Hearing about how it could be worse
Posted on June 16th, 2009 – 9:04 AMBy Howard
No electricity, no running water, XM radio on the deck. That’s how I spent a chunk of the weekend, listening to the Twins ans Cubs with the Chicago announcers providing the detail. By the end of the weekend, I was almost feeling sorry for Ron Santo, their radio version of Gladden and Blyleven, who was reduced to muttering and half-finished sentences in describing his team. Don’t get the 69-year-old Santo, one of my childhood favorites, started on Koske Fukudome, who he needs to refer to by his first name in order to keep from an unsavory butchering of his last name. How many times did he say “unbelievable” during Fukudome’s at-bats — and not in a Mauer-gets-three-hits-again way?
The Cubs announcers were generally in awe of Joe Mauer, the Twins fans who invaded Wrigley and Kevin Slowey (at least for the first five innings of his start on Friday). It was really hard to tell what was happening based on the crowd noise, and if any of you took the trip to Chicago, it would be good to read about your trip.
But here’s the deal: The Cubs are what pessimistic Twins fans think their team to be. Milton Bradley (.227/,335/.383) is what Michael Cuddyer’s detractors think Michael Cuddyer is, even though Cuddyer is at .262/.343/.472 and isn’t being entrusted with the third spot in the batting order. In addition, Bradley just signed a two-year, $20 million deal that includes an option for 2011 if the oft-injured Bradley plays 75 games this season. Some folks here would really get worked up at that signing, not to mention having a guy who makes that much money lose balls in the sun and throw a ball into the stands after the second out of an inning.
The aforementioned Fukudome is their Delmon. Since joining the Cubs last season after a successful career in Japan, Koske has turned in .260/.368/.392 numbers while looking helpless against left-handers and not providing anything special in the field. Delmon in that time is .283/.325/.381. However, Fukudome was signed for four years and $48 million plus 8 first-class round-trip air tickets between Japan and Chicago for family each year, personal trainer, masseuse, interpreter, visa expenses, $25,000 annually in moving expenses, and a car during spring training and regular season. (And there’s a no-trade clause.) That investment kind of sounds like your year-end 401K, huh?
Delmon gets $1.15 million this season, without the masseuse.
The Cubs have an injured star third baseman, Aramis Ramirez, whose absence was blamed more than once over the weekend for all of the problems in the Cubs’ batting order. If there’s a blog in Chicago called “Fire Perry & Piniella,” one can assume its owners held a party Sunday after the Cubs fired Gerald Perry, their hitting coach. The Cubs were second in the NL in batting and on-base percentage and led the league in slugging percentage in 2008. So, obviously, Perry got dropped on his head and became stupid in the off season.
The Cubs have a first baseman (Derrek Lee) with a five-year, $65 million contract and stats that resemble Cuddyer’s (.278/.360/.444), a second baseman (Aaron Miles) who is putting up worse numbers than Nick Punto and the perpetually disappointing Alfonso Soriano (.229/.296/.454) batting leadoff and playing left field.The Cubs have been lucky to get good starting pitching because their bullpen — sound familiar — has been dicey. Maybe the Twins were fortunate not to have faced Carlos Zambrano and Ryan Dempster over the weekend, but Ted Lilly has been their best pitching this season and Rich Harden, despite subpar numbers, is just nasty.
It made for a weekend of hissing and moaning on the radio. Somehow, incredibly, the Cubs are only three games out of first place in the NL Central — probably because it is the NL Central. Three games out of first? That sounds familiar.
147 Responses to "Hearing about how it could be worse"
any word on whose goin on dl or sent down today?
If neither Cuddyer nor Span go on the DL it will probably be Morales.
you sure it wont be busch or tolbert? neither can hit and might need more atbats at rochester…
Should be Buscher, or a DL stint for Crain. After viewing T98’s analysis, I’m convinced he’s not right.
I don’t care if it’s the DL, bereavement list, waiver wire, or a one-way ticket to anywhere on Amtrak, Crain has to go, somehow, some way.
“I was almost feeling sorry for Ron Santo…who was reduced to muttering and half-finished sentences in describing his team.” Actually, that is how Santo talks all the time. He is the most painful broadcaster ever. You weren’t hearing despair, you were hearing a whiner who doubles as a horrible color commentator.
It definitely won’t be Tolbert as he is the only reserve Middle Infielder on the Roster.
I wouldn’t mind Buscher gone, but other than Cuddyer he is the only reserve 1B.
I know Gardy would like to have the 3rd Catcher to give him flexibility for when he DH’s Mauer, but I would be shocked if it happens.
While Crain should be DFA’d, that is a separate issue as he would have to be replaced by another BP arm.
I happened to attend Saturday’s game this weekend. I have watched about five games at Wrigley and needless to say this was the first time that the opposing teams fans outnumbered and outcheered Cubs fans.
Place Crain on the 600-day DL. Pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaassse.
Crain should be released…bring back Swarzak, put Liriano in the pen. DL for Cuddy and leave Morales here to DH and put Young, Gomez, and Kubel in the OF
tjb7345 has it right.
Crain and Busher have to ok soon. Bring up a couple young guys who are hungry.
Thanks, Howard. It’s nice to have some context. I feel like at the end of most seasons, I wonder how I ever got so pessimistic in June, when the team ended up making a run for the playoffs. The Twins rather quietly went 5-5 on this trip and there was a distinct sense that it could have, and should have, been better. I think that bodes well for the months ahead.
Any word on Morillo? Lefty, tossing heat, with control issues…Is this more or less attractive then a righty who throws over the plate
Sitting at Friday’s game at Wrigley was one of the great lifetime experiences. Fellow Twins fans everywhere. It seemed like 40% of the crowd was cheering for Minnesota. Nothing like watching a game on a sunny day from within the hallowed, ivied grounds of Wrigley. Ernie would’ve certainly said “let’s play two” on Friday.
You can call it Minnesota pessimism but we complain that we had a ss making $4 mill a year and consistently batting below the Mendoza line, or a right fielder that couldn’t hit his way out of a shoe box, or a left fielder that has issues with running routes to fly balls, but we’re so much better off than the hapless Cubs. Those fans must have backbones of steel to handle all the crap and contracts that Howard just enumerated - I would be screaming my head off if we had half of that junk going on; and we thought Seattle was a mess! Chins up, Twins fans, we’re going to be just fine and will be right there at the end of the season to claim another division title - now that’s Minnesota OPTIMISM!
What’s amazing about Gardenhire’s comment about Crain throwing over the plate is that he walks more than 6 batters/9 innings. So he walks a bunch of guys and then finally decides to groove it. I have to think the writing is on the wall for him. Swarzak made such a huge impression - if Crain can’t turn it around fast, I don’t see how it’s possible they don’t designate him for assignment or trade him for a throw-away class A prospect.
Oh, and one more thing, send Butcher to Rochester and DFA Crain - unless he can go to Rochester too - maybe they need his kind of help in Beloit.
That’s the way Ron Santo always sounds. All he does at this point is produce grunting sounds to express his displeasure. He cannot form words, let alone sentences. It almost sounds as though someone in the booth was having an attack/episode.
Howard,
I was at Friday and Saturday’s games. Friday we sat upper deck section 425, above homeplate on the first base side of the broadcasters. It was a great perch to watch the game and the strike zone and the misadventures of Milton. Saturday we sat in the bleachers. The Bleachers was much more of an event. Bachelor/Bachelorette parties…. including my own. I’d recommend going to 2 games and experiencing both. Friday it was probably 60-40 Cubs fans. Saturday had to be close to 50-50.
Thanks, Howard. As a small-market team, Twins fans have to be especially cautious about ranting for signing expensive FAs or giving big-money, long-term contracts to pitchers and players with injury histories.
Right now, the NY Post and the other NYC papers are going ballistic about the possibility that Santana may have some chronic long-term physical/health issues. Not to mention Delgado’s injuries and the fact that Citi Field doesn’t help Wright’s power numbers.
I remember so many bloggers figuratively screaming for the Twins to pay Crede whatever (at least $7.5M) to play this year. Thank goodness the Twins FO didn’t take to heart these rants by bloggers.
So, keep in mind what are parents and grandparents oft said to us:
Better to be safe than sorry. A fool and his money soon are parted. A penny saved is a penny earned. Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.
blakep,
Morillo is 3-2 with a 3.42 ERA, 1.27 WHIP, 33 SO and 16 BB.
Looks like I wasn’t the only Shawn at Wrigley on Friday and Saturday 
Sat in section 229 and 228 respectively. Someone close to my section on Friday started a “Let’s Go Mauer” chant right before he hit his HR. After that we kept the chant going for each Mauer AB.
Saturday was my bachelor party as well (funny how that works). We had 1 Cubs fan in the group and he was miserable the whole game.
I heard from multiple Cubs and Twins fans that they couldn’t believe how many Twins fans were at the games. A buddy of mine sent me a text telling me that supposedly the Cubs broadcast mentioned on Saturday that it was the most visiting fans they had seen at Wrigley all year.
4 more Twins games for me this year (3 in in Oakland, 1 more in Chicago) but I don’t think I will see as many other Twins fans there!
Even though I’m glad the Twins didn’t go as high as $7.5 mil in signing Crede, I’m still glad they got him. We’d be in a deeper mess if we were relying on Buscher at 3B.
“Any word on Morillo? Lefty, tossing heat, with control issues…Is this more or less attractive then a righty who throws over the plate”
If he’s started to throw left-handed that’s news to me.
whew, glad Howard’s back.
After the preliminaries, Howard started his analysis of the details by once again praising Michael Cuddyer (in a ‘at least he’s not Milton Bradley’ back-handed sort of way).
To that, I say this: Michael Cuddyer spun a nice magic trick on me by turning me into a fan overnight with his back-to-back four hit efforts on May 21-22, including hitting for the cycle. I actually felt Cuddy deserved All-Star consideration at the time.
Now, I will no longer be fooled by the magician. He’s not worth the money and we’re stuck with him….period. He gets injured by stuff that we can’t even really put a finger on (no pun intended), continues to kill rallies, and generally is a disappointment. That’s really all I can say…check the box scores of those two four-hit efforts and you’ll notice pretty much the entire lineup was taking batting practice those days.
Next Howard touches on D Young and in a back-handed way says ‘at least he’s not Fukudome’. Okay, let me do my own Jim Souhan here: We’ve reached the point in Delmon Young’s career when we know precisely what he is and what he isn’t. What he isn’t is a power hitter, a speed guy, a sure-handed outfielder, a guy who takes walks, and a guy who comes up with big RBI’s. What he is is one-half of the equation in what now is obviously a botched offseason trade by Bill Smith. Luckily, Brendan Harris continues to bring some consolation to that deal.
Curiously no mention of Jesse Crain or Nick Punto in Howard’s post.
It’s so tiring going into this once again, but FS North leaves me no choice: Nick Punto is not an everyday player. He’s not. Think of how awesome Saturday’s game was and all the great story lines that played out…and what do we get postgame…we get Ron Coomer putting a microphone in the face of Nick Punto, telling him how he’s hitting the ball on the screws since his return from the DL. I’m sorry. Who do these people think they are kidding? Honestly. Who? 5 singles, including a bunt, in three games, and suddenly we should be happy we have him? Until you bench him (for real), he will sink this ship. Don’t even bring up the “who else” point…because the answer is “anyone else”.
Crain I won’t dwell on because the Twins aren’t pretending he’s part of the plan. In fact, Gardy all but said “never again” after that outing.
I’m going to make a Howard-like call: We take 5-of-6 this homestand…that’s my story and I’m sticking to it!
The battle cry of the Twins fan - “It could be worse!”
A note on Buscher. Given more ABs, one would expect his important numbers to improve. For instance, he walks at a higher rate (16.1% of PAs) than anyone on the team (that BB on sunday was no abberation). Also, he’s hitting line drives on ~20% of balls he puts into play (that’s up there with a guy named Mauer). Lastly, a BABIP of .246 suggests he has been pretty unlucky so far. A bit of patience is warranted.
blakep, If the Twins sent Morillo to Rochester to learn how to throw left-handed, that would be a great story.
Chicago folks, Thanks for the backstories on Ron Santo. That’s very sad.
So we know what someone will be like later in their career based on how they play at age 23?
How about this line for a 23 year old Twins player back in the day?
Games=135
Avg=.255
HR=9
Hits=98
2B=17
3B=2
SO=72
And how is this guy doing in 2009 at age 33?
Games=59
Avg=.319
HR=16
Hits=69
2B=14
3B=1
SO=41
Now, would anyone have said that Torri Hunter was washed up at age 23 when we all know it took him really until 26 or so to become a good player?
I attended the games on Saturday and Sunday. I knew there would be a lot of Twins fans at the games but I was stunned by the sheer numbers that actually were there. Felt like a Badger fan at a MN/WI football game in the Dome. Thank goodness the MN side prevailed overall this weekend. The Cubs fans were great people. A road trip to remember!
I just don’t feel better about my fandom knowing others may have it worse. That just doesn’t work for me.
As for Cuddy, I think he was effective (great) for 1/3 of the season so far. The other 2/3, not so great. I remain curious about whether or not a guy that is great for 1/3 of the time, and bad the other 2/3 contributes more or less to winning than a guy that is just consistently average the whole year. That is, among two players with identical numbers at the end of the year, who’s numbers lead to more wins, the guy that is pretty much the same all year, or the guy that is hot and cold be ends up with average numbers at the end?
Shaun,
I figured it backfired on Souhan, maybe it will backfire on me and D Young will do an about-face.
But in all honesty, due to the fact that D Young is out of minor league options, I don’t know how much longer he can continue to tie up our roster with below average play…and for the zillionth time, comparisons to guys like Puckett and Hunter are not convincing. You’re talking about the two best centerfielders in franchise history.
Trade Crain and/or Buscher to the Astros for Hawkins and Erstad. Erstad could be a backup lst baseman and outfielder. Hawkins would be better than Crain in the bullpen. Erstad may be washed up but he may just need a fresh start closer to home in North Dakota. He would also be a good and steady influence on the young players.
“Felt like a Badger fan at a MN/WI football game in the Dome.”
tbone, you’re telling me the Twins fans outnumbered the Cubs fans by a 60/40 margin?
My brother-in-law attended Fri. and Sat. and said it was hard to tell, but probably around 15,000 of the 40,000 at the stadium were Twins fans, visually speaking. Impressive, for sure.
Here’s my theory–a vocal minority is always going to overpower the home majority in these situations. To a Cubs fan, it’s just another Friday game…they didn’t come from hundreds of miles away and aren’t inspired to dress up (my bro-in-law would NEVER wear a Twins jersey at the Metrodome but he did last weekend), get drunk, and go crazy at the games. Thus, a 25/75 margin ends up feeling like 50/50.
You can compare Young’s offensive numbers at 23 to those of Hunter and Puckett. But Hunter and Puckett played plus defense in center field, while Young plays minus defense in left.
Gomez compares more closely to those two than Young does.
I was at Saturday’s game at Wrigley; sat in Section 122; about 15 rows up from home plate. It was a magical experience. And, yes… I agree with the other posters; it seemed to be about 50/50 Cubs/Twins fans. It was an awesome experience and I think it is an indication that we Twins fans are craving outdoor baseball. I do have to say that the Cubs fans were very nice.
Jay,
I like your idea if we could get Hawkins for Crain and Buscher I would pull the trigger now. I’ve always liked Darin Erstad and agree that he would probably do better being closer to home.
You’re talking about the two best centerfielders in franchise history.
The point being, that at the same age, they weren’t any better than Delmon, hitting-wise.
I was in the right-center bleachers on Sunday for my first game ever at Wrigley. Too bad they lost, but what an experience. There must have been twice as many Twins fans in our section. Cubs fans were complaining loudly that every cheer they started got drowned out be a MVP chant for Mauer or a simple Let’s go Twins. Comment of the day was when a Twins fan got in late and squeezed right near us another fan shook his hand and said welcome to Minnesota.
I was there this week-end as well. It was great and I too was shocked at the sheer # of Twins fans. I don’t know about 50/50, but there was definately 15,000 or so there on Saturday.
I too am annoyed by those suddenly praising Punto. I’m glad he’s swinging better but he still has absolutely zero extra base or RBI potential. When 2-5 with 2 singles including a bunt is as good as it gets, you still have issues.
As for Crain, he’s simply done. He’s a FA after this year and one way or the other he will not be back. We can hang on to him and see if he turns it around, but he’ll cost us game after game in the mean-time and even if he succeeds in eventually righting the ship, he’ll still be gone. There’s absolutely no point to keeping him around. Frankly, with the starters going longer, they don’t need 7 guys in the BP. Gardy’s line about it being burned out was disingenuous. Morales didn’t pitch Saturday, and faced 1 batter Friday. The same for Henn. Dickey hasn’t pitched in a week. Gardy didn’t turn to Crain out of desperation. He chose to do it. Why? Hopefully to make Bill Smith see he has to get him off the team. If it was for any other reason, he basically forfeited the game for no reason.
Or, more correctly, not that much better than Delmon, hitting-wise.
With Span out of the lineup - how can Gardy possibly put Tolbert at leadoff? Is he trying to prevent Mauer from the nasty distraction of a runner on base? Might as well put Mauer at leadoff - he takes pitches, it will maximize his at-bats and if you put Harris in the 2 hole you will break up the string of lefties a little bit.
Morales= Mijares. I can’t be the first to make that mistake
I was at the Friday afternoon game. It was an absolute blast. I think it was probably one of the more interesting games I have ever been too. I was at the dome when part of the roof fell in and also when the ball got stuck in the roof. This game however, was just special. An away game for the Twins at Wrigley Field, where the Twins fans out numbered the Cubs fans. I sat in the RF bleachers right where Bradley lost the ball and later threw a ball into the stands with only two outs. He also made a very poor diving attempt earlier in the game. The Twins fans all cheered him and the Cubs fans booed him. It was great. I think he was pretty upset, seeing as how when he caught that ball with two outs, he looked up at all of us in a way that said ‘I caught it, what are you going to say now.’ Then he throws it in the stands, it was priceless. Later he threw a ball into the stands when play was actually dead and a Twins fan threw it back on the field after being pressured by everyone in our section. They actually kicked the guy out. He fought hard to get it and was rewarded by getting beer all over himself. Then throws it back as a joke and gets booted. SAD! Understandable, but SAD!
Everywhere we went all weekend, there was a bunch of people wearing Twins gear. It was just a really special weekend and it really shows me the new stadium will be a great place to be and hopefully one day as special as Wrigley.
Yes, but you dind’t know they were the best centerfielders until they had several seasons under their belts. Personally, I don’t think Young will ever turn into that kind of player or even close but I am pretty sure he can produce better than he has so far this season. I would take what he gave us from this point last year. I still think he is more talented than Cuddyer.
Mike, I agree that I don’t get excited about having it better than the bottom of the barrel but really, there aren’t too many teams I would trade our Twins for. Phillies, Red Sox? probably. Rays? maybe Who else? If ownership had paid 60 mil over the cap for the Yankees roster, good as they are I don’t think I would even bother watching.
Key to this season is still the starting pitching. 5 quality starts and we get a couple comfortable wins and have 3 tossups. Hopefully Cisco and Perkins can get us off on the right foot.
In addition, Mauer got the MVP chants all day while he was on the road… and Bradley was reminded about how many outs there were for the rest of that game. It was Fabulous.
With regard To D Young, I think the comparisons to Hunter are a bit off as Delmon has clearly regressed from prior performance (2007). That may be indicative of an inability to adjust to MLB pitchers’ abusing his aggressiveness. What’s truly troublesome is Young’s reportedly obstinate refusal to work with Vavra on such issues.
Howeda, I agree about the pen not being overworked plus can’t we pretty much pitch Dickey as much as we want to. I remember in Jim Bouton’s book Ball Four he said he could throw that knuckler every day and that he would be more effective if he could do so. If Gardy ever thinks his pen is overused just go to Dickey.
Hollywood, I like your idea about leading off with Mauer while Span recovers. Punto situation still makes me mad about Casilla. If he performs any where near like last year he could sub in the leadoff role and put Punto back to utility status.
hollywood,
Gardy had been batting Harris leadoff in Span’s absence, but had to drop Harris to 5th when Crede was scratched to balance out the lineup.
A thought on Crain, didn’t Gardy keep running out a certain right handed reliever in critical situations last year, until it was obvious to everyone that he was finished? Might see a Rinconesque move coming soon. Does Crain have any options left?
Can Dickey pitch everyday, like everybody claims? He’s not a traditional knuckler–he throws 10-15 mph harder.
Twins won’t demote anybody today. Span or Cuddyer to DL.
The Tigers just released Jason Tyner. Here’s our chance to get him back…
I would bat Gomez No. 1 until Span returns.
I’ve often wondered about why Gardy uses Dickey so little. Especially Sunday. Doesn’t the prospect of extra innings suggest that the long reliever be used?
I’d have used Nathan, unless he was tired. That was the 9th inning, and their best hitters were up. The goal is to get your best players on the field as much as possible, w/o tiring them out. Saving him for a save situation that may never materialize just isn’t good strategy.
In the absence of Span, I feel as though Harris is the best bet at leadoff. My sole justification: OBP. Not only because one obviously wants guys on base for M&M but also because it is indicative of working the count. This may sound crazy, but even Punto may be OK (sans Span) in that spot as he draws some BBs and works the count.
Shaun,
there was a bachelor party from NYC near us. They were mostly Met fans but wanted Wrigley anyway. They had 3 Sean’s including the groom. So, Shawn/au/eans were well represented. It was the second most opposing fans i have ever seen. Except Yankees at Camden Yards.
I’m sure Span will be back soon, but what if he’s not? Would Harris be the leadoff hitter until the end of the season? I think you’d have to go back to Gomez.
Shawn,
I rememer on the day Cubs tickets went on sale, when I was in the Cubs “Virtual Waiting Room” trying to get Twins tickets, one of the regulars here mentioned he got tickets and would be there for a bachelor’s party.
wasn’t me Walter, I remember you telling me they were sold out.
It was the best time I’ve ever had at a baseball game saturday.
All you DYoung haters out there: He is tearing it up for me on MLB09…I have him batting 3rd right now and is leading the team in HR, BA, and RBI. So there!!!
Isn’t Binghamton near Choconut Center?
“blakep, If the Twins sent Morillo to Rochester to learn how to throw left-handed, that would be a great story.”
That would be a great story! Scratching my head, cause I coulda swore…
3-2 with 16BB and a 3.42 in AAA Rochester…those sound, unfortunately, like Crain like numbers…
Howard, I think we all sort are rather disgusted by the salaries. And yeah, the Cubs have made some pretty poor investments/deals. But what is most galling about the Twins is that the stinginess of Twins management amplifies player expenditures and any mistake or miscalculation is that much harder to swallow. You aren’t realistically comparing lemons to lemons.
WJ: why not Harris at the leadoff all season? I don’t see what Gomez brings to the table other than (often misguided) speed.
There is a “sean” on here. I think it may have been he who had the bachelor party.
Shaun -
At that point, Torii Hunter was an amazing defensive center fielder. The point with Young is that, unless he becomes strictly a DH, his offense is going to have to develop to Manny-like productivity to justify playing him in the field. If Torii Hunter hadn’t been an all-world defensive center-fielder, there’s no WAY he would have gotten as many chances with the team as he did.
yeah, its pretty close
forgot to mention that I do enjoy seeing how the latest suffering is impacting the Cubs fans. their team is certainly underachieving.
I just took a glance at Morillo’s minor league track record. His K/BB is up to ~2 which is double last year at AAA. Note, that was his first extensive action at AAA so perhaps improvement is occuring.
We went to the Saturday game at Wrigley and listened to the Sunday game on the drive back to MN on AM 720. Their commentators were awful! It’s like Cubs have their own John Madden on the radio. Some old dude was stumbling over words, saying half sentences followed by silence, making “captain obvious” statements, and he was terrible at color commentary. We are blessed with Gordo and Dazzle!
Harris has only drawn 3 more walks than Gomez in 44 more ABs. The higher OBP is because of higher BA (which is also good). I like Gomez leading off because he can score from first on a Mauer or Morneau double and is more of a distraction on first (just so that he doesn’t distract Mauer).
Has everyone seen t98’s Crain analysis. If you do, case closed. Something must be wrong with that shoulder.
I don’t know about Gomez in lead off, though…they tried that experiment last year, and it didn’t really work out
All of my Twins fan friends were talking about this game the second the schedule was released. Cubs fans were in line for the Cards, Crew, and Sox. Point: Cubs fans didn’t care about this series.
It’s like getting to dance with the pretty girl and busting a move or two. She’s impressed, but when the song ends she doesn’t remember your name.
It’s kind of lame to be in awe of Twins Nation showing up at Wrigley in numbers. Any baseball fan would, it’s a mecca. Cubs fans just picked this weekend to go to Lake Geneva.
I was at Friday’s game. Games at Wrigley are always fun. I would say at least 40% of the fans were Twins fans. I even heard a Cubs fan in the concourse say outloud “is there anyone left in Minnesota?”. I was also near the Let’s go Mauer cheer, and it was loud, I think even louder than at the dome.Great game, great stadium, great city.
“his offense is going to have to develop to Manny-like productivity to justify playing him in the field”
Exaggeration!
There have been many below-average defensive outfielders who have played many years in MLB hitting far worse Manny Ramirez.
I was focusing only on offense when I was talking about Mr. Hunter as you can see.
As far as Vavra-do you even think Mauer works with him?
I think even though he may get on base less than Harris or another leadoff candidate, once he’s on base he does more for the team than the other guys. Gomez has scored more runs than Harris this season. That could be because of the “advantage” of batting 9th, I don’t know. The Twins actually had a better winning percentage in 2008 with Gomez leading off than Span, even though everyone, including myself, would agree that Span is a better leadoff hitter.
I also attended the game Saturday and despite it being a bit chilly and rainy at the beginning, I had an absolute blast.
Nathan sure made it interesting in the 9th and that was probably the loudest I heard the Cubs fans all day. Luckily he quieted them down and I was able to walk out of there with a smile on my face.
I also had great experiences with the Cubs fans around me. The guy next to me didn’t stop asking questions about the Twins and was extremely nice. This was my first game at Wrigley so I guess the sample size is small, but I didn’t see any fights between fans which was a welcome change from some of the games at the Metrodome (specifically the Brewers/Twins series and any college night)
sy - fair enough, possible hyperbole on my part. Young has to hit for power, and good power, to be at all justifiable in left field. Two straight years with a SLG of about .400 means it ain’t happening. I’ve said all I need to on him, though.
Yeah that’s a good point about Harris, he really isn’t a very patient hitter. But if we are to consider Gomez, I must introduce the Punto leadoff heresy. Speed wise, he brings the same traits to the table as Gomez. Additionally, he is a very patient hitter (probably, in part due to the fact he can’t do much when he swings). Nonetheless, he swings at fewer pitches out of the strike zone than Mauer (and everyone except Buscher) and sees the 3rd highest pitches per at bat (after Mauer and Buscher). These traits are undeniably attractive for a leadoff hitter. All that being said, I still think that Punto is serious hole in the lineup and the Twins are still lacking at 2B. But in the current pinch created by Span’s dizziness, Punto may be viable at the leadoff.
At the risk of being labeled some kind of “homer” or “organization lackey”, I’ll just say 1) Punto hit .500 this weekend coming off the DL and with the shortage of players, that was pretty important; and 2) I think Young’s defense in LF is improving. He’s not “above average” yet, but he made a couple of pretty decent running catches and didn’t seem to get the late jump that he often struggles with. Maybe… just maybe… there’s something to this “Dome lights” problem people talk about.
In the end, I continue to maintain that this team has enough offense right now to not only contend, but win the Division rather handily. What will determine success from failure will be the starting pitching… and I was very happy with that aspect over the weekend in Chicago. (Of course, one of those guys is now in the Rochester rotation.)
With the Pirates and Astros in town this week, it’s time to put some real pressure on Detroit.
Here is my preferred batting order. I’m optimistic that Cuddyer will play, but believe that Crede is definitely out.
1. Harris SS
2. Mauer C
3. Cuddyer RF
4. Morneau 1B
5. Morales DH
6. Tolbert 3B
7. Young LF
8. Gomez CF
9. Punto 2B
Keep Young down in the batting order to take the pressure off him. Especially as he’s struggled batting in the Dome.
Semi-humorous possibility: Slowey, DH.
OB,
I would agree on Punto. Maybe the only place in the lineup he could add value. Harris on the other hand, is a valuable hitter in a number of roles, so you definately want him in the order, if not first.
It could also be that Harris has had more ABs with runners in scoring position than Gomez. In that case, he would want to be more aggressive, leading to fewer walks.
re: howeda’s 11:13 entry, I thought the same thing when he trotted Crain out there for the 9th. Not that we’ll ever know what Gardenhire’s thinking really was, but it was obvious that it was Crain’s game to lose at that point. I figured he was giving him this one last chance (but alas, there will probably be even MORE last chances) to prove himself. I didn’t expect him to succeed, and I would be surprised if Gardenhire expected him to succeed either.
As to the idea of packaging him to the Astros, I sincerely doubt the Twins could get anyone performing well at the major league level for Jesse Crain. Perhaps they could get an A-ball prospect…and I would take that at this point if the offer was made and I was the GM. Even Ayala is now performing better than Crain. That’s just sad.
Playing hooky on Thursday and going to the game. Here’s hoping for a win!
Re: Gomez’s runs scored. He is used a lot in pinch-running situations. That might explain some of it. Harris has often hit about 7th. Even when he gets on base, he has been stranded on base many times.
As for Jason Tyner, our need is not the greatest for a left-handed outfielder. We’ve got Kubel. Tyner has no at-bats this year.
WJ: I agree that Harris has value in a number of roles, but I also feel that way about Gomez. They both have some pop (ISO ~.1) so I like them hitting after the meat of the lineup. I think either/or at 7 and 8 is ideal when the lineup is back at full strength (with Kubel, Cuddy, Crede at 4, 5, and 6).
Didn’t read all the comments, and I agree that Delmon needs to play better.
But to defend him slightly, he is playing out of his natural position in the field, which is RF.
Things like that have been known to throw guys off their game for extended periods of time or careers.
ie.: Punto excels as a hitter when he’s a fill-in or utility guy, but you know how it goes when he is the starter.
I wasn’t lucky enough to attend any of these games at Wrigley, but growing up with Cubs fans I know they’re very loyal to their team and suffering with them is a badge of honor for these die-hards. Now that the Twins are done playing them, I hope the Cubbies can turn things around and make another playoff run.
As for our Twins, I hope this interleague homestand will get them above the .500 record for good this season.
This is like the 5th time I’ve tried to post this so I hope eventually it goes through…
Sorry, blakep, I didn’t notice the gremlins were back and that 12:47 posting under your name was actually mine.
Mauer Power:
Good points regarding Harris’s run total. That’s why stats never can tell the whole story.
In that case, JC, this is for you:
“At the risk of being labeled some kind of “homer” or “organization lackey”…”
You risked it, and although I love and respect your work, here goes:
I think in this instance you’re a homer for being inspired by Punto’s 5-for-10 effort in the Cubs series. Sorry, that’s how I see it. Am I happy he didn’t go 1-for-10 as his average has shown up to that point? Sure. But it did nothing to change my opinion that the guy does not belong in the starting lineup…and what’s truly frustrating is the Twins seem h-bent on convincing everyone that breathes that he has to be…to the point where Coomer seeks out LNP after a 1-for-3 effort on Saturday to praise him for “hitting balls on the button”.
Ronnie, he had three singles in two games…he’s been a season long embarrassment to our lineup, you really think that game called for a Punto feature when Swarzack shutout the Cubs in 7 innings????
So yeah, anyone who took that bait is has homer-like tendencies.
And let me be clear on what happens next…I don’t care if Punto hits .250, he doesn’t have extra base power. There’s no one else in baseball like him…he’s not an everyday player, period. That the Twins are so h-bent on convincing us otherwise could seriously spell the end for Gardenhire, as much as I’d hate to see that happen.
I just took a glance at Morillo’s minor league track record. His K/BB is up to ~2 which is double last year at AAA.
True, and another thing that is worth mentioning, is that his K/9 is 12.7, which is second only to Slama in the whole organization (his is 13.2) but his WHIP is far more superior than Slama’s (1.286 vs. 1.382) and he is playing a level higher. Definitely a September call up, maybe earlier
Jason:
Clearly, Punto is a liablity, but what can be done? What chips do the Twins have to acquire a new 2B? And also, is it more important to upgrade the bullpen or 2B. I argue the bullpen, and that should be the primary focus for a trade. Probably just have to bite the bullet with Punto at 2B in the 9 hole.
My son and I were at the game on Friday. Same comments as the rest - unbelievable to see so many Twins fans. On the drive home on Saturday we listened to Ron Santo give his weak play-by-play. At one point he stated that the three players in the heart of the Twins order…Mauer and Morneau… That was it. He said three and named two. I guess counting to three is more of a universal problem in Chicago.
What can be done with Punto is to make him the utility bench player that he is and stop this experiment to make him a starter. I don’t believe we should be looking to replace someone at 2B (we have Casilla or Tolbert) but we do need to get some bullpen help and I think they should be working very hard to get Hawkins up here. I predicted earlier that Crain was having a Rinconian type year and I believe Gardy sent him out there on Sunday so that he could put the last nails in his own coffin.
Sunday after the Cubs fired Gerald Perry, their hitting coach. The Cubs were second in the NL in batting and on-base percentage and led the league in slugging percentage in 2008. So, obviously, Perry got dropped on his head and became stupid in the off season.
No. He was the proverbial sacrificial lamb to shake the waters. Competitive teams do not like trailing in their division (for comparison’s shake the Cubs are a game behind the leader in the loss column, while the Twins are 4) that late in the season, so they make changes to light fire under managers and players. I suspect that this was a GM-decision and not a Lou Piniella one…
Some front offices and top execs demand excellence from their manager and coaches… others seem to not care about mediocrity.
PADRE:
Good story. Reminds me of the WGN broadcast of that game. Worst rendition of Take Me Out To The Ballgame I’ve heard since Harry Carey passed on. But at least the guy said “One, two, THREE strikes you’re out, at the ol’ ball…………….sorry, got carried away,I guess everyone here knows the lyrics by now.
I just went to check the numbers because Howard suggested that this Miles character is putting up worse numbers than Punto…
Indeed, Miles is hitting .200 with 6 doubles and an OBP of .240. That’s ugly. But last year he hit .317 and the year before that he hit .290.
I know the theme of Howard’s post today was not to fret on the bad because the Cubs (apparently) have it worse, but I don’t think you can make that argument when you have a fan base like the Cubs and ownership willing to fork out the money for players and managers. Sure, the Cubs are a disappointment here in 2009 but what else is new?
I, for one, would hope for more than to have it better than a franchise that hasn’t won a World Championship since 1908 and hasn’t won an NL pennant since 1945.
On that note, Punto belongs on the bench…plain and simple. And yes it does matter and yes it will cost us games in the end.
PADRE:
Good story. Reminds me of the WGN broadcast of one of the games last weekend. Worst rendition of Take Me Out To The Ballgame I’ve heard since Harry Carey passed on. But at least the guy said “One, two, THREE strikes you’re out, at the ol’ ball…………….sorry, got carried away,I guess everyone here knows the lyrics by now.
oops sorry. got caught up in take me out to the ball game!
As a Cardinals fan, this article could not make me happier.
Crain sent down to Rochester. No shock there.
6 man bullpen. Interesting.
I wonder if this means Dickey will be used more often…I don’t think he’s pitched in over a week.
So, Crain cleared waivers for sure?
Excellent.
I’m shocked!!!!
I didn’t think Crain had any “options” left.
Jason, I think you might have taken a few liberties with what I actually said. I’m not now, have never been, and suspect I never shall be, “inspired” by Nick Punto.
But he DID produce at the plate during a series that saw Span and Cuddyer both fall to injury. I said that was important. I stand by that statement.
I do believe Harris belongs at SS every day, but I don’t see anything in Tolbert (or Casilla, for that matter) that makes me think either of them should be the regular 2B. If those 3 are my choices, I’ll take Punto right now… and especially if he can produce similarly to how he did over the weekend. I wonder how many games back you have to go to find 5 hits out of the 2B position prior to Friday.
Would I welcome a trade for Sanchez? Heck yes. But until that happens, the choice seems to be from among Tolbert and Punto… and I personally don’t think that’s too tough of a choice to make right now.
romer,
He had options left.
Jason,
Punto/Miles. So Punto’s “good” years don’t count and Miles’ do? Until last year’s 99, Miles never had an OPS+ above 76. He’s not exactly Brendan Harris. There are enough fair arguments that we can make to mkeep Punto from returning to shortstop, but at second base he may be the lesser of the three evils until the front office finds a better solution.
“Some front offices and top execs demand excellence from their manager and coaches… others seem to not care about mediocrity.”
joe torre brought the yankees to the playoffs 12 times in 12 seasons but it wasn’t enough. he was fired and the next year (2008) the yankees didn’t make the playoffs (but torre’s new team did).
making changes for the sake of making changes often backfires.
Too bad for Jesse. Can’t pin Sunday’s loss on him. If M&M bring home that run then Nathan comes in to close.
Lets examine the 2B poo poo platter.
(Casilla, Tolbert, and Punto): OBP (.242, .270, .308) and 2B UZR/150 (-19.6, -15.9, 0.0).
In a prior post I pointed out Punto’s superior plate control (higher P/PA and LD%). While none of them are good options, Punto is superior.
Crain gone… now if they could just get rid of Butcher.
yeah mickey but just think of how much fun it would be for the experts around here when they got to completely trash the NEW manager and the people who hired him when the team does worse instead of better!
After all… what’s more important here? Contending for Division championships and regularly making the playoffs, or having more things to blast the people who run the organization for?
Your priorities are clearly out of whack.
Anyone else think that its been a pretty lucky year transaction-wise? Only lost Breslow.
Shaun–
I agree you can’t really pin the blame solely on Crain for Sunday’s loss (and I do believe in Thylos’ theory that he is injured too). Aside from Mauer and Morneau, if you had a player who has had more time at 3B than Tolbert in there in the 9th inning, he might have made one of two plays that Crede or Harris would have made (and MAYBE Buscher). I hate to say it but if Crede is going to be getting knicked up as frequently as he is then Gardy is going to have to be willing to move Harris over to 3B from SS and let Tolbert play there or show more confidence in Buscher to play him there (or get a 3B that he can play there on the bench) because there were atleast 2 plays that Crede would have made (and that means a lot coming from me seeing I don’t really like him) that would have kept the game tied.
OB,
We are 50%. Only Humber and Breslow had to clear waivers. We lost Breslow and held on to Humber.
OB,
Like arguing over which car was better: the Ford Pinto or the AMC Pacer.
Correction: We are 2 for 3. I forgot about Morillo.
OB,
Morillo had to clear.
Some front offices and top execs demand excellence from their manager and coaches… others seem to not care about mediocrity.
Great. Here comes the “Fire Gardenhire or settle for mediocrity” chant.
Slowly and steadily, the Twins drop down to 11 pitchers.
I do pin Sunday on Crain. Sure, the team could’ve scored more runs, but to give up 3 hits to 4 batters is terrible.
This season so far has been mediocre, has it not? Maybe it will end that way, maybe it won’t. I think he made a good point that Perry was probably a good hitting coach, but that the GM or owners thought something had to be done to shake up the team. I’m sure if Perry is a good coach, he’ll have no problem finding another job somewhere.
The cubs’ hitting coach is a great example about how coaching can be over rated in terms of causation. Most of the times, it’s the players and the GM, not the coaches. Most of the time.
Mediocrity at Wrigley? No!!!
The 11 man staff is probably temporary though, don’t you think? I assume if/when Span or Cuddyer goes on the DL, they’ll replace that spot with a pen arm from Rochester. Likewise, if those two guys come back soon and don’t go on the DL, Morales will likely go back down and a RP be recalled.
So if you’re an accountant, and one day your boss calls you in and says, “Hey, John, you know our financials haven’t looked real good lately and the rating agencies and regulators are on our backs, so we’re going to make some changes. We know you aren’t really the one responsible for our losses, but we need to do SOMETHING to shake things up and send the message that things need to change. You’re a good accountant, so you shouldn’t have any trouble getting another gig.”… you’re OK with that?
If the Cubbies ever win the WS, I wonder if their fans will become as obnoxious (now, they are merely annoying) as the Red Sox fans have become after they’ve won a few.
JimC,
You are most likely correct but I wouldn’t say it is definite. More the most part the Twins have been playing with and 11-man pitching staff for a while now. They just made it official.
Span should have been in the DL already. This team has been playing a player short for a week or so now. I like the 14 position player part, but I am not sure that they are the correct 14 (Buscher and Tolbert could/should just go down for Tolleson/Huber)
I want to say it was Soto…. it was the play that Lee when to 3rd on the play, the ball went right past the glove, a play that a more experienced 3b man would have had made or kept in the infield, and would have kept DLee from going first to third and when the play came to 3rd he couldn’t even hold on to the ball. That was the inning changing play that might have forced it to extras, might have not gotten into crain’s head so much. I really do think he is injured and not saying anything, and shame on him, but that play should have been made or atleast altered, and would have been with Crede, Buscher or Harris at third.
JC,
If I’m a shareholder, I’m happy the upper management is trying to do something to right the ship. Is John is your scenario one of the higher ups? If he is just some low to mid-level accountant, it really doesn’t compare to a team axing a coach.
JC: the Cubs had to do something, although I doubt firing a hitting coach will accomplish much. I don’t know about that FO either. If they need bats so bad, they got a guy down in Iowa hitting .409 with 17 jacks. Real classy firing the guy during BP too.
JC,
the hitting coach is to hitting for a MLB team what a CFO is to accounting for a corporation… Firing your CFO when there are problems with your books is a pretty good message, don’t you think?
I’d like to see what Tolleson can do too. He couldn’t do worse than Tolbert and he’s tearing up AAA although it is a small sample size.
LMS,
I don’t think that Brian Butcher makes that play…
WJ, I think you and I have different views on just how much of a “higher up” a team’s hitting coach is.
As a shareholder of any company that’s underperforming, I’m not going to be impressed by the axing of a couple of middle managers. Those aren’t the people responsible for lousy performance and you won’t correct the problem with that kind of smoke and mirrors.
Now… if they had real reason to believe he flat out sucked as a hitting coach or if he was guilty of some sort of workplace offense, it’s a different story, of course.
OB:
I think what firing the hitting coach really does is piss off the manager, who probably hired him in the first place, and then maybe he takes it out on the players, and everyone steps a little livelier. Depends alot on the particular team’s makeup if it works or not.
thrylos, we’ll simply have to disagree that a MLB hitting coach is comparable to a financial company’s CFO. I just don’t see that as being even remotely comparable.
I know Justin Huber doesn’t make that play.
Just read JoeC’s blog entry and apparently they’ll bring up an OF if Span goes on the DL, so they seem set with an 11-man staff for now. Interesting.
WJ: I agree the move may work, albeit temporarily, but I think the Cubs have got deeper issues. Big contracts like they’ve got often are attempts to paper over structural problems in the organization.
OB:
Lou Boudreau doesn’t make that play. He’s dead.
JC,
One thing to consider about the hitting coach/accountant comparison. In business if things are done right everyone can win. In baseball,even if things are done right, only 50% of the people win. Hitting coaches at the ML level are well paid. Owners are rich guys who can afford to be fickle. There are plenty of guys lined up to take the job.
Great night…Twins win and Cards crush Verlander and the Tigers. Should be a fun Twins/Cards series. Hope to see a lot of Twins fans head south to St. Louis…the Card fans are still crying over the 1987 World Series!!
