Another loss? All Cuddyer’s fault, I suppose
Posted on May 21st, 2009 – 9:03 AMBy Howard
Going back through some comments of recent days, you might think that Michael Cuddyer is the main reason the Twins have lost six in a row, the starters can’t locate their pitches, the bullpen has been a disaster in key situations and the little things kept getting done wrong. That’s the same Cuddyer who is batting .310/.430/.535 over his last 20 games and has the highest OPS on the team except for three guys named Mauer, Morneau and Kubel.
He has seemed to run afoul of the baseball socialists who seem to think that others should be getting a chance based on unmined potential or some of the numbers that can be found if you drill down deep enough into the statosphere. Some people seem to be making the leap that he should be benched because he’s overpaid — at least that’s the argument I’ve been extracting from a quick review of their words. I like numbers. I like the ones that I cite and I’m intrigued by the numbers that some of you bring up. But here’s a simple contention: If more Twins were producing like Cuddyer, the Twins could make even Terry Felton a winning pitcher.
And can someone remind me why I should be excited about seeing Brendan Harris’ name in the lineup? “Because he’s not Nick Punto” gets only partial credit.
That all being said, right now it’s about the pitching. The novelty of pitching with a lead last night was so overwhelming that Francisco Liriano said after giving up seven miserable runs in the fourth inning, “I think I was getting too excited.”
Let me contend that, even after giving up the game-tying home run to Paul Konerko, Liriano should have been excited to see what was coming up for the rest of the inning, because there was no way 2-2 should have become 7-2. But that excitement led him to give up a double to Alexi Ramirez (.218), an RBI single to Josh Fields (.218) and a double to the legendary Corky Miller (.219). Then, after walking Jayson Nix (.226), Joe Mauer put his glove in one place, Liriano threw to another and Jermaine Dye (previously hitless in six bases-loaded at-bats this season) cranked that slop into the bleachers.
All of the excitement about Liriano regaining velocity absolutely has to be tempered by his lack of command (11 walks in his last 15 innings. among other indicators). Throwing hard doesn’t mean squat if you can’t throw consistently to glove.
When this happens hard after another Scott Baker meltdown (What was with the Bakercam in the dugout last night?) and Glen Perkins getting Tysoned (That’s a first-inning knockout) in New York the night before, it pretty much tells me that all the lineup tweaking and fussing doesn’t mean much right now. Harris or Punto? Tolbert or Harris? More Kubel? More Gomez? More Buscher? Where’s Luis Rodriguez? Job 1 is getting the pitching staff straightened out, rotation and relief. The Twins have worked too hard in many of the games they’ve won (the comebacks against Detroit, for example) and made things worse for themselves by giving away too many games early. That’s a recipe for <500 over the course of 162 games.
But, like I said before, it must be Cuddyer’s fault.
Day game today. Maybe Nick Blackburn steps up.
154 Responses to "Another loss? All Cuddyer’s fault, I suppose"
It is Cuddyer’s fault.
Just kidding, Howard. But the fact is he is not producing like an $8.5 million player should. Last night he committed an error which extended Liriano’s first inning by about another 15 pitches. He went 1-for-4 with a 2-run homer. The homer is nice (he’s now on pace for about, what, 15 this season?), but 1-for-4 is getting old.
No, I didn’t want to focus on Cuddyer today because the pitching is so horrendous right now you don’t even want to look when the other team is up to bat. Having said that, the Godfather of 220 brought it up and I’ve been Cuddy’s biggest critic this year, so you can spin the numbers however you want, but he’s not helping us win games.
It’s not all Cuddyer’s fault (obviously), but why must the media get offended when someone dares ask for more production? Yes, more production. I don’t care what your numbers say, I want more. Give me a three-hit game once. Give me a game-winning RBI. Put the team on your back and lead us one of these nights. That’s what veterans are supposed to do. We’ve lost six straight (that’s six straight Seth, not seven, unless you can see the future). Time for someone to step up and win us one!
Cuddyer should be out in the bullpen offering advice to pitchers. But he’s not. So it is his fault.
I think the problem actually is people just don’t like him. For some reason I am never excited to see him up at the place. But the numbers don’t lie I guess.
Let’s go Burnsie! Blackburn and Slowey are the only two starters I even partially trust at this point. Hopefully this all turns around soon and we have a big June.
I wonder what Bill Smith is thinking when he checks the Rays box score and finds that Bartlett is batting way above 300………its very sad
novelty of a lead? we had the lead in 5 of the 6 games…all 4 in NY
Jason, Offended? I’m amused.
Ben, My statistical sample ignores all games in New York because of the preordained outcome. 
Twins suck.
wow Howard comes back with a vengence!!
Twin’s play in the weakest division in MLB so they will always be competitive
the pitching always seems to come around no matter how bleak things are
the question is will this team have enough time to recover in the standings once the pitching straighens out? we are at the quarter mark and it maybe getting late early!!
Guys like Cuddyer and Crede are what they are… “mistake” hitters. A pitcher who can consistently make good pitches will make hitters like them look silly.. a lot. That irritates a lot of fans, especially those that have their own little favorites (e.g. Gomez, Young, etc.)
But fortunately, most pitchers make mistakes and there’s nothing wrong with having a couple of guys around who can pounce on those mistakes. I’ve yet to see Gomez or Young demonstrate they can do so better than Cuddyer.
I suppose part of me doesn’t get nearly as upset about the Cuddyer bashing because at least it adds some variety… it’s not all-Punto-all-the-time around here.
But this situation right now is all about the pitching… and specifically the starting pitching. The bullpen has had its issues, but no bullpen in baseball can consistently be successful if every starter in the rotation is struggling to survive 4-5 innings each game.
I still maintain they need a kick in the butt more than they need to be told “you’ll be ok”. One of our catchers needs to walk out to the mound during one of these meltdowns and get physical with whatever coddled prima donna is on the hill at the time.
The Twins need a jump-start and I see the perfect opportunity: winning the series this weekend against a red-hot Brewers club.
I’m excited for today’s game. I think the Twinkies will turn it around.
It’s too bad about Breslow, who has talent and could have come around. (He sure was a good pickup last year.) Gardy even seem surprised that Breslow didn’t clear waivers, which I thought was a more than a little strange.
I think it would have been wiser to cut Ayala; the guy’s a disaster and a half.
Then again, the relief pitching (and as Howard pointed out, the minutiae of the lineup card) doesn’t mean much if the starters keep imploding.
Good analysis by JC re: mistake hitters.
By the way, the other RF last night hit a grand slam which essentially won the game for his team. Now that’s what I’m talking about.
On Liriano, Howard is absolutely right…that fourth inning didn’t need to go down that way. It’s so frustrating to see our starter get rattled after several good innings and we’ve seen that far too often this year. I was hoping The Franchise would prove he’s our ace last night…he certainly did not.
“I think it would have been wiser to cut Ayala; the guy’s a disaster and a half.”
He did pitch three innings of hitless relief last night.
By the way, do we take anything good from our bullpen last night or does it not matter when they enter the game trailing 7-2?
It would also be useful if the starting staff were instructed on the finer points of using the “black” (or preferably just off it) on the inner boundary of the plate.
Perhaps Andy should institute a fine (like Morneau did by not getting his ST work in one day)among the staff for every inning in which a hitter’s feet aren’t caused to move. The opposing hitters must feel like they are at the neighborhood batting cages when they face our darling little strike-throwing machines.
Supposedly, we draft and develop control artists. If so they should be able to locate a pitch just as easily inside as they do outside.
And, before someone says it…I’m not talking about head hunting. Something inside, just off the plate and low that makes the hitter squirm. So you might hit on every now and then. Big deal.
It’s all about the pitching, I agree. Punto could be the DH and it would be hard to complain that was the reason they lost a game at this point. It was reasonable to expect Perksins to struggle (though I thought he’d be decent this year), but Baker and Liriano are killing this team right now.
I’ve been hard on Cuddy (mostly in talking about his past and his fielding), but if he hits well, I’ll shut up about him and be glad that he’s found something that works for him.
btw, I just gotta say this for the fun of it: I thought Mauer was going to lower the ERA by a run or two all by himself. It’s not the catching, it’s not the coaching, it’s the pitchers.
Jason,
This is true, but it was a (rare) good showing; Ayala’s record may not reflect it, but he’s helped us lose a lot of games.
As for question–that’s a good point–and I don’t know how to answer it. I suppose its a good sign, but we need good starting pitching and relief simultaneously or it’s all for naught.
Fredo makes a good point, this is the problem with control pitchers that don’t have remarkable “stuff”. They can’t just use that stuff, they need to pitch, which is harder to do than to throw one or two pitches that are really good.
Maybe the Twins should bring in the team psychologist. The SP problems appear to be more mental than anything. Maybe they’re all dealing with anxiety issues ala Greinke. I am only half kidding.
after Liriano’s surgery his stuff has dropped down to the level of the rest of the staff - a #3 starter or worse
Twin’s are lacking an ACE and unless SLowly can do a Radke imitation I don’t see anyone in the current rotation that can take the bull by the horns
Let’s get Peavy before the White Sox do, let him pitch every 5th… er, every 3rd.. er… screw it just let him pitch every day.
Howard,
Way to go! The pitching staff is imploding, but all the rage here is all about Cuddyer.
Yesterday, I checked the blogs in the morning, the talk is about the awful Cuddyer. I check back after the game, and the talk is still about the vaunted Cuddyer.
The team pitching is now up to an ERA of 5.29. But Cuddyer’s .788 OPS and OPS+ of 109 MUST also be dealt with.
I’m scratching my head and thinking What…?
“Jason, Offended? I’m amused.”
Hey, I’m glad to amuse. 220 is the best baseball venue in America, bar none. We have the best group of guys and gals and the best moderator.
The $8.5 million Cuddyer is making this year comes in part from your season ticket money to sit in 220, Howard. From that standpoint, I would think you would be curious, not amused, at the questioning of how that investment is paying off.
Over the last couple years, the Twins have become what the Wolves and Vikings are to me: a team that I hope loses in order to entertain jay ferguson. I can’t hope for the great stuff off the field, like Eddie f-ing Griffin and Koren Robinson, but still in the same (Love) boat as the other two teams.
I’m so happy to see everyone using OPS, it makes me giddy, frankly. And a giddy Mike is an interesting thing indeed.
giddy? you might have to change your moniker if you’re giddy this week, mike!
Great job on Thunder Island, jay ferguson!
I checked last year after 40 games
Twins were 20-20 having lost 3 straight and scored 175 runs while giving up 180
this year..
18-22 scored 191 runs given up 213
offense is slightly better then last year and pitching is almost 1 run worse then last year at this time
Nicely done Howard. i’ve been arguing the exact points you brought up amongst my buddies for about a month. Nice to see someone in the media share the same logic.
I completely agree Howard. If the starters could somehow pitch like they did last year and the bullpen pitch like it did a few years ago we would be in 1st place by several games. This is one of, if not the, most potent offensive lineup the Twins have ever put out there (which isn’t saying much). But this is the worst that I have ever seen the pitching staff pitch. The only guys out there doing their “jobs” are Slowey and Nathan (and neither of them are allstar quality this year either).
Ok, I’m going with this name and seeing if that changes the luck of this team. Consider this a rally cap type move….formerly mike wants wins
MWW,
I would rather use wOBA and WAR, but OPS seems to be in vogue with the mainstream media and baseball fans.
I find it a little ironic, that we (twins fans) finally got what we wanted and the Twins FO handed the keys to the pitching staff to the youngsters and they have bombed. Finally, no Ramon Ortiz, No Livan, No Silva, no washed up bum whose only quality is to “eat” innings, and provide “veteran leadership” to a young staff. Finally we get what we wanted and it has blown up in our faces.
A question to stimulate discussion. MLBtraderumors has a comment about Pedro, Paul Byrd and Odalis Perez being unsigned yet. Do you think any of this guys could help us? I have the feeling that our young starters came into the season thinking that they have everything figured out and they are finding that they didn’t. Maybe some “veteran presence” is useful after all. To me, the arrogant answer of Baker the day before yesterday: ” He didn’t tell me anything I didn’t know” or soemthing like that, is very telling.
Howard, I couldn’t be happier to see an official posting from the blog master condemning the endless Punto and Cuddyer bashing that occurs day after day after day on this site.
They are both good solid major league players who go out and do their job every day with varying levels of success. Which is more than I can say about others in the lineup.
It’s becoming clear to me that the hope we all had for a Glavine/Smoltz/Maddox type legacy in our starting rotation is not going to happen. These starters seem to lack guts and heart when facing a little adversity.
And I think it will take the infusion of a veteran in this rotation to kind of raise the bar for them–they need a leader amongst the group.
So I suggest a Baker or Blackburn and GoGo trade for Peavy as a solution to this mess. Baker would be better as we could trade his salary, too and I do believe he has the talent to bounce back. But he clearly lacks the ability to be that staff leader that the Twins had hoped he’d become.
If that can’t be pulled off, I’d even be open to the signing of goofball Pedro Martinez as a way of giving these guys some kind of role model for bearing down and getting out of a jam.
It’s just so hard to watch these guys give up big innings night after night. And when they do get a decent outing the bullpen adds flames to the fire.
Has our master pitching coach lost his touch? I hope not. To me it’s more a matter of a lack of fire and focus from a group that last year was fighting for jobs and this year has found things to be a bit too comfortable.
I’m glad to see we’re at least trying to shuffle the deck a bit, but I think we need to do something radical or this season will be lost quickly.
Blackburn has been decent this year also. He has 4 starts with 3 runs or less, 3 with four (earned) runs, and one truly bad start. I’d be giddy if he did that ratio all year.
No Howard, last night’s loss was all Punto’s fault! Just kidding.
In the rearview mirror giving up Bartlett and Garza is looking more and more like a huge mistake.
Jason, what does Cuddy’s salary have to do with the TEAM’S performance on the field? Does it cause the pitchers to miss their spots? Whether or not he’s overpaid is meaningless.
Agreed Howard, I laughed so hard this summer when all these people in your blog got their panties in a bunch when Gardenhire suggested Delmon Young may get traded. It just goes to show the small minds here that get butterflies in their stomach like a school crush over under performing players like Delmon Young. They were acting like Gardenhire was trading Babe Ruth.
The sheer stupidity of some posters (mostly the longtime ones who thing they know it all and think their **** don’t stink) is so comical it is almost sad.
Columbo, one step at a time, one step at a time. There has been no discussion about BA or RBI….that’s progress.
“And can someone remind me why I should be excited about seeing Brendan Harris’ name in the lineup? “Because he’s not Nick Punto” gets only partial credit.”
Because he’s not Michael Cuddyer…?
Good point, Howard. Cuddyer hit a home run last night, and his production has been decent. I will withhold further criticism of Cuddyer until he deserves it.
But let the Liriano bashing begin! Francisco “F-Bomb” Liriano did his best Scott “Home Run” Baker immitation in the fourth inning last night. Last year it seemed to work when the Twins sent him to AAA for a couple of months. Can that idea work again?
But I guess by that logic, they’d have to send 4 of their starters and most of the bullpen down. And I don’t think Kevin Slowey can pitch complete games every night.
Cuddy’s overbloated salary lends evidence as to why he gets legitimately ripped.. a small payroll team like the Twin’s can’t afford to commit what for them is 16% of their total payroll and make a mistake with it. Cuddy has to have a much bigger impact to maximize the dollars being spent on him
JC, I’d like to see that. I’d like to see Mauer go out there, lift his mask, and have the cameras catching him mouthing “WTF is your problem today??” Barring that, I’m going to advocate what I always advocate when the team looks listless and disinterested. I’m all for a benches clearing brawl. I think it would do both the Twins and the White Sox a lot of good. Maybe Ozzie and Gardy should get together and figure out which person to plunk to clear the benches.
As for Punto, my real issue with him is that every at bat that I watch him, I see a guy who wants so badly to think of himself as a power hitter. All those fly ball outs that don’t even make the warning track are frustrating.
The Twins preach “throwing srtikes” but in watching the game on ESPN the other night, Hersheiser brought up a great point about what he saw from the Twins pitchers.Sure they get the ball over the plate,but the command of the pitches has been consistantly bad,and when you can’t back that up with consistant velocity or movement, your going to get smacked around.The Twins philosophy of building a staff around strike throwers vs. pure stuff might be coming back to haunt them.
One thing I found even more troubling was Bakers response to his little run in with the Pitching Coach (which IMO didn’t get the coverage it deserved).Baker explained what Andreson was trying to say to him but then backed it up with the classic “But it’s not like I don’t know that” line.A real mature approach from the guy billed as the staff Ace,and also payed to be.The fact is right now the Twins have a rotation of fourth or fifth starters,and until someone really steps up thats what I’ll go with.
I said this the other day and I’ll say it again just for convrsational purposes,but maybe,just maybe,the lines of communication between this group of players and coaches is getting a little stale.
“They are both good solid major league players”
this is why the discusssion is so popular. Punto is a ‘good solid major league player’?
“Which is more than I can say about others in the lineup.”
You’re right, Cuddyer and Punto, at $8 mil and $4 mil respectively, are truly professionals who are doing their jobs a lot better than, say, Jason Kubel ($2.7 mil), Delmon Young ($1.5 mil) Brendan Harris ($466k), or Denard Span ($435k).
I have not understood the Cuddyer bashing here…he is performing as well as anybody outside of Mauer, Morneau, Kubel.
How come nobody is bashing our starters. The only one who has been decent all year is Slowey.
I hate to say this given his record, (see Tampa Bay) but I think Billy Smith needs to make another trade and get a veteran starting pitcher (Peavy??) who can eat innings. That probably means giving up DY or GoGo and one of our young starters (not Slowey).
DAM
Peavy is a pipe dream. The Twins don’t trade young players for veterans.
Um, Blackburn has been doing his job also. Just gonna keep saying that.
All,
If you’re wondering why Jake Peavy’s name is coming up, it’s because the White Sox have apparently made an offer and Peavy is pondering whether to waive his no-trade clause.
Other than the fact that Cuddyer is batting .200/.200/.200 with the bases loaded and .176/.391/.176 with 2 outs and RISP, he is great. It’s not his fault. Young’s numbers are .400/.455/.400 with 2 outs and RISP and .667/.667/.667 with the bases loaded.
Overall Cuddyer has a .254 BA with RISP, Young a .333 (and I an giving BA here, because a single is all it takes and taking a walk does not make a differece) It is not Cuddyer who is the problem, I agree. He is what he is. The problem is Gardy who does not see it.
As far as the pitching goes: 10 out of 12 of the pitchers were with the team last year. All but Guerrier, regressed. If that is not an indication that the pitching coach does not do his job, I don’t know what it is… Alternative explanations might be a. mutinous team effort not to listen to Andy’s great advise, b. Infectious pitching damaging disease c. ?
This team needs change and getting an arm here and an arm there will not cut it.
OK, I don’t get it. Every once in a while, Howard (rightly) calls us out, and then suddenly a few sudden sympathizers interpret that as a free pass to label all of the blog posters as small-minded and stupid. What gives?
IMHO, Jacques Lemaire was and will be again, a great coach. But he recognized that his players just were not listening to him any more. They were tuning him out and he couldn’t fire them up. He realized that he was no longer effective in that role and that the team needs a new coaching staff with new ideas.
It doesn’t seem like the Twins are listening either and they certainly have not had a fire lit under them. They don’t even play “the Twins’ way” and have not for years. Perhaps they could benefit from a breath of fresh air and new ideas.
“just maybe,the lines of communication between this group of players and coaches is getting a little stale.”
maybe players finally bought into Gardy’s mantra that “batting your tail off” is more important then winning?
“the arrogant answer of Baker the day before yesterday: ” He didn’t tell me anything I didn’t know” or soemthing like that, is very telling.”
That is not an arrogant answer.
The analogy is when your golf pro tells you to “slow down your backswing” for the millionth time, and you tell yourself the same thing every swing you take, but still can’t can’t follow your own @#$% simple instructions.
Baker KNOWS what he is doing wrong.
Baker is TRYING UNSUCCESSFULLY to correct it.
If you don’t understand what Baker was saying, then you have never played a sport and failed before.
”He didn’t tell me anything I didn’t know” is like your teammates telling you to “throw strikes!”
To which my answers were always “No sh-t!”
or
“Why didn’t you tell me that when we started?”
or
WHAT A CONCEPT!!!”
DAM–
I’m seeing plenty of criticism of the starters. In fact, the entire pitching staff is fair game at the moment, including the closer, who Patrick Reusse had an interesting piece on last Saturday over at am1500.com.
Howard’s post suggests that criticism of Cuddyer is unwarranted and beside the point. Actually, it goes further, suggesting that critics are claiming “It’s all Cuddyer’s fault”.
I don’t remember anyone making the claim that it’s “all Cuddyer’s fault”, but to me, it’s equally silly to suggest that Cuddy deserves no criticism for his production (or lack thereof) this season.
thrylos, that same coach was the coach last year, and the pitchers looked pretty good generally. I think it is too easy to blame the coach.
Baker might be feeling the pressure of the money.
Perkins is what he is.
Slowey is coming around.
Blackburn has been decent.
Liriano does not seem to have the stuff he had before, and either learns to need to pitch differently, or will never be all that good again.
Of course, it could be the coach. All my hypotheses could be wrong.
Howard, you are a media kiss-up writer. Don’t want to get on Gardy’s wrong side now do we!
And BrentG, please explain to me how Nick Frickin Punto is a “good solid major league player”. That comment earns you bonehead of the year honors.
that should be needs to learn, not learns to need, alas.
Brett, see Roosevelt, Theodore: Man in the Arena.
nick punto doesnt belong in the majors. he cant even hit off a t-ball stand. at least harris can hit it past the pitchers mound. punto is the biggest jerk on the team. he wouldnt even sign a ball for some kids. he blongs with the saints not the twins. 4.5million a year what a waste. its time to fire gardy and billy the hut. its the same old crap with gardy. i wont watch the twins until they get the real personal in there.
CPAMAN obviously doesn’t pay much attention to Section 220.
mike,
how about Crain, Breslow, Nathan?
what is individually wrong with them?
I think it is too easy to blame the coach.
I think that the Twins are too fast to blame players. If a whole pitching stuff has regressed so much, don’t you think that the coach might be a great place to start? Or, in other words, could it be a single point of failure that is common among those 9 or 9 individual unrelated points of failure? What are the probabilities of each of those situations? (to give you an example: you got 9 light bulbs plugged in the same circuit. Some are dimming some are out. Do you think that it is more likely that the individual light bulbs are bad or there might be something wrong with the circuit?)
Jason, you’re bright enough to realize that comparing salaries of guys who are nearing or have reached the point of being eligible for free agency at the end of their current contract with those that still have several years of indentured servitude is “apples to oranges”.
You don’t compare Punto/Cuddyer salaries with Young/Span. You just don’t.
Unless you’re arguing that the Twins should let every player go that might maybe could possibly if all things go right be replaced by someone coming up from the bushes. Not that the Twins haven’t taken that approach before, of course… but when they DO that, they get blasted even worse by “fans” for being cheap.
I laughed so hard this summer when all these people in your blog got their panties in a bunch when Gardenhire suggested Delmon Young may get traded. It just goes to show the small minds here that get butterflies in their stomach like a school crush over under performing players like Delmon Young. They were acting like Gardenhire was trading Babe Ruth.
The sheer stupidity of some posters (mostly the longtime ones who thing they know it all and think their **** don’t stink) is so comical it is almost sad.
Wow. This is one of the bigger piles of crap left on these blogs in a long time. First, Gardy never mentioned anything about trading Delmon. I don’t know of any coach that would ever make a serious comment about potentially trading a player. Second, most people who come to the defense of Delmon and GoGo simply understand that their young and don’t want to give up on their potential. Over-reacting about young players struggles can lead to making big long-term mistakes.
Cuddyer is perfectly slightly above average player and seems like a real nice guy. But, I hate his contract, do feel he is blocking the playing time of promising players, and wish he was traded to fill an immediate need.
The daily OF of Young, Gomez, and Span, seemed to work just fine last year, and I was looking forward to what that combo could do with another year’s experience under their belt.
It’s the doorbells fault the lights are dimming. Trade the doorbell for a better doorbell.
thrylos, it is certainly plausible that there is a single point of failure. I 100% understand why you are reaching the conclusion you are reaching. I just have a different hypothesis.
Howard: Thank you for the blog ass-chewing. I have for two months now asked the bitchers to stop the play by play bellyaching, and all that has happened is I have been called nasty names and insulted to no end. I, like you, am sick of the bashing. Good grief people, we all want the Twins to win, how about showing a little pride and class on the blog. Doc.
Eric,
I’m sorry, I don’t read books by people who wear monocles. Kidding.
Yeah, I know Teddy’s book, and yes, I know critics don’t mean much. It’s just he was rude and I hate when people are rude.
b
thrylos, good post on those Cuddy/Young clutch numbers. Very interesting, thanks.
The daily OF of Young, Gomez, and Span, seemed to work just fine last year
The starting rotation worked fine last year, too.
The real problem is Bill Smith for not addressing our bullpen issues and making the Delmon Young trade. He’s been terrible as GM and my guess is that if he keeps this up he’ll be out in two years.
Are the White Sox getting Peavey?
Just for the record, Cuddyer isn’t making $8.5 million this year. So, that’s one thing.
Second, blog commenters are constantly talking about throwing money at people. There were a lot of people here willing to give Eric Gagne a couple years and four million year. Others would have been thrilled if the Twins had given Brandon Lyon three years and four million a year. People here were distraught that Cleveland got Mark Derosa. We want the Twins to throw money at mediocrity all offseason, and then when they sign one of their own players to a little more than maybe he deserves, we bash that player. Can’t have it both ways.
Sane again you feel the need, because you are apparently a coach, to to try and teach us something .Spare me.I played,I’ve coached and so have you, BFD.The “you must never have played a sport or failed” line is pure BS.
It’s not what Baker said it’s the way he responded to his coach.IMO (and thats all it is) Anderson and Gardy have played the good cop routine to often.Andy decided to play the bad cop,which I happen to feel was needed and long over due.The pats on the ass and “we’ll get after ‘em next time” don’t seem to be working.
DrDon–
I didn’t read Howard’s blog that way (calling for an end to all individual player criticism). I read it as specifically calling for an end to Cuddyer-based criticism (or belly-aching, if you prefer). Howard himself is not shy to point out when a player doesn’t seem to be getting the job done, but he and some of us in blogville have a difference of opinion on Cuddyer. You are right that class is always appreciated, though.
JC–
The salary comparison was merely a supplement to an earlier claim that Cuddyer and Punto were solid major leaguers, unlike others in the lineup. I understand how salary works in MLB. You are right on the apples / oranges issue. That said, there are plenty of $8 mil players in baseball who put up $8 mil numbers. We are the consumers; we absolutely have a right to bring up salary when analyzing team components.
sane, maybe arrogant was a too harsh word. But you bring up something that I was thinking and I did not express well. It seems to me that Baker and Liriano don’t know what they have to change. (I don’t know either, but I am just a fan). That is why I was suggesting some more experience can help. Probably coming from a collegue rather than from the coach. Just a thought
Well I am so glad that the season is done so we have someone to blame, wait we only have played 40 some games, which means we have how many left??? I still think Cuddy’s to blame, but what do I know, I want a kid to play that swings at the first pitch with bases loaded, after the pitcher just walked 2!
the Cuddyer extension was a bad move. However, it was based as much on his ability as on Public Relations. For good or bad, after the Santana trade and Hunter leaving, the Twins’ brass felt that they needed a “franchise face”. The rolled the dice with Cuddy who is chatty. So think of the money he makes as half of it on the field and half of it as commercial and spokesperson royalties. (I am not saying that it was a good move, I am just suggesting that there was more than performance that led them to that extension…)
adjacent,
Fair enough.
I think that Baker and Liriano have been told repeatedly what corrections are required.
They are likely trying to make those corrections (unsuccessfully) and if they say “it’s nothing I haven’t heard before”, they are making a simple statement of fact.
Doc, you just can’t take this stuff so seriously. You need to come to these blogs purely for the entertainment value, not for anything real or meaningful. Expecting anything resembling “class” on a blog is kind of like watching pro wrestling and expecting a fair fight. It’s not gonna happen and you’ll just drive yourself nuts if you take it seriously.
I love to read the monday morning quarterbacking (and I admit enjoying in participating in it at times)!
For example:
T Ryan refuses to renegiate with Santana 2 years before free agency… then dumps the mess in Smith’s lap. No way he gets anything close to market value so now, with perfect hindsight, people mock the deal he made for Gomez, et. al.
At the same time, people hollared about how the Twins needed to loosen their death grip on all their young pitchers and trade for some offense. He does just that. But of course, in hindsight, nobody thinks Young and Harris were worth giving up Garza and Bartlett.
Also at the same time, “fans” echoed the tripe from Torii and Johan about how the Twins were always playing for “next year” and letting veterans go. They give nice big contracts to Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Nathan, Kubel and Baker (and a pretty small one to Punto) and the reaction is to cherry-pick one or two of those and say “GEEZ why are you paying THOSE guys?!”
Let’s not forget all the screaming about how guys like Livan kept the young pitchers from getting their opportunities and how, given the chance, they’d be the best rotation in baseball. Well… maybe some day.
Everyone wanted a bullpen arm and a 3B this offseason. They brought in Ayala and Crede. There were a lot of options and it’s always going to be easy to go back and say, “look what that guy is doing… we coulda had him instead!”. But there are also a few options that had support around here who AREN’T doing so well.
Point is… hindsight is perfect. But this organization has been doing pretty much exactly what a significant number of people around here say they want them to do. That will never silence the critics, of course, until every move made works out perfectly for the Twins.
Don’t forget about Perkins and his choice to say when his arm hurts and when it doesn’t.
It’s pretty sad when Nick Blackburn is our best starter. I’m not trying to take anything away from him, because he usually does a decent job, but he’s very ordinary.
Has anybody had the guts to get on the Ayala bashers this morning? I was laughing last night because I was/am all for getting rid of him. BUT, 40% of the posts yesterday said something along the lines up “I’m fine with Breslow being gone, but Ayala should have left first.” Then he comes out and throws 3 shutout innings…it’s just kind of funny!
Jason at 9:11 pretty much said it all.
I am sitting here trying to remember the last time Cuddayer had a hit that put us ahead, that he hit a HR when we wern’t already down by 3 or 4, or how about a walk off? Hope there are some out there I just don’t remember.
That said, the pitching must improve, if it doesn’t, it will be a long season.
how about a trade scenario:
here is a pitcher’s numbers this season and last:
2009: 4.32 ERA, 1.240 WHIP, 9.0 K/9, 2.50 K/BB
2008: 4.28 ERA, 1.454 WHIP, 8.0 K/9, 1.91 K/BB
a. do you think that he could help the Twins?
b. what would you think is a fair trade for this pitcher?
The Bruins are out of the playoffs; HS lacrosse season is over- I’m really ready to get excited about the Twins now- oh crap!
“I have been called nasty names and insulted to no end”
So were Lincoln and Churchill.
Take it like a man, and take it as a compliment.
Howard and Gardy have man crush on Punto.
I didn’t read EVERY response but I will jump on the “Cuddyer’s Fault” bandwagon. If he would have gotten off to red-hot start we could have thinned out the overloaded OF and got better pitching in a trade. The White Sox are getting Jake Peavy for Clayton Richard and Aaron Poreda. Who? That’s what I said, two guys named “Who?”
The White Sox are getting Jake Peavy for Clayton Richard and Aaron Poreda.
plus 2 more players…
who?
Richard is probably the equivalent of Swarzak and Poreda is a LH starter forment #1 pick who is better than any starter the Twins have in the minors right now…
plus 2 players and unless they are named, hard to tell…
sane (at 10:21am)
“That is not an arrogant answer” Who better to “teach” us about arrogance!Have a great day.
“thrylos98 says:
May 21st, 2009 at 8:51 am
And what you are saying is probably not enough for what the Pardes want for Peavy. They want pre-arbitration eligible young talent. So think Revere + Hicks + Delaney + Slama + Slowey and toss it Wilson Ramos.”
Amazing that you could be THAT WRONG, thrylos98.
Why did the White Sox get a better deal?
Why did the White Sox get a better deal?
not sure what the deal is yet. But Richard and Poreda + 2 players does not sound that great, unless you know who the 2 players are… let it be final and then we’ll talk.
plus:
3.94 ERA, 1.563 WHIP, .313 OPP BA, .839 OPP OPS
Peavy’s numbers against AL teams last season…
The Pro From Dover,
sane (at 10:21am)
“That is not an arrogant answer” Who better to “teach” us about arrogance!”
Maybe the guy who calls himself “The Pro”.
Thry, Buster Olney made it sound like a steal by getting minor leaguers and a former first pick who is a bust and the ChiSox didn’t have to give up Beckham. I don’t think he meant the soccer player, must be a prize Sox prospect.
Poreda is, however, a former #1 draft pick… and reports indicate there will be 4 players in the deal for Peavy. Just being fair, here.
It sure would have an impact in the AL Central race but I don’t think anyone can assume that just because Peavy might consider a trade to the BitchSox, he would have also approved a deal to Minn.
Here is a list of the Sux top 10 prospects according to BA:
Poreda is #2, Richard is #3… wait to figure out who the 2 other players are and see how they fit in that list.
FYI, #2 for the Twins is Revere and #3 Ramos, according to BA.
settle down everyone the Peavy to White Sox deal isn’t done yet Billy will swoop in with a counter deal!!
It’s nothing more than a line from one of my favorite movies, M*A*S*H.And I happen to live close to Dover, Mn.Sorry.
Seriously, have a good day,maybe the Twins will pull one out today.
Beckham. I don’t think he meant the soccer player, must be a prize Sox prospect.
Beckam is a SS, their #1 pick last draft, who some claim is MLB-ready. He is currently in AA
but look at Peavy’s numbers against the AL last season, look at his splits away from Petco, look at the numbers of pitches he threw the last 5 years and try to roll that into a bargain….
JimC, not all of the criticisms came after the fact.
As for Ayala, come on. People were calling for him to sign players that were good last year, not scrap heap players. That’s a bad example. As a matter of fact, its not cherry picking at all. It is the kind of move many said they had done in the past, and should not do anymore.
Crede was signed, as we all know, after they let 4-6 other 3B sign, and he had no other options. It’s not like they broke their mold on that one either. That said, it was a good business decision, and a risk worth taking, that so far has not panned out.
thrylos you have to admit if we got him we all would be cheering quite loudly
I’m no expert (though I try hard to pretend I am), but if Beckham was last year’s #1, I don’t think he can be traded until 1 year after he was drafted (or is it 1 year after signing?). If so, I’d watch for the infamous “player to be named later” provision in the deal. That could easily be Beckham or someone else drafted last year.
Pro,
No problem.
Adjacent thought it was an arrogant answer.
I thought it was not an arrogant answer.
Two differing opinions.
Maybe Adjacent was right and I was wrong.
That wouldn’t surprise me.
“”"”"sane says:
May 21st, 2009 at 11:03 am
“I have been called nasty names and insulted to no end”
So were Lincoln and Churchill.
Take it like a man, and take it as a compliment.”"”"”
Thanks sane, I will remember that. As a result, I have been complimented a lot on the blogs.
thrylos you have to admit if we got him we all would be cheering quite loudly
Not me.
Frankly, I’d rather have Pedro than Peavy.
2008 against AL:
Peavy: 3.94 ERA, 1.563 WHIP, .313 OPP BA, .839 OPP OPS
Martinez: 5.40 ERA, 1.543 WHIP, .267 OPP BA, .670 OPP OPS
plus $57-75M + 4-5 players for Peavy, instead of $5 for Martinez.
sane, Peace! We all get a little high on our horses some times and I lead the herd quite often!
mww (or is it migros?):
I think it’s perfectly fair to say we didn’t get the RP in Ayala that we’d have liked and my ‘cherry picking’ reference dealt with picking out a couple of contracts among the several that were handed out to guys who had been contributing, rather than letting them play out their existing deals and letting them walk.
Were objections raised at the time all of these deals were made? Yes, probably. But my point is simply that EVERY action (or decision not to act) is going to have detractors… especially when/if they don’t pan out perfectly. But the organization IS moving in directions that many fans have been clammoring for, even though we’ll continue to second guess every decision long after it’s made.
thrylos,
who is the pitcher in your scenario?
Fair enough, I do think that Smith has tried to be much more proactive than Ryan, just that so far I’ve not agreed with any move other than Crede when it was made (not counting the contract extensions, the only one there I didn’t like was Cuddy’s).
I hope they win tonight, and the rally name change works, and it is migros!
Peavy seems to have been pretty selective regarding who he will prospectively pitch for during this ongoing trade debacle but Old Man Father baseball Gammons says he thinks it will go through. So it seems now every team in the division has a legitimate ace except the Twins!
How long is Peavy signed for? Given his stated preference to pitch in the NL, the Sox can’t assume he’ll stick around any longer than the remaining portion of his current deal.
who is the pitcher in your scenario?
Peavy.
His numbers outside Petco the last 2 seasons:
2009: 4.32 ERA, 1.240 WHIP, 9.0 K/9, 2.50 K/BB, OPP OPS .695
2008: 4.28 ERA, 1.454 WHIP, 8.0 K/9, 1.91 K/BB, OPP OPS .784
are very close to those of this pitcher (other than K/9, which unfortunately for Peavy do not help his OPP OPS) :
2009: 4.38 ERA, 1.399 WHIP, 4.2 K/9, 1.64 K/BB, OPP OPS .728
2008: 4.05 ERA, 1.360 WHIP, 4.5 K/9, 2.46 K/BB, OPP OPS .771
who is the second pitcher?
Not other than Nick Blackburn.
So. How much do you want to give up for a pitcher slightly better than Blackburn? And how much do you think he can help?
Minnesota ‘nice’ sports teams don’t cut it. Time to start brush backs and hit batters(including jerks like ARod).Players not just coaches kicked out of games.Some team leaders not taking crap from the opposition and showing some fire.In a bench clearing brawl I bet you wouldn’t see a half dozen players take the field. The rest would be scrambling to get into Mauer’s equipment or grabbing a bat.Both the Twins and Timberwolves lack physical and mental toughness needed in pro sports today.
Brushbacks and throwing at hitters is completely cowardly and immature
Rick… I have an idea… Let’s incite a riot, that will bring the Twins around.
Cuddyer can have his moments. You can post his numbers now, but post them again when he hits the two month slide where pitchers throw nothing but curveballs at him. He is too inconsistent. Trade him for some pitching relief where the Twins are in desperate need.
That Santana deal isn’t looking so good right about now.
How long is Peavy signed for?
2012 with a 2013 option that likely has to be picked up to waive his no-trade clause
Cuddyer - the criticism is earned. Buffalo is right. I explain it like a $7.99 Mediocre Pitching Buffet that Cuddy feasts at, but they stop serving after 6 games and then close down for 2 months.
Peavy is obviously never coming to the Twins and clearly looks like he’s going to the White Sox. That said, I don’t care what stats you want to jigger up I’ve seen both of them pitch and Nick Blackburn is most certainly no Jake Peavy.
It’s been observed often by baseball experts that pitching is by far the most influential factor on a team’s record. That said, the Twins baseball supposedly integrates contact pitching with excellent fielding and timely hitting. In order for such a system to work, all the facets must operate together. If fielders start botching plays, if the catcher doesn’t block bounced pitches, if batters can’t bunt, then the whole system breaks down. That’s why it is better for Twins players to emerge after several years in the minor leagues. Even talented players like Denard Span need to learn the fine details of the game if they are to contribute to a successful Twins team. That’s why Jose Morales didn’t replace Mike Redmond. That’s why Alexi Casilla needs to spend time in Triple A. That’s why Gomez and Young both should spend time in Triple A. Twins teams depend on every single player being smart and well-trained…. People used to say that Minnesota was a farm team for the New York Yankees. That should be seen as a great compliment, because players brought up through the Twins system are renowned for being complete, team-oriented players. I wish I could say that about today’s Twins, but some of them are missing skills they should have picked up in the minor leagues.
Twins Pitching staff = Launching pads.
further explained if you click my name.
MLB is a farm system for the New York Yankees.
People actually read howard’s blog? I didn’t know that. His qualifications are being a season ticket holder. Pretty good gig.
You’re suggesting someone needs certain “qualifications” to have a blog?
That’s pretty funny.
If you don’t like the way someone runs their blog, the answer’s pretty obvious. Don’t bother reading the blog.
There are only about 50 other Twins-centric blogs to choose from.
Well he has been a writer for the Strib and was the Twins official scorer at one point. He knows what he’s talking about.
Lew Ford,
it was before your time, but Howard was the Twins’ beat writer during their world championship years…
And he welcomes ‘poetry!’ Its nice to read about sports without being bombarded by testosterone once in awhile.
Major league teams don’t typically expect huge offensive numbers from their shortstop. They want someone with good range, someone who makes the plays they’re expected to make, and perhaps a few that are spectacular.
They want somebody who is prepared to play and healthy day in and day out.
A good shortstop handles foul and fair pop flies that otherwise might fall as bloop singles or missed opportunities for outs.
Sometimes they got and give you a shot of offense–that’s a bonus unless you’re lucky enough to have a Jeter on your team.
The shortstop is an important, positive influence on his club.
If a player can do all of these things he will have a “good solid” major league career for several years. And major league players who last that long eventually make more than $2 million per year.
That sounds like Nick Punto to me and if that makes me “bonehead of the year”, I accept the award with honor.
The Twins couldn’t score a second run in the first inning with runners on first and third and 1 out…blame in on Cuddyer!
Howard, do you see and hear them??? bzzzzzzzzzz They are after you now.
Howard, your boyfriend flied out on the 2nd pitch with runners on 1st and 3rd.
Wow. Criticism is apparently for players only. Sinker calls out a few opinions and some of us can’t counter-argue well enough to avoid simple insults.
tahauge,
That’s life in a free country.
Jason,
Did you pay off Betemit to try to take out Punto with that throw on the bunt?!?
“some..can’t counter-argue well enough to avoid simple insults”
Howard,
Just send those jack@@##ses, each an email and attach a pipe bomb.
Lew Ford,
I’d say you had a pretty good gig too. Your qualifications were playing world of warcraft and meeting internet n00bs IRL. Pwned.
JJ
Cuddyer is only 1 for 2 with 3 RBI…lame
Wow, teeing off against somebody that doesn’t have a TC on their hat. Imagine that. Even Twins pitchers can work with an 8 run lead.
It’s all Blackburn’s fault.
It’s all Liriano’s fault.
It’s all Baker’s fault.
W. Blame it all on Jerry White.
I think you get the message.
Just a lousy single for Cuddyer in the 4th? Bench his butt.
Thrylos, Pedro (30 MLB teams have passed on him already) Martinez over PEAVY? Give. me. a. break. You must be smarter than every MLB front office advocating this. I’ll give you the Padres and maybe the Pirates. But come on. You are not.
Funniest thing I heard, on the radio, on the way back into the office from lunch.
The throw hit Punto in the head. He’ll get credit for a sacrifice….
Is 98 a front office guy?
While I don’t particularlly like Cuddyer, the man has been hitting. I think its unfair to say he is a much better player than Young when they are VERY similar. Both high draft picks, struggled early in their careers, etc. Cuddyer didn’t break out until he was about26-27, so lets table the “Delmon is terrible, Cuddyer is awesome” talk for a while.
Not that much of that was relevant, just something I’ve had on my mind for a while.
Who else loves having Mauer in the second spot in the order?
“The throw hit Punto in the head. He’ll get credit for a sacrifice….”
Ha! Thanks for the report mmmarkiep.
“The throw hit Punto in the head. He’ll get credit for a sacrifice….”
Sometimes you have to take one for the team.
make it 20-0.
Punto is lucky. He rolls 0-5 and his Mendoza only drops 5 points.
Someone way up the thread asked what Billy Smith thought when he read the paper and saw Bartlett batting .350. A) Smith doesn’t read the sports section B) Unless it is talked about at the Sizzler buffet line he hasn’t heard C) he is busy working on another star player (Mauer) for a bag of rocks trade like he made for Santana. he has a whole year to come up with something horrible. He can do it!
Just to be fair, I’ll blame Cuddyer for this win, too! The Twins never would have made it to 20 if he wasn’t in the lineup.
Crain,
We all know Billy Smith can’t read.
