were 3rd in the AL in Runs scored, this with Mike Lamb at 3B for half the season. Why do we have to make free agent moves to bolster our roster? I’m pretty sure that we have the best young players in baseball.
The Phillies and the Rays were in the World Series because they had solid pitching, defense, and a diverse offense to score runs (granted the Rays didn’t do much scoring in the WS but they did in the ALDS and ALCS, and the Phillies got there mostly on pitching). So what do the Twins have good pitching , solid defense, and a semi-diverse offense (lacking in right-handed power hitting).
I don’t think the Twins need much of anything in the offseason, why do we need to bring 5 new starting players who have not played together and have not built a continuity with the rest of the team? It just doesn’t make any sense. The Phillies didn’t do that, their entire playoff starting lineup, except for Feliz, Blanton, and Lidge was on the roster the previous year. The only one that was a key component to their added success was Brad Lidge. Same for the Rays, granted Longoria was new, but the Rays knew they were going to have him sooner or later, their key additions were Bartlett and Garza; Floyd, Percival, Trevor Miller, Chad Bradford (midway thru the season) were just role players. Bartlett gave them what they needed at SS and Garza completed their rotation. The Rays success was do to attitude and trust that no one player on the team needed to carry them, the trust was that everyone on the team could contribute at anytime, and they did.
The Twins have the same opportunity, find the one key addition to put them over the top, and trust in the entire team to produce when needed (which they did from mid-June to one game before the playoffs). In my opinion that one missing piece (not in the organization) is right-handed power hitter (and by power hitter all I mean is 20 HRs) who can play the left side of the infield and not make us worse defensively. Best Options: Beltre or Hardy.
Since Koskie left the Twins are a broken record old, cheap experiments at 3rd. Either get someone you can trust to play more than half a season, or give it to someone younger within the organization. The Twins don’t have that available within the organization some they must look outward.
As far as bullpen goes the Twins have so many young talented pitchers that one of them is bound to be a capable mid-to-late inning reliever, I’m not sure who it is, but I’m confident someone can do it, just please give them a chance, I don’t care if they have to covert a starter, just try, and if they don’t pan out send them back to the minors or cut them don’t try to give them opportunities when they keep failing (Rincon, or starters Ortiz, Ponson, Hernandez).
It won’t take much to put the Twins over the top in 2009, and favorites to win it all in 2010, but they have to keep this team together, and they don’t have to do much to do that, but add one key component and trust in themselves.
We have to get rid of Boof,Crain, and matt they are all worthless to us now. I dont think they will end up doin again when the new season starts. As for the power hitting! I think we should get Adrian Beltre. He has power and he would prolly feel more comfortable here than seattle cuz we have Joe and Justin. For his defense its pretty good he won a gold glove this year I think. First we need to get rid of crain boof and them and trade them for some shortstop. For bullpen help I like Juan Cruz, Jeremy Affeldt, and Brian Fuentes. More than likely we have a better chance getting Beltre than JJ Hardy.
The asking price for Hardy is going to be too much. Crede, Blake, Beltre, or Atkins at 3rd, Casilla at Short, Tolbert at 2nd, and there is enough AAA talent to replenish the Bullpen. The only way Hardy works is if CC Sab signs with MIL and they need a salary dump.
this is from an article on sportsillustrated.com from halloween…
1. Minnesota trades Francisco Liriano to Texas for Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Elvis Andrus, Hank Blalock and Omar Poveda
i love this idea and would jump on it in a heartbeat. capitalize on liriano while his value is arguably at its peak. for all we know he will need another tommy john surgery some day. in return we get a solid bat at 3B for today, a great SS prospect in Andrus AND saltalamacchia. we have depth in the infield and outfield after a deal like this and can make a subsequent move to acquire a guy like street without even having to give up anything of major consequence. i hope we dont give up on delmon young, there is no reason to after one year. and in the 2nd half he was getting better with the bat. we teach defense, so that shouldnt be as much an issue now that we have an entire offseason to work on that with him without any pressure at all placed on delmon.
We don’t need Crede. He might be cheap but he hasnt been healthy. I think we should just get Beltre for 3rd base.
Twins lineup
Mauer
Beltre
Dunn
Roberts
Rameriez
Span
Young
Gomez
Hardy
J/k
I dont think the Twins will do much this offseason except possible getting Hardy, and maybe a bullpen man
Everyone wants to get rid of every reliever basically and go fish. Anyone ever think we need to have our starters go more than six innings? I feel after watching the twins for over 40 years that they need to get Roberts from Baltimore, keep Alexi at SS, and platoon at 3rd. They do need two relievers, not so much for change, but injuries and over use, which Guerrier and his fellow relievers had this year. Boof has to go though. He will give up a run at least every time he is in there. Young needs more plate discipline, and I would not get rid of Cuddy. I like the idea of trading our CF and moving span to CF. He might bring you the Hardy or Uggala you want.
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