How does this look to you (Joe Crede addition edition)?
Posted on February 21st, 2009 – 9:22 AMBy Howard
How’s this look for Opening Day?
Span, lf; Casilla, 2b; Mauer, c; Morneau, 1b; Young, rf; Kubel, dh; Crede, 3b; Punto or Harris, ss; Gomez, cf. (Baker, p)
I like that Gardy is talking about starting the season with 11 pitchers, because that would make my April 6-at-the-Dome bench: Cuddyer, Buscher, Redmond, Harris/Punto, Tolbert/Macri.
There may not be much drama right now about the roster, save for the unsettled bullpen, but I like the battle for the outfield starting spot between Cuddyer and Young, with Gomez understanding that Young-Span-Cuddyer looks pretty good if he isn’t careful.
And I want to see a Harris v. Punto battle at shortstop. Smack on Punto all you want, but his revised zone rating among shortstops who played at least 500 innings at the position was the highest in the American League. Harris was near the bottom, although I guess he can always tell the grandkids that he was better than little David Eckstein. Harris, though, can make me happy with the way he swings a bat and doesn’t dive into first base.
The choice is about using your options and riding what’s working, which puts a bit more pressure on the manager.
(Folks, I posted this as a comment below, but there are so many interesting comments that folks could miss it. I hope it helps explain my position on the batting order: On the fifth spot in the order issue, keep in mind that, for all of his power, Crede’s career offensive numbers are .257 BA/.306 OBP/.447 slugging. His career best OBP is .323. Delmon’s career numbers are .292/.326/.413, with .290/.336/.405 in ‘08 and the potential for more upside. This isn’t to diminish Crede. It’s a good move. But keep it real in terms of where he goes in the lineup.)
And if the Twins are going to be able to make a deal for reliever Juan Cruz, which looks to be an interesting challenge….
Let’s just start the season now.
166 Responses to "How does this look to you (Joe Crede addition edition)?"
I am excited about our line-up offensively. We have a nice balance of speed, power, and batting average.
Defensively, this line-up is solid.
Morneau will see a few more pitches to hit with Crede batting behind him.
We got some excitement finally!
I love this acquisition! If the Twins can get Cruz too, I might go into cardiac arrest. Just when you thought the Twins organization would stand pat…
My guess is the opening day lineup will be:
Span - LF
Casilla - 2B
Mauer - C (assuming he gets healthy)
Morneau - 1B
Cuddyer - RF
Kubel - DH
Crede - 3B
Punto - SS
Gomez - CF
I think Delmon and Span will rotate depending on if it’s a righty or lefty on the mound. Cuddy will be the everyday RF IMHO.
This is a good thing. Were good at every position and we have a good back-up at every position. Whole new ball game.
Now we’ll see how Gardy and the M&M boys react to being the hunted top dogs. Hope Crede is actually healthy. I know that pinched nerves can be repaired through surgery but I don’t know the success rate. I know that Jim Thome has struggled with a similar injury and had post-surgery success.
Some one stick a fork in me! I’m on my way to Arizona’s bench!
Delmon needs to be in the lineup.
It is so refreshing to be talking about what appears to be great Twins move. No Sierras, Batistas, Lambs, or Livans(although he did win 10)
Howard,
I like that your lineup has Young in it. The only thing that may change is Young and Crede switching around but if Young hits well then I love it. Let Harris back up Casilla, Crede, and Punto. If Gardy wanted to now he could bat an all right handed lineup against tough lefties using Redmond at catcher and Cuddyer at first. I got to believe that Tolbert will be the odd man out as I am sure Buscher will have to spell Crede on days we are against tough right handed pitchers. Now lets get Cruz for a Humber-Machado deal or something similar!
Hightower: Span won’t be rotated, because right now he’s the best leadoff guy the Twins have.
Young/Cuddyer is the most likely rotation. With Young also probably getting some ABs at DH in place of Kubel.
Away from home but monitoring the situation,this is potentially great news.Bill Smith seems to have won this round with uber agent Boras.I am waiting to see if the Crede deal includes an optionon ‘10.If the Twins ae somehow are able to land Cruz as well, Mr. Smiths off season grade goes up even further.
Howard I like your thinking on the roster.I would think there could be a strong possibility of a Young, Span/Gomez platoon,Cuddyear outfield.It’s what I would like to see anyway.
And I’m equally satisfied that the manager is considering an 11 man staff.A bench consisting of Buscher,Harris,whomever is playing in the outfield that day,Reddog,and Tolbert gives the Twins a quality bench.If the Twins are able to land Cruz as well, it helps to put the bullpen back in order.
Morneau 4th, Crede 5th baby!!
Gardy has hinted about 11 pitchers before and while ideal it will never happen. 5 starters and Nathan, that leaves room for 5. Crain, Guerrier, Bonser, Breslow, and Majeres. OK, so now we have to figure out what to do with Ayala, Dickey, Jones, and Cruz(?). I guarantee they go with 12!!!!!!!
I think they should head into the season with the assumption that Cuddyer, Span, Young and Gomez will get equal time. That would give each of them each about 550 plate appearances, but over the course of the season someone will probably get hurt or just not produce as well as expected. You can’t relegate Cuddyer to the bench every day.
Cuddyer is a cherished commidity in the eyes of Twin’s management and their is no way he rides the pine. He can’t run like Gomez but he is twice the hitter. My guess is Delmon platoons in left and right and shares some of the DH duties. At best. No matter what Gardy says he is no fan of selfish players like Young. Even if he comes out and hits some 20 bombs, Delmon’s days here are numbered and he is too stubborn (and arrogant) to win back the Twin’s brainstrust.
my gut says crede in the 5 hole to help out Morneau.
saw that hudson signed for under $4 million. Twins should have gone after him and rotated casilla to short and never resigned punto. Add Hudson, and that would be a kick ass lineup!
I think the Twins lined up these shocking moves to coordinate with their big hour-long spring training preview on MLB Network tonight at 7!
I’m very excited about Crede and Cruz, though I’m not sure who would be the odd man out in the bullpen. Boof and Humber would both be left off the roster, right?
Having Buscher and Harris on the bench gives the Twins a ton of depth on the bench too. All-around I’d be very happy with this roster.
The only way Gardy starts with 11 Pitchers is if Boof is on the DL, and maybe Gardy knows more than us on that front, but if the Cruz deal goes through even without Boof 11 is a hard number to get to.
Howard your starting lineup looks perfect 
I’d like to see if they can sign someone like Garciaparra for a bat of the bench and send Buscher to AAA. Also Macri will probably be gone when Crede will be added.
I see a Tolbert/Tolleson/Plouffe/Machado/Hughes battle for the last utility spot
My thought….Cuddy will play RF everyday…Young/Gomez will battle for time with Young getting some DH time…Gomez better start out strong….
Thanks Glanzer, I knew I was forgetting someone in the pitching mix and Humber is that guy, I hope Gardy doesn’t forget him as easily.
I think Boof will start on the DL, if nothing else because then he can go on a “rehab assignment” in AAA while we sort out the bullpen situation in the bigs. Allows us to get a longer look at several of the parts.
If the Twins work out a deal witthe D-Backs for Cruz it stands to reason a relief pitcher would be included in the deal.Guerrier is coming off a terrible year and is now over payed IMO.Bonser has shown no ability to adjust and Cruz represents the power arm the Twins hoped for in Boof.Dickey and jones aren’t going to figure into the Twins plans unless alot goes wrong.
The five starters and a bullpen of Crain,Breslow,Majeres,Ayala,Cruz,and Nathan looks pretty darned good to me,and adds up to 11!
I see this lineup happening.
LF -Span
2B-Casilla
C -Mauer
1B-Morneau
3B-Crede
DH-Kubel
RF- Cuddyer
SS- Punto
CF- Gomez
I do want DY in there but I just can’t see it right now. Have do believe Gardy will put Cuddy in.
Thyros98: You want to add Nomar instead of a 12th pitcher? As if the whole Tolleson/Plouffe/Machado/Hughes thing didn’t already prove that you’re not fully awake this morning. Thyros, you usually have pretty good ideas, but you do realize that if Crede is signed the Twins are done adding position players for the year.This is true regardless of the Cruz situation.
Pro From Dover: I can’t argue with a thing you said except to add that Humber makes 12 unless you want to throw himm away which I don’t think the Twins want to do in light of the Santana trade.
Check LaVelle’s blog.
You want to add Nomar instead of a 12th pitcher?
no. I want to add Nomar instead of Buscher.
Tolleson/Plouffe/Machado/Hughes thing didn’t already prove that you’re not fully awake this morning
I might not be fully awake, but I think that Tolbert will have to win a spot this season.
who would you rather have PH for Punto bottom of the 9th 2 outs one run down men on 2nd and 3rd: Tolbert, Buscher or Nomar? You know my answer.
Royster i uderstand were you are coming from but the if Crede and Cruz become a reality the Twins need to make room on the 40 man roster.with Humber and Bonser out options they are both candidates for trade.If Boofs injury is serious he could end up on the DL I suppose.But spinning Humber as part of the Cruz trade would actually mean the Twins got more for their money in the Santana deal.
I think you will see Crede doing some DH stints to give his back a rest from the hard Dome surface…especially if Kubel doesn’t get the job done. He was alright last year, but nothing special as far as DH goes. Denard Span will NOT be rotated. He is too valuable as the leadoff man, and showed what he can do….Gomez would be the odd man out on those days, with Young in left, Cuddy in right and Span in center. This however all comes down to how Cuddy and Young perform.
All,
LaVelle’s blog has the signing details.
On the fifth spot in the order issue, keep in mind that, for all of his power, Crede’s career offensive numbers are .257 BA/.306 OBP/.447 slugging. His career best OBP is .323.
Delmon’s career numbers are .292/.326/.413 (with .290/.336/.405 in ‘08 and the potential for more upside.)
This isn’t to diminish Crede. It’s a good move. But keep it real in terms of where he goes in the lineup.
$2.5 million plus incentives up to $7 million? That’s a lot different than the $7-to-$11 we were hearing about.
One more stat: 82 more home (regular season) games ’til Crede plays on grass.
And I go back to the last White Sox’ castoff who was supposed to have back problems making him available to another team…how did Magglio Ordonez work out that next year (and following years) for the Tigers, huh? We can only hope!
98
there are a lot of guys we’d all rather see pinch hit for Punto,but the bench would also include whoever is the fourth OF and,depending on the situation, Kubel. Nomar isn’t coming to the Twins.If the Twins get Cred and cruz they are done adding to the roster.I realize you dispise Buscher but I would think that with Gardy even hinting about an 11 man staff it’s his way of saying he wants Buscher on his team.
The outfield is still my concern. Span does appear to be the best leadoff hitter in the lineup, so I figure he has to be in there. Although Young seemed a bit undisciplined at the plate last year, he finished with a .290 BA and showed signs of pop in his bat. How can you leave a guy with that much potential out of your lineup? That leaves Cuddyer vs. Gomez. Span can play CF and has a much better BA and OBP. He can’t run like Gomez…but it isn’t that big of dropoff. IMO, Young in left, Span in center, Cuddyer in right. That being said, I hope Gomez can figure things out at the plate because he does make our outfield a lot smaller, defensively, if he’s in there.
Although it’s doubtful, what if the Twins slotted Mauer second, ala the Padres back in the day with Tony Gwynn? Something like:
1. Span CF
2. Mauer C
3. Young LF
4. Morneau 1B
5. Crede 3B
6. Kubel DH
7. Cuddyer RF
8. Punto SS
9. Casilla 2B
Granted, this lineup doesn’t feature Gomez, but Span’s a better player at this stage in their respective careers and Gomez strengthens an already solid bench (pinch runner, defensive replacement, etc.). Also, this lineup offers a nice blend of righties and lefties, with HR potential from Nos. 2-7.
Doubtful it will happen, but it’s fun to juggle the pieces a bit.
That is all.
There are still too many questions about the starting outfield. Span almost has to be in there with his lead off ability…but then what? Gomez could be sent to AAA to fine tune things but eventually would be called back up. Young has been said to improved his swing, and we all knnow what a healthy Cuddyer can do with some All Star support in the lineup. This is going to be interesting.
I just don’t see Gardy leaving Cuddyer out of the lineup. I think Span, Young and Gomez will fight it out, but Gardy might just rotate them. What about Cuddyer playing DH on some days? Cuddyer is signed to a 3 year $23 million contract, with 4th year option. I would want to play a $23 million player.
I would also like to give Young another shot, given his solid second half last year. Maybe get his home run numbers between 15-20. I’m not quite sold on Span yet, and hopefully Gomez can calm down at the plate. I think its great to have too many outfielders, because one struggles, Gardy has other options.
If the Twins pick up Cruz, they will have had their best off season in a long time. Cruz is a mirror image of the 2006-2007 Pat Neshek stats wise. That would take the pressure off Gurrier and Crain, who I think can still be effective.
My prediction, and hope, is that the outfield competition will be good for all four players. The Strib’s story about how Casilla’s demotion served as a positive wake-up call for him is kind-of the template:
–Cuddy’s best year came when he had something to prove, when he had a reason to worry about his starting position.
–Span was super bummed about not making the team out of ST last year, and he used turned that into motivation to excel when he did get called up.
–And I’m hopeful that both Delmon and Gomez, after being here a year, will begin to understand that a demotion by the Twins isn’t a slap in the face or a personal slight, but is most often done in the best interests of the player. Look at Cuddy, Span, Casilla, Baker, Slowey, or even guys like Torii. They all came up and went back down before they fully reached their potential.
Gomez and Young were the Mauer’s of their prior team’s farm system, and thus (I think) were used to things being handed to them. Problem is, they don’t have Mauer’s talent and need to work harder to maximize their abilities. Competing against each other as teammates–that is, understanding that it’s about the team and not the Shaddy McCants “I’m going to get mine and prove everyone wrong”–will only make them better. If not, it will show that they simply don’t have the makeup to be a Twin.
Having said all that, I hope Gardenhire doesn’t mess with it more than he needs to by annointing his guys while criticizing others. Although, hasn’t Gleeman pointed out that Gardy’s only hard on the guys who have more to give, and easy on the ones who have reached their ceiling (hard on Morneau early on, easy on Garrett Jones, etc.)?
ps–just saw some of the recent comments. I dig moving Mauer into the 2 hole in the lineup, and taking a flier on Delmon at third. Surrounded by Mauer and Morneau, he would get ample pitches to swing at (if he could just learn to take a couple). I just think that if you were to put Mauer second, Young has as much ability and more potential upside as a #3 hitter as anyone else on the roster, so why not try it? You could always move Crede there as well, if Young didn’t work out.
This way you could also have the Piranhas II at the bottom of the order.
1 Span LF
2 Casilla 2B
3 Mauer C
4 Cuddyer RF
5 Morneau 1B
6 Crede 3B
7 Kubel DH
8 Punto SS
9 Gomez CF
I know its been a year since Cuddyer was healthy but have we forgotten he was a solid rbi guy in the clean-up spot for 2 years? This way Morneau provides support for Cuddyer and Crede support for Morneau. Not too mention its the best way to go for lefty righty mathups. Also I think Span is more fit for left field because theres more ground to cover out there at the metrodome, not to mention Cuddyer is a natural Right fielded with a cannon for an arm.
No way Gardy plays Harris at short more than 10 times in 2009. He’ll give up two more hits than he creates.
[…] A Fan’s View – […]
Your projected order is as good as any other guess at this point, Howard. I’ll take it. Could it be Cuddyer instead of Young? Yep. But would that really matter? Pencil in whichever of them is playing the best when camp breaks.
You’ve got 5 guys for four positions (3 OF + DH). There’s plenty of PAs to go around for that group and they’ll all get plenty of opportunities to step up. And if someone gets hurt, they’ll be glad they’ve got the ’spare part’.
One thing I would do differently than you did… and differently than what Gardy’s likely to do… is move Casilla down to the bottom and slide Mauer up to #2. I’ve always thought he’s a perfect #2 hitter and with Crede and (hopefully) a productive Cuddyer and/or Young available, it’s an option the Twins didn’t really have last year.
It’s a nice lineup. Not super scary, I’d think, at this point. It’s all on Young, Gomez, Span and Casilla to improve at this point. Mauer and Morneau and Punto are pretty much givens (for good or ill). Cuddy’s best year wasn’t that good a year, and he’s not exactly a spring chicken. Kubel’s gonna hit about what he hit last year, maybe a little better. That leaves it up to two guys that they traded very good to great starting pitchers for, and two guys that looked like underachievers in the minors for some time. The future of this roster (offensively) hinges on those four (if two of them become/stay even close to league median in OPS, this team will score runs again).
This would be my guess
1. Span LF
2. Casilla 2B
3. Mauer C
4. Morneau 1B
5. Crede 3B
6. Kubel DH
7. Cuddyer RF
8. Punto SS
9. Gomez CF
Plenty of power and even more speed to boot. I can see Young starting out in the 8th spot of the order if he wins the final OF spot. Gardy loves Cuddy and Punto, so you gotta know they’re automatically in there.
With Gomez in center field, neither right or left has “too much ground to cover”.
Gardy only has a serious problem deciding which three outfielders to go with if all four of them are smacking the cover off the ball. However, I think Gardy will have less patience this year with Gomez and Span with this being their second seasons in the bigs.
i truly believe that if all guys stay healthy and play well, you will see a pretty steady rotation of cuddy, young, gomez,span and kubel…kubel will not play the field but span will fill in cf when gomez sits, etc..they will all get plenty of at bats and of course a hot hand will always be in the lineup…along with that you may see crede in the dh spot from time to time, but i prefer to just stay with the outfield rotation–when crede sits, then buscher gets at bats…this team is very well put together with a great mix of players that are so flexible that gardy has alot of options and all players will get to play…that makes for great chemistry and as long as the pitching holds up (please grab cruz)and guys stay reasonably healthy-(no long dl stints, etc) this team can go all the way if things go right ………should be fun, and wish it started today for real….
You could possibly move Mauer up to no. 2 in the order but would Morneau be cool with batting 3rd? Crede doesn’t hit for average well enough to be higher than 4th or 5th. Delmon would maybe be good in the 3 spot, but if he isn’t going to be in the lineup everyday, who else would hit 3rd? Cuddyer? Kubel? What you don’t want to do is move Morneau between 3 and cleanup depending on who is in the lineup. Morneau is going to play everyday and he will hit at the same spot in the lineup.
mj1, I see Span moving from CF to RF to LF in the rotation. Gomez only in CF, Cuddyer only in RF, Delmon only in LF.
WJ,
Gardenhire said last year that “We’re a better team with Carlos out there.”
For what it’s worth.
Thrylos,
I read what you said about the metrics you use in figuring team wins/losses. And no, it wasn’t too much information. I found it interesting that individual improvement is also factored in.
The Twins are well stocked with players that have a ton of room to get better. And last years team was arguably darn good.
One intangible to ponder about the Crede signing: How much does it allow a pitcher to relax, knowing he has that kind of defense playing third?
I would like to see the everyday lineup being Young in right, Span in left, and Gomez in center. Cuddyer can split time DHing against left handers plus he will probably be used to back up Morneau. The outfield as it sits will rotate guys who have the hot hand so if Delmon fails then Cuddyer will get the bulk of the playing time and vice versa.
span / cuddyer rf
casilla / harris 2b
mauer / redmond c
morneau / buscher / cuddyer 1b
crede/ buscher 3b
kubel/ cuddyer dh
young/ lf
punto/ harris ss
gomez/ span cf
and if gardy is lucky enough to go with only 11 pitchers, add tolbert to the mix unless mauer is weak and a 3rd catcher as morales is needed–this is the way i see this working out and i hope its enough - it seems as stout a lineup as the twins have put out to open a season in a long time….lets hope
That should read: “WIth his range, he’ll give up two hits for every extra hit he creates over Punto.”
Right now I would hate to be an opposing pitcher looking at the batting order.
1.Span-LF
2.Casilla-2b
3.Mauer-C
4.Morneau-1b
5.Crede-3b
6.Cuddyer-RF
7.Kubel-DH
8.Punto-SS
9.Gomez-CF
Now isn’t this exciting for a change.
the next thing to think about is the twins staff in that if they all, and thats a reach sometimes to say all, but lets hope with the added year of experience they can almost all go just that extra 2-3 outs a game this year–just that would be such a break for the bullpen and would probably allow (providing they have cruz) to easily get along with 11 pitchers…the big 5 and nathan, crain, breslow, mijares, ayala, cruz— i know alot of people are down on guerrier but i always thought he was a pretty good bulldog, but was way overworked-under normal rotations he did well and would be missed imho
One intangible to ponder about the Crede signing: How much does it allow a pitcher to relax, knowing he has that kind of defense playing third?
Let me put it this way: Blackie was probably popping champagnes last night when he found out that Buscher will be replaced by Crede…
(sinkerball pitchers -Blackie, Ayala, Guerrier- will be much happy…)
Howard,
as there is no option year (from what has been reported) it is doubtful that Crede will see Target Field as a Twin…
Autumn has it right, put Mauer in the 2 hole! Bring Gomez off the bench.
1. Span CF
2. Mauer C
3. Young LF
4. Morneau 1B
5. Crede 3B
6. Kubel DH
7. Cuddyer RF
8. Punto SS
9. Casilla 2B
Right now if we could get Cruz we would probably and hopefully see one of the most energetic seasons since the Magic year.
Looking at this line up, I don’t see the Twins losing a single game this year but that is what I have thought looking at every Twins opening day line up since 1961!
Crede is a great low-risk signing. Bring on Cruz, too. I totally agree with your analysis of Punto v Harris. Brendan “all I hit is doubles” Harris should open at SS.
WJ, I’d have no problem with Morneau hitting 3rd. Old School theory is that you slot your best hitter in the 3-spot. I don’t know, statistically, how many additional PAs you get by hitting one spot higher in the order over the course of 162 games, but whatever it is, getting Doc a few more cuts can’t be a bad thing.
On the other hand, if one of the RH bats comes out of ST with a hot bat, it wouldn’t be terrible to have the righty in between M1 and M2 in the order, either.
I do agree that you don’t yank him up and down, you put him somewhere and leave him there every day.
Casilla is the IDEAL #2 hitter, why move him down to 9?
only thing i dont like about mauer hitting 2nd is that i have always believed you need a great bunter in the 2 hole…not that mauer cant bunt, but thats not what you want mauer up there to do….
We already have the M & M boys, now if we add Cruz to Crede, Casilla and Cuddyer, we’ll have a C n C machine!!!
Our pitching staff has to be thrilled with the fact that we added not only a power guy but a guy that can play consistant, good third base. This will be a good year
mj, you need someone in the 2 hole who can advance runners. That can be done by ways other than bunting. In fact, if you have a good contact hitter, you can hit and run instead of bunt much of the time. That gives you a shot at a base hit over and above making sure the runner advances.
Not to mention, I seem to recall Mauer laying down a lot of bunts from his 3-spot… which is not what you really want your 3 hitter doing.
Right now we can keep arguing batting orders for hours but I am pretty sure that it will be almost identical to last season. Gardy tends to do what works.
m, this isn’t an argument. It’s a discussion of ideas.
When someone starts attacking you personally for having different ideas, we’ve got an argument.
But stick around… it generally doesn’t take long around here to deteriorate to that level.
Anyone who thinks Span will be out of this lineup is crazy. He is everything the Twins HOPE Gomez will be. A great contact hitter who drives the ball, smart on the base paths, has some power and is an intense player. I love this guy. AND I love Joe Crede. Will I soon love Juan Cruz?
1.Span
2.Casilla
3.Mauer
4.Morneau
5.Young
6.Kubel
7.Crede
8.Punto
9.Gomez
wise words from jc: “this isn’t an argument. It’s a discussion of ideas.”
for OF i think would be Cuddy in right
Span in left gomez in center and young going in right whenever cuddy and gomez are given a break. Span would just go wherever the vacancy would appear
Well. Span wasn’t brought to Minnesota to sit on the bench. He played darn near every game last year when healthy. Sitting on the bench for Span would have been last year. I see Span eventually being able to get on base, steal bases, and hitting HR’s. That will be a deadly combination.
I think DY, Kubel and Cuddyer will rotate in the OF and DH until one wins the job. Cuddyer has more to prove than DY. Cuddyer is coming off the injury not DY. Once DY starts hitting for power (age 23) we won’t be having this conversation.
Overall, we can all agree this a position the Twins have not been in for a long time and that is the position of being very flexible with their lineup.
Not knowing who has improved only leaves us to speculate on the lineup. At face value, and given what last year’s stats say, I guess I would put Crede in the 5 hole. SOOOOO many possibilities.
JimCrikket
i’m not saying were arguing per say. I’m saying that there are so many options out there right now. thats all.
You know what a great discussion of ideas would be. Who will be shipped out if we trade for Cruz
the more and more I think about it, Delmon Young is probably the best option the Twins have for the #2 hole…
Young, with his improving OBP could be excellent in the 2 hole. He has better speed than most think and with Span in front of him there shouldn’t be too many double plays. Also, he may start taking the first pitch if they force him to take it because Span is stealing second.:)
People are forgetting, Cuddy is always hurt, there will be enough at bats for all our OF. Watching Punto field during our collapse at the end of last year, I will take Harris and a little pop batting wise over Punto any time Gardy will allow it. Might happen anyway because Punto is always waiting to find a way to get hurt.
gosh, I didn’t mean to start an argument about what’s an argument.
What makes me feel good right now is looking at the options and comparing that to just 2 short years ago. All you have to do is remember Gardy having to use Jason Tyner, not only in the OF but as a DH, Lew Ford and Nick Punto in the OF during the course of the season.
So maybe you’ll excuse me for being reluctant to trade away one of the options they have right now.
Span
Casilla
Mauer
Morneau
Crede
Kubel
Young
Harris
Gomez
Still wish Johan was opening day pitcher
(would only happen if Steinbrenner was Pohlad but would have been nice and we would be favored to win at least
AL central
Sorry if this is a bit long…
I have been a bit uncomfortable about Crede’s low OBP/OPS, so I went out and dug.
his minor league line was .291/.346/.462. His first real sting in the majors was .285/.311/.515 in 2002. Then his OPS started going downhill. Why? Here is his BABIP in the majors:
2002: .304
2003: .274
2004: .247
2005: .253
2006: .272
2007: .230
2008: .242
(and BABIP for batters unlike for pitchers is a skill-driven stat)
So something happened around 2003. This is what happened: Here is his line drive percentage from 2002 on:
2002: 24.2%
2003: 21.7%
2004: 16.5%
2005: 19.0%
2006: 17.8%
2007: 14.6%
2008: 14.3%
(line drives fall for hits about 75% of the time)
In 2003 Crede had issues with trying to swing at out and away breaking balls (think Gomez) and the WSox staff turned him into a pull hitter that decreased that LD%. If there is a place that Crede can change that, it is with the Twins (I know that I have criticized Vavra about his approach, but in this case the Twins’ and Crede might be a match made in heaven).
If you wonder whether Crede will lose power if he hits in all fields, as an all field hitter in 2002 between AAA and the majors he hit 36 HR…
Full analysis and data here:
http://tenthinningstretch.blogspot.com/2009/02/bill-smith-made-sizeble-splash-in-free.html
thrylos,
Interesting stuff. Thanks. When I looked at his stats, I expected to find him in the 100-120 K/year range because of his low OBP. But his high is 81 in ‘04. Last year he had 45K in 335AB.
Howard,
every year he improved his K%, BB% and K/BB (mainly because he became an one dimensional hitter). I am not sure whether hitting in all field will change that, but I can live with less walks and more doubles and a .335 OBP driven by doubles instead of walks…
Nice to be back. Thanks, BS, for prospectively making this a highly competitive year.
Can’t wait to see how Cuddy does this Spring.
Delmon could be trade bait. Wouldn’t mind seeing a 3rd catcher with Redmond being more prospected as a pinch hitter (any time during a game) than the backup catcher.
I wonder how many of you who are so excited about Crede’s signing will be complaining 3 months from now when Crede’s been the the DL for 4 weeks?!?
I’m not thrilled about this signing at all.
And I’m still not sold on Denard ‘Flash in the’ Span
“Nice to be back.” Assuming Crede gets signed……….
Play ball!
I think there ends up being a very large platoon in the OF to start, with someone stepping forward in June. Through the first 40 games there are 120 OF games to be played, so I see each guy playing 30 games or so give or take a few, and whoever is stepping up and playing the best will get the bulk of the time the rest of the year. I think that’s the best way, as it promotes competition. If they don’t do that, I’d like to see Gomez come off the bench first.
I know this may sound weird, but I’m not sure there is going to be any such thing as a set line up. I think we will see little changes everyday. Some of them based on pitching situations and who’s hitting better against a certain pitcher. Maur is the starting catcher, but we all know that he will sit out a game at least once a week.
Gardy will also want to rest players once in a while too. Especially Crede with his back problems. I guessing he’ll be sitting a lot at home against left handed pitching. What will the line up look like then?
And then there are injuries to consider. And I’m not talking about the big major player on the DL type - I’m talking about the day to day stuff. Like how many games did Gomez miss after crashing into walls
I think we should really take a look at several line up possibilities instead of just one. For example …
Against RH pitching:
Against LH pitching:
When Mauer sits out a day game after a night game:
When they’re resting Crede’s back:
interesting stuff, thrylos. Maybe his change in approach has something to do with the ballpark? I dunno.
I know the Dome’s LF is not friendly to HR power hitters and I’d be all for Crede rediscovering the value of the line drive and using all fields. But I’ll be disappointed if he doesn’t provide at least some of the RH power that has been sorely missing.
Another thing I like about the Crede signing is what it does for Delmon Young. A gut feeling tells me he will play very well without all the focus on him in the coming season. But I can’t quit thinking about the “rummage sale” price we paid for Crede! Carl would be smiling! I wish I could get a discount from 7 million down to 2.5 million, LOL! That was quite a sales job by Boras.
JC,
Crede does have HR power in all fields.
Thank god… finally some great news for the Twins… Looks like this is going to be a good year. Hope Crede stays healthly because if he does, look out.
keep cuddyer in there
Pretty good signing considering the lateness of the move. I’m excited!!! Crede is the only WSox I’ve liked and I have voted for him every year in the All-Star balloting despite the impossible odds in the fan popularity contest given the existence of A-Roid. I especially like the way the contract has been structured but do wish it were for more than one year (like a club option for more years) especially if Crede manages to stay healthy this season.
Too bad the new stadium isn’t already open. Don’t know how Joe will fare on that Dome carpet. Gardy better play him in all the away games on grass.
Now that BS has successfully negotiated with Boras, can he please try for Manny??? (Sorry, Manny haters, I still would luv to see him in a Twins uniform!! If nothing else I’d bet they would do pretty well against Red Sox Nation!!)
“Who will be shipped out if we trade for Cruz”
From what I’ve read, Arizona is strapped for cash (which is the reason they didn’t try to resign Cruz in the first place). They are also desperate for some pitching help. I’ve also seen a few comments on some of the non-Twins blogs from Arizona fans about needing infield help as well.
I’m guessing Humber will almost certainly be one of the players. He’s out of options, the Twins don’t have room for him and he would be a pretty good fit for Arizona. If there is any truth to the comments those fans made, then maybe Macri, but I’m inclined to think it might be another pitcher. I’m also wondering how Arizona is set for catchers. I would almost swear I read rumors that they were interested in Pudge, but decided against it. I could be wrong about that though.
Unil June, something like this
Righties:
Span CF
Casilla 2B
Mauer C
Morneau 1B
Kubel DH
Young LF
Crede 3B
Cuddyer RF
Punto SS
Lefties:
Gomez CF
Casilla 2B
Mauer DH
Morneau 1B
Young LF
Crede 3B
Cuddyer RF
Redmond C
Punto SS
Obviously w the outfield situation and all of them being righties but Span, those other 3 will be intermixed in their from time to time.
Thry, agree 100% that if Crede has struggled with hitting balls the other way, he has now arrived in Nirvana…just hope Vavra doesn’t execute a “cure” that takes away his pull HR power!!!
Cuddyer is going to get his fair share of time at 1B this year too. Morneau will get more DH at bats than last year. I’m to lazy to find links, but its been documented that Morneau doesn’t like to take days off, but has no problem taking DH duties for a day. This is also a convinient way to get Kubel out of the line up against lefties occasionally
Good times…
I think Span plays everyday, that is what Gardy has mentioned before. Gardy values his speed, defense, OBP, and plate discipline as a good leadoff hitter too much. I think Delmon/Cuddy/Gomez will be splitting the majority of the time
Cuddyer or Young for Cruz? No chance. The D-Backs have little leverage. They’re basically saddled with a guy they have no plans to sign, and thus are in no position to demand a player of Young (especially) or Cuddy’s caliber. Maybe Humber or one of our infielders, perhaps a mid-level prospect or two, but not a key cog. And if that’s the asking price, Cuddyer or Young, I hope Bill Smith laughs his way out of the room.
I am thinking Young should get the nod over Cuddyer and Gomez. But if I remember correctly, last April Delmon got off to a slow start and admitted he was a slow starter– so if he isn’t into gear when the bell rings, it could be a windfall for Cuddyer and Gomez as if as perceived, Gardy is not a big Delmon fan, he may have trouble cracking the line up again.
Unless he has a sophmore jinx or injury, Span starts nearly every game.
Let’s face facts: if Punto can consistently hit north of .250 he will be the starting SS. He has above average speed on the pads and consistently flashes leather.
I would go with:
Span CF
Casilla 2b
Mauer c
Morneau 1b
Crede 3b
Kubel DH
Young LF
Cuddyer RF
Harris/Punto ss
ideally
Span
Mauer
Young
Morneau
Crede
Kubel
Cuddyer
Harris
Casilla
Re DBacks and Cruz, they may need help at 2B more than on the mound. O-Dog is a big loss especially the double whammy of helping the rival Dodgers. I don’t see Humber being a factor unless he’s willing to pitch out of the bullpen. With Webb and Haren, solid 3 and 4 SP in Davis and Garland, Scherzer would be Humber’s only rival as a SP and I thought they were high on Scherzer.
The DBacks also added quite an assortment to the pen but ever since they lost Valverde, the late innings are a question mark (note they snatched Korecky).
As you’re probably aware from the recent Prez visit and speech down here, this is foreclosure central along with CA, FL and NV. So it would be surprising if the DBacks FO isn’t forecasting soft ticket sales for ‘09. What’s really hurting right now is slow sales for Spring Training especially with new teams migrating from FL into brand new stadiums. That’s as much to do with all of you around the country not vacationing down here this year as it is the locals tightening their wallets. Of course, the LALALand Dodgers apparently didn’t get the memo that the economy has tanked. They said on the TV last night that their $100 seats weren’t selling. Well DUH! $100 for a spring training game???!!! You can get prime seats behind home plate at the other venues in the $18-$20 type range.
OHL— I am afraid the line will be closer to .225– If Punto stays above that, and battles his tail off, Gardy will play him.
I just hope the manager doesn’t do the same with Cuddy if he struggles.
But as I said before, both Punto and Cuddy will no doubt spend a great deal of time on the DL.
Sorry all you Go-Go skeptics but I’ll bet he starts at CF from Day 1. Read the Gardy comments on the Twins website.
Whoever said Young is not a Gardy fav hit the nail right on the head. LNP is a fav and so is Gomez. Now you all know what I think of LNP so it does pain me to think that Go-Go might share fav space in Gardy’s head with LNP. IF Gomez continues to struggle mightily at the plate, then we may see some shuffling. But if he makes any type of improvement over last year at the plate, I think Gardy will like his speed in CF too much to bench him. Especially because that would mean Delmon on his ice skates would have to be at one of the OF positions (yeah, I know, it could be Kubes but that’s an adventure at times also).
BTW, Peter Gammons of all people cited Gomez as the best defensive CF in baseball in an ESPN article a few weeks ago. I presume it has at least something to do with all those range, speed etc. stats some of us threw around much of last season.
Heading into last year nobody was counting on Span or Castilla to be a contributor, let alone making the 25-man roster. After a half-season of productive play it is now assumed by many that they are proven players. They both could turn out to be another Lew Ford.
Gardy will go w/Cuddyer in RF, unless he has a horrendous camp. I think Young and Span will battle it out for the LF spot and end up in a platoon situation. I think Gardy will stick with Castilla at 2B, but Harris will get some playing time there.
Cuddy has the best arm in the Twins outfield. Young will DH v. lefties.
Just like all the flexibility this Twins team affords Gordy. Lots of good options.
Yes, whoever Gordy is, he should be pleased.
totally agree with one hung….young has not shown me anything in the outfield…only reason he gets put outs is cuz the runner thinks he will catch it and never does…catches them sleeping…can not wait for opening day
Back to the Garciappara idea, we will have the best pinch hitting in the majors… without him. We will always have a fourth outfielder to take out Harris or Punto. Harris should never have 4 atbats in a game. Because we should pinch hit then bring in Punto. Not to mention we have Redmond to pinch hit, and Tolbert can also play short.
Young is a better right fielder than Cuddyer. Here are their respective +/- numbers in 2007 when they were both playing RF
http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/charts/leaders2-07.gif
Young played hurt for 2 months last year. Caddaver never plays hurt.
I agree that Young and Cuddy will be the most likely platoon. Span will play everyday because he’s our best leadoff guy. When Cuddy plays RF Span will be in left with DY or Kubes at DH depending on right/left matchups. When Young plays LF Span could be in right and Cuddy/Kubes at DH. Span could play CF with DY and Cuddy at the corner of spots and have the speedt Gomez on the bench for late inning situations. It’s really amazing the OF depth this team has. NO superstars, just solid guys who are interchangeable. Just somehting to keep an eye on, I live in NY and the Mets are apparantly desperate for another RH hitting OF, now I have no idea what they have in their farm system or even on their active roster we might want but could Cuudy or even DY be trade bait at the deadline?? if they’re desperate enough maybe we can snag a prospect or two.
Come on people. This isn’t rocket science. Span gets on base, but most importantly he has some of the best range in the OF. Span will play in some form or fashion just about every day. If Gomez improves his on base percentage … he will be on the field too and in the starting lineup. That leaves us with DY and Cuddyer. They are practically the same guy. Both have great arms, neither can field a lick before the are able to show off their arm. The two intangibles that separates the two is DY is healthy and not coming back from an injury like Cuddyer … not to mention DY hit for a darn good average last year minus the power. The most obvious intangible is that DY is only 23 years old. I am no genius but DY has the upside and is only going to get better … something both DY and the coaching staff should be working towards.
What about this?
LF Span
2B Casilla
C Mauer
1B Morneau
RF Cuddyer (or Young, with Span in RF)
DH Kubel
3B Crede
CF Gomez
SS Punto
I think Gomez should bump up one spot and let Nick hit in the 9-hole…
Thoughts on that bottom of the lineup switcheroo?
One Hung Low cracked me up when he said the line up will give “Gordy” more options. From now on I’m calling him that. Here’s one for you Hung Low. It’s funny but kind of loud, check it out:
Good lineup, Mark. But I want Crede followed by Cruddy:
1)Span the Man Unusual
2)Delmon (not my idea, sorry)
3)Mauer Power
4)Morneau
5)Crede
6)Cruddy (definately not my idea)
7)Kubes
8)Casilla
9)”Shorty” Punto
1. Span
2. Punto
3. Mauer
4. Morneau
5. Cuddyer
6. Kubel
7. Crede
8. Young
9. Casilla
Punto DID have higher OPS and SLG than Casilla, plus take some pressure off him. Take the pressure off Young. Give Cuddy the chance to reclaim his form (and decrease Crede PA’s by 2 per week batting 7th). And then my lineup for the World Series finally WIN.
1. Span
2. Casilla
3. Mauer
4. Morneau
5. Young
6. Kubel
7. Crede
8. Gomez
9. Punto
1. Span
2. Casilla
3. Mauer
4. Crede
5. Morneau
6. Kubel
7. Cuddy Bear
8. Gomez
9. Punto
Good points about Span and Casilla not really being proven players. In defense of Span, to me he is simply a different player in 2008 than in 2007 and prior. Span was stronger last season and he modified both his stance and his swing. For the first time, he showed the ability to turn on the inside pitch and hit it with authority. Span also increased his plate coverage, so despite taking a lot more pitches, he did not increase his K’s… enabling a dramatic increase in BB’s.
Pitchers made some adjustments in Sept, however, SPan is truly a different player and I see him continuing his great work. Casilla? I have more faith in Punto than Casilla
I was taken aback by the omission of the venerable Cudd-ster in your list! As I ponder it further though, I do agree it is super difficult to remove Young or Span. And while Gomez is delightful to watch, I do wonder if his approach still remains such that he could be the odd duck out with Span manning center. If Twins faithful are smiling into late October, I forsee Delmon Young will be one of the great reasons why.
The price paid for Crede makes it a worthwhile gamble, but for all you kool-aid drinkers that are wetting themselves over this deal, recent history suggests Crede will play about 80 games this year, so while you’re debating a lineup that includes Crede, be realistic and also debate the Part B lineup that doesn’t include Crede. Oh and by the way, good luck with #8 playing every day, that by itself makes the Tribe the huge divisional favorite.
Twins wishful lineup:
C Tovar LF
R Carew 2B
H Killebrew 1B
T Oliva RF
G Nettles 3B
B Allison Dh
T Uhlaender CF
L Cardenas SS
J Roseboro C
Gopher in SO Cal:
What no Sandy Valdaspino??
My guess at the opening day lineup:
1. Span LF
2. Mauer C
3. Crede 3B
4. Morneau 1B
5. Cuddy RF
6. Young/Kubel DH
7. Casilla 2B
8. Punto SS
9. Gomez CF
If it were up to me I’d sandwich Crede in between Mauer and Morneau. Why? He’s likely to get a lot of good pitches being placed between those two. Plus Mauer isn’t the typical type of hitter for the 3 spot.
This lineup also gets our worst two defensive outfielders off the field and in to the DH role.
GOPHER:
You remember former Twin CF Ted Uhlaender? He passed away last week. Ted was 68. You could also put Kirby in center. Zoilo was pretty good at short. I was told just this week in no uncertain terms that Rich Rollins wasn’t too good of a third baseman, so I like your choice!
I really believe Crede is the 7th spot. His OBP is terrible. I really think his value over Buscher in in his defense.
Someone said put Buscher in against tought righties. I have to believe Buscher is out of a job. No on has made a big deal about this but we did get Crede to be a right handed power hitter right? Presumably this means he will help us against lefties. Well, his power numbers the last 2 years go like this. Against righties - 21 homers
Against lefties in 130 plate appearances-0 home runs. That is not a typo.. 0 home runs and a BA of less than .200.
We used to like these guys when we were kids:
1)Cezar (played all nine positions once)
2 Bombo LF
3)Zoilo SS
4)Killer DH
5)Herbie 1B
6)Kirby CF
7)Bruno RF
8)Pags 3B
9)Gags, ah, let’s see, what’s left… Second? Yep, he could handle Second.
DES:
Maybe we should keep that average against lefties quiet, eh?
Why, just why…does Gardy insist on playing Punto? Just reminds me of Tomm Kelly and his love of playing Denny “Iron Hands” Hocking every day. Makes no sense.
Even through all of his “disappointing” seasons Cuddy’s career stats are better than Crede’s and Young’s.
I’m not going to say DY doesn’t have more potential to be a greater power threat than Cuddy. I will suggest that so far, Cuddy has provided more middle of the order-style production.
Over their careers, Cuddy has higher numbers in many important offensive categories:
Slugging %: .441 to .413
On base %: .344 to .326
ops+: 106 to 98
walk rate: 1/9.35 to 1/21.7
xbase %: 37% to 27%
Cuddy has shown plus offensive skills and average to above average defensive skills in right. He even managed to provide better extra base percentage than Young last year despite having all sorts of hand issues. (32 to 25)
Delmon has heaps of potential and by no means be discarded. One thing he has not YET done, is show that he should play ahead of a healthy Michael Cuddyer. Things change, people improve and tap in to their potential.
And no, its not fair to use stats to defend one thing but then discard them in defense of another.
Dood,
I don’t know where you get your numbers but last year
Cuddaver was .249/.330/.369
and
Young .290/.336/.405
Young played hurt for 2 months with leg problems, while Cuddaver went to the DL for finger issues (twice). And yes a broken finger on your non-dominant hand hurts, but it ain’t that bad (if you don’t believe me, ask Casilla, who played through it).
Why does Gomez seem to get a free pass to the starting line up? I think out of all the outfielders, Gomez should be on the bench. Gomez reminds me or Pedro Cerrano (yes it’s a “Major League” reference)…Pedro is the one who could crush the fastball but could not hit the curve…until he told Joe-boo to “F” off.
anyways, Go-Go HAS to hit off speed pitches and work the count. Until that time, he should be great for pinch running or defensive replacement.
They still had so many games last year where they needed someone to come off the bench late that is a HR threat. I remember Punto pinch hitting late in games when we really could use a HR. Not gonna happen this year again. Still nobody to come off the bench.
I start Buscher over Crede all day long!
Hey Howard. Gomez is already the best defensive centerfielder in the game. He starts most games. I don’t care if he doesn’t hit much because he can bunt 280 if he wants. Come on man!
So the only year that counts is 2008? That makes perfect sense.
Even considering that he A) had a mysterious finger ailment, that he tried to play through, and B) never got back in the groove, Cuddyer still produced extra base hits at a higher rate than Young.
Cuddy had 20 extra base hits (12,4,3) against his 62 hits and 25 walks. Compared to Delmon’s 42 extra base hits (28,4,10) against his 167 hits and 35 walks.
Delmon’s slugging percentage was higher last year due to hitting a higher percentage of homeruns. And even then is was only 3.6% higher.
If you calculate out the number of hits that Cuddy would have got based on his rates last year, but getting Del’s PAs, Cuddy gets 28 2b, 8 3b, and 6 HR.
I know that Delmon was also hobbled last year, but what I’m saying is that there is not any data that suggests a healthy Delmon is better than a healthy Michael. We want to believe it, because being better than a healthy Michael Cuddyer is being a pretty good player. And again, I’m not saying Delmon has to go, because he could really break out and hopefully will.
I’m saying that apart from the lack of walks, Delmon’s current rates of production put him at the top or bottom of the order, setting up rallies or prolonging them.
The guys who are suspect are really Span and Gomez. Span hit nearly as many home runs last year in 93 big league games as he did in 549 minor league games. Denard very well could have turned a corner, or perhaps he just pulled a Lew Ford.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not rooting against ANY of our guys. I want the Twins to mix it and match it, but when they start the season against King Felix, I would expect the lineup to look like this:
Span LF
Casilla 2B
Mauer C
Morneau 1B
Cuddyer RF
Kubel DH
Crede 3B
Punto SS
Gomez CF
but in game 2, against Bedard, We might see:
Gomez CF
Casilla 2B
Mauer C
Morneau 1B
Cuddyer RF
Kubel DH
Young LF
Crede 3B
Punto SS
Although I doubt they would field such a different lineup in the second game.
Brilliant pick-up in JOE CREDE thats gotta hurt White sox nation. I predict the WHITE SOX finish last behind the ROYALS. I can’t stand the Pale Hose. Ozzie and A.J. time for a group hug!
Crede will definately help. D. Young needs to improve his menatl approach to hitting or he is the odd man out. He doesn’t think about the situation and pitch count (Balls/Strikes) to be a solid Twin’s type player. He swings at to many pitches when the count is in his favor - we need extra base hits from him - not singles.
Hey guys, two quick observations:
Crede played on a Sox team loaded with HR power - how many games did they win WITHOUT bopping at least one outta there?? The Twins? Not so much. Why do you all keep putting Crede lower and lower in your proposed lineups? If he stays healthy, he’s a proven hitter with proven power.
This is not a new observation: who does Mauer most resemble in terms of his offensive production? Jeter!! Where does Jeter bat? SECOND. Why does “Gordy” keep batting Joe third????
PEACE — can’t wait for opening day!!
GOGO, I don’t understand your post. Would have made more sense if you said “how many games did the Twins win WITHOUT bopping at least one outa there?” The answer would be quite a few. “How many did the White Sox win WITHOUT bopping at least one outa there?” Answer. Not many or not so much. Or just substitute the word without with the word with. Homeruns are nice but his OBP is pretty bad. Do you put him in the prime spot just for the one extra home run he hits every 10 games? I wouldn’t but mainly cuz I think Young and Kubel are gonna hit for a higher ave and with some power.
Beisbol,
“Where does Jeter bat? SECOND. Why does “Gordy” keep batting Joe third????”
Because “Gordy” didn’t have A-Rod, Giambi, Abreu, Cano, Posada, Matsui, Nady and Damon as possibles to fill the #3 hole.
Des, my bad. The “Twins not so much” should have come right after the comment about Sox HR power, not after “how many games….” You’re absolutely right about our Twins putting up an incredible number of runs with so little power. It’s nice to see people can catch misplaced English since the English and especially the spelling/keying can sometimes be atrocious on these blogs.
However, you are leaping to a conclusion that I’m not proposing. I’m not sure how prime is a prime spot for you. I’m not suggesting either the 3 or 4 hole for Crede especially if Mauer continues to bat 3rd. But some proposed lineups have him down in 7 or even 8. He started higher up when this blog began and all I’m saying is that as more and more people blog, they keep slotting him lower. In terms of experience and I have to admit I’m mostly thinking of his at bats against the Twins (there are not enough hours to watch both the Twins and other teams that closely) I would trust Crede in a tight situation at the plate over Young for example.
Jon, neither does any other manager have that lineup (which still doesn’t provide WS or even post-season without pitching but that’s a different topic to blog about). But “Gordy” does have Justin.
Mauer is a proven get on base a lot guy. Without someone behind Justin, like last year, none of this matters. But if the combo of Cuddyer, Young, Kubel and now Crede can provide Justin with some cover, wouldn’t you rather have a high percentage of time someone on base for Justin? This leads to another topic for blogging which is Mauer GIDP. At this point I would invite the statheads to jump into this one.
How many times did Justin come up to the plate with sacks empty? How many times was it because Joe had GIDP in front of him? Would Joe see a different combo of pitches if he batted 2nd vs. 3rd? With a runner or RISP? Without? Howard, this could be the start of another blog!! : )
My lineup for Opening Night:
Span lf
Casilla 2b
Mauer c
Morneau 1b
Cuddyer rf
Kubel dh
Crede 3b
Punto ss
Gomez cf
Young will get a lot of at-bats with all the other three OFs sitting quite a bit. Harris will get many starts at third and probably occasionally at short. Crede’s offense is a minor upgrade, due to his power (much needed by the Twins), but his real value is as a plus defender.
beisbol,
“Mauer is a proven get on base a lot guy”
“How many times did Justin come up to the plate with sacks empty?”
How the hell can you be on both sides of the same argument??
Like others have said, I think Delmon is going to have to have a great spring to be a starter.
This will be long winded, but I’ve got a lot to say:
To anyone who is still skeptical about the time Crede will put in this year, I have to say, I’d still take the 17 HRs and 55 RBI, and his defense, in 97 games for this team this year over Buscher/Harris and their 11 HRs combined in 200 games played between them last year. Its an improvement any way you slice it, even if he only plays 80 games, which nobody can predict, so its a useless stat to throw out there, the whole he’s only going to play 80 games stuff. The Twins did not risk a lot by doing this and have been rewarded handsomely in my opinion. And if the injury does flare up or something else happens, this team for the first time in a long time has the depth to withstand it, it’s gonna be a fun year.
I’m stoked about this team this year now, at least the lineup anyway, the bullpen is still a question mark, but I think their are guys in the system who could be just about as good as anyone else left on the free agent market as I don’t think any trade will happen before the season starts. I highly doubt Juan Cruz will be in a Twin uniform this year. In my opinion the Twins do not have or will not give up the players they would want in return. Ya, Humber or Boof would be a nice piece in any deal, but thats not nearly enough. Cuddyer’s not going anywhere, and though I might catch some flak from some people who I think are R-tarded in their thoughts in relation to him, they CAN NOT trade Delmon Young. How many 23 year olds who already have 2 seasons of hitting .288 and .290 on their resumes do you think are out there? Ya, I’d like to see him transform his approach ala Span last year, It would help him in all phases of his hitting, but I can’t throw out the fact that he still hit around .300 while swinging at everything, to me that shows he’s got the skills to be a fantastic player as he matures (which everybody’s gotta do sometime, right?).
and Boof, if he’s not hurt too bad, which I don’t think he is, has potential to be a good bullpen guy, maybe even set-up man if he’s got spring training and the entire season to focus on that craft. I was at a game last year where he was hitting 95-97 on the domes gun in a relief appearance so he’s got the ability to be that type of guy.
Other names I just want to throw out there, though they probably won’t make it to MLB in this season as far as bullpen guys are concerned are Robert Delaney and Anthony Slama, who have dominated every level they’ve played so far, and with ridiuculous K numbers. I actually thought they should each have been upped at least another class during last season. And there is another Garza esque guy in there too who the Twins drafted last year that I’m excited about, as long as he can find some semblance of control which he lost after being moved to Beloit, though he was still striking out 9.8/9IP, Shooter Hunt. If the Twins have shown anything with their farm system, its that they can churn out pitchers, so I think this is a real possibility. If I were to put out my top 10 prospect list for the Twins right now, I’d have him at #1 because he’s the guy out of the Hicks’ and Revere’s everyone else points out that I see making it on the MLB team first (he blew away Garza’s numbers in the same amount of starts in Rookie ball (4) before being moved up). and his curveball is electric, and can throw 95+. Carlos Gutierrez, the other high draft pick of the Twins last year and surprise from them by all the experts for the 2nd year in a row, also has the best overall pitch in the Twins system with his sinking fastball that has ridiculous movement and hits mid 90’s on the gun. I’d have a lot more to say about the Twins system if I was focusing on it, so anyway, back to the MLB club…
The rotation has the look of the 90’s and early 2000’s Braves, young and complimentary to eachother. They’ve got the Ace - Liriano. They’ve got another shut down guy - Baker. Slowey keeps showing he’s got what it takes to be a front end guy, Blackburn was a surprise and his style is perfect for the type of defense the Twins put on the field, and Perkins also showed flashes. If anyone falters they also have some good options to try in the minors, Swarzak, Humber (out of options but whatever) Duensing, to name a few.
This team this year is deep, and very skilled. I’m hoping the opening day lineup looks like this:
Span LF
Casilla 2B
Mauer C
Morneau 1B
Young RF
Crede 3B
Kubel/Cuddyer DH
Punto SS
Gomez CF
Cuddyer and Kubel can be switched depending on the Pitcher and Cuddyer will get a lot of at bats playing RF as well.
To the Punto bashers, quit complaining about him as a hitter, you should know by now thats not why he is in there, the guy is a whiz with a glove, and that can be just as important as hitting 20 bombs and driving in 100 guys over a season. Everybody wants a guy who can hit .300 at every position, but I doubt there has EVER been a team to have that happen, especially in todays age. And try to find a team that DID NOT have a guy starting for them who hit below .250 last year, I’m 99.8% confident you won’t find one, so lay off the guy and instead praise the effort and determination he puts out on the field every game. How can you blame Gardenhire for liking a guy that puts everything he’s got into the game every time he plays it?
All for now.
romer,
Am I to understand that, because of the Twins’ Joe Crede FA signing, you have decided (once again) to forgo sex in order to follow the Twins this season?
I thought that we had already discussed this, and that you were planning to take the appropriate corrective action.
I cannot emphasize enough, as someone who used to respect your opinions and judgement, how very disappointed I am, with your choice of priorities.
I hope, for your sake, that you will, once again reconsider this unwise decision.
Sincerely,
Dr. sane, PHD,
DeVry School of Psychotherapy
Hey Howard!
Sounds like Gardy’s got your blog bookmarked!
Note this quote from an article on the “other” TwinCities paper (sorry if it’s also in a Strib article and I just missed it):
“With Crede at third and Morneau at first, Minnesota will have two all-stars in the infield and another behind the plate in Joe Mauer, along with a proven defensive twosome at second and short in Alexi Casilla and Nick Punto. That adds up to what Gardenhire called one of his most “polished” infields yet.
So has the skipper been daydreaming about his Opening Day lineup?
‘No,’ Gardenhire quipped. ‘I’ll let (the) bloggers do that.’”
It does make one wonder what sort of adjective he really used that the writer felt necessary to edit out, though, doesn’t it?
I think (the) replaces “…those really wise Star Tribune blog commenters and…”
Yeah… I bet you’re right!
My Lineup:
Span (OF)
Mauer (C) - Patient Contact Hitter
Morneau (1B) - Best overall Hitter, Average and Power.
Crede (3B) - Biggest Power Threat
Kubel (DH)
Cuddyer/Young (OF)
Casilla (2B)
Punto (SS)
Gomez (CF)
I think its okay to live with the extra outfielder scenario and have some kind of platoon/rotation involving all. I think the 4 OF’s would get enough at bats and the real cream would eventually rise to the top. A little competition where all get enough of a chance wouldn’t hurt.
Here’s the controversial part - my own personal bias would be that Span and Cuddy get the benefit of the doubt and at least initially, a few more innings than the other two. I think we need to see if Span continues where he left off or has a sophomore slump (hope not). Cuddy needs to prove he’s healthy and an above average player (jury is still out).
Delmon and Go-Go will get enough at bats but will not have a position handed to them like last year. I think both have been too highly touted coming to the organization and a little humbling will either lead to them finally busting out or continuing to flash in the pan.
Either way, we get to mid-season and we either know who our best 3 OF’s are - or another team makes an offer for someone that we can trade and get whatever missing component we might need to finally make a legitimate pennant/playoff push.
Not disagreeing with your scenario, Unbelievable, but just for the record, Gomez was not “handed” a position last spring. He, Span and Pridie were in a competition during Spring Training. Pridie fell off quickly, but the battle between Span and Gomez went nearly down to the wire. They both did well, but in the end the Twins went with Gomez and his potential to be disruptive to pitchers and defense on the basepaths over Span’s greater experience/polish/reliability. Whether it was the correct decision or not is open to debate, but he did have to earn a spot… it wasn’t handed to him the day he walked in to camp.
Jim C, agreed Go-Go earned the starting job last year…and so did Delmon. Sometimes entitlement can come with that and I’m not saying that either necessarily feels that way. But at 23, its not a bad thing either to let them know they need to go out and achieve and overachieve. Perhaps those two starting out with less than what they started out with last year will end up in a different result by year’s end - or at least let it become clearer as to who should be traded if that’s the way it should go.
Personally, I am intrigued by Span after being underwhelmed with him in Spring Training games the past few years. I don’t know if last year was his flash - hope not. His stats and approach remind me of Ellsbury who we were ready to trade a lot for a year ago…. Time will tell…
Here’s my order, not that you’ll ever actual see it.
Mauer(C)
Morneau(1B)
Cuddyer(RF)
Span(LF)
Kubel(DH)
Casilla(2B)
Punto(SS)
Crede(3B)
Gomez(CF)
Howard, who would opposing pitchers rather face next with Morneau up at bat, DY or Crede? Isn’t that the question that needs to be answered in order to complete the line up?
I believe that DY would see more fastballs hitting in front of Kubel, than if he hits after Kubel.
I’m happy that the Twins have this new issue to think about.
bison: You’re going to have to do a LOT of work to explain how that lineup works.
Aside from the bizarre 1-3, you’ve got Span lodged between Cuddyer and Kubel (which means he’s not going to be doing much in the way of stealing)…and then shove Casilla behind Kubel (same situation)
In fact, I don’t think Crede’s much of a speed demon either…so you can forget about Gomez being able to do anything with his speed (stealing/bunting for hits/etc)
Twins Manager Gardenhire is more concerned about being fair to all his players and putting them all in the lineup as much as possible than he is about winning games. Accordingly, his fairness has cost the Twins a substantial number of games in the standings for several years.
Hush Stuart, the Twins fans are not supposed to know about Gardenhire’s folly.
T:
It’s all about OBP.
Ah, but bison…you’re assuming that the OBPs of the various players wouldn’t be impacted by dramatically changing where they hit.
T:
Yes I am. The entire concept of protection is dubious and any impact is much smaller than commonly believed.
