What changes would you make?
Posted on June 1st, 2009 – 10:34 AMBy Howard
The Twins are off today after a 20 games-in-20 days stretch of soggy, inconsistent baseball that ended with a 10-10 record. While the Twins are only 4 1/2 games out of first place, the frustrating thing is that they (and the White Sox) are the only teams in the AL Central that are really underperforming, based on what should be expected of them. In other words, if the Twins played for the first two months as they “should have,” even with Joe Mauer out of the lineup in April, I think they’d be leading the division.
Such starts aren’t uncommon to the Twins, however, so giving up and turning your attention to the NBA draft or the Vikings’ quarterback situation is only for the faintest of heart right now.
But teams don’t contend for championships when they throw to the wrong base (Brendan Harris on Saturday), forget to cover a base (Jose Mijares on Friday), take miserable at-bats (Delmon Young and Nick Punto on most days), don’t battle through tough innings (Francisco Liriano and Scott Baker in most of their starters) and don’t stop passing off reserves as starters on a daily basis (the middle infield).
What to do heading into June? Blog posts and comments often play to the dramatic, with their words sounding more like infomercials than anything that could reasonably happen. Trade Cuddyer for San Francisco’s Matt Cain! Buy Jake Peavy a huntin’ dog and convince him to come here! Dump swine, get pearls!
However, given baseball’s reaction to the economic climate, I wonder whether more useful players will be on the market as the season goes on, as more teams look to replace higher-paid players with youngsters who may have a higher upside. If that’s the case, the Twins ought to be aggressive players in that market. The Luis Castillo type of fix (when the Twins picked him up for very little before the start of the ‘06 season) is what I’m talking about, with an eye toward the middle infield, bullpen and probably a fifth starter.
I’d like to think the rotation’s problems will work themselves out, but I’m not seeing a scenario in which Liriano, Baker and Glen Perkins all get their stuff together — and, as good as they were, I’m not yet buying Anthony Swarzak’s two starts as a sign that he’s ready for full-time prime time. Give that one another month of starts before making a conclusion.
In the meantime, however, here are a few things that I think ought to be done:
*Settle on Span-Gomez-Cuddyer as the regular outfield for now and acknowledge that Gardy meant what he said in Fargo last December. Gomez has been maddening in some different ways than he was last season, but in this lineup, the Twins can afford to have his center field excellence in the ninth spot in the lineup batting eighth or ninth. For a detailed breakdown of Delmon Young’s production this season (May numbers: 0 extra-base hits, 3 walks, 22 strikeouts, 59 plate appearances), you should read Aaron Gleeman’s current post.
*Gardy should swallow hard, call Brendan Harris into his office and say, “Brendan, you’re my starting shortstop. Play hard, play loose and play smart and I suspect you can fill that role and give the front office one (and me) less thing to worry about.” Harris has turned into the best available option when you combine offense and defense, and the Twins will have to simply swallow his lack of range. I’d like to see what he does when he knows the manager has his back. (Of course, keep in mind that you’re-my-guy promises are null and void if something better is available on the market.)
*Attach Rod Carew to Delmon for a week of hard-core instruction focusing on the strike zone. Follow the cliche model of the coach who moves in with the new quarterback and have them talk about nothing but hitting and life. This has been a terrible season for Young in every way possible and the best thing to do is to make him as useful as he can be right now and think about the long term. Young is out of minor-league options so the “send him down” argument doesn’t work. At best right now, he’s a DH against some left-handed pitchers.
*If Liriano is dropped from the rotation when Perkins returns, it won’t be the end of the world. The Twins almost certainly will need a spot starter or a rotation replacement for some reason (weather or health) down the road and Liriano would make a good option. In the meantime, let him throw hard for an inning or two at a time in relief. He won’t regain his 2006 form, but something close to his 2008 numbers would be nice.
*Keep Span-Mauer-Morneau at the top of the order. Mauer isn’t going to hit 11 home runs per month, but I’ll bet on his on-base percentage being closer to .500 than .350 after the final 110 games are played.
386 Responses to "What changes would you make?"
I’ll address Howard’s “changes” in turn. As a general matter, I mostly agree with all of them. Convincing management is another issue…
Outfield of Span / Gomez / Cuddyer: This one has to be a revolving situation. At this moment in time, it appears the above trio is the way to go. But what happens if Cuddy reverts to April form? What happens if Go-Go reverts to April form? This is the one area where a continued platoon is probably in order.
“Brendan, you are my starting shortstop.” Only if the Pope converts to Lutheran, Howard. I want to point this out about Harris, though. The week before JimCrikket reported from Ft. Myers, my wife and I were down there. I saw Brendan warming up before one of the games and thought to myself, “this might be the last time we see him in a Twins uniform. What a shame.” Brendan narrowly avoided being optioned or cut just before Opening Day. In the end, Tolbert was sent to Rochester. What we knew (or should have known) then was Harris is a better player than Nick Punto. What we know now is Harris is the best player of the Harris / Punto / Casilla / Tolbert / Buscher fivesome. So yes, absolutely, now that Punto is on the DL with a sore batting average, Harris should assume the SS role and be given it for good. Wishful thinking, though.
Whatever happens with D Young this year, we should not give up on him. I wouldn’t trade him. Send him to Rochester, maybe (heck, they need hitting help anyway), but don’t give up on him yet. He’s one of the rare youthful bats we have.
Agree on Liriano. I would like him to remain a starter, but remember, Johan was in the bullpen for a while before he became Johan, too. If you stick him in the bully and groom him to be our closer in 2011, that wouldn’t be all bad.
Finally, Gardy, I don’t expect you to read my posts, but PLEASE READ HOWARD’S: “Keep Span-Mauer-Morneau at the top of the order. Mauer isn’t going to hit 11 home runs per month, but I’ll bet on his on-base percentage being closer to .500 than .350 after the final 110 games are played.”
Beautifully put. Plus, I want our best hitter in the 3-hole 
By the way, Howard, me and my guys will be in K.C. the weekend of Aug. 21-23, I respectfully would request the ‘honor’ of doing some guest blogging that weekend. I’m hoping both teams will be in contention. For those who haven’t gone, K.C. is an unbelievable baseball experience.
Yes, thank you Howard. Gomez needs to be the starting CF on this team. He adds a natural spark, has made some slight progress in quality at-bats, and they can’t afford to keep his defense on the bench.
Gleeman is absolutely spot-on about the value of Young right now. At least with Gomez you know you are getting speed and defense.
Sending Delmon to AAA is not an option because he is out of options. Blame it on the Rays signing him to a major-league contract when he was drafted - his three options were used up. Getting him to AAA would involve sending him through waivers, which would not happen. Someone would snap him up immediately.
Until the Twins wake up and do something about sending up 9-12 automatic outs to the plate every game, their record isn’t going to be much different the rest of the year. Mauer, Morneau, and Cuddyer can’t carry the team every game. The bottom third of the order needs to come through a few times a week if the Twins are going to be serious contenders.
I agree on the outfield!
I agree on DY, more Carew and less Oliva, also, would it kill Gardy to play him in Right when he does play? use his arm and expose him less.
I’m more worried about Baker than Liriano. Liriano has a little more on the FB and the slider, is younger and cheaper. Put him in the bullpen for a bit. What to do with Baker if he can’t correct?
Harris should be shortstop until further notice.
The top of the lineup should remain also.
i pretty much agree with all of it.
I’d add:
send Buscher to AAA….. callup Morales or Hughes.
Agree with everything with the possible exception of moving Liriano to the bullpen. I’d rather send him down to get his confidence back up. And I’m also not convinced that Glen Perkins or Anthony Swarzak will be better options.
Id like to see an avg. - major move for the middle infield, pending who is available and contract details. I dont want to throw out names, but someone with potential all-star talent.
Then I say shore up the bully with at least 2 major arms. That could be more difficult because every team always needs a little bullpen help, right? But Thatd be nice.
Beyond that, I think we’re good.
I like most of your thinking Howard and think you’re spot on with the outfield but I’ve got an idea here. It looks like Cleveland is having way more trouble with injuries than they ever thought they would with Grady Sizemore going on the DL. What are the chances that we could swing a deal with the Tribe to get Cabreara to play 2nd base or is it too early for Cleveland to start the fire sale? I would like to see Casilla at ss for awhile and see what happens with him with Harris playing 3rd in Crede’s absence. I’m not against Harris at short but I wonder if Casilla might not have more of a comfort level at SS and then maybe it would help his batting avg too - lots of maybes but who knows.
Cleveland isn’t going to trade a guy like Cabrera in the division that is under control for cheap.
Jason, I’m in KC Aug 21-23 also. I haven’t been to Kauffman since the re-model. Can’t wait.
I just wonder how Delmon’s mothers’ illness affected him, I think you need to give him a little time to get right. Although I would play Gomez-Span-Cuddyer, seems to me that Gomez is a guy who needs at bats to keep growing. I also would search for a middle infield option, not sure who that would be but they are out there.
Optimistic Guy, it would be cool to have a 220 tailgate party at Kaufmann that weekend!
Howard, I also agree with just about everything you said. I’ve literally been to the point of throwing my remote at the T.V. when I see Punto & Punto Jr. (Tolbert) in the same lineup and have even discussed bringing signs to Twins games that simply read “let Harris play” with my friends. The company man approach of sticking to the “hustle” players who came up through our organization needs to die a quick death.
Gardenfire needs to use his best players regularly, and Harris is our best middle infielder presently hands down. Will he hit .300? No, but I’ll take a guy who hits .260 to .270 with 10 or so bombs and 60 or so RBI out of the 7 / 8 hole anyday. It’s a no-brainer, in my opinion.
Jason:
Well thought out and written. You are on top of it…..You should be the guest blogger in KC.
I agree, Harris should be the SS even when Punto returns and Punto should be the utility guy.
Jason,
Did you miss this part
“Young is out of minor-league options so the “send him down” argument doesn’t work.”
thanks Rocky but to be fair, Howard was on top of it…the rest of us are pretty much piggybacking.
To my knowledge, no other media member has so much as asked Gardy if he’s considered any changes at shortstop.
Howard,
I’d look to trade for a hard throwing starting pitcher. I think the Twins have too many pitchers with similar stuff.
They should have one starter that can regularly hit 95 on the radar gun.
Harris should start. Right now, his bat makes up for his defensive shortcomings.
Busher needs to go and Morales needs to come up. At this point, I think Morales would be better at third than Busher.
I like the idea of Liriano going into the Bullpen. How about trying to make him the 8th inning set up guy?
Folks,
Question for you: If you call up Morales for Buscher when Punto is healthy, are you willing to go with 5 infielders? (Tolbert gets sent down.) Crede’s ongoing health issues and rest needs concern me. I was wrestling with that one and dealt with it by not weighing in for now, or suggesting Cuddyer as an extra infielder.
I read it and do not question its accuracy, minntwins5, but that seems odd to me. He wasn’t optioned in 2007 or 2008. Is it because he’s played two full seasons in the Big Leagues?
Howard, I think you go with 5 infielders until someone who was sent down actually steps up their game. Rather have them hit .230 at Rochester or at Minny? As long as the 5 we have playing get a hit every once in a while, I say we give it a shot
Howard,
I’d work out Morales at third base, if need be. Morales can’t be any more a defensive liability than Busher, and, until proven otherwise, he’s got a much better bat.
Is there any word on how serious Cuddyers finger injury is? Think he’ll be able to play tomorrow vs Cleveland?
• Send Young to AAA and give Dustin Martin a shot.
• Make Punto a full-time bench player and bring in a veteran middle infielder like Ray Durham.
• Make Brendan Harris the full-time shortstop.
• Make Matt Tolbert another full-time bench player.
• Waive Casilla and see if we can get anything in return.
• Give Kubel more playing time in the field.
• Trade for a veteran setup man.
• And most importantly, inquire on Barry Bonds!
I answer “yes” to Howard’s question and here’s why:
We’ll have two other guys who can play third base when and if Crede is not available (Harris and Punto). Casilla also has experience at shortstop.
So the bottom line is although technically you will only have one back-up infielder, you should be able to survive it in cases where players need time off and are not put on the DL. The back-up first base position is also not an issue since both Cuddyer and Punto can play 1B.
What does it all mean? Even if Harris replaces Punto as the SS, you can expect to see LNP in the lineup 80 percent of the time, although at varying positions. Still, I would call up Morales and send Buscher packing.
Leave Morales at AAA for the season. I know his bat would be- and was- great up here, but he won’t get much time to play, and we’ll need him as our backup next season (no offense Red-Dog.) He needs to get the at-bats and innings in down there to make the leap to the pros for all of 2010. Bring Morales up would be a quick-fix that would hurt the Twins next season.
Harris wasn’t bad at second this season . . . any reason he can’t trade positions with Casilla and see what happens?
I am a Delmon Young fan, but someone needs to sit down with him and get into his head. Sitting him long-term and having him DH against a lefty would help. It’s just unfortunate that he probably wouldn’t be a reliable and consistent bat off the bench with some pop.
Here’s hoping the Twins have their usual June-September string of awesome games, and with interleague play coming up this month, hopefully June brings a strong month. Twins do have 17 of their 28 games on the road this month, which seems kind of scary this year.
In 2007 Delmon Young hit .288 with 13 HRs and 93 RBI while playing in 162 games as a 21-year old rookie for Tampa Bay. Those are close to the numbers that won a multi-year contract for Cuddyer. Why is he having such a hard time with the Twins? You can’t say the kid doesn’t have the ability (last year he hit .290). He’s not an aging veteran or beset with injuries. So why should his numbers have dropped off? I think the answer is in the way the kid has been jerked around since opening day, and written off in the press by his manager even before ST started.
Delmon can’t be sent down to the minors people
Jason: He was on 40-man roster straight out of high school.
Howard: Yes, I’m comfortable with 5 infielders. Morales could play infield if the situation was dire enough.
Send Buscher down, bring up Morales. Send Tolbert down when Punto comes off DL. Start Harris everyday. Span/Gomez/Cuddyer everyday except when one needs a day off and then you put Kubel out there and DH Morales.
“Harris wasn’t bad at second this season . . . any reason he can’t trade positions with Casilla and see what happens?”
yes, that leaves us with a .187 shortstop who has committed 5 errors. If Casilla hasn’t done anything after Nicky’s 15-day vacation, you send him back down and give the spot to Tolbert. That, and Bill Smith gets busy on the telephone.
It’s probably too early to start looking for teams to deal away talent on the cheap, but I’d sure start looking. The problem is that many of the teams that should (and probably will) be dredging the bottom of the standings are actually outperforming expectations and some teams that are currently feeding at the bottom retain hopes of bouncing back. Makes it challenging to find a good trading partner yet.
I do think two months has been plenty of time to make some decisions about certain guys and their potential contributions this season. Too bad a few of these guys are out of options because I don’t really think we want to risk losing all of them through the waiver process.
Jason and OG, I’ve got the August KC series penciled in on my calendar as well. I saw the “half done” Kaufman last season but I’m anxious to see the finished product.
As to your later question re: 5 outfielders, Howard, yeah, I think it would be worth the risk. It’s not like you can’t call someone back up if Crede has problems. Outside of a day or two where he experienced some back spasms, his “health issues” haven’t really been related to anything he’s had a debilitating history with. He’s held up better than I feared he would. At some point, you have to roll the dice.
The Rays signed DY to a major league vcontract, so 2004, 2005 and 2006 were his option years.
I agree Buscher needs to go down, he is terrible at third and he is not hitting. I don’t know if you bring up Hughes if you don’t plan on giving him some regular at bats, but he is to the point where you have to see if he has it or not. Morales would make sense because then you can give Mauer more days at DH not days off. Punto can be a defensive sub and pinch runner, also it never hurts to have a guy who can competently play 3 infield positions (at least defensively) on the bench. Tolbert can play D but is having issues at the plate (seems to be a plague amongst the middle infielders) so I don’t know if he has a spot unless it is decided to dumb Punto (can I dare to dream?). It’s a long season yet folks, but I agree that changes need to be made.
Get Buscher and Tolbert on the next flight to Rochester. Bring back Morales. Give another middle infielder from Rochester a shot or trade for someone. You’ve got Buscher, Punto, Tolbert and Casilla all hitting (or not hitting) sub-.200. This cannot go on. They’ve had their chance and they haven’t performed. Time to make some changes.
The White Sox are under performing but you hear about them trying to get Jake Peavy and now they might be trying to go for Roy Oswalt. Now I know the Twins won’t chase these kind of guys but how about something more than who is up next from Rodchester? Or am I asking too much again?
- Keep Casilla at 2B
- Keep Harris as the starting SS except, as Howard suggested, when Blackburn starts, then let Punto play.
- When Punto comes off the DL, send
Brian Buscher down to AAA. He really has nowhere to play on this team, he is a liability anywhere you put him on the field, and his bat has really cooled off, showing that last year was probably an anomaly.
- When Perkins comes off of the DL, send Liriano to the Bullpen, he can be the hard throwing late inning guy that can miss some bats that this team badly needs.
- DFA Jesse Crain. He’s awful. Simply put, he’s this year’s version of last year’s Juan Rincon.
- Even though he’s been a serviceable relief option, send Sean Henn back to AAA and call up Juan Morillo. Morillo has put up good numbers in AAA, and even if he reverts back to his old form, he’s still an upgrade over Jesse Crain.
- Take a more patient approach at the plate. It seems like a few weeks ago when the Twins were putting up 20 runs on people, the entire lineup was taking a very patient approach at the plate. Over the last week, the players have reverted to their hack-and-miss-happy selves. Watching the Tampa series, even the more reliable players like Span, Mauer, Morneau were taking some really bad swings. It seems like everyone is just trying to knock it out of the park on every pitch right now. Maybe this is a byproduct of the Twins recent power surge, but it needs to end, and quickly.
“now that Punto is on the DL with a sore batting average”
good one.
packh8ter,
You are asking too much again.
Howard is right that this kind of start isn’t uncommon for the Twins but there is a problem.In the past the Twins have had the resouces in the minors to bolster the roster.I don’t see that depth this summer.
Swarzak might have been the only viable option,maybe Duensing,at AAA.The top brass doesn’t seem to think Slama or Delaney are ready,which is disturbing given their ages.There seems to be no postional help anywhere on the horizon,or at least help for ‘09.
So how do the Twins help a roster that obviously needs it? A Castillo type trade that was alluded to would be great but again the resources needed to pull of a deal might not be there.But with holes in the middle of the infield,one OF spot,the bullpen,and at least two rotation spots this team needs more than one trade IMO.
At the risk of sounding like one of those “dramatic” bloggers big H mentioned,maybe it’s time for a change in leadership.The Organization obviously felt this team was built to contend this year.So far the results would indicate either a team that is under performing or isn’t as good as was advertised.
If the team is underachieving,maybe a new voice in the dugout is whats needed.A player can only hear “let’s get after it” so many times.
If the front office made bad personnel decisions,maybe a new vision is needed.Maybe “The Twins way” needs to be tweaked,or even overhauled.
Just on fans opinion.
Howard, I agree with 3 of your 5 proposed changes (Harris every day SS, Mauer #2 in the order, Carew with Delmon) A couple points about the latter: a. Delmon has been reducing his swings outside the strike zone every year (percentage of balls outside the zone he swang at: 2006: 50.3%, 2007: 41.3%, 2008: 39.9%, 2009: 34.3%) b. Wouldn’t you imply that Vavra is just not good enough? 
some additional fixes:
way overdue:
*Cut Redmond (or let him be in Rochester if he accepts assignment) and call up Morales
*Option Buscher and bring up Hughes (or Huber until Hughes is healthy)
*Replace Anderson with Bobby Cuellar as the pitching coach. To fix Liriano’s mechanical problems and try to teach pitchers like Crain, Slowey, Baker, Blackburn the change up.
*Make Liriano throw at least 20% changeups in a game
*Return Delmon Young to his natural position (RF) where in 2007 was better than Cuddyer.
in the near future:
*try to find a taker for Cuddyer that would bring up a starting pitcher prospect (all of the sudden there are not many of those at the almost ready stage in the Twins’ organization). Sell High
*Perkins to the pen Henn to AAA
*Slowey, Blackburn, Baker, Lirano, Swarzak rotation.
Regarding removing Anderson as pitching coach, I think Gardenhire-Anderson is the same situation as Kelly-Such or Burns-Schnelker. You’ll never get rid of one without getting rid of the other.
If Perkins recovers from his elbow tightness, you clearly have to keep him in the rotation over Liriano.
thrylos98-
Couldn’t agree more with your post, but the chances of us even seeing the first 3 changes (Harris, Mauer, Delmon/Carew)is probably around 50%….
I had no idea how effective Cuellor (sp?) has been in teaching pitchers the change-up, until I read about it on your blog, and the thought of having him to teach our rotation is very appealing.
Sadly, there is no way the Twins would ever sell high on a “Twins guy” like Cuddy (not saying that I want to see him go, just realizing that he is a pretty decent trade option–and we need alot of help)
“I think Gardenhire-Anderson is the same situation as Kelly-Such or Burns-Schnelker. You’ll never get rid of one without getting rid of the other.”
I don’t think that Rick Anderson has suddenly “lost it” I think the team doesn’t have any pitchers with great stuff it’s a miracle he has been able to craft a decent rotation and Twin’s keep grabbing relievers from the K-Mart blue light special rack that perform decent here (see Breslow,Dickey,etc..)
Gardy on the other hand….
Regarding removing Anderson as pitching coach, I think Gardenhire-Anderson is the same situation as Kelly-Such or Burns-Schnelker. You’ll never get rid of one without getting rid of the other.
Smith should show some cojones and do it, and if Gardy resigns, let it be…
I think the team doesn’t have any pitchers with great stuff it’s a miracle he has been able to craft a decent rotation
compare the same pitchers 2008 with 2009. Is it a massive pitching disabling virus?
“I don’t think that Rick Anderson has suddenly “lost it” I think the team doesn’t have any pitchers with great stuff…”
It isn’t a matter of wheter or not Anderson has lost it. The question should be whether or not he’s the best avaialbe option to work with the pitchers the Twins have. I don’t know the answer, but I hope the front office would at least consider the question.
Shawn in Binghamton says: “callup Morales or Hughes.”
I think Hughes is hurt now.
Walter, I’m don’t agree about guaranteeing Perkins’s spot in the rotation considering he gave up 24 runs in his last 23 innings pitched. If all that was due to elbow soreness then he should have said something before his last start when he pitched 2/3 of an inning.
If Smith fires anyone, his list should begin with R. Gardenhire.
Sadly, there is no way the Twins would ever sell high on a “Twins guy” like Cuddy
It’s really interesting but this “Twins’ way” is really hurting the team. The interesting part is that when this team did not do this the “Twins’ way”, when Andy McPhail was the GM, they ended up winning 2 World Championships. Enter the “Twins way”, enter mediocrity…
All,
On Delmon’s option status, he was optioned by the Rays in ‘04, ‘05 and 06 and has more than five years as a pro (not as a major leaguer), so he doesn’t qualify for a 4th options.
t98: If Young is swinging at fewer pitches outside the strike zone but striking out close to twice as often as last year — 16.9% in ‘08 vs. 31.6% in ‘09 — that might imply that Delmon just isn’t good enough?
If Smith fires anyone, his list should begin with R. Gardenhire.
That’s why last off-season I was majorly mad when he got an extension, instead of having 2009 being a trial season for him… Look at Leyland on the other hand. He was at the same situation as Gardy (under contract through 2009), did not get extended and see where the Tigers are…
Hey thrylos98,
do you know Cuellar personally? just curious, thanks.
thry, Don’t forget about the Tiggers’ new pitching coach…
Bring back LeCroy and LaToilet Hawkins.
Hawk has a 2.61 ERA out of the Astros bullpen. I’d love to have him back.
Liriano has given up 16 runs in his last 12 innings.
If Young is swinging at fewer pitches outside the strike zone but striking out close to twice as often as last year — 16.9% in ‘08 vs. 31.6% in ‘09 — that might imply that Delmon just isn’t good enough?
there are a couple of things going on here:
a. 117 vs 623 PAs
b. Young is always a cold starter. June, July and August have been his best months. I suspect that by August his K rate will be at the mid-high teens (like usually is) if he gets regular playing time
thry, Don’t forget about the Tiggers’ new pitching coach…
who came from which organization, btw?
do you know Cuellar personally? just curious, thanks.
no. I met him over at New Britain when he was managing there last season and chatted fairly superficially for five minutes, other than that, no.
That’s why last off-season I was majorly mad when he got an extension, instead of having 2009 being a trial season for him…
And you were majorly correct.
The change to this team is very simple. Cut Gomez!! Yes he can field and he is fast but what good is his speed if he can’t even get on base. Why not have the outfield consist of Young, Span, and Cuddyer. Putting Span in center is the same fielding wise, but why have a guy hit who is batting only around .220. Looks like the Twins screwed up with another trade getting the second most overrated player in the game behind Derek Jeter
I didn’t claim Liriano had pitched well. I just don’t think Perkins’s rotation spot is a lead pipe cinch either.
Gardenhire is not the reason the Twins are where they are. underperforming players that were expected to follow the same growth.
Young, Gomez, Casilla, Punto….
They arenot getting production out of 2nd and SS for offense.
I wonder if half the posters here have any clues.
Win Twins!
It appears to be a choice between Liriano and Perkins, doesn’t it? Swarzak really deserves a couple more starts, in my opinion.
I think Perkins should go to the pen - he doesnt have enough pitches to stay in the rotation, despite his hot start. i think he’s gotten b/c he’s a lefty, but Swarzak looks to be the real deal and a good competitor - keep him in or bring him back if anybody sneezes.
any word out there on Pedro Martinez?
“compare the same pitchers 2008 with 2009. Is it a massive pitching disabling virus?”
Blackburn,Guerrier are better then last year Slowly is almost the same
and why is Swarzak doing so well if FRankenAnderson has the “touch of death” ?? he can only do so much with the crap hand he has been given
So who is out there right now that might deal? Oakland might be ready - Billy Beane would probably at least talk about Orlando Cabrera and/or Adam Kennedy. The Twins would see a significant increase in payroll for Cabrera, and would likely have to send some top prospects. Kennedy might be available for Tollefson/Tolbert or another 2nd baseman, but otherwise they don’t have anyone else at 2nd with Ellis on the DL.
Nats might part with old friend Cristian Guzman or Alberto Gonzalez (also a SS), but gain Guzman would not be cheap and Gonzalez would probably need some real top pitching prospects (Swarzak plus …).
Baltimore might part with Robert Andino (SS) but his stats (.256/.304/.279 OPS .583) probably make him another Punto/Cassilla/Tolbert.
Pirates have no middle infileders in the minors that look promising, so they seem unlikely to deal.
Who else is far enough out to talk at this point? Houston/Colorado/Arizona probably all think they still have a chance.
I don’t think there’s much you can go get at this point, with thepossible exception of Oakland. Do you want Cabrera? Kennedy is playing on fire, but will likely also return to his normal Punto/Cassilla/Tolbert type numbers pretty soon.
Swarzak deserves his shot now, but I’m pretty sure there’s a fair amount of flukiness to how he’s pitched so far. Hitters will figure him out sooner than later.
LaToilet is doing well but the name sticks. Like Ian LaDerriere, Moseph Williams, Gustopher Frerrote, some names just stick for me.
Greg,
Fire him anyway. The team needs a shake-up. That’s how you get underperfoming players to snap out of it.
You people sound like Gardenhire is owed more than the fans or the players who are actually trying are.
a. Replace Baker and Liriano with Swarzak and Dickey; make Liriano the 8th-inning pitcher, where he can throw nasty sliders all inning; send Baker down to Rochester until he can get his head screwed back on.
b. Trade Delmon Young, Jesse Crain and either Tolbert or Casilla to Washington for Anderson Hernandez and one of their relief pitchers.
c. Live with an outfield of Span in left, Gomez in center, and Cuddyer in right. Rotate them as DH to give Kubel playing time in the field.
d. Keep Mauer batting 2nd. Lineup should be:
Span LF
Mauer C
Cuddyer RF
Morneau 1B
Crede 3B
Kubel DH
Harris SS
Hernandez 2B
Gomez CF
If Crede needs a day off, move Kubel to the 5 hole and put Buscher 6th.
If Mauer needs a day off, move Hernandez to the 2 hole and put Red Dog 8th.
I wonder if they could hire Cuellar just on a contract basis to coach and teach the pitchers the change up. I know it would probably be hard for Anderson to swallow but it would be best for the team. It seems like our young pitchers really like Anderson but really I think we need something more. I too believe that Liriano should head to the pen and see if he can get 2 maybe 3 innings of good pitching down and then try to work him into a starter again. Look at the mess they have with Joba Chamberlain in NY? One week he’s a starter and the next week they’re moving him into the pen - confusing.
I think the biggest problem the Twins organization has is that they become too loyal to their players and stay with certain players a little too long. Loyalty is normally not bad unless it hurts the strength of your team. When certain players have proven that they are just not getting the job done, they (the Twins) need to make changes much sooner than they normally do. I think the infield (except JM) needs to be set and stayed with to give the players a sense of security; not have them think that they will be replaced by the next error or bad at bat. I would pick the best hitters because I do not believe anyone stands out head and shoulders above the rest in the field; they all are adequate and I think the Twins have lost more games because of lack of offensive than lack of defense. DY needs more at bats but I don’t know how he is going to get them because, in my opinion, your best team has to play almost every day and he isn’t in that group. More offense would make the young pitchers better - not great - but better. I would leave that group as is - for now. Improve the offense with the players we now have by going with the best offensive rotation.
I’d lose somebody else before dropping Henn. This team can’t afford to lose anything that remotely passes as an effective reliever right now.
Also I think pretty clearly the biggest underperformer of the AL Central is Cleveland, who some picked to win it.
Bill Smith should be fired for the Delmon Young trade. it was a move made, just to make a move and it gutted the team.
If any of us screwed up that bad at our jobs we would be told to take a hike.
If the Pohlads are going to continue to run the team on the cheap, we at least need a competent GM. Bill Smith has got to go.
Somebody up there suggested Ray Durham too. No. Makes absolutely no sense. Guzman? No. Been there done that not going back.
Trade Delmon Young and whatever else it takes for Brian Roberts. Os are destined for last place again. DY is still young enough that they just might take the chance. Put Casilla at short with the one condition that if he can’t hit from the right side then he only bats left handed regardless of who is pitching. If that doesn’t work he sits with Harris batting against lefties. Put Roberts in the 2 spot with Casilla and Gomez 8 and 9.
I demand the Twins start looking at japanese players NOW. You can’t tell me there isn’t a 2nd baseman playing in Japan right now that isn’t an upgrade over ANYTHING in the Twins system, on the Twins now, or realistically available to the Twins on the market. Half the teams in MLB have signed Japn players now, mostly with positive results. Why are the Twins not active in that market? Only the really huge names in Japan require a huge posting fee. The Twins can afford it.
No matter how ya stack crap ya end up with a pile of crap. No team can contend with “head” problems in the middle IF. We can only speculate on the cause or causes, but a problem evidently exists. If LNP had the offensive numbers he had last year, and the confidence (personal and teamwise)that flows from that level of competence, I think we’d be leading the pack. That said, I believe fixing the MI “head” problems to be paramont. I donot know the budget or the boardroom dynamics, but I would suggest in decending order:
A. Hire an allstar level middle IF’er.
B. Hire a journeyman level middle IF’er.
C. Consider moving Cassila to SS.
D. Bring up Plouffe.
Most of the pitchers came up through the system and would’ve had the opportunity to learn the change-up from Cuellar in the minors just as Santana and Liriano did.
They could also work with him in the offseason if the really had the desire to learn the pitch. He is an employee of the Twins and should be available year round.
The offseason is the time to learn/experiment with new pitches, not during the season.
Sadly, I am too tired to read all of the comments to reasonably add to the discussion, but I think your suggestions are probably the way to go. With Cuddyer in right and Kubel DH’ing, the Twins have one of the most potent 1-6 in the majors. Whenever Gomez gets on base, he is a threat to score all by his lonesome, so I don’t mind seeing him in the 9th spot. Harris and Crede aren’t great, but like you said, Harris’s bat is just good enough and glove just not too bad that he is our best option.
IMO
1) Sign Mark Grudzielanek to a 1 year deal after the June 6 draft to play 2B. He can’t be worse than Casilla/Tolbert.
2) Every day OF of Span/Gomez/Cuddyer
3) Cut your losses and try to find someone who’ll swap a SS for Young (Braves and Diory Hernandez? Cardinals and Tyler Greene?).
4) If Liriano continues to struggle and Swarzak continues to excel when Perkins returns, send Frankie to AAA to develop his change up just like they did with Johan (assuming Liriano still has an option).
Isn’t it grand we’re asking in June what can be done to fix these Twins when nothing was done the entire offseason? We gave up on guys like Casey Blake,and management went with the status quo, “hoping” everything would round into form. The problem is that the front office has made too many bad moves already and is maneuvering around those to try to make this team work. How’s that trade with the Mets for Santana working out? That was the best you could do? I like Gardy but he needs to play the talent, not “his guys”. Look at Jason Barlett go for Tampa. Looks like we got duped on that trade too. I live in Rochester, NY and trust me there’s not a lot of help here. The Twins already got the best pitcher in Swarzak, and most of the starters are hitting below .250. Dustin Martin is a AAA rookie, and Jason Pridie should be well above where he is average wise, but he’s not. Of course, the same could be said for Casilla last year and that turned out ok. Send Gomez down and bring up Pridie and see if that sparks him.
Isn’t there a new stadium going up there in Minnesota? You would have thought the front office would have been better prepared a year ahead to put a quality product on the field in the new home.
I would start by firing Bill Smith as he has made horrible trades and really hurt the organization. Next, I would tell Gardy to just accept the fact that Nick Punto has naked pictures of him so Gardy can finally cut Punto.
I think the Pirates would take Casilla for Jack Wilson and Freddy Sanchez might also be available in a salary dump. Plop the Pirates middle infield onto the Twins and you might have a contender. The Twins should be willing to deal any of their 5 infielders and possibly Delmon Young or other cheap, young talent to get that deal done. From wiki:
Freddy Sanchez’s contract guarantees him two seasons with the Pirates and a club option for 2010 that could become a guaranteed year if Sanchez meets certain performance criteria in 2009. The 2010 option takes the place of Sanchez’s first year of free agency. The contract could pay the two time All-Star second baseman up to $18.9 million.
Liriano’s biggest problems are when he’s pitching from the stretch, as his mechanix seem off when he’s in the stretch. Now we want to put him in a spot where he’s going to pitch from the stretch all the time? Doesn’t make sense to me
“I read it and do not question its accuracy, minntwins5, but that seems odd to me. He wasn’t optioned in 2007 or 2008. Is it because he’s played two full seasons in the Big Leagues?”
Someone may have answered this, but to my understanding, even if you aren’t “optioned” down, you still take up an “option year.” It’s your first three years once you start Major League service time, I believe.
Agreed with everything Howard. I would also bring up Morales and go with 5 infielders, really 6 as Cuddyer can play 1st.
I also agree with those pointing to the top. Who did not get us the BP and middle infield help that EVERYONE knew we needed going into the offseason? Who gave Gardy an extended contract? Who gave Punto his ridiculous contract? Now, who keeps sitting our best defensive CF on the bench game after game? Who keeps trotting his favorite player out as his starting SS, no matter how badly he is not getting the job done? Who continues to think that Mauer should bat 3rd? And finally, who is apparently not getting through to our pitchers anymore?
It has been a long time since this organization cleaned house. It has grown stale and is complacent with mediocrity. I would like to see a return to an interest in getting to and winning the WS, not just, “Hey, we’re doing darned good if we win the division or go one and done in the post-season!”
If you want Cuellar you’re probably going to need Stelly to retire.
OF: Situation needs to get resolved now. When I say resolved I mean that someone needs to be moved. It is not working playing 4 OFs, especially when you are only going to rotate 2 of them. This season has been a waste for Gomez and Young to this point. Both are 23 years old and need experience to improve. Jerking them in and out of the lineup just never works imo. Gomez is the only OF imo who has a chance to be super star status. SO he is the last I would trade. Young’s value has evaporated. To me you look at Cuddy first since he is performing above his normal capabilities at this time and he is the oldest. Span you don’t want to trade, but if we want a solid middle infielder it may have to come to that.
SS: Has to be Harris. I don’t like his defense up the middle, but he is light years better than anything else we have at this point. Punto has a chance to hit almost .200 in 2 full MLB seasons. Has that ever been done? That is so bad you cannot justify him in the lineup.
3rd: Crede has been exactly what I have hoped for. What a stud defensively and his bat has been plenty good.
2nd: Ideally you get some help here for one of the OF’s. I just don’t think Casilla, Tolbert, or Punto deserve everday ABs.
Catcher: You have to bring up Morales. I would actually keep red so that Mauer can DH often. I would DH Mauer against all LHP and let Morales catch all those games. With Red on the bench you can absorb an injury without losing the DH. Red provides some leadership value as well and you would give him a start occasionally.
DH: Kubel should only DH against RHP. You cannot justify starting him against LHP when all he does is hit. See point above about Mauer DHing LHP days.
SP: I think you have to look closely at keeping Swarzak in the rotation. I do not feel Perkins is a SP in the majors. He had some nice moments early in the year, but we all see what has happened since. He just gets hit too hard and too often.
RP: I like Mijares and Nathan as the 8th and 9th inning guys. If we could add another solid arm or 2 to get us to the 8th we would be just fine in the pen.
In the end, I feel like settling the OF situation is a top priority. I also feel like getting us some help at 2nd or SS is necessary for us to be a competitive team this year. Bullpen while not good is actually a lower priority for me. Mijares as done a fine job and Matty is showing signs of life being put in a more manageable role this year.
Young or Gomez should be traded for a shut-down reliever or a SS that can produce both offensively and defensively (Barlett comes to mind :o) ) Young would probably do better in Right but Cuddy’s too much of a leader on this team and it’s not worth the pending clubhouse angst (see Santana’s reaction to Casilla trade in ‘06). Keep Mauer in 2 hole with Morneau Cuddy & Crede behind and Young & Kubel can trade off in Left, give Span the CF job he deserves.
Long story short on DY: Because he had a major league contract, he got “optioned” to the minors at the beginning of 2004, 2005, and 2006 seasons. And now is out of options
I agree with several points that have already been made. No question in my mind that Punto should NOT be starting at any position but be available for late-inning defense/filling in for injured starters. Delmon Young? I can’t know what is in his head. How did his mother’s declining health affect him? How did Gardenhire’s “slip” in Fargo affect him? I think what is more important is how is Vavra’s instruction affecting him? I feel that he is in a no-win situation with the Twins. For his sake, I think it would be wise for the Twins to give him a chance somewhere else via trade. I would hope for maybe a AA starting pitcher and a A-ball outfielder with the kind of power potential that Delmon was supposed to have. If they could get that much in a trade for him, I think that would be pretty good. But even that is probably too much to expect.
Not that the Twins will make a trade during the season anyway. I don’t see them selling the farm to get another quality starting pitcher and they certainly can’t afford to trade one of their productive players. I think there is still hope for Liriano…but I don’t feel it would hurt him to spend some time in the bullpen. At this point, even Perkins seems like he could struggle through his starts better than Liriano can. If Swarzak has two more good starts before Perkins comes off the DL, keep him in the rotation and give Liriano some time in the bullpen. If someone on the pitching staff has to go, please make it Ayala. Please. Crain would be my second choice.
As Howard and several of you have said, let’s see how Harris does with the manager’s actual SUPPORT. As it is now, he probably wonders when he’ll get to play again if he goes hitless in a game (at least before Punto went on the DL).
Leave Mauer at #2. Casilla doesn’t belong there. And yes, settle on the 3 regular outfielders–whoever they are. Kubel can play servicably in left as a backup.
They turned things around in June in 2006 (actually late May). I just don’t see it happening this year. But one extended hot streak could vault anyone in the division–including Cleveland–into first place. The road difficulties, the lack of reliable or even semi-reliable starters after Slowey and Blackburn, the weak offense of the middle infield, the inconsistent bullpen (I have to congratulate Gardenhire for piecing together the relievers yesterday for that win)…I just don’t see it coming together.
I suspect that Gardenhire and Anderson ARE a matched set. Is that true of Vavra, too? If the Twins do not rise up to their expectations this year or even if they make it to the playoffs and get shown a quick exit, I believe that a change in field management is in order, regardless of contract status.
Now. Watch them suddenly catch fire. I’d love them to prove me wrong on every point.
Thrylos: “Delmon has been reducing his swings outside the strike zone every year (percentage of balls outside the zone he swang at: 2006: 50.3%, 2007: 41.3%, 2008: 39.9%, 2009: 34.3%)”
How this compares to other established players? Let’s say, Crede (A comparison with Mauer wouldn’t be fair).
I ask because 50% seems to me that is close to random, i.e. he swings or not regardless of where the pitch goes, and over 30% still looks to me like a lot of bad swings, but I don’t have someone else numbers to compare.
Sorry Walter johnson, another crazy post….Twins are not ever going to fire Gardy…..
doesn’t happen.
Twins Win!
Delmon’s mother has been ailing all season, and she just passed. He’s probably a frustrated young man that feels as if the world is coming down on him. It can be hard to play when you have alot going on with the family, as well as never knowing if your spot in the lineup is even secure. Delmon is still a great player. If Staff, media, players, and fans started to believe in him as the great player he can be, he WILL perform.
Give Punto the pine. He’s just too terrible when he’s got something locked down. Batting under .200 is no good. Start Harris. He gives good at bats and has some pop in the bat. Trade for a 2B. I know the Tolbert love-fest, but he’s a runner off the bench, at best. Teach Jose Morales how to play 2B!
Liriano will find his groove. Sending him to the bullpen I think would have the same affect on him as sending him down to AAA last season did. It will get his mind straight, and he’ll pitch the way he knows he can.
One thing is for sure…the longer this plays out the worst that TB trade looks.
for those who wanted RA Dickey gone.
… R.A. Dickey has allowed just two runs over his past 16 2/3 innings, giving him a 1.08 ERA over that span
Send Delmon down. Anybody stupid enough to pick him up can have him. Admit the trade was a collassal failure, lick your wounds, and move on. Delmon is the worst outfielder I have ever seen.
Best part of the weekend series was Blyleven’s commentary. Identifying James Shields as Scot Shields about 20 times… his inability to pronounce “Ben Zobrist”… saying it is gross that Dick thinks Bob Allison was a handsome man… but my favorite was his claim that Matt Garza needed a change after 2007 in a weak attempt to justify the Delmon Young trade.
FOCUS ON PITCHING!
I firmly believe Young is down this year because of playing time. Gleeman put his stats under a microscope, I DO NOT believe he is the worst player in the league. My 401 guy told me past performance is no guarantee of future results, so that’s what I’m going by. Get Span, Gomez, and Young in there and let them develop. The trades are made, can’t change that, invest in those three for the long term.
Casilla is the guy Carew should be working with. Last year he had a smooth swing and this year it is like an old lady swinging at a flying bee with a broom handle. He had a good year last year, had a very good winter league season. He can hit better than this but his swing does look a bit different to me. Lengthen it and level it. Harris at short is fine by me since it is looking once again that Punot thinks he needs to hit for power rather than average. His talent is fine by me but his head is a different matter. I like Harris.
Baker and Liriano cannot do any worse than what they have and I am still pretty sure they can do WAY better. Bullpen has been solid for a while now.
Swarzak = 06 Bonser. I hope he doesn’t turn into 07 Bonser.
here is my conclusion on DY, using t98’s stats: He has a better idea of what is a ball and what is a strike, but can now hit neither one of them for any power or for average. Is that about right?
I would keep Perkins in the rotation move Liriano to the pen. Or Trade Young and Liriano to Washington for Willingham + a pitcher for the pen. Young would be with his brother and after all that has happened it may be a good fit for him. Or look to Atlanta who is looking to move Francoeur who is having a bad season maybe a Young for Fancoeur deal straight up. Most experts that I’ve seen reports from seem to think a new team would help Francoer. If the twins could make 1 of these trades I would send Gomez down and let the kid play everyday, no one benefits from him playing 1 a week. I would go with Harris at Short and give Casilla a couple weeks, and if he is not hitting than look a Mark Grudezonik (sp). I also would consider sending Crain down and bring Morilo back up. Now is the time to shake things up, just looking back at the past years June seems to be the month to make the best trades not July at the deadline.
Why would they fire Gardy?
His career record is +100 games? Or does the W/L record for a manager not matter?
Yea, Punto sucks. We get it. Yeah we like Maurer at #2, but he has won a few batting titles sitting at the three spot. So we can’t be all over Gardy for wanting him back there.
Why would they fire Anderson, has he forgotten how to coach?
This is what the twins should do:
Outright Delmon, Pomote some guys within, keep their head down and see where they are at the start of August.
We were gonna lose Santana no matter what. I didn’t like losing Garza at the time but keep in mind we were gonna lose Hunter and were looking squarely at a Cuddy, Tyner, Ford outfield at the time. No one knew Span would turn out great and we didn’t have Gomez yet. It looks worse now but didn’t look as bad at the time. Hindsight is 20/20
Bartlett for Harris? I like Harris ok and I am not comparing him to 09 Bartlett but I liked the old Bartlett’s potential. This was the bad trade.
Des: Kubel was viewed as a starting LF at that point in time.
Trade for Freddy Sanchez…we need a middle infielder who can hit.
Twins should diagnose Delmon Young with an “anxiety disorder” and place him on the DL to skirt around the out of options issue, and then have him get some hacks in at the minor league level to get his timing back.
The Twins should actually consider the possibility that Liriano DOES have an anxiety disorder, and have him seek some help whether it be a sports psychologist like the Rays did w/ Garza, or just medication like the Royals w/ Greinke. Baker might also benefit w/ something similar, tho I don’t think he’s sunk quite as low as Liriano has mentally.
batting coach batting coach batting coach. why do players that we have do fantastic AFTER they play for us??? Big Poppy, Jason Bartlett, etc…
1) Buscher gone. I don’t know why he’s on the team anyhow. He doesn’t hit for enough power(7 hr’s in 364 career ab’s), he absolutely can’t hit lefties, and his defense makes Harris’s look like Omar Vizquel. Him having a roster spot is almost as bad as Punto as a starter. This might be a good roster spot for someone who can play OF as well as the infield. Dunno who that would be, but that’s the kind of player you can trade for without giving up much.
2) Harris FT SS, Punto IF backup. Beat up enough, don’t need to add any more.
3) Gomez to minors, Young FT. Gomez has the options left, so send him down. His swing needs to be totally re-tooled and the minors is the place to do it. I’m not a fan of Young but we don’t have real good options outside of this.
4) Either Liriano or Perk to ‘pen. I think long term they are both relievers, but if it’s only one to the pen it should be Liriano for now. Until he can spot his fastball better he shouldn’t start. Way too many wasted fastballs away.
5) When Perk is back, Ayala gone. A bad signing, prospects for improvement are dim. Henn has enough life on the fastball to merit a spot over Ayala.
6) Teach Crain to pitch inside. He might be the most chicken $H!* pitcher on the team. Nibble away, nibble away, nibble away, meat, game.
We should all take the night off since there is no game tonight and vote for Justin and Joe for the All-Star game.
I totally agree with you on this Howard, Delon needs some serious retraining…atleast gomez speed makes up for some of his bad at bats. We need to make a trade to sure up 2nd base (Dan Uggla maybe?) and we seriously need bullpen helps (Huston Street). Hopefully the Twins will follow your advice!
Fill the 2b spot.
Brian Roberts career, 11 hr, 69 rbi, .285 ave an ops+ 104. cost lots big contract 31 yrs old.
Kelly Johnson, 16 hr, 75 rbi, .279 ave, ops+ 107, cost an outfielder maybe DY with some exchange of prospects, 27 yo.
Dan Uggla, 30 hr, 100 rbi, .250 ave, 113 ops+ cost some comb of cheap players, pre arbitration plus prospects.
What do I do?
I like Young as a player with upside, I just do not think he fits in with what the Twins are trying to do on the field. I do not think we have the players available to get Freddy Sanchez.
fcm, with what DH? Kind of the same weakness in the order. I am not defending the trade cuz like I said I did not want to give up Garza. I am just saying the situation was different at the time. No one could forsee too much competition for the outfield at the time. Anyone could see that Bartlett was as good or better than Punto at the time with more potential.
I’m just saying that the three OF you had listed weren’t the whole reality. Kubel was viewed as an OF at that point, and probably still is. Just so happens there are three pretty decent defensive OF’s ahead of him right now.
I didn’t like giving up Garza either for the record. He was the one that was different from the control pitcher template that so many of our right handed starters are made from.
to answer your question, a DH type would have been brought in from the outside. Probably would have been a disaster of Rondell White proportions
Delmon has been reducing his swings outside the strike zone every year (percentage of balls outside the zone he swang at: 2006: 50.3%, 2007: 41.3%, 2008: 39.9%, 2009: 34.3%)”
How this compares to other established players? Let’s say, Crede (A comparison with Mauer wouldn’t be fair).
“How does that compare with other 23 year olds?” it’s the fair question: Let’s see swinging % of pitches outsize the zone at age 23 or less in the majors:
Pablo Sandoval 45.9%
Cunningham 41.4%
Brignac 37.5%
Ramiro Pena 36.6%
Chris Davis 36.6%
Young 34.3%
Adam Jones 33.2%
Cervelli 32.8%
Holland 29.2%
Cameron Maybin 28.8%
Jay Bruce 28.8%
Jordan Schafer 28.2%
Longoria 27.6%
Snider 27.6 %
Gerardo Parra 27.4%
Gomez 26.3%
Justin Upton 25.2%
Andrus 25.2%
Asdrubal Cabrera 24.1%
Butler 23.1%
Bergesen 22.2%
Colby Rasmus 21.1%
Dexter Fowler 18.8%
Luis Valbuena 17.7%
Young is high among his peer group, but I suspect a lot of people would trade him 1-1 for Chris Davis or Pablo Sandoval who are worse or Adam Jones, who is just slightly better.
Bonus observation: Gomez got his act together this season as far as swinging at bad pitches goes, and now he is among the leaders of his age group
I’m half joking, but actually contemplating the fact that Barry Bonds is still available. He’s not gonna hit 70 HR, but he’d probably still be able to hit .270-.300 w/ 10-20 HR. Move Kubel to LF, deal Delmon, and suddenly your offense is a lot more productive…or hell just bring him in as a bench option, he’s only a slight upgrade over Buscher…
I also agree that everyone should go and vote for Maeur and Morneau for the all-star game….Pretty pathetic when Morneau is 4th in 1b with the kind of stts he has. also, I forgot to note that Go-Go’s defense makes up for his at bats more than Delmon since delmon plays the outfield like a scared rabbit
btw, this season:
Crede 32.7%, Cuddyer 25.9%, Morneau 32.2%, Kubel 26.5% swing on balls outside the zone (all worse than Gomez)
t98: I’m pretty sure everybody else on that list averages more than one extra base hit a month. You can swing and miss if you hit for power in return.
Why would they fire Gardy?
His career record is +100 games? Or does the W/L record for a manager not matter?
Here is why: Gardy’s career record against teams that eventually made the postseason: 93-129 (.419, equivalent of a 94 loss season)
You might win division championships this way in a weak division, but once in the postseason, forget about it (like it has happened)…
Kubel’s Knees can’t handle playing in the outfield regularly. Everytime he has played in the field, he has had to miss games due to inflammation in his knees.
Very good sunmmary, Mr Sinker. Need some more sinkers these days…
The problem with Delmon Young is that he never was any good. His 2007 stats are deceptive because his RBI total was so high. His OPS (on base percentage + slugging percentage) that year was only .723. He had only 13 HRs and hardly ever walked. By comparison, Cuddyer’s OPS that year was .790 and was .866 in his peak year in 2006. When you consider Young’s poor defense, even in 2007 he was an average outfielder at best. He has since regressed from average to really, really bad.
Maybe Bill Smith can fool someone else the way he got fooled and get something for Young. If not, just pull the plug.
of course, Gomez doesn’t probably average more than an extra base hit a month himself. He wins the bad hitting OF tie breaker over young based on his defense I guess.
sweet one: think the knee problem for Kubel will probably go away after this year?
Seriously guys, our bats and defense are fine. We need to trade for pitchers!
i like liriano in the pen - but i’d quit it with this contain yourself/control yourself approach - would tell him to pitch his game and let it rip - he has the mentality of a strike out pitcher and the twins/anderson approach works for some pitchers but it just doesn’t seem like it ever will for liriano. he may risk his elbow in the process, but he won’t find his slider or his confidence until he is allowed to pitch his own game and from the get-go (not falling back on it when in a jam).
I think the outfield rotation is killing production. They put too much pressure on every at bat since they want to play the next day. Just name an outfield and stick with it everyday.
Problem with Punto as the utility guy:
Gardenhire will find a way to start him 5 or 6 times a week.
I’ve always thought the Rondell acquisition got a bad rap. First of all his 2nd half of 2006 was very good and he definitely helped us in our hot streak to win the title. He was really the only guy hitting in the playoffs.
Add in that when we got him there was no reason to believe he was just a washed up guy. He was in early 30’s coming off a good year with a good history. The odds of success were probably just as good as Chili Davis. It just didn’t work out.
The picture I was painting was mainly from memory. I know everyone thought we needed to add some punch after the 07 season. If I had some error it, I apologize but it still doesn’t affect my stance that the trade looked better at the time than it does now.
For now, I would keep Harris at shortstop and hope Casilla finds his stroke. Everything else I would keep the same. We are in nearly every game now as opposed to early in the season. I promise some of these guys will improve dramatically just as some of the guys doing well will decline. If we get more of the former in guys like Liriano and Baker then we will be just fine.
I don’t understand all of the Punto hate. He is usually fantastic on defense. Yes, batting is a sometimes problem, but that is fixable.
I have given up on Crain. Just like pouring gasoline on a fire every time he comes into a game. Guaranteed. Needs to be gone, along with Ayala.
Three words: Drop Gomez, Young,
Firing Anderson and/or Gardy is ignorant nonsense. These pitchers need an introduction to the change-up suddenly? How goofy is that? Why would a manager shakeup automatically make a difference? Can someone point to some precedent? And having a slew of poor performers on a staff isn’t a new phenomenon. It happens all the time. Saying this pitching coach is the culprit, and supporting it with a bunch of FanGraph release point pablum? Stupid.
punto and baker are signed longer term and the twins will give each every opportunity to succeed or fail in their starting roles. i don’t agree with it, but that’s how it will play out.
and they may give guys like young, buscher and harris more at bats in the first half of the season to see if any of them can get hot enough to command anything on the trade market - if young sits, then he’s of no value to the twins or anyone else (and, of course, there’s the catch that you might want to keep a hot player or might lose too many games trying to get a cold player going and thus it wouldn’t be worth it).
the question is how much management and the money side and trade side of things dictates what gardy is encouraged to do with his lineup.
i also wonder about upcoming moves - won’t the twins have to make a firm choice with their middle infield once punto is back? or can they send tolbert or casilla to AAA again? i don’t know. anyone?
Thylos, I don’t know where you got your stats on Gardy. On its own it looks pretty dismal but I would need to see all the other teams stats also during the Gardy era. I would imagine most team’s records are bulked up by wins over the weaker teams. I would still take my chances in short series with that % in the playoffs cuz I know the teams that don’t make the playoffs have a 0.00 winning %.
Why would a manager shakeup automatically make a difference? Can someone point to some precedent?
2008 Mets:
Before firing Randolph: 34-36
After: 55-37
Not trying to be the boy who cried wolf, or fire the coach. How can Vavra still be employed? The Twins batting coach is systematically destroying this team. How hard is it to take a Young phenom, trading Garza and Bartlet, and destroy him to the point of AL suckiest player ever honors. Meanwhile, Gomez’s swing makes me teeter between laughing hysterically and vomitting. I’m certain he will fall down on one of his ‘outta here’ hacks this year–just wait. We have 5, count them 5, regular players that have a sub .200 batting average. What does Vavra do all day besides spitting seeds and talking with Gardy?
birdofprey,
Thank you for interjecting some sanity into this crazy discussion.
Gomez has 7 extra base hits this year out of his 22 hits. Considering how little he has played and how much he bunts that isn’t too bad.
His problem is making consistent contact, not driving the ball.
thrylos98:
The movie “Hoosiers” wanted to get rid of Norman Dale…but they didn’t, and they ended up winning the state title.
thrylos,
you also have the 03 Marlins, 04 Astros, and many many more precedents….
Right, Bradley Guy. And don’t get me started on Ronald Reagan and “Win one for the Gipper.”
fcmlefty,
I don’t know if Kubel’s knee issues are attributed to the turf or if they just can’t handle the rigors or running in the outfield at all.
The funny thing is his inflammation problem came up after player semi-regulary in the field while on the road.
He played in the outfield 3 of 5 games in NY and Chicago and them missed the last 2 games in Chicago and the first game at home against Boston.
thrylos,
You need to stop with the fire Gardy campaign. It’s not going to happen. You can twist his record any way you want to make him look like a failure. So he has a .250 winning percentage on the Tuesday after the July 4th. The bottom line is he has strung together more successful seasons than any other manager in Twins’ history and most managers in the major leagues. Get over it.
Forget Kubel’s knees hurting, have you all seen him play the OF? He is a platoon DH/pinch hitter. Nothing wrong with that at all, but that is what he is. He is real good at that role as well.
Could we get some of these guys to seriously address their problems by good old fashioned high school coaching techniques? Who cares if you “embarrass” them–like their performances aren’t embarrassing enough. Delmon, you strike out swinging at the first three pitches, have a seat. Cuddyer (great player but) you chase a 2 strike fast ball just under eye level, every pitcher in the bigs knows they can climb the latter on you, have a seat. Punto, your sitting if you pop out. Tolbert, that was a nice lazy line drive to the short stop, park it. Most of these players continuing doing the same thing, over and over and over again…
i agree that the “fire gardy” talk needs to stop…yes he has a few man crushes(punto, tolbert, redmond, cuddy) but he is in the top 3-4 managers in the league every year. he gets a bad rep from a lot of fans. he does a good job with what he is given, he can just be overly stubborn at time. he is still a good manager
Thrylos,
Twins 06
W/ Gardy April-May
24-28
June-Oct
72-38
Doesn’t that prove you can get a huge turnaround without changing Managers?
Aren’t stats fun.
You can twist his record any way you want to make him look like a failure.
I am not twisting his record in any way.
Just logic:
To increase your probabilities to win in the post-season, you better have beaten the other teams who made the post-season, during the regular season that year.
Gardy has not done that. As a matter of fact, his record against teams that made the post season from 2002-2008 is worse than that of the Pichburg Pirates in that time span.
If you are happy with the Twins being losers, or wining an occasional AL Central title, fine…
A lot of us are not and want this team to win a world series. Gardy can not do that. Time for a change (actually the off-season after 2006 would have been better, so it is about 3 seasons overdue)
Span/Gomez/Cuddyer = good…is DY a headcase??
Morales for Redmond = good and you can groom Redmond to be the successor to Gardy. Sure, he’s RedDog but Morales is better.
Harris at SS = average D and above average offense at the position, could do worse
Liriano to bullpen, Swarzak in the rotation until he shows he doesn’t belong. Liriano has only been good for 2-3 inning stretches. Get him in the bullpen and have him let loose to get his arm strength and mechanics down.
Baker…WTF?? Start after start he keeps the ball up. It actually isn’t as hard as it sounds - throw down in the zone.
The bullpen, surprisingly, is starting to turn a corner. Will be a quiet strength the rest of the way (find somebody to take Ayala’s spot, pretty much a wash there).
LF - Span
C - Mauer
1B - Morneau
RF - Cuddyer (I don’t really like him here)
DH - Kubel
3B - Crede
SS - Harris
2B - Casilla
CF - Gomez
ES16 - part of the issue I believe is we fans have accepted being a competitive team over a team that has a real chance at making the world series or even winning a playoff series. Gardy has lucked into if not the worse close to the worse division in MLB since he became manager if the Twin’s were in the AL East or West he might never have won any division titles a 6 - 18 playoff record is abysmal and really is the only record that matters..do we think of the 1987 and 1991 Twin teams as a division winners? is that the crown jewel we admire? hardly it’s the WS rings
Kubel is a better defensive OF than Young. That is what is funny about this whole argument. Some of you are trying to find a way to get the 6th best defensive OF on the team, who also happens to hit .230 with no power, on the field. And somehow that will improve the team from middle of the pack to a legit contender?
AaronK I see you forgot to include twin’s PLAYOFF record in 2006..
ZERO WINS!! to an inferior A’s team that the Twin’s were highly favored against
Twin’s get a title about every 20 years, so yes we’re due. Until that happens, I’m very happy with Division Crowns. But give up on Liriano and Young? That would absolutely be insane.
thrylos,
How is your Pittsburg Pirates example relevant? Are you saying you would like to see more wins against the best teams, but fewer wins against bad teams and mediocre teams? So you would be happy with a few more wins against the Yankees and Red Sox, but you’d like to see us with an overall sub. 500 record for a decade? Like I said, you can twist stats any way you want to further your fire Gardy campaign, but it is tiresome.
Frankly, I see if Pittsburgh is willing to do a Jack Wilson-Delmon Young swap… I know that it wouldn’t be straight up (we’d probably have to supply more), but as a brutal ball club, they can afford to give him his ABs, and we could use a good shortstop while also giving them salary relief for this year and next.
Just curious on the Redwings Minor League site they have Jose Morales listed as a infielder/DH. Is he not catching down there and if not is he playing any infield positions?
We started Boof Bonser in Game 2 of that series. Did I mention Boof Bonser? Our #2 Radke’s arm was falling off. Outside of losing Game 1 with Santana I am not sure why it is so surprising we lost that series.
Did the Twins have better talent in previous playoff series they lost? Blame Gardy all you want, but lets not pretend like he has been managing the Yankees.
FVG,
You can’t manage a season to win a World Series. Not in this era. You can hire a manager to keep you competitive every year and give you a good chance to make the playoffs. Once you’re in the playoffs anything can happen, no matter how good your team was during the regular season or how good your manager is. I think this has been proven time and time again in recent history.
Look at the Yankees and Red Sox. They try to manage their teams to win the World Series every year, but how often have they been successful? The Yankees record has been pretty poor in recent years.
Arguments to keep or fire a manager ased on his team’s record his teams record is not convincing to me. It seems to me the material he is given has a fair amount to do with it. A manager is an important component, and I have complaints about him too, but the Twins difficulties are way bigger than Gardenhire.
jack Wilson should be available if the Twins will take on salary.Then you send Tolbert down and play Punto about 2x a week..instead of Punto playing 5 times a week.That should eliminate about 15 automatic outs by our pop up , flare to the 2b or medium fly out to left by Punto. reds done after this year and any news on ole tender finger Cuddyer?? Was wondering when his finger ailments would show up……..I swear to god we should actually call Barry Bonds. Can he possibly do worse than Delmon or GoGo??????/
Arguments to keep or fire a manager based on the team’s record are not convincing to me. It seems to me the material he is given has a fair amount to do with it. A manager is an important component, and I have complaints about him too, but the Twins difficulties are way bigger than Gardenhire.
Arguments to keep or fire a manager based solely on the team’s record are not convincing to me. It seems to me the material he is given has a fair amount to do with it. A manager is an important component, and I have complaints about him too, but the Twins difficulties are way bigger than Gardenhire.
Oh my … what happened there?
Yanks and Red Sox have the big name players linked to PED’s also. All their success is tainted.
performance enhanced typing, Pesky.
“Delmon, you strike out swinging at the first three pitches, have a seat. Cuddyer….have a seat. Punto, your sitting if you pop out. Tolbert, that was a nice lazy line drive…park it.
Two more benchings and we forfeit.
Would we still be able to field nine men, Blake?
I’m just wondering.
Don’t be naive and think the Twins have never had any players taking PEDs.
Cindy,
Morales has only caught and DH’d at Rochester. He played one game at third base for New Britain in ‘05 and ‘06. The Twins drafted him as an infielder but may have had second thoughts when he committed 16 errors in 64 games at second base in 2001-02. The Twins moved him to catcher the year after.
Trade for DeRosa (move Manship for him) and put him at 2nd, move Casilla to SS, keep swarzack in the rotation and put Perkins in as the 8th inning guy.
I bet Delmon goes 0-4 with 3k’s tonight versus Off Day’s starting pitcher.
Gardy in 2006 had the Cy Young winner,MVP, and batting champ don’t pretend he had the Yankees he had BETTER then the Yanks!
Benny, comparatively speaking, it would be like CC and Seven and Smoky Joe testing positive.
Is Delmon uncoachable, or is Vavra not working with him?
Two weeks ago, Coomer broke down his stance, showing that there’s very little chance of him catching up with a fastball the way he leans toward the pitcher prior to the pitcher releasing the ball. The way he hits, he’s leaning back as the ball’s coming in, which makes his swing really wild. And of course, if you’re body’s moving opposite your swing when the pitch is coming in, you can’t keep your head still, so you miss more often than you make contact. Most guys lean back and wait, then, if they decide to swing, their weight is going forward when the pitch comes in, so they can generate power while keeping their body and head relatively still.
If Ron Coomer can see this, every team in the league can see it. So they just keep pumping high fastballs in there knowing he’ll never catch up to any of them. And he’s perfectly happy to swing at all of them. Again, why is this not being addressed? Either he’s uncoachable or Vavra’s not working to correct it.
The Twins should take a look at getting Ben Sheets as a fifth starter (he could probably be the #1 guy) Didn’t he test the market in the offseason and when there were no takers he had surgery but would be available midseason? Sabathia and Sheets were a pretty dominant 1-2 punch for the Brewers last season.
Ok cmathewson you convinced me. Now I am changing it to 0-4 with 4 K’s.
C-Math:
When I saw the video “Growing Up Young”, a small segment of it caught my attention and you may be onto something. View it on-line if possible and I think you will know what I mean.
Great, he had 3 really good players…we all know that.
He also had Nick Punto at 3rd. Jason Tyner, Rondell White, Lew Ford, ext ext. 2 of our top 3 pitchers were hurt in the playoffs.
That was a dream season. If we had a healthy Radke and Liriano we may have been able to win in the playoffs.
“Look at the Yankees and Red Sox. They try to manage their teams to win the World Series every year, but how often have they been successful?”
Red Sox have won 2 WS and 2 playoff series in the 7 seasons Gardy has managed the Twins
Yanks have lost the WS and have won 3 playoff series in the 7 seasons Gardy has managed the Twins
I would rather take the Red Sox or Yankees results during Gardy’s tenure wouldn’t you??
Vavras a joke.After GoGo’s slap out to the pitcher on Sunday the camera showed Vavra and Gardy sitting there stone faced. One,if not both of them should have been all over GoGos a$$……No excuse….Quit giving him the kid glove treatment and let him know its time to improve or go down. GoGo has great defensive skills…At the plate he has the baseball IQ of a 4th grader.
Yes and I bet Gardy wouldn’t mind having the talent in Boston and NY either.
Span/Gomez/Cuddyer should be the threesome in the outfield for the rest of the season (barring injury of course). If Delmon isn’t traded he really should be relegated to the bench, and if he is traded, Dustin Martin probably deserves a call as our 4th outfielder.
Liriano should move to the pen. Sooner than later. Ayala can be cut to make room for him. If Crain doesn’t shape up, I think either he or Henn needs to be shown the door to make room for an aggressive promotion of Delaney from AA. Nobody else at AAA really is crying out for a pomotion, even Duensing.
If Perk can’t get it back together on his return maybe we need a look at Mulvey? I think Baker is too good and too solid not to sort things out and I think he’s at least shown SOME improvement as opposed to Liriano who breaks down like clockwork after his first time through the order.
A quick scour of middle infielders who aren’t “franchise players” on bottom dwelling teams: Alberto Callaspo, Mark DeRosa, Adam Kennedy, Cesar Izturis, Cristian Guzman, Freddy Sanchez, Clint Barmes, Stephen Drew. Don’t you think one or two of them would be able to be plied away (if not now, at least by the All-Star break or the trade deadline)? Any of them would be an upgrade over Punto/Tolbert/Casilla and maybe even Harris. If not, let’s at least get a look at Plouffe in a month, there’s no way he can be worse than the other garbage we’ve been trotting out in the middle this year. But until then, Harris starts everyday. And I like your thought of releasing Buscher in favor of bringing back Morales.
Make it happen!
Right, Fire. And back to the Cy Young MVP Batting Champ thing, I felt we got screwed out of the Rookie of the Year that year also.
well i would say gomez punto crain and young should either be traded they just dont produce and they excluding crain make bonehead playssoget rid of them!!!!!!!!!
“Would we still be able to field nine men, Blake?
I’m just wondering.”
Would it matter that point. Gardy can come out on the field, punt his hat, and go home.
How about Roy Oswalt!! I hear the Astros are looking to move him.
If the Twins would have had a healthy Radke and Liriano for the 2006 postseason, they still would have gotten drilled in the first round. If you remember correctly, the pitching was pretty good. It was the offense and the defense *coughHuntercough* that did them in.
Unless I’m guaging public opinion wrong, we wouldn’t want a title won with A-Roid, Roidger Clemens, and Womanny Ramirez.”
How to improve the Twins? I see two options.
1. Hold open tryouts like in the movie “Invincible.” There’s got to be somebody who can come in and contribute to this team.
2. Admit we’re not going to win the division this year, and play the young guys more often. Players like Gomez, Young, Buscher, Tolbert, Casilla, Pride, and Morales. Let’s see what they can do.
3. Get back to Twins baseball and start doing the little things again.
Any help will have to come from within the organization..As we chat Bill Smiths at his local YmCA pumping iron and thumb wrestling and doing hand curls in order to strengthen his death grip on the Pohlad kids well earned inheritance. If you are on a diet and wanna puke a pound up , consider this. Gardy convince them to pay Punto $4 million over the next 2 seasons….so he’ll be here next year to show us that the Mendoza line is a thing of the past and that now .190 is the new fad-the PUNTO line.
Cindy, what about Juan Rincon and Rondell White who were on the 2006 team? Just because they weren’t good doesn’t mean they aren’t cheaters.
FVG,
That’s not my point. The point is they manage their team to win the World Series every year and they can’t do it. Look at all the money they pump into their team. Look at their players and they can’t do it. Yet you and thylos expect Gardy to win the World Series with a fraction of the budget and talent. That makes no sense.
Good one Wade! I can’t top that! But I’ll try:
A spider asked his mom if she could teach him to do the backstroke. Mom asked him why? He said it was because he wanted to be in a soup joke.
“Just because they weren’t good doesn’t mean they aren’t cheaters.”
Not my opinion, but it evidently is playing out that way around the country.
Yet you and thylos expect Gardy to win the World Series with a fraction of the budget and talent. That makes no sense.
The Rays and Rockies made it to the post-season with a fraction of the Twins’ budget.
Children who were born the last time the Twins made it to the World Series will be able to vote in this years’ elections.
While my opinions will never be popular I will gladly continue to give them, lol.
1) Either Delmon Young or Gomez have to be sent to AAA.
2) Liriano needs to be put in the bullpen for a month, and if that doesn’t work he needs to be sent down, or traded. He still has some trade value as a young lefty that can throw hard.
3) We need to break a traditional rule of thumb, and trade within the division and look at the Royals bullpen. They have 3-4 guys that would be entertaining here… Juan Cruz whom I personally mentioned before the season ended last season would have made this team 15-20 games better than they will be by the end of this season.
4) I would start the promotion of Let’s Give The Dome a Fairwell party in October. I would like to see them do a 40 man roster fairwell at the dome for season ticket holders, and having other fans have an opportunity to win tickets to it, and get autographs, and do kind of like the Twinsfest, but as a goodbye to the dome.
5) Most importantly Fire Bill Smith. Picking up Craig Breslow, signing Morneau, and Nathan were solid moves, but with what he has done in trading, and what he has not done in free agency has shown that at the very best he’s got a lot to learn, but after 20 years in the game as the number 2 guy that he should be held to a higher standard than he has been. Hire someone from inside the Organization to run the team, but bring in 1-2 people from outside the organization to in fuse some new attitude and ideas to the team.
I’m with you, thrylos. I don’t think the Rays last year were thinking “we can’t compete with the Red Sox and Yankees because they have more money”.
Everyone is in favor of giving Delmon yet another pass in the hopes of seeing progress because of his youth.
I think I finally disagree, not because of talent, because that has been what’s gotten him here. The issue with Delmon in my opinion is about PASSION. DY doesn’t seem to have his heart in the game. I feel like he’s just showing up for work, whereas All-Stars have a passion for being the best. DY has a passion to collect a daily paycheck.
Sorry for the negativity, cause I do love me my Twins!
I agree Span/Mauer/Morneau lineup is the perfect set up.
Infield: 1st and 3rd are set Morneau and Crede. I would put Harris as the SS because he has the better bat. 2B is a toss up, neither Punto/Casilla/Tolbert have stood out for the job.
Outfield: I do think they need to switch off, but I think Span and Cuddyer should be in the lineup most of the time. Gomez is good to have for defensive reasons. I will not give up on Young, he is a young man and he lost his mother who battled cancer. He will be thinking about, all of you who criticize him, leave him alone. How long it will take him nobody knows. GIVE HIM A CHANCE. I think we need to keep him because Cuddyer is not getting any younger and I think a Span/Gomez/Young outfield would dominate.
Pitching: The bullpen has been solid these past couple weeks. I think getting rid of Breslow and bringing in Henn worked out great. Mijares is back to last year’s form. Guerrier is doing well from last year. My only concern is Crain, but I’ll give him a chance. Bullpen is fine. It’s the starting pitching that has been our problem. Blackburn and Slowey have been solid. Perkins started out well, but the shoulder probably played a role in some of his losses. I think he can come back.
The two biggest and only problem for the Twins is LIRIANO AND BAKER. If they can have some good games and get some confidence back, the Twins will start to win.
I do believe the Twins will come back and win the division. We have the hitting and it is clicking. The bullpen is coming together. The only thing that needs fixing is Liriano and Baker, if they can get some wins, the Twins will come back. Remember 2006? Slow start and then best record after the all star break. Stop whining and realize there’s plenty of baseball left. Anything can happen. Twins will win the division.
It is possible to win with less money and overall talent, but it is much more difficult. Those 2 teams caught fire and caught some breaks to make it. The Rockies have proven that was a complete fluke and the Rays are on the verge of proving they were a fluke.
I am sure the Twins will break through sometime too. I don’t see why you are so sure Gardy is the difference. Gardy is 10x the manager Hurdle ever dreamed of being.
Punto must be at most utility…..He would have a better chance hiiting with a blindfold. Harris is a much better hitter, keep Harris at SS and try to salvage something of Punto. Trade him for a couple of bats as did one other team in minor league ball. He is a great guy, but thats all he is worth. $4.0 millon a year for a guy who cant hit……sorry the money is wasted. Harris is the BEST option….if you want to win.
Why not move Liriano to the pen?? He seems like a perfect fit for an 8th inning setup guy…he never seems to run into problems until the 2nd or 3rd time through the lineup…and averages 2 strikeouts an inning.
Aaron, how could the Rays have been a fluke when they won the AL East division in a 162-game race against those Yankees and Red Sox?
A much tougher division than the Twins ever won, I might add.
I like the idea of dealing with the Pirates - Wilson or Sanchez. I am not necessarily a Punto basher but I think it is just the situation he is in or better that the Twins are in. You could live with him at short if you didn’t have another 2 or 3 sub .225 hitters in the lineup (Gomez, Casilla, Tolbert, Young-heading that way).
I think I was one of the first ones this morning to bring up the possibilty of a managerial change.Here is my reasoning.
You can look at Gardenhires record and cut it up anyway you want.It doesn’t prove he’s a good or bad manager.But it’s pretty obvious to me that this team isn’t playing “Twins Baseball” anymore,and has under performed to this point this year.Sometimes players,right or wrong,simply tire of the same old mantra.Sometimes a new voice is needed.
TK once was asked how many games a year a good manager was worth in the won/loss column.He said stratagy wise about five.Every manager in the big leagues know the x’s and o’s of ML baseball.It’s about managing the players and their personalities and ego’s.
Only the players in the Twins clubhouse know if Gardy’s message and decision making is or isn’t being listened to.But managing the same team for eight years is a long time by industry standards.At some point it becomes a fair question,one any good G.M. would look into.
Don’t worry, be happy with what we got. In a month we will be 8-9 out but in July we can cut it back to 4 then tie it up in August then it is a race to the end. A winning season is 1 to 2 good months and the rest .500
Benny,
Because they are right back to losing again this year. Unless they can maintain success they are just another 1 year wonder.
1. I agree with your OF. At least Gomez can play D, unlike Young. Bench Young.
2. Swarzak starts until he shows in consecutive games he can’t. Move Liriano or Perkins to the pen.
3. cut Buscher. Call up Morales. Morales gets all catcher starts that Mauer does not play catcher.
4. When Hughes is healthy, cut Redmond. Call up Hughes. Hughes can DH against lefties when mauer catches, he can PH for the stiffs, and he can play multiple positions in an emergency.
5. Put Harris at SS or 2B and Casilla at the other. Give them 2 months to show what they have.
6. If Crede is ever put on the DL, call up Valencia. He’s 25, not exactly a spring chicken.
7. Promote Delaney and Slama to AAA. Let’s see what they have. If they are good and the Twins continue to stink with one or two relievers, cut them and call the best of these two up.
None of this costs a lot of money. None of this makes huge, drastic changes to the personnel. It uses what they have the best that it can be used.
This is on Ryan and Smith, more than on Gardy.
The Twins organization threatened us with leaving if they didn’t get a new stadium. How about if we now return the favor and threaten that we’ll use our new stadium to recruit a decent franchise if the club’s ownership doesn’t actually go out and recruit and keep winning talen?
Twins need a manager!! Someone who knows how to bunt and advance runners. One who cares less about the percentage book and goes with his gut. Go Gardy…please!
Benny makes a great point.
I said this once before in here:
Would you rather have 4 divisions titles since 2000?
Or 1 World Series win and 2 division titles?
The White Sox fans I work with constantly tell me the best answer to that question.
I know pitching is the huge issue, but don’t forget how the offense goes into a coma in the playoffs or play-in (2002 ALCS; 2003, 2004, and 2006 ALDS; game 163).
I don’t see the Twins firing Gardy. Twins have an acute case of “nepotism” and they just don’t bring in outsiders to run this team.
The Twins lack of a “play for more today” attitude is the reason why guys like Michael Restovich and JD Durbin were never traded away for something of value, because the Twins were afraid to give up the future. Last time I checked neither of those “prospects” ever has amounted to anything.
“Poor Gardy! Poor guy, some people want him fired. Don’t they know he DESERVES to stay as long as he wants because he got the Twins to the playoffs a few years? Really, poor guy. It’s not his fault Smith stocked the team with underperformers. I have the solution - let’s fire Bill Smith now (although it will do nothing to improve performance on the field) and spend the next year or two bringing in about 20 new players that can finally win a World Series for Ron Gardenhire. It’s all about him after all; the team would completely fall apart without him at the helm (kind of like they did in ‘05 and ‘07 - but, I’m sure that wasn’t HIS fault…).” Gee, how would ever find another manager that could keep the Twins palying around .500 baseball?? Gotta keep him though. He has such a bad reputation around the League, there’s NO WAY another team would hire him, especially a team that had more money to spend than the Twins.
What to do: Liriano’s problem is confidence, not physical. His attitude affects others. He goes. You can’t have 3 position players hitting 7,8 and 9 and under .200 in any part of the lineup and put any fear in any pitcher or team in late innings, especially if you also have no bench threat to pinch hit, unless you can teach all three speedsters to bunt the lights out. Need more bench position-player hitter and pinch runner strength. Have far too many pitchers and none with plans to pitch 9 innings or more. That has to stop. 5 innings is nuts. If you only pitch 5 you can never pitch 7. You lose more if it takes 5 pitchers to lose a game rather than one pitcher. Start now to gear the very good young pitching staff to 9 innings, win or lose. Could Joe Nathan still go long? Forget the 100 pitch guide. What do you suppose a pitcher is thinking about when he approaches 100 pitches and he is barely half way through the game. The psychology of 100-pitch limit is clear: the opponent knows the pitcher is going to change, the pitcher knows he is nearly done for the day. Dump the notion and strategy. Yes, Span, Gomez (who needs at bats to be effective hitter), Cuddyer. Need Gomez speed threat. Punto’s hitting, up one year, down the next, is a mystery,but excellent infielder and pinch runner. Crede is a great add. Let’s get some complete game shutouts and forget this emphasis on SAVES. The TWINS can win the division with pitchers who can go the distance, win or lose.
Bring both Young and Gomez down, have Cuddyer play right, Span Center, Kubel Left and have Jose Morales DH.
Young and Gomez will learn down there to be patient and develop their raw talent. Gomez was brought up out of necessity, and Young was brought up in an organization who needed stars quick and he needs to be taught good defense and how to use his amazing arm strength and how to judge balls
*Gardy should swallow hard, call Brendan Harris into his office and say, “Brendan, you’re my starting shortstop. Play hard, play loose and play smart and I suspect you can fill that role and give the front office one (and me) less thing to worry about.”
Thanks for the laugh Howard… Gardy can’t even make it through a press conference that Harris has a good game in without finding some way to call him out for some minor mistake. It was so obvious that the Rays broadcasters were even mentioning it on the Sunday game when he missed the hit and run sign and said that maybe it was for the best, but he was probably still going to get an ear full from his manager for missing a sign. But then when Buscher was on base and missed the sign Gardy wasn’t half as mad as he was when Harris missed it. So first start showing some support to all of the players, and if Buscher or Tolbert or even Punto miss a sign call them out.
And on the rotation, stop sticking by Liriano, he is tipping his pitches, so either use this day off to skip him in the rotation or put him in the pen as the long guy, use dickey/henn in his spot and have Anderson work on his mechanics so he can go longer than one time through the lineup. And once he is fixed, repeat the process with Baker, he just isn’t getting hammered as badly as Liriano is right now.
cmath,
a nice synopsis in your 3:28pm post on Delmon Young’s issue. Who cares if FanGraphs shows he swings at x% of pitches outside the strike zone? Every expert out there, which excludes each and every one of us including thrylos, knows he’s late on the 89 mph fastball over the plate at the belly button.
We all want a world series! The question is what is preventing us from making the final leap, year after year. People want to blame Gardy for falling short in the playoffs. Perhaps the offense goes into a coma because the likes of Lew Ford, Nick Punto, Rondell White, Jason Tyner, ext, ext just aren’t good enough hitters to hit great pitching!
We need better depth in our talent. We have some great players, Mauer, Nathan, Morneau, ext. It isn’t our top of the line talent preventing us from winning it all…it is the complimentary players.
Look at the Red Sox lineup. It is hard to figure out who is even considered complimentary. Ellsbury, Pedroia, Ortiz, Bay, Drew, Varitek, Lowell, Youkillis. Then you have a nasty bullpen and a 5 deep solid rotation.
This is what Gardy is managing against!
Scary when I start sounding prophetic…but about this time last year I started saying that despite their young ages…..that I didn’t think Delmon, Gomez and Liriano were going to make it very far in this league. I could be proven wrong, but I think I doubt their future success even more than I did a year ago. There has to be a way to package a couple of them to gain an impact player. This team will peak in the next couple years and I think we would be better off with a proven veteran than waiting on this threesome. I keep hearing Atlanta wants an outfielder - would they entertain trading Escobar. The Giants, Matt Cain, etc. etc. Hopefully something out there presents itself ~
thrylos and pals:
“The Rays and Rockies made it to the post-season with a fraction of the Twins’ budget.”
Good managers can occasionally pull this off. Congrats to Maddon for joining guys like Kelly and Gardenhire on the list of good managers.
Was that your point?
I guess so. Well, the good thing is that Mauer and Morneau are still fairly young, so we can afford to wait another year or two to get the right kind of supporting players in here that will respond to what Gardenhire and staff have to teach.
I thought it might be easier, quicker, and cheaper to maybe try a new manager and see if the players we already have would respond to him and start playing better. But that would be bad for Ron Gardenhire.
I hear the blame on Gardy and some of it may be deserved… but realistically, how would this team’s record be any different over the past 7 years if the manager would have been Torre, LaRussa, Scioscia, Cox…? I really doubt better. I think the blame here is mostly on Billy with the horrendous trades made with the Mets and Rays… Let’s face it, we got fleeced -
Congrats to Maddon for joining guys like Kelly and Gardenhire on the list of good managers.
Last I checked Gardy never made it to a world series as a manager, so you should probably scratch him from that company
One more thing to add here. We need more power pitching. That was the idea behind getting Morillo. That is why we need to keep Crain (and keep trying to coach him to his potential). That is also why trading Matt Garza was very, very dumb, and why the GM should be released.
WJ:
“I thought it might be easier, quicker, and cheaper to maybe try a new manager and see if the players we already have would respond to him and start playing better.”
This is a perfectly sane argument. But since most managers “fail” when measured by the standards expressed by most of us on this blog, we have to realize the odds are horrible that a change will result in an easier, quicker, and cheaper route to our objective of a….well, you know. I personally resist the idea of a change, not because Gardy is a great manager, but because he’s probably a top quartile manager, particularly when you consider all aspects of the job.
I think the blame here is mostly on Billy with the horrendous trades made with the Mets and Rays
Did Bill Smith induce the 2006 post-season choking, while the team was favorite to win the world series?
Here is a fact:
Since the 2006 season, Gardenhire’s team finished at the same position in it’s division as Childress’ team. And the single season they made it to the post-season/playoffs both teams were out after the first competition.
Two differences:
a. Childress’ success was more recent than Gardy’s
b. The same fans want Childress’ head while they think that Gardy is indispensable
In what universe does this make any sense?
Twins fans,
There are some great posts! After reading some of them, some have convinced me to alter my point of view on what needs to be done. I would say to talk about what NEEDS to be done is a moot point if it is impossible. Here are some impossibilities with respect to Twins’ history and current management trends:
1.) No major trade with any significant impact will occur. Any trade would be a quick-fix low-cost, low-risk patch.
2.) The old-school philosophy of “having a strong middle defensively” is stuck on Gardy like green on grass. He sees Punto as a major grade higher than Harris defensively at SS. Offensive shortcomings don’t really mean as much to Gardy when it comes to defending this philosophy. Forget about Harris as a starter. (Although I think Harris should start.)
3.) It will take just as inconceivably long for Gardy to put Liriano to the bull pen this year as he SHOULD have put Liriano in the rotation in 2007. He does not like that move in either direction with his “name” pitchers.
That being said, I’d like to see a trade for Peavy, Harris a starter at SS, and Liriano middle relief.
I hear Clint Hurdle is looking for a job.
Amazing the Rockies had little patience for a manager that took a team to the World Series in 2007.
The Tampa Rays are struggling. Do you guys think they should can their manager? What about Cleveland? Chicago? Los Angeles? The Cubs?
keep swarzak in the rotation. move liriano to the bullpen. release ayala. they gambled and lost on him. i don’t see him turning around this season. hey howard, how does your kid like T-town?
The way I see it, everyone has a solution of their own. Put up the money, buy the club, and call the shots.
thrylos, there’s nothing in your 5:54pm that qualifies as either logical or analogous. In this universe, none of what you wrote makes any sense. Are you unaware of a thing called variables, or do you choose to ignore them when it suits you?
The Twins were favorites to win the World Series in 2006? Really? Give me a bloody break. Especially after Liriano and Radke both came up lame…you cannot be serious.
The Twins were favorites to win the World Series in 2006? Really? Give me a bloody break. Especially after Liriano and Radke both came up lame…you cannot be serious.
here, from the horses’ (East coast Sports Propagating Network) mouths:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2610409
Can we trade Delmon for some older player that is either good at pitching or playing middle infield? I only say older player because Delmon would obviously not fetch a good young player.
He might be a good player some day but his bat seems slow, his depth perception is poor, his D is suspect, well, basically he is terrible right now.
Starting rotation wtf why isn’t that better? Very disappointing so far. Bullpen seems to be improving but not the starters.
Isn’t it amazing how psychotically idiotic the Delmon/Harris for Bartlett/Garza trade looks now? I mean, it looked bad at the time but now it seems insane. Gee. Let’s get two really bad players for two good to really good ones…
Gomez Span and Cuddy should play outfield every day. Kubel should DH every day. Punto should become an over paid utility player. Buscher is regressing. Tolbert sucks basically. Casilla probably is our only infielder that has a chance of being good. Crede needs to stay healthy.
Nice a sample of some peoples opinions. Here is what the real odds were…obviously these are the odds that are dictated by the actual people of this country. Twins were not fav, not even close.
http://linesmaker.com/MLB/a-sportbook-paradise.html
NY Yankees and the NY Mets stand at the top of the board at odds of 3-1 and 5-1 respectively. Last year’s winner, The St. Louis Cards, are a middle-of –the field 15-1 due to a shaky starting pitching staff and an aging outfield. Last season’s American League Champs, the Detroit Tigers, stand at 6-1 odds while the improved Boston Red Sox are 7-1 to take the title. American League playoff teams, the Minnesota Twins and the Oakland Athletics (12-1) are next and the 2006 World Series winner, the St. Louis Cards, are at 15-1 along with the Phillies, Angels, Dodgers, White Sox and Astros in the sportbook.
“”"everyone has a solution of their own. Put up the money, buy the club, and call the shots.”"”
thry, you are the only one who supports your opinions with stats and facts. For that I thank you. DocDon
oops, grabbed the 2007 season odds, let me track down the playoff ones.
AaronK,
your link are the odds to win the 2007 WS, based on 2006 results… in the 3rd paragraph it says:
Fans comprise the majority of the public who, each spring, lay down their hard-earned money on the team they pick to win the 2007 World Series.
and in the 5th:
According to the American line oddsmakers, the NY Yankees and the NY Mets stand at the top of the board at odds of 3-1 and 5-1 respectively. Last year’s winner, The St. Louis Cards, are a middle-of –the field 15-1 due to a shaky starting pitching staff and an aging outfield. Last season’s American League Champs, the Detroit Tigers, stand at 6-1 odds while the improved Boston Red Sox are 7-1 to take the title. American League playoff teams, the Minnesota Twins and the Oakland Athletics (12-1) are next and the 2006 World Series winner, the St. Louis Cards, are at 15-1
wrong season
Preseason odds for Twins in 2006..looked at as a major powerhouse.
2006 MLB Regular Season Wins
Minnestosa Twins Over 82.5 -140
Guys, we are in 2009. Welcome to the present.
Best I could find for playoff odds. Tigers had same odds as Twins. Yankees clear fav while the A’s just behind Twins and Tigers. So Twins were still not fav.
Detroit Tigers 5/1
Los Angeles Dodgers 12/1
Minnesota Twins 5/1
New York Mets 4/1
New York Yankees 3/2
Oakland Athletics 7/1
San Diego Padres 10/1
St Louis Cardinals 10/1
DrDon,
I could not agree more, but all the arguments about how wonderful Gardy is are based on pre October 2006 success. As a matter of fact, I’d love it if everyone comes to the present…
What change to make?
New owners. I’m assuming the blog is meant for personnel and on-field activities, but new owners that will bring in the free agents we need is the key, in my opinion. That would take us from “competing” to ALCS’s and beyond.
DrDon,
Point is simple, Gardy has never had the best team in the league…it is honestly laughable to fire the guy. He is looked apon by his peers as one of the very best in the business.
I don’t think he is a great gameday manger…but I think he is overall a great manager.
I see the Indians are carrying 13 pitchers and 3 catchers.
Why not the Twins?
With Baker and Liriano putting pressure on the BP, and with pressure to give Mauer off days, how can they accept the extra outfielder and infielder situation they’re in?
Bill Smith lucks like a stuffy old nonprogressive.
And get real…….the Twins are in a battle to stay out of last place — only 3 games ahead of the Indians.
We need Morales and Perkins on the 25-man.
Otherwise, I have to believe that Smith is giving up on this season.
AaronK, you are offering stats for the purpose of revealing truth rather than proving your superior expertise. For that I thank you.
How can you not be a great gameday manager but overall a “great” manager?
Dan,
Being a manager of a baseball team is more than just changing pitchers in the 7th. While I think he does a pretty good job of managing the games, I think he really shines in his management of the team overall. His players give him everything they have and they respect him. His character, attitude, and toughness also rubs off on his team.
He brings a lot of great qualities that go beyond that actual strategy of the game.
OK, he gives the team the warm-and-fuzzies, so he’d be a great floor manager at Wal-Mart.
Unfortunately, his gameday decisions are what hurt the team, and that’s why you’ve had fans clamoring for years to get him off this team.
This whole thread is negative, so I want to list the guys who are very reliable. We have a great set of building blocks on this team.
OF: Denard Span, Michael Cuddyer
1B Justin Morneau
C Joe Mauer
P Nathan, Blackburn Slowey
For starting pitchers, Im listing the guys who give us quality starts, or near-quality starts. Swarzak could join the list if he keeps proving it.
My point is we aren’t that far away. We just need solid role players to fill the other positions and play well. This team could win it all next year, or even this year if everything just starts to click.
We have lots of other guys who are coming along. Joe Crede would be on the list but has been bit by the injury bug lately. Guerrier and Mijares are both really good. Baker has got the stuff but not the confidence. Perkins and Liriano - they are a few adjustments from getting really good again.
I think he really shines in his management of the team overall. His players give him everything they have and they respect him. His character, attitude, and toughness also rubs off on his team.
So, you don’t think that he has a doghouse and his cossets in the team?
And don’t you think that really hurt the team last September? ie. playing Punto (.653 OPS for the month) over Everett (.764 OPS), Butcher (.578 OPS) over Harris (.878 OPS) and Cuddyer (.667 OPS) over Ruiz (.790 OPS the previous month and only 2 games in September)
Do you think that Ortiz, Garza, Romero, Lohse, et. al. really respect him?
xahstar, I agree. And if Baker and Liriano straighten out (which I don’t expect), things could go pretty good. Until then — and even after then — we need those solid role players you talk about. But instead, we have:
The Young/Gomez thing that is unproductive.
And Buscher.
And the replicating Tolbert/Punto thing.
And it looks like we’re heading to last place to me.
“How can you not be a great gameday manager but overall a “great” manager?”
A valid question, Dan. I don’t think you can, personally. My questions are: 1)if you’re a strong clubhouse manager and an average gameday manager, are you a bad manager, and 2)exactly where are all these arguments about how wonderful Gardy is as a manager? That is a figment of someone’s very unfertile imagination. What would you guess the ratio is of positive vs. negative opinions regarding Gardy on this blog? Go ahead and call the neutral comments positive ones before you guess.
thry-
Can’t forget his unwillingness to move a struggling Gomez from leadoff to 9th last year because it would “mess with the guy’s confidence.” So we left an insufficent leadoff hitter in his spot because Gardy didn’t want to hurt his feelings.
Agreed Mr. bird.
Great article Howard,
It seems there is just one reporter of the three that asks the questions we want asked. It is getting very frustrating to see 5-6 guys in the lineup performing really good and the rest just dragging them down night after night. I really hope that Smith is trying hard to go outside for middle infield help. The problem is that he is probably gun shy as one more bad trade will totally seal his legacy here.
Dan,
While I will not disagree with you on his game management, I think the overriding problem right now is too many players that don’t seem prepared to play the game - too many dumb mistakes, no life on the basepaths, lethargic at-bats, etc..
Regarding Delmon, I am thinking the best advice to give him right now is “Do not listen to anything the coaches tell you. Just get up there and let ‘er rip! The guy obviously had his initial success on natural ability and talent. They should let him get by on it now.
thrylos98,
I ask this with respect butjust so we can all set are alarm clocks accordingly at what numbre will you decide using Delmon’s age as part of his excuse? I just want to know how long you expect the Twins, or any other franchise, to stick with Delmon no matter what his actual production is due to his age.
And since you have used Delmon’s:
1)youth
2) the Twins manager
3) Twins hitting coach
4) lack of steady playing time
5) tendency for slow starts
6) his injuries last year
7) his mother’s death this year (God rest her soul)
other players his age similar struggles
9) Cuddy’s 2007 season
10) The Rays organization
11) The Twins not playing him in RF
And others I’m sure I’ve forgotten, a question remains… more like a friendly challenge between Twins fans. I challenge you to identify one or two things that are actually Delmon’s fault for his performance as a Twin. Not to be mean but just as solid “critical” baseball analysis. Can you do it?
WJ-
The lack of activity on the basebaths is one huge knock against Gardy this year and last. People generally regard the Twins as one of the faster teams in baseball. Punto, Gomez, Span, and Casilla have Great speed. Why, then, do we never steal? These guys need to be stealing all the damn time and creating better scoring opportunities for us. Why Gardy fails to give the steal sign to his 3B coach is beyond me.
Dan–
two reasons for lower steal numbers-
1. you can’t steal 1st base… I think Span is the only one who has consistantly gotten on base so you kind of have to be on base to steal one
2. they probably missed a sign, it is a trend =)
Dan, We seem to have turned into the White Sox: get on base, stand on base, wait for someone to drive you in.
I challenge you to identify one or two things that are actually Delmon’s fault for his performance as a Twin. Not to be mean but just as solid “critical” baseball analysis. Can you do it?
For one, I do not think that he takes enough fly balls at left field. Do you remember how Koskie turned from an atrocious defender to a good one by taking extra fielding practice? Delmon’s got to to that
Also, as WJ said above, he probably listens to too many people and starts thinking on the batter’s box, instead of letting it rip. Take batting practice with a machine, find something that works and use it.
I realize you can’t steal first, and 3 of the 4 guys I’ve mentioned have not gotten on base much, but with the speed we have, we need to see more stolen bases. Pedrio stole a few bases in the R.Sox series and Tampa was obviously a well-running team, and we saw them creat more opportunities by advancing their guys. Stealing bases is small-ball, and I thought that was the “Twins’ way?”
Here are some changes I would make. We have some outstanding players & some solid players, however we also run out some sub-par players every game. If we can add more quality depth to our team it can only strengthen it for this year & the future. Buscher & Tolbert do not look like long time answers in the infield. Trade, send down or release them…. whichever is the best for the team. Tell Casilla & Harris “you are the man” @ 2nd & SS respectively. They both can be at least league average (I hope). Punto becomes one of the best (& overpaid) late inning defensive replacements (for Harris) & utility player…. this would include some OF work. Call up Morales as a 3rd catcher….. this would allow Mauer to ALWAYS be available as a pinch hitter on his day off & Morales is less of an offensive drop off on Mauer’s days off as catcher. A player either has special talent or he does not. If Crede goes on DL, you call up Valencia not Buscher. Send Gomez to AAA to see if he can harness his HUGE potential. Years ago, the Twins had a player leading a High A league in hitting was called up from Visalia (Kent Hrbek), ….call up Revere & stick him in left & bat him 8th or 9th & see what happens. He won a batting title last year & is leading again. Pitching, strongly consider going down to 12 pitchers. Give the bum’s rush to Ayala, trade or “phantom” DL Crain. Making a big assumption that Swarzak continues to produce, move a “power arm” to the bullpen…. Liriano, when Perkins comes back. Don’t be afraid to call up Slama &/or Delaney if needed. Liriano & rubber-arm Dickey can pitch a few innings, allowing one less pitcher ( Henn?) & allow an extra position player. Batting order: Span cf, Mauer c, Morneau 1b, Cuddyer rf, Kubel dh, Crede 3b, Harris ss, Revere lf, & Casilla 2b. Bench: Young, Morales, Redmond & Punto. Cuddyer is emergency middle infielder in case of injury. Punto also emergency OF in case of injury. Young & Morales are primary PH. Pitching: Starters - Baker, Slowey, Blackburn, Perkins & Swarzak. Bullpen: Nathan as closer. Long relief- Dickey & Liriano. Late inning left/ Mijares. Late inning right/ Guerrier. Other: one or two of the following; Henn, Crain, Slama, Delaney, Duensing. Perhaps we can get by with 11 pitchers? ( Adding another bench player.) Oh well, just some ideas that will never see the light of day. Bottom line, let’s try some of our “high potential” young players such as Revere, Slama & Delaney.
i guess this is fun for an off day. i havent been able to read all the posts, but still, i think way too much panic here. bottom line: they stunk up the joint on the road, had their middle relief implode much of the first 2 months following a SP rotation that hasnt helped matters BUT are still in the thick of things, thanks to our hitting.
is DY cold? YES, but he’s 23, is cold every start of the season, and just had a family trajedy. he WILL rebound - there is nothing in his background to not suggest he’ll rebound.
Gogomez is 22? 23? he’s making baby steps and has a lot to contribute all around despite poor hitting. Maybe send him down, but i think the wiser people say his defense is too valuable to lose on the roster.
Liriano shows flashes of brilliance, maybe send him down to correct his mechanics (and head) but he needs to stay as SP.
Punto … sighs … i think we’re stuck with him, but every lineup has holes.
” Strongly consider going down to 11 pitchers”
” Perhaps we can get by with 10 pitchers”.
I would package Liriano and Young in a trade deal and get some relief help.
If you bring up a couple of kids from Rochester or even AA to take the place of Buscher, Tolbert they are going to play alot. Maybe not everyday, but they will play enough to warrant their being on the big club.
Interesting takes Howard. Reading over the many suggestions by everyone it seems all I can add at this point is this:
Barring a miracle/change in philosophy/departure from past history/sudden influx of players who are actually “trade bait”, the changes must come from within (just at they did in 2006).
Which is why I suggest Delmon to the bench for a Span/Go-Go/Cuddy OF. Let Carew sit on one side of Gomez and Span on the other. Carew can’t reach Delmon. Only Delmon can so let him decide on his own what kind of player he wants to be.
Second, unless the Phillies are still interested in Punto :), Harris gets the call at short with Punto backing up at SS & 2nd & 3rd. Still will give him some playing time that way. If he says “I signed to be the starting SS” Gardy and BS can reply that signed him to actually get more than one hit a week”. Crede gets 3rd with plenty of “rest” time to protect him for the long hall.
2nd is Lexi’s until a trade can be made or he comes so bad that Punto or Tolbert actually look good by comparison.
If the roster stays as is Mauer has to hit 2nd.
Mauer’s availability is issue number one. Without him the team has no chance to even contend. So either Morales has to come up and go with three catcher or Red-dog has to go. It’s a tough call because the franchise and many Twins want to be loyal to Red the way they hope Mauer will be loyal to the Twins when it comes contract time.
BP, they have their setup guy in Jose. Guerrier is 7th or 8th. Dickey long relief or spot start, Crain can be 6th or mop-up (if he can’t be traded) along with Ayala. Henn has earned situational duty.
As for the roation (again barring a trade for a Oswalt or Peavy) Baker just has to figure it out. The question about Frankie is it seems like he would be the most likely of the bunch to not handle the “demotion” to the pen well. We already heard complaining from his agent when he was in the minors last season and feeling a bit sorry for himself now. So Perkins or Frankie might come down to options and Perks health.
Here’s hoping that Uggla, Roberts, Sanchez, Oswalt or Peavy could change this rosters makeup in a hurry. Otherwise Bill Smith should be updating his resume.
Go Twins!
“”"”"thrylos98 says:
June 1st, 2009 at 6:47 pm
DrDon,
I could not agree more, but all the arguments about how wonderful Gardy is are based on pre October 2006 success. As a matter of fact, I’d love it if everyone comes to the present…”"”"”
thry, I have never said how great of a manager nor how wonderful Gardy is. All I have ever said was, Gardy does the best with what he is handed. And that gets back to a couple of things I have stated in the past…. #1, Gardy is the Manager of the players he is handed, and #2, the FO hands to Gardy what he has to deal with. Do I think Gardy does a good job? Yes, I do. Is Gardy handed a winning poker hand??? NO!!!!
“Send Gomez to AAA to see if he can harness his HUGE potential. ”
I fully agree coco. I hear over and over and over again how 5-tooled this guy is, how great he is, how he’s our best option, and I just haven’t seen it yet. Casilla may have benefited from his little AAA-trip, why haven’t we tried that with Gomez yet? Gomez as an MLB CF is the equivalent of T-Jack as an NFL QB. Neither exhibit the mechanics of a pro at their position. Let Gomez go to AAA and prove he’s a quality talent, then bring him up here when he’s ready.
I would like to see the Twins bat .305 with runners in scoring position again like last year…that would cure most ills
Honestly, with one of Perkins, Swarzak or Liriano moving to the pen, we do not need to overhaul our bullpen. One arm (either Delaney or a trade) could shore it up.
I am concerned about our middle infield. Is Gruzy available? I think we could find a decent 2nd basemen easier than a SS- and we could let Harris, Casilla and Punto battle for the SS spot. But we cant have 3 of Casilla, Punto, Tolbert, Gomez or Young in our lineup every night.
Gomez as an MLB CF is the equivalent of T-Jack as an NFL QB
How about Gomez as an MLB CF is the equivalent of Randy Moss as an NFL WR?
He is probably the best CF in the game defensively, but he takes plays off with the bat.
“Only Delmon can…”
Well said, kirby91. Delmon’s going through this life change re his mom. He has to figure himself out.
A career .290 hitter for all practical purposes, he has a hot ST, then the last couple weeks of ST he starts going downhill and has never recovered.
Coincidental to the realization of his mom’s illness?
romer,
that’s a great point…
I wouldn’t go that far with Gomez. He doesn’t have the talent equivalent of a Moss. And I don’t think he takes plays off, his effort is truly there, he just sucks most of the time. He’s got very raw skills, the kind you can’t teach, but it’s the mechanics that doom him at the plate.
Thrylos… good points on actual problems with Delmon Young.
His hitting approach is not good, and his attitude has shown that he is stubborn, and not a loose ball player to begin with. Couple this with the fact that his mother was dying of cancer, and he is a fiercely loyal family guy who worshiped his parents Delmon is in a serious funk in all aspects of his game, and I think sending him down to AAA where he will have no pressure on him, and a chance to clear his head, and just swing 4-5 times a day… and a chance to play every day will be key for him to get his head as close to right as humanly possible.
I’ve been against the Garza trade, but not against Delmon as a player… the kid has the potential, and at 23 I can’t justify dropping him, but what Gardy and Smith are doing don’t seem to be in his best interest, or the team’s best interest. He needs playing time and will not get better by being used sparatically.
sending him down to AAA
he has no options left
thrylos98,
Interesting thoughts. But there is something curious about your second “suggestion”. First, I don’t think you will find many people in the Twins organization or from those of us who watch the games on regualr basis who see Delmon’s at bat and say “that guy is just thinking too much at the plate”. Actually it’s the opposite. A guy with no clear and solid plan just hack away at anything thrown up there. Last year he was a singles hitter to right. So the Twins, rightfully, said “Delmon, your a strong young man who need to turn on the pitch you can pull with authority”. Delmon’s response of course was to try to pull every pitch thrown with 5 feet of the plate. That’s not over thinking, that’s hard headed and dare I say uncoachable. But this is not the first time that has been said about him by bloggers, media or management for that matter.
I wish Delmon no ill will. In fact we’d all rather be talking about how he’s become one of the best young players in the game, but this may just be a case where the only way that will happen is for Delmon to get a new start somewhere else.
Maybe it will be a win-win but only if Delmon noticed that a serious wake is being left behind him.
We really need to stop pissing and moaning about Young and Gomez.
They haven’t played well, but that isn’t why we are 4 and a half games out. Most teams and fans would love to have youthful talent like those guys. One or both of them may not turn out to be worth a hill of beans in the end, but I will take them over the Jason Tyner and Lew Fords or the world. At least there is hope that they will turn out to be something.
thrylos… Gomez has much better character than Moss, and no where near the talent because in the end the game is about scoring and Moss scores a boat load of TDs… Gomez as a WR comparison should look to be moved to CornerBack because he can prevent the deep ball, but he can’t score the points.
the only way that will happen is for Delmon to get a new start somewhere else
I would agree with you, but would suggest that he has a new start with the Twins as their full-time right fielder with a new manager and coaches…
thrylos98 writes…
And don’t you think that really hurt the team last September? ie. playing Punto (.653 OPS for the month) over Everett (.764 OPS), Butcher (.578 OPS) over Harris (.878 OPS) and Cuddyer (.667 OPS) over Ruiz (.790 OPS the previous month and only 2 games in September)
I find it a bit ironic that this argument is coming from someone who has been pushing for Delmon Young (OPS .557) over Michael Cuddyer (OPS .877)
in the end the game is about scoring
I thought the game is all about pitching and defense
I find it a bit ironic that this argument is coming from someone who has been pushing for Delmon Young (OPS .557) over Michael Cuddyer (OPS .877)
not quite…
I am pushing about trading Cuddyer and his .877 OPS high (Because it will decline) and playing Young (and his .557 OPS) because it will rise. And this is June not September
In watching Cleveland tonight, I take back what I said above.
The Indians look like your last place team in the Central this year.
Sizemore’s injury is the last blow to them.
Breslow is pitching against the White Sux tonight.
Best wishes to him.
Delmon Young’s OPS has gotten worst every year he has been in the majors. That is a cause for concern. We can talk about his mom’s death (RIP), lack of playing time, or whatever excuse we want to come up with. Bottom line is he is not getting better with age…he is getting worst.
You wanted Cuddy on the bench in favor of Young long before his OPS was on the rise. Now, with that said I am in complete agreement that trading Cuddy and going back to Span/GoGo/Young would be the best longterm solution.
Sad to say, I think Delmon is a lost cause this year. Who knows, maybe he will have a second half like last year- but the kid had to watch his mom die this spring. While as a fan it sucks to have a guy that we hoped would be performing well playing horrible, it would suck a lot more to lose a mother.
So cut the guy some slack, let him be the 4th/5th outfielder… work on his defense, maybe get a start against a lefty here or there. Next season, if he is still this bad, then we can get on him.
I liked Breslow.
This is why I think it is so important to solve the OF situation. This idea that you can have 4 starters for 3 spots is BS. It never works. Move Cuddy and let Young and GoGO get experience and become the players we all hope they can be.
I’m not ready to start “hope” at 2 of 3 outfield positions
Dan- you only have to in 1 of 3. Span and Cuddy are fine.
Yankees are going for a major league record right now to get 18 consecutive errorless games. There are 3 outs to go.
So, if they have a great defense, great offense, and their starting pitching continues to impress, who can beat ‘em?
“”"”"Dan says:
June 1st, 2009 at 9:04 pm
I liked Breslow.”"”"”
I liked Ron Davis, lot of good it did us.
The first change I’d make would be to make Harris the every day SS, and make 2B a platoon between all the rest of the scrubs. Next, I’d send down Gomez and call up the most MLB ready outfielder (Pridie?). I’d love to send Young down, but if he’s out of options, I guess they better not.
Ryan-
I agree Cuddy is fine, but AaronK suggested we move Cuddy and start Span/Young/Gomez so Gomez/Young get experience and become the players “we all hope they can be.”
Which is where I commented that I’m not ready to have 2 out of 3 OF starters be “hope-based”
romer… the Dodgers.
We did plenty fine with Gomez, Span, and Young in the OF last year. The issue with this team is not OF, it is starting pitching, ext relief, and middle infield. That is why moving Cuddy could help us solve the OF position and possibly give us some help in one of those areas.
AaronK is on something if he thinks we can get anything for Cuddy. He is overpaid and under contract for two seasons. If we get anything, it will be for prospects… we have pitching.
Dan says: “I’m not ready to start “hope” at 2 of 3 outfield positions”
Ryan replies: “Dan- you only have to in 1 of 3. Span and Cuddy are fine.”
Are you guys “quoting” Gardy at the Fargo farm implement trade show?
BOP- no, I have just given up any expectation from Young this year. Either the death of his mom has shaken him up or he is just bad… at this point it does not really matter.
“AaronK is on something if he thinks we can get anything for Cuddy.”
I wonder how close he lives to thry?
:)>
Delmon would do well with a new start in Atlanta - and the Twins would do well with Yunel Escobar at SS in return.
I have tried to check in on trish’s blog several times today. No game, everyone has “No Game Withdrawal Symptoms”. So, let’s do this… All in favor of firing Ron Gardenhire, say Aye………If not say Naye.
I’ll Start with a NAYE.
“We did plenty fine with Gomez, Span, and Young in the OF last year. The issue with this team is not OF, it is starting pitching …”
you could reverse this and say the twins did plenty fine with the starting pitching last year. but it’s not last year, it’s this year.
I guess I still don’t understand the continued ‘hate’ on Cuddyer. How long have people been saying this team needs a RH hitter with a little pop. Now that he’s providing that, people want to get rid of him.
If you’re prepared to give up on the season, OK, fine.
But if you’re still thinking in terms of making a run, I simply do not understand why you’d get rid of the one RH hitter that’s producing. Makes no sense whatsoever.
Trade both Delmon and Gomez if that’s what it takes to get Escobar. Kubel is a better hitter than Gomez and a better left fielder than Delmon. Can’t trade Cuddaver, so he’s in right, Span in CF and Kubel in Left. Not ideal, but better than what we have with DY and Go-ing South. Plus with Escobar up the middle we’d be better overall.
Wishful thinking ~
I wouldn’t call what happened last year with the OF “fine” either
JimCrikket….. BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Does anyone else find it ironic that prior to the start of the season, most of us were far less certain about Cuddyer and Span than we were about Young and Gomez? (Actually, some of the real experts here were real CERTAIN that Cuddyer was washed up, and that Span was a flash in the pan.
And does anyone agree with me that it appears that Gardy’s lack of concern about Span’s tough spring and Cuddyer’s rough start were justified? I hope Gomez and Young turn it around, and I hope Billy Smith dangles Cuddyer at the deadline, for prospects. But Gardy has handled a crappy situation fairly well.
“Delmon would do well with a new start in Atlanta - and the Twins would do well with Yunel Escobar at SS in return.”
but trying to trade a guy at .239/.282/.275 does not exactly put a team in a position of strength.
Naye
I would be fine with moving Young too…I just think it brings more risk. Bottom line is someone needs to go.
Delmon is out of options already?
Package Delmon and Gomez to Atlanta for Escobar - they reportedly want outfielders. We have two that suck….but maybe if they combine them somehow into one person you would have a Golden Glove centerfielder who hits .290 with 1 HR.
Hey Mickey Mental, didn’t you hear that Delmon and Gomez were ONLY 23, and they have HIGH CEILINGS, and unlimited 5-TOOLl potential and did I mention they are only 23… doesn’t that put us in a position of strength to trade them?!
Agreed, the bottom line on DY and Go-go is that yes… they are only 23 - BUT, Carlos will never be able thit and Delmon will never be even an average fielder. The upside talk on them needs to stop - guys, they ain’t gonna get there. Cut bait, package them and trade….
Agreed x2, they haven’t shown much this year to indicate that this “upside” exists
Great posts today. Great thread Howard. I’m usually a lurker, read comments and will submit sometimes. Too often we post the same talking points over and over. Well thought out ideas and suggestions.
Should Gardy be fired? Tough one. Is he part of the problem or part of the solution. I tend to agree with what someone said earlier. Not a great in game manager but his players respect and they work hard for him. Last year the team overachieved, and Gardy deserved some of the credit. With almost the same team they are def underachieving. In fact I would say the addition of Crede this team is better. Kubel, Mauer, Morny are all giving better production and we’re only treading water. IMO he deserves some of the blame. He does play favorites. He is stubborn. Like playing Harris at 2nd and Punto at SS when in the same lineup because he didn’t want to “tinker with things”. Harris is better at SS and Punto is better at 2nd than SS. He also deserves a lot of criticism for Punto being resigned. I don’t think he handled the outfield situation very well. I could go on with my observations on Gardy, but this is getting long enough. In my humble opinion, for a team with higher expectations, we are not doing as well as we should be. Another thing to consider, we play well at home. So we know we have the talent to compete but have one of the worst records in baseball on the road. In my mind that means the roster has enough talent. Also the Twins normally start slow, so I think Gardy deserves the opportunity to turn things around. Having said that, I don’t think it’s wrong for fans to start to question whether he should be our manager. And if this team doesn’t play better, especially on the road, then I would put myself in the fire Gardy camp.
and Breslow is getting tacked with his second hard luck loss of the stint over there…. you guys thing Jesse Crain is bad, Santigo Casilla is worse than Crain and Ayala could dream up….
LOL, at age 23 Span couldn’t even hit minor league pitching. It is so easy to sit here and laugh at the kids now, but I bet one of them becomes a big star if not both of them.
It’s funny… people around here STILL talk about what a terrible “message” it sent to Hunter and Santana a couple of years ago when Luis Friggin Castillo was traded at the deadline… how those “stars” saw that as an indication that the Twins were giving up on the season and, once again, “playing for tomorrow, not today.”
Now, as it comes time to try to convince Joe Mauer he should sign a reasonable extension… the Twins are supposed to trade the one RH hitter who’s actually… you know… HITTING.
And why? Because some years he’s been banged up and didn’t hit this well and because there are a couple of young guys that people HOPE will figure out how to make contact with a pitch once in a while.
Seems to me that trading Cuddyer would send the exact message that so many people complain about… that we’re going to sacrifice possible success this season in the hopes of having success in the future.
Mickey…
There is no shot at us getting the SS from Atlanta. He’s still considered a top prospect where right or wrong Delmon Young is damaged goods to the eyes of a lot of people in the game. I have a friend who is a scout in Cali and he said that Young as a AAA talent would be worth a lot, but as a major league disappointment his value might not bring a AA B-rated prospect. Major league teams will take Delmon if he goes on Waivers, and possibly free agency, but they are not willing to trade for him. We lost the lottery trading for him so far. If he’s out of options though that throws me for a huge loop as what we can do with him.
“and that Span was a flash in the pan”
Ha! But yeah, I had a sinking feeling too when he had his miserable ST, etc.
I’d convert Morales into a 2nd baseman. The kid can hit better than anyone we’ve had at 2nd so far this year.
It was fair to question Span before the year. He had burst on the scene last year and gave us a great half season or so. He then stunk it up again in spring training and gave many of us thoughts of his minor league days.
This guys has just proven he needs something big to play for. That little stuff isn’t exciting enough. Works for me, he has proven he belongs now.
JimC
That’s a fair point. Trading Cuddy could have the same impact but I personally don’t think it would. First it would depend on who we got back. If we traded Cuddy for guys that can contribute right now, that would be very different than what we traded Castillo for. Second, Mauer has seen productive play at the major league level from both Young and Gomez. Both did very well in the second half of last year. I personally believe both Gomez and Young would turn things around and play well if given the chance. And we might find this out if Cuddy’s doesn’t recover quickly from this latest injury.
I know NOTHING!!!!!! (me and Sgt. Schultz)
lot’s of angst today without losing a game! good job howard you have everyone mad today.
The fact is Gomez and Young are 23 and in their second and third full years of Major League baseball, when most other players their age in pro ball are still looking at a year or two more in the minors before they’ll be ready to contribute to a Major League franchise.
I guess Delmon and Carlos are in that very rare group of players that if they are not superstars by 23, you can declare with congfidence that they will never even be average players in the majors.
AaronK:
“It was fair to question Span before the year.”
And it’s fair to give Gardy credit for NOT questioning Span, for NOT questioning Cuddyer, for seemingly questioning Casilla, and Young, etc. We can also give Gardy a little grief for a whole raft of things, like his stubborn insistence on sticking to his philosophies that lead him to lineups that drive us nuts, such as Gomez #1 and Mauer #3 behind Casilla. Balance. And in balance, we have a good manager and a slightly inferior team right now.
Walter, it is amazing how quickly people turn on these guys. They are both so darn close to being real good imo. You can see they are slowly starting to command the strike zone better and better. I really think results are not too far away.
Couldn’t have said it better myself Walter. Some of these guys are the same people that were writing off Kubel. Kubel at this time was batting around .245 with an OPS of .700. Kubel still has to hit lefties better to become an “elite” player, but what a difference a year of play makes.
birdofprey
Many good managers get fired all the time.
They need to stop thingin they are built on pitching and defense. They suck at both. Gardy thinks they can win that way because he took over TK’s pre-made division champs who were schooled properly. A game doesn’t go by that these twins do something a tk team would never do. Tk would also have fielding practice after games if nessesary. I don’t want him let go in season, but please don’t call him top 3-4 manager… lou, madden, and torre would never get this little prodution from this talent.
birdofprey,
Fair point, but I am a Gardy supporter as is evident in this thread. However, one can argue that Cuddyer was given that extra time to work through his hitting struggles that the other 2 were not given. It took Cuddy a long time to get going this year as well and he was actually performing worst then Young and Gomez for sometime. If the others had full time AB’s all season I am sure the numbers would look much better too. After all Young has always been a .700-.810 OPS guy.
I can understand questioning Gomez hitting ability, he hasn’t shown much upside yet. However, Delmon Young finished last year hitting .290, which is pretty good. I believe that if he played everyday he would calm down at the plate and be a better hitter, even if he never produces HR’s like the Twins believed he would.
Aaron K.,
I think if anything has been proven this year, it is that Delmon is not a player who can play three times a week and still put up numbers you would expect of an everyday player.
Aaron K.,
Excellent point on Cuddyer. He was in the lineup everyday, no matter what, and finally after about six weeks he started to produce. Has Delmon even played three games in a row this year?
AaronK:
“If the others(Gomez and Young) had full time AB’s all season I am sure the numbers would look much better too.”
Probably so, but would either have been a better alternative at the time to Cuddyer? Anyone participating on this blog who thinks they know the answer to this question is a precocious know-it-all. I’ll go with the manager’s decision, regardless of who that manager is, over thrylos or others of that ilk. There are a lot of really knowledgeable fans contributing on here, includind and especially thrylos and his ilk, but they don’t know sh*t compared to Gardy and his ilk.
“”"”"JP says:
June 1st, 2009 at 10:12 pm
birdofprey
Many good managers get fired all the time.”"”"”
They are all good until they get fired.
“and Breslow is getting tacked with his second hard luck loss…”
Yeah, he pitched 1-1/3 scoreless. Then they started getting to him in the third inning he was in.
holy cow, Howard created a monster with this post today. Nearly 400 comments on an off day!
Let me just say for the record that I don’t think Gardenhire is a horrible manager. He is probably above average. But I don’t think he is in that untouchable range.
I suggested he be fired as a way to shake up the team. It’s easier to change one manager than 10-15 players that are not playing well for that manager. Twins have never played consistently well under Gardenhire. They start off poorly and either stay that way all year (2005, 2007) or make a miraculous push to win the division or almost win the division (2006, 2008).
Lol good one doc!
Pretty naive bop to think that Gardy is omniscient when it comes to baseball. That is pretty extreme. As I stated before I think Gardy is a good manager. He also is the corporate manager of the Twins. Worked his way up the ladder so to speak. With some of the baseball minds that post around here, I don’t think it’s unrealistic to say that some of them could achieve the same success as manager.
As I posted before I’m not currently in the fire Gardy camp. But I don’t dismiss someone for entertaining the thought or trying to put forth an arguement for why they think Gardy should be replaced. I try to have an open mind. As I said before, I think Gardy should be given the chance to turn things around. This team has enough talent to win the division. If they don’t I think many things should be evaluated, including whether Gardy should be manager moving forward.
birdofprey,
Why do you have to go negative on other contibutors all the time?
Romer–
What I meant was this is the 2nd time since Breslow has been in Oakland that he has pitched well, got lifted with a runner on base for Casilla and Casilla gave it up, and then some…. Like I said, just be glad the Twins don’t have Santiago Casilla, he is the human gas can…. Crain has nothing on him
Liriano would be good in the pen if he accepts it he has been pretty solid the first time through the opponents batting order but struggles when they see him for the second time check out his performances in the first two innings this year
JP:
“Pretty naive bop to think that Gardy is omniscient when it comes to baseball.”
I have never said Gardy is omniscient. I’ve simply pointed out that you and I are NOT omniscient, and I wonder why so many contributors go negative on the managers and players all the time.
birdofprey, what’s your point? We don’t know as much as Gardehire so we can’t comment? Might as well shut all the blog’s down then.
So, you think I am a know-it-all if me or JP suggests Young might have better numbers today if he had started almost every game for the first month as Cuddyer had? Elaborate, please.
I agree. But as you said before we need balance.
“There are a lot of really knowledgeable fans contributing on here, includind and especially thrylos and his ilk, but they don’t know sh*t compared to Gardy and his ilk.”
You might not have used the exact words omniscient, but that’s the tone you create.
I think passionate fans want wins. I also think this is a good way to vent, in fact a great outlet to vent. Much better than kicking the cat or worse. My advise is not to take it so personally.
You guys really want Bill Smith to try to make a trade? Hasn’t he screwed up every acquisition so far?
Face it. This team is not very good. The pitchers are not as good as we thought they were.
Time to play the kids. Trade Crede, Cuddyer, Punto, and any other veteran and go young. Bring up Valencia to play 3B - find a young SS - let Casilla play - put DYoung in RF - his natural position.
Everyone is so down on DYoung as a LF - well put him in RF his natural position and then let’s judge him. Management has done nothing good but wet down their leg with the handling of this roster the past 2 years.
Good night everybody.
I agree with a lot of what Jason said earlier. But, not about comparing Johan Santana to Francisco Liriano. Yes, Johan worked his way to stardom out of the bullpen…but he didn’t have to work through Tommy John surgery like Liriano has. He needs to be moved out of the rotation…but I’m not sure that will cure his loss of velocity and command. He’s a guy who has to hit his spots now…opposed to being a power pitcher. The jury’s still out…but can he reinvent himself? Time will tell…but the indications in 2009 aren’t promising.
Hearty agreement with the suggestion that Mr. Punto ought to make further acquaintance with the bench. Harris may not be a beacon of hope, but he is certainly an improvement. Also, think you are sage to wait a while before climbing aboard the Swarzack bus.
thrylos98 says:
I would agree with you, but would suggest that he has a new start with the Twins as their full-time right fielder with a new manager and coaches.
Yeah, that what should happen. The Twins should get rid of their coaches and manager so as to appease their 4th best outfielder. One with debatable potential. And in so doing risk alienating their franchise players )and Gardy supporters) Mauer, Morneau, Nathan and on and on.
All of this upheaval should happen on the “hunch” that Delmon would suddenly become a good/great player? Now that is unsound advice.
Let’s just stop enabling the kid and hope for his sake that at least a dose of tough love would make him grow up at a pro baseball player.
Thry: You gotta love your optimism for Young. It’s always endearing to see people root for the underdog, even when they finish last. Kind of like Cubs fans until the 90s. And Delmon is in a Cub-like funk–statistically the worst outfielder in baseball.
Delmon’s OPS will not rise without a radical mechanical change to his hitting. He had an .800+ OPS after May last year. So what did he do? He totally changed his stance coming into spring training–which I described in my 3:28 post. Despite the fact that he is unable to hit a major league fastball with his new approach, he refuses to change back to the approach that made him a good hitter in the second half last year. It’s this pig headedness that makes me question whether he will ever be a decent major league player.
The Twins should get rid of their coaches and manager so as to appease their 4th best outfielder.
hmmmm
that’s not the point I was trying to make.
I think that the Twins should get rid of the “continuity uber all” attitude (heck, continuity didn’t result to any world series titles the last 17 years; and if anyone is a proponent of that continuity is a proponent of mediocrity)
Walter,
Questioning Gardenhire is great. I ask the same questions others do. Sometimes I think he’s wrong. Example: he should have sat Cuddyer a lot more early in the season when he struggled. I agreed with JP that Young and Gomez would probably have had better numbers with more AB’s. The opinion I criticize is from those who are so sure the results with Gomez or Young in the lineup instead of Cuddyer would have been better. Some contributors think they know this to be a certainty. I don’t believe they are omniscient.
To elaborate, Walter, remember that I didn’t rain on your parade when you opined that Span might be a one-season fluke. But had you concluded this, and proceeded to fill me in on what an idiot Gardy was for not embracing your wisdom, then you would have qualified as a know-it-all. And like I said earlier, your view that replacing Gardy might serve a purpose? Not a problem.
Hell, sit Delmon next to Morneau. Did you see what MVP told Sid Harman?
He now chokes up when there’s 2 strikes on him.
thrylos98,
Of course that would not be the reason they haven’t won any WS titles in 17 years. That would be their lack of realization that not pitching to contact rather power pitching (Viola, Bert in ‘87 & Morris, Erickson in ‘91) balanced with patient power hitting is what wins in the post season. Not pitching to contact and an undisciplined slap hitters who need 4 hits in an inning to score a run.
And it’s not coaching that has him missing fastballs that are right down the middle of the plate. After all the times we’ve heard that coaching is over rated in the pro ranks of sports it is a weak crutch used by you (and Delmon if he feels that way) that Gardy and Joe Vavra are holding him back from being a good hitter.
But he’s only 23 so he still has plenty of time to continue under achieving and letting his career go down the toilet and let apologists continue to pretend that Delmon was on the road for Cooperstown until the Twins management derailed him.
Go Twins!
romer,
Saw that. That can’t be true because as Delmon has taught us the Twins coaches tell them what to do on every pitch. Players aren’t allowed to figure things out for themselves.
Hope instead of resenting him and Mauer and Span for “playing the Twins way” Delmon, Go-GO (Who just ins’t aware enough to notice it) and Lexi can take a page from their book and get this team going.
it’s not giving up on delmon and gomez to say that their trade value is low at the moment. just like cuddyer’s trade value is low because his contract is too rich.
the point is that the twins have limited options unless they’re willing to trade core players.
Howard,
I agree with every suggested change you outlined…exactly right.
However the larger problem cant be fixed, the fact that the FO completely blew it last off season. All Twins holes could have been filled..and for dirt cheap..quality players..it’s inexusable that they sat pat and did nothing besides sign Crede..that was a given…but so were the others..and nothing was done..they made their bed and now they’re laying in it..guys that were hot in May can’t keep that up all yr. When they cool..not pretty..this could have been a 95 game winning team this yr and next..and now? looking more and more like .500 at best and 3rd place. It’s a sad state of affairs..what a waste of two hall of famers in their primes, plus a tremendous closer..
Simply put, the Twins need to go out and get a front line starter. Don’t get me wrong–they do need to make other moves:
–Steve Tolleson in at 2B and Casilla to Rochester
–Young and Punto traded to Atlanta for Yunel Escobar and maybe a reliever.
However, that front line starter is by far the most important because the Twins starting rotation is loaded with slow throwing number three and number four starters. Blackburn, Slowey,and Perkins are decent enough, but they each have them same major problems:
–They give back way to many leads (most often, in the very next inning they pitch after getting the lead).
–They allow opposing hitters far to many gopher balls.
If I’m Bill Smith, I’m on the phone to the guys just down the road from me at Chase field: The AZ Diamondbacks. It’s no secret here in AZ: The D-Backs have some pretty significant financial problems (they have borrowed from the league more then once in the past couple of years), their attendance is down and they have been playing less then stellar baseball this year.
The Twins would do well to pry Rich Harden from the D-Backs. Maybe even for prospects due to the D-Backs money issues. Harden would bring that front line starter and a leader for Slowey, Blackburn, Perkins, and Baker to piggyback on. It almost sounds to tempting for Bill Smith not to try!!!
I have read a lot of ideas on what players might need a change, but how about how the game is coached. The Twins are built for speed, but they have one player with over 5 steals. We could see avgs rise if the middle infield and a couple of certain outfielders were taught and then told to bunt. Watching these guys attempt to bunt is pathetic (i.e. Gomez, Casilla). Even with the awful bunting technique they were reaching base quite frequently off bunt singles. Fielders don’t play in on these guys anymore because they know they wont lay down a good bunt. Teach them the most simple batting technique then maybe teams will start bringing guys in and they can get a few bloop singles. Nothing bothers me more then watching a “professional” fail at something you are taught to do in little league.
Harris at short and Casilla at 2nd and see how that goes. Punto, Delmon Young, Buscher to fill in just to give the others a day off. Liriano to the bullpen and Gomez starting in center.
This team has to go with a core lineup and stick with it for a while.
For an organization that prides itself on fundamentals, this team is terrible fundamentally.
The weaknesses in Delmon and Go-Go are too glaring to say that at age 25, 26, 28…. that DY will be serviceable as a fielder and Go Go will be able to hit above .250. As I stated last year, we needed to trade either or both of them before the rest of MLB realized their limitations. Too late now, word is out.
I agree that the FO made some rookie mistakes last year. So we’ve got some lemons as a result. Let’s make lemon aid. The good news is we’re only talking about four positions: Left Field, short, second and one starting pitcher. Here is how I would prioritize the changes:
* Bench Delmon until he works with Vavra to get back to his approach last year.
* Insert Harris as the starter at short.
* Work to acquire a shortstop of the future, such as Reid Brignac.
* Give Casilla two months to get back into a groove. If he doesn’t, move on to Tolleson.
* Give Liriano two more starts to demonstrate that he can pitch more than two effective innings in a row. If he doesn’t, move him to the bullpen when you activate Perkins.
JJ
It’s not that easy to just go out and get a front line starter. There are a number of teams that need pitching help, so if someone became avaialbe the Twins would be bidding against teams like the Phillies and White Sox who are also in the market for a starter.
Lets be realistic on what the Twins can do. Guys like Peavy and Oswalt aren’t coming to save the day.
Most of the improvement needs to come from the current players, and the managers use of said current players.
The first step is getting the right mix of guys on the 25 man roster, each with a known roll to play.
Harris as the starting SS. As a result, the infield coach needs to work twice as hard to make sure Harris is positioned correctly on every pitch. Harris fields everything he can get to, but does not have the ability to make up for positioning errors like a healthy, on his game Punto can.
Young is a bench player. Lucky to get one start a week. By using Mauer as a DH more (see next point), it will mean Kubel has to play the OF more. Kubel should start more games in the OF than Delmon does. I don’t even think Delmon deserves this roll, but he is out of options.
Morales on the squad, in place of Buscher. Mauer simply can’t be out of the line up. That means he probably needs to DH 2 or 3 times per week, with Redmond getting 1 start per week, and Morales getting 1-2 starts per week. Buscher simply does not offer the Twins enough pop or versitility.
I won’t address changes that won’t happen, i.e., replacement of the field management, acquiring a high-buck starting pitcher, that kind of stuff.
Right now there has to be a short term view of changes that can be made. Uncertainty about Perkin’s, Crede’s and Cuddyer’s availability and Kubel’s knee means that, in the absence of emergency-type call ups, possible changes are limited.
By default, Harris has to be the shortstop, Casilla has to be the 2nd baseman and Tolbert has to back up those two, and maybe 3b as well.
In the medium term as soon as it becomes clear that Crede and Cuddyer are able to play I would make two “changes”…bench Delmon and tell him he has only one job…find a swing. And I’d bring in Carew or Molitor to help him. Install Gomez as the CF with Span and Cuddyer flanking him. Send Buscher down to Rochester and bring Morales up to PH, DH and play catcher as needed. If you want to give him a glove and play some at first, fine, but I’m not hung up on him just being available as a bat and backup C.
If the 3 outfielders need a spell I would put Kubel in the outfield.
Send Tolbert down when Punto comes back and install him as the super sub and rest-giver. He can play virtually everywhere but catcher so use him where he does best.
Perkins’, Lirano’s and Swarzak’s performances in the next two weeks will determine who goes where. Any of them can move to the bullpen and, IMO, you ride the best two out of those three for the starting rotation. Baker has to get fixed or it really doesn’t matter.
As for Casilla, his fate rests on whether you get to July 1 and believe you can win the division. In essence he has the month of June to prove he is an answer. If he still blows then you have to decide if you are in the race and you bolster second or short accordingly. In it? Find a stop gap player from a non-contending team. Not in it? Start making trades that get you up and comers in the middle infield (Briniac is intriguing but I’m gunshy about doing anything with Tampa)
For the long term the personell dept. needs to address three areas: Short, second and power arms. The middle infield may have to come via trade. The power arms can be found in a week or so by drafting college power arms. Screw the “pitch to contact” idea for one draft, acquire as many flamethrowers as you can and sort em out as to whether they are starters or relievers as you go along. You may surprise yourself and find another Garza, Price, etc. by doing that.
As for Delmon, you have to use a roster spot for him or lose him…but no law says you have to play him. Get a work plan for him going and make him follow it. If he won’t/can’t do it then cut your losses. It’s clear Vavra hasn’t been able to get to him, bring in someone like Carew for two weeks and see what happens. The way he’s going now isn’t working so what do you have to lose. He’s still not worth jettisoning…sometimes you have to try different keys to get in the door before you use the battering ram and knock it down. Get creative.
Speaking of creative…would it crush Anderson’s ego if Baker and Liriano spent a couple of hours with Blyleven? He’s already around. Despite the buffoonery he knows a lot of stuff about pitching and seems to be screaming to share it. So what if he tweaks a mechanic? So what if he changes their mental approach or pitching plan? What is going on ain’t working.
I’m sure I can think of more but that’s about it for now.
E7, Gomez hit OVER .250 his first full season in the majors last year at age 22. Yet his weakness are so glaring he will never hit over .250?
Wow, just wow…that is all I can say.
