Misery loves a companion
Posted on May 12th, 2009 – 9:51 AMBy Howard
I watched a few innings of the Mets-Atlanta game last night and the Johan vs. Derek Lowe matchup was a treat. Johan was his nasty self but suffered the occasional curse of the strikeout pitcher — needing a lot of pitches to do his excellent work.
So, in the seventh inning and after 108 pitches, Mets manager Jerry Manuel took out his ace.
What happened next has become familiar to Twins fans this season.
A 1-1 tie became an 8-3 Mets loss. Santana is now 4-24-3 with an 0.78 ERA and a tad bit frustrated. After the game, he walked the manager behind the bus and showed him the tires: “When Jerry came in he didn’t ask me how I felt or anything. He just called to the bullpen. I guess the decision was made,” Santana told the New York Daily News. “He’s the manager. In the past he has been able to make decisions that work out for us. Unfortunately, that wasn’t the case tonight.”
Here’s the rest of that report.
168 Responses to "Misery loves a companion"
LOL…Santana planting the seeds of discontent. Begging for a trade by the end of the season maybe?
I watched a little bit of that game last night. Win or lose, watching Santana pitch is like watching a work of art. A beauty.
Ever since Santana has been traded the Mets bullpen has blown countless games for him. He is still something to watch though.
Well, Santana spoke his mind. When he did that here in Minnesota, some fans became offended for one reason or another.
Look, these pitchers have pride. They know the manager is in charge, but they certainly have a right to their opinion, too. In fact, I think any manager would honestly tell you they expect a starting pitcher to feel somewhat slighted upon being removed from an impressive outing. It’s called being a competitor.
This, to me, all goes back to heavily managers now rely on the pitch count. It’s something that’s just sort of out there, but no one wants to talk about it. Even Gardy, when discussing why he removed Nick Blackburn after 7 innings on Sunday, talked about wanting to end the day on a positive, keep his confidence high, etc. He didn’t state the obvious–well, he was at 99 pitches, so in May, that means you’re done.
I think at the end of the day it was that simple. 99 pitches in May means you’re not going to start the next inning.
As far as the Twins go, if we can consistently get starts like we did from Blackburn on Sunday, then this debate will soon become a moot point. One thing is becoming obvious, however: those who thought Santana was on the decline when we traded him in 2007 were wrong.
I think Santana has every right to be mad about losing a win after pitching 7 innings and then the bull pen blowing up and losing the game. The Twins have had the same thing happen to them with the starter doing a good job only to have the win turned into a loss by the bullpen. One would hope that BS would be doing some serious thinking about addition by subtraction in our bullpen and maybe get the help he should have secured in the off season. Everyone and his brother knew that the bullpen needed help - some good help and not just a band aid.
The bullpen was bad but if the defense would have been better he’d have had a 2-0 lead and got through the 7th. At that point the mets have a good setup guy and a closer.
Maybe if the Mets did not have to pay Santana a King’s ransom they could afford a better bullpen and some more offense. I’m just sayin……..
errr, 1-0 lead
The Mets have one of the most expensive bullpens in baseball.
Frustration? Fine. Casting the manager in a questionable light? Not so classy, but foregivable. Easily 80% of managers would have pulled Santana, don’t you think?
These players love to talk about how important it is to “win”. But somehow, they have trouble figuring out how to feed their families on a paltry $15M annual salary? You want to win, Mr. Santana? Restrict your compensation to 10% of the total player payroll and watch the wins pile up.
Poor Johan. I guess he’ll have to live with $137 million guaranteed if he never wins a championship with the Mets.
When you get guys like Santana who make truckloads of money every year, you have to understand that they have “LARGE EGOS” and so every win is a big deal to them. Also, it’s important to note that just because you spend alot of money on the bullpen or on a particular play, doesn’t guarantee that you will have good results (i.e. take a look at the Yankee’s starting pitchers). I really don’t care if Santana loses every start because of the bullpen since he is no longer a TWIN but I do care about our bullpen and don’t know how much longer BS can justify not making some moves.
I am still not getting all the bitterness over Santana’s salary.
Big time athletes get paid big time money. That’s all there is to it, folks. It’s not Santana’s fault. In fact, I suppose you could argue that because the team has invested so much in Santana, they have an obligation to err on the side of leaving him in during situations like last night.
If there’s any “fault” here at all, it would be in Santana’s calling out of Jerry Manuel. But I didn’t see it as disrespectful; Santana disagreed with the decision and voiced his displeasure. That’s his right. He’s a professional just like everyone else.
I get a kick out of how people assume that only the manager has the right to voice his opinion after the game. As long as Johan understands that Jerry Manuel is in charge and does not allow that to affect his performance, what’s the problem here?
If you want to be bitter over salary, be bitter over a guy who makes $4 million dollars to give you the same results you would get from a Single A player making $50,000. Don’t be bitter over a 2-time Cy Young winner whose worst months of season traditionally have been April and May, yet is posting an ERA below 1 so far in 2009.
The Mets did go out and spend money on their bullpen, Johan’s salary was not an issue - but don’t worry about facts getting in the way of your rant.
Actually, Johan has been very gracious about the bullpen all year. This comment is nothing.
Johan has been spectatular since the 2nd half last year.
I’ve got no problem with Johan or the money he makes.I also have no problem with the Twins deciding not to give him a six or seven year deal.I think most people understood that Santana was still in his prime when the Twins traded him.The question is will he still be worth the huge pay check in the extra years of his Mets deal.
I agree with Jason on one thing.Santana felt he deserved a chance to get out of the seventh inning and voiced his opinion,He did nothing more than answer a question.The only difference is that if he was in Minnesota he might not have been asked the question in the first place.
“I am still not getting all the bitterness over Santana’s salary.”
Nor am I. Morneau also makes a nice salary, especially considering he got his big payday before he reached free agency, and he isn’t subjected to the same judgements.
I’m not bitter about his salary. I just don’t have a lot of sympathy for him. This was his choice. He will have to live with it. His complaints ring hollow.
I watched the game yesterday and I watched Johan’s previous start in Philly. He had way better stuff in Philly, but that’s why he’s great because he doesn’t need his best stuff to be effective. I’ve been wondering how Johan likes being treated like some expensive luxury item that is theirs to use up and throw away. It sounds like he’s getting sick of the NY style. His bad he should have stayed here! I think he would have survived on 80 mil. If only the Twins would have shown some commitment to trying to win the division in 07 instead of trading Castillo for some never gonna be losers!
And don’t give me any crap about how good Martin is becoming a good ball player because he’ll never be anything more than a back-up if he makes it to the majors at all.
I don’t have a ton of sympathy for him either. I just think some fans forget that most ballpayers would like to make what Santana makes. He doesn’t get paid for his ego, he gets paid for his talent.
I don’t care about Johan’s salary. He wanted the “big stage” and he wanted to go to a team he felt was more committed to winning (that is, putting a team behind him that is championship calibre… something he didn’t feel the Twins did). That’s fine.
But pardon me if I laugh my butt off while that team behind him gives him absolutely no run support, no bullpen support, and totally wastes his sub-1.00 ERA. I think it’s funny as hell and I hope he takes his low ERA right in to the HoF… without ever getting a ring.
The bitterness extends to the whole greedy mess, Jason. Probably half the families in your town cannot afford a cable TV subscription. They certainly can’t afford $120 for a family excursion to the ballpark. So, if you have to splurge big time just to take in a game or two, and then are treated to Manny Ramirez or some other clown dogging it as you munch on your cold $6 hot dog and your warm $8 beer, you might feel some bitterness towards the owners who charged you $20 to park, towards the players who can’t live on $10M and couldn’t care less if the rest of the team has to consist of cast-offs in order to cover their nut, and even towards the rabid blogosees who screech for the cheap rich bastards running the team to pay whatever ransom the a**wipe agents demand. That’s the full texture of the bitterness. Santana’s situation simply epitomizes part of it.
If you really feel that way about MLB birdofprey, I would assume that you would stop patronizing it altogether and get your baseball fix from the local High School or Town Team.
Yes, a lot of what you said about the economics of baseball is true–not everyone can afford to enjoy it, sadly. For instance, how sad is it that $6,000 per game seats at Yankee Stadium (and $120 per game seats at the Metrodome for that matter) sit empty and meanwhile there are kids at home who would love to go to the game but can’t afford it.
But why single out Santana? By that logic, you would have to also be insulted by the Pohlads, Justin Morneau, Joe Mauer, and Joe Nathan as well, right?
Johan is 4-2.
Thanks.
I needed a reason to be bitter and my own life is just NOT unhappy enough to fulfil that need.
Sh-t!
Even the Santana Epic is not depressing enough.
I’m still livin’ large and lovin’ life!
What the hell am I supposed to do?
We happen to be talking about Santana, Jason. The embittered out there can randomly point a finger and hit a deserving target, perhaps targets that include fans like you and me who don’t express enough outrage about the inaccessibility of the game to others.
It all goes back to what I said yesterday. The Twins = El Cheapo.
There is always going to be a difference in how a local fan base views the guys who, with their agents, are willing/able to come to agreement on terms to stay with the local team and those who are perceived (rightly or wrongly) to have left via free agency (or via trade due to threat of impending free agency) primarily just for the money or even the money along with some snippy comment about going somewhere else that has a “better chance to win”.
Santana and his agent used his rights under the CBA to get the most cash on the biggest stage. He’s entitled to do that. But please… don’t expect me or anyone else to ooze love for him after doing so.
Hmmmm the Yankees don’t have a bullpen either. Gotta go north of the border for a decent bullpen these days.
Jason, the vast majority of people in the world do NOT know the Pohlads, Morneau, Mauer, and Nathan AND would be or are insulted. I agree with BOP that baseball is screwing people and they forget that they are selling entertainment.
“What the hell am I supposed to do?”
Good question, sane. Most people logging in here aren’t outraged, love being blind and all. My recommendation? Be happy every time your GM sends a player packing when the demands are stupid, like Silva, Hunter, and Santana. Bitch more when the ticket price goes up. Boo the crap out of players like Aroid and Manless. And stay happy! You can do that and still have empathy, as long as you take your anti-depression meds.
Well, we were talking about Santana, birdofprey, until you took it to this level: “The bitterness extends to the whole greedy mess,”…(ect.)
So now I’m asking what makes Santana any different from other high-paid players in baseball in this regard.
You seem to want to use Santana as your ‘target’ because he disrespected us and left for more money. That’s fine, but it doesn’t change the fact that the real issue you cited (disparity of economics in baseball) applies to small market teams as well, as you even pointed out.
So to me, your real beef with Santana stems from the fact that he didn’t accept less money to stay in Minnesota and be happy here. You’re certainly entitled to that view, but I’m not bitter that he did not go that route. I’m not a Mets fan so I won’t cheer for them to win it all (just as I didn’t cheer for Garnett’s Celtics), but I’m also not bitter over what happened with Santana. Both sides did what was in their best interests and did not risk losing money.
The Mets haven’t scored more then 4 runs in any of Santana’s 7 starts and they haven’t scored more than 3 runs in any of the games they have lost when he has started. Even the Twins gave him better run support. Santana and Grienke are having an unbelievable first month of the season.
“One thing is becoming obvious, however: those who thought Santana was on the decline when we traded him in 2007 were wrong.”
yep. and i was one of them.
“I think it’s funny as hell and I hope he takes his low ERA right in to the HoF… without ever getting a ring.”
me too.
“The bitterness extends to the whole greedy mess, Jason.”
yep. and yet, as much i hate to admit it, watching high school ball or college ball or aaa ball (or town team ball, which i still play) just ain’t quite the same game …
“Hmmmm the Yankees don’t have a bullpen either.”
which underscores how difficult it will be for the twins unless they figure out how to do it from within the organization.
“Be happy every time your GM sends a player packing when the demands are stupid, like Silva, Hunter, and Santana.”
yep again (and two out of three ain’t bad).
“So now I’m asking what makes Santana any different from other high-paid players in baseball in this regard.”
but santana seemed to go out of his way to paint the twins into a corner.
“So now I’m asking what makes Santana any different from other high-paid players in baseball in this regard.”
Nothing. Why is this unclear to you?
You’re the one obsessing on Santana, don’t you see that? At least you’ve moved on from Mientkiewicz and Cuddyer I suppose…
I don’t HAVE a beef with any of the Santana’s…Carlos, Johann…ANY of them. I don’t give a rat’s a** about them.
BOP….”"”I don’t HAVE a beef with any of the Santana’s…Carlos, Johann…ANY of them. I don’t give a rat’s a** about them.”"” Well stated, my friend.
I agree with you. If they do not wear a TWINS uniform, neither do I.
Well, I watched last night’s Mets-Braves game in-part, I imagine, for the same reason Howard did…a former Twin (and 2-time Cy Young winner as a Twin) was pitching.
J-Bird… I didn’t, and the outcome of the game was not affected by my prescence or lack thereof. I watched the Weather Channel instead. 
“And stay happy! You can do that and still have empathy, as long as you take your anti-depression meds.”
Empathy and meds are both unnecesssary.
It’s just baseball.
If it ain’t fun, it has no importance at all.
And that is exactly where I will abandon it, if the fun stops.
It’s all about the pitcher’s personal stats. Santana doesn’t seem as mad that the Mets lost as he is that he didn’t get the win.
When Santana finishes the season around 15-13, the Mets fans can relish his 1.20 ERA and all the strikeouts he had.
sane…”"”It’s just baseball.
If it ain’t fun, it has no importance at all.
And that is exactly where I will abandon it, if the fun stops.”"”
Now you know where I am coming from when I call all of the naysayers on the carpet for the continuous bashing (vultures), and as a result, I get called terrible names with nasty insulting comments. But the point is, it is just baseball, supposed to be fun, and laugh and jive, and be happy.
But again, what do I know?
Can we have Johan back please? It’s nothing new though, really, he should be used to whoever he pitches for not giving him run support or what not. At least our bullpen was good when he was in Minny
Johan is truly a “pitcher” right now. Watched him for a few innings last night, and almost thought,”wow, this is Jamie Moyer with a little better velocity”. But he’s learned how to set hitters up and guess better than they do. He gave up quite a few homers for the Twins his last year here, but seems to have cut down on those. If I was a hitter, I’d just sit on the change-up and take my chances. But, I do wish him well. IMO, NO pitcher could ever be worth $150 million guaranteed, but, he just might be the guy to prove me wrong. Met him once, away from the ballpark. He was with Luis Rivas, and he seemed like a real decent guy. Wish we could’ve gotten the Red Sox offer for him. Wasn’t it Lester, Ellsbury and their hot shortstop prospect? Oh well. Hope Go-Go amounts to something someday.
Its a hard life, when every good day by an ex-Twin causes you unhappiness.
Huh. You get called names for…calling other people names.
Imagine that.
I guess I was trying to say that he made his bed, let him lay in it. It’s a pretty plush bed anyway.
What bothers me the most about all this is that I disagree with his idea that the Twins are not trying to win. He thinks you have to buy championships rather than develop from within. The Mets and Twins could not be more different in the way they try to win. Both are trying to win. I think the Twins way will tend to produce more winners than the Mets way.
A part of me hopes that the Twins win and Santana’s Mets do not just to vindicate my philosophy. It would be really sweet if the Twins beat Santana and the Mets in the seventh game of the 2010 World Series at Target Field.
I’m with JC on his 11:08 AM post. Santana got what he wanted…and now he’s crying because it’s not going how he wanted it to.
Johan treated us very well. Those that say we gave him away, well, we offered 5 years and $100 mil! The Mets just offered 7 years, and I recall that Johan was not going to sign with the Mets until he had some sense that the deal was good for the Twins, too.
The Twins can afford all the player salaries anyone else can. What they can’t do is pay eight figures for someone to sit on the bench.
For those that say that players are overpaid, what would you like to do? Pay the players $100k, max? The owners would LOVE that. The fans won’t complain about overpaid players, and the Pohlads and Seligs of the world can keep all the money. Win-win.
Johan makes an absurd amount of money. He seems to send a lot of it home to help his family and his community. He has worked hard, and is nearly impossible to replace. Cheer him on.
“Wasn’t it Lester, Ellsbury and their hot shortstop prospect? Oh well. Hope Go-Go amounts to something someday.”
Kubes, no, no, no no, no.
Let’s go over this one last time, everybody. It was Masterson, Bucholz, Crisp, Ellsbury, Lester, Lowrie, Kennedy, Hughes, Cabrera, Wayne Newton, Ray Charles, and Prince Charles.
WHAT!? No Cano? Man Twins got GYPED.
a hosken powell and twins article;
http://www.minorleagueball.com/
I’ll bet if Celine Dion had been included, we would’ve made the trade.
birdofprey you forgot Elvis
I heard the “Boss’” show wasn’t very good last night. Very unusual.
Celine Dion? Please! She’s been milking one good season (1997). Since then she’s done nothing but decline.
I remember when someone (a regular poster) said the Twins should hold out for both David Wright AND Jose Reyes for Santana, and then ridiculed me when I said it would never happen.
and Donald Trump.
and Joan Rivers
sane,
“It’s just baseball. If it ain’t fun, it has no importance at all.”
An astute philosopher on top of a baseball expert? I tip my hat to you.
“Empathy and meds are both unnecesssary.”
I agree 100% on the meds. But empathy allows me to understand the active dynamics to a persons behavior. Hence, I’m able to avoid feeling the need for meds.
“For those that say that players are overpaid, what would you like to do? Pay the players $100k, max?”
SoCal, why would this be a rational progression? The owners are “overpaid”, as are the agents, players, and everyone else, but as long as the fans support the advertisers and rotate the turnstiles, all is well. My view is this: the economics are absurd and unsustainable. It’s actually in every constituent’s self-interest to voluntarily reign in the expenses, because the revenue side of the equation is in the very early stages of what I believe will be as much as a 70% decline. Don’t buy the revenue bonds, kids. They require revenue that ain’t gonna be there at some point.
T- Ya know, you’re right. She hits the jackpot ($33 million/year) for the Titanic soundtrack, and really hasn’t done anything else. Sounds a lot like Adrian Beltre.
WJ…. Let us not forget to throw in Jesse Ventura.
Celine Dion must have been on the juice! How else do you explain the monster numbers she put up in one year!
Celine “jumped the shark” when she tried to cover an AC/DC tune.
Charlie, ‘97 was the beginning of the ‘roid era, and, funny, she’s disappeared with everyone else, i.e., Brady Anderson, Bret Boone, Big Papi, etc.
Question for the board… With some of these tremendously high contracts of some of the players, do you really think a team is on the hook for the whole thing in case of extensive injury, or do the teams pay an insurance premium to protect these investments? I don’t know, but I thought I would bring up the question.
Doctor, teams DEFINITELY have insurance on the big contracts.
All these throw-ins. All this greed.
I would hope so Kubes, so there is a hidden expense that most people do not even think about. I didn’t, thanks for the comeback. Do they go to, like, Lloyd’s of London, or something?
For people that don’t hold grudges, many of you sound pretty bitter and angry. I take no hapiness in another’s unhappiness.
Manny never dogged it on the field, his OPS the last month with the Sox was his highest OPS with the Sox.
Santana has been very gracious and supportive of his teammates all year. He’s not being a cry baby or anything else. He was disappointed he didn’t get the win, but when I see him quoted, it’s pretty much “team, team, team” type stuff this year. He gave everything he had to this team, and he left for more money. I don’t get how taht makes him someone you want to see not succeed.
“Celine Dion? Please! She’s been milking one good season (1997). Since then she’s done nothing but decline.”
Celine hearts Cuddyer.
Not really sure who the insurers are, but they’re out there.
BOP… Cuddy has better taste than Celine. hee hee hee.
“Manny never dogged it on the field”
mww, you cannot possibly be serious. Please say you are not serious.
In his two losses, Santana has 0.00 ERA. The Mets have given him no margin for error so far.
Also, I would love to ask Celine: Why the long face?
Hey… a thought here, Kubes. Is it possible that secretly the Twins are playing Cuddy and the Puntz everday almost, hoping for an injury to pay for these two, and then let the OF and IF youngsters have at it? Just a thought, as evil as it is.
look at the stats, BoP, look at the stats. His OPS that last month was over 1000. If that is dogging it, I wish one of the TWins’ OFs would dog it.
And to be clear, I said “on the field”. He may have been trying to stay off the field, but when he played, he was awesome.
minor league notes:
3B top prospect Danny Valencia has gone 7-17 over his past four games to raise his average to .298. Leads team in HR’s and RBI’s.
My favorite pitcher in the Twins system, New Britain closer Anthony Slama, gave up his first career HR last week. Right now he has 26 K’s in 15.1 IP and 5 saves.
Ben Revere has hit .398 in his past 8 games to raise his average at Ft. Myers to .308, and is second on the team with 17 RBI’s.
Carlos Gutierrez has not allowed a run in 3 of his 6 starts and also has allowed only 2 hits in 3 of those six games, good for a 1.25 ERA in 36 IP, and a 0.78 WHIP.
“look at the stats, BoP, look at the stats”
different subject, mww, different subject.
Dr., I like your take on Putzo and Rally-Killer Cuddyer. Wouldn’t mind them going on IR indefinitely.
Celine Dion’s got nothing on Dionne Warwick. Now that woman has pipes.
Man I hope Kevin Slowey doesn’t hang sliders tonight…
mww:
“And to be clear, I said “on the field”.”
I assume you’re excluding LEFT field here.
Instead of the 60-day DL, how about the 600-day DL for Nicky and Cuddy?
Celine “jumped the shark” when she tried to cover an AC/DC tune.
Wait…this actually happened? Must find audio!
Pipes. Got 3 words to say to you.
Bar bar a.
The duet from hell: Dion and Dionne.
T,
I saw it on VH1’s “Thirty Most Un-Metal Moments”, or something like that.
While I am not a believer of individual stats indicate what can happen on an unforseen upcoming situation, I just look back at last year’s outfield of DY, GoGo, and SpanMan while Cuddy was out. I thought they were a good combination.
TNG,
Slama also has a 1.53 WHIP — 13 hits and 10 walks in 15 1/3 innings of AA ball. Potential is there, but promotion ready he isn’t. (Not that you were implying that, but some others, youneverknow.)
And this is scary. <–That’s your Celine Dion cover of You Shook Me All Night Long.
Is this a full service blog, or what?
So what’s the lineup going to be tonight?
You see a big game coming from your boy, Loves Kubes? He’s due…
Here it is:
VH1’s 40 Least Metal Moments
Celine at #3 for her cover of “You Shook Me All Night Long”, )probably in reference to a personal experience with her 83 year old husband.)
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/hraorfan/vh1s_40_least_metal_moments_f1
Babs was actually kind of good looking when she was 23 or so. Now, her $$$ is the only thing attractive about her.
No kidding, Jason. Kubes needs to get back on track. My wife has seen 3 of his AB’s this year. He’s homered twice. I need to get her in front of the tube tonight.
Kubes is like Span. Kubes has big games followed by nothing. Span keeps the average up by going 4-5 one game followed by several 0-4s in a row. But Span is playing good D and getting on base by walking, so I am not complaining, that much, this time.
“”"Jason says:
May 12th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
So what’s the lineup going to be tonight?”"”
DeeTrawt going with RHP Galarraga: Here is my prediction, whether I agree or not, here it is: (Guess only)
Span CF
Tolbert 2B
Mauer C
Morneau 1B
Kubel DH
Crede 3B
Cuddy RF
DY LF
Puntz SS
P: RHP the SlowMan
“I need to get her in front of the tube tonight.”
Kubes, please re-phrase this. You’re evil.
Doctor, I think you’ll actually see this:
Span, cf
Harris, ss
Mauer, c
Morneau, 1b
Cuddyer, rf
Kubel, dh
Crede, 3b
Young, lf
Tolbert, 2b
Tolbert gets bounced to the bottom tonight.
I agree Gardy will go with DrDon’s lineup…
Kubes a big night hopefully…
Tolbert a big night hopefully…
If we get that, we should be okay.
One thing I can say about Santana, all that money definately hasn’t made him complacent. He still wants to win.
No chance, Loves Kubes.
First, you left Punto out.
Second, Tolbert will continue to get that No. 2 spot…he worked the walk in the ninth on Sunday, so he stays put.
I think Gardy’s love affair with Punto is waning. You may be right about Tolbert and Harris being flip-flopped.
LovesKubes…. both of us have interesting lineups. The reason I put Tolbert 2nd behind SpanMan…. He, to me, is a better bunter than Harris. And the Puntz is a slightly better SS than Harris, in the field. Then again, I do like your idea of Cuddy between MVP and the Kubes. Interesting……..
Kubes, please re-phrase this. You’re evil.
Post o’ the month nominee.
[…] A Fan’s View – […]
Doctor, I like Harris ‘cuz he can drive the baseball. And, while I admire Punto’s defensive prowess, I’m also tired of good defense, no-hit baseball players. Remember how fun Friday and Saturday were, hitting 7 homers?? Remember the playoff game with the Sox last year? 1-0. Remember what that one run was? Not a bloop single, followed by a bunt, followed by a seeing-eye grounder through the left side. No. It was a 450 foot mash job by Jim Thome. You need players to hit the ball out of the park 10-15 times, minimum, a year. Punto and Tolbert are NOT those players. But, they do play TWINS baseball. Yea!
“”"”I need to get her in front of the tube tonight.”"”"
“”"Post o’ the month nominee.”"”
I always loved the “pre-game pep talks”.
Thanks to those of you who tracked down that Celine Dion cover. By any chance was Pat Boone’s “Enter Sandman” (or the whole “In a Metal Mood” album) on there?
Proof of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_a_Metal_Mood
I kinda liked the Shania Twain version.
WJ… Shania Twain makes any song look good.
DrDon,
Ha! You’re right. It was more a case of looking good than sounding good.
Howard - I selectively left out the WHIP, Delaney is actually better right now in that regard because he doesn’t walk anybody. Slama strikeout ability though has allowed him to keep his ERA lower by half a run. As for the walks, I see Slama going back down toward the 3 BBs per 9IP he has been the past 2 seasons, rather than staying at his current rate of 6 per. His K numbers keep increasing at each level though, I don’t think that can be ignored.
Some mention Sean Henn from Rochester as a potential callup for the bullpen, but something about him just doesn’t impress me (probably his 7.56 career MLB ERA). The relief help this year from our own system is going to be either a starter who steps up at Rochester (Mulvey or Swarzak) or Delaney and Slama. There isn’t anyone else that is close to ready or is showing they’ve got the stuff right now.
As a side note, the Minnesota State University National Champion women’s basketball team will be throwing out the first pitch at tonight’s Twins game.
This was a story that was nearly completely glossed over by Twin Cities’ media this year. I even remember seeing the summaries of their regional semi-finals games in a Sunday Strib edition under the headline “Div. III women” which was kind of insulting. I mean it’s one thing not to cover them, but quite another to error in calling them Div. III.
Anyway, I didn’t mean to turn this into a “Outstate colleges don’t get enough publicity” rant, I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that they will be throwing out the first pitch tonight.
OK I’m not a complete expert on this, but here’s my understanding regarding insurance: Yes, teams can buy disability insurance on their players, but it’s not cheap and it doesn’t cover everything. Bear in mind:
-The premiums will depend on the level of risk a particular player presents but it wouldn’t be unheard of for the annual premiums to be, say, 20% of the player’s annual salary, AND
-The coverage won’t be for the entire annual salary, but more like 2/3 of it, AND
-beginning earlier this decade, insurance companies began limiting the maximum benefit periods to three years.
SO… for example, let’s say the Twins decide to offer Joe Mauer a 5 year deal that pays 10mm, 12mm, 14mm, 16mm, and 18mm each year of the contract. (5 years, 70mm guaranteed).
In year 1 of that contract, the most the Twins could get for insurance might be about 25mm (about 2/3 of his total salary for the first 3 years). Naturally, that amount would only be paid to the Twins if Joe gets hurt immediately before the start of year 1. In that instance, the 34mm they owe him for years 4 and 5 would be out of their pocket with no recovery.
If Joe stays healthy, the Twins will shell out far more than the 70mm in salary, they’ll also have paid out maybe as much as 15mm more in insurance premiums. (Assuming they don’t decide to accept the whole risk themselves and not buy insurance.)
If he gets hurt, they’ll collect about 2/3 of his salary for (a) the time he is disabled, (b) the remaining time left on his contract, or (c) 3 years, whichever of those periods is less.
It is not a coincidence that teams are hesitant to guarantee more than 2-3 years to some guys. Thinking about it in these terms gives us more insight in to why the Twins would only go 3 years for Torii… and just how much more risk the Angels were willing to accept by going 5.
the Twins start considering what they might offer to Joe Mauer, here are some issues they’ll have to factor in:
-Position: catcher. Have to believe catchers give insurance companies heartburn. But let’s just say they’ll charge 20% of annual salary.
-Let’s say they want to offer 5 years
JC: I’ve also heard it’s become pretty much cost-prohibitive to ensure the contracts of pitchers.
JimC…thank you for your input on the insurance issues. These are things we never see nor hear about. Lots of thought into your post. Thanks again…Doc.
Minnesota State University National Champion
GO MAVERICKS! (My Alma Matter)
T….. Minnesota State University National Champion GO MAVERICKS! (My Alma Matter). My Son’s alma matter also, plus my daughter born in Monkeytoe.
Before I go… Twins own Galarraga and Slowey has been terrible. What happens?? Tigers stumble tonight. Twins cool ‘em off, 6-3. Slowey pitches well and bullpen comes through. It’ll be a nice win!
“My Alma Matter”
Kudos to the Latin Spelling Department at your Alma MATER!
My daughter’s alma mater also and we saw the championship game on TV when we were in Minneapolis one weekend. Great basketball in a small market.
sy….good one…ok, I’ll say it this way… “Elma Matte’” Elma don’t care, but Alma Maters.
Tell Alma that it don’t matter.
I didn’t think it had been that long since I lived in Minnesota. Minnesota State? Wasn’t that the team on the tv show Coach?
That’s the skool, Dawber!
WJ….Yes, hence Minnesota State become bum-F##K U. Funny how TV sitcoms can lead people to believe things that are fiction turn into reality.
Walt,
Minnesota State, as it was depicted in Coach, was a fictitious school. At that point, what’s now being called Minnesota State, was Mankato State. Plus, the mascot in Coach as you recall was the “Screaming Eagles,” not the Mavericks. Also, they often referenced playing other Big Ten schools such as Michigan and Wisconsin, which tells me they probably were meaning to imply that “Minnesota State” was code for “University of Minnesota”.
Kinda like Danny DeVito ran an entire Taxi company. Hee hee hee.
What ever happened to Bemidji (St. Cloud, Mankato, Moorhead, Winona) TEACHERS COLLEGE?
J-Bird. There is now also MSUM… MN State U Mankato, MN State U Moorhead, etc.
Kudos to the Latin Spelling Department at your Alma MATER!
I didn’t take Latin.
…What is mind? It doesn’t matter. What is matter? Nevermind.
Jason: One thing that Minnesota State has struggled with is it’s identity. Though I partially blame the school.
It was Mankato State for a while, then it was Minnesota State University, Mankato.
Only recently it was trying to get known as “Minnesota State, Mankato”…and apparently now it’s “Minnesota State”.
Frankly everybody I know just says “I went to school in Mankato” and everybody knows what we’re talking about.
And Hayden Fox was Hayden Fry (Iowa).
“”"”"sy says:
May 12th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
What ever happened to Bemidji (St. Cloud, Mankato, Moorhead, Winona) TEACHERS COLLEGE?”"”"”
The term “TEACHERS COLLEGE” was removed decades ago. They became… “Universities”, such as Mankato State University, Winona State University, etc. Now they are gradually becoming “Minnesota State University Moorhead, Minnesota State University Mankato, etc.” The difficulty is when MSUM plays MSUM, then the confusion begins.
Imagine trying to explain to people that had never heard of (the state of) Minnesota, that Minnesota State University was fictional (at that time), but there actually IS a University of Minnesota.
B-ll Sh-t!
I saw it on TV!
Thanks Jason. I remember Mankato State. Didn’t know they changed the name.
“”"”"sy says:
May 12th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
And Hayden Fox was Hayden Fry (Iowa).”"”"”
sy, you just reminded me of a real life story…. Years ago I met a coach at the U of Nebraska. He asked me, “do you know what you get when you put a mustache on an a**hole?” I admitted, I did not know. His answer…”Heyden Fry”. I about laughed my guts out.
I heard UM-Duluth had a tough entrance exam, especially for football players. Some of the questions:
(Time Limit: 3 Weeks)
1. What language is spoken in France?
2. Metric conversion. How many feet is 0.0 meters?
3. How many commandments was Moses given? (approximately)
4. Spell — Bush, Carter and Clinton
5. Where does rain come from?
(a) Macy’s
(b) a 7-11
(c) Canada
(d) the sky
6. Can you explain Einstein’s Theory of Relativity?
(a) yes
(b) no
7. What are coat hangers used for?
8. The Star Spangled Banner is the National Anthem for what country?
9. Where is the basement in a three story building located?
10. Advanced math. If you have three apples how many apples do you have?
Ole, good, and those that fail that test go play hockey at Bemidji State.
You should be specific which Minnesota State University you are talking about. I figured out you meant Mankato when I heard Mavericks, but there is also a branch in Moorhead.
Sweet One, You mean NDSU-Eastern Shore?
Eric….do you mean NDSU East Campus????
How about the way Wiskey does it??? UW River Falls, UW Whitewater, etc…
Ole Como Va
“Best Blog Name” nominee.
That’s the only Santana song I could think of, Chief. Wanted it to sound Minnesotan.
As I said…”best blog name” nominee!
Creative. On topic. Minnesota connection. Humorous.
Well played.
Good to see all the MSU grads come out of the woodwork.It was Mankato State University when I attended.
It’s been a rich couple of years for small achool championships in Minnesota recently.Jason mentioned the Minnesota State Womens’s basketball ream.Winona St. won two Div.II Men’s Basketball championships within the last few years.Minnesota Duluth won last years Div.II Football Title,And I believe St.Johns won a title in Div.III as recently as two or three years ago,and the Rochester Tech.Community College Womens basketball team won the JUCO National basketball champioship this last year.
i agree with Jason’s comment way up on the top of the page about big profile salary’s…does johan deserve that much money/yr? probably not..nobody does really. but thats how it is in sports. it’s not johans fault that they paid him that kind of money. the twins could have afforded that but chose not to offer it. all the fans in minnesota who are bitter about santana leaving should just be thankful for the great years he gave us here. despite his frustration with the front office towards the end, he loved the minnesota twins and probably would’ve stayed for a little bit of a hometown discount. he never demanded a trade, never said he wanted out..we traded him because we didn’t want to spend the appropriate $ to re-sign him..bitter fans should target their frustration where belongs, with the front office. not with johan
Jim Crickett - from my understanding, a former co-worker of mine at an NFL team (I was NOT in his dept.) stated to me once that the salaries were insured for their full amounts but that pre-existing conditions were still applicable just as it would be for the general population. I could be wrong on this and I’ll be the first to admit it.
I recall workman’s comp issues being very prevelant a few years ago with professional atheletes, starting with a lawsuit by former Viking Rick Fenney. Those professional atheletes who did qualify for workman’s comp, received payments to those of the general population, NOT to what their income was previously. Once again, I could be wrong on this, but this is what I recall from about 10 or 12 years ago.
Sauce…… “”"”"we traded him because we didn’t want to spend the appropriate $ to re-sign him..bitter fans should target their frustration where belongs, with the front office. not with johan”"”"”
Are you willing to have a huge group of employees (trainees, farm system, minor leaguers, etc) , and pay 1 of them 20% of your total budget to keep him/her? That is what the Twins were confronted with regarding the demands to keep Johann. Sorry, but to me, that is a no-brainer.
DrDon I agree with your above statement, wholeheartedly. The Twins are known for doing this in their past, Viola, Knoblauch, Santana, just to name a few… Being a small market team, you can NOT have 20% of your payroll tied up in one player, the Twins/Brewers/Royals, etc could not handle the blow financially if that player goes down with an injury or begins to have decreased production or get suspended based on the recent developments in Dodgerland. Can you imagine if the Twins had Mannny and he got suspended?
Baldkid….I sincerely thank you for your support. But who is to blame for the market???? Check the East Coast Teams and the West Coast Teams. Agree?
I try to watch all the promising pitching match ups on mlb.tv, e.g., tonight’s Halladay-Burnett match up, and caught this one last night. From the first inning Johan clearly lacked his best stuff, but as usual was able to tough his way through where most others would have died by a thousand cuts. Lowe was on his game from beginning to end. Guy’s got a helluva sinker. Great match up, but not as good as last weekend’s 1-0 Cliff Lee-Justin Verlander game.
and Verlander won.
Cliff Lee, 2008 Al Cy Young winner. What is he now, 2-5 this year. It’s all a matter of STATS!!!!!!!!!
Baldkid, the insurance for football players is a whole ‘nuther animal, I would imagine. First of all, contracts aren’t guaranteed beyond one year so you don’t worry about multi-year payments.
As for the “pre-existing conditions”, the thing to remember is that they aren’t buying disability policies like you and I (and our employers) do. Those are relatively uniform with terms set up front by companies and filed for approval with state insurance regulators… with relatively few of the terms subject to negotiation between the parties.
The MLB disability policies are basically “single use” policies issued by Lloyds-type companies that specialize in unique risks. Their terms can be negotiated between the parties. So, yes, if Mauer’s had back issues, the company can say “we’ll cover him for 3 years for $7mm… or if we exclude back conditions, it will cost you $4mm”. Then it’s up to the team to make a choice. (Obviously those amounts are purely pulled out of thin air.)
I would bet it’s even more difficult today to get the insurance teams would want. In case you haven’t heard, a lot of the insurance companies that specialize in highly speculative risks are having a few financial issues right now.
Yeah, but Cliffie sure pitched a great game. That’s the type of baseball I like to see, which is probably why I think the greatest single game ever is Game Seven of the ‘91 Series. Verlander is a great example of how one or two simple little things in a pitcher’s delivery can make the difference between Cy Young and Sigh, done.
DrDon,
when you have(had) a player like johan on your roster, you have to realize how special of a player he is. how elite. there is no way the twins were going to offer him the money he got from the mets, but like i said, i believe he would’ve taken a little bit of a discount to stay. they are in a very similar situation now with mauer. he is an elite talent, and they need to recognize that the same way they did with morneau and keep him here
Sauce, the point I made was… how do you justify 20% of your total business expense to 1 person? Can’t happen, and I happen to feel the Mets were foolish to do just that. Amen.
DrDon, I agree with regards to the market levels set by east/west coast teams in general (I don’t know about S.D. about setting market standards 
It’s truly amazing how much big market teams can generate vs. small market teams beyond the ticket sales. The tv contracts alone are crazy, not to mention all of the other outside revenue generated. For NY to be completely equal to the Twin Cities, KC, Milwaukee, etc, their should be at least four teams there! I would LOVE to see a form of a salary cap be instituted in mlb, just so big market teams know what it’s like to scratch out a winning team and not go out on spending sprees, but I don’t believe it will happen in my lifetime…
JimCrikket, I’ll be the first to admit, football is different from baseball in many regards, the disability issues is just one of them. I was just speaking from my experience from the mid ’90’s with the NFL and the disability issues that had then.
All Right… Let’s do this… What would you rather do, if you could do either based on your own personal budget today… Would you go to a Twins game for $60, or a Yankee game for $2300????
Well it depends on who’s paying
I’m not disagreeing with you, I’m AGREEING WITH YOU!! I completely agree with you, but my point is that big market teams generate a HUGE % more of non-ticket revenue vs. small market teams in those same non-ticket revenue situations. An example of this is the New England Sports & YES networks paying the Red Sox & Yankees vs. what the Twins receive from FSN, it’s just not ticket revenues we’re talking here.
I here you, Baldkid…what it boils down to is all about money.
sad, but true, very true…..
How’s Dennys Reyes doing?
Howard,
You were right, Mauer’s return would only help a little bit.
“Since returning from the disabled list May 1, Mauer is batting .500 (18-for-36) with 12 RBI and a .571 on-base percentage.
The Twins are 5-6 in this stretch, including 5-3 when Mauer has started at catcher”
Clearly they need to find someone to help the team win.
Having the meek hitting Punto in the lineup at shortstop is going to cost the Twins some games in the standings. Gardenhire should be putting the much better hitting Harris at shortstop.
Kubes is like Span. Kubes has big games followed by nothing. Span keeps the average up by going 4-5 one game followed by several 0-4s in a row. But Span is playing good D and getting on base by walking, so I am not complaining, that much, this time.
Just to keep perspective here…
I believe both of their averages have been sustained mostly consistently hitting game-to-game.
Kubel:
• Has only gone hitless in back-to-back games three this season
• Has yet to go three games in a row without a hit
• Had hits in 6 of his last 10 games, and hits in 7 of 10 prior to that
Span:
• Has only gone hitless in back-to-back games twice this season including the BAL rainout.
• Has yet to go three games in a row without a hit
• Had hits in 7 of his last 10 games, and hits in 8 of 10 prior to that
So Kubes is, in fact, like Span… they both have been nice, consistent bats this young season.
