Gardy’s outfield guys: Denard, Gomez and …
Posted on December 4th, 2008 – 7:13 AMBy Howard
Ron Gardenhire was in Fargo on Wednesday afternoon, speaking at a farm trade show, and the subject of the outfield came up.
According to the Fargo Forum, Gardy said he wants a starting outfield in 2009 of Denard Span, Carlos Gomez and …
… Michael Cuddyer.
Been nice knowing you, Delmon.
Gardenhire said about his outfielders-of-choice: “Those three guys need to play every day. Delmon is in the mix. He’s a hell of a player, a hell of a talent. But to me, those three guys should be your outfield and then you go from there.”
This is the strongest indication yet that Young is available to a team that can offer up something reasonable in return. Gardy told the Fargo group that teams have inquired about Young.
Anyway, what’s just as interesting about Gardy’s words is the faith he has in Cuddyer to come back in 2009 and be one of the productive right-handed bats that the Twins were missing last season.
It also means the Twins are “officially” acknowledging that they traded a starting shortstop (Jason Bartlett) and a starting pitcher (Matt Garza) for two role players — and without even being able to dump Juan Rincon in the process.
So let’s see… If Casey Blake signs on Monday and the season started next Thursday, the lineup would be: Span, lf; Casilla, 2b; Mauer, c; Morneau, 1b; Blake, 3b; Kubel, dh; Cuddyer, rf; Harris, ss; Gomez, cf. We can still hold out hope for an upgrade at shortstop, perhaps from a package that includes the aforementioned deposed outfielder.
Sometimes, Delmon, baseball is a lot like fashion. As the fashion diva Heidi Klum would say, if she took John Gordon’s job: “One year you’re in — the next you’re out.”
352 Responses to "Gardy’s outfield guys: Denard, Gomez and …"
Dumb. I would rather bank on Delmon Young w/ a .292 career avg w/ power to all fields at 23 years, than Cuddyer, who is a .268 career hitter past his prime with only one proven season (2006). Yeah, Cuddy is better defensively, but defense is not where the Twins have fallen short! Plus, with Gomez and Span’s awesome range covering the OF, I just don’t take DY’s less than stellar defensive into account so much. Yes, we can get more for a Delmon Young trade than a Cuddyer. I would rather stick with Delmon Young, I’m too afraid this will be worse than the Ortiz trade. I like Cuddy, but he would be my pick to unload.
This is very interesting. I would bet Delmon has way more value than Cuddyer anyway on the trade market. Age is obviously the reason, and Cuddyer’s best year wasn’t even much better statistically than Young’s past two years - before he turned 23.
That said, I think most Twins fans would be pleased with an upgrade at shortstop at the expense of Delmon.
Keep all 4 of them until the trade deadline if need be, then dump Cuddyer once his value improves.
Young plays defense scared. Scared of the ball, scared of the foul line, scared of the fence. Like one co-worker said “he runs like he has a pickle up his a z z and is trying not to drop it”. His defense made the difference between winning the division and tieing. Defense DOES make a difference.
I trust Gardy, but Delmon’s upside potential seems great to me. Don’t forget about the sophomore jinx. When the book is complete on Denard, will some holes appear. Carlos is in the same questionable period. Keeping Delmon for another year would be the way to go. If you sign Blake, you’ve lost nothing from last year. Patience with a successful YOUNG team. Also Blake can play 1st, which could really help Justin’s late season woes.
HAVE FUN !!! GO TWINS !!!
That’s pretty stupid! Not that Gardy wants that set-up, but that he would come out and announce it like that. He just tied Smith’s hands in trying to get reasonable value for Delmon.
This just goes to show how much of a moron Gardy can be. Don’t get me wrong, I love him but 2 things he does that drive me up a wall - he has serious issues managing the pen and he plays favorites despite what his team needs (which are wins).
So he’ll shove Cuddy back into his nice home at RF, move the Speedy Span over to left and have Gomez roam center. Why the heck don’t you just swap Span with Young in the first place? All you people rag on Young’s Defense and guess what - he’s never played in LF as a major leaguer! In fact, RF is where he played all the year before in Tampa. And guess what? He had the SAME ZR (.874) and made roughly the same F% there.
Yah, I want a guy who hits maybe .260-.270, hits about 15 HR’s and drives in 70-80 (if we’re lucky) instead of a much younger, CHEAPER guy with LOADS of POTENTIAL that has a higher batting average and only a few less HR’s and RBI’s
I won’t even get into the absurdity that is Punto vs Harris at SS….
Agree with lenny. Smith is in a real bind now with talking to other GM’s.
What is wrong with Gardy? I’m thinking that Delmon has way more upside than Cuddeyer even if he can’t do magic tricks. Cuddeyer’s greatest asset is his right arm but other than that he isn’t a great hitter or fielder and has a great tendency to get injured. Keep Delmon and send Cuddy down the road and I can promise you that Young will be a very good hitter and an improved fielder in the years to come. Go Twins!!
Gardy needs to keep his mouth shut.
Cuddyer is paid way too much and he is so over rated as a player. What a huge mistake to trade Young.
I’d trade Cuddyer in a heartbeat over DY. People tend to forget that DY was our third most productive hitter last year. And he has proven that he can stay healthy. We can’t dump him after one year.
I agree Lenny. Must’ve been a freudian slip.
By the way, I remember Lenny Green quite well. He was one of my favurites. I think he was the 2nd original twin centerfielder. I think Bill Tuttle was 1st.
HAVE FUN !!! GO TWINS !!!
You people are really funny, why arent all you experts running the twims?
Because you are a bunch of Dumb A—-
Gardenhire is an idiot.
Edit to my post - in 2007, Young had a HIGHER ZR, Range Factor and only 3 less assists than ‘cannon arm Cuddyer’
I have to agree with EVERYBODY. Thinking that Cuddy is a better long-term answer than Young is ridiculous. Cuddy had one good year and hasn’t proven anything (except good defense) since then. Cuddy’s not getting any younger either. If we get rid of DY, we’ll be looking for ANOTHER outfielder when Cuddy ends of batting .217 and gets hurt AGAIN!! If there’s a personality issue (which there always is with Gardy), MANAGE IT! YOU’RE A FRIGGIN’ MANAGER!!! You don’t just dump talent like DY because his FIRST year wasn’t a trip to the Series!
Come on Twins don’t be stupid. Young is young, strong, fast and can help our outfield grow into the best outfield in the Majors. Don’t make the mistake you made with Tampa even worse.
I can see where Gardy’s coming from, defensively that is the superior outfield trio.
Offensively however, Young has too much value.
This may spell “the end” for Young. But it could also mean bad things for Kubel. After all, don’t some think Young could also DH?
Delmon Young is an absolutely pathetic outfielder. Anyone who can’t see that is a blind fool. Ya I am talking to most of you in here. Now go back to your Delmon Young posters above your bed and have “relations” with yourself thinking about your HERO.
I can’t believe that Gardy would just show the teams cards like that for no reason. This makes me think that they aren’t trying to trade Young (since Gardy’s mouth just dropped the price), but trying to light a fire under him. I like the idea of keeping all 5 outfielders (Delmon, Gomez, Span, Cuddyer, Kubel) for 4 spots (LF,CF,RF,DH). A little healthy competition makes guys work for their spot a little harder.
I’d trade Span
DUDE - who are the twims?
Typical Gardy…OPEN MOUTH, INSERT FOOT! Dumb, dumber, dumbest!!!
Good points - but the reality is that Delmon is better trade bait, being younger and cheaper with more upside than Cuddy. Gardy’s being realistic, because he’s going to have Cuddyer in 2009.
Trade Span? Never, he was damn near the MVP of the team the last half of the season.
Young has come along and done quite well too,though I hear he is not a good club house guy.
But because cheap carl has invested a small sum in Cuddy, it looks like hes not the odd man out.
I like Harris at short, just put hin there and leave him alone. I’ not convince Cuddy can hit anymore. He’s only had one good year.
Havent seen this many pro-Delmon posts ever. Perhaps Gardy isnt so special than we all think despite his success. If they trade him based on personality, Ive lost all respect for Gardy. The Twins front office has become a good ol boy network and if you are not in the circle, your not in. If you cant manage a different personality, you shouldnt be a MLB manager.
Can’t fault Gardy for liking Cuddy, but he has only had 1 good year. He’s more of a clubhouse leader than Mauer or Morneau. But he’s injured way too much and it’s doubtful he will ever approach his stats from his one good year. Young has way more potential than the injury prone Cuddy. He hit .290 last year and is going to get better while Cuddy has reached his ceiling.
Though I do not think he should have said something like this publically, I do agree with Gardy. With Span, Gomez and Cuddy in the outfield, and Kubel and Young filling in and splitting the DH duties, there will be lots of ABs for all concerned.
I have another question, how many rbi did Joe Mauer have last year. The answer is not enough. Don’t get me wrong, I am a huge Mauer fan but don’t think we can continue to have him bat 3rd. I would propose the following lineup:
Span LF Left
Mauer C Left
Blake 3B Right
Morneau 1B Left
Cuddy RF Right
Kubel/Young DH Left/Right
Hardy SS Right
Casilla 2B Switch
Gomez CF Right
YOu may notice that the Left and Right handed hitters are alternated in most cases making it tough on opposing managers to go to the pen late in games. Of course, the Blake Cuddy, Hardy spots could be altered based on who is swinging well and who is not. I got to believe that whoever is batting between the M&M boys is going to get pitches to hit and drive.
This all is contingent too on signeing Blake and trading for Hardy. I’m just doing some realistic dreaming out load.
This is one of the most idiotic things Gardy has ever done and that’s saying something.
1. You don’t show your cards to other teams.
2. Young is more valuable than both Cuddyer and Gomez.
3. Young is much cheaper than Cuddyer. I think trading Cuddyer for anything is addition by subtraction just to clear up some more money.
4. Young is already moody and stubborn, how does making these comments help building a relationship in the future?
5. Young is a better RF than Cuddyer and he isn’t coming off multiple injuries.
This is a ridiculous thing for Gardy to do for all the reasons mentioned above - plus he’s wrong about DY. Gardy is playing favorites again, just like with Punto. This is what I like least about Gardy - his doghouse is far too easy to get in to and far too difficult to get out of. Just because Cuddy says the right things doesn’t make him a more valuable player - his numbers don’t justify his salary or a starting position on this team.
I almost cried when I read that. Delmon is gona get traded and be a dominate bat within two years. Then we will hear about how we wasnt a good teamate and blah blah blah. Such a horrible horrible idea……
Hmm. Perhaps Gardy was trying to increase Cuddyer’s value in order to trade him. I wouldn’t take everything you hear at face value.
Defense is always number one with good baseball teams. I would be scared to death to be in the outfield with Young, he has no control of his body, does not know how to backup another fielder, you do not teach how to be a fielder, that is a natural instinct in a human and if you don’t have it you never will.
Has anyone thought that maybe Gardy wants to trade Cuddy and made the comment to increase his value? Other GM’s will think they are getting our starting RF instead of a just role player or DH.
Bob - if that’s the plan, you don’t do it by alienating the guy you’re trying to keep.
I’m not sure if this strengthens or weakens my argument. This is the same manager that didn’t like Garza.
The Twins need some POWER and Young has that. He’s also hard-headed…Cuddy is a “clubhouse” guy that Gardy loves…guess who Gardy’s going to keep.
You clowns don’t get it. Cuddy is the real bait here since he is slotted as a starter. Get your heads out of your butts.
Tax, I’m sure Gardy told Young how the trading game is played so no one will be offended…
Why does Gardy like Cuddy so much. My guess is that Cuddy has some kind of dirt on Gardy. I remember when the Twins played the A’s in the 2002 playoffs and Dustin Mohr and Bobby Kelty played right field all year and then come playoff time, Cuddy gets brought up and he gets the start in the playoffs?? Yeah he hit .385 for the series, but to put a guy in with only 40+ MLB games after Mohr and Kelty helped you get to the playoffs? Just seemed strange to me.
Chad, put down the crackpipe…
I think you need to keep all 4. What if Cuddy breaks down again? The sophmore slumps hits span? Gomez goes through another funk?
We know Cuddy is who he is…he’s been around long enough to know roughly what you’re going to get…which is ok, but not great. Young still may end up being a great hitter. Defensively they probably aren’t too different. Cuddy is a statue out there in RF and luckily for him there is not much ground to cover in RF in the Dome. LF is much more spacious and Young wasn’t great…but I’m sure Cuddy would have looked foolish in LF. I like Cuddy swapping DH duties with Kubel and swap Span and DY since Span can cover more ground. Let’s just hope Span didn’t hit his high water mark last year, like Punto did a few years ago.
Plain and simple….Young platoons with Kubel as DH.
jama is so correct when saying Gardy just f’d up by saying this.
Ragweed, you’re wrong. Gardy is playing the game well…
Keep Delmon. Dump Cuddy and Gardy. And John Gordon.
Can Brett Farve play baseball?
Kubels value is decent, no? Trade him and move Delmon to DH.
You know who else wasn’t a good clubhouse guy the first 2 years of his Twins career. Joe Mauer. Trading Delmon for anything less than an absolute stud major league ready shortstop prospect would end up being a kick yourself in the butt 3 years later when he hits .325 with 30+ HR for another team. Also, is everybody forgetting about Delmon’s insane cannon? I’d take everything of 23 yr old Delmon over anything of over the hill Cuddyer. I agree with the 5 players for 4 spots competition. Don’t get rid of talent just because you have too much of it.
Young and Gomez struggled with certain aspects of the game and are both relatively the same age.
So why is Gardy in favor of Gomez and not with Young? Because Gomez genuinely cares and takes direction from guys like Vavra to make himself a better player. Young acts like he doesn’t give a rat’s behind and refuses to take direction. As history has shown, players like that on the Twins roster aren’t Twins for long no matter how high their ceiling is.
Joe….what game is Gardy playing? I must be really dumb because I fail to see any benefit of Gardy making that statement. BS and Gardy need to talk more.
Maybe they plan on keeping him and this is motivation for Young?
I have no problem with what Gardy said, and I do not think it means the Twins are trading DY. More than likely it’s a call-out to DY to understand his role on this team, any team, is not a given. DY and DH with Kubel and fill in as needed, unless somebody gives the Twins a proportionate value in trade. DY must surely be getting a message at some point….problem child in minors, Tampa lets him go after 1 year despite all of this alledged “upside” to his talent, and now the Twins can take him or leave him. DY would do well to realize it’s not everybody else who is crazy. He needs to adjust, and commit, to improving himself, or he will not have a MLB career worth talking about.
Gardy is in love with Cuddy and Jesse Crain.
Delmon doesn’t fit the twins style– too boring– no emotion! he belongs with his brother and the poopy nationals!
Delmon has not hit more than 13 HRs since 2005, in AA. His power and OBP and SLG percentages have all dropped the more he’s moved into playing against professional players. Many people are now beginning to think that his natural talent carried him against HS pitchers and low A talent, but that he may never hit against big league talent. He has had over 1000 ABs inthe majors now, he may be young, but he has plenty of experience. He does not walk, he hits the ball on the ground, and now his manager has publicly stated that he doesn’t think he’s one of his three best OFers.
I’ve been ripped here for not thinking Young is good, that we should trust the baseball peeople. Well, now one of the baseball people has spoken….
Those of you that think Young is going to hit 30 HR’s are insane. I like Young and think he is already better than Cuddy but he is never going to hit 30 HR’s. Lower your expectations or else you are going to be disappointed year after year. I still wouldn’t trade him unless you are getting real value back.
Look at all the moron with their panties in a bunch. Who knew a statement at a tractor show would get all the idiot twins fans who never took a swing at a baseball in their life to piss their pants! I LAUGH at you morons.
rayreiner…..that’s what DY did and said last winter…..fresh start in Minny, work hard, and have a productive summer. He had all (most) of us fooled. What’s DY going to do now?…..the drama just took one big step forward.
This is incredibly stupid. If the guy is 22 or 23 years old and has two full seasons of hitting around .300…where was cuddyer at 22 and 23…if you trade delmon he will be next superstar for someone else.
Keep everyone. You only missed the playoffs by one game. You scored the 3rd most runs in the league. The young starters were great, especially for their lack of experience.
Add through free agency, not trades. Next year at this time you’ll probably be be glad.
Plus, its so unheard of to keep a team intact these days, that alone could add a couple wins.
HAVE FUN !!! GO TWINS !!!
Relax people. This just means Delmon is our DH and fourth outfielder. It could also just be some tough love from Gardy to light a fire under the kid’s butt. Force him to prove himself.
I’d much rather get rid of Cuddyer. He’s hurt all the time/older and his average is way worse than Young’s.
I think the Twins would feel pretty crummy if they give up on Young after one season, and then he blows up with another team David Ortiz style.
If the Twins trade Young, Gardy will be whining by the All Star break about not having more productive RH hitting and Kubel and/or Pridie will be playing the OF every day due to either injury or lack of production by one of his “chosen 3″ OFs.
If I’m wrong and all 3 are healthy and productive in the first half of the season, there will almost certainly be a team anxious to pick up Young at mid season and that’s when the Twins will have leverage to get a good deal.
If you can get quality in a trade, fine… but I don’t see that being likely this off-season.
Everyone is calling Gardy dumb. But, I think this is his way of putting pressure on Smith to make the moves Gardy wants. I’d imagine he’s tried every route he can internally, now he tries to force their hand.
citizenkane-try to have a point when you make a comment, and this board is for debate. There are a number of people on here who have played college, independent league or minor league ball. And most of them are making better arguments than you.
The idiot is you.
Gardenhire has too much of a good-ol-boys mentality. If he decides he doesn’t like you (remember Span earlier this year?), there’s practically nothing you can do to get out of that hole. Span would NOT be on that list except he played like SUPERMAN when there was no other option for Gardy. As another posted noted, Young has the career stats, age (23), power to all fields - but for some reason Gardy doesn’t like the man. Bottom-line, Gardy makes decisions based on how much he likes you (can you say NICKY PUNTO?), not by how much talent you bring to the table. Gardy is a good manager of the game, NOT PERSONAL.
Hopefuly some of you are on the right track. What is wrong with both Cuddy and Delmon on the same roster. One of the big problems with this team has been no bench. Delmon can play both right and left field and DH against lefties - what’s the other DH option - Punto?
How come nobody is talking about the real 4th outfielder/trade-bait of the group–Gomez. I know he’s cute, has a neat nickname and sells some shirts but this guy is MANY years away from being a major league hitter and 1-2 years from being a good center fielder (see 15-25 throws last year simply towards the infield to no one in particular). I agree he runs more gracefully than Delmon (aka pickle in his &*^) Young. But, that’s all he does well. (And, he doesn’t even know how to steal a base–should he ever reach safely–in spite of that speed.) Wake up fans and organization–we can’t train this guy on the job during a pennant race.
I truly wonder why Gardy said this- and if he really intended anyone to pay attention. It seems like a bad idea to reveal this right before the winter meetings. I’m intrigued by those who suggest that Gardy was sneakily trying to inflate Cuddyer’s value by naming him as a starter- but I can’t imagine any rival team scouts were hanging around a farm trade show in Fargo.
Maybe Delmon’s been moved to shortstop. Problem solved!
i don’t think lighting a fire under him would be done at a farm show in fargo, it should be done standing in front of his desk in his office with the door closed.
gardy also didn’t get along with garza and bartlett. so smith has to get players that gardy likes and gets along with? may as well resign punto and bring tobi up to play 3b.
this can’t really help smiths position if they do want to trade him. seems to be very stupid thing to say, much better to say who ever plays the best in the spring will play! they trade young, gomez or span take a step back, cuddy gets hurt we’re in a real hurt again. last 2 yrs. young 314 gms played cuddy 215.
well gardy, dont let young get too far, your gonna need him when span goes lew ford on the bit.
yet again we find more reasons why the Twins will remain a farm team for bigger markets. They need to give up on Cuddyer, regardless of how cozy he makes the locker room. Unless we can get real value for Delmon, why trade? Should we help out yet another team? Gardy needs to vacay in the offseason, and stick to the NRA rallies or whatever he does.
twinsfan1- you took the comments personally, so if you feel like a moron that’s on you not me
Dumb. A dumb, stupid thing to say. Bill Smith needs to take Gardy to the woodshed on this one. Not only was just saying something like that foolish, it also shows Gardy’s thinking is all wrong. In a year or two Cuddyer will be playing in Japan. Now I almost hope we trade Delmon. He deserves better than this manager.
Well, I guess it’s time to let Delmon go bash 30+ home runs somewhere else. Besides, we’re not suited for that - we’d rather put fundamentally stunted players like Gomez at the plate to swing at everything. Get over the defensive argument - defense isn’t the problem!! It hasn’t been for the past 6 years, either!
Couldn’t agree more… What photos does Cuddyer have of Gardy. This is about who you like better it is about who is a better baseball player. Delmon has already been a better player than Cuddyer and hasn’t even hit his ceiling yet. I thought Gardenhire was smarter than this..
Agree w/ Walter. There is no good reason for Gardy to say something like this…none.
“Increase Cuddyer’s trade value” by naming him the starter? Please. Don’t be naive. You really think other GMs assess trade value by what someone SAYS? They look at stats, they ask their scouts, they look at tape.
Stupid comment, no matter what he really thinks. And for that matter if he thinks Cuddyer will be the better player going forward I strongly disagree. There is almost no chance, IMO, that Cuddyer’s career from 2009 on will be better than DY’s.
LOL Delmon Young hit 30 home runs????? WOW, this must be a daily meeting of the daydreamers club. Delmon Young said himself he needed 200 at bats to even get in a groove to start a season. All he has shown is he can hit a single up the middle one in four at bats. You people are morons who call into Sid on Sundays and sound like complete jackasses.
I love Gardy, but he blew it here. He does play favorites, and Cuddy is one of them. Gardy can start him if he he wants to, but they had better keep DY around because he will be starting as soon as Cuddyer gets injured. Some time during spring training I would guess.
citizenkane:
Did you get lost on your way to the Vikings blog?
Citizenkane: Shut your pie-hole.
AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!
Why can’t the Twins ever get past the “good guy in the clubhouse” thing? For the sake of argument, let’s just say that Delmon is a complete a-hole, and that Cuddyer is the best guy on the planet. But let’s say they do approximately the same level of work (which they do), and the a-hole is paid much less (which Young is). AND, everyone agrees that the a-hole is a “special talent” with “big upside” (which is why they traded for him). If your company needs to watch its budget, don’t you keep the a-hole?
I work with a lot of good people and a few a-holes. Do you know why we keep the a-holes around? Because in spite of being a-holes, they do a good job. Do you work with a-holes? I’m guessing so. Why can’t baseball players work with an a-hole every now and then? What’s the problem?
scott:
Nice Charlie Brown imitation.
In 2007:
Cuddyer(age-28) .276 16-81
Young (age-22) .288 13-93
That is the last year that Cuddyer stats will ever compare to Delmon’s stats.
Delmon will be the better baseball player from 2007 until their retirements. (2011 for Cuddyer, 2021 for Delmon)
Gardy is a moron. We all know he plays his favorites but coming out with this statement is idiotic even for him. Talent, shmalant. All Gardy cares about is, “Do I like the guy?”
If DY goes, he may become the next David Ortiz, Matt Garza, JC, egg on the face of Gardy who gets management to get rid of the guys he doesn’t like.
Walter Johnson-
Well said. I like Gardy, but in professional sports, you don’t say things like that. You keep your mouth shut until something has been firmly decided. What if they have to keep Delmon now, and he won’t play hard for Gardy because he threw him under the bus?
This whole situation is very troubling. If we keep Delmon and get rid of Cuddy we have a huge defensive hole in the outfield. If we keep Cuddy and get rid of Delmon, we lose a lot offensively and might have another David Ortiz situation on our hands. If we move Delmon to DH, we lose 20-25 HR’s from Kubel, who had a pretty under-appreciated year, and who was one of the top prospects in all of baseball just a few years ago. I think he deserves a shot to build on his year as well. Another option is moving Span to CF, trading Gomez or keeping him in AAA, and putting Delmon in RF and Cuddy in LF. There isn’t a rock solid option in the whole group, and I know some people have strong opinions, but any way you go, it might blow up in our face.
Young has higher upside, but imo Cuddyer is the better player right now. He’s a tougher out, and when healthy, he has more power. Defensively, I think they’re on par.
But I agree with most people here: Why show your cards when you don’t have to? Perhaps they already have a decent deal lined up for him and are just waiting until the winter meetings to cross the t’s and dot the i’s.
Agreed with various commenters above - very stupid to give up on Young this soon. I saw Terry Ryan give a talk a few times and he always said that trading David Ortiz was the biggest mistake of his career. Well, I think Bill Smith is about to be making the biggest mistake of his…. at least TR had a nice track record in front of him before he made his biggest blunder. That said, if Gardy doesn’t want to play him, it probably makes more sense to just swap him for somebody they will play everyday.
mariners say putz is available so trade young plus harris or buscher and some pitching prospects to them for beltre and putz.
blake wants 3 yrs is a deal breaker imo.
Is this a strib blog or the Delmon Young fan club? He isn’t going anywhere. Every team in the league knows he is a cancer, that is old news. Only Bill Smith was dumb enough to take him on.
All of you wanna be experts. DY is the one that said he didn’t need to be in the minors because he knew how play the game. Isn’t catching a fly ball or fielding a ground ball part of that? I did not like the trade in the first place!! But Garza is gone because he was hard to coach and not exceptionally good in the clubhouse. DY is a player in the same mold. You cannot make a team of rebellious players. Example T-Wolves. Gardys outfield is the right one, BUT hit Cuddy 4th between the two lefties. He’ll get better pitches to hit and Justin will still be a .300+35-40hrs hitter.
citizenkane,
Could you please give me your home address?
I have a business proposition for you.
I an really just an honest business man.
Too early to dump Young unless offered significant upgrade at short. He may be a young ManRam who needs a mental adjustment.
Cuddy will be hurt by May 1; better keep Young.
TOMMY BOY, Walter Johnson, Tony Soprano is that the best you got? Can’t refute my arguments so you write lame comments. Yah I figured you 2 were the ones with the Delmon Young posters above your bed and morons who call into Sid’s show asking “why wasn’t my boytoy delmon in leftfield last night”. Please continue with the self gratification to your posters mental-midgets.
This would be dumb if we traded a former number 1 pick and top prospect in baseball who shows tremendous promise to replace him with a player (Span) who has only had one great season at any level in the minors or majors. I love Span but think that any move to remove Young from the mix would be shortsighted.
It’s good to read the fans actually taking Tardy to task for his playing favorites. Young is a better, and much cheaper option than Cruddy.
Why not try and trade Cruddy somewhere (which will be tough thanks to Trader Billy signing him for big dollars), and let Young try and have a better year or two, and hopefully increase his value. His value is low right now, very low. Even if we cannot deal Cruddy, you play him 2 out of 4 games (dh against rightys) and move Span around to accommodate. Span can play anywhere. I would prefer Young in right field, his natural position.
i meant Cruddy dhing against lefties
kinda beat the subject to death over in Joe’s blog yesterday ( http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/christensen/2008/12/03/wednesday-morning-update-blake-bartlett-and-young/#comment-67100 ) but I think that the main point should be not the content of Gardy’ words (which do not make much sense), but the fact that he is willing to talk about who his starters are next April in December in a livestock show.
Bypassing the irony of the event and the audience, this is a. classless behavior and b. behavior detrimental to the team, by a manager who just got a 2-year extension.
If Smith has any balls he should fine Gardy on the spot.
It’s obvious that Gardy is saying one thing here and going to do another… Everyone thinks he is being mr. honesty here, but this manager is saying this as a publicity stunt to keep other teams on their toes… Genius
Great scoop Howard!
The Twins have been consistant for decades. They have a “Twins way” to do business. It involves preparation, execution, and how as a representitive of the organization you carry yourself in the community. Gardy’s not stupid. I believe this was said with a purpose. This is a wake up call to Delmon. Pick up an oar and start rowing or go help someone else. This is the proverbial fork in the road for Delmon. If he makes the right turn may be a Jermaine Dye type of player. The wrong turn could mean the beginning of the end of his carreer.
Let me get this straight:
Gardy (who i like overall) said this when he:
1) Left Gomez at the leadoff for most of the year
2) Left DY in LF instead of moving him back to RF all year
3) Kept Livan in and Franchise down in AAA
4) need i go into Lamb/Monroe/etc fiasco?
What gives? this strikes me as so dumb!!!!
What’s so great about Cuddy??
Let me start this thread - WHAT EXACTLY CAN BE SAID ABOUT THE CHARACTER OF SOMEONE WHO REFUSES …. REFUSES TO PLAY A POSITION INSTEAD OF SAYING “I’LL PLAY WHEREVER THEY NEED ME THE MOST” (CUDDYER SAYING HE REFUSES TO PLAY 3B). ISN’T THAT THE ESSENCE OF 1. BAD ATTITUDE AND 2. ME FIRST AND TEAM SECOND ATTITUDE???
Do I smell a David Ortiz situation part 2? If they trade Young now he will kill us later and Delmon will run his mouth about how the Twins ruined his swing.
I like Cuddy alot but he has already hit his ceiling as a player, Delmon has not.
I re-read Gardy’s original words, and I think everyone’s getting a little too excited about the whole thing. Gardy didn’t come out and say anything bad about Delmon Young at all. He said Young should play every day [somewhere- maybe on another team, granted], and Span, Gomez, and Cuddy should be in the outfield. I take that to a different logical conclusion: DH. Really just proves what lots of people have been saying all along- Delmon’s defense needs some work. Jason Kubel might be nervous right about now.
Gardy is a complete dumb ass
[…] A Fan’s View – […]
One of Young’s biggest assets is his arm. I don’t see how it makes any sense to have him DH. I can see Cuddyer DH’ing before I can see Young there.
Where’s ‘FIRE GARDY AND VAVRA!!!!!!!’ where you need him?
Comparing Young to David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez is laughable and ridiculous. You can’t even compare him to Jacque Jones. This is some funny sh@t
Swannie:
I agree. If we are going to have this conversation of which OF to trade, it is only logical to include Kubel in this discussion. Trading Kubel and moving DY to DH makes sense.
If you kiss Gardy’s ass enough, you get to play everyday and get mentioned in post-game comments for doing nothing, i.e. Nicky Punto. Cuddyer is very average. Don’t pull another Ortiz, just tell Young to shut up and hit. Seems Morneau had some work ethic issues up until he turned 25.
Why wouldn’t Gardy open up the competition and make Young earn the position? I’ll tell you why, cuz Gardy’s to loyal to the “clubhouse” guy Cuddy. Remember last year when Gardy said Cuddy could play center? I’m not baseball guru, but know that he is not a center fielder! HE IS NOT EVEN AN EVERY DAY PLAYER in my opinion! Be a role player and come in when someone is in a slump. GIVE DELMON A CHANCE…NOT TO MENTION KUBEL!!!!!!!
Paul,
Thanks, but the credit should go to Mike McFeely of the Forum in Fargo. This was his story. I just linked to it and decided to toss a match.
One other things, folks. To say that Gardy is “tipping his hand” seems a bit naive. Teams know each others’ business, especially when pursuing a trade. It’s like knowing the Brewers have a shortstop prospect (Alcides Escobar) whom they think is ready to take Hardy’s place. Does that kill Hardy’s value?
And if Gardy doesn’t talk, what do WE talk about?
“You cannot make a team of rebellious players.”
Can you say, WS champions, Boston Red Sox, Chicago White Sox?
I’d go Young for Hardy, straight up, but that doesn’t make any sense for Milwaukee. Argh……. I complained when TR never did anything in the offseason, but I think I prefer it to a developing trigger finger in Bill Smith.
Maybe if Delmon focuses solely on hitting (and let’s face it, that’s why the Twins traded for him- not for his defensive prowess), he can raise that BA and power potential without worrying about improving in the field. The Twins have plenty of outfielders, both in the Majors and coming up. Let Delmon DH and have Kubel available as the back-up LF and RF guy.
Let’s not forget that Delmon is making 400 grand for like the next 4 years. We don’t have to get nervous and trade him right now. Let’s see if his attitude is still crap and let him try and develop. If he does, well then we have a good problem. If he doesn’t, we can trade him for a few jock straps later on. Bottom line though is he should play more than Cruddy. Nice 8 million a year on that signing Billy!
Check this out on Casey Blake and the Twins missing the boat on another cheap, reliable reliever (which s/b priority #1)
The Delmon apologists on this site who say that Delmon will be a star in six months, a year, or five years, remind me of the idiots who have been saying
for the past five years that staying in Iraq for just six more months will do the trick. The result in both cases is pretty obvious. Go Twins!
Cuddyer has a bad attitude and is selfish. He wont play 3B. Flat out refuses. Prima Donna …
All the people criticizing Gardy for speaking up need to realize, this is the offseason in pro baseball. I interpret his comments as meaning that Gardy wants to keep DY and hopes to trade Cuddyer. The real question is, is Bill Smith on the same page? Are they working together, or is Gardy trying to force BS’s (heh) hand as far as keeping Delmon?
Kity Kaat,
you sound like the dumbarses who said the surge wouldnt work and that Gen. Petreaus was Gen. Betrayus. Leave politics on the the politcal blogs please!
Kity Kaat:
No one wants David Ortiz part deux. Will Delmon be that good in 1 yr, 2 yrs, 5 yrs? Who knows? People dont want to be on the losing side of that wager again.
why doesnt someone ask Gardy would he consider putting DY in RF and moving Span to LF? is there a reporter in the house, please?
Sorry, everyone, i’m just in a bad mood about this!
Gardy is such an idiot. What does he gain with these comments? There’s nothing good about what he did. It backs Smith into a corner. If Delmon doesn’t get traded this is going to seriously affect his attitude. He’s creating tension. And he’s picking guys who he likes over guys who can help the team win (again). This guy should be locked up during the offseason and no media let within shouting distance of his cage.
Cuddyer has had ONE productive season. ONE!! There’s no indication he can stay healthy or swing the bat like it’s 2007. For everyone who says Delmon is a bust… what exactly would you call Cuddyer. At least Delmon is younger and still has time to realize his potential. Cuddyer has been an underachiever his whole career. Gardy is an idiot.
Sorry… “swing the bat like it’s *2006*”
The big problem with this is that Cuddyer makes WAY too much money. What team is going to want to take on that contract for a marginal player who can’t stay healthy? I agree that Young has a much bigger upside, but at least you could get something for him in a trade.
The Twins release Randy Ruiz.
Regarding Kubel and Young. I don’t think
Young’s going to supplant Kubel at DH. Atleast not against righthanders. Come on, Kubel was second in homers on the team and that’s what the team is seeking out for a guy like Blake to ADD power not REPLACE it.
Look at their numbers against righthanders:
Kubel 364 AB, 17 2B, 5 3B, 17 HR, .283/.366/.497 and .833 OPS
Young 405 AB, 18 2B, 3 3B, 6 HR, .286/.330/.390 and .720
I do believe Young could improve on those numbers, but next year, I don’t expect him to approach Kubel’s numbers.
At best, Young could platoon against lefthanders…where the stats favor him.
i don’t think that young will end up in the hall of fame but he just turned 23 and there are a lot of very good ballplayers that hadn’t played a game in the majors by the time they were 23 including span. so to give up on a guy at that age without getting something very good in return doesn’t make sense.
Young for JJ Hardy?
Forget recession and economic woes: The Giants signed Rentaria to a 2 year $18.5 M contract
wow you guys are stirred up more then Johan-Gate last offseason!!
bottom line Cuddy should be traded for either a
1)3rd baseman (Blake sucks & is 35!!!)
2)SS
Twins would save money to spend on shoring up bullpen and either 3rd or SS BUT!!!
Gardy loves Cuddy for his magic tricks(especially on the bases, who can forget his tumble weed on top of his head) and Gardy is mad that Billy hasn’t resigned LNP yet..
Delmon will be a lot better then Span in future - look how long it took Span to make the club - and no excuses about Torii being in CF. It seems that Span also is injury prone - check out his minor league history
Cuddy had a bad year - who doesn’t? I bet all of you were loving him in 2006!
I’m pretty sure he didn’t stand infront of the ball and ask Garrret Jones to hit him in the foot.
“Delmon will be a lot better then Span in future”
Asinine comment. You have a time machine or looking in your crystal ball?
[…] http://www.startribune.com – […]
A couple more SS changed teams today: Greene to St Louis and Jack Wilson to the Tigers.
This sounds great disassemble the most talented outfield in baseball!! So that some chump(Cuddy) who is getting paid too much can play a shitty right field. If Young goes and Cruddy stays then I’m selling my season tickets. Not to mention the twins seen to be hell bent on over paying senoir citizens to play the hot corner(Blake).Blake and Cuddy are not the right handed pop we should add to the line-up. Either land some one younger than 30 or don’t even bother. Hardy, Aitkins, Burrell, Dunn, Greene, Beltre, anything but Cuddy and Blake both in the line-up. Ever since TK left we never get these things right!
Fire, I was wondering if you were in winter hibernation!
Magic tricks in the clubhouse and giving Gardy a good chuckle by repeatedly sliding into 1st base head first are much more important than junk like RBI’s.
Gardy needs to get a clue. Young has potential if he wants to develop him. Cuddyer has been given the chance to bat between Mauer and Morneau without a lot of success. Heh as been injured pretty much all the time. How can you put your stock in a guy who is never even on the field? Cuddyer is the Punto of the outfield. Gardy needs to quit playing his pets, and make this team a contender!
This organization hasn’t had a player of DY talent level since Puck had to retire!!! He will be an MVP one day.
This just makes no sense!!Why would Gardy say this? He pretty much made it so DY has no future here. Like Young is going to want to play for a coach or organization who would disrespect him like this and is stupid enough to think that Micheal Cuddeyer has more to offer the team then one of the unanimously haralded young talents in the game. STUPID…STUPID…STUPID..
I wouldn’t worry too much about down the road. I see a Revere, Hicks, Morales outfield in five years. Span, Gomez, Cuddyer, Kubel, Pridie, and Martin should satisfy us until the superstars show up.
Young is better than all the outfielder we have now or in the minors!!
HELLO #1 Rated Prospect in all baseball
The only way all this crap I’m hearing is acceptable is if they plan to sign and trade Blake and Young for Hardy.
see ya Young!!!!. IT HASN’T BEEN NICE SEEING YA!!!
I find that one hard to believe.
There is no way Cuddyer is as valuable now or in five years to this team as Young is.
That cannot be true.
“#1 Rated prospect in all baseball”
Not any more.
That was in 2006.
Baseball America would like to request a “DO OVER”.
Dont trade Young. I think he is a better DH than Kubel. Everyday. I know some people will disagree with me and you are entitled to, but that is my opinion. Trade Kubel if you have to trade someone.
Gardy=idiot
If the Twins trade for JJ Hardy and then sign Punto and Blake, Hardy will never get to play.
This is the dumbest thing Gardy has done since letting Rincon stay in to face Ruben Siera during the 2004 ALDS.
Can we call Tom Kelly out of retirement? That statement by Gardy seems very stupid.
Here is what I think happened:
LNP: “Hey Cuddy, since I am going to make the big bucks and be flashing my glove with another team in 2009 I wanted to see if you were interested in securing your starting job with the Twins?”
Cuddy: “How?”
LNP: “Over the years with the Twins I have acquired certain items which have helped me be a starter even though everyone knows my butt belongs on the bench. With my stuff, Gardy could never say no to starting me.”
Cuddy: “Oh that’s how you did it? Well I need that edge since I can’t juice up and Delmon is a better hitter than me. All I have is my cannon arm.”
LNP: “Yeah Delmon needs to go! Twins don’t need that guy! You are the man Cuddy. So let me help YOU. I can give you everything I have for the one time price of $50,000.”
Cuddy: “Wow that’s a lot Nicky.”
LNP: “Well I know that Harris is interested too. I mean that guy should have been playing over me anyway since he can hit in the clutch.”
Cuddy: “Boy I dunno man.”
LNP: “C’mon Cuddy, you know you need this. Just like I NEED to always slide headfirst into 1st base. This will give the edge man. Pictures, video, audio-I got it all for ya man!.”
Cuddy: “Will you gift wrap it? I want it under my X-mas tree.”
LNP: “You bet buddy. And for an extra $200, I will dress up in my elf costume an deliver it in person!”
Cuddy: “Oh sweet, you kept the costume! That’s worth the money alone! Bring it on over! I wanna be the man in Minnesota!”
Holy moley, I just thought of something- Gardy is diabolically clever! He rattled your cage- he’s gotten all of you “Delmon Young is terrible!” people to defend and lobby in support of keeping the guy- which Gardy/Smith actually want to do. So now you won’t complain when the Twins hang onto the “bust” and play him every day, and you’ll be more inclined to cut Delmon some slack since, as you put it, he has so much potential and will be better in just a few years.
Gardy is an evil genius.
P.S. Shaun- that’s mostly funny, even if this point has already been driven into the ground, and I can totally picture Punto in an elf costume-
But I take issue with Cuddy and “the juice.” I don’t believe for a second that Cuddy was ‘roided up.
I don’t think he is terrible. He can hit better than Cuddy. Argue that one.
“I wouldn’t worry too much about down the road. I see a Revere, Hicks, Morales outfield in five years. Span, Gomez, Cuddyer, Kubel, Pridie, and Martin should satisfy us until the superstars show up’
I think why a lot of people are upset is that Delmon has a ton of power potential and Hicks is the only prospect that has a chance to reach the power potential Young has.
Here’s an interesting comparison:
Kirby Puckett
Age 24 stats (rookie year): 557 ABs, 12 2Bs, 5 3Bs, 0 HRs, 31 RBI, .296 batting avg, .320 obp
Age 25 stats: 691 ABs, 29 2Bs, 13 3Bs, 4 HRs, 74 RBI, .288 batting avg, .330 obp
Delmon Young
Age 21 stats (rookie year): 645 ABs, 38 2Bs, 0 3Bs, 13 HRs, 93 RBI, .288 batting avg, .316 obp
Age 22 stats: 575 ABs, 28 2Bs, 4 3Bs, 10 HRs, 69 RBI, .290 batting avg, .336 obp
I would have been perfectly happy if Gardy had said Cuddyer needs to be in the outfield everyday and Delmon’s bat needs to be in the lineup everyday. Read that way, Jason Kubel seems to be the one out of the picture.
Swannie,
Cuddy on juice?
One good year and a broken-down wreck ever since.
What other evidence is there?
The only one on the juice was everyone’s hero Kirby Puckett.
Did you seriously just use my username. Thats f’d up.
No. This site does that alot recently.
Delmon Young has a great future ahead of him. He is already fat and out of shape so he has diabetes to look forward to like his brother.
Okay. My bad. I will remember that in the future. Thanks, Walter.
Keem em all. Gotta figure you’re going to lose Gomez as soon as he’s able to leave. His agent is Scott Boras.
I think that this is a mind game to put a fire under Young for next season.
Nothing more.
I hope you are right $50.
I think a lot of people are concerned that trading Delmon is giving up on him and admitting a mistake. Its really not that big of a deal.
Delmon was a young and overly highly touted prospect when he was traded to the Twins. Those types of players are described as “high ceiling,” “massive upside,” “five tool players,” etc. etc. etc. Too often they become a flash in the pan.
Don’t get me wrong Delmon has some good abilities, but in some narrow areas. He also has some absolutely huge gaps in his game that I’m not convinced he can adequately ever overcome. Its very doubtful that he’s the next David Ortiz or Manny Ramirez as some people in these blogs have said.
Cumulatively, he just isn’t a great fit for this team. His best role would be as a platoon DH with Kubel and see if he is able to develop DH power over time. However, he’s not going to be happy in a part time role here or anywhere else. And if other teams still perceive him with more value than that and are willing to trade us someone with “massive” potential to fill one of our existing gaps (SS, 3B, BP) then we should make the move.
There’s the part about trading Delmon and admitting a mistake on a highly touted prospect and there’s the other side that shows a front office that has the savvy to take risks and rebound in an effort to continue to pursue becoming a winning team that can go somewhere in the playoffs. This team has a window of 2-3 years to win with the current core of players. If that means trading Delmon for one of the missing complimentary pieces, than so be it. Five years if and when he becomes something in this league, the Twins could very well be in another rebuilding phase.
If Young is a better r/f than l/f, and Span is a much better fielder in either position, why not put Span in left and Young in right? That would give us 2 great and one good arms in the of, and improve overall o.f. defense. The fact that Gomez is 2 years away from being a capable hitter at the M.L. level might also be considered. Young is a complete jerk, but, if he dh’s some and plays his stongest o.f. position, he may be a decent #7 hitter. If there are teams who look at his youth and see a lot of upside potential, trade him to one of them for a strong s.s. prospect, and stop letting plus relievers sign for short money with other teams.
Perhaps Gardy was referring to how terrible Young is in the field compared to those 3. I don’t take this as shove out the door.
Unbelievable!
A. 2-3 years for our core is just not true. We are a very young team and to limit our chances of winning beyond that is naive.
B. Huge gaps- If he is DHing that eliminates every gap besides some plate discipline.
C. How can you call someone a flash in the pan when they are this young.
I still believe that he could be another great hitter. Manny most likely not. Ortiz maybe.
Howard why do you post this junk? I really value a quote from the Fargo Forum.Why don’t you get on the phone and get some real information instead of stirring the pot with this junk!There is no way BS would trade DY just for the simple fact he would be admitting he made a mistake when he traded for him!
Cuddyer has a bad attitude and is selfish. He wont play 3B. Flat out refuses. Prima Donna …
“Delmon was a young and overly highly touted prospect when he was traded to the Twins. Those types of players are described as “high ceiling,” “massive upside,” “five tool players,” etc. etc. etc. Too often they become a flash in the pan. ”
that could also be said for all the guys in the minors that are going to come save the day in a yr or 2!
Does anyone else feel that the new ballpark will make some guys better and other not as good? Some say the turf is a huge advantage.
Don’t ever tell me that Cuddy is a NOT a fantastic magician!
He just made Delmon disappear!
I don’t know if Young is going to be superstar or not, but I can be reasonable certain Cuddyer will not be. It is true that due to utter lack of production, injuries, and a bloated salary, Cuddyer has virtually no trade value while Young has some due to his “upside.” Thus, the question isn’t so much whether to get rid of Young or Cuddyer, but whether the team is better with Cuddyer and the player(s) you get for Young, or better with Young and the player(s) (which probably won’t amount to much more than a bucket of balls) you can get for Cuddyer. Since there are no clear options on the table, this is an impossible question to answer right now. All things being equal, if one has to go, it makes sense to keep Young as opposed to Cuddyer for all the reasons listed above (age, upside, salary, etc.). While I don’t know just how good Young will be, we do know what Cuddyer’s best is, and it isn’t all that impressive. Why not try for something better?
Just an observation: Young increased his BB in 2008 from 2007 and reduced his K’s over the same period. That’s a good sign. He didn’t start hitting until he was 200 AB into the year. That sometimes happens when guys get traded, even veterans (JD Drew, most recently).
All that being said, I’m still not convinced trading anyone is necessary due to a glut of OF/DH. Due to Cuddyer’s ability to play multiple positions (and lack of trade value), I would prefer to keep all five OF/DH for depth purposes, something the club rarely has. Oh, and regardless of what your theory is regarding Gardy’s motivation for his comments, it was not a good move. In my opinion, the less said about personnel in the public arena, the better.
Hank, you know how DY hits inside out and a lot of dribblers up the middle? A lot of those hits might go away once he gets off the Metrodome carpet and into the new stadium. Another reason why needs to learn to drive the ball more…
Evidently, the Twins don’t care if they’re last in AL home runs year after year. I can already see a middle of the pack season again. Just once, I’d like to see the Pohlads field the best team they can, and strive for a championship, not just being competitive and maybe winning their division.
They are trying to make Cuddyer valueable so they can trade him and not young. Thats my theory
E7, that still comes back to plate discipline. If he waits for better pitches, he drives the ball more. That can be taught.
I still think people are overreacting. The sourced article has Gardy talking about how he likes Blake at 3rd. Then the topic starts up about the OF.
Gardy prefers those three players defensively. I’m sorry…who here disagrees there?
Nobody asked Gardy about the hitting…just the fielding. Gardy can just as easily have Young in as a DH (which may mean things for Kubel), but it by no means is saying Gardy and the Twins have given up on Young.
Quit overreacting.
ggg: Unlike the guys in our minor league system, DY was acquired by us in a trade for 2 of our starters. Plus after the lack of power in 2007 plus the loss of Torii, DY was obtained to be part of the power/HR answer. Clearly a dissappointment.
If we could trade any of our minor league prospect for 2 MLB starters, I’d do that trade today…
Maybe Gardy was just playing up to the farmers. Everyone knows they hate Delmon.
Addendum: I have to admit that it’s rather amusing to watch all of the Delmon Young hate that’s been spiraling around since people realized Punto probably wouldn’t be back is suddenly gone now that there’s a chance to bash the manager instead.
“Young sucks…get rid of Young!”
Headline: Gardy doesn’t like Young.
“Gardy’s a moron…fire Gardy!”
“DY was obtained to be part of the power/HR answer. Clearly a dissappointment.”
I agree Young was acquired to add power. But can you say he was expected to produce 30 homers last year? He only hit 13 HR in 2007. I think that clearly when you bring in a guy with only a single year of major league experience, you are hoping for him to produce, over time - not immediately. Otherwise they should have gone after someone established. They didn’t. They brought in a 22-year old with one season under his belt. Maybe to fans who had unreasonable expectations he was a disappointment. If DY is to the FO they are idiots.
I agree with Boneyards comment that whatever the motivation, Gardy should not have made the comment - either that or it was taken way out of context. I hear there are a lot of media jackels in Fargo…
T is right too - who thinks Delmon should be a starting outfielder anyway, he’s pretty bad.
Bottom line is its probably best to keep the surplus of outfielders unless you can get a bona fide MLB SS, 3B or BP for Delmon. If not, you hang onto him - but at least use him properly…that is as a DH platoon with Kubel. Out of the 3 other outfielders and DY/Kubel, the most talented will rise to the top eventually, or someone will get hurt, or someone will become even more tradeable by the trading deadline in hopefully an exchange we can’t let go by…
Craig Monroe and Mike Lamb were supposed to be the power replacements for Hunter.
Both had much better power numbers prior to 2008 than Delmon.
Walter, there were plenty of comments from people both inside and outside the Twins touting Delmon hitting 20+ HR’s per year…starting in 2008.
Ten more dingers might have made the need for game 163 moot.
Keith Law: (1:07 PM ET ) The confused person here is Gardenhire. And seriously, shut your damn mouth before you devalue Young any more. I would be through the roof if I was a GM and my manager started popping off about a player like that. Just. Stop. Talking.
My thinking is trade Kubel. He had the best year he is going to put up and that wasn’t even that great. He is worse then both Cuddyer and Young. He is at the highest trade value he will ever be. Young is to young and Cuddyer is just coming back from an injured year.
Left field in the Dome is known as one of the hardest positions to play. I can put up with Young out there for one more year and then let him go play outside. Anyone ever think of Cuddyer being the utlitiy guy. He is a good right fielder because his arm, but he can play a little 3b, 2b, 1b. I would like to have a utility guy who can hit more then 10 HR a season.
We’ve got to the point in Minnesota where we think 20 HR’s per year is some high in the sky achievement from only superstar players that we don’t deserve.
My gosh, look at the number of 20 HR hitters on the playoff rosters from this last year. We have to be able to have more than one to have a realistic chance of competing - I don’t think that’s asking too much…
Unbelievable,
I’ll be one to admit that I was disappointed that Delmon did not hit more HRs, just like I was disappointed that Morneau never came close to hitting 30 this year. But I was HOPING Delmon would hit a bunch, not EXPECTING him to do it and then when he didn’t say that getting him was a mistake (or a “disaster” in the words of Jim Souhan). (NOT to say that that is what YOU meant).
the braves are looking for an outfielder and are willing (supposedly) to trade kelly johnson.
would he be a good fit moving casilla to ss?
WJ: I think you’re right to a certain extent. Part of the mistake was the Twins, media, fans creating the expectation that Delmon was the primary answer to the power problem of 2007. I think that’s to be expected to a certain degree when you give up 2 decent starters for the guy that headlined the trade.
Also from Keith Law in regards to the Cantu lovers.
“I can’t believe anyone is thinking of acquiring Cantu. He’s awful. His .327 OBP was his best ever in a full season, and he’s a butcher everywhere he plays. Good luck with that. “
ggg, I also heard the Braves are looking for both an outfielder and a bat for the middle of the order. Why not Delmon for Yunel Escobar straight up?
can someone give mea scouting report on yunel escobar? just how good is he? his stats seem a bit underwhelming right now
Kelly Johnson’s stats look good - both hitting and fielding… what’s the inside scoop on him, or if the Braves would really shop him.
I’d also do Delmon for Escobar -
Unbelievable:
Garza was less of an established starter than Delmon. The core of the trade was two youngsters with potential. Nobody should have been expecting either one to be an All-Star at their positions last year. Garza has ace potential. Was he a disapointment because he didn’t take over the top spot in the Rays’ rotation last year?
What does being a farmer have to do with not like Delmon…???
Cuddyer has a bad attitude and is selfish. He wont play 3B. Flat out refuses. Prima Donna …
That kind of attituted can be a cancer in the clubhouse.
Mistake to trade Young. I’m of the belief that Garza would have been a cancer in the clubhouse had he stayed with the Twins, so I’m giving Bill a break there. Span was so not trusted by the front office, we traded Johan to mainly get a future CF and Garza/Bartlett to get a RF. Now, all of the sudden we want to flip Young despite him being our 3rd best hitter for most of the year last year? I know he has his faults, watching him take hacks at every other pitch and play LF was frustrating to say the least. But he has tremendous upside, and if it comes down to it, Denard Span is a quicker, more powerful version of Jason Tyner. Young, even though he had a disappointing season last year, has great upside. The fan in me wants to see Denard stay a Twin a long time, but if we are keeping Cuddy and Gomez, my head says that Young will be the better hitter in the long run. I think this is a mistake, and we are giving up on Delmon too soon.
Escobar has a .300 average over the past 2 seasons, had 10 HR’s last year and a .970 fielding pctg. 26 years old, could be a SS to build around…
Kelly Johnson is rumored to be on the block for an outfielder. Last time he played SS was in 2003. He is a lefty hitter. Not sure how good a match would be for the Twins…
mike wants wins says:
Keith Law: (1:07 PM ET ) “The confused person here is Gardenhire. And seriously, shut your damn mouth before you devalue Young any more. I would be through the roof if I was a GM and my manager started popping off about a player like that. Just. Stop. Talking.”
Did he really say this? In a chat or a blog or what?
Gardy is also the guy that started Lew Ford over Michael Cuddyer in 2006, after Cuddyer batted nearly .500 in spring training (note: Cuddyer missed a couple of weeks of spring training, but still, he crushed the ball that spring when he did play.) Anyways, the only reason Cuddyer got to play full time in 2006 was because Ford got hurt. So I’m not too impressed with Gardy’s judgement of talent. Especially since he keeps finding ways to stick a utility infielder into the starting line-up day in and day out.
Young Mr. Young: See ball, miss ball, get traded after a year, do not pass go, do not go to Murry’s, do not eat a big steak.
E7,
let me rearrange what you said a bit:
Delmon Young has a .290 average over the past 2 seasons, had 10+ HR’s the last 2 years and a .985 fielding pctg. 23 years old, could be a RF to build around…
GCO,
live chat on ESPN.com now
Yes, Span was untrusted until the second half of last year…now he looks more like Jacoby Ellsbury than Jason Tyner. Hope there’s not the sophomore jinx with him, he looks to have the potential to be the kind of lead off hitter and defensive outfielder we need. Plus, he’s no clubhouse cancer. Not a bad story to be the heir apparent to Torii, lose out to Gomez, get sent back to the minors only to come back and make impact like he did last year.
The thing with Escobar is that he is the center piece to the Peavy trade. The Padres just traded Greene(starting SS) today to the Cardinals. If we could get Escobar it would be great, but not going to happen.
Thry: good numbers for a SS, not a corner outfielder/DH. Gotta have more power there and 3B to expect to go anywhere in this league…
Gardy, Gardy, Gardy……
Let Delmon hit HR’s and bat .260….at DH.
Time to trade my favorite, Kubel.
Be bold, Bill Smith.
Dr. izzill:
Loved the quote about Delmon and his friendly pickle…I always said he looks like Captain Jack Sparrow running around in high heels. If you could trade Cuddy and a prospect for a talent like JJ Hardy that would be great but Cuddy doesn’t exactly have a low salary. This is a tough one. Both take faith in players that havent played as expected in the last season.
E7,
Thry: good numbers for a SS, not a corner outfielder/DH. Gotta have more power there and 3B to expect to go anywhere in this league…
I guess that would apply for Span, too; correct? 
To me this comment does not seem to be a good idea. Why call out one of your players like this? If the organization feels this way then that is OK, but why announce it at this juncture of the off season?
Now I would think they have to unload Delmon, the manager just stated publicly that if he gets his way Delmon is not a future starter for this team.
Yes, KLaw just finished his weekly chat. I copied that when it was free. He also, right near the end, said Delmon was not a bust yet. He didn’t say if he thought he would be or not, in typical KLaw fashion, he just answered the is he a bust question (and also said he’s young).
E7,
You preferred the LF numbers of RondDL White, Jason Tyner, Lew Ford and Josh Rabe from 2007?
thrylos98,
Right on.
Span should be a centerfielder IMHO. I’m not a big Gomez fan at all, but if he has such “5 tool” potential as others seem to refer to alot…then let him develop as your power corner outfielder.
I really cant see the point in getting rid of any outfielder. DY’s trade value has decreased coming out of last year and considering it is just one year away from the Garza/Bartlett trade, Smith and company will save face and not sell while his stock is low. Besides, as a decent right handed bat who does not eat up a lot of salary, he still has an important role in this organization, overrated as he may be.
My guess is that Young will likely be a starting OF by the end of the season. Keep this in mind:
Go-Go is still a loose cannon who could foul-bunt himself out of the lineup if he dosen’t kill himself making a spectacular catch in the outfield first.
Span was electrifying for a few months last season, but he has a ways to go before he proves that his uncharacteristically potent offensive numbers were because of Lasik and not just a not a well-timed hot streak.
Cuddyer is the closest thing we have to a “proven MLB outfielder” and he is streaky and injury prone.
Even though our outfield looks crowded on paper, the way I see it, we have four outfielders who each have a lot to prove.
Unless we can somehow make a significant upgrade in the infield without having to give up one of our young pitchers, which is unlikely, I cant see us benefiting from trading Young, or any outfileder until at least the deadline in July.
The best thing we can hope for with this “surplus” is that Gardy makes them all compete for thier jobs and plays the best three. And by best I mean best at baseball, not at magic tricks or making public appearances.
Managing / PR FAIL
Why not keep the roster intact and fill in the holes for 3rd and ss. There should be open spots from the departure of lamb and everett. Keep all of the outfielders, it can only help to have depth in all positions.
I’m inclined to agree with medschoolmatt who is actually has statistical measurement of ability to retrieve catchable balls compared to Cudduyer or the rest of the league. Put Young in left, and all he has to do is stand there. Anything hit over his head will go off the baggy (or the limestone bluff) and he can wheel and gun down fools thinking they have an easy double. Few will test him first to third. He’s a tailor made right fielder. Cuddyer is a fine player, great in the clubhouse, but a career underachiever. Personally, I don’t think either of them offer significant trade value, i.e. we will not get for either what they’re actually worth. Let’s keep them both, have options, keep everyone fresh, take some pressure of Cuddy in his comeback year, and off D Young in general. Then, maybe we can unload one or the other at the break if we still have needs.
PS - Delmon Young’s lack of power is probably attributable to his inability to catch up to a fastball, which is somehow counteracted by his amazing ability to stay on the breaking ball. Generally, he’ll get behind in the count 0-2, then just try to keep his hands back and punch the ball to right. His ability to hit .290 with that sort of approach is nothing short of amazing. However, it doesn’t give him a lot of opportunity to uncork. He needs to work on plate discipline then sit dead red, and not worry about flailing at an offspeed pitch.
Cuddyer always looks off balance to me. He keeps his head on the ball extremely well, but he’s always leaning or falling over the plate. Thus he tends to be a low-ball hitter, as his swing plane drops as well. Compare to Mauer or Morneau and look how upright they stay when they’re going good.
Just from what I know form the inside…Delmon doesn’t fit. If you don’t fit and the vibe hits the coaches…see ya! Delmon is very over rated only because of the family relation to Demitri. Open your eyes people…we have a solid line-up if we get Casey back. A comment I read earlier about the ‘Ortiz trade’…I hope you’re not referring to David. We didn’t trade him. If you’re referring to Ramon…LOL. Sorry…he was too streaky. We need a one more starter and we will be set. Just remember fans…clubhouse chemistry and a players personality comes into play 100% with the Twins!
trelund, yes unless you can trade a surplus outfielder to fill the gaps at SS, 3b with a bona fide MLB player. i.e. Delmon for Escobar
Delmon at DH and backup to the outfield, trade Kubel, Harris and Boonser for a shortstop and sign Punto as your infield backup.
Why do so many people have to have this picture perfect idea of a position player and his numbers? If you get power and run production from 3B, SS, 2B, OF or whereever, who the heck cares as long as you get it and you win.
The idea is to score more runs that the other team right? We nearly made the playoffs with only 2 guys to (barely) eclipse 20 HR’s and I think if we balance the team even more we’ll be alright.
Young is frustrating at times (some call him a jerk - if only for his lackluster personality but he goes about his business the best he knows how; you can’t fault a guy if he’s not a ‘fan fave’ as long as he does his job). Yes he runs funny, but he gets the job done. His power will come - not sure how much, but it is on its way. the more .300 hitters you have, the better. While I love Cuddy, the guy has never even come within 10 tics of it. Lay off Young, give him time, and he’ll show you he was worth giving up the Hotheaded Garza.
Sign Blake - meet him halfway on the 3rd year (milestones, player option, something) and he’ll come here. Adding another guy with 20 HR’s and a respectable .270 average can’t hurt
To be honest, Escobar, while he is good and has plenty of potential, Harris has shown he can put up similar numbers with only a tad less in average, speed and range (and a tad is small mind you). He also showed he was clutch, and was a doubles machine. And his versatility (heck he’s even played 1B) make him a solid asset. I’d rather keep harris and use my tradable assets to get something else (ie Hardy or no one at SS) or even Peavy - what would it take to get him?
Also, we should sign grudz if he’s still available - if not for his *gasp* .300 average, he’s a vet that can help out Casilla at 2B (who’d move to SS, his natural position). He’d also allow guys like Tolbert to mature another year.
Peavy - what is he going for? I see Cubs offering him Vitters - an A-level prospect who looks good but is that the best they can do? I say we can do better, and if we do, we get a stud for the rotation. We could offer up Perkins, an OF and something else to SD for him, and see what happens
If we get someone like peavy, what would it take to sign Burrel? Is he still wanting 15 mill? if we could get him down to maybe 12-14, he’d be a great fit. Say we sign him, Blake and trade for Peavy (ie lose Cuddy, Perkins, Mulvey, some other stuff) we could be contenders right now.
If the GM couldn’t trade the surplus outfielder for a bona fide MLB player and if I were the manager (don’t worry I won’t quit my day job just yet) here’s how I would handle the 5 player scenario:
CF - Span
LF - Gomez
RF - 2/3 Cuddy, 1/3 Delmon
DH - split between Kubel and Delmon
Everyone would get at least 400 at bats and we would see who would rise to the top over time and adjust accordingly.
I’m surprised at Keith Law’s evident hatred for Gardy. That was an interesting overreaction on his chat. But then, Law never really has anything nice to say about the Twins/Gardy.
this needs to happen trade delmon young and a pitcher for a quality short stop. you will not lose anything in the oufield because you have priddie mcdonald martin reveree and hicks in the minor league coming up and furthermore you have much depth in the minor leauge in pitching sign blake give up two players and pick up jj hardy thus you lose one player in the making to gain two and your depth in the minor league is in your pitching if need be pick up a veteran pitcher but you need power in the infield blake hardy go
Once again NO talk of adding any power hitters. If they think Blake is going to be an everyday power hitter they’re fooling themselves. We’ll compete in the division as always but we’ll never get past the 1st round of the playoffs. Nice how the city builds a new stadium for Pohlad’s and since that announcement there hasn’t been any improvement to the team as far as really trying to win it. The Twins are so predictable and there won’t be any improvements in a year from now in the new stadium. Thats just what they want you to think that they’re preparing for 2010.
Cuddyer is a class act and he has a great arm but we’ve seen his upside. He has really slow feet and isn’t terrible athletic. If he dove for a ball at 3rd when he played there it would take him 10 minutes to get up. He’s not very agile. He’s a decent hitter and handles being between two future HOF’ers pretty well. Delmon Young is still maturing and has great potential. He’s a pure hitter and will probably average over .300 the next few years. Oh about his defense- Young has a cannon arm and I was critical of his fielding until I learned he had a bad ankle and needed surgery. That explains his flat footed hesitancy out there. Plain and simple- You keep all of them until Gomez matures into an every day player. And wasn’t Span a joy to watch last year. Interesting that he didn’t make the team last year out of training camp but is now the best OF we have.
One thing that I have seen mentioned a few times recently was the fact the Twins scored so many runs with their .300+ team BA with RISP. The Twins were the only team in MLB to hit over .300 with RISP in 2008.
While that is good, I just don’t see the Twins repeating that. How often in crucial games did the Twins strand 7-12 guys on base?
With more HR hitters to balance out the singles/doubles hitters like Mauer the Twins wouldn’t be so prone to leaving ducks on the pond. One swing of the bat would help the Twins win more games (ask Jim Thome how one swing of the bat can matter).
Plus wouldn’t we rather see a Grand Slam here and there versus an inning ending double play the Twins are so adept at?
Keep Delmon and figure out a way to get JJ Hardy. Blake isn’t worth 3 years.
medschool,
Vitters is the Cubs best prospect, who was expected to be the #2 overall pick in the 2007 draft.
We can’t do better and to even be close, we would have to give up Aaron Hicks.
Agree with you about Grudz.
JC, if you don’t think Delmon Young was an improvement over the LF platoon of the last two years…take your blinders off.
Not to mention Brendan Harris produced numbers equivalent if not better to the mighty Jason “I’m MVP even though Evan freakin’ Longoria’s on my team” Bartlett.
“We could offer up Perkins, an OF and something else to SD for him, and see what happens”
We could take bets as to how long it takes him to invoke his no-trade clause…
@ December 4th, 2008 at 2:23 pm Nate says: “Cuddyer is a class act…”
Come to think of it, why is he such a “class act”? b/c he talks well in front of the camera? I’ve always thought he was a “nice” guy. but whats the deal with refusing to ever play 3B again? what if anyone else besides Mauer, Mourneau refused to play a position? at least M & M have accomplishment to deserve that kind of status. what has Cuddy done to be such a prima donna? fulfilled our low expectations in the OF for 2006 and sucked in 2007? no thanks!! i dont like this double standard for “good attitude” “character” crap. try to imagine DY saying “I wont play LF” - you guys would be all over him!!!
my money’s pretty soon - he’s seeing what a sinking ship the padres are becoming
I would’nt give up on DY yet either unless you can get a stud SS and a 3B prospect to take over for Blake if/when he’s signed. It just does’nt look good to give up on him after one yr after letting go of Garza. It would take a very good deal to part with DY at this point. Depth is never a bad thing and he could always split DH with Kubel or be insurance for injuries, look what happened to Cuddy last yr.
Trade Cuddyer and low prospects for RP. Trade Kubel and starter for Hardy and prospects. Sign Blake and insted of spending 9 mill on other washed up players go after Dunn. Use him as the DH. We would have him with 40hr 80-100rbi hitting in the 6 hole. The money would be free with trading Cuddyer.
Thyros,
In the Keith Law chat a Phillie fan talked about a trade of Donald for Young. Law thought that would be fair value
Your thoughts???
Jason Donald that is a AA SS
I really cant believe we’re having this discussion. If they mess with this team, they had better show more than 88 wins next year.
danimals, I don’t get why you think Cuddy should volunteer to play a position where he never felt comfortable. His offense and defense would probably suffer, and the Twins still would not have an elite third baseman.
a Phillie fan talked about a trade of Donald for Young. Law thought that would be fair value
I think that he overvalues Donald. He is a good bat but still needs to grow as a fielder (I saw about 20 Reading AA games this year, btw). The thing about such a trade (in addition that Donald would not be enough) is that he is a year older than DY and never played an inning above AA. The Twins need help next year not in 2010-1 when Donald will be ready. That’s why it does not make much sense to me.
The only Phillie I would potentially see as a match for Young is Jimmy Rollins.
To the self-proclaimed ‘insider’ whoever you may be…..
Trading Ortiz, letting him walk, WHATEVER. The point is, TR didn’t forgive himself for letting him go and I think BS will come to see the error of his ways too if he lets Young walk. You can’t give the guy forever, but at this point he’s had one solid season and one mediocre one with us. I’d say he’s worth one more year to see if he can get back on track.
matt
Peavy gave the Pads a short list of teams he would go to. Just like Santana did last year with the Twins. If they want to move him bad enough, they will work something out with one of those teams. If not, they may get hime to expand his list, but he has made it clear he wants to stay in the NL.
Swammie,
It’s not that i’m advocating his move to 3B. It’s just that when the idea was floated out there, he made it known there was no way he’d play 3B.
What I’m getting to is the double standard in some places to certain people. I dont think he’s someone with enough of a career to be making these kind of comments to get such a pass from fans and media. He’s not Jeter or A’rod. But we let it go.
For the second half of the double standard, it keeps getting posted here that DY is probably “cancer” or “uncoachable” or hinting at something of that nature. but we dont have anything solid to substantiate that. not like Cuddy saying there’s no way he would play 3B.
That’s a double standard. it’s time to get of DY’s back. He looks like he’s 30, but he’s only 23. he has more talent than Cuddy. Get used to it - he wont ever turn white….
Do not trade Kubel. Look at his career numbers for age and compare them with Ortiz at the same age. Trade Kubel and you really will have another Ortiz on your hands.
saam,
the difference between Santana last year and Peavy this year is that Santana did not have an all out no-trade clause like Peavy. He had his preferences and the Twins worked to accommodate him but he could have been traded to any place liked it or not. Peavy has veto over any trade. And there is no way that he will consider the Twins, unless the move to North Carolina (Remember that? )
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]
if he wouldn’t consider playing for a team like the Twins, then i dont want him anyway (unless its because he prefers then NL, maybe he likes to hit i dont know; if thats the case i dont fault him)
medschoolmatt,
he (Peavy) is from the south (AL) and wants to move closer to his family.
i respect that; best of luck to him
how much is burrel asking for? i’d love him at DH.
thylos the rollins trade seems doable. they have said they would listen, he has declined the last few yrs but still is very good. may need some other player/prospects involved.
i find it funny how many great guys still in the minors at 24-25 are so much better than young.
do you have any idea how many 22 yr olds played full time in the ml last yr?
All right, I see your point, danimals. But Cuddy, while not a national superstar, has the longest major league tenure with the Twins and has plenty of fans who wear his jersey. He’s no A-Rod- but he’s no Howie Clark, either. Cuddy’s contributed a lot to the club for quite a few years, but he doesn’t have the star cred of Joe Mauer or Justin Morneau to start making demands of the club.
Luckily, I bet there’s no internal friction within the Twins org. about Cuddy’s statement, since they probably agree with his assessment of his defensive skills anyway.
I agree that people need to lay off Delmon Young and cut him some slack- in the last thread, I said that he’s been a model citizen with the Twins as far as we know. Though I disagree that it’s about racism. It’s about unrealistic expectations and Young’s inability to show fans a good personality.
Someone early on said it right. Gardy needs to think before he speaks. I can still hear TK talking about Mr. Ryan (Terry) giving him the player for him to coach and that’s what his job is to do..coach. Stuff like this in the paper can only “splinter” a clubhouse….Go Twins!!!!!!!!
I doubt Young is going anywhere. It wouldn’t be a wise trade unless we got max value for him which I doubt we’ll get. Basically, we get a starting SS/3B for him. Remember last year when everyone on this blog was pissed because we were paying punto 3 million to pinch run and play a little D and Gardy said all of our infielders will get plenty of ab’s. Same thing with the outfield/DH next season. If young is traded it will be for someone just as good and if he isn’t traded he will play a lot. Especially if Cuddy sucks as bad as some of you think. To me this Fargo article is non-news.
where is howard?
I agree that YOung needs to be moved to RF were he bolongs. I know Cuddy provides clubhouse fun with his magic, but he needs to stay healty to help this team. I think Youngs value is greater but adds more to the team than Cuddy. Why not move Cuddy to third? Please to not give Blake a large 3 year deal that he is looking for!!!
InsiderView said: “Just from what I know form the inside…Delmon doesn’t fit. If you don’t fit and the vibe hits the coaches…see ya! Delmon is very over rated only because of the family relation to Demitri. Open your eyes people…we have a solid line-up if we get Casey back. A comment I read earlier about the ‘Ortiz trade’…I hope you’re not referring to David. We didn’t trade him. If you’re referring to Ramon…LOL. Sorry…he was too streaky. We need a one more starter and we will be set. Just remember fans…clubhouse chemistry and a players personality comes into play 100% with the Twins!”
There are a lot of issues I take with this post. First, when does talent begin to outweigh “vibe and fit”? There has to be a tipping point. Does Delmon affect the clubhouse so much that he makes his teammates play with less intensity? I doubt it. Does he have way more potential than Cuddyer and is a cheaper option? Yes. Second, Delmon is overrated because of his brother? It’s not like Dmitri is a superstar. He’s not enough of a house hold name to the point where an average fan would say, “Oh, that’s Dmitri Young’s brother? He must be awesome!” If anything he’s overrated because he was a former top prospect. Dmitri plays no part in that. Third, we have a solid lineup? We have a decent lineup with obvious holes. We don’t have a true #3. We don’t have power. We don’t have a RH bat with pop. Our lineup is not set. And don’t tell me Blake is the answer. he’s just another misguided signing in a long line of misguided signings. When will the FO realize that veterans on the decline are not the answer?!?! Giving three years to Blake is a horrible idea. As far as Ortiz goes, even if the poster got the facts wrong about Ortiz being a FA and us trading him (I didn’t read that post) it doesn’t change the fact that the Twins slap and dash philosophy was a major detriment to Ortiz’ development. You can’t tell a dead pull hitter with tremendous power to hit the ball the other way and expect the best results. I don’t care what any Twins exec/manager says, they screwed up with Papi. And Ramon wasn’t streaky, he was old, he was washed up, and he’s yet another example of a bad FA signing. Blake isn’t at that level, but IMO, giving him 3 years would be almost as bad. And maybe the clubhouse chemistry would be a little better if Gardy didn’t clearly play favorites and give playing time to less talented players because he likes them better as people. It shouldn’t be a popularity contest! It should be about winning! I’m done.
Danimals
Where did you get the data that Cuddy refused to play 3B ?
Here’s my plan.
1) Sign Adam Dunn to be a DH and backup at LF and 1B. He’ll cost more than Blake but he’s almost a lock for 40 HR/100 RBI and 100 BB.
2) Trade one of the following Cuddyer/Span/Young/Kubel (Cuddyer would work best to help offset Dunn’s salary) Blackburn and a prospect to get Atkins from Colorado.
3) Trot out this lineup for opening day
LF - Span
2b - Casilla
C - Mauer
1b - morneau
Dh - Dunn
3b - Atkins
RF - Cuddy/Young/(Kubel only in LF)
SS - Harris (Punto as def replacement)
CF - Gomez
The problem with left-handed hitters in the dome is that if they pull the ball, they pull it smack into the baggie in right. Morneau, and sometimes Kubel, have the power to clear the baggie.
[…] Gardy’s kicked it up a notch in his Delmon-hating game. According to Sinker, Gardy wants a starting outfield in 2009 of Gomez, Span, and Cuddyer. That leaves Delmon on the […]
LTD
I like it.
But I would do this:
Span
Mauer
Atkins
Morneau
Dunn
Cuddy/Delmon/Kubel
New SS or 2B
Casilla at SS or 2B
Gogo
Paul,
It would be from either Lavelle or JC’s blog. i cant go get it now, but give me some time. maybe someone else could find it as well for me? i’m at work
order them how you want. I’m sure the lineup would look different with a LH on the mound. Not sure what Atkins will make (he got 4.8M last year), but you might get Dunn for 10-12M. If you trade Cuddy, you might only have to add 7-10M to the payroll … or about what the Twins would shell out for Blake per season!
I don’t see how sirsean can deduce from Gardy’s comments that Delmon is “useless”. His actual words were “hell of a ball player”, “hell of a talent” and definately “in the mix”, meaning he will get opportunities and at-bats. Definately means Cuddy in the field, but could also mean more DH time for Young. Delmon as RH DH; Kubel as LH DH. Both as reserve outfielders.
Gardy benched Young last year for a few games after bad fielding days. Maybe he sees that Delmons adventures in right field are taking away from his batting. Of course, Gardy could easily have said “..and Delmon will get plenty if at-bats at DH” yesterday, but didn’t. So….still a dumb move.
Gardy benched Young last year for a few games after bad fielding days. Maybe he sees that Delmon’s adventures in right field are taking away from his batting. Of course, Gardy could easily have said “..and Delmon will get plenty of at-bats at DH” yesterday, but didn’t. So….still a dumb move.
Both of these guys have upsides that are different. ( Cuddy=Chemistry+Defense, Delmon= Power off the baggy + POTENTIAL)
Why not keep both, Trade Kubel and an inning buster like Perkins to Milwaukee for Hardy, and play Cuddy in RF, Young at DH.
This adds much needed right handed power to our lineup while keeping both valuable players.
LaVelle posted a new comment. I’m going there (knew something was up when I had back-to-back comments).
Dumb move to even think of getting rid of Young.
What is this love affair with Cuddyer? As pointed out by several posters here, he’s essentially a .265/15/75 career guy. He’ll be 30 by opening day and, as a supposed right-handed power threat, has 75 career homer (just to compare, by age 30, Ken Griffey Jr. had almost 400, Kent Hrbek had over 200, Torii Hunter (a righty) had over 130, and Tom Brunansky (also a righty) had over 260). He has a strong arm, but often looks horribly cement-footed in right field, especially in visitors’ ballparks where he doesn’t have a big plastic baggie to knock the ball down for him. Not to say that Young’s defense last year was anything to write home about (and was often unnerving), but maybe a move back to right field (where he played for Tampa) might help. The problem, as I have been telling people since they signed Cuddyer to that silly $24mil three-year contract (for which the Twins are still on the hook for 2 years and about $18mil, by my calculations), is that now they are stuck with his mediocrity. They’re paying all-star money for production that other teams are getting for less than $3mil (see Juan Rivera, Gabe Kapler, Emil Brown, Eric Hinske, etc.) Now, knowing the Twins, they feel like they’ll have to play him rather than paying him to sit on the bench, and they’ll eat crow before they’ll eat half his contract to trade him. And they’ll let a 22-year-old with a world of potential (who is already out-producing Cuddyer in a “down year”) get away to protect their bad investment. Cuddyer is a great guy to have on your team, as a platoon/4th. outfield option/pinch hitter/occasional DH type player. You look for that player on the market for about $1mil, or plug a prospect into that role to get his feet wet. You can’t keep handing a starting job over to an overpriced, 30-year-old, 7-year veteran who you’re hoping might be a late bloomer, especially when you’re filling your roster with Carl Pohlad’s pocket change.
i believe the twin cities media should be getting in touch with gardy and get clarification on his comments…i would like to hear further explanation from him and i cant believe the media has not yet done this from mpls…….
mj1,
the Twins Cities media will not do that and you know it… If Gardy were managing in New York, the media would have been all over him for this.
Gardy is Teflon-sprayed in this town.
There’s no place for a young, up and coming talent like Delmon Young on this team. We need more guys like Lamb and Everett.
Cuddyer’s value is very low after that poor season so it makes no sense to trade him unless the Twins can completely fleece someone or if they just want to salary dump him and pay part of his salary. I think he can and will comeback so it makes sense for the Twins to hang unto him, at least until he builds some trade value next year.
No Thrylos,
If Gardenhire were managing in New York, he would’ve been fired by now.
What a joke. Ron Gardenhire is a stubborn idiot when it comes to giving out playing time. He constantly benches better talent over guys he has good personal relationships with, and it costs the Twins, plain and simple.
Steve,
I agree.
1) Blake wouldn’t hit behind Morneau, Cuddyer would.
2) I said early in ST 2008 that Young better be pretty good, because they gave up an awful lot to get essentially just him.
They gave up Matt Garza - a highly regarded young pitcher - for Delmon Young - a highly regarded young hitter.
The trade, in essence, makes sense. Kevin, I hope you’re not including Bartlett when you reference “an awful lot.”
I wish people would stop treating Bartlett like he’s even a worthwhile piece to a team.
Average defense, good speed and baserunning skills, and a crappy bat.
The Rays voting him MVP of their club was a joke, not to mention the idiot in Texas who actually gave him a 5th place MVP vote. Jason Bartlett. Are you kidding me?
At any rate, when all is said and done, Delmon should be a .290-.310 20/20 hitter someday, and Garza should be a strong #3 or good #2 starter. The trade, in essence, should end up being fair.
That’s not to say it will, but it’s hard to fault Smith for trading a good young pitcher for a 22-year-old #1 overall draft pick who had been projected to have 30/30 talent.
I agree with most of the comments above, why turn a bad trade into a disater. We all like Cuddy, but DY is a much greater talent. Gardy has to learn to play players he does not like.
I like the idea of Hardy, but they would not want Cuddyer in the trade. Hardy also plays defense about as well as Harris. Blake is also too much money. If you are set on dealing with Milwaukee, have them throw Bill Hall into the deal. He kills left handed pitching, otherwise maybe Florida will give up on Cody Ross. You don’t have to spend big money, just find good players.
seriously gardy what are you thinking giving away the hand to all the players now.. now you have put the GM in a tough spot and killed any chance of a relationship with DElMON. NICE ONE…!!!
Tb,
Bill Hall? Hall is a whiny, overpaid piece of junk who hasn’t shown anything since his one fluke season where he sold his soul to hit 30+ HR. He’s terrible in the field and has an ego that far exceeds his talent level.
As for Cody Ross, why do we want another OF? And more specifically, if we want another OF… why Cody Ross?
It’s almost painful to read these posts. Do any of the Delmon backers know anything about baseball? Or, are you all so gullible you believe everything the Twins PR department told you after giving up Garza? Delmon Young is just another Marty Cordova. I mean, there’s a REASON the Rays offered him to us when we want Upton.
Cuddyer is a great clutch hitter. He’s a leader. He’s passionate player on a team full of boring, Delmon-type players. This team needs a healthy Cuddyer. He’s a better leader, a better defensive player, and a better hitter. When the ball leaves Cuddy’s bat, it makes a special sound.
And, the guy’s going to be 30 next season not 60. He’s not past his prime or washed-up or any of that crap.
You know the biggest difference between the two? Cuddy gets hurt more often…TRYING TO WIN GAMES FOR HIS TEAM!
This team is better with a healthy Cuddy than it is with a healthy Delmon. That’s a fact. Fornicate with your “potential” all you want, but Cuddy is the answer RIGHT NOW, and that’s what we need to win a W.S. ring in 2009.
Fridley Steve, I’m with you 100% on Bartlett. About the only difference between Punto and Bartlett’s numbers last year were their salaries. Bartlett: .286/1/37/.329obp/20sb in 128 games/454ab’s **** Punto: .284/2/28/.344obp/15sb in 99games/338ab’s + web-gem defense anywhere you stick him. Bartlett was a steal at about $400,000 (wait until arbitration). Punto made $2,400,000 as a 6+ year veteran.
LaLa - Sorry, man. “Cuddy’s” numbers simply don’t match up to the fantasy you’ve created. Never have. That “special sound” you hear? That’s a called strike three with runners in scoring position. Who’s buying into the Twins’ PR propaganda?
And Matt “World Series” Garza: 11-9/3.70era/128k/1.24WHIP big whup. **** Scott “He’s Not Too Bad” Baker: 11-4/3.45era/141k/1.18WHIP. Better in every category, and Twins fans want to talk about is how amazing Garza supposedly is. Just because Garza and Bartlett’s team played in the WS and Young’s didn’t doesn’t somehow make the trade into Herschel Walker 2008.
LALA:
You and Gardy are both saying the right things to get the top dollar trade value when the Twins trade Cuddy and his big contract for an infielder on the left side. Keep up the good work!
Cuddyer is a great clutch hitter. He’s a leader. He’s passionate player on a team full of boring, Delmon-type players. This team needs a healthy Cuddyer. He’s a better leader, a better defensive player, and a better hitter. When the ball leaves Cuddy’s bat, it makes a special sound.
that’s Pulitzer fiction price worthy.
Cuddyer is a great clutch hitter
2008 OPS in high leverage situations: .674 (as a comparison in 2008 in high leverage situations, Craig Monroe had a .846 OPS, Adam Everett a .940 and Brendan Harris a .740 and the much maligned Delmon Young a .728)
He’s passionate player on a team full of boring, Delmon-type players.
How do you measure passion? Sliding head first into bases where there is no need? I guess Morneau & Mauer should go too because they do not have that special passion.
He’s a better leader
Yeap. Delmon played hurt in all the second half and the Twins’ training stuff had to haul his rear end out of the lineup to rehab his angle. He did not spend a day in the DL. Cuddy couldn’t play with a finger injury. Young switched positions without saying anything this season. Cuddy is not willing to go back to 3B to solve a problem. Great leader.
a better defensive player
RF? Let’s assume you mean RF.
Career numbers @ RF:
Young: .985 FP, .872 ZR
Cuddyer: .986 FP, .835 ZR
and a better hitter
2008:
Young: OPS: 741
Cuddyer: OPS: .699
It must be the special sound of the ball leaving the bat…
Why don’t the Twins trade Delmon. Then they will have in effect given away a starting shortstop and starting pitcher…all for free with nothing to show for it.
All we need is a relief pitcher. Put cuddy at third. Sign Punto for short. We almost won the division without a strong bullpen. Strengthen the bullpen. Unless Beltre is available for a reasonable amount.
Lala,
A healthy Cuddy? Does such a thing exist?
Oh I suppose he was healthy for his “great” 2006.
You know, the year he was batting between the two best hitters in the American League…
Cuddyer has had one good season, and for the rest of his career he’s been a completely below-average first round bust.
Michael Cuddyer never has been, and never will be anything more than a completely average all-around right fielder who couldn’t lay off an outside slider if his life depended on it.
Thrylos and Steve - well said
all you delmon haters - do your homework before you badmouth a great player on your favorite baseball team
dumb. We already went down this path with Big Papi, leave it to the Twins to give up on the big guy with the power potential.
Even if Gardy has zero faith in Delmon and believes that Delmon will never be anything better, he should NOT badmouth him to the media. Managers don’t have to share their strategy with the media.
If Young looks like the odd man out, it drops his trade value.
I can’t believe there are people who think Cuddyer is a “great player.” Oy. Break out the Kool-Aid . . .
Shaun made a comment earlier about the Twins BA w/ RISP. I’ve said it before, Shaun. Otherwise, I agree with you. If the Twins don’t upgrade offensively, the team will have a much different year in ‘09 than in ‘08.
..But Cuddyer is white!
Could Gardy be promoting Cuddy in an attempt to increase his value??? Think about it: The Twins wanting to keep a higher salaried player over a less expensive one with more upside????? Not in all of the years I’ve watched them.
Dump Delmon. Get what you can for him. He makes sliding catches like a goaltender….feet first. He can’t hit worth a lick, and swings at almost every pitch.
As ridiculous as Gardy’s comments…
…Paying Michael Cuddyer $7.7 million dollars next season. A CAREER .250 hitter and his best offensive season (.284/24/109…130k’s) will be three years ago this year.
—–
Delmon Young is by no means the next coming of Griffey Jr., but for crap’s sake I would take his “attitude” and “cover-your-eyes” defense for at least another season to see if he can continue to improve, rather than let him go for someone who has been in the league for seven years and has shown no signs of becoming better than average.
Trade Delmon Young for ANYTHING! Anything you can get for the stiff. That trade where we gave up our starting shortstop (Bartlett) and our best pitching prospect (Garza) for worthless Young and even more worthless Harris. Notice that the Rays won the pennant and the Twins didn’t.
Bill Smith is so inept he will trade Young for an Eddie Guardado and Mike Lamb types. Remember when the Twins got Liriano, Bonser and Nathan for Psycho Boy and the Giants then let him go to the Sox for nothing? What a great laugh we had over that. Imagine how TB fans will feel when they get Garza and Bartlett for Young and Harris and then watch Smith (Kevin McHale Jr.) turn around and swap the pair for a couple of has-beens and a never will be.
Gardy is not the problem. Young is not the problem. Bill Smith is the problem. The guy brought us Craig Monroe, Mike Lamb, Adam Everett, Livan the great and Everybody Hits Eddie Guardado and made the great swap for Santana and cost us a pennant last year, left Liriano on the farm long enough to cost us 3-4 games and the horrible Tampa Bay trade. The guy is a walking disaster.
If I’m not mistaken in the 2007 season Cuddyer missed quit a few games because he stumbled going around second and fell on his helmet and was out for quit sometime. When he came back he dang near did it again. This past season I think he had three separate injuries that kept him out for most of the season, one being to his finger. That injury had him sidelined the longest and he doesn’t even pitch. Young had over 90 RBI with the Rays and twenty plus homers and he is Twenty-three. Last year he was with a new team,playing a new position…and he is only Twenty-three! His D in left was shaky at best but he was playing on a sore foot at the end of the season. If Young moves on it will be one more ex-Twin putting up big numbers for another team. Blake two year deal or let the Dodgers get stuck….
If Randy seemed capable of putting up a better argument than a moldy potato, I’d respond to his comments. Alas, such is not the case. On to the next batch:
“Dump Delmon. Get what you can for him. He makes sliding catches like a goaltender….feet first. He can’t hit worth a lick, and swings at almost every pitch.”
And Cuddyer can hit worth a lick? Young posted an unspectacular OPS of .741 last year, but it sure dwarfed Cuddyer’s .699 mark. So let’s see, go with the overpaid veteran who can’t stay healthy and can’t really offer any more upside than being a moderately above average hitter… or go with the 23-year-old #1 Overall Draft Pick from 2003 whose ceiling is a mid-.800s OPS and a 20/20 campaign. Hmmm…
We better go with the crappy old veteran. Man, remember how bad that Justin Morneau hack was his first full year? The guy hit like .230… thank GOD we got rid of that hack and sold low on him.
Mnauss,
The funny thing is though, that these same people crying about how “bad” Delmon is will be the ones chastising Bill Smith in two years when Young actually develops into a good hitter and we’re stuck with a 31-year-old Cuddyer who can’t stay off the DL and can’t manage an OPS of .750…
“Imagine how TB fans will feel when they get Garza and Bartlett for Young and Harris…”
You say that as if Jason Bartlett resembles a good player in any way, shape, or form.
I get it. You rhymed “diddly” with “Fridley.”
Be sure to tell your teacher tomorrow. You might get a gold star.
Honestly, look at how pathetic you make yourself sound by immediately coming on here and just hashing out senseless insults. And why? Because you don’t like Delmon’s awkwardness in left field.
No one does. He should be in right field where that negative aspect of his game would be minimized.
Maybe I’ll go run around and call a bunch of strangers idiots to justify my point.
I don’t think anyone here’s going to disagree with who the one on this blog who doesn’t know anything is.
Wait, let me come up with your next clever comment for you!
“Yah no kidding Steve it’s YOU. Go hang yourself.”
Great Randy. Now you don’t have to even bother replying because I’ve done the work for you! Have a lovely night.
“I don’t think anyone here’s going to disagree with who the one on this blog who doesn’t know anything is.”
Ah in English next time. OK? And it’s whom btw.
Like I said, you still haven’t refuted any of my comments. Doesn’t listen to anybody but his dad, doesn’t accept coaching from Gardy or Vavra. HE IS TERRIBLE IN THE CLUBHOUSE.(See Carl Crawford et al) You have nothing and you know it. So keep spinning the subject on to something else and making classroom jokes (shows your maturity level). Just admit you have a schoolgirl crush on him and try a t-ball blog next time son, if that’s all you got. Oh yah, past your bedtime so you will not respond to this comment. Typical.
Carl Crawford, in his own right, is an egotistical jerk. Young had no clubhouse issues with the Twins. He caused no problems. The one knock on him was that he was more laid back than the rest of the team. That’s his personality, but it doesn’t make him bad in the clubhouse here. He might not fit in perfectly with this team, but there’s a big difference between that and being a “terrible clubhouse presence.”
Is it frustrating that he prefers his dad’s advice? Sure. Should we trade him because of it? No.
One of the reasons Matt Garza got traded in the first place was because of his personal relationships with Gardenhire and the Twins’ staff.
You can make all these outcries to trade Delmon because he doesn’t eat up everything the Twins feed him, but you can’t be bitter about trading Garza. He was dealt for some of the same reasons for which you’re advocating a trade of Young.
David Ortiz didn’t get along with the coaches either. Real glad we got rid of THAT no-talent jerk.
Unless you have a case like Manny where he refused to play and was faking injuries, how a player acts in the clubhouse shouldn’t facilitate a trade.
Delmon Young is more talented than Michael Cuddyer and offers more upside for a better 2009. He should be in the lineup. Is he going to be an All-Star? Doubtful. Hit 30 home runs? I wouldn’t bet on it. Win a Gold Glove? Absolutely not.
Can he put up a .300 season with 20 HRs and 20 SBs while bringing an arm that rivals and perhaps surpasses Cuddyer’s? Absolutely.
The only thing about any of this that bothers me is how Delmon talks to the media. The update with him saying this “doesn’t bother him at all” is maddening to me, but I think that’s more to do with his personality than a lack of caring. He’s clearly not one for expressing a lot of emotion, and that’s fine. I just wish he’d choose his words more wisely. From the rest of the article it sounds like he was implying that he won’t let it bother him because he can’t write his own name on the line-up card, but it would’ve been nice to see him say something about proving that he should be starting.
Either way, Young’s more talented than Cuddyer, and he should be our starting right fielder next year. Won’t happen with Gardenhire at the helm, but that’s beyond my control.
Feel free to make another condescending comment, Randy. Doesn’t seem like you have much better to do.
Oh, and here’s one to appease you:
I have a schoolgirl crush on Delmon Young. Anyone know a good T-Ball blog where I can discuss some good strategy?
And it actually is late. I should go to bed. I have to work in the morning.
Man, that must make me a real loser.
Carl Crawford…he has diarrhea of the mouth too.
I think it would be a mistake. Yet another player moving on and blossoming somewhere else. I would keep all four before I would trade Delmon.
Steve from Fridley…great posts!
Work for Twins…Delmon is well liked by his teammates and is a good clubhouse guy, don’t believe the crap Ruesse says. Young has stated publicly that he made alot of mistakes and he was concerned about being thought of this way when coming to MN. It is obvious to me-by things I have been told at work-that Delmon just wants to play ball, get along, and not respond to the inciderary crap that the media likes to stir up. Gardy’s motives for saying this? Who knows…but what should Young say in response? Curse Gardy? Cry? I think he just wants to be respectful and not say too much. I like Cuddyer, but he is past his prime, and has put up one good year. Young has incredible power to all fields, and I agree, would do better in RF. a .292 career avg for a cup of coffee in ‘06 and 2 seasons for someone who turned 23 in Sept is not someone we want to get rid of. Try looking at Puckett’s number’s in comparison to Young’s, except Puckett didn’t make the major leagues everyday player until age 24. Let’s not give up on Delmon Young. I predict we will regret it!
Another thing…I do believe that BS will try to unload Delmon. In BS’s interview on FSN, he states that the 5 Of’s (that’s includes Kubel) can be all kept, but “that is up to Gardy.” In other words, he is taking direction from Gardy on this!! I like Gardy, but trading Young and keeping Cuddy is utterly laughable. Cuddy is a great guy, but his only proven year is 2006 and he hit between the M&M boys for the majority of that season. Yeah, you might get some good pitches to swing at there! Not to mention Cuddy is past his prime at 30 years on opening day. Yikes…
randy,
“sy, was my statement directed towards you?”
No.
Were medschoolmatt’s statements directed towards you?
No.
Then, what is your point?
A couple of things to put Garza’s numbers in perspective:
He pitched half of his games in a hitter’s paradise, while the Dome was a pitcher’s paradise.
Garza faced the second highest OPS of opposing hitters in baseball. In other words, he faced BOS and NYY, and the Twins faced KC, DET, CLE.
I don’t blame them for dealing Garza (though I remain convinced it was a bad deal). But so far, I’d give Mr. Smith’s first year a D. They got no immediate help for the best pitcher in baseball, got little to no immediate help for Garza, and signed a bunch of stiffs. They only called up Casilla after the first three guys got hurt (not that you can blame them, Casilla was bad). Everett, Lamb, Monroe were busts. If you judge the contribution of the guys that BS added, and what they got for the guys they dealt, not a good offseason or even in season last year (and that isn’t counting keeping Livan in the rotation and keeping Liriano down).
The success of the team was largely (completely) based on the work of previous years.
It’s good to hear that Young’s not bugged by Gardy’s comments (which have really been blown out of proportion).
Everybody accuses him of being a headcase, but I don’t see it anymore.
If you remember, last year everybody thought Gardy was afraid to bench Young. Then when Gardy did, Young made a very reasonable response to it.
And now this response.
I don’t know what people expect Delmon Young to do to prove he’s turning a corner in his attitude, but his comments in the press in situations such as these have always been pretty reasonable.
If you judge the contribution of the guys that BS added, and what they got for the guys they dealt, not a good offseason or even in season last year
Let’s add it up (2008 win shares):
Left:
Santana (21)
Hunter (22)
Silva (-1)
Bartlett (13)
Garza (13)
Tyner (0)
Rodriguez (4)
Ford (0)
White (0)
Cali (0)
DePaula (0)
total: 72
Arrived:
Young (14)
Harris (11)
Blackburn (10)
Hernandez (3)
Span (16)
Gomez (13)
Perkins (7)
Lamb (5)
Monroe (4)
Everett (4)
Breslow (4)
Tolbert (2)
total: 93
The numbers indicate that Smith rearranged the team pretty well last off-season.
The whole point is that the Twins are looking to upgrade at 3B. What assets do they have that can be trade bait? Well, there’s Kubel, Cuddyer, and Young that come to mind…and a variety of other young players and pitchers. I would believe that the Twins would trade Cuddy or Kubel. I find it vary hard to believe that they would give up on a young, Delmon Young, or trade any more pitching. I was just as disappointed as the next Twins fan while I looked at Delmon’s stat line and watched his lead-footed defense, but I see the great potential at the plate and think that it is worth the growing pains in the long-run.
I don’t know, thrylos. Span was already in the organization and only got a lot of playing time because of Cuddy’s injury. Also, The fact that Smith didn’t keep a few bad players (Ford, Tyner) and instead signed a few other bad players (Monroe, Lamb, Livan) who he later dumped and one player (Everett) who only kept his place because of injuries doesn’t suggest to me that he “rearranged the team pretty well.” I still support both of “the trades,” but the FA signings were brutal.
saam,
in 2007 the Twins had no bench. They used the likes of Tyner/Rodriguez/Ford/White/Cirillo etc. I think that Lamb/Everett/Monroe was a big upgrade over that. Span (and Perkins and Blackburn) were in the organization but if Smith re-signed Ford and Tyler (or Silva), he would not have the opportunity to play in the majors in 2008
Steve, thanks for you response. Well I disagree that Carl Crawford is a malcontent, I guess we will always disagree on Delmon. I see an average future in him, and I have a feeling the Twins front office must have some of the same thoughts as well with the Rockies seemingly in the mix. I could also see the Padres in the mix if this Blake thing falls through. They are looking to cut salary and the rumor is they are looking for a cheap outfielder.
Were medschoolmatt’s statements directed towards you?
No.
Then, what is your point?
Umm… medschoolmatt’s comment was directed at all delmon young haters, which I am one. So you not only answered your own question wrong toilet boy, you continue to prove you bud in where you don’t belong. Like I said before… run along toilet boy.
thrylos, I understand what you are saying, but getting rid of Jason Tyner is hardly rocket science. (And I think the Twins would have resigned Silva had he not wanted too much money.) I just don’t give Smith much credit for signing players that have been released due to poor performance.
BS did not add Perkins or Blackburn. They were in the system and called up when no other starters were available. I’m talking about moves smith made, not natural progression of talent. I’m pretty sure you knew that when you posted your response, though. I could type that 0 degrees feels cold when you stand outside naked and you’d disagree with me.
Heck, for the fun of it, let’s look at one “trade” using your stats:
Santana+Tyner = 21
Gomez + Hernandez = 16
heck, if he had stood pat on Span (again, you are giving him credit here, not me) and kept santana:
santana+Span=37
Gomez+Hernanez+blackbur+perkins=33 (not that you could play all of them, but heck, I’ll give them all to you).
mike,
you have to look collectively…
also, if santana and silva were with the team, perkins and blackburn would have been in rochester. smith did not get them in the organization, but his moves gave them the opportunity to play.
Way late to the party on this story….but I think Gardy misspoke.
If by “ideal” outfield, Gardy means that Michael Cuddyer would be circa 2006 Michael Cuddyer, then yes, Michael Cuddyer should be a starter.
But that’s not what we have. What we have is unhealty, fat contract Michael Cuddyer.
I believe that if the Twins go into 2009 with Cuddy as their right fielder, that plan will soon change (as it did in 2008). Injury might not be the reason this time, it’ll probably have more to do with lack of production.
But the contract says he’ll play.
Thus, we have a battle for the outfield spots…one that probably won’t resolve itself until mid-May. These are the battles that, as a Lew Ford fan, can be lots of fun.
When the dust settles, I predict the outfield will be that of Young, Go-go, and Span. That leaves Kubel, Cuddy, and ‘insert Twins initial answer at 3B here’ to fight it out for the DH and 3B job. 3B could easily end up going to Cuddy.
So what gives? It’s simple: Denard, D Young, and Go-go are all battling for a big payday. Cuddy got his. If the Twins part ways with either Go-go or D Young, it will come back to bite them.
Carl Crawford is an egotistical jerk who will never live up to the ridiculous amount of talent he has because he’s too busy looking in the mirror and badmouthing his teammates. He needs to focus on the game, not the media.
Crawford trashed Delmon and Elijah Dukes by name as soon as they were out of the clubhouse and couldn’t wait to tell the media how great the Rays’ locker room was with them gone.
I don’t care if they’re not your teammates anymore. That’s an immature, classless, conceited move by an arrogant jerk who can’t stand not being the center of attention. Crawford is one of the most talented guys in the game, but he’ll never live up to it, and that’s a shame for Rays fans.
As for Smith getting a D, he signed Morneau long-term to a great contract, made a trade that I still think can benefit the Twins if they’re not stupid and keep Young around, and made the choice to ditch Silva.
I don’t think anyone could have predicted how bad Lamb would be, and if you say you did, I just flat out don’t believe you.
The guy was a career .289 hitter coming into 2008, and had averaged about 14 HRs through 370 plate appearances per season (those numbers are all off the top of my head because I’m in a hurry, but I’ve looked them up before, so they’re close, but not entirely accurate. Cut me a bit of slack :))
There’s no way anyone could predict Lamb’s epic failure. Everett, sure, expected. Craig Monroe was a decent buy-low candidate. He’d only had one bad year and wasn’t injured, so it was reasonable to assume he could rebound.
The Livan signing was garbage, I agree.
Overall, I don’t think Smith made bad moves in signing Monroe and Lamb. I think they were actually pretty sound moves that didn’t pay off, and it made him look bad.
Overall, between his extension for Morneau, the Delmon trade (which I still like), and yes, even the signings of Monroe and Lamb, I think he made some good moves. Clearly they didn’t all work out, but at the time, they seemed a hell of a lot better than Terry Ryan bringing in Juan Castro, Tony Batista, Ruben Sierra, Sidney Ponson, and Ramon Ortiz.
His signings of Everett and Hernandez were terrible, and he didn’t have much choice with Santana. The Red Sox were never that seriously in it, they just wanted to drive up New York’s price.
I’d give Smith a C+ for his first year. He cut the dead weight in Silva and made some decent moves. They didn’t work out. The blame can’t necessarily be placed on him in all cases. Did anyone here really predict Lamb would hit .230 with ONE home run?
Steve (from Fridley),
the uber-irony is that both Dukes (.264/.386/.478; 13HR for those who care) and Young (.290/.336/.405; 10 HR) outperformed Crawford (.273/.319/.400; 8 HR) last year…
I would not be afraid to go into the season with Cuddyer, Gomez, Span in the outfield with DY and Kubel at the dh spot with both giving the 3 best defensive guys a break. Injuries happen. Throw Blake in at 3b and we have depth to play with OR trade for bullpen help, which is our key need. Buscher, Harris, or one of the outfielders wouldn’t be a bad trade group.
Gardenhire is a genius! Publicly claiming he prefers Cuddy to Young will inflate his trade value. Pure genius! I’m just not sure anyone is going to buy it. But it’s worth a shot. I would not mind it if they traded Cuddy, Bonser, and a prospect for Milwaukee’s SS Hardy. That would get us a more reliable right handed bat, and allow Young to develop. I do, however, wonder why Gardy doesn’t move Young to RF, and Span to LF. Signing Blake at 3B would give the kids in the system time to work their way to the bigs without being rushed.
medschoolmatt, I used to scream at the TV whenever TK sent Dick Such to the mound to talk to a pitcher in trouble. Such had to be the worst coach in the league, but he was Kelly’s pinochle partner. I believe that Gardy learned from Kelly. Little Nicky will always have job as long as Gardy is around. We could (and should) fix that by getting a real manager.
Wow! We fans are all on the same page emphatically. In my opinion, I think Gardy does have a bad history of playing favorites and what a foolish blunder for Gardy to make public his personal woes he has with Delmon. Matt Garza, I love that kid. Gardy could not handle him and forced that trade and now he may do it with his comments over Delmon Young. Del is going to be a great player, but more importantly one thing a great Coach doesn’t do is air dirty laundry for rapacious reporters and Gardy does this frequently. A coach must build team unity and going public erodes trust and kills team unity. Right now it is becoming apparent to me that there are too many instances now where Gardy voices his opinions in the paper when he cannot manage a talented player’s attitudes and behaviors. Past players I think off the top of my head are Lohse, Romero, and most recently Matt Garza. We Twins fans were lucky that a young Johann got over his anger over Gardy’s choice to go with Kenny Rogers in 2002 or Jo wouldn’t have had all those K’s in a Twin’s uniform. I digress. Gardy is obviously creating dissension among current players and polarizing other players to be his minions. This does not build team unity and is becoming an obvious problem and eventual distraction. Current players like Alexi, Harris, and Young are very good young players Gardy has publicly chastised. These guys want to play and it motivates them for a while, but Gardy is angering them, and not building good relations. Gardy can’t continue to build relationships this way. Perhaps, there is much going on inside the clubhouse we don’t know and it could be that Del’s a bit too petulant, but a good coach knows how to build relationships before he can teach and showing the cards now almost forces another trade again. I miss Garza supremely, but I also like Del’s youth, aggressiveness, and upside so much, I could not think of parting with him. I have huge problems with streaky Cuddyer. It is time for damage control…
I can’t believe people are saying Delmon can’t hit..
In my mind .290 with and .336 OBP and 10 HRs has to be at least league average for a corner outfielder in the AL.
They couldn’t trade Young and get anything close to full value before Gardy ran his dumb mouth.. now what could they get in return? Huston Street if they’re lucky?! A player who - best possible outcome - gives you 70 innings of quality work a year?! Sweet Jesus if that trade happens I don’t think I can watch this team anymore.. the anger thinking about it would drive me insane.
If Delmon does get traded who’s the bigger fool though? Gardy for ruining whatever value Delmon had or Bill Smith for trading him anyway?
Delmon has more trade value and is awful in the field. Last year he cost us at least 3 games by himself. His power never showed and his attitude seemed to show he either did not care or was unwilling to accept coaching.
Delmone is plain bad. Do the math: 575 at bats, 10 HR, 105 k’s, and only 35 walks. For those who don’t know baseball, that stinks. He won’t bunt, won’t listen, does not care about the team. I’ll be happy to see him go for free.
The Twins should sign Pedro Martinez and then trade one of our young starters for Adrian Beltran.
delmon young trade rumors going strong. I still think he is out of here.
Steve, elijah dukes beat his girlfriend, delmon young bashed and umpire with a bat. I will take Crawford everyday of the week compared to those 2. next…
I am telling you, if Cuddyer is in the lineup in 2009, the Twins will not win the division. You can take that to the bank. If the Twins are going to win the division, they need to trade Cuddyer or otherwise get him off the roster.
I can’t imagine anyone taking the Twins hypothetical acquisition of players seriously. The Twins always put on a big B.S. show for the fans, but nothing of ever gets done. The organization is full of hot air for the hot stove, but ownership and management lack a serious committment to winning the division. Take note: the Twins have held onto sub-par and over-rated players like Punto and Cuddyer for years and it has only cost them in the standings. The Twins wind bag attempt to obtain Adrian Beltre last seaons was an example of their B.S. tactics put on to trick the fans into believing they are serious about a championship.
I think the Twins 2009 outlook is as follows: The organization will keep Punto to use as a relief pitcher in 2009. Cuddyer will be kept on the roster to save money and the organization will hype his popularity and worth, even through it will bring the team weakness in the long run. Mauer will ask to sit out alot more games whenever he doesn’t feel like playing. Morneau will want to be traded before too long because the team will not make a serious attempt to acquire top notch players to help the team win a championship. Gardenhire will continue to gain weight and do more sitting than standing in the dugout. Several of the Twins highly rated starting pitchers will develope arm problems due to the fact that they are required to pitch the equivalent of a full game before they even start the game.
keep boof in the bullpen. trade cuddy, blackburn for beltre. keep young around another year,(watch his numbers grow). and then get back to me.
So all the Casey Blake talk was nothing more than wasted trees (well, thanks to the internet, we’re saving some trees).
What a shocker.
Howard…can you do me a favor…you’re like the leader of the Twins fans, so to speak, can you put a ’stop payment’ order on any and all free agent talk for the rest of the winter…particularly those involving players that will cost more than $2 million per year (pssst, Doug Mientkiewicz is still available)?
Seriously, it’s so tiring. We bring up Hank Blalock, we get Tony Bautista…we bring up Miguel Cabrera, we get Mike Lamb (what is Milwaukee thinking there, by the way…Reusse said it best…is that a practical joke?). You get the point.
I know it’s tough for a journalist to advocate a policy which includes a chilling effect….but please, NO MORE FREE AGENT SPECULATION. Let’s talk about which AAA player will have the biggest impact…that’s where it’s at for this franchise.
No more free agent speculation? What the heck are we supposed to do between now and Spring Training?
And as for what Milwaukee is thinking, it’s pretty simple. They get to take a flyer on Lamb for the Major League minimum because they know the Twins have to pick up the difference between $3 million and what they pay him in 2009. Not much risk on their part.
don’t worry cuddy will get another booboo on his finger and Young will take his job.
