Thoughts on Dominic Moore Trade
Posted on February 28th, 2007 – 1:22 AMBy Michael Russo
First, sorry about the delay. I’ll tell you though, if you’re a hockey geek like me, Canada is the place to be on trade deadline day. Three all-sports stations. Nonstop hockey/trade talk. I wouldn’t even know the Wolves got annihilated if it were not for Kent Youngblood’s phone call.
Congrats to the Florida Panthers tonight, who won their first shootout. As they say, even a blind squirrel … whatever, whatever, something about an acorn.
I got a funny text message from a buddy/colleague with this idea, but if I were still a Panthers’ beat writer, tonight would be a good night to write a tongue and cheek column on Todd Bertuzzi’s 10 best moments as a Panther, starting, well, with his ONE GOAL! Roberto Luongo for Todd Bertuzzi. Good move.
As for the Wild’s trade of a third-round pick for Dominic Moore, first, I have not had a chance to skim through your comments today. I promise to do so tomorrow, and I’ll be throwing up another Q&A opportunity at the end of the week.
But Jacques Lemaire didn’t seem very ecstatic. Jacques was in some kind of mood today. He said he knew “nothing” about Moore. He said, “He’ll be a good guy if we get any injuries.” He noted (referring to all the big names moving to Western Contenders), “Good players have moved to our side. Could make it tough.”
Excited, Wild fans?
From talking to Joe Starkey today, the Pittsburgh Tribune Review columnist, it’s clear Michel Therien was not a fan of Moore. Jacques Lemaire and Michel Therien are friends. It’d be a shame if Lemaire’s made a preconceived notion about Moore from a conversation with Therien.
Jacques said he didn’t know if Moore would debut against the Flames Wednesday. Incidentally, I got some emails today asking about the status of Wyatt Smith. Regardless of this acquisition, Smith will be here as rosters were expanded today.
My opinion: Yanic Perreault, the guy the Wild really targeted, was too expensive. I agree that a second-round pick and a prospect was too much (what Toronto gave up for the vet faceoff star). So the Wild went with Moore, a quality defensive forward, who is also above-average in the faceoff circle.
At the very least, he should be an upgrade and add depth in case of injury. I talked to three sports writers, three scouts and one exec from another team today. All had flattering things to say about Moore. The common denominators: terrific work ethic, outstanding penalty killer, great skater, VERY little finishing touch, although he goes to the areas you need to score.
But I have to tell you, I think there needs to be some perspective here.
The Wild is in Year 6 of its organization. That is infancy stage compared to everybody else. I know everybody always wants a blockbuster. But the goal here should be to build a quality winner for years to come. The way to do that is to give pieces of the future one heck of an experience, both in getting to the playoffs and the playoffs itself. That means quality ice time and responsibility for guys like Pierre-Marc Bouchard, Mikko Koivu and Brent Burns.
To overspend for Billy Guerin or Keith Tkachuk or Todd Bertuzzi or Peter Forsberg or Mattias Norstrom makes little sense, to me. First of all, there’s no assurances. As Wes Walz says in tomorrow’s article, the Wild upset a pair of “All-Star teams” in Colorado and Vancouver in 2003. And as I wrote in last Sunday’s column, there’s no such thing as a playoff upset anymore. Other than Detroit, which beats the Wild easily every time they meet, I think the Wild could match up vs. virtually every playoff contender in the West. (Maybe not Calgary on the road)
I say, give the kids the experience and let them get better for it.
Also, if you think everybody steps up but the Wild, remember, the Wild did more last offseason than most teams in the NHL. It rebuilt its team with guys like Pavol Demitra, Kim Johnsson, Mark Parrish, Keith Carney, Niklas Backstrom, etc.
Gaborik was hurt most this season. If he’s healthy, the Wild conceivably could be leading the Northwest Division by 10 points. Gaborik and Demitra (33 points in the last 12 games) are almost an acquisition in itself.
Gaborik said today, “Look at the team we had when we went to the conference finals [in 2003], and this is a better team. There’s a lot of good things happening in this group right now. Hopefully we can push it forward and carry it to another level.”
Anyways, I’ll write tomorrow. Have to hit the sack. I’ll be putting up a Q&A any day.
125 Responses to "Thoughts on Dominic Moore Trade"
The Wild are in good shape. I like the team as it is. The chemistry and the makeup of that team is there. They got the making to be really good come playoff team and future years.
Why fix something that was broke?
I agree with what you said, Mike.
It all goes back to ‘the plan’. I just want to know one thing. When will the Wild brain trust decide that it is time to win now?
Sure, we have the most talented Wild team ever. But, are there any guarantees about the future? Gaborik and Demitra have health issues. Parrish is getting older. Do you think Carney will be around in 2 years?
This franchise has been described as a model for the new NHL. What they don’t tell you is that it’s the owner’s model…not the fans. I say that because the fans only care about winning. I wish I could say the same about the Wild management.
I thought the wild were winning? When i look at the standings the wild is in 7th place in the conference, 2 points from 1st in the division, 2 points from 6th place in conference and 4 points from 5th. They also have more points than 7 other teams in the west and 10 teams in the east. Yup, the wild are not winning.
GreenStar…how right you are. We should be planning the parade right now. 7th place is where it’s at. How could I have the nerve to complain? That 7th spot will be just like home ice if we win a road game.
Lemaire’s reaction to the acquisition (or lack of it) just reinforces my opinion.
kj - i’ll buy your season tickets if you don’t want them.
I’ll say it again. The Wild management doesn’t care about winning the Stanley Cup. They’ve proved it after the lockout by going cheap and releasing Andrew Brunette. Trading for Adam Hall and Dominic Moore is meaningless. IF they were anything more than bit 4th liner players the Rangers and Pens wouldn’t have dealt them away. The original plan was “Just happy to have a team”. Fans got sick of it, so the revised their plan to “Just hoping to get lucky and sneak into the playoffs”. There is no plan for “Gotta win the Cup” and there never will be. Mediocrity is the Wild’s future for a looooooong time. Get used to it.
You could be a Timberwolves fan! They have a big star that can’t carry the team or win a championship
I like the Lemaire team concept and guys that are working well together. This team concept is not seen in major league sports anymore and needs a comeback.
Wild might not win the cup, but they will get close again. For a 6 year team I will be happy with that.
We didn’t sell the farm like some teams and I feel we will have the same result.
Detroit made a major mistake getting Bertuzzi…I am still laughing about that one.
Plenty of teams have proven that you can’t buy yourself a cup. It takes time to build a team and I for one think we are on track.
The Wild are not one of the elite teams, and buying a player or two in exchange for high draft picks wouldn’t have made them one this season. That doesn’t mean they don’t have an outside chance of going far in the playoffs, and I’m happy to enjoy the ride if they do. But I want to see Doug save something for the future.
Mike, We should probably change the plan to the one Columbus is using to win the cup. It is so much better than ours and they have lower draft picks than us every year.
Was I expecting a blockbuster trade? - No. Was I expecting something more than Dominic Moore? - Yes. To quote TSN’s scouting report: “… Will have to battle extra hard just to keep a job at the NHL level”. Honestly, this was making a trade for the sake of making a trade.
More than a handful of pens fans are disappointed to see Moore go, so maybe he’ll fit in. We’ll see how he looks, I guess. Hopefully Lemaire will like his speed and two-way play.
Would it be possible to keep the sky-is-falling vs. everything-is-sunshine posts over at wild.com? It’s the same old tired BS arguments from both sides.
Let’s not forget that Moore is Harvard’s 11th all-time leading scorer. So, we’ve got that going for us which is nice.
http://www.wildhockeyguide.blogspot.com
I am assuming that most people in MN have never seen the guy play. I have had been lucky enough to watch every Penguins game via NHL Center Ice this year. He is like a young Wes Walz. He isn’t quite as fast as Walz but he wins more face-offs.
I am glad they didn’t make any blockbuster trades. They would have had to get rid of prospects (which we don’t have a supply of) and probably a young roster player–Burns, Koivu, Bouchard, for a rental player who isn’t going to bring us the cup.
I’d rather give the ice time to the youngsters and see what this team can do. Guerin, Souray, etc. would not have brought the Cup to MN this year.
I don’t think the sky is falling and I am not drinking the kool-aid either. At the beginning of the season the upgrades were touted as being pieces to put us in a position to make a playoff run. That has happend. Obviously we do not know what the real options were in front of Risebrough. I just think at some point you change from the mindset of ‘the plan’ to ‘the future is now’.
Perhaps that will be the philosophy next year, or the year beyond that.
CLG…I may be critical, but I am not stupid…:)
Mike: Your position is a difficult one to defend.
First, the Wild management team has more Stanley Cups than any other team in the league. I wouldn’t be surprised to see that our coaches/GM/scouts have more combined Cups than any other team in history.
How many Cups have you won? I sure haven’t won any. How can you (or I for that matter) POSSIBLY have a better idea of how to build a Cup champion team than they do?
I don’t think Naegele is another Jeremy Jacobs or Bill Wirtz. I think he’s a hockey player and fan who wants to win Cups. He’s also a big-time business man who would not be afraid to call an employee out when it’s needed.
And again, would you rather win one Cup and then be screwed for years because of the price you had to pay to win it, or develop to the point where you are in contention to win it - actually in contention - every year?
I’ll take a dynasty over a one hit wonder any time.
I had a thought the other day. What reason does management have for trying to win it all? or even being that good? They sell out all the time. even when they are terrible, they will sell out. In different markets, in order to make money, or stay employed, they have to win, and win often. That is one problem with having such a large and loyal fan base.
The Wild needed to upgrade their faceoff effectiveness, and that is what they got. I am glad they didn’t send prospects and picks away for a rental. The Wild are not ONE player away from being a Stanley Cup lock. They need a lot of things. So there was no reason to overpay for Guerin, et al. What they have now is an oppotunity to gain valuable experience for the players that they will need to be consistent winners in the future.
Russo has a pretty good perspective of the whole thing if you ask me.
We didn’t land the biggest name available yesterday, but I don’t think we really needed to. As all of the trade talks were swirling, I kept thinking to myself; who would we want to get rid of if we did bring in a new player? A guy like Souray or Perreault would have been great, but we would have had to give up way too much to get him. Hats off to the Blues and Flyers for getting the crazy returns they got for Foppa & Tkachuck. I’m glad we didn’t give away the farm for a rental.
Reid: That doesn’t last forever, even here in MN. I think the Wild management knows that they need to produce a winner to keep the fans excited. I think if they hadn’t made the major offseason moves they did and were now languishing at the bottom of the western conference, they would not still be selling out games.
I am curious about one thing, maybe Russo can put in the Q&A, I am puzzled by Lemaire’s reaction to the Moore trade. I understand it’s not a jump up and down move and if he doesn’t know the guy then it is hard to comment, but from the description he seemed downright grumpy. It seemed to me from earlier conversations that his biggest worry was depth at center, which is what he got (especially a two-way defensive minded center, the type Jacques seems to love) so why did he seem so pissed? Was he expecting more? Bad meal on the plane? Just curious.
Don’t get me wrong, after six years of giving the organization money as a season ticket holder, I understand the occasional grumble…but you’d think we were in NY or something with the way some people “expect” winning. Some of these posts, like “Mediocrity is the Wild’s future for a looooooong time. Get used to it”, are really funny. What’s an acceptable rate of winning for these people? How soon, and how often, must a team win the cup to make these people happy? The Wild have improved their stats (including wins or points) almost every year right?
Speaking of the fabulous plan in Columbus, how about the those Panthers? (Sorry Russo) So far, I prefer the route the Wild are taking. And, the whole never gonna make everyone happy thing really rings true here…
To piggyback on what DP and others have said, is it not a little strange that Risebrough made a trade without really consulting Lemaire? I’m also still unsure of how this guy “upgrades” our faceoff proficiency at 51% when Koivu is at 49%.
DP, You know JL never really says what he is thinking unless he his trying to motivate someone. Even when he is giving someone praise he doesn’t gush about them much. I wasn’t suprised he didn’t know anything about Moore considering he is only a second year player and plays in the east on a team we never see. Unless he is watching games of eastern conference teams on his time away from the rink. I think thats what scouts are for.
The bottom line is this: the only time that it is worth it for a team to trade lots of draft picks and young players for an established star is when they are already on the verge of winning a cup, and need just one or two more pieces to have the complete puzzle. Regardless of your feelings about Risebrough and Lemaire (and mine are somewhat mixed,) the Wild are not in that position. Had Risebrough traded for Guerin or Souray or whomever, Minnesota still would have been a severe long shot for this year’s Cup Finals, and they would have had less to work with next year.
An instructive comparison might be the Twins. They sucked for years after Pohlad slashed payroll in the mid-90s, but Terry Ryan patiently built a core of good players while declining the temptation to make blockbuster trades in an effort to take a shortcut to success. As a result, once their roster seasoned, the Twins began winning and haven’t stopped. Nothing guarantees a championship, ever, especially in hockey, but I’d much rather watch a team that builds from within and strives for a roster that can compete year in and year out than one that constantly makes a desperate leap for all the marbles, then is forced to fall back into the basement while it dumps the bloated salaries and rebuilds.
Reid has touched on a very key point: The Wild have no incentive to win the Cup. The Wild fans here are like the Cub fans in Chicago. They’ll keep filling up the X no matter what. Expectations for Wild fans are so low that management is more than happy to oblige and save the money. Why try to win Stanley Cups when your fan base has no expectation that you ever will? Naegle, Risebrough & Co. are more than happy to muddle along and maybe luck into the playoff picture once every 5 or 6 years.
I firmly believe that it will take more than 10 years of mediocrity for anything to really change on the attendance front. When the team doesn’t win for a couple years, more average fans will be able to get tickets. It will no longer be trendy for businesses to wine and dine with tickets. That will open the door for regular fans like me to spend a week’s wage on a ticket. And I will, since I love seeing pro hockey. I would imagine that many people would follow suit and take advantage of the available tickets, as apposed to the current situation where it is very difficult to get any. This will keep attendance up, thus making the franchise complacent, and not have to make major moves.
Our current path of being on the bubble, or barely first round doesn’t really lead anywhere. If we keep drafting late in the first, we are going to have a pile of 2nd and 3rd line forwards. That really won’t win much in the long run. I haven’t seen very many game changing players come much after the middle of the first round in hockey. i know we can all mention a couple, but it is rare.
Mike, You completely ignore the fact that the playoffs are a windfall of $$$ for owners. If you think the owners are greedy than you’d expect them to shoot for the playoffs and the additional revenue that it provides. It’s laughable that this team went out and got Demitra, Johnsson, Parrish, Carney and resigned Gaborik and fans think the ownership doesn’t want to win. Please go back to cheering for the Wolves or Vikings. We don’t need ya!
So, because Mike expressed his opinion, he should have to go? That really doesn’t facilitate a healthy discussion. I think it is awesome there is a place we can all come together and express our opinions. Put thoughts out there for other fans to ponder.
Reid: I’m not sure the suits will vacate the games after a few years of mediocrity. It hasn’t happened in Boston, Chicago, New York or LA - cities where there are considerably more client entertainment options than St. Paul.
But I think you hit on the critical variable in Doug’s plan. The biggest difference between our situation the first five years and that of the Senators was that we were just successful enough to NOT pick in the top few picks. There has been one draft since the Wild were born that was considered truly deep (first round). And there’s always a big dropoff from the first 5-7 to the rest of the first round. Our average first round draft position has been 9th.
This will certainly make it more challenging to us to get there in the same amount of time as the Senators did (a decade, give or take). But we’ve already had one cinderella run to the WCF, and we’re basically in the playoffs this year. So I’d say we’re ahead of the Senators in many respects.
I wouldn’t unnecessarily compare the Twin Cities to New York and LA. I think there are a few more entertainment dollars spent there as well. A bit of a different dynamic. I meant to carry on with the 10 year mark, but mentioned a couple instead.
JK THANK YOU. ENOUGH WITH THE ARMCHAIR MANAGEMENT. THE WILD ARE DOING JUST FINE. IT TAKES MORE THAN MILLION DOLLAR PLAYERS TO MAKE A TEAM A TEAM. WAKE UP MIKE. MN HAS THE NATIONS BEST COLLEGE AND HIGH SCHOOL PROGRAMS THAT CAN BE VIEWED VIA T.V. WHY WOULD AN A STATE SO STEEPED IN HOCKEY HISTORY AND KNOWLEDGE FOLLOW A LOSING TEAM? MAYBE BECAUSE WE CAN USE THAT KNOWLEDGE TO SEE THE FUTURE OF THE WILD AND NOT THE “RIGHT NOW” LIKE JK SAID GO BACK TO CHEERING THE VIKINGS AND WOLVES…..
True, they went out and spent money this past off-season, and I believe it’s fair to say that every off-season aquisition has been a failure. What’s more, this team is ostensibly built around a player in Gaborik who’s never played a full season because he can’t stay healthy. Demitra has performed well below expectations (another player who can’t stay healthy), Parrish & Carney are washed up, Johnsson is a bust, Nummelin too small, Radivojevic a klunker. This team is where it is this year because Colorado and Edmonton have had horrible seasons.
Let’s not degenerate into a flame war here, this discussion is fun let’s keep it that way. Mike is certainly entitled to his opinions and free to express them. However if one comes to this discussion and continues to bash the team over and over, people will wonder why you bother.
And please, please, lose the all caps.
I am just saying that in this mode, will not be able to draft difference makers, that will put the team from .550 to an actually cup contender. And being in The State of Hockey, there isn’t the financial climate to really change the cycle we are in. Don’t get me wrong, I love the team. I just know we aren’t building a dynasty. We are building a 8th/9th place team. It is tough to see all the other teams in the division that are above us, getting better. They didn’t all sacrifice the farm. A second round pick is not the farm.
p.s. The caps lock key is on the left hand side of keyboard.
Thanks for saying that, DP.
No one has answered my questions about why Lemaire wasn’t consulted and how much difference Moore will make in our faceoff wins. Why would Risberough mess with the chemistry of the team this way? Wyatt Smith has been playing like a man possessed lately. Maybe he still will, but now you’ve got one more choice to make about which FW to scratch every night.
I wouldn’t say everything has been a bust. I would say the Johnsson signing has been a negative. I would have kept Mitchell considering he is less expensive, and a better defender. But that is hindsight.
Reid, Can you honestly say that if the team added Perrault the team would be a true cup favorite? Even Guerin and they aren’t the true favorite to win the cup. So does it make sense to give up an early pick and a prospect for a rental player when you’ve already admitted the prospect pool is shallow?
The teams adding talent are in desperation mode. Win now or never. The Wild aren’t there yet? Who do they lose next year? I could see them making these moves in the last year of Gaborik’s contract when the team will have to make some tough decisions on who they’re going to keep and let go due to cap restrictions
I think we’ll have to wait for Russo to answer as to why DR didn’t consult Lemaire, who knows.
I think you have to look at the Moore move more as a future potential than an immediate improvement, although he could help the team in killing penalties and winning key faceoffs in the defensive zone. I agree that Smith really has been playing better lately, but I suspect DR is not sure about his potential and thinks Moore has more future potential.
I don’t think it is fair to say all the offseason acqusitions have been failures. Demitra has played well, the D guys have been somewhat disappointing, but Nummelin may prove his worth is shootouts down the stretch. As for Gaborik’s health it is certainly a question but it seems to me that his groin problem can be overcome and if he can stay healthy he will be one of the best forwards in the NHL, worth the chance I would say.
So every team around us in the west is in desperation mode?
I never mentioned Perrault. I was commenting on teams in the west. I wanted to see a defender who doesn’t cough up the puck in front of his own net. All it takes is a hot goaltender. and some defensemen in from of him. Like Anaheim a few years back. i am sure we all remember that. I think a solid defender would have made a difference. I don’t think a 2nd round draft choice would have been selling the farm for one. Who knows. we could win it all, just as we are. I guess that is why they play the games.
I agree with Reid. There’s no inication that this team has any desire (management, not players) to be anything more than a fringe team with respect to the playoffs. Yesterday’s inactivity at the trade deadline is proof positive of it. Why not go after a Bill Guerin or a Ryan Smyth to try to lock up the #3 seed and gain home ice advantage? The only real conclusion is that they’re not interested in winning because they’re cheap. Or I should say, they are only interested in winning if it comes cheaply. Kudos to the Islanders for landing a player the calibre of Ryan Smyth. They were a fringe/bubble team in the East. Not any more. They saw an opportunity to be Cup contenders and took the gamble. Not much of a gamble really when you look at the quality of Smyth is as a player. Something the Wild management will never do.
I agree that a shutdown defenseman who can actually clear the puck would make the biggest difference for this team right now. I can only assume that DR thought the price was too high for what was available. We will see, if the wild does not upgrade the D on the offseason I will be disappointed.
But if the Islanders don’t win the cup, and Ryan Smith leaves in the offseason, then they are out 3 first round draft picks for nothing. Seems like quite a gamble. I also don’t think Edmonton would have traded Smith to another team in the division.
And I just don’t think Guerin puts this team over the top. A solid D guy, maybe.
Smyth will MAYBE get them to the second round and WILL NOT resign with the Islanders. Is what the Islanders gave in return worth winning one round of playoffs? I don’t think so.
I too am very disturbed by JL’s response to D. Moore joining the team. Bill, scouts job or not, the coach should have an idea. That is retarded.
This talk of Wild fans having no expectations is killing me. That is harsh. Screw that! I EXPECT to win. And to win, this team give 60 MINUTES of effort each night.
That is why you hear things like: “this is a young, developing team.”
This is a group of very talented individuals. But, we have yet to pull together as a team fully. But we are on our way.
So, for now (and now only) I’ll accept Doug’s “lets build for the future” plan.
This season has been very exciting, definitely better than last. I feel confident with this group going into the playoffs. I’m cheering for them all the way.
Gabby is healthy. Mikko looks great. Butch is flying. Burns is gaining confidence, hell even Skoula has buckled down of late.
And Niki in net is going to give us some chances. So, let ‘em play. It ain’t over til its over.
- “Wild linemates Marian Gaborik and Pavol Demitra have 33 points in the past 12 games.” Not bad for busts…
- “…the Wild has the NHL’s second-most victories (14) since Jan. 11.” And “14-3-2″ in their last 19. Not bad for a team destined for mediocrity…
- Currently, the Wild are: 13pts behind the best team in the conference and 23 pts ahead of the worst, 2pts behind the division best and 10pts ahead of the division worst.
I realize there is more to the season than the last couple of months, but wow, I don’t even know if I can describe the negativity here as half-empty. When the glass is 3/4 full, and you’re seeing 1/4 empty and complaining…what is that? Still think this organization is doing the right things…
Interesting (maybe only to me cause everyone else already knew this) tidbit I didn’t realize: Dominic Moore is the younger brother of Steve Moore (the guy whose career was ended by Bootuzzi with one of the ultimates in cheap shots).
You honestly think Kevin Lowe would have given a division rival Ryan Smyth? Get real.
All I wanted going into the deadline is Yanic and a tough defensive dman. We got a similar player to Yanic and there weren’t really that many dmen moved, although I think Hale may’ve been a good fit. Burns and Skoula seem to have elevated their play lately, so maybe it’s not that big of a need anyway. The ‘washed up’ Keith Carney leads the team in +/-, and the ‘washed up’ Mark Parrish (30yo) will top 20 goals, which is what I’d expect. IMO we have the ability to roll at least three lines that can score, yet all are defensively responsible.
Gaborik - Walz - Demitra
Bouchard - White - Rolston
Hall - Koivu - Parrish
I guess Guerin would look good instead of Hall. But for Pouliot and a first (at least)? Would that really be worth it? I think that when considering ‘the plan’ we need to remember that every year these guys develop (Koivu, PMB, Burns, Schultz, etc) we become a stronger team, all be expending…nothing.
I find it curious that in all of this there was not one mention of goaltending…
So if anyone were to get hurt… who is the next guy up?
LW-Pouliot
C-Irmen
RW-Ward
D-Belle/Reitz
G-Harding
I think Harding could probably step in and be okay. The rest? I’m not able to watch all the Houston games, but from what I’ve seen of their cup of coffee experiences–I don’t think these guys are ready for a regular role in the NHL. And probably not ready for the intensity of the Stanley Cup Playoffs.
The Wild needed another forward who could step in and not hurt the team. Moore is probably that player and while a defenseman would’ve been nice, it’d be tough to meet the asking price for Souray considering the Wild already have dealt their 07 2nd Rd pick in the Skoula/Belle trade.
Hey Coach! What do you know about that 4th line Center from Pittsburgh? You know, from the team you don’t play for 4 years at a time? No, no, the other Eastern team. Yeah. The second year player that has 15 points this season.
“OOH, Dat one. He da first one I try and find watching every game of every team during office time when we’re not worrying ’bout own team.”
While everyone is certainly entitled to an opion, I have to agree that some of the positions being taken here aren’t very defensible and really do just sound like whining. I think this teams 75 pts is a little deceiving. I said it last night and Russo has also pointed it out - if they win just even a handful more games during the period Gaborik was out, the Nucks would be comfortably behind them now. And the fact is, like it or not, they have played very well for almost the last 2 months. So, why is everything so bad? If the Wild continues to play like this for the remaining 5 weeks, they should pass Van. anyway, and even if they don;t they’ll be surging into the playoffs where history has shown that home ice ain’t always what it’s cracked up to be. Not that we should start planning a parade in DT St. Paul in early June, but I just don’t see the reason for such a dire outlook - really flies in the face of reason.
It is just hard for me to see the team do just enough to slide into the playoffs. Like you said, its quite a bit of a long shot to start parade planning. They are a solid team compared to their peers this season. Tonights game shall be an interesting test. I don’t have a dire outlook, it just seems like a tease every year. and they do seem to win just enough to be out of the running to draft any really difference makers.
Goaltending will be huge. Can they start many again this year with how well backstrom has played? I know they winning has been helped along by Gaborik’s retun. Can they ride Backstrom all the way? Do they platoon? Do they give Manny a couple starts to make sure he can back up if Backstrom falters?
The Wild *ARE* in Year 6 of its organization.
It annoys me to no end that the press use “is” after “Wild”.
“The Twins is in playoff contention”? I don’t think so.
Mike - go talk to people about the Timberwolves - we don’t want you here, you obviously don’t know very much about hockey so take a hike!
Reid, I couldn’t agree with you more about the importance of goaltending in the playoffs - such a difference maker. And I think it’s just as important for the teams at the top of the conference as it is for those at the bottom.
TSN had a break down of the Wild’s record with Gabby, so we can chew on this and make of it what you will (I find it encouraging):
-Overall: 35-23-5=75 pts (1.19 pts/game)
-W/ #10: 20-6-3= 43 pts (1.48 pts/game)
-W/o #10: 15-17-2=32 pts (0.94 pts/game)
Reid: What if you just shift your perspective a little bit? It won’t hurt. Just try it.
You say the team did “just enough to slide into the playoffs”.
What if they made the moves in the summer, and Hall and Moore with an eye on taking the NEXT step towards being a team that will challenge for the Cup.
Not the next STEPS, not the LAST step, the NEXT step.
Gang, I think the only arbiter of who “we” do and don’t want here is Mr. Russo.
I don’t think Mike has called anyone here a name, or impugned anyone’s dignity.
It’s a message board on a blog. We’re only as good/smart/honorable as what we type. Let’s try to be inclusive. I’d hate to have this dissolve into the boards at wild.com and have Russo shut it down.
I’d also hate to have to change my opinion of the good folks of the State of Hockey.
hockeydad: do you have time to find the goals for per game with and without Marian in the lineup as well? That would complete the picture I think. I’ll try also.
Does anyone really think the addition of Tkachuk or Guerin would have put us in the driver’s seat for the playoffs. Who wants to bet that Atlanta ends up regretting this decision next year? Hey maybe we could have mortgaged our entire future on Ryan Smyth, only to get bounced in the early rounds of the playoffs, and then have Smyth resign with Edmonton in the offseason. Awesome!
WITH Marian in the lineup (29 games) the Wild have averaged 2.96 goals per game.
WithOUT him in the lineup (34 games) they have averaged 2.56 GPG.
His 20 goals on the season equal 23.25% of the goals scored by the team.
I’ve followed this team since day one and been a season ticket holder every since the first season. I’ve sat through numerous games in the early years where they Wild got their butts kicked so bad it had to actually detach myself from caring about who won and focused on watching great hockey plays regardless who was making them. I am very satisfied with the progress this team has made and the level they’re at right now (middle of the playoff pack!) When I hear people rant about how they want it all and they want it now it remindes me of spoiled children, a bandwagon jumper who is late to the party and mad because the fireworks aren’t going off right this second or the streamers aren’t flying. Relax and enjoy the game. The way this team is going, they will be the envy of the league for years to come.
Remember last year’s Minor League Wild? I do. I was as mad as anybody as to how cheap the Wild management was. They stepped up last summer. They are now near the cap. They are a better team. Only a couple of minor leaguers left. Also, nice to have to argue about what to do when Manny is healty, isn’t it? Get your playoff ticket money in before the 19th.
Please don’t get me wrong. I am just as excited as anyone else about the team’s playoff chances. I can’t wait to see what the team can do in the playoffs. I am hoping for our system to work. I would love nothing more than a team that embraces the team concept to succeed. I love seeing teams that exemplify the no one part is bigger than the whole. Its great seeing the wild succeed with a lunch pail type attitude. Games that they play all 60 minutes, they can beat anyone.
That being said, it will be an uphill battle. Every other team in the top 8 of the west made a significant move to improve their teams.
When you compare the Wild’s front office compared to that of Detroit’s for example, well there’s a lot left to be desired. Year after year the Red Wing’s are bonafide threat to win the Cup. Players like Yzerman and Shanahan come and go but Detroit is always there. I don’t see that the Wild management has the same type of resolve. Far from it in my view.
Here’s how the Wild graded out for their efforts at the trade deadline (from ESPN):
• Minnesota Wild: To be fair, GM Doug Risebrough did most of his shopping in the offseason, and having Marian Gaborik back healthy after missing the first three months of the season is almost like getting a new player. But it was nonetheless surprising the Wild didn’t add some offense given they’re likely to face Anaheim, Nashville or Detroit in the first round. Treading water. …………that’s being kind.
Mike - you’re comparing apples and oranges. Detroit is a friggin Original 6 team and the Wild is in season #6. Besides, I very much remember how bad Detroit was for most of the 80s - they routinely missed the playoffs when 4 of 5 Norris teams qualified. So, yeah, it’s been impressive that Detroit has maintained a quality team for as long as it has, but as a franchise it had a bit of a head start, don’t you think? Also, Yzerman and Shanahan have been gone one season, so let’s not overstate it.
Mike, the only real conclusion we can make here is that your overzealous assumption that forced mediocrity is all the Wild want is unfathomably unthoughtful and severly lacking in any fundamental reason. You were probably complaning when the Wild took a back seat in the Free agent bonanza after the lockout, with Risebrough knowing full well that the year after would have an even deeper FA pool. It’s not to be assumed that inactivity at the trade deadline is direct result of an overall “mediocrity standard” you seem so convinced the Wild have written in stone in their operating manual. They stepped up to the plate this offseason with several acquisitions and superior scouting (Backstrom, Nummelin) To me that is a very strong indication they want to be more than a fringe playoff team. Mortgaging the future and picking up the blockbuster may have somewhat of a negative effect on teams in my opinion. The easy media cliche the players on those teams all use is ” management is showing us they want to win the cup.” What that really says though is, we better win the cup or else we’re all out of here and this team will have rebuild itself after the rental players are gone and hope our 5th, 6th, and 7th round picks can play soon. I think the Guerin deal was probably the best becasue he reunites with Thornton and McClaren, and will fit well in the SJ lockerroom. The other moves are saying “win or else….” and that makes those players squeeze the stick a bit tighter. Each team that makes the playoffs is a Cup contender Mike. I like our chances because this team has grown together this year, they are playing well at the right time of year and management just gave them a certain amount of respect by saying….”you got us here (playoffs), now take the next step and show us what you can do.” As Walzy says, “We still have to pull the same rope”
OK, Hockeydad. Let’s use Nashville as the example then. Same story. Wild management pales in comparison.
The Predators haven’t made it out of the first round of the playoffs in their only appearance. Their attendance is below average. They have picked up Kariya and Forsberg but everyone else is pretty much homegrown. So let’s hope that a lot of our core players turn out as good as the Predators! Especially since they have had a two year head start.
We’ll see if “Walzy’s” words have any meaning tonight after they get pounded in Calgary.
What has Nashville done that the Wild hasn’t? Have they made it to the second round of the PO? the WCF? Where will Nashville be next year when Foresberg is gone?
Judas Priest, Mike is the ultimate troll. Wait, actually he’s the only one that sees the truth. The rest of us have just drunk the Kool-Aid.
How, exactly, does the Wild management “pale” in comparison to Nashville (or Atlanta or Columbus for that matter)? I guess I fail to see how that franchise is light years ahead of the Wild. I think they entered two season ahead of the Wild, but I certainly think there’s less 2 years difference in the respective franchises development. And, though only time will tell, I think they gave up a lot for Forsberg.
Mike: The Preds might win the Cup this year. And if they do then their fans will doubtless be very happy….until the draft this year when they have to watch the first round from the sidelines, and then when Forsberg either retires or signs somewhere else that has more cap room.
Oh and then they’ll be really bummed out when the team leaves because 14 people go to the games. $140 for a ticket is pretty steep, but when you have to fly to Kansas City from Nashville to go to the game it’s REALLY expensive.
But I’ll agree with you that David Poile is a good GM.
But he really made a big bet on Forsberg. And Forsberg is not without baggage or risk.
But it’s arguable that they didn’t do a better job of drafting in their first five years than we have. Their first five first rounders were: Legwand, Brian Finley, Hartnell, Hamhuis, and Upshall. Hit or miss. And their average 1st round draft position was 6.4 over those first 5 years.
I really don’t see them being all that far ahead of us, even though they’ve been around a few more years. They certainly haven’t had more playoff success than we have. I guess I don’t see what you’re basing your opinion on.
That’s where it really just looks like whining.
Mike,
I have and will continue to defend your right to state your opinions, but at this point I have to wonder why you are here?
One would think this type of discussion would be among Wild fans, something you don’t seem to be. According to you the team sucks, the players suck, the management sucks etc. . . Now the Wild are going to get pounded in Calgaray tonight. It certainly could happen, Calgary is among the toughest places to win in the NHL, but more important, in my view, than the outcome is how they play. And losing tonight will not end their season.
But really, why do you bother? You obviously don’t like the team or the management, think they suck and will lose, why are you wasting your time here?
Actually about half of Nashville’s roster has been developed from within. The bulk of their better players have come from other teams either via trades or free agency.
Hmm…Backstrom, Carney, Demitra, Foster, Hall, Johnsson, Nummelin, Moore, parrish, Radivojevic, Rolston, Skoula, Smith, White…all from trades or FA I think.
yeah…Doug has just sat around with his finger up his butt for six years.
Yeah, I’m not even sure what the point is about having half of NSH’s roster being from trades and FA. Is that supposed to be a good thing or a bad thing?
I don’t think you can compare the Wild to a team like Detroit Mike. This team is in its infancy compared to Detroit.
Thats not to say that if they play well, they can’t win. I’m with everyone else, share your opinion, that is fine.
But I think we could all do w/o cheap shots like “after they get pounded in Calgary.”
They may not win tonight, but if they bring it tonight for 60 full minutes I’ll be happy. That is what Wild fans watch for. And I think tonight we will get it. I predict an overtime win.
I think it is pretty sweet that we have passionate and knowledgeable fans here. I think the point of these comments are to ask questions and bring up ideas. I certainly don’t see the GM reading these and going with our ideas instead of his own. I just think its awesome that we can come together and share thoughts good and bad about our teams development and direction.
Go Wild!
I’m tired of this argument. We now have the team we have and I’m ready to move on.
What does this Wild team have to do to win at Calgary? The Flames have lost something like 6 games at home all season. Is our only hope that they self-destruct? What do we think the mood and energy level will be tonight?
I think it will be very telling what kind of intensity the Wild bring tonight. They should be well rested, relaxed now that the trade deadline has passed (although I don’t think any thought they were likely to be traded), and they know this is a big game. I expect a strong performance, they will need good games from the D and Backstrom to win.
btw, anyone know if this game is going to be on FSNHD tonight? This would be a great game to watch in Hi-Def.
I think they need to stop Iginla. he has been a wild killer his whole career. I know he missed one of the games the wild beat Calgary earlier this season. They need to shut him down.
Also, we play in Edmonton tomorrow night and like all teams we stink on the second night of back-to-backs.
This is a big game. I’d much rather see them come out tonight flying and hitting, even if they are tired and flat tomorrow in Edmonton due to it.
But let’s focus on tonight.
Brett Hull said a mouthful. Some very true words at the end of this story. 3rd or so item on page.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/mccarthy/2007-02-28-mccarthy-matta-gum_x.htm
I have to imagine that Edmonton is a bit of a mess in the locker room. Smyth was the Oilers.
Edmonton was pretty flat last night. The only thing flying around were fists. Phoenix cruised and it was clear that despite an emotional Messier celebration and jacked up crowd, the Oilers feel they are done.
I agree with Nick, I’d rather see them go nuts tonight and come out flat tomorrow then lose 4-2 tonight and win in a shootout tomorrow.
As far as the Wild tonight, I think they’re poised for a road win in Calgary. Plenty of motivation, rest, and confidence to carry them.
Just trying to stir the pot a little. Honestly, I think they are a scrappy little club, but all of that credit goes to Lemaire. Any other coach and they’re down there with Phoenix and Columbus. I really despise Risebrough. He’s way too conservative, thinks he’s a genius. Cutting loose Brunette was just awful. The team could use Bruno right now. Risebrough sitting on his fanny after the lockout during the 1st post-lockout free agency period smacked of “CHEAP”. Their drafting has been suspect other than Gaborik. O’Sullivan is gone. Bouchard is extremely overrated. The team historically has been soft, especially on the road, and the defense is extremely suspect. They have trouble scoring goals. When they’re up against teams like Detroit and Anaheim the talent differential is glaring. That’s a front office issue to me. I’m tired of hearing that the fans need to be patient, give it another few years…blah, blah, blah. Same old song and dance.
Mike,
Give us two or three moves the Wild should try to make this summer that would change your mind.
Mike: now if you’d just said it like that from the start no one would have gotten their undies in a wad…
I think it’s safe to say that everyone here wants to see the Cup in St. Paul in someone other than Hedican’s hands.
Do I still believe in Doug’s plan? Yes. The pot of gold (consistently being a Cup favorite instead of a one-hit wonder) is sufficient to me.
Is my reserve of patience less than it was a year ago? Absolutely.
But I think the team is progressing, and they’re better and more entertaining than a year ago by far.
My point of view on why DR didn’t make any moves after the lockout is this: It had been 18 months since any of those guys played hockey at the NHL level. That kind of inactivity can cause certain guys to not be the player they once were. (Look at Federov). I think that kind of wait and see approach was good at that time to avoid picking up a suckwad.
Wow
I just got here, however after reading all of the posts my laptop screen got steamed up. Just a few comments.
Dave - As to why Jacques wasn’t in on the decision… Russo wrote a column about Risebrough and trade possiblities (2/23 “Mum is the word on trade possibilities”) and quoted DR “I can tell you not many people know what Doug Risebrough is doing because people in my own organization don’t know what I’m doing”. Doug’s his own guy and I think Jacques trusts him from being his teammate. But if you think about the type of guy Jacques is, do think he’d really want to do all the homework on these guys anyways?
Second - even though Mike’s got a major beef and Reid seems to be somewhat in the same boat, let them post whatever they want. We’re all here for one reason - we love the Wild. I’m not going to doubt anyone’s desire to win a Cup for the Wild. We all need to understand that we all have different ideas on how it’s going to happen.
Third - Even though 95% of these comments have been about personnel, there’s all sorts of other things that go into winning a Cup. I think Walzy’s dead on when he says “More important than bringing in some guy making $5 million at the trade deadline is to make sure you’re pulling on the rope together,”. Chemistry is so underrated in this league. Knowing who and how each other play on your team is so important around playoff time and it’s one of the more enjoyable things to watch in a hockey game. Coaching and scouting and systems haven’t been talked about at all. Don’t forget that Cup’s are won and lost by stinkin little bounces of the puck.
There are about 10 or 11 teams that have a chance to win a cup right now (include the Wild) and they’re going all out to win. If the Wild show up and skate hard for every game from here on out, they’ve got just as good a chance. That’s all I’m going to ask for. And if that makes me a Cub’s fan in Red and Green, I’m alright with that. I’d rather be that and hang with a bunch of my own than be a Florida (Marlin / Lightning) fan.
Just off the top of my head:
#1) Sign a power forward similar to Ryan Smyth. I don’t know everybody who’s available, but Smyth is for sure. OR Sign a playmaking center like Pavel Datsyuk. Datsyuk will be a free agent. Bouchard & Todd White don’t cut it.
#2) Sign a top blue-liner with a scoring touch. Sheldon Souray comes to mind.
How about that? Unfortunately we know nothing of that sort will happen.
BTW DO any of you people have jobs?!
…Yeah, me either.
I understand the frustration with PMB’s development although I’d give another year. Despite the last two or three games, I still think Todd White is overrated. We obviously have a better chance of landing a Smyth this summer as an FA.
Souray would add alot. I could see Jason Blake fitting in well. Is Saku Koivu going to be an FA this summer?
Chris Drury, Scott Gomez.
I’d love to see either on the Wild.
Both will get top dollar (Drury possibly less with this concussion).
Neither will likely end up in St. Paul.
Meanwhile, back on earth, bring on the Flames! (The ones from Calgary.)
smuggla: yes, we definitely want to promote a suckwad-free environment.
I think your point about post-lock out wariness is a great one.
Drafting Koivu was “suspect” Mike? Pouliot suspect? Burns suspect? Irmen suspect? How can you classify such a young orginizations drafting as suspect? Patrick O’Sullivan was a risk many many teams passed on, and if you know his background story you’d understand why. But the Wild gave him the chance he deserved, and in the business that is the NHL, they used an asset to pick up a veteran player to improve. Drafting players is taking a risk on that players development. There are no guarantees it will work in both parties favor. Most players in the first and second rounds are locks to develop and play in the league. After that it’s good scouting, hard work on the players part, and lots of luck.
Holy crap I do some work for a few hours and wham everybody is a GM. This is really great. Mike I disagree with you for the most part but still like to hear your point of view. I think we all are Wild fans but some are little less patient than others. All I really care about is that they give 100% and at least have a CHANCE to win the cup every year. The first 5 years we should of had no expectations. From here on out we should expect them to be very competative in the playoffs. Mike you bring up Bruno a few times he is a solid player. I have heard DR say that he had made a mistake with him. He said he wasn’t sure how affective he was going to be in the more wide open NHL after the rules changes, becuase of his lack of speed. Don’t get me wrong I would still like to have him around.But at least DR was honest about. He is never going to make everyone happy, but I would let him run my team anytime.
So Mike… guys like Mark Parish and Kim Johnsson.
Yah, we NEED to get this win at Calgary tonight. If we do lose, I for one expect a full win at Edmonton tomorrow.
I’d like to see at least a tie tonight. If they come out fast and play well in front of Niki, get a little physical, and forecheck well, I don’t see how we can’t win, or at least tie.
Mike: Right now, I could care less about DR. The trade deadline is over. This is the team we have. So, show some support or…
If you want success in the playoffs, Datsyuk should be way off the radar.
Russo has a new post!
There’s your problem Bill…
you’re employed.
I agree with Lapper’s theory about young NHL prospects and how it’s impossible to know if they’ll be a great player or not. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I remember in the Wild’s innagural season they had a Russian and I believe his name is Maxum Sushinski. He and Gabby were considered to have the same level of potential. Maxum was a great player except he got homesick and he quit the team and moved back to Russia. I think I remember seeing playing on team Russia in last year’s Olympic games and he looked like a decent talent that would’ve looked good on the Wild. Just goes to show weird things happen with some of the best guys… The other funny part of the story was JR really liked him. JR would draw up plays designed to get him the puck and then he’d look at Maxium and say “does this make sense?” and Maxium would just sit there with a blank stare (He didn’t speak a lick of English) but JR said he sure could skate… Does anyone else remember that guy?
I do remember Mr. Sushinski. He was extremely homesick and I think he may have had a young family back in Russia.
I like the Wild as it is. It ain’t broken, don’t fix it. I really have nothing to fault the ownership group or Reisborough. I seriously doubt Bertuzzi, Tkachuk, Guerin, or others would have fit in with Jacques’s system. You can’t just add names and expect it to mix. Look at the Rangers and the Avalanche in recent years. Even the great Red Wings team had those problems.
I think Nick hit the nail in the head in everything what he is talking about.
Just enjoy this team.
If I felt something stunk with this franchise, I would let you know about it.
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