Fixing the Twins without spending huge money
Posted on November 19th, 2009 – 9:57 AMBy Howard
This is the time of year when people throw out names.
“Why can’t the Twins get Roy Halladay?”
“Well, Toronto will want this, that and the other thing and the Twins aren’t really in position to give up this, that and the other thing.”
“Let’s get Chone Figgins to play third base!”
“You like the idea, I like the idea, I suspect Chone Figgins doesn’t share our enthusiasm, though.”
And so it goes. Some good ideas, some awkward fits, some trade schemes that work only if you’re working both sides and only looking out for one of them.
Even against that backdrop, there are several moves that could be made to make the Twins what they should be going into 2010. There are lots and lots of possibilities, but I’m going to throw out a few and get out, because doing anything else could numb the brain and threaten to douse the hot stove with spittle. However, if you want to play along at this point, here are two good sources to work with:
ESPN’s free-agent tracker lists players alphabetically and includes Type A and B free-agent notations. Click on a player’s name for career stats and his 2009 salary information.
Cot’s Baseball Contracts gives salary information for players on team rosters.
That being said, here are my three preferred and realistic moves in the free-agent market. None of them are especially novel, but they’re the result of sifting and sorting through all of the possible combinations and saying, “Hey, I think this could work.”
Playing second base and batting second … Orlando Hudson Felipe Lopez.
Orlando Hudson is an All-Star and a Gold Glove in 2009 for the Dodgers (his fourth), who signed him on the seriously cheap at $3.4 million and then gave his position to Ronnie Belliard for the postseason. But there’s something deceptive last year’s salary: Hudson had a novel contract that ended up paying him about $8 million in 2009 — more than twice his base. What made the contract especially interesting is that his incentives included $10,000 for every plate appearance from 576 to 632. (He ended up with 631.) Here’s the breakdown on last year’s deal.
Hudson is a Type A free agent and would cost the Twins their first-round draft choice next June. A better move? Felipe Lopez is a Type B free agent, which doesn’t come with the loss of a draft pick, and a younger, cheaper version of Hudson. He made $3.5 last year, a cut from his $4.9 million in 2008, which came after he lost an arbitration case. He’s younger than Hudson and had better defensive numbers, when using revised zone rating as your measure. He also gives the Twins a second baseman and a No. 2 hitter who isn’t named Nick. Some can argue that he struck out 100 times last season, I’ll argue that a .383 on-base percentage (2009) and a career .338 mark looks a lot better than the pretenders who have been filling that spot in the batting order.
Playing third base and batting ninth … Pedro Feliz.
The main name that seems to come up (Figgins aside) is Mark DeRosa, who is 34 years old and had made a name by being versatile in the field and providing right-handed power at the plate. Wanna know why DeRosa is a man without a position? He doesn’t play any of them well and is pretty statuesque at third base.
Here’s my deal: With the current Twins lineup, I’m willing to trade on-base percentage for defensive prowess, and that’s why I want Feliz. I’ll take a solid glove and some power at that position, and feeljust fine about seeing him at the bottom of the order. Feliz, 34, made $5 million last season plus some modest performance incentives, and I suspect that he can be had for something close to that figure
Yeah, I’d rather have Figgins, but I’m not wearing drunk glasses.
And pitching for the Twins … Ben Sheets
Can you think of a pitcher with more to prove? He missed the entire 2009 season after major surgery to reconstruct his right elbow and will likely be forced to take a low-base, high-incentive deal. If Sheets can recover his old form, how could the Twins not take seriously a pitcher with Sheets’ statistics? Eight seasons with a 3.72 career ERA, 1.2 WHIP and hardly a weak number — aside from the entire reason that he’ll need to settle contract-wise. He made $12.1 million in 2008 with Milwaukee.
In addition to last season, Sheets also was on and off the mound from 2005-7, averaging only about 135 innings per season during that time. Jarrod Washburn? Jon Garland? Brad Penny? More Carl Pavano? I’d rather take a risk on Sheets.
Players can start talking to teams on Friday. Let’s hope there’s some action this winter to go with the noise.
289 Responses to "Fixing the Twins without spending huge money"
so you’re saying:
span
lopez
mauer
morneau
cuddyer
kubel
young
hardy
feliz
baker
sheets
blackburn
slowey
duensing
not bad, i’m liking it. who is going to be our 4th outfielder this year? pridie is really our only option right now….yikes if someone gets hurt…
Excellent ideas! I think Sheets sounds like the Twins’ kind of project. I remember thinking Feliz in the winter of 07 when we went after Lamb instead.
I’m supportive on economically smart baseball, but the Twins got their stadium and now its time to put the money up to take the team to the next level. The decade of the ’00s has been the organizations finest, but there’s no championship trophies from those years at Target Field. Its time to plug the gaps and have the strongest team to try and make the World Series.
I like the idea of the Twins going after a pitcher coming off of some injury concerns with the possibility of a high reward (Sheets, Bedard, Duchsherer, Harden, etc). Since the Twins didn’t have to give up any pitching for JJ Hardy, the Twins can have Perkins/Liriano/Manship fill in if one of those pitchers gets hurt for a while.
“Hudson is a Type A free agent and would cost the Twins their first-round draft choice next June” - not necessarily. If the Dodgers didn’t play Hudson in the postseason, they probably do not want to pay him high end money (which he would end up getting if he was offered arbitration) so they might/probably won’t tender him - thus the team signing him would not give up a draft pick.
While I am ok with signing someone like Feliz, I think Punto gives you similar defense while giving about the same average, just minus the 15 or so HRs. Bill Smith has said that Punto will be in the lineup, so it seems like the Twins will either sign a 2B (Polanco, Hudson, Lopez, Carrol, DeRosa) and have Punto play 3rd or sign a 3B (Crede, Beltre, DeRosa) and have Punto play 2B.
As long as we can have Punto slid into first during batting practice or, in the event of a rain delay, slide on the tarp.
SBG: Those are ideal roles for a fifth infielder.
Matt: The Hudson situation is a tough read. I’m not sure the Dodgers (or anyone) would see Ronnie Belliard, 34, as a full-time replacement for Hudson. Belliard got very hot at the end of the season (.356 BA/.405 OBP/4 HRs in September/October), but I don’t think that’s representative of his future.
I like it. But first Gardy would have to get over his man crush of Punto, which seems to me the only reason Punto starts is because Gardy has a man crush on him. I dont see Gardy getting over it. Punto will be our starting 2b unfortunatly.
Glanzer, I would think that Kubel would be the 4th outfielder next season, and someone would have to slide into the DH position (Harris?).
“As long as we can have Punto slid into first during batting practice”
There are several more important things that Punto can do during batting practice under the category of self-improvement.
Let TC-Bear do the sliding during BP.
This is good via free agency which I know is why you wrote it. However the Twins are high on Valencia, who I like don’t love. So if they are getting a third baseman it is a one year deal unless they do go after Figgens to show Mr. Maurer they are serious. I don’t see that happening. Here is a great idea at second. Go get Brandon Phillips he is affordable 13 mil or so for 2 years. Give the Reds some guys that have a good future but where we are solid at in the lineup. Trade for this guy. He can flat out play.
Pedro Feliz might be okay if he really does provide stellar defense. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a huge Brenda Harris guy - But Harris’ offensive numbers project almost exactly like Feliz’s would if Brendan also had 580 at bats: .265 BA, 30 doubles, 10-12 HR’s.
IMO opinion, Harris is a below average fielder at 2B and SS, but seems to be adequate/average at 3rd. So….I think Feliz would have to be an above average 3rd baseman to fit in the equation because he is older and more expensive than Harris.
Like the Pedro Feliz idea. Like the sheets idea. Don’t know who Lopez is or who he played for. Also I think the Twins should look into Kelvim Escobar, if for no other reason then to make a Twins jersey with the name Escobar on the back! Someone please fill me in on Lopez.
You wrote that you liked the idea of Pedro Felix: “I’m willing to trade on-base percentage for defensive prowess…[and I’ll]feel just fine about seeing him at the bottom of the order.”
I was watching the series against the Yankees and it seemed like the Twinkies had nothing but hitters who should be at the bottom of the order. How many #9 hitters does one team need? If all you want is a good fielder who can’t hit why not keep LNP? Or Buscher? Or Hariss? or Tolbert? or Casillo? or Gomez? or Young? This team is well designed as long at the other team doesn’t score a single run. After that Mauer will have to hit 3 singles in an inning to bring himself home.
I love the ideas, and if the Twins were alone in the market, those players would be perfect. However, for Sheets and I believe for Lopez as well, there will be substantial competition for their services and thus a higher price.
Why don’t the Twins try Duchscherer from the A’s they aren’t bringing him back and last time he was healthy he was nearly a CY young quality pitcher?
I expect the Twins to end up with Erstad as an extra outfielder. He’s got the professional ballplayer reputation that Gardenhire slobbers over.
Zhang:
Great name! Too bad about that falling out with Mao in the ’30s.
If Young and Hardy are batting 7/8 next season, the Twins can afford Feliz in the No. 9 spot.
Dwade:
I see your point, but that’s what I would have thought about Hudson last season and there wasn’t much market. With Target Field opening, I think the Twins have even more of an obligation to compete in the marketplace whatever the circumstance.
Punto will start.
If Gardy had nine Puntos he’d play them all. Which makes me suspect he wants Tolbert to start too.
“Punto will start.
If Gardy had nine Puntos he’d play them all.”
I don’t think Gardy is hard-over in that thinking.
Some short term exceptions:
April 2008:
2B-Harris
SS-Everett
3B-Lamb
August 2009:
2B-Casilla
SS-Cabrera
3B-Crede-Harris
I am in favor of any line-up that does not include Punto……. nice guy…..hustles….. but can’t hit .Denny Hocking part II .
AS much as I’d like to take a gamble on a potential ace, I’d rather have a durable innings eater. That’s why I’d be happier with Pavano.
“I’d rather have a durable innings eater. That’s why I’d be happier with Pavano.”
Now there’s a bunch of words I never thought I’d see strung together.
But I do agree.
Are we all satisfied with our bullpen now? I’m not…I understand we retain Rausch and maybe get Neshek back from injury…but, I think it’s a dicey group in general.
Plus, I wouldn’t mind bringing in two starters to create more competition.
Ronnie, not Rafael…
And do you think Hudson will be offered arb? Like you said, they replaced him, and he’s going to remember last offseason trying to find work after rejecting arb.
Felipe Lopez - 2B - Arizona/Milwaukee - 2009: .310 avg/9 HRs/57 RBI/.383 OBP/.427 slg
After reading both Howard and this site http://joshsopinion.blogspot.com/2009/11/trade-evaluation-carlos-gomez-for-jj.html I agree that Felipe Lopez would be a great fit.
Oops, either I’m seeing things or you fixed it. And my other point was already addressed in the comments
@ Joe
I was also looking at Brandon Phillips. He is a little pricy, 7 million this year, 11 the year after with a 12 million team option with 1 million buyout in 2012. However a righthanded hitting second baseman with some pop would be nice. I just don’t know if the Twins have the prospects the Reds would be interested in.
As for the innings eater vs the potential star, I would think given Duensing, Perkins, Liriano, etc to possibly fill in the end of the rotation given an injury I would love to see them take a shot at Sheets or Harden.
How about Harris as the fourth outfielder next year? I’m sure he is capable of that, has good speed and a really good arm and an okay bat, wonder if he played any outfield in the past?
ben, you weren’t seeing things. thought i’d fixed it before anyone noticed!
I am satisfied with the bullpen. The Twins have Guerrier and Rausch setting up from the right side and Mijares setting up from the left side. Add in Nathan closing, that gives the Twins 4 relievers with an era below 2.50 which is great. Also, I’m not sure if they are planning on keeping Crain or not (he will probably be paid around $3 mil), but he had an era of 2.91 after the all-star break. Add on either Boof or Neshek and I think they should be pretty set. I wouldn’t mind them adding a left-handed specialist (Mahay, Beimel, Ohmann, Eyre, etc.), but they might have Liriano or Perkins in that role with the other being the long-reliever.
Please not Jerrod Washburn…
–Has averaged a strikeout-to-walk ratio of less than 2:1 over the course of his career.
–Can lose control at any time; first of the strike zone, then of his emotions.
–Is a flyball pitcher (bad for next year’s outfield defense) who is going to give up more than his share of bombs.
We need a potential ace!
–Isn’t likely to out-play Minnesota’s current top starters (Scott Baker, Kevin Slowey, possibly Nick Blackburn)
I was a Pedro Feliz backer in 2007 as well, and the Phils actually signed him cheaper than Lamb. Wouldn’t mind seeing him, although I still like having Crede around if he’s dirt cheap- which he should be after 2009. But didn’t Hank Blalock play most of his career at 3b before going to 1st? He’s not even 30 yet and has power to spare.
Steve,
I do like the idea of having Harris try to be the 4th outfielder. I actually wrote on my blog that they should have Tolbert taking a bunch of fly balls every day in spring training. I think he would be a better fit as an extra oufielder because of his speed. The Twins only really need an extra centerfielder because Kubel can play either corner of spot when the Twins need someone to fill in. They just do not have someone who can play CF for Span - that’s why I would lean towards having Tolbert instead of Harris.
4th outfielder is Kubel, but then there’s no backup for Span in CF. Pridie looks like a lock at this point.
LNP is OK at 2B IF they find a strong 3B. His throwing has deteriorated over the past couple years to the point where he is really not a FT option at 3B.
I continue to be amazed at those among us who continue to feel that throwing money at overpriced, aging free agents is the solution to winning. As the Yankees (2000-2008) about that…
I like the post, Howard. It’s exactly (except for Feliz) what I’ve been saying since the Type A and B determinations were made.
“Ask the Yankees…”, that is.
There are holes galore in the bullpen and no reason, at this point, to assume Neshak will perform well. I’m all for hot stove speculation, as long as we start from a given which is more settled than gravity: Punto will play either second or third. So, with that non-negotiable mancrush (and the equally non-negotiable tight-fisted front office), which one of these guys fits best? Probably Lopez. Lots and lots of upsides. Lopez and at least one reliever.
I like all of Howard’s suggestions but I would settle to give Crede a shot at third base again. I really think Punto’s base running gaffe in Game 3 has finally put him in the doghouse. I don’t think Gardy will push management that LNP can be the everday starter at 2B or 3B. Back to the utility role and 4 million a year.
mark, not sure which overpriced, aging free agents you’re referring to, but Lopez turns 30 in May which is youg for a FA and he’s Type B and pretty good. Sheets coming off injury won’t command a huge or lengthy contract. When healthy, he’s a bona fide ace. Other candidates in the Sheets mold are Type B’s Bedard and Harden (although he’s even more prone to injury than Bedard or Sheets). Don’t forget Duchscherer. His ‘08 numbers were great and he has no physical issues. There are reasonable aleternatives out there that could significantly imporve this team.
Cmatt: why would you prefer a durable innings eater to a bona fide ace? I understand there’s some risk involved with Sheets et al., but talent, not a lot of mediocrity, wins games. We’ve got middle to back of the rotation guys capable of eating innings. What we don’t have is a true #1, unless you’re banking on Liriano to perform.
Also, it’s not like Pavano comes with some sort of full year warranty. Just ask the Yankees about that.
Who is Lopez? Who did he play for?
I like Pavano’s stuff but if he can’t learn a slide-step then he should RETIRE! This is the bigs….please play the game right.
Dave - not sure what holes you see in the Twins bullpen. Like I posted earlier, if the Twins keep Crain (which I can see both sides of keeping/not keeping him) and he performs like he did in the second half of the year (which he should be able to do, given that history shows it takes a little while to have confidense after a surgery) the Twins should have one of the better bullpens in baseball.
The Twins had 4 relievers in the top 21 in baseball in era for relievers in 2009 - more than any other team. Add in that Jesse Crain had an era of 2.91 in the second half, and a long reliever (Perkins/Liriano/Keppel) and that leaves room for 1 more reliever who would either be a lefty specialist or someone like an Anthony Slama.
Like it or not, it seems unlikely that the Twins will be adding both a 2B and a 3B. Punto is going to play one of those positions.
For that reason, my preference would be to make a run at Phillips if he can be had for a reasonable group of prospects. Basically, you spend a little more for that one guy and go with what you have (Punto) in the other spot. Lopez would not be a bad choice if you can’t get Phillips, however.
If that does leave you with a few extra dollars, you spend it on pitching. Speaking of pitching, I like the idea of Sheets, but I don’t think that should preclude also bringing back Pavano (or taking a flyer on Washburn if Pavano goes elsewhere).
So, rather than Howard’s proposal, I’d favor Phillips (with Lopez as fall back, if the trade price for Phillips is too high), Sheets and Pavano.
Shazel, see my post at 11:24
The Twins need a 4th outfielder who can play center if something happens to Span. Punto can fill in if need be, but he’s not an everyday CF and neither is Harris/Tolbert.
Shazel, last year Lopez played 2B for Arizona and Milwaukee. Previous year he was with St. Louis and Washington. He came up as a SS with the Reds but playes primarily 2B now. He has a career .738 ops (which has been much higher the last 2 years) and is good, not great, with the glove. I don’t have any defensive stats info handy, but I’m sure someone out there does.
JC,
I’m with you 100%, with the addition of resigning Crede for 100 games.
I’d take a flyer on Sheets for the right price, but I agree with others that they also need to find someone who is more durable. You can’t cound on anything close to 200 innings from Sheets.
I’m a Giants fan and want to say that Feliz can’t hit a lick, and he’s getting worse. Good fielder but can’t hit a curve ball. I would try to get Phillips from Cincy immediately. Gold glover, leader in the Clubhouse, tough out. He’s your guy. Finally, the Twinks need a top of the order pitcher. I would package Kubel along with some rummy (Harris, Redmond?) for a #1 or 2 pitcher. C’mon Smith, make a move with cajones!
Thanks, Matt. Chances of Crain duplicating the second half? My guess is zero to 4%. If we don’t add someone from outside the system (I’m with you; I’d like to see Slama brought up), we’ll be watching Keppel and Liriano log in significant innings. Ugh. Guerrier performed exceptionally well. But if there anything almost as certain as Punto playing 150 games it’s that Gardy will burn him out.
I agree with you on two of your three suggestions. Ben Sheets I am completely in favor of… He put up some superior numbers a couple of seasons ago and I think he is the type of reclimation project this team would love to undertake.
I’m lukewarm on Felipe Lopez, I don’t know why, but part of me just really wants to see OC back and shift to second. Lopez does have more range, and is the more suitable number 2 bat, but for some reason Cabrera just looks good to me there as assanine as it may statistically appear.
As far as Pedro Feliz goes, we could just as well bring Joe Crede back for less money with comparable glovework and a better bat in Crede. I do feel Crede will have a more balanced year this year and will be able to give his team around 135 games.
I would be more than satisfied to see this line up take the field on opening day 2010…
Span
Cabrera
Mauer
Morneau
Cuddyer
Kubel
Crede
Hardy
Young
I think the think bout Sheets is he can be got for the same amount as Pavano. With the same production. Just half as many innings though.
Who can you count on 200 innings from? Not Pavano. 3 years with NY, 145 IP. Only twice in his career has he reached the 200 IP mark. That being said, not many guys are remotely close to locks for 200 IP. The key to one of these relatively higher risk (and therefore cheaper) pitchers is: will they be healthy for the playoffs? That’s where ahving a true #1 pays off. It’s a gamble, I know, but the Pavanos of the workd offer no hope of having a true #1.
I like the idea of Lopez and Sheets. I would also throw out the name of Erik Bedard as a bargain ace.
However, I just can’t get behind Feliz. I think he’d just be the latest man to march in the Twins’ parade of washed-up veteran third baseman, right behind Tony Batista, Jeff Cirillo, Mike Lamb, and Joe Crede.
I’m fine with the Twins going after one or two bargain basement free agents, but maybe they can fill third base with Danny Valencia or Luke Hughes. Since they’re rookies, they’d be even cheaper than Feliz, and I think either one could stop a few ground balls and keep the ninth spot in the order warm.
matt
Thanks for info. Looks good! Hope he’s playing 2nd and Crede/Valencia/Harris/Punto play 3B.
“if he can’t learn a slide-step then he should RETIRE!”
Some pitchers choose LESS hip rotation (slide-step) which gets the ball to the catcher quicker to control base-stealing.
Other pitchers choose more hip rotation, leading to higher pitch quality which helps get hitters out.
Their theory is that the number of base-stealers can be minimized by getting them out when they are still batters.
“maybe they can fill third base with Danny Valencia or Luke Hughes….and I think either one could stop a few ground balls and keep the ninth spot in the order warm”
With Luke Hughes, the emphasis should be on the word “few”.
Are you serious, Paul? you can’t be. Sheets’s numbers dwarf Pavano’s. Also, Sheets actually has 3 years wherein he exceeded 200 IP to Pavano’s 2. In 1428 career innings, Sheets has a 1.20 WHIP, a 2.56 BAA, a 3,42 ERA, and very close to a 4:1 K/BB ratio. Pavano, on the other hand, in 1309 career IP has a 1.36 WHIP, a .279 BAA, a 4.44 ERA, and K/BB ratio of just over 2:1. Plus he’s 3 years older than Sheets. It ain’t close.
Bedard is great but he never seems to see the end of seasons. Kind of like Perkins. In fact if you look at Perkins minor league numbers you might wonder why Perkins doesn’t get alot of K’s like Bedard. What happened to Perk and Liriano? Will either of them make the team this year?
Sane, do you teacn the slide step to your pitchers or do you have them concentrate on simply getting the hitter out? I realize there a big difference in levels, but I’m curious.
Casey Blake
I know the idea of signing figgans might not be a realistic option but if you think about it then it becomes realistic.
I am guessing he will get about 4 yrs @ 12 mill a year. Play him at 3rd base next year and have punto at second, where he is better at anyways. Punto has one year and four million left on the books. Once punto is a free agent sign him to a 2 year 2 million (if he is worth that) Once Puntos salary came off the books it makes the figgans option really realistic.
After next year punto is signed to a bench role and a backup if Valcilea (sp) fails at 3rd, while he is at third just shift figgans over to second base for the remainder of his contract.
We need some speed and a spark, we just don’t have that right now with the lineup. Can you imagine Span followed by Figgans, M&M, Kubel and Hardy. Sounds like a very very solid lineup.
Then go out and sign Ben Sheets to a deal that has a base salary at 2 million plus incentives.
Our bullpen will be fine with Nathan, Neshek, Guireer, Rauch and the guys.
What do you think?
Okay, Pavano’s only 2 1/2 years older than Sheets.
sane
So to you it is acceptable for a MLB SP who gives up a ton of hits to not have a slide step? I could learn a slide step in one day and throw all 3 of my pitches effectively from the slide step. These guys are career athletes far beyond me. I just don’t understand. Twins have Mauer but even he can’t throw people out when Pavano does his full wind.
Chris Sabo???
“do you teacn the slide step to your pitchers or do you have them concentrate on simply getting the hitter out? I realize there a big difference in levels, but I’m curious.”
We are at a level where we can DEMAND the pitcher learn to slide-step.
However, if an individual kid just can’t make it work, we will make exceptions.
Examples:
1) He can’t throw strikes with two different levels of hip rotation.
2) He is clumsy and can’t hold his balance point unless his head is over his back foot.
3) Even with the slide-step, he is too slow to the plate, making the slide-step ultimately ineffective.
As someone posted above, there is very little reason to bring in Pedro Feliz.
Feliz will be 35 next year. His defensive numbers, according to UZR/150, have been declining the past two seasons. It’s quite possible that he has lost a step in the field. And even if he hasn’t, Nick Punto appears to field the position just as well, if not better, than Feliz.
So if punto can field the position as well as Feliz, then the argument would be to bring in Pedro for his bat. As his 81 OPS+ suggests, he is pretty below average with the stick. It seems very unlikey that a move from the National League to the American League is going to help his offensive numbers.
So the question becomes is the roster spot and contract you are going to have to give Feliz worth the small - if any - upgrade from Punto? I just don’t see how it is.
But being reasonable just isn’t as fun as wild speculation! Howard, your article was very cogent and pragmatic. I feel the need to throw in some mild idiocy for balance.
2B: Dan Uggla. The Marlins are allergic to expensive players, and they seem interested in dumping him. Remember the last time the Twins got a 2B from the Marlins? Luis Castillo worked out pretty well.
SP: I still like Bedard, but I figure, as long as the Twins are dealing with the Marlins, why not get Minneapolis-native righty Josh Johnson? It’s a win-win situation.
3B: Who cares? With an improved rotation and a lineup of Span, Uggla, Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Kubel, Hardy, and Young, does it really matter who they plug into the number nine hole?
If Pavano meets any of those three criteria listed by sane for not using a slide step then I would never want him on my rotation if I were a manager. Furthermore, not mastering something simple like a slide step is not pro status.
“I could learn a slide step in one day and throw all 3 of my pitches effectively from the slide step. These guys are career athletes far beyond me. I just don’t understand.”
It is not so much the difference in level between your pitching and Pavano’s pitching.
The key factor is how much Pavano’s pitch quality drops because of the slide step.
Maybe his pitch quality drops astronomically, and your pitch quality drops slightly.
If his pitch quality drops astronomically, he would obviously discard the slide-step. (and as a result, probably frustrate the hell out of his catcher)
Interesting. One of our Legion coaches taught the slide step to the pitchers. My next coach didn’t believe in it so much under the theory that if you get guys out, you don’t have to worry about base runners.
Josh Fields?
I just want to hear one rumor that the twins are going after Dan Uggla. He is a stud with a sweet stroke that plays very good defense (despite what he did in the all star a couple years ago)A very nice #2 hitter, (he will take some RBI’s away from the M&M’s) We would have the Central for sure and a very potent team for postseason, lets not be happy with just getting there anymore.
sane
when it comes to that wouldn’t you say that Pavano isn’t good enough to keep on your rotation then? If he allowed a low number of baserunners like santana or someone really good then i can see looking the other way but pavano seems to have 2+ guys on base every inning! He gets out of it often but it still scares me.
Seems to me that with the emergence of Mauer, Kubel, and Cuddy as legit power hitters that the Twins don’t NEED more power hitters. I’m not saying uggla is a bad idea but definately not needed like we need a #1 SP.
“I just want to hear one rumor that the twins are going after Dan Uggla.”
“Pssssst….the Twins are going after Dan Uggla.
It’s not confirmed, but it MAY be true.
If it’s not true, it’s still a rumor.”
Uhhh, throw in a spanish speaking coach or two while you’re at it, especially with Howard’s lineup.
We don’t need any more players mistaking “lay one down and take the sacrifice” in English for “close your eyes and swing as hard as you can when you hear the mitt go POP” in Spanish.
Second day in a row I agree completely with shazel (12:47 post).
Priority #1 has to be a starting pitcher with big upside ie) Sheets or Harden.
I really like the idea of Lopez playing and batting 2nd. We can afford Punto’s bat in the lineup this way (playing 3B)and our infield defense would be solid.
Shazel: good point. The Twins may need a table setter more than another power hitter.
May I recommend (again, this is wild speculation, not realism) Brian Roberts? He won’t hit home runs, but he will get on base and sock a few doubles.
No idea what his contract status is (and too lazy to look), but I know that he’s been the subject of trade rumors for several years now.
Incidentally, Lopez has played 3B before. Not sure how he did there as it’s been a while. Still, that might be an option worth exporing if the club just isn’t confortable with Punto at 3B.
Sane’s rumor post at 12:49 could get consideration of PoD. Thoughts?
“when it comes to that wouldn’t you say that Pavano isn’t good enough to keep on your rotation then?”
I would say that the bottom line is runs allowed.
If he gives up too many runs because of too many stolen bases allowed, or because of too many baserunners allowed, then he goes away.
If he does NOT give up many runs, he is a keeper.
I’m into results rather than aesthetics.
If he scares me or drives me crazy, I’ll stop watching until the post-game show.
Heetcpa: I don’t think you would have to worry about Pedro Feliz and Felipe Lopez’s linguistic ability. While I have never had a conversation with either, and thus have no idea whetgher they speak English of not, Feliz has been in the majors for 10 years, and Lopez for 9. They both know how to play the game by now, unlike Mr. Casilla or Mr. Gomez.
No importa cual idioma ellos hablan.
Roberts is due $40 million over the next 4 years.
Hmmm… thanks for the data, Boneyard. That makes me less inclined to support a move for Roberts. True, the Twins should have some extra revenue this year from the stadium, but they should not sign any players long term before they hammer out a deal with Mauer.
Like your thoughts. Here is a name to consider for a 4th Outfielder — Corey Patterson. Great speed, can steal bases as pinch runner, excellent defense and covers alot of ground as center fielder or as a late inning defensive replacement for Young.
Howard - Love that you bring up Ben Sheets. I also think he’s a guy who fits the kind of deal the Twins can make (and have made in the past, see Crede).
He has the injury questions, but that’s what makes him enticing in my eyes, because of this he’s a guy the Twins probably could afford when compared to the Halladay’s and Josh Johnson’s that would land their current teams a good haul in top-prospects (of which, the Twins are seriously lacking).
Washburn or Pavano would be nice to have in the rotation as well next year, BUT, they’re not exactly the #1 need for this teams pitching staff that’s already loaded with guys like them. i.e.: #3,4, and 5 type starters. The front end is the biggest issue, and Sheets is the most realistic option I’ve seen out there that could take care of this and give the Twins the best chance to improve now without paying a King’s ransom.
Note to Howard… (because I’m too lazy to send you an email today).
I propose a contest.
All of our resident ‘experts’ (and boy do I use that term loosely!) go on record predicting FOUR players not currently in the Twins organization that WILL be signed or traded to the Twins by Spring Training (or opening day, if you want to allow for Feb-Mar deals). Since FAs become truly “free” at midnight tonight, those FAs that played for the Twins last year (Pavano, Cabrera, et al) would be eligible to be considered.
We arrange our choices in order of “certainty” 1st=4pts, 2nd=3pts, 3rd=2pts 4th=1pt.
“Expert” with the most points is crowned “Official GM of Section 220″ (or whatever section this blog is renamed for next season).
We don’t need any more players mistaking “lay one down and take the sacrifice” in English for “close your eyes and swing as hard as you can when you hear the mitt go POP” in Spanish.”
Was that Punto’s problem?
Do we need an Italian-speaking coach?
How about putting a huge dent in the checkbook. New stadium, new money, spend it. I paid for this stadium, get some players.
Brian Roberts would be a dream come true. One of the best number 2 hitters in the game, hits alot like Joe Mauer without the power. Gets alot of singles and double and plays very good defense!
It’s not likely that any of what you’re suggesting will happen, Howard. But it was a great column nonetheless.
Intriguing idea, JC.
Wow, suddenly Span looks like the most “valuable” player on the team. If he goes down, our outfield is among the worst in the league and there’s no lead-off hitter.
JimCrikket: that is a great idea.
“Do we need an Italian-speaking coach?”
I don’t think so, but maybe someone shorter would help.
The Twins have less than 24 hours to sign their own free agents, will they sign any of them? There are probably better options out there, but which of their own would be the best signing?
Yow, when you put it that way, heetcpa . . .
You have a point, Heet. Outfield depth should be a major concern.
However, I don’t think that an outfield of Kubel, Young, and Cuddyer would qualify as one of the worst in the league, by any stretch.
I had posted Ben Sheets just before this went up today. I really think he’s a great risk for this team to take. I really could care less about more offense this year. They scored the 5th most runs in baseball, added Hardy, and just decided to get rid of Gomez and go with Young. There is plenty of offense on this team. I’d like some starting pitching, a great defensive OF, and a good to great fielding 2b or 3b. Actually, I’d like two starting pitchers, but I’d rather have one very good to great, expensive ones, than two mediocre pitchers.
“However, I don’t think that an outfield of Kubel, Young, and Cuddyer would qualify as one of the worst in the league, by any stretch.”
Agree. The Twins’ pitchers may think it seems that way, of course, but I think I’d still take it over the trio the Yankees trotted out there much of the season.
‘However, I don’t think that an outfield of Kubel, Young, and Cuddyer would qualify as one of the worst in the league, by any stretch.’
It would be by any defensive metric.
Okay, they can’t field (though Cuddyer and Young both have very good arms). But they can sure as hell hit, especially Kubel. I’d take those three over the pitiful outfield combos of the Giants, Padres, Indians, or Royals, for example.
If by “league”, we limit it to the AL, that OF would be “one of” the worst in the AL defensively, most likely. Seems like almost every team in the NL has at least one OF position that’s a “black hole” where they try to hide a guy that should be DHing, though. Any OF with Adam Dunn in it should be considered at or near the bottom of the barrel, no matter who’s manning the other two positions.
Out of Kubel, Young, and Cuddyer, who would play CF. Ugh!
Knowing Gardenhire (not literally; I’ve never met him…), I wouldn’t be surprised if he stuck Nick Punto in center field.
Now that might be one of the worst outfields in baseball!
Really, though, I think Young is the most qualified as a backup CF. He played CF and RF exclusively in Tampa, and by all accounts, he was much better there than he has been in left field. I still don’t understand why the Twins insisted on keeping him in left field, which was apparently the most difficult position to play in the Dome.
I was only refering to the defensive side as far as the outfield comment. I certainly don’t think it’s bad offensively.
Iconoclast, Punto has played CF for the Twins before. Only for a few innings at a time, but he’s done it.
Yeah, I remember that; that’s what prompted my comment.
I have to admit that Punto is a good guy to have on the team. He can play a lot of positions without looking stupid, and he can steal bases when needed. But for the love of God, he is not a starting-caliber player. His place in this world is as a utility player.
JC-
Like your idea. These are predictions, not a wish list.
1) Jarrod Washburn
2) Carl Pavano
3) Mark DeRosa
4) Joe Crede
Pretty unspectacular list, but I’m guessing that’s what kind of players we’ll get. If we re-sign Mauer for $20+ million per year there isn’t going to be a lot of extra money available, so I’m guessing we’ll get a #3 type starter and a re-tread infielder.
Personally I think I would be more entertained by the notion of Delmon playing center for the Wild than center for the Twins.
Is there any possibility of Orlando Cabrera playing 3B?
Agreed, Iconoclast, agreed.
As much as some people keep mentioning Valencia, it seems the organization does not mention him for 2010. Is Cabrera expected to be too expensive? If we could resign him, pick up a stud horse pitcher (fill in the blank), we’d be very good. btw - when does our “young” pitching staff become veterans?
I am ok with offering Sheets a deal, but sign someone else as well. Sheets has gone down every year for the last four years running. You will be lucky to get 135 out of him and he will be out for the playoffs.
Pavano or the like (not Washburn no control)a solid starter who threw almost 200 innings this year. With Baker being basically a borderline ace we need guys that are solid to make a real run. Blackburn is solid he should of had 14-15 wins this year (Thanks Mirajes). Slowey looks good. So that gives you 3, then whoever else you get out of the FA or the leftovers.
“when does our “young” pitching staff become veterans?”
~ I would say when they stop throwing like Tom Seaver one month and Tom Arnold the next.
Yes, Sheets has had injury problems. However, in 8 years, he’s had more than 30 starts 4 times, over 200 IP 3 times and only missed it by 2 IP one other year, and has exceeeded 135 innings 7 out of 8 years. Further, we’re not talking about a guy who is going to command Barry Zito or Johan Santana money and years.
Figgins would be awesome at 3rd batting leadoff or second. I would be suprised that they make a push for him. I think he is a game changer!
Ben Sheets is a low risk pick up and I think they need to be aggressive in going after him. He has the stuff when healthy to be a serious #1 Pitcher. I think the twins need a go to guy when it comes to the playoffs. I would sign him take it slow early in the year and have him come on strong down the stretch. Second base as far as I am concerned this year will be Punto’s. Deal #1 needs to be Joe’s! Lets spend some $…… Go twins
one guy that would be cheap and could fit what we need with some possible up side is andruw jones. he isn’t what he used to be but could spell span in cf/extra of, rh dh, rh pinch hitter. he played for 500k last year. for what he may cost it may be a decent investment. i think he’d be better all around than pridie and wouldn’t cost much more. rather try him instead of a guy like erstad.
trying to think cheap.
Typical Twins article. Ways to save the the Pohlads money when they are the team with the new stadium. So sick of the small market excuses. We’ve been trained to think of this like a business which only benefits the owners. Yet we coughed up the cash for a new stadium. Please no more Twins apologetics. They have major pitching issues. We need at least two starting pitchers, or Pavano back and Washburn. No more Sidney Ponsons or Livan Hernandez please!
Washburn is Ponson or Hernandez.
He’s washed up.
We need to spend money and trade people like Perkins and maybe if someone wants to revive Fransisco’s career him too.
Felipe Lopez? Yuck! He played his way out of Arizona because his attitude sucked so bad. When he didn’t get his extension from AZ he pouted and tanked his way to getting traded. This guy plays hard only when he wants to. Doesn’t seem like a Twins fit and don’t say the Twins would fix that attitude.
I’m not sold on Feliz at all. In the money we would spend on him, we could probably get about equal performance out of the 3rd base spot for a lot less money if we just resigned Crede, that’s even if he can only play half the season out. Crede with a backup platoon of Harris / Punto is fine by me, if it means that the Twins can find $$$ to resign Mauer and get another good 2nd baseman (and yes, Lopez will fit this spot well) and 1 or 2 quality starting pitchers. Sheets, Bedard, Harden, Duchscherer, any one or two of these would be awesome. If the Twins could swing a trade for Josh Johnson, I would be happy with that too, however I would not trade Nathan unless (like Bill Smith would say) the Twins would be blown away with an offer they couldn’t refuse.
I didn’t know Jones was quite that cheap last year. Interesting, ggg.
Trade Perkins, Crain, Swarzack, Harris and a top prospect to the Marlins for Cantu and Josh Johnson. Batting order would be 1.Span 2.Singleton 3.Mauer 4.Morneau 5.Cantu 6.Kuble 7.Cuddyer 8.Young 9.Hardy The rotation would be 1. Johnson 2.Baker 3.Duensing 4.Slowey 5.Blackburn If there is any chance to get Johnson from the Marlins, the Twins need to try to find a package that will work and then sign him to a multi year contract as a solid #1 starter.
“So sick of the small market excuses”
And I’m pretty sick of “Pohlads are cheap” monologues.
Virtually any of the scenarios being proposed here today, in concert with a Mauer extension (which may or may not include tearing up the last year of his current deal), would result in a Twins payroll approximating $95 million. If you assume a willingness to add a couple of guys in July/August (not an unrealistic assumption given what happened this past season), seeing a total Twins payroll approaching $100 million by the end of 2010 would not be surprising.
We may not like HOW the money is being spread around, but I think it has become clear to anyone who’s genuinely paying attention that the Twins ARE increasing their payroll now that the new stadium is reality.
I have an idea! Let’s trade Delmon Young and Brendan Harris for Matt Garza and Jason Bartlett!!!
But first Gardy would have to get over his man crush of Punto…
He did this just fine in 2008 when the FO aquired Mike Lamb, Adam Everett, and Brendan Harris.
It took Everett’s arm falling off, Lamb’s bat never appearing, and Tolbert’s thumb getting ripped up before Punto got into the regular starting lineup.
Why is everyone after Pedro Feliz? OK, let’s be serious. He sucks offensively and has no upside. His defense is good. You also have Danny Valencia waiting in teh wings who certianly will merit a call up or two next year. So why Feliz, especially since he will want more than a year?
I’d rather sign Joe Crede than Feliz. He has better defense, and at his worst is an offensive upgrade. If he rebounds for a decent season, he’s a huge steal. Will he get hurt? Probably, but that’s where you can count on Valencia for a week or two. And Crede would be cheaper.
If his injury history scares you, why not Glauss, who other than last year has been fairly healthy. He will come cheap too.
I don’t get Pedro Feliz… Horrible transaction. The other 2 are fine… Personally though, I don’t think the Twins are done. I’m telling myself that either Brandon Phillips or Dan Uggla will be manning 2nd at Target field next year.
but I think it has become clear to anyone who’s genuinely paying attention that the Twins ARE increasing their payroll now that the new stadium is reality.
That’s typical though. You’ll see them move the goalposts once the initial complaint is met.
The “not enough payroll” is such a stupid generic argument as it is though. At least they’re trying to get a more logical argument which is where that payroll is being spent.
I dont like Sheets–hurt most of the last 4 years. Did not pitch at all in 2009. Will be lucky to get 100IP. The Twins could have signed him any time this year.
The only worse move would be Bedard. He is the lefty version of Kyle Lohse–I live in MD–saw him with the Os. He can be outstanding but more often just lousy.
Keep Pavano. Make a trade for Halladay or Josh Johnson or somebody good. Also keep Crede until Valencia is ready.
I don’t think Jones played even an inning in CF for Texas last year. I don’t think I’d favor going that direction to start the season. If all you need is a 5th OF to rest Span occasionally or enter the game as a defensive replacement late in games, Pridie is probably fine.
If Span were to get injured and faced significant time on the shelf, then you might look outside the organization and, in that scenario, maybe Jones would would be a guy you’d consider if you think he can still cover ground out there.
I just hope Liriano can come back and grab a spot in the rotation…….They all say it takes a couple years to fully recover from his surgery. I cant imagine him as a releiver….he cant come in and walk people , just wont work out of the pen. If he cant start they should consider dumping him. Perkins seems to be on the way out. He doesn’t seem to be a Twins type player with a questionable mentality. And this Vslencia kid??? Who knows.
I like it Leif!
“I dont like Sheets–hurt most of the last 4 years. Did not pitch at all in 2009. Will be lucky to get 100IP. The Twins could have signed him any time this year.”
8 years pitched, 8 years over 100 IP, 7 years over 140 IP.
“Make a trade for Halladay or Josh Johnson or somebody good.”
It’s that easy, eh? Who said Halladay wanted to come here? Do the Twins have anything Toronto wants that the Twins could stomach giving up? Same with Florida (Johnson would actually command more prospects than Hallladay, I think).
Howard, is La Velle still employed by Star Tribune?? his face has been on milk cartons for 3 weeks now…
The Twins need at least one front line starting pitcher and one promising 3 or 4 pitcher to shore up what (I find it hard to believe Twins fans don’t recognize this) is a very weak starting staff. Baker, Slowey, Blackburn, Perkins, and Duensing are all No. 3, 4, or 5 starters. (Duensing and Baker may end up being better).To get Halladay or another top flight starter and a serviceable 3 or 4, they have to trade one of the following four position players:
Morneau
Span
Cuddyer
Kubel
You only get quality if you give quality. I recommend sending Morneau to Toronto if Halladay comes back in exchange or to the National League; put Cuddyer at first.
Of course, I am a White Sox fan.
He went to Vegas with P.A. must have lost a few $$
Or he’s doing that “fear and Loathing in Las Vegas” thing.
Sign Hank Blalock, put him at his old 3B position. Move Cuddyer to first, sign coco crisp, trade Morneau for Holiday, put Crisp in Right, Span in Center… hope Blalock displays his power and hitting from early in his career.. Sign Mauer
2010 lineup
Span
Cabrera (2nd base)
Hardy
Mauer
Cuddyer
Blalock
Kubel
Young
Crisp
Its just stupid to think the twins will make a trade for Halladay. We wouldn’t sign him after next year anyhow. If Toronto were smart they would do what the twins should have done with Johan. Used him for a few months and sold him to NY or Boston. Who ever was in second place before the trade deadline. Terry Ryan made a smart career move by stepping down, knowing he would have to make bad decisions. Johan, Torii. The twins have a great core right now we need a few more pieces.
FV&G,
“is La Velle still employed by Star Tribune?? his face has been on milk cartons for 3 weeks now…”
Write directly to the STRIB Human Resources Department, and tell them how much you miss LaVelle.
Maybe they will reconsider…….
“8 years pitched, 8 years over 100 IP, 7 years over 140 IP.”
2009 - DNP - Reconstructive Elbow Surgery.
That’s the big thing to look at. Sure, he seems to have minor injury concerns like Harden or something. But he just missed ALL of last season because of reconstructive elbow surgery. I’m pretty sure his previous seasons are kind of moot at that point, aren’t they?
If you want to take a chance on Sheets, hoping that he returns to his old form, I can surely hear that argument. But we really don’t have any idea what kind of pitcher he is going to be, or how his elbow is going to hold up. The fact that he threw nearly 675 innings over the course of a 3 year span that was 8 to 6 years ago don’t really give an indication that he’s going to do it in 2010.
I do not understand why anyone would want to sign J. Crede. Has he ever played a complete season? If you can get him for half price, sign him because you will get only a half season from him.
“they would do what the twins should have done with Johan. Used him for a few months and sold him to NY or Boston.”
Johan’s agent made it clear that he would invoke his No-Trade-Clause, if a contract agreement was not reached prior to Opening Day 2008.
The Twins didn’t have the power to unilaterally do what you suggest.
Crikket i was thinking of a 4/5 type outfielder that has some pop in his bat to pinch hit or dh, and fill in a game here and there in the of, certainly not as an everyday outfielder. imo pridie doesn’t offer much with the bat. pridie bats lh so he isn’t a likely dh guy over kubel against a lh pitcher.
We’d have to ask DrDon if his surgery means he’s done. I don’t know. And of course, since no one has ever come back from elbow surgery before, it’s safe to assume Sheets won’t do it and that all previous seasons are moot. Of course, I’m assuming Twins medical personnel will take a qucik peek at all the MRI, surgical notes, treatment notes, and do at least a “turn your head and cough” physical before making a decision. Geez!
Nice….I have been saying these same 3 players for months. Add in Dye and this would be a dream off season.
sane.. so it’s confirmed La Velle is gone?? 
I like that trade for Garza and Bartlett. But what GM would trade them? Oh, I forgot. I’ve watched Roberts for years. Mediocre defensive second baseman, at best, and a streak hitter to end all streak hitters. Please, no pitchers with recent arm injuries.
Your telling me Johan would have said no to a big chance at a Title and a record deal with Boston or NY at mid season? They could have Called his Bluff
“sane.. so it’s confirmed La Velle is gone??”
No, I was just what-iffing.
“They could have Called his Bluff”
And he might not have been bluffing at all.
then we use him for our playoff push and get to first rounders in exchange.
“Is there any possibility of Orlando Cabrera playing 3B”
You people need to turn the page on OC. There are much better options out there.
“Your telling me Johan would have said no to a big chance at a Title and a record deal with Boston or NY at mid season?”
I am saying that Johan would (probably)have waited for post-season Free-agency.
At THAT time, all the teams could lineup with their check-books and not worry about trade compensation.
I agree with that as well. I do think the a large deal would have been dealt mid season too. Either way We made the wrong trade…… Boston had the right package
Boneyard -
I’m sure the Twins would do a very great job of checking over Sheets. All I’m saying is that using his previous durability - especially when that durability was several years ago - as an argument for why he’d be a good signing this year doesn’t work. In the four years leading up to his surgery Sheets missed 30% of his starts.
Like it or not, Sheets is a major injury concern. Any team that signs him is going to take a gamble that he can pitch for an entire season. Hence the reason he’ll most likely get an incentive laden contract.
Correct. I think I misunderstood your earlier post, madtown.
“You people need to turn the page on OC. There are much better options out there.”
I hope that the option that the Twins select plays with the passion with which OC played.
Otherwise, no OC, no Go-Go and no Red-Dog will mean no energy, no heart and no titles.
Dave: “Please, no pitchers with recent arm injuries.”
Well, there goes Neshek and half the potential starting pitchers in the Twins organization already! 
Well, Pete D, the whole discussion was premised on the fact that Sheets is a little more of a gamble than some other pitchers. However, I think the prdeictions that Sheets won’t last x number of innings are unfounded given the lack of medical expertise on the blog. Also, guys who have a better health track record (e.g., Lackey, Halladay), are expensive and will either cost picks or prospects. That takes the Twins out of the running. So, you’re left with the Washburns, Pavanos, and Sheets of the world to choose from. Everyone’s so enamored of Pavano, and yet he’s had injury problems, has been less durable than Sheets, is older, and is far less effective. My point is, if you’re going to take a flier, why do it on someone with a distinct lack of upside as opposed to someone who has been, and very well could be again, a true #1?
BTW: Is there some deep, dark secret that explains why Cabrera is constantly traded?
Yes Boston had the right package for Johan but they never offered it.
I agree with the no RedDog-no energy statement but I just don’t know how we keep him. I like him being with the Twins but I just don’t think he offers enough to hang on to him. OC is worth keeping - for the energy he brings and the offensive production. Good fielding SS’s are a dime a dozen. Ones that can hit are valuable. I say keep him.
coyotetom,
The Twins have a SS. His name is JJ Hardy.
Interesting response, JimCrikket. On a team whose front office is not particularly known for spending tons of cash, we should pump much/most of our discretionary dollars on pitchers whose arms are secured with duct tape?
Here is the list of SP FA’s.
Brandon Backe (32)
Cha Seung Baek (30)
Miguel Batista (39)
Erik Bedard (31) - Type B
Kris Benson (34)
Paul Byrd (39)
Daniel Cabrera (29)
Chris Capuano (31)
Aroldis Chapman (22)
Bartolo Colon (37)
Jose Contreras (38)
Doug Davis (34) - Type B
Lenny DiNardo (30)
Justin Duchscherer (32) - Type B
Adam Eaton (32)
Shawn Estes (37)
Josh Fogg (33)
Jon Garland (30) - Type B
Tom Glavine (44)
Mike Hampton (37)
Rich Harden (28) - Type B
Mark Hendrickson (36)
Livan Hernandez (35)
Rich Hill (30)
Shawn Hill (29)
Jason Jennings (31)
Jason Johnson (36)
Randy Johnson (46) - Type B
John Lackey (31) - Type A
Braden Looper (35) - Type B
Rodrigo Lopez (34)
Noah Lowry (29)
Jason Marquis (31) - Type B
Pedro Martinez (38)
Eric Milton (34)
Brett Myers (29)
Vicente Padilla (32) - Type B
Carl Pavano (34) - Type B
Brad Penny (32)
Odalis Perez (33)
Andy Pettitte (38) - Type B
Joel Pineiro (31) - Type B
Sidney Ponson (33)
Mark Prior (28)
Horacio Ramirez (30)
Jason Schmidt (37)
Ben Sheets (31)
John Smoltz (43)
Brett Tomko (37)
Jarrod Washburn (35)
Todd Wellemeyer (31)
Kip Wells (33)
Randy Wolf (33) - Type A
ES 16
I would guess that OC could play 2nd or 3rd. My point is - he has some pop in his bat that the other current infielders do not.
The biggest surprise (to me) is that Mark Prior is only 28. It seems like he’s been on the DL for that long.
Rich Harden is available right??? The Twins were looking at him before the trading deadline last year right? If they looked then wouldn’t they take another look now????
if they were looking to red for energy last year that would explain their play for most of the year.
yep we’re getting our energy from a 40 year old back up catcher!!
All,
Stop the LaVelle nonsense. Baseball writers take time off during the off-season. You’ll be seeing him before too long.
Wade: I tink they probably are taking a look at Harden.
Er, I “think,” not I “tink.” Heh, heh.
I say we go after Brandon Phillips to play 2B. we have Hardy at SS, then just let Valencia and Hughes compete in spring training for 3B. The only way they are going to learn how to play in the majors is to get innings. One of the two guys is going to pan out. But either way, Phillips, Hardy and Valencia/Hughes is a better infield than Lopez, Hardy and Feliz IMO
OC was bad on O and D last year. I have no idea why people want him back.
As for “heart and clubhouse guy” give me talent any day first…
Gobble-
You must not have seen many games last year. He was always the first one out of the dugout when congratulations were in order; always cheering on the team and always chattering at the opposing pitcher. Who else was doing that? “Age and position have no bearing on energy. It is the interaction with the team and how they react that is important. You obviously have not participated in team sports.
I will take an energized player over a deadass talent - any day. (within reason)
I wouldn’t mind seeing Dan Uggla…….whether it be at 2nd or 3rd…….His defense isn’t great , but his offense is very good.
I agree witht the acquisitions of Felipe Lopez and Pedro Feliz. But in the pitching department, I believe the Twins should obtain Brad Penny or Jon Garland. The most important position is second base, where the Twins have had a glaring weakness since the departure of Luis Castillo. I think Feliz would help and allow Valencia to learn and play a good amount at third.
My feelings wouldn’t be hurt if Uggla was at 2B, either. But he’ll likely cost in excess of $6 million this year (don’t remember exactly what the projections were) and the Marlins aren’t exactly going to let him go for Casilla and Bonser. Howard’s right: Think Lopez.
What was Fredo talking about yesterday? Will we have to start paying to participate on the Twins blogs?
Will I have to save my quarters and stop going to the laundromat?
What if I don’t have a credit card?
What a joke. Why not sped some money for a change. This team HAS money–lots of it. More than $190M this season. They’ll surpass $250M in total gross revenues next season. Spend some damn money for a change. Do we care if the Pohlads line their pockets even more???
Lala72: What is the source of your revenue inofrmation and projections?
If LNP is worth 4 mil/yr I think that Uggla is WELL worth 6mil/yr. Uggla would bring WAY more production. Just sad that Gardy/Smith screwed us to the wall on the Punto contract.
I would have been happy for an even up trade of Lester for Santana but of course don’t know if that was offered either. Many posters here want to give up prospects for a one year rental of an ace. We had the ace for one more year but dealt him for prospects.
Might still be an ok trade if Hardy has a good season.
I also think we should have kept Santana in 08 and take the chance he would wave the no trade. If the Twins were out of it he would have been chomping at the bit to get on a team in contention. I am not saying I am positive but if you don’t believe it was possible then you also believed Favre was retiring cuz he said so. No trade was just contract posturing in my opinion.
Trade Punto and a “prospect” or two for Uggla. Maybe even through in one of the young pitchers who never seem to become veterans. Get creative. Quit stockpiling “prospects” (Valencia) for players who have proven themselves.
coyotetom,
“I will take an energized player over a deadass talent - any day. (within reason)”
Agreed.
Having coached and played on over XXX teams in XX years, I can say that, without exception, I have never been associated with a winning team which didn’t have one or more high-energy players, off whom the other players fed.
There is an old saying that teams assume the personality of their Head coach.
That is wrong.
Teams assume the personality of their most respected and influential player(s), be that good or bad.
If your most respected and influential player(s) are lifeless stoics……..figure it out.
Orlando Cabrera or a clone with Orlando Cabrera’s personality is needed by this team.
Mauer, Kubel and Morneau will lead this team into a six or seven month coma.
LNP isn’t worth $4 million per year and Uggla probably is worth $6 million per year. But Punto v. Uggla isn’t the issue. Given the Twins’s overall payroll picture (think Mauer extension), Uggla probably doesn’t fit, particularly in light of the team’s need for a SP or two. Also, Uggla will cost personnel.
Coyotetom: why would the Marlins want Punto?
Sane,
Nick Punto=High Energy
Either way We made the wrong trade…… Boston had the right package
You mean that package that to this day we aren’t sure was ever actually on the table?
Boneyard says:
November 19th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Here is the list of SP FA’s.
(re-listing excluded)
~ Great. I say they ship the whole lot of them to a new league called the “I Made it to Major League Baseball But Now I Suck” division.
Brandon Phillips. Brandon Phillips. Brandon Phillips.
“Mauer, Kubel and Morneau will lead this team into a six or seven month coma.”
Sort of like the first 5 months of ‘09?
“You mean that package that to this day we aren’t sure was ever actually on the table?”
The package we will probably never be sure was on the table unless Theo Epstein writes his memoirs during our lifetimes and includes it as a footnote.
ES16
What’s your point about Punto?
Wow! 199 comments!
That’s got to be some kind of record for an offseason post that isn’t about a real acquisition.
Angel Morales, Carlos Gutierrez and Steve Singleton for Brandon Phillips.
“Brandon Phillips. Brandon Phillips. Brandon Phillips.”
$18 million over 2 years and will require the Twins to give up something of value. $18 million over 2 years and will require the Twins to give up something of value. $18 million over 2 years and will require the Twins to give up something of value.
“Great. I say they ship the whole lot of them to a new league called the “I Made it to Major League Baseball But Now I Suck” division.”
Pretty much, heetcpa.
Boneyard
I’m not saying the Marlins would want Punto. I’m just saying that a creative package of some type (you name the player(s)] could be put together for Uggla.
Oops. Sorry. That’s $19 million over 2 years for Phillips.
I hear you, coyotetom, I just don’t see the Twins acquiring an expensive (both in money and in talent) INF given the need to re-sign Mauer and acquire a SP when there are less expensive alternatives (e.g., Lopez) who are also pretty good.
coyotetom,
“What’s your point about Punto?”
Did I stutter?
Bone
Agreed
No - did I?
ES
No - did I?
“Everyone’s so enamored of Pavano, and yet he’s had injury problems, has been less durable than Sheets, is older, and is far less effective. My point is, if you’re going to take a flier, why do it on someone with a distinct lack of upside as opposed to someone who has been, and very well could be again, a true #1?”
Because one is an unknown commodity, while the other threw 199 and 1/3 pretty decent innings last season.
Let’s say that Sheets returns to his 2008 form and suffers no downgrade in his numbers even moving from the pitcher friendly NL to the the more hitter-centric AL. If he can only throw 100 innings, how valuable is he?
Assuming Sheets would be replaced by someone - say Liriano - for the other 100 innings, their combined numbers using Sheets of 2008 and Liriano of 2009, would look awfully similar to Pavano’s line from 2009 with the Twins.
Sheets/Liriano combo - 4.46 ERA / 1.35 WHIP
Pavano with the Twins in 2009 - 4.64 ERA / 1.37 WHIP
There is considerable risk in signing Sheets over Pavano. Will he return to form? How many innings can he pitch? How will he adjust to the American League? Granted there are questions about Pavano - will he pitch 200 innings, which Pavano is real - the Indians version or the Twins version, etc. But the question marks are much larger in Sheet’s situation than Pavano’s. They are large enough that there is certainly room for debate as to which would be the better pitcher for this squad.
“$18 million over 2 years and will require the Twins to give up something of value.”
I don’t think 19mil over two years is a bad contract. it would seriously upgrade a hole, fulfill a promise to increase payroll with the new stadium, and show Mauer (as much as any other potential pick-up) that we’re commited to winning and improving. He doesn’t get on base at a great clip but he plays very solid defense and hits for power at a power starved position.
I just wanna see SOME offense from our 2b position…..Casilla/Punto/Tolbert are just brutal at the plate.Get a good 2b and show Casilla the door. LNP can be the super utility player he really is , including backing up CF on rare occasions.Punto can get a couple starts a week backing up 3rd/2nd/ss and be the late inning def. replacement or pinch runner in the 9th. But the Twins cannot possibly make a serious playoff run giving away 2/3 ab’s per game with LNP. I would rather add Uggla and play him everyday rather than toss too much at a SP who plays once every 5th game. I would take a flyer on Ben Sheets on a incentive laden contract. He has great stuff , #1 stareter stuff , when healthy. the Twins really have no #1 type pitcher.
$19MM over two years……I personally don’t think the Twins would spring for that or give up what it takes to get Phillips. I think the Twins can get the same caliber of 2nd baseman from somebody a lot cheaper.
Let me once again state
Priority #1: Resign Mauer.
Priority #2: Acquire 1 or 2 quality starting pitchers.
Priority #3: Acquire a decent hitting decent fielding 2nd or 3rd baseman.
Priority #4: Add some more players to the bench thru free agency and putting Punto on IT by fulfilling priority #3.
I think its great so many Twins fans are so devoted to hit the chat today too !! The Vikings have a real shot to make a run in the playoffs yet the diehard Twins fans still have baseball on their minds. The Pohlads and Bill Smith HAVE to make some smart moves and put a VERY good team on the field this year. The taxpayers gave you your stadium , now give aus a reason to fill it in a down economy.
Pet D, I agree there is risk in signing Sheets. Never shied away from that. But I’m not sure where the 100 innings comes from. That is a huge assumption. If we can’t assume Sheets will pitch 200 innings, why can we assume he will pitch 100? Given that, it’s hard to then get to the 4.46 ERA/1.35 WHIP, particularly when factoring in someone else’s (Liriano’s) projected numbers.
More to the point, I agree the risk with Sheets is a bit greater (not a lot given Pavano’s history) than Pavano’s, but so is the upside. Pavano has never approached Sheets’s success, and I seriously doubt he ever will. Not at 34.
Patrick: I don’t think $19 million for Phillips is a “bad” contract in the sense the Vernon Wells has a bad contract. I am suggesting that amount does not fit with the Twins’s payroll particularly if you’re talking about giving up other players for Phillips.
Eric,
I agree it’s not a priority and that it would be a lot to take/give up, but I don’t agree that we can get a similar calibur of player. Phillips is an elite second baseman. He’s no Utley or Kinsler, but he’s right beneath them.
Sorry, Pete D, my fat fingers left off an “e” in your name. I hope you don’t think I was trying to get fresh with you.
nice coyotetom, great take, personal attacks are always great to hear.
Wade
Agreed.
Gobble
Sorry if I hurt your feelings. Maybe you should go to the girl’s volleyball blog.
“Phillips is an elite second baseman. He’s no Utley or Kinsler, but he’s right beneath them.”
Phillips is nowhere near Utley. Not even close.
Phillips is a league average hitter and a slightly above average fielder. Why spend the money AND talent to acquire him when you could just spend a lot less money to get Lopez, who actually outperformed Phillips last season?
Lala, BD1, Spock and others who love to spend the Pohlad’s money - I agree that payroll should go up. How about we see what Mr. Mauer’s new contract is before we call ownership “cheap”? Ownership has said over and over that they expect to spend about 52% of revenue on payroll. I expect that they will. Yes, the new park helps revenue - but we also lose all revenue sharing money.
Patrick -
I’m not denying Phillips talent by any means, I’m just not game for unloading the talent required to get him if they can’t afford to resign him after 2011. Now if a trade would include unloading Liriano, Perkins, Crain and/or maybe a prospect, then I would have to say go for it. I just feel that the Twins would have to ultimately give up Nathan (or another quality player like Span or Kubel), and I would rather keep him until he walks then cash him in now.
1. Everyone wants to trade Punto. Give it up! No one wants him, would you if you were a serious major league team with a manager not named Gardy?
2. Brandon Phillips makes too much sense, Bill Smith will never go for it.
3. Gardy does not have a good track record with Hispanic/Latino players. Lopez and Feliz will never be Twins. Gomez is gone, Casilla will be shown the door, Cabrera is history, etc.
Boneyard -
Just a number I pulled out of the air. Easier to do the math if I just took 200 innings and split them in half between two guys. I’m just assuming that with a guy coming off of an entire year away from pitching, you have to account that he isn’t going to make 34 starts for your squad. So those starts obviously need to be made by someone, and that someone isn’t likely to be very good.
So how many starts will Sheets make next year? How effective will he be after a year off? Will his numbers take a hit by moving leagues? Those are all questions where the uncertainty could make it not worth the risk.
another witty come back from the coyotetom. my feelings will be ok, how much pro ball did you play?
“Gardy does not have a good track record with Hispanic/Latino players. ”
What? Because they traded Carlos Gomez to get JJ Hardy, all of the sudden Gardy ‘does not have a good track record with Hispanic/Latino players’? Do you have more examples, or is it just Gomez?
Feliz stinks. End of story.
They are all undertain questions Pete D. I fully acknowledge the risk. If I had to guess, based on Sheets’s track record and tacking on an extra stay on the DL for the surgically repaired flexor tendon, I would guess Sheets will make 24 or 25 starts with something in the range of 150 to 160 IP. It’s very likely the change in leagues and rust from a year off will bump his ERA into the high 3’s. But his (or any #1, for that matter) true value would be felt in Sept. and Oct. when hopefully he will be getting rid of the rust. Frankly, given that he is an 8 year veteran, I’m not as concerned about the rust as I am the elbow. I can’t deny it’s a concern. The question also is: would Sheets even be willing to itch for the Twins?
At the end of the day (which it almost is), it boils down to the fact that I would probably take the risk (assuming the docs give their thumbs up) and you would spend elsewhere. The question is: what will Bill Smith do?
I’m laughing at my fat fingers again. “Pitch,” not “itch.”
only way we are getting solid #1 pitcher is through a trade. That trade include Morneau, Twins will never afford Mauer & Morneau… trade him while he is good and get something for him before he ends up like Hunter and leaves on his own and we have some scrub like Konerko playing 1st…
Morneau, Punto, and 1 or 2 pitching prospect to Marlins for Johnson and Uggla… cuddy can play 1st…
cy, under your trade scenario, the Marlins would take on more payroll than they’d be giving up. That’s not going to happen, even if the Twins were willing to make the deal.
Looks like LaVelle’s back! Look at the numbers on his post - not sure how much stock I would take on those numbers regarding JJ Hardy, but if they pan out……WOW
Howard and friends,
I know one place to find Lavelle and I’ll be wearing my purple there on 12/29!
ps. Let’s get Roy Halladay AND Chone Figgins…
Maybe I’ve started with the beers a little early, o.k?
Wow, 3 active blogs today! What a treat. So we already got Hardy. Now Lopez and Sheets too? They’re going to start calling us Pirates in Milwaukee…
Eric, fair enough. The Reds aren’t trying to win now though so the odds of having to trade any MLB ready players is low. Give them a few prospects and it could probably happen. Of course, at least one would have to be a high prospect, but give them one of our many top CF and that would be a start.
I thought we were told that by simply building the Twins a new stadium that this act alone would suddenly make them competitive. I thought they were already competitive in the Metrodome. Am I missing something? I still don’t understand anyone that supports tax dollars going to fund stadiums for private businesses. There are privately funded stadiums in the U.S. and that should be the model. Taxes are suppose to be minimal and fund basic government operations, nothing less & nothing more.
Bob, Bob…your 4:21pm post is so…incendiary and trite, simultaneously.
Word has it that Hispanic/Latino players have a really really bad track record with Bob.
You know why the Twins are one of only three teams in the bottom half of payroll rankings to win divisions in the past decade? (Oakland and Arizona are the others, and Arizona had median payroll) Because they don’t throw prospects around for cheap.
This is an exciting opportunity to solve problems at fabulous values and still hold on to the most valuable asset, your prospects. Polanco or Lopez; Crede or Feliz; Pavano, Sheets, or Washburn, and maybe two of them. Valencia or Hughes in the wings at 3B. Singleton, Tolleson, or Dinkleman all viable 2B guys in a year. Trade Harris for an Appy League standout and keep Tolbert and Punto as reserves. Swarzak, Manship, and Duensing starting in AAA, with Guerra, Gutierrez, Bromberg, Gibson, and Robertson coming up. Slama, Delaney, Burnett in the wings. Sign Randy Winn or Rocco Baldelli as your 4th OF, sign Trent Oeltjen to a minor league contract, sign Josh Towers as a 5th starter at AAA. Keep Perkins in the pen and let him grow up. Watch Bonser and Neshek come through. Delmon takes a step forward. Liriano becomes the league’s best #4 starter. Seriously, we don’t need to pay a premium for Brandon Phillips, Brian Roberts, Orlando Hudson, or Chone Figgins. As much as we like them, we will be thrilled at our longer-term results, because of the truth that prospects become great players. Span, Kubel, Morneau, Slowey, and Baker are all examples of prospects many of you would have gladly given up for who-knows-what in the past. This organization knows what it’s doing. For the first time in a long, long time, the stars are aligned so that the available talent and the revenues are such that our future prospects are very bright for a sustainable period of time. I watched Julio Becquer and Pedro Ramos play at Met Stadium in 1961. I saw Zoilo Versalles in his magical season. I just watched Joe Mauer do things I’ve never seen. What a kick! I will tell you all, I have never been as optimistic as I am today about this team. Ever. And yes, you can take some credit for this, OK?
#1 Sign Rich Harden, instant ace if he’s healthy. Health shouldn’t be a concern since the Twins feel comfortable going into the season with three #2 pitchers, and bunch of miscellaneous parts. So if worst happens and Harden gets hurt, the Twins won’t be any worse off than what they were perfectly happy going into the season with.
#2: Re-sign Orlando Cabrera, move him to 2nd Base. Gardy loves him, he seemed to fit well in the club house, and the guy just knows how to win. Moving him to 2nd base should mitigate some of the issues with O-Cab’s ageing throwing arm. The only thing I ask is, for god’s sake, move him out of the 2 hole.
#3: Non Tender JESSE CRAIN.
Catching up on some stuff:
We may not like HOW the money is being spread around, but I think it has become clear to anyone who’s genuinely paying attention that the Twins ARE increasing their payroll now that the new stadium is reality.
The Twins ARE increasing their payroll?
Don’t you mean should be, or even will be increasing thier payroll in the coming years?
They haven’t done that yet. They started the 2009 season with a payroll lower than 2007. Let’s let them actually DO it before we give them credit for it, dontcha think?
I do not see any reason whatsoever to sign Feliz. None.
Lopez at second might be a decent idea, but if that means pushing Punto to third, then it becomes a bad idea. For one thing, unless Punto’s arm gets much better over the winter, I don’t think he can play third any more. His arm was noticably weak this past season.
So…if they only add one infielder, IMO it needs to be a third baseman. With a good third baseman–cough Uggla or Beltre cough–I’d be OK with Punto at second.
I’d also very much like to see the Twins take a shot on one of the ‘big gamble’ FA pitchers this winter. Sheets would be a fine addition. Were it my choice, I’d go with Harden, but any of Harden, Sheets, Bedard would be fine with me. Throw in another name, who might end up a better choice than any of the above: Kelvim Escobar. Sign one of them, and cross your fingers. Signing Carl Pavano doesn’t make the Twins any better, at all. None, zero, zilch. It just gives them one more pitcher always on the verge of getting shelled. The Twins have enough of those guys. Signing Harden might not make the Twins better, but it also might give them a legit ace.
I think the Twins should re-sign Span. That leaves Ben Revere expendable. You can’t have a guy who doesn’t hit HR’s in a corner outfield spot. Instead of spending 8-10 million on Pavano, Washburn, or Penny we could acquire Josh Johnson for Revere, Slama, and a prospect. We could use the 8 million a year giving Johnson an extension (might not even cost that much) and get a pitcher that is much better and younger than any of the free agents.
At the end of the day, Baker, Blackburn and Washburn/Pavano does not compare to Verlander/Jackson/Porcello or Peavy/Buerhle/Floyd/Danks. We need a significant talent upgrade.
gobble
I played no pro ball. Did you? Why did you ask that question?
Actually, Chief, I’d have to go find the blogs that did the work, but from what I’ve read, the addition of Hardy’s salary in lieu of Gomez’s, and factoring in likely arbitration awards, the Twins already have over $80 million in payroll spoken for in 2010. So I don’t really think it’s inaccurate to say the Twins ARE increasing payroll. But hey, if you really want to split hairs in an effort to be as negative toward the organization as possible, feel free.
Before we get all ga-ga over free agent signings, the Twins have some serious 40 man roster decisions coming up and may find they lose some talented players through the rule 5 draft. Provided they are willing to take on some salary and can find a trading partner with multiple roster spots available, the Twins are in a good position. Also, better to trade a prospect or two in a package that helps you clear 40 man roster space than to lose them through the draft. Available: Perkins, Crain, Bonser, Casilla, Romero, Hughes, Keppel, Manship, Butera, Harris. Got to give something to get something.
Also Terry Tiffee and Luis Rivas are minir league free agents…..lol
What about Robb Quinlan as 3B insurance and a 1B back-up? (Free Agent)
For 2B options: Chris Burke - also plays OF (Free Agent - Atlanta) or Kevin Frandsen (AAA Contract- SF?
I read somewhere that Pettitte had the exact same surgery by the exact same doctor as Sheets did. Pettitte was fantastic afterwards. I think it was 2004. 2005 stats: 2.39 ERA, 33 starts, 222.1 IP, 17-9 record, .230 BAA. I’m sure there are plenty who had that surgery and failed, but look what could be. Is it more of a risk to sign him and him fail than to not sign him and have him put up those stats for another club? You be the judge.
I’d say I’m seconding Howard suggestion of Ben Sheets but I’ve been advocating this move since mid-season. This is a classic sort of Twins management type of “guy with something to prove & cheaper signing deal”.
At its best it could be Jack Morris 1991. At worst it’s another chance to a Minnesota team to steal a star from the Badger state.
I think we should all forget this discussion of 2nd base options. Punto is getting $4-mill next season. He’ll be playing 2nd. 3rd base is the area to upgrade the lineup. Other money can be used to get a #1 starter & bring back Pavano as a 3-4 starter.
Kirby. The problem is that there are very few reliable OBP 3b in the FA market. None that I can think of at least.
While on the other hand, there are OBP guys at 2b. Lopez and Polanco for example.
OBP because the Twinks need a number 2 hitter more then another power guy. Wow, 3 years ago, never thought i’d say the Twins needed ANYTHING over another power hitter.
What about Garrett Atkins? Has his stock dropped so low we wouldn’t consider him (if in fact he’s released by the Rockies)?
Ben Sheets? Yeah, we could put him in the rotation with Liriano and Slowey. Then, all three of them could have an excuse why they suck so much…
Jacksson is right about the 40 man roster decisions. A lot of Twins played last year - especially pitchers. If they do not pick up a #1, there will be some great competition to make the rotation. I see nothing wrong with putting together different trade packages. I think there are a lot of options and flexibility available.
Nice suggestion about Feliz at 3B. He played SO well at third for Philly. He really impressed me.
Re: the 40 man roster decisions…
Seth’s got the dirt on his site. One very puzzling addition to the 40 man.
Howard -
Are you saying Ben Sheets instead of Carl Pavano or in addition to Carl Pavano?
I am very excited to see Danny Valencia in a couple of years. If Figgens was signed, that would sidetrack Valencia for a few more years. If Feliz was signed, he would probably only be a Twin for one or two years( Depending on how Valencia develops.
First off, great ideas Howard, now we just need Bill Smith to take a peek at this page every once in a while. Another name I’d like to throw out there…Dan Uggla - the Marlins are trying to unload again and I think we could get him for relatively cheap. If we could somehow swing either him or Phillips I think we automatically become one of the most dangerous teams in the league.
I am one who would not like to see Uggla as a Twin. Hardy and Uggla in the same line-up…could be dicey. Hardy has a .262 career batting average ( .229 last year), and Uggla is a .257 career batter. I think it would better to go after Felipe Lopez. Not great power numbers, but he is more consistant and much more of a bargain.
Just for the heck of it…. going back to my 1:01 pm challenge above, I’m going to go on record with these predictions as “most likely” additions by the Twins:
1. Crede
2. Pavano
3. Lopez
4. Redmond
JC,
“One very puzzling addition to the 40 man.”
If Estarlin de los Santos is the “very puzzling addition” of which you are speaking, just check the organizational dearth of SS prospects.
I don’t think it’s at all puzzling.
JimC
Why do you think Redmond will be back. I think you and I are the only ones that think he should be. Not so sure about Crede unless he gets the same type of contract as last year. I would like Pavano back but not at “big money.” Do not know much about Lopez. Would like OC back (at 2nd) but, again, not for big money.
Valencia is 25. If he’s not ready for two more years, that doesn’t bode well for his future.
I did not realize that Valencia is already 25. My thinking is that, if he is good, at 25 he would already be up in the “bigs.” How many Twins are currently 25 and under?
Well, if our predictions are due, they’re due. Here are mine:
1. Pavano
2. OCab
3. Crede
4. Harden
With payroll at $83 million and Gardy having professed his love for at least 2 of the players mentioned above, I just don’t anticipate any big surprises. This isn’t my wish list, but rather what my crystal ball tells me will happen. Given my crystal ball’s track record, I fully expect someone else to be crowned GM of Section 220.
sane, it de los Santos puzzles me because I’ve heard/read nothing that would indicate that he’s anywhere close to being ready to perform at the Major League level for any team. It’s not that I don’t think he has value to the organization, I just don’t think there was much chance he’d be lost in the Rule V draft (and if he was, he’d likely be sent back when he doesn’t make the drafting team’s roster out of ST).
coyotetom, it’s not so much that I think Redmond SHOULD be re-signed, but I think there’s a better than even chance that he WILL be. I think I heard where there are something like 17 FA catchers on the market. My guess is that he re-signs with Minnesota and then they decide in ST whether he keeps his roster spot or if Morales can do the job.
JC,
“he’d likely be sent back when he doesn’t make the drafting team’s roster out of ST”
I see your point.
Although a good defense-only SS may be kept on a MLB roster, for late-inning defense and pinch-running.
Prospects at other positions have to (both) hit AND play defense to stick on an MLB roster.
But I certainly understand your thinking and you are very likely correct in that assumption.
Estarlin’s inclusion is puzzling, simply because he was flying under the radar. Over 75 different prospects were ranked last year by guys like Seth Stohs and Aaron Gleeman. Only one guy ranked de los Santos- as his 44th most promising prospect.
JC,
I guess my point is that the low risk of losing de los Santos is over-ridden by the potential catastrophe of losing the last and best SS prospect in the system.
I have not been a big Trevor Plouffe fan, going back to his HS days at Crespi(CA.) HS.
Ben Sheets is flashier, no doubt, but I’m not sure you spend a boat load of money on a guy that may have lost his stuff in surgey. Pavano would be a smarter bet, if both contracts are 1-2 years. Pavano’s not an ace, but he keeps you in games.
Punto will start at either 2b or 3b. So wait out the winter to see whose left of the Polanco, Hudson, and Lopez combo who all could benifit the team. Once again a 1-2 year deal.
“Only one guy ranked de los Santos- as his 44th most promising prospect.”
But, if even one MLB scout or front office official inquired about him, that may have set off an alarm in the Twins FO.
What did you not like about Plouffe’s game, sane?
sane, I would imagine your “I know it’s not likely we’d lose him, but what if we DO?” concern is very likely the same question the Twins asked themselves before making the decision to add him to the 40 man. Apparently someone(s) in the Twins organization thinks very highly of his chances to contribute before too long.
If you really want to immerse yourself in “intrigue”, it could also be that the Twins have some reason to believe one or more team IS interested in the guy and they want to send a signal that, “if you want him, you’re going to have to make us an offer because you aren’t going to get him for free.”
“What did you not like about Plouffe’s game, sane?”
I didn’t think he had a shortstop’s feet (agility) or hands.
Just a solid kid with a very good arm.
Ah. Thanks for the info, sane.
I’m pleased that Estarlin de los Santos is regarded that highly, because he is in my Top Names ranking. Behind Ludovicus Van Mil, Wander Guillen, Shooter Hunt, Billy Bullock, Romy Trinidad, Anthony Slama, and Winston Marquez. Just ahead of Santos Arias, Ramoncito Santana, Danny Rams, and Candido Pimentel.
so, sane, do you think plouffe would be better at second? third? listening to his mother and working on a college degree as his backup plan?
Why not sign FA Placido Polanco for your 2B hole? That is a two-fer: it fills the position and it weakens the Tigers.
Take a look at pitcher Jason Marquis. All he does every year is pitch a lot of innings and get double digit wins.
Rich Harden is a 5 inning pitcher who will break your heart or get injured, or both.
OC gets traded every other year because he is a ME First guy and wears out his welcome in the club house.
Josh Fields can’t do what his last name says. He also strikes out a lot and will sometimes hit HRs for you.
Sounds like just another kid that hite like a SS and fields like a 3B.
“do you think plouffe would be better at second? third? listening to his mother and working on a college degree as his backup plan?’
I think that Plouffe would be better at 3B after bulking up in the weight room.
He was a good enough HS pitcher to become the second coming of Jesse Crain.
But everyone should listen to their mother and stay in school.
On the other hand, we played against the Tucson (AZ.) Pony League All-Stars in 1997 and their SS was JJ Hardy.
He looked like the total SS package, then and now.
crazy as hell, sane. i hope it’s true.
For those that are curious, I’m betting that Brandon Phillips will come very cheap. There’s a glut of 2B on the market this year and 1 other big trade option in Dan Uggla (who will also be cheap). The point is that with their contracts as they are and the options available on the market, guys like Phillips or Uggla won’t cost much. I’m guessing that deal centers around Perkins and a prospect (but not a top one).
I’ll say this again… Pedro Feliz is one of the worst possible things we can do. I’d rather get Crede.
Howard,
Any truth to the rumor that the Twins are working on getting Uggla and Nolasco from Florida?
The Twins clear #1 offseason priority is sign Joe Mauer, and in addition to a big salary and years combo (close to 20MM/6-7 years), I that believe that Joe will take a “discount” (those # would be a discount compared to Yankee/Red Sox money) to stay at home provided that the Twins will commit to build for World Series runs, not playoff entries in a mediocre division. So, what will it take?
Need #1 - an Ace. Shut down starter with swing-and miss stuff. See Johan Santana (do not get me going on that crummy trade - any version of the Red Sox deal w/ Lester was far superior to the Mets deal). Twins banked on Liriano bouncing back and that does not look to be the path. Free agent solution (in order) Harden, Sheets, Bedard. Sure you have an injury risk, but champion teams have shut down starters, not strike throwing control artists. We do not have one, absent Liriano comeback. Cheaper alternatives include Escobar, Duchscherer, Brett Myers, Pedro, Penny - none of these quality SPs have Ace stuff, but will be less expense. By trade, Josh Johnson, but will cost us Hicks/Revere, Liriano, Swarzak, Ramos, Manship, etc. (2-3 top prospects, plus MLB ready Ps and 2B -Casilla). Josh Johnson is from MN and is 25 - so solves a goal of long term competitiveness. He has not been an Ace for long, has some injury history and will be expensive in terms of prospects, but not too bad from a salary perspective. Other trade options - mid season Brandon Webb or Matt Cain. Not as rich prospect package, but perhaps more expense.
Need #2 2B. Twins had Tolbert/Punto/Casilla starting at 2B-3B in the playoffs. Injuries contributed, but not enough OBP or OPS. FA route, 2B F. Lopez (B). Good OPS. Some speed. Much better than OCab’s .317 OBP - not a 2 hitter obp - a continual Gardy issue (see Gomez, Punto, Tolbert, OCab in the 2 slot). Polanco would work as well as a plan b. Good glove, great 2 hitter, Twin killer, but he is much older and may slow down quickly (his range looked bad down the stretch). Would also be happy with DeRosa, good bat, marginal glove. Versatility in Inf/OF would help bench need referenced below. Best scenario - trade for Brandon Phillips. Again - a long term solution with high ceiling talent - speed, pop, great range and arm, ok obp (in the .330-340 range). In the alternative, Dan Uggla. More pop, less speed and range, lower average, higher ops and obp (.340-.360). Will be less costly in terms of prospects and salary. Could also play 3B. Prospects would include no arb pitchers, a catcher, OF.
Need #3 - 3B. Like other readers, not hearing that Hughes and Valencia are future stars, but close to MLB ready. Valencia has poor obp and Hughes can hit and has no glove. So, Beltre would be a great glove, ok bat with power, but perhaps too much $$. Would go for Blaylock or Huff - knowing that Gardy can not resist playing Punto. Again helps bench. If the Twins could move Perkins for Kouzmanoff, Adkins, or Peralta and the Twins would be in a better spot. Or could look into prospects Brandon Wood or Mat Gamel - these players would be a bet for the future (and satisfy Gardy’s scccrappy Punto/Tolbert fetish) and would tell us where our 3B prospects are at this point. If all else fails, Crede very cheap would be plan C - but that means steady diet of Punto or Tolbert at 3B again. If dollars are too tight, having solved ACE and 2B, then roll with Punto/Harris and Valencia.
Need #4 bolster the bench. Redmond, Punto, Casilla, Tolbert, Gomez, Harris, Morales - that was the Twins bench - wretched. Great heart. Great character. No pop. No depth. I actually like Harris and pair him with Punto, and we are done with the slappy INFs. Tolbert in the minors. Casilla moved or demoted. Morales (barring trade) is a nice cheap bat, but a poor defensive catcher and Gardy is not a fan of that - which leaves us with Redmond (who looked done at the end of the year or no hit Butera). Ramos avoids arb clock in minors. Need a bat to play a corner. I think Need #3 and 4 can be combined because of the Punto factor. That said, would be thrilled with Hank Blaylock, Nomar, Jason Giambi, Aubrey Huff, Chad Tracy, Mike Sweeney, and/or Rick Ankiel (would solve our who is our backup CF). If injuries hit, the Twins would have a starter quality bat in the lineup. If Young regresses, Hardy can not rediscover his stroke, need a PH off the bench. We are set with one of these hitters. Only other need would be another power bullpen arm. Other than Nathan (and he seems to be losing mph), Mijares and Crain (who will likely get released), no power arms - a system weakness. Perhaps Boof and Neshek can dial it up after surgery, but like our rotation, lots of solid strike throwers, but not a lot of flame throwing intimidators. With these moves - (1) Harden/Sheets/Bedard/ Johnson / Webb / Cain; (2) Lopez/Phillips/ Polanco/ DeRosa/Uggla; (3) Beltre/Blaylock/ Kouzmanoff/ DeRosa/Huff/Adkins; (4) Blaylock / Nomar/Giambi /Tracy/Sweeney / Ankiel. Obviously, we would not sign the top player at each position, but a combo would result in a team designed to make a run the next two years and beyond. And we are not talking crazy unrealistic $ (again Mauer signing is job #1), or trading all of our prospects, but this is a real step, with JJ Hardy, of showing Joe and the fans, that the Twins are building for the World Series now and in the future.
this is the type of thinking that has kept the twins out of the world series since 1991.
I think the Twins should put Valencia at Third Base and allow him to play there the entire season. He is the answer to the team’s perenial missing Third Baseman problem. The Twins are not good at allowing young players to get major league experience until past the due date, which results in less experience and productivity for fewer years at the major league level. Valencia is a proven talent with a very high potential upside. As a right handed power hitter who can hit for average, he would greatly benefit the outstanding left handed hitters in the Twins lineup. I believe Danny Valencia could be an immediate success at Third Base and great benefits to the Twins team.
