Kings to hire Terry Murray; Wild musings on Bouchard, Gaborik, Veilleux; Wild schedule release plans
Posted on July 15th, 2008 – 11:02 AMBy Michael Russo
According to an NHL source, Flyers assistant coach Terry Murray will be named coach of the LA Kings this week.
Murray, who coached the Flyers to the 1997 Cup Finals, hasn’t been a head coach since he was fired by the Florida Panthers in December 2000.
Murray, the brother of Ottawa GM Bryan Murray, is technically superb, a good teacher and tremendous with the media, which is all that matters, eh?
Wild signed minor-leaguers Danny Irmen, Peter Olvecky, Corey Locke, Bryan Lundbohm and John Scott to one-year deals Tuesday. The Wild signed minor-league defenseman Brandon Rogers to a multi-year deal. Clayton Stoner is the only unsigned minor-league restricted free agent left, but it’s close.
Wild UFA Joel Ward has signed with Nashville.
Things are quiet, and I’m readying for vacation. But I figured I’d check in.
Wild is busy working on its restricted free agents and getting ready to make Marian Gaborik a long-term extension offer, probably in the neighborhood of $8.5 million per season.
Another big thing to pay attention to is Pierre-Marc Bouchard. I’m not convinced the Wild wants to commit to him long-term at a price that would be equivalent to taking someone’s unrestricted free-agent status (he’s restricted this summer, but one summer from unrestricted free agency).
In other words, as the below quote from Doug Risebrough on June 13 seems to forecast, there’s no doubt the Wild has offered Bouchard a long-term deal. But if the offer isn’t substantial, I see Bouchard turning it down, the two working out a one-year deal before the July 28 arbitration date and then the Wild looking to continue trying to trade Bouchard for the rest of the summer and/or after Jan. 1.
(Here’s Risebrough’s quote from last month: “I’m interested in signing him long-term, but what I’m interested in doing and what he’s interested in doing might not be the same, and my number long-term and his number long-term might not be the same.”)
And you can guarantee it isn’t.
This all comes down to what I was writing way back around midseason. There’s only so many pieces of the pie, and the Wild committed long-term dollars to Brent Burns, Mikko Koivu and Nick Schultz.
But Bouchard continued to be ignored, making one wonder if the Wild was concerned about throwing big dollars at a player it feels is undersized and purely offensive. Of course, he’s one of the best playmakers on the team and keeps scoring points despite playing less than 17 minutes a night. So obviously there will be a difference of opinion in value, which means Bouchard’s long-term future in Minnesota is cloudy.
Some other stuff:
As you read today, Stephane Veilleux is negotiating his own contract with the Wild.
Veilleux feels confident he knows his market value and will be able to work out a fair long-term deal that’ll keep him here for many years. Like Bouchard, he’s one year from unrestricted free agency.
I’ve talked to a few agents in the last couple of days who feel Veilleux’s about to make the mistake of a lifetime and the NHLPA is undoubtedly concerned and trying to keep tabs on Veilleux’s negotiations.
But Veilleux says he’s confident and mature enough to do this on his own.
As for Gaborik, I don’t suspect things will heat up until later this month, and into August. The numbers are obvious though. A few weeks ago, I wrote what the highest paid players in the league make (look for that blog post).
Gaborik will be right there if he wants to be. The Wild plans to offer him in the $8 million range I believe, and then it’ll be up to Gaborik whether he wants to commit here long-term. If he doesn’t, look out because things will get really interesting here.
Not much else going on.
Wednesday, the Wild will likely announce what it’s home opener is and a few other interesting dates on its schedule.
On Thursday, the NHL and the Wild will release the full schedule, and the Wild will also probably announce its seven- or eight-game exhibition schedule.
402 Responses to "Kings to hire Terry Murray; Wild musings on Bouchard, Gaborik, Veilleux; Wild schedule release plans"
Doubtless the agents would say that. If we said “We’ll write our own stories about the Wild.” wouldn’t Russo say “I’m not so sure that’s a good idea.”?
What it says to me is that SRV isn’t about the money. He wants to play hockey and he wants financial stability. He doesn’t want someone stepping between him and his employer trying to get a piece of the pie. He doesn’t want to play games (except for hockey) he wants to sign a deal and hit the ice.
Maybe he is making a mistake. Somehow I don’t see the organization trying to take advantage of him.
Wow, possibility of losing PMB too? If that’s the case, I hope DR has a plan to bring in some more offensive scoring as part of the trade plan involving PMB.
Well, signing Gabby to a long-term contract is critical. Hope that is accomplished. Would hate to see PMB go though. He can move the puck and he comes out of the corner with it more often than you would imagine for a player his size because of his excellent stick. But I guess I do understand the concerns about him–just not sure I share them. Hard to find players as skilled with the puck but agree he is not the best defensively.
+1 Goody.
I still can’t believe they are will to sing MG for that kind of money. A man with no heart. I’ll take 2 good $4M guys over him any day.
What’s the deal with PMB? They knew when they drafted him how big he was. Everything they looked for he delivered. Didn’t the Wings just win the Cup with players like him.
And how many years has Reisborough been a GM, and he still apologizes for his learning curve. It looks like DR hit his peak a few years ago and the team is now on the way downhill, just like he did in Calgary. He certainly isn’t one to stockpile young talent and draft choices.
What’s the worst deal he has ever made?
They wouldn’t get to the point where PMB just walks. Absolutely we’d get a return on him. Whether or not we, the fans, think it’s an equal return remains to be seen…
What’s the worst deal he has ever made?
you may remember this old chestnut:
I think DR was expecting PMB to ‘grow’ in more ways than one… 
Thanks for the snack Russo!
continued from last thread - I think the pmb scenario is one of DR’s largest and, as a usual kool-aid drinker and DR apologist, this is one thing I think is just too shady. The guy did everything you asked of him, and you still don’t want to reward him. Walz asks for an indefinite leave of absence and he is granted it. I just don’t like the message DR is sending to PMB and the rest of the team with this.
SRV - go get em tiger. I really enjoyed his play last year.
Gabby - so it sounds that we’ll give him his “market value” - but the decision is his - does he want to commit here long term? That will be interesting. I’m not convinced he does…
hmmm…our pp will be terrible with no Rolston or PMB. *sigh*
I hope DR is not over obsessing about Wild cap space four or more years out, the annual increases in the cap to date and the potential of a new CBA also have to be considered. That said, I expect the PMB trade rumors to heat up - the Devils would be well advised to consider Rolston’s opposite wing from the last three years.
It sounds like to me the Wild want to give PMB money similar to Koivu, Schultz, and Burns. PMB is going to need a little more than $3.5 million to stay with the Wild. If it was done last year, I say it would have been fine but DR wanted to see if PMB would step it up.
$18 million for PMB for 4 years. DR is starting to wear thin on me. I can understand Rolston and Demitra but I can’t understand losing PMB or Gaborik.
I think SRV will be fine. give him $3 million for 3 years — Voros and Fedoruk money. He deserves it.
We have MAB and Zidlicky to take Rolston’s PP spot. Hopefully we will have less shorthanded goals also.
PMB is very much needed on the PP. He is one of the few players that can carry the puck into the zone.
sunshine I share your sentiments.
Good thing I held out putting that “BOUCHARD 96″ on the back of my jersey.
Looks like it might have to be “BURNS 8″
Gabby doesn’t fit with jock’s offensive style of forwards playing keep-away in the corners and letting the defensemen shoot. Given the choice, I would trade jock. He has great stories of the old days but is not in sync with the new NHL…and I’m not so sure his boss is either.
Wow, possibility of losing PMB too?
This is a surprise?
I just don’t like the message DR is sending to PMB and the rest of the team with this.
I tend to agree but what we don’t know is how much PMB is looking for. As sunshine pointed out (and far be it for me to make excuses for DR), it would be hard to have PMB and a cap hit significantly higher than Mikko (3.3), Burns (3.6) or Schultz (3.5).
Whether or not we, the fans, think it’s an equal return remains to be seen…
Arrrrgggggh. There goes my ulcer!!!
PMB gets higher because it is a different year and the market is higher because the cap is higher. I would be happy with $18M for 4 years but doesn’t sound like that will happen. I suspect they are offering 3-3.5M
If PMB is looking for 5 mil per, AMF.
If PMB looks at the Wild and his importance in the scheme of things, and is asking for more dough than Koivu, AMF.
It goes back to what I posted a few weeks back. He will not sign a multi-year deal since he becomes very tradeable. He’s going to go to arbitration or settle on a one-year deal.
And then choose his team.
If you thought PMBs trade value was low during the OJ saga, imagine DR trying to deal him with UFA status on the horizon…
This is a surprise?
Hahaha, I was thinkin’ the same thing!
Have ya heard about the Lindbergh baby???
We are going to need PMB. We don’t have anyone in our system with his skill sets. Yes he doesn’t shoot much and is not physical. When we talk about physical games, aren’t we really just talking about the Flames, Canucks, and the Ducks. He’s done okay against them. He’s no Flames, Canucks, or Ducks killer by any stretch. However, no one else has abilities.
Pouliot still has to prove himself and he will play center. Gillies is not going to be a scorer or a playmaker. Koivu and Sheppard will play center.
Until we have someone to replace him, we can’t let him go.
Have ya heard about the Lindbergh baby???
LMAO
Who is this Lindbergh character everyone keeps bringing up and what happened to the baby???
I really have had a hard time coming to a POV on PMB that I could live with, but now I’m thinking… with the youth we have coming up, maybe it is worth a little extra to have a playmaker type of guy like that to run alongside these kids. Under those circumstances I can see 4/yr without completely choking on my cheerios. But no more than that.
- For me $4 million per for PMB is definately in range of the deals the other “core” players signed last year. As you get closer to $5 million, there would have to be some significant term added on to make the deal still somewhat equitable.
- Since DR was willing to sign Morrison, I don’t think we can conclude Pouliot is a lock to play C.
uhh you can make ZERO claims about Gillies at this point.
Well, right now, PMB will get more than Koivu and all. The FA season saw to the shift.
Six months to a year makes a huge difference. If DR would have waited on Burns’ contract, he would paying Burns $4-$4.5 million a year instead of $3.5 million. Schultz would be getting at least $4 million instead of $3.5 million.
PMB is reaping the benefits of the FA spending frenzy. He might not be feeling as loyal as he did 3 months ago either.
No, it’s not a total surprise greenstar, but with the lack of offense this team has at the moment you would think/hope that signing PMB and not trading him would be the priority.
you would think/hope that signing PMB and not trading him would be the priority.
that assumes you couldn’t replace his offense in the trade.
woooooo i like gillies!!
I will be so sad if PMB leaves. Come on DR get something done here.
Pouliot is a lock as of the moment since we didn’t sign Morrison.
ATX, just get in touch with KiPA. He’ll be able to counsel you through PLS (Player loss syndrome). I think we all know how hard he took the loss of Hossa.
Just saying a PMB trade could move Pouliot back to wing.
that assumes you couldn’t replace his offense in the trade.
my inquiry - who are you going to get with a similar output and age for a better price?
choking on my cheerios.
Frickin’ hilarious! I’m usin’ that one, k?
COMC!
sorry - that shouldn’t have sounded accusatory - just wondering if there are any possible names out there - other than osullivan.
” He’ll be able to counsel you through PLS (Player loss syndrome).”
lol. I will be sure to do that.
[JL]He has great stories of the old days but is not in sync with the new NHL…and I’m not so sure his boss is either.
Without agreeing with that description as JL’s “style of play,” I would counter that JL invented the “new NHL.”
As for SRV, there’s so much information available to him that it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to help determine his market value. And, without an agent, he has a 4% margin for error. 
I just can’t see why they don’t want to retain the best passer on the team. The kid is small, but he can play damnit. Get a deal done now.
Have ya heard about the Lindbergh baby???
LMAO
Would have to give credit to a local radio host for that one…
Cool, bfw*… have at it.
No one has mentioned it but WTF is up with the full schedule not being released until Thursday? Or can we safely assume it will get leaked tomorrow? I was all set to take half a day off and start planning my trip to St. Paul!
Gabby is not worth 8 million! It would be interesting to see what you could get in a trade. I would hate to see them committ to a long term deal with Gaborik.
“Until we have someone to replace him, we can’t let him go.”
-agreed
sign PMB…Trade Gaborik. That is the recipe for success. Gabby’s value is high now and will only go down if he has his annual groin issue.
PMP = Our Denis Savard.
Couple of things.
1) Replacement of Rolston on PP with MAB and Zilicky… we should see fewer goals against, just as many if not more big shots from the point and (here’s a biggy) fewer pucks cleared from the zone. I can count on one hand the number of times Rolston held a clearing attempt in the offensive zone. MAB and Zidlicky should be a HUGE improvement in that regard.
I’ll break point 2 into a seperate post…
First of all, I LIKE PMB.
But I can’t believe people think PMB is worth over 3.5 Million a year. You folks have REALLY over inflated his value to the team.
PMB is a nice playmaker for the Wild, but his is barely worth the money he is making now, I can’t fathom why people want to shovel a 1-2 million dollar raise his way.
Save the money and trade PMB and MG now. Because a year from now they both will be gone anyways. At least now we will get a better return, versus next year when people know we are desperate.
I can’t fathom why people want to shovel a 1-2 million dollar raise his way.
You must have missed July 1
Save the money and trade PMB and MG now. Because a year from now they both will be gone anyways.
Square saving money, signing extensions and gone next year anyway.
2) I think we all agree that DR hasn’t been doing so well in locking up RFA’s and UFA’s prior to when he absolutely needs to. We all agree (DR too) he has got to do something with Gaborik NOW. Looking at who else is up after next season (like Gaborik) I see some others he should be working on once Gaborik, PMB and SRV are complete.
Pouliot - RFA - Maybe now is the time to extend him. What if he has a breakout season? Couldn’t he be signed for super cheap right now? Maybe 1-2 yrs?
Skoula - UFA - Well, maybe he doesn’t need to do anything but try to trade him for a warm (or cold) body.
MAB - While he’s not played a game with the Wild, if he’s looking like a keeper say 1/3 of the way through the season, work hard to sign him.
Foster - Really tough to say until he returns.
Backstrom - I’m mixed on this one. Yes, he can be stellar but he also has some slumps. It’s hard for me to say he needs to come back but it’d be nice.
Harding - A must sign IMO. Hopefully he’ll develop into a full time #1 goalie but until then we need him locked in for backup.
What if an in season extension for MAB hurts Skoula’s feelings 
ROCHESTER, MN -
At a press conference earlier today, Dr. Rosenrosen announced plans for a new facility here at the Mayo Clinic. The facility, Healthful Unattaching from Good Goalscorers Yearning (HUGGY) will focus on treating PLS - Player Loss Syndrome. It will be adjacent to the other 3 world-renowned facilities the Groin Triage and Rehabilitation Center for Make Benefit Slovakian Hockey Player (GTRCMBSHP), the Wes Walz Institute For Instilling Testicular Fortitude (WWIFITF) and the Matt Cooke School for Testicular Disintegration During Confrontations (MCSTDDC). HUGGY’s focus will be for fans to “let go” of departed players from their favourite franchise and ease in the “letting go” of players that may eventually leave. Leading the charge against PLS for the facility is Dr. Rummack. When asked if he surely thought he could seriously treat every fan suffering from PLS, Dr. Rummack said “I am serious… and don’t call me Shirley.” HUGGY is expected to open in early to mid-October.
BNAG: that was pure gold.
BNAG,
LMAO - See Russo, you’d be wrong, we can write our own Wild related stories!
Bnag - hilarious.
I was a believer up until PLS.
Isn’t there a keep for forever list of posts? that should be added.
See Russo, you’d be wrong, we can write our own Wild related stories!
So, we’ll just each take a day to cover for the Don while he recovers from his surgery?
jimlove: it has been done.
Goody, I totally agree on the need to sign our goalies this summer. I also am not fully sure on Backstrom but Harding is a must. Haven’t chimed in for a long while but THANK YOU DR for getting rid of Shawn Belle (aka Baby Skoula)! I won’t miss him.
BNAG - That is too funny. Glad NiNY is adding it to the list.
Nick - Does that earn me a complementary cocktail at the Russoville Pub?
If so, I’ll take a tall Captain and Diet Coke.
If not, I’ll take a tall Captain and Diet Coke.
All I can say to anyone that actually wants to trade away BOTH Marian Gaborik and Pierre-Marc Bouchard is…wow. Just wow. That would be great if we were trying our hardest to bake a fail cake. Really, we want to ditch both our leading scorer and our leading assit man? Really?
BNAG: fair enough. ‘Ere ya go.
*slides drink down the bar*
That would be great if we were trying our hardest to bake a fail cake.
LOL…great line.
We’d better sign PMB long term, otherwise we’re going to put ATXwf on suicide watch.
Ha ha, “fail cake”. Is it… is it low carb??
“Win the Tavares sweepstakes” sounds much better than “bake a fail cake” but still, good one!
What exactly do you put in that cake anyway?
What exactly do you put in that cake anyway?
lemons, limes, Alanis Morissette…you know, bitter things.
that assumes you couldn’t replace his offense in the trade.
NINY - If you had read my first post you would know that I already said that.
I don’t understand the comment that PMB is NOT worth 3.5 million.
If you believe that you are drinking the DR Kool-Aid. In this market he is most certainly worth that. He is part of the core of this young team. If we could lock him up for 4-5 yrs at 3.5 we’d jump at it. My guess is he is asking for 5 or more.
THAT is the problem, and DR (I think) is worried that the system is broken and that in a few years these contracts will all look bloated…so he’s trying to sign “bargain” contracts.
Only problem is, the rest of the league is carrying on in the current system while we are busy “being thrifty”
Trade Gabby and sign PMB.
Trade Gabby and sign PMB????
I’m also quite sure DR has offered more than 3.5 but PMB is probably commanding what he would get in the UFA market as a RFA, most likely 5+.
But question is, do you want to offer 5+ mil to a small winger who can be easily push around, long term?
“What exactly do you put in that cake anyway?”
LOL,that is a great link!!
I would like to see this master list of quotes from the blog at some point… sounds fun!
Also, I am with Lucky on this… Trading PMB AND Gabby would be stupid. Unless there is no other choice in the matter.
” PMB is probably commanding what he would get in the UFA market as a RFA, most likely 5+.”
I find that hard to believe. I love PMB more than anyone else here I think, but I am not sure 5+ is a fair price for him.
PMB has to be worth at least $4 million. He doesn’t have enough goals to warrant $5 million. Even Malone was at $4.3 million cap hit — of course that was over 7 years.
BNAG: Dude, I was chockin’ on my cherrios! That was great.
The cake is a lie.
Considering what happened with Rolston where it wasn’t the money but the term, I would expect the hold up with PMB is the term or length of the contract.
Hawks released their preseason schedule and will play the Wild twice.
@ Chicago on Friday, 9/26/08.
@ Minnesota on Tuesday, 9/30/08
PMB is worth at least $4M because the market goes up each year. Some benefit in long term contracts is each year they look better and cheaper–if the guy is still a contributor. But, that is a big if.
Regarding SRV: I am a do-it-yourself kind of guy, but when it comes to multi-million dollar deals, I sure hope he at least has a good attorney to dot the i’s and cross the t’s. Agents may not be the apple of everyone’s eye, but they are sure making the players in all sports a heckuva lot more money than the players would make on their own. Here is hoping he doesn’t fall prey to Culpepper syndrome. It is woefully naive to think as someone said earlier that SRV can trust the Wild to do the right thing.
Well the NHLPA is offering SRV a lawyer to work with.
Didn’t M. Satan negotiate his own contract? As I recall, it was a huge one too. He seem to be doing okay. I don’t know if this last one he did it himself or had an agent.
I don’t see the value long term in Gabby. He is unable to play defense and his goal scoring ability is not top 20 in the league. Don’t even start on the shoot out. Why is it that MN seem to love this guy?
I would sign PMB and trade Gabby. Gabby doesn’t put the effort in that the elite of the league do. Yes, Gabby can score, but he has to be spoonfed to do it or play constant suckhole. He doesn’t show the grit of a leader to build a team around. PMB, he is a great setup man and one of few that can actually stick handle. Gabby, ask him to stick handle — he’ll lose control quite quickly. Even Gabby’s speed doesn’t help — D play back on him negating his speed and he’s too greedy to use his speed to push the D back and then dish to an open trailer. When Gabby takes off with the puck, his linemates sit back and watch because they know he won’t feed them. Instead, he’ll take that great screen shot between the D’s legs, which hardly ever results in a goal.
If PMB signs his 1-yr deal at arb, Dougie Ballgame has to deal him before the season starts. Can’t let ANOTHER UFA play out his contract and walk without getting something in return. Same deal holds true for Gabby. OK, follow me here: Gabby and PMB are not signed long term prior to camp opening up, therefore, Ballgame has little to no choice but to deal them both. What do you suppose this season looks like without Gabby, Huggy, Demo and PMB on the roster, assuming Ballgame is sharp enough to realize he has to deal them and not under the belief that the two will “simply want to play in Minnesota because we have a nice arena, criminally loyal fans and a nice, young nucleus of players”.
Chade: Gabby had 42 goals and 41 assists last year. Hardly the numbers of a guy whom doesn’t pass. As far as being a leader, I think most of us in Russoville would agree that JL has seen his share of hockey players, hockey teams, hockey games. He thought enough of Gabby being a leader that he gave him the “C”. If JL think he is a good enough leader, I think the rest of us should as well. JL is around him every day during the season; seeing what he does in the locker room, what he does in practice, what he does on the road. I doubt many if any here in Russoville can utter the same.
On PMB: I am more a PMB fan than a Wild fan. If DR can’t find a way to get it done with a guy like that, I give up. DR is like us 50 something guys who are shopping for a new Corvette. “I’m not paying 50 large for the same model car I could have bought 20 years ago for 10K! I’ll outsmart you! I am going to buy an Accord and pretend its a Corvette!” Right now, I am pretty sure that DR is destined to become a playoff contender, but not a SCP contender. As long as the Wild marketing machine can manage the business side in spite of average performance, not much will change. However, look at how many empty seats there were at the Joe even well into the playoffs this year. That continuous sellout streak looks to be in jeopardy best I can tell.
If he does sign him to a 1 year, couldn’t he then sign another, longer contract sometime during the season?
his goal scoring ability is not top 20 in the league
Um. 41 goals put him at 7th in the league.
Not signing Gabby would be a big mistake. The guy is a game breaker. No, he is not perfect but he can certainly turn a game around. With a good center and no missed groiniac games he can score 50+ goals. There aren’t many guys you can find who can do that. If we had to trade Gabby, we would not get full value in return.
Goody: Yes. However, DR was willing to trade PMB earlier for a #1 center. I can see DR trading him if a good deal comes up before the trade deadline. Plus, DR can’t start negotiating with PMB until after January 1. 2009 for a longer term deal. If no deal is in place, I say PMB is gone for draft picks or prospects.
I would venture that they finally gave Gabby the C to see what he would do with it and truth is, not much. How many years did it take? I am a Gabby fan, but get real. Jock gives him the freedom to float high waiting for the long breakout pass from deep D’men. He gets more breakaways than the rest of the team combined and well he should. But if he had anywhere near Nummy’s or Koivu’s hands, he would have had another 10+ goals last year
I should add that PMB will be gone at the latest by the trade deadline.
If no deal is in place, I say PMB is gone for draft picks or prospects.
ugh, don’t utter such horrific words. I can’t think of a worse scenario.
PMB and Parrish to the Devils for Zach Parise and the draft pick we gave to them for the 1 spot move in the draft!
We have our hard working number 1 center and can move Benny back to wing.
I’m quite sure that this is NOT true…
“DR can’t start negotiating with PMB until after January 1. 2009 for a longer term deal.”
DR should be working on a long term deal right now.
Goody: He indeed would be able to sign a long-term contract, but don’t you have to start to think that with all the 1-yr- bullsh!t the Wild Brass has thrown at PMB that he would simply play the season out and get to choose where to play next year? He knows the Wild has been shopping him so why not go to place that you choose, rather than get traded to some hockey abyss like Toronto, FLA, Atl, etc.
BNAG - that was some classic funny stuff.
edgewild - it is true if PMB and the Wild end up with a 1 year deal for this season from arbitration.
trade ‘em all…the future is burns, schultz, koivu, harding, and shep w/ bruno to show them how to win…
pmb is going to ask for too much money, and while i think he is a very useful player i say trade him to a desperate team willing to give something up and overpay him (NYI, FLA, LA, etc). we can easily get a 1st or 2nd rounder and a depth player for him.
i agree that 2 4mil a year players with heart are worth much more to us then gabby…heck if pmb wasn’t so greedy i’d even let him be one of those two players…
veillieux is a joke, yeah he does actually have some heart, but not much talent to go with it…he’s a poor scorer, a poor hitter, and a terrible fighter…
We also cringe at PMB’s agent, Allan Walsh, who was Gabby’s old agent.
At least we are not going to be bamboozled into thinking they are close to a deal than BAM - UFA. We were conditioned going into these trade talks with PMB that it will be difficult.
Caution: Rant ahead
What is currently the biggest danger to the health of our franchise. Its not losing face offs, Jacque’s line wizardry, our scouting department, or losing Marian abd PMB the same year. …a lthough all are of concern. Its Doug Risebrough and nothing else.
Cheaper, more risk averse, and reactive appears to be the GM’s current career development “plan”.
Shrewd or Cheap: if SVR expects a fair shake in negotiating his contract he should look at DR’s generosity when Huggy took that salary hit after the lockout. Our genius GM could have upped the contract a bit to keep it fair (instead he took advantage of the cheap “deal”) and then expected a Minnesota/Wild “privilege to be here” signing discount.
Risk Averse or Strategic: Since DR
couldn’t bring himself to spend assets for a center we needed (for more than a year) he is forced to bring in Chris Simon so he can say he did something at the trade deadline. Subtraction by addition. The Ducks pound us into the ice physically and win the cup - so lets go get some(old) size. The Wings win the cup with a mobile defense so we look for shooter/skaters on the blue line. What is HIS strategy for success?
The Plan or Financially Painful Procrastination. I know, lets wait until this year’s free agency to see if the prices go down after last year’s feeding frenzy. Lets wait to pay our players till their end of contract so we don’t over-pay. Let’s not make sure we’re getting good coaching at Houston until the development well has run dry and our prospects are stalled. We have to hope we found the answer in Kevin Constantine. Instead of trading or releasing Foy last year, lets not use the roster spot develop younger players and see if we can sucker someone in a trade. Now we have one less player and no more Foy.
Build a team or react to circumstance:
Instead of finding a better way to utilize the playmaking talent of PMB lets wait for him to become too expensive or frustrated so we have to trade him. Tell Walz to take all the time he needs to decide on coming back but don’t have back up plan in case he doesn’t.
Instead of letting DR continue to squander the assets of our franchise while he takes a graduate course at the Brett Farve School of decision making -FIRE HIM and bring in someone who can put the pieces of the puzzle together.
End of Rant
veillieux is a joke, yeah he does actually have some heart, but not much talent to go with it…he’s a poor scorer, a poor hitter, and a terrible fighter…
I didn’t know killing penalties on a defensive team was overrated - thanks for enlightening me.
I agree with Chade. Demitra is the only one Gaborik passed to. With him gone I wonder who his new favorite team mate will be.
Seriously though,
I’ve asked this question a few times, but still don’t have an answer.
If SRV resigns (and it seems he will) and PMB is traded…
What are they going to do with the ping pong table!?!?!?!
“i agree that 2 4mil a year players with heart are worth much more to us then gabby…heck if pmb wasn’t so greedy i’d even let him be one of those two players…”
I’ll have some of what you are smoking. It seems like pretty potent stuff! If only you were in charge! wtf gives you the idea that PMB is greedy? No one knows what he is asking for.
“What are they going to do with the ping pong table!?!?!?!”
It will be a throw-in with a trade.
maybe they’d donate it to you, Austin, and PMB could even sign it for you.
If Gaborik plays with Demitra 80% of the time, you would expect him to pass to Demitra more times than with any other players.
Gaborik played with Walz for most of his time before Demitra and no one accused him of just passing it to Walz. Just as PMB passes it to Rolston more than with any other player.
Give me a break, people.
Maybe Pouliot will be SRV’s new French-Canadian ping pong opponent?
veillieux is a joke, yeah he does actually have some heart, but not much talent to go with it…he’s a poor scorer, a poor hitter, and a terrible fighter…
This is undeducated opinion.
—-
Would you disparage your plumber because he does a horse#h!t job of putting on your new roof???
Veilleux plays his role, is the first to come to the defense of a teammate, kills penalties, and is great in the room by all accounts.
i agree that 2 4mil a year players with heart are worth much more
Well, SRV sure as hell isn’t asking for $4M/yr. You’re contradicting yourself.
Trading PMB or Gaborik is only a good idea if you can get something of no lesser value in return.
To endorse trading one or both of those two for whatever you can get seems beyond foolish unless the only other possible outcome is losing them for nothing altogether as free agents next summer.
“maybe they’d donate it to you, Austin, and PMB could even sign it for you.”
I think my wife would be in heaven if that were to happen. She would love it… as would I.
see if the Don can make it happen.
The Don can make anything happen, if he wants. Heck, he could even negotiate SRV’s contract today, do his foot surgery himself, solve this PMB/Gabby problem so that everyone is satisfied, and correct all of DR’s mistakes.
By suppertime. if he wanted to.
You know who should go for more breakaway goals? PMB.
Instead of curling, drive to the net and do the sweet move he did on Mason on the 1-4 Preds players.
We interupt this riveting off-season speculation with the following movie clip, brought to you by Cheerios: (That’s for you, Ms.C.)
******
[into oscillating fan, Darth Vader voice]: Luke. I AM YOUR FAHHH THERRR LERR LERR LAHHH LAHHHA LAHH LOHHH LOHHH…
******
A giant, stuffed, purple panda with Pink Pimp Hat for the first one with that movie name!!!
Tommy Boy.
Say all you want about SRV, but he sticks his nose into the play - just the way an ‘energy’ guy is supposed to.
However, players of his caliber are all too easily interchangeable. So, if he really wants to be here, he will.
Again, too many factors in play for PMB to sign long term. Perhaps the fact that he wasn’t signed is why FLA didn’t do the OJ deal. Or maybe it was his size. Whatever the reason, PMB became aware of the club’s stance regarding his talent and spot on the roster.
DR will NEVER give PMB a long term number that PMB will agree to. That is why they are far apart.
DR will then give him the 1 yr deal and then swap him for a 3rd round pick.
Shrewd GM that he is…
Winner!!
Nicely done, jimlove.
Enjoy your new, giant friend.
(But not tooo much.) 
I just happened to refresh at just the right time. I was thinking about that movie the other day, and how funny it is, and how I haven’t seen it in years.
bfw* - Love it.
BEES! BEES! OH MY GOD, HUNDREDS OF THEM!!!!
“What are they going to do with the ping pong table!?!?!?!”
That will be traded for some poutine.
Nicely done, jimlove.
Enjoy your new, giant friend
At first glance, I thought that read: “Enjoy your new girlfriend”
Fat guy in a little coat…
Don’t give her the weightroom line.
“Which way to the weightroom?”
What did you DOOOooo???
“DR will then give him the 1 yr deal and then swap him for a 3rd round pick.”
That is the day I jump on the Dump the Dumper bandwagon.
Were you watching “Spank-tro-Vision”??
“DR will then give him the 1 yr deal and then swap him for a 3rd round pick.”
That is the day I jump on the Dump the Dumper bandwagon.
+1
It doesn hurt so much here…
or here….
but right,… here.
Done. I need to find a copy of that movie. I wonder if it exists in Canada.
Ward signed by Nashville?
It is not so much whether Gabby and PMB are traded, it would be: whether what we would be offered would make the team better?
Gabby is a little bit of a head case to me. His speed and scoring ability ought to make him better than his delivers.
My opinion is that he has not done much to improve his game. He has not been a dominant player in the clutch.
When they were trying to obtain OJ, my feeling was: what if the deal was enlarged to include Gabby? Who else could we get back with OJ?
If Gabby wants to be here, and is willing to do the things necessary to continue to elevate his game, then we will be glad to have him. Otherwise, we will just be frustrated fans.
PMB does seem to add to his skills. But, his size is a big detriment.
The combined playoff points for these two wingers says they both have a ways to go for the biggest contracts.
Even that inflation has hit the NHL, it is hard to pay PMB more than Burns, more than Koivu, more than Schultz.
Thanks for the signing update, Russo. Who is left? Olvecky? I heard he got a 1 year deal but haven’t seen anything about it.
The Rogers signing is VERY well deserved on his part. Glad they nabbed him for a few years, too.
DeepBreath
Yah, Gabby may have had 41 assists this past year, but prior to that he average around 27. Compare that to the leagues elite and I believe you will see that it is far below their stats. True leaders excel by making goals but also setting up their teammates. Ask Walz how many great passes he got from Gabby. I can’t count how many times he was open and Gabby took a bad shot instead.
ms. conduct, he took his QO awhile ago, but I think the Wild forgot to announce it. I added him above.
SRV rocks beyond belief! I hope we keep the guy. Talk about playing the game to it’s fullest! Wish you success on the business end of things too SRV.
Good deal. Thanks for the clarification.
Well. I’m feeling good. Just gotta nail Stoner and we’ve got a good returning core and a bit of fresh blood in Houston.
Here’s video of the prospects playing baseball:
http://wild.nhl.tv/team/launch.htm?type=fvod&id=19854&catid=103
Albers on crutches. That boy has Foster’s puck luck.
I’m a little bummed that Adrian Foster isn’t back, speaking of Fosters… I thought he earned a shot. Hopefully he’ll find a good place to land.
“Well. I’m feeling good. Just gotta nail Stoner”
hehehehe.
Hey Ms. C
What about Ward? I know he was a walk on for training camp a couple of years ago, worked his butt of, JL loved him, was one of the last guys cut… saw some time 2 years ago?… is he a loss going to nashville or was he more of a flash in the pan?
Jimlove. He was a feel good story, but not good enough for the NHL imho. I liked him, but his play wasn’t great.
I wouldn’t call him a loss - ever.
ms. conduct: I wish they would wear their numbers. Some I can pick out but others, I have no idea who they are.
Lots-o-catching up to do today…
HUGGY: that is great news!
$18 million for PMB for 4 years.
Whoa! $4.5MM per? For Bouchard? I know the cap went up and all, but your argument about Burns and Koivu doesn’t quite fit. Bouchard isn’t as good as either and the cap only went up about 12%. Multiply that by $3.3MM per and you get about $3.67MM per. That’s about what he’s “worth”. Fine, he’s got some leverage, so I’d be willing to go up a bit from there, but $4.5MM is too much, IMO. If that’s his bottom line, sign him to a 1-year deal and trade him.
I think SRV will be fine. give him $3 million for 3 years — Voros and Fedoruk money. He deserves it.
SRV rocks beyond belief! I hope we keep the guy. Talk about playing the game to it’s fullest! Wish you success on the business end of things too SRV.
Say all you want about SRV, but he sticks his nose into the play - just the way an ‘energy’ guy is supposed to.
However, players of his caliber are all too easily interchangeable. So, if he really wants to be here, he will.
Veilleux plays his role, is the first to come to the defense of a teammate, kills penalties, and is great in the room by all accounts.
veillieux is a joke, yeah he does actually have some heart, but not much talent to go with it…he’s a poor scorer, a poor hitter, and a terrible fighter…
I don’t really “get” SRV myself. He does hustle, but I wouldn’t consider him one of the elite checking forwards in the game by any stretch. Every team can use a guy like him, but they’re not that difficult to come by if you ask me. I’m not sure what his expectation of “long-term deal” is exactly, but that will be interesting to watch. He doesn’t exactly strike me as the smartest hockey player, so hopefully he’s a smarter businessman. I can understand his desire to not pay someone that much money for a single transaction. I think the big issue here is that he needs to not take any of the negotiations personal, which might be more difficult than he thinks.
Trading PMB AND Gabby would be stupid. Unless there is no other choice in the matter.
Depends on the trade
I would venture that they finally gave Gabby the C to see what he would do with it and truth is, not much.
It’s not meaningless, but I don’t think that C really means a whole lot on a JL team, which is why he passes it around like he does.
The Ducks pound us into the ice physically and win the cup - so lets go get some(old) size. The Wings win the cup with a mobile defense so we look for shooter/skaters on the blue line. What is HIS strategy for success?
Kinda seems that way, doesn’t it?
That is the day I jump on the Dump the Dumper bandwagon.
I think the correct title is “DUMP THE DUMPPER!!!!!”
Ah, toivo, a voice of reason…
I think that was a great breakdown on PMB’s worth.
As for your analysis on SRV, and to indulge in a bit of puck talk, who would you consider an elite checking forward? John Madden? Travis Moen? Just curious…
ATX I left off the “and then I’ll feel REALLY good!”
Losing Ward isn’t a loss for the Wild but it is for the Aeros a bit. He’s a good guy in the room. One of those funny, gregarious guys who keeps spirits up thru the grind of the season. Maybe Kassian’s our new funny guy. And he was on a serious hot streak by the end of the season. Had a career year under Constantine. But honestly, when I think about him coming back to play against us, I’m not really COMC about it. I’m more just jealous that Milwaukee’s getting both him AND Jonesy. Bastards.
Sunshine, I hardly recognize any of them either. Just the Aeros. And I still can’t tell Irmen and Hamilton apart. They’re both just so blandly handsome and blonde.
OK, folks. I get home from a hard day at work after clearing my schedule for tomorrow’s schedule release, and then…
RUSSO SAYS THE SCHEDULE WON’T BE RELEASED UNTIL THURSDAY???
OK, Michael, time to ‘fess up for all of us. Have to take you off ‘Baywatch’ and get this question answered!
What happened that the schedule release is late?
See?! It’s not just me!
elite checking forwards:
Sami Pahlsson (yeah, Moen and Neidermayer, too, but Pahlsson is the best of the three).
Madden and Pandolfo.
Fredrik Modin in Columbus is quite good.
PJ Axelson, Ryan Kessler, Steve Ott.
SRV… I’m probably being too harsh on him, but it seems to me his feet and hands are often a step ahead of his head. He can be effective, but he can also be boneheaded.
Of course it’s not just you, Ms.Conduct. Inquiring minds want to knoooooooow…
Grrrrrrrrr…
Satan signed a one year, $3.5M deal. No clue if he negotiated it himself, but it was reported he approached the Penguins, so maybe.
Austin: here’s the way to get over PLS. If PMB is traded, then it depends on what you get in return. If it’s a good return, then you feel depressed for just a little bit, then a friend beats you over the head (figuratively, maybe literally) with the fact that while PMB is good, he’s just not good enough and what you got is better (we’ll call this the Colby Armstrong Syndrome.)
If it’s a bad return, then you join the Dumpper bandwagon, load up a copy of the NHL video game of your choice, set it to the easiest levels, and roll through an 82-0 season, 16-0 postseason with an average victory of 23.4 to 1.2, with PMB’s numbers at roughly 113G and 226A.
If PMB signs as a UFA with anyone else, whether it’s long-term or say, a one-year deal with Colorado for barely more than what the Wild offered him, you immediately label him Pierre-Benedict Bouchard (Pierre-Judas Bouchard works as well). Then, you swear at and curse him for roughly three hours to someone else’s fan base.
The next step is crucial. You look at your team and realize you have an MVP, an MVP finalist, a goalie who could’ve won the Conn Smythe and a defenseman who should’ve been a finalist for the Norris and…
Err. Just go with the video game cure.
I’m leaving out the obvious, really good two-way players like half of Detroit, Mikko Koivu, Lecavalier, etc.
The next step is crucial. You look at your team and realize you have an MVP, an MVP finalist, a goalie who could’ve won the Conn Smythe and a defenseman who should’ve been a finalist for the Norris and…
Yeah, you had me too up until this part. We don’t need no stinkin’ Hart Trophies!
We don’t need no stinkin’ Hart Trophies!
It doesn’t work for everyone, for sure.
Good for Veilleux. I don’t see him getting screwed. I see it as a positive for him and the Wild. He is a solid role player who is used to the system and this move by him shows that he is committed to playing for the Wild, something you can’t say about a lot of players out there these days including our own guys. He can incorporate the money he saves from the commission into his contract and there won’t be any unreturned messages and stalled negotiating.
If it’s a bad return, then you join the Dumpper bandwagon, load up a copy of the NHL video game of your choice, set it to the easiest levels, and roll through an 82-0 season, 16-0 postseason with an average victory of 23.4 to 1.2, with PMB’s numbers at roughly 113G and 226A.
Hilarious.
That cure would work for me.
“The next step is crucial. You look at your team and realize you have an MVP, an MVP finalist, a goalie who could’ve won the Conn Smythe and a defenseman who should’ve been a finalist for the Norris and…”
Buuurn. Ouch.
way to talk through it, KiPA.
Turning Weakness Into Strength.
Buuurn. Ouch.
Wha? Was just sharing how my treatment went.
way to talk through it, KiPA.
Turning Weakness Into Strength
Just trying to help out.
KiPA…funny story…I’ve done that with 2K8, and partway through my second undefeated season, I BROKE the game. Freezes up all the time, but the 360 is fine. FYI: That season Gabby had something like 170 goals and 250 pts.
I do like the video game option though… I can’t wait for NHL 09′!
lemmi: how did you manage to break it? Opposition score a second goal in a game on you and you took revenge?
(That’s been known to happen to me.)
Gabby had something like 170 goals and 250 pts.
Passing disabled, eh?
Wild signed Bryan Lundbohm for the Aero’s, I am glad for him.
I do like the video game option
I’ve used that method many a time.
So this is completely off topic but does anyone recall last season when the new RBK jerseys were released. Didn’t Reebok say they would only do the home and away jerseys the first year but then they would add the 3rd jersey in next season(’08/’09). I emailed the Don and he said he doesn’t believe they are adding the 3rd jersey for this upcoming season. I was looking forward to it…
KiPA: I honestly have no clue….I’ve started new seasons and it will just randomly freeze up on me after a game, or while simming, etc…no, I had passing on….Burns had like 50-60 goals and 130 pts….Roli had like 70-80. It was just a high scoring affiar. Maybe it being broken means it’s time for a new game. I went to Rainbow Six: Vegas for a while, but it’s just not the same.
[i]mike says:
July 15th, 2008 at 11:18 am
I still can’t believe they are will to sing MG for that kind of money. A man with no heart. I’ll take 2 good $4M guys over him any day.
What’s the deal with PMB? They knew when they drafted him how big he was. Everything they looked for he delivered. Didn’t the Wings just win the Cup with players like him[/i]
who on the wings is just like Bouchard? they have nobody as mediocre offensively and as terrible defensively.
mike says:
July 15th, 2008 at 11:18 am
I still can’t believe they are will to sing MG for that kind of money. A man with no heart. I’ll take 2 good $4M guys over him any day.
What’s the deal with PMB? They knew when they drafted him how big he was. Everything they looked for he delivered. Didn’t the Wings just win the Cup with players like him
who on the wings is just like Bouchard? they have nobody as mediocre offensively and as terrible defensively.
Lemmi: bad disc?
Brian T. says:
July 15th, 2008 at 11:23 am
hmmm…our pp will be terrible with no Rolston or PMB. *sigh*
you’re wrong. the powerplay will be great with Zidlicky, Bergeron, Gaborik, Brunette and Koivu.
Problem is the 5 on 5 scoring will be way down and the 2 new d-men play awful defense.
Six Goalie System says:
July 15th, 2008 at 11:23 am
I hope DR is not over obsessing about Wild cap space four or more years out, the annual increases in the cap to date and the potential of a new CBA also have to be considered. That said, I expect the PMB trade rumors to heat up - the Devils would be well advised to consider Rolston’s opposite wing from the last three years.
trade him to the Devils, I want Langenbrunner here !!
sunshine says:
July 15th, 2008 at 11:24 am
It sounds like to me the Wild want to give PMB money similar to Koivu, Schultz, and Burns. PMB is going to need a little more than $3.5 million to stay with the Wild. If it was done last year, I say it would have been fine but DR wanted to see if PMB would step it up.
$18 million for PMB for 4 years. DR is starting to wear thin on me. I can understand Rolston and Demitra but I can’t understand losing PMB or Gaborik
way too much money for Bouchard. the guy is mediocre offensively and terrible on defense. Koivu is far and away the best all around player on this team and there is no reason to give a one trick pony more then Koivu. be sending an awful message.
DR is starting to wear thin on me.
Jeez…next thing you know Mike will lauding DR for his ability to manage.
Bizarrussoville.
“trade him to the Devils, I want Langenbrunner here !!”
Because that trade makes sense….
Langenbrunner: 6′1″ 200lbs. 33 years old, 13G 28A for 41pts on the season.
Butch: 5′10″ 162 lbs. 24 years old, 13G 50A for 63pts on the season.
Yeah, that seems good. I will take the older guy who produced less for the guy who was 2nd in points on the Wild. Makes perfect sense. Man, why don’t you run this culb??
Whoever said that Adrian Foster wouldn’t be back, where did you see that? He was signed to a two-year deal last year so he’s still under contract unless they’ve released him somehow.
Langenbrunner missed some time due to injury too I believe. So that’s a possible explanation (for the lower production) and risk (will he get hurt again). But he IS from Minnesota!
Plus you have to remember anyone from the East who goes to the Wild will see an immediate and drastic drop in production because of the phenomenal, world-beating defense in the West…
While I am picking up on your sarcasm KiPA, it is a possibility that their production will drop due to a need to also play at least SOME defense.
Plus you have to remember anyone from the East who goes to the Wild will see an immediate and drastic drop in production because of the phenomenal, world-beating defense in the West…
I can’t tell if that’s sarcasm or bitterness. Perhaps both.
Just a question — does Koivu play on the power play? If so, how often? I can’t seem to remember.
Don’t know a lot about minor league players, but it looks like a pretty uninspiring Aeros roster they’ve assembled. The best young players are either going to be on the Wild roster or sent back to juniors.
Not really bitterness, just sarcasm. I’m not revealing my true feelings because I don’t want to anger anyone.
Your true feelings that the defense in the West is no better or different than the defense in the East, it’s just that the East has much more high scoring players?
Yeah, that’s really hidden well.
Nope, that’s not it at all.
Bullmoose: Some of the prospects are too young to play in the AHL if they are not yet 20 or won’t turn 20 by the end of this year. From some of the Aeros posters, I think they are excited to see some more scorers on this team and if the returning players can build upon last season.
WiATX: Unless he is hurt, Koivu like Gaborik is a staple on the PP.
Getting back to Bouchard…
I think the best comp that I’ve seen signed this summer is Andrei Kostitsyn @ 3 years & $9.75MM. Both RFAs, similar age, similar numbers last year. Bouchard has more NHL experience, and maybe that counts for a little bit, but how much? And the point about him getting paid a million more than Koivu or Burns or Shultz probably not going over well is also right on. I suspect the Wild’s offer is in the same ballpark, and if he wants to stay, there you go. If he wants more, then that’s the way the cookie crumbles I’m afraid.
Koivu did play on the PP. He was 7th on the team in PP time normalized for playing time (due to injuries and such).
Actually, he and Parrish were tied at 6th.
Thanks. Where do you find the power play time numbers?
AK will still be a RFA after his current contract ends. PMB will be a UFA next year. There is also a difference here.
I don’t think giving PMB more than Koivu and Burns is out of the realm of possibility. July 1st changed all that. As a I stated earlier, if DR had not worked out Burns and Schultz’s contracts when he did, he will be playing more for the both of them. At least $500K to $1 million more for them.
I’m using behindthenet.ca, which has a bunch of their own stats, including a lot of stuff normalized for 60 minutes of ice time.
And if you’re PMB do you ask for a NTC, and if they won’t give you that (which is likely), then do you ask for more money so that you’re harder to trade?
Or, alternatively, settle for a one year deal in arbitration and pick where you go next year.
http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app
is where you can find most info. Here is the Wild’s specific info - just click on special teams to find the TOI info.
Thanks toivo.
WiATX: Click on TOI for PP minutes, not Special teams.
Really, Claire? I can’t find anything about his contract with the organization other than that he was cut from Wild camp last September. Not that I don’t trust you, but I never believe anything unless I can find it documented either by the team or in newspaper. Even the Aeros site doesn’t list it and they send out a press release every time a player takes a crap.
Bullmoose, this Aeros roster is a better team than last year, even without the Wild’s hotshot prospects. Especially now that the returning players have had a year to learn KC’s system and are on board. Hopefully a leader will emerge from the group, but for the life of me, I couldn’t tell you who I’d make the captain.
And by my calculations, there are 4 spots left on the Aeros roster. If Claire is right about Foster, there’s 3. So there’s still a little bit of the team yet to flesh out. I’m sure there will be another wave of Aeros signings for bubble guys who will likely end up in the ECHL later this month and in August.
hey ms.conduct,
your boys have all resigned!
sunshine, I do agree to some extent, and I don’t think him getting paid a little more than those guys is out of the realm of possibility because of the market. But not a million more. He’s not an UFA just yet.
ms. conduct: Nice to hear that. Seemed like there’s a gap in the Wild’s prospects where the best ones are too young to play in the AHL because they would have to play juniors if they aren’t on the Wild roster and the Aeros didn’t have much that looked like NHL possibilities (sounded like even Pouliot was less than inspiring).
Yeah, I kinda feel like I’m back on dry land, CT.
But isn’t that the idea toivo? He’s not a UFA yet, but if you can sign him now, you might be able to get a little better deal?
RANT:
#1 Trade Gabby:
Why would you trade your top goal scorer and one of the your top assists man, and even when he’s not on the scoreboard, him being on the ice opens up chances as the opposing team makes sure they focus on him.
You want to trade him because you THINK he’s not a leader? Because you THINK his heart is not in it? Have you ever been in the lockerroom and talked to him? Or are you just assuming because he’s not very outspoken?
#2: Bouchard
IMO, he isn’t worth 5 mill, but that’s his market value. A young forward who is speed and is crafty with the puck is going to get a huge pay raise and IMO, we should carefully consider if we want to lock a small winger that can be push a little more than you want, long term
#3: SV
No, he isn’t a top notch checking forward, be neither was Fedoruk. If fans are willing to give Fedoruk 1mil/yr, SV should get the same. He provides energy and solid ice time, and with cap rising, 1mil is the new 700k.
Yeah, you’re right, Bullmoose. We’re in sort of a … whatever the opposite of a sweet spot is… right now. I think that’s why we’re seeing lots of one year deals this season, because next year and the year after, quite a few of the younger prospects should be ready to turn pro and will need some AHL seasoning.
This is our year to win the Calder Cup because we’re not going to do it with a bunch of skinny 20 year old boys.
And if you’re PMB do you ask for a NTC, and if they won’t give you that (which is likely), then do you ask for more money so that you’re harder to trade?
Or, alternatively, settle for a one year deal in arbitration and pick where you go next year.
I’m pretty sure the Wild don’t do NTCs.
My guess is that the Wild are probably offering something along the lines of what they signed Koivu, Burns and Schultz for, and Bouchard wants more. It’s also possible that Bouchard is a bit hardened by the fact that a long-term deal hasn’t happened for him yet (and it has for those other guys) and then he was offered up in the Jokinen trade.
So if I’m right then I think it becomes a case of either Bouchard taking a contract in line with what his teammates got or getting a 1-yr deal and then making a decision at some point (maybe a trade deadline deal). I just don’t see the Wild giving him $4MM per season.
I also think he’d be taking a bit of a risk if he goes the 1-yr deal route with hopes of striking it rich in UFA. He likely won’t be playing with a 30 goal scorer this season, and there’s also no guarantee that the salary cap goes up next year either.
Anyway, we’ll see how it goes.
The Wild seem like the type of team that gives NTC on only sure things and older guys. Guys like Koivu and Burns are too young for an NTC, things happen and with young guys, you don’t want to limit your oppurtunities.
However, if Burns is still with the Wild at age 35 and on his final year of contract and still plays very good hockey, I wouldn’t be surprised the Wild offering an NTC
As for Bouchard, I see him taking the one year deal, getting traded either later this summer or at the trade deadline, and then making big money in free agency. Which, although not fine with me, seems to be fine with a lot of people.
All I have to say about that is I better not see people whining next summer about how DR should have locked PMB up long term for a reasonable amount, which at that point will be around $4 mil., and that now that we’re let him go we can’t find anyone for a reasonable contract that will replace his scoring (see: Rolston situation). Because you know we’re not going to come from the trade.
*not going to get that from the trade, that is.
WATX - I agree. I was just mulling this situation over, and this is (sadly) what I see happening
DR Offers 3.5mil/year; PMB wants 4.5mil/year. DR doesn’t budge. They agree to a 1 year deal. PMB then turns his focus to free agency.
Every day DR doesn’t trade him, his value decreases because he will be harder for his new team to sign him because he’ll want to test FA. This will be factored into the trade agreement, and we’ll get a 2nd round pick and a “serviceable” player.
This is really what I see playing out. And IMO, it’s worth the other million to not have this scenario play out.
The same thing could happen with Gabby.
Ugh. What a dismal off season.
Might as well trade PMB. the team obviously found him expendable, so why would he want to play here?
You can bet SV gets a little extra just for not having an agent. This is the type of behavior the teams (owners) want to encourage. That is why the NHLPA will be watching closely.
“This is really what I see playing out. And IMO, it’s worth the other million to not have this scenario play out.”
+1
I’ve been pretty good with the moves so far this summer, but if DR allows this to happen with PMB he’s on my sh!t list.
Wow, sorry, that’s kind of a lot of anger right there isn’t it.
It’s more like I’ll be much more critical of DR if that happens. But, if it also happens with Gabby, then full blown anger might be called for.
I’ve been pretty good with the moves so far this summer, but if DR allows this to happen with PMB he’s on my sh!t list.
Wow, sorry, that’s kind of a lot of anger right there isn’t it.
It’s more like I’ll be much more critical of DR if that happens. But, if it also happens with Gabby, then full blown anger might be called for.
Just have the other half shave his head and walk around all the time in a Bouchard sweater.
…and nothing else.
(That’s right, I went there. What are ya gunna do ’bout it?)
Well I do have the jersey …
Can’t we just get the signed ping pong table in the trade instead?
WiATX: I am with you.
I’d say if PMB wants $5mil/per…do the 1 year and let him walk…If they can get him for $4-4.25mil/per give or take, I’d do it in a heartbeat…The guy’s only going to get better at 24.
As far as Gabby goes….I’d say right around $8mil/per would be reasonable give or take…Heatly & Spezza are getting $8mil/per for the next 4-5 years, Jumbo Joe is getting 7.2mil/per. Ovechkin+Crosby+Vinny = $9mil/per. Datsyuk + Iginla = reasonable $7mil/per.
There are your top scorers from last season…who on earth thinks Gabby is getting way more than that? Esp. the max?
Well I do have the jersey …
Conversely, you can do the same if his pain happens to be greater than yours. Think of it as role playing.
In that scenario, however, I would advise against you shaving your head.
Austin/Mrs. Austin….if you guys get the hook up with the ping pong table…I’m coming to visit tomorrow! I wasted many a day at Dunwoody playing that game.
I like Gabby at $8-8.5. I don’t think he’s going to get offered much more than that elsewhere unless this year he proves that his groin/hip injury problems are behind him, and also that he isn’t so easily shut down. So, if he chooses to turn that down, either he’s blind to reality or he just really doesn’t want to play here.
And thanks, KiPA, thanks for the advice not to shave my head. Definitely good advice.
Is it wrong that I want to know if he’s getting traded and where to so we can plan any Wild games we’re going to go see next season with that in mind?
Definitely a pessimist on this one. And that’s certainly not my usual outlook.
Forget players what would an outline of what you would spend look like?
23 players
How many 8 million dollar forwards?
How many 6?
1?
How about D and Goalies?
Look at this as a GM would and it is difficult to fit players into the right skills set and $
Remember you only have about 57 Million
Here is a good view of the Wild
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=MIN
And thanks, KiPA, thanks for the advice not to shave my head. Definitely good advice.
Of course, on the other hand, it would be quite easy for you to go from a redhead to a brunette to a blonde or whatever suits your fancy in the morning. It’d also add some spice to that role play thing.
(I’m really really really bored at work right now.)
Nice. I think I’ll keep my hair and stick to my new goal of acquiring the Wild’s ping pong table signed by PMB.
Is it weird that I was shocked to see that Benny (1.7) gets more than Sheppard (1.4)?
Lemmiwinks_ahp,
You are thinking as if it is an ideal world. It isn’t.
With the cap rising every year and more and more players being locked up long term, the UFA crop will be more diluted. Gaborik knows this and also knows he is the key part of this organization.
Because of that, he knows he can get a huge pay raise and more than 8 million/yr is very possible.
I think I’ll keep my hair and stick to my new goal of acquiring the Wild’s ping pong table signed by PMB.
Also good.
Forwards
(in millions)
8,5,3,2.5,2,2,1.5,1.5,1.5,1,1,1,.8
D
5,4,3,2.5,2.5,2,1,1
G
4,1
Total Cap=65.8
CT: You’re also making it seem like all Gabby cares about is money. While I’m sure this is an obvious factor, is he willing to tie up so much cap space that his team can’t afford the supporting cast as has been mentioned earlier? Along with this, will the cap continue to rise every year? No guarantees. I was simply looking at #s and being realistic. Gabby has never come close to putting up 100pts/year, although 80 is a good start. To think that he will make more than guys that are putting up the #s and deserving of such a salary is absurd. If he does, then obviously he won’t sign an extension.
If PMB want 4.5 Mil that would make him my #2 forward. Not happening, Seriously try putting down the numbers you would run it is more difficult because you quickly realize an extra .5 or 1 Mil makes you get a 1.5 instead of a 2 or 2.5. Yes the cap can go up again, but this would be for 2008-2009
Is it weird that I was shocked to see that Benny (1.7) gets more than Sheppard (1.4)?
Not really. Remember that salary bonuses are now figured in to cap hits and that’s possibly why Pouliot’s number is higher than Sheppard and thus possibly why you thought Sheppard should be making more.
The other question that you have to ask yourself is Gabby the 8 or the 5?
Nice. I think I’ll keep my hair and stick to my new goal of acquiring the Wild’s ping pong table signed by PMB.
just remember who suggested to the Don that they hook you guys up :). If I’m ever in Texas (god forbid. I can’t believe I just typed that) I’d demand to see it, and touch it.
I cant get them to fit and I am almost 9 mil over the cap
never mind I typed it backwars its 56.8
Edubs - you are figuring in gabby’s 8 mil for the 09-10 season, right? His 8mil wouldn’t start this season.
PMB’s would start this season, and we should have the room to do it.
edubs….you have gabby figured in at 8 or 8.5 this year? because the contract extension would kick in next year….this year is the 6.333 or whatever
jinx….?
Forwards
(in millions)
8,5,3,2.5,2,2,1.5,1.5,1.5,1,1,1,.8
D
5,4,3,2.5,2.5,2,1,1
G
4,1
Total Cap=56.8
jim love is PMB a #2 forward?
Just trying to figure out a general outline of a team without the names. After I reached approximate cap, then I fill in the names. I loaded my numbers a little more at D but I think it is fair.
Lemmiwinks_ahp,
While I don’t think (at least I hope so) Gaborik is all about the money, players like him and above try to get as much as they can.
I mean, a player like Vinny, a player we all think is quite classy, got a 9mil/yr contract on a team that is rebuilding and has obvious problems with cap space.
Gaborik knows his value and will search for a contract that satisfies it.
On the current Wild Roster? Yeah. He is #2 in points. On any team? Maybe/Maybe not - depends on personnel. I think he’s one of the better set up guys in the league, and if he and gabby were to play on a consistent line together, all hell would break loose (and all our eggs would be in one basket, and defense would not exist).
My point is this - while he may not deserve 4.5 million compared to other salaries on the team he is worth it in the longer term and instead of getting jack for him in a trade (which is my current belief of what would occur).
Sorry, but PMB’s extension wouldn’t count towards 08-09.
Might have been mentioned previously, jumped out at me while I was catching up.
Well, it could I suppose. I retract my previous post.
Oh, and I now appoint jimlove and lemmiwinks to speak on my behalf, as it appears wine makes it tricky for me to pay attention to details. Or things in general.
PMB for 4.5 mil on a medium term contract is fine in my books.
4.5mi/yr for 3 years is a good contract. If we trade PMB, it should only be a trade where we get good value, not just the sake of trading.
That is true that Gaborik doesn’t put up as many points but you have to think about who and how much we will have to pay for to get someone to do the same thing. Most teams have locked up their elite players.
How often does a Hossa come through UFA? Once in a while. Pittsburgh has already locked up Malkin. Don’t you think that LA will lock up Kopitar relatively soon. The Sabers learned from their mistake by letting go Drury and Briere. They had to overpay to lock up Pomminville. You will see alot more Rolstons and Demitras but you are not going to see elite players.
We can debate if Gaborik is an elite player or not but he is better than the Rolstons, Demitras, and Malones. He might not be quite at the level of Lecavalier or Iginla because of his health. However, he has proven that If he remains healthy he can put up 80+ in this defensive system.
Because of that, we will have to give him the money or someone will give him the money. If he decides to leave, that is another story but DR has to do what he can within reason to lock up Gaborik for a long time.
Okay - and I know I’m opening the barn door on this, but since the PMB fan club in Austin is around tonight and there’s strength in numbers….
I don’t get the size argument. Yes he’s small. But how often does he really get knocked off the puck? If he’s going to get bashed he’ll dump in into the offensive zone deeper - he’ll make a move, not lose possession.
Does his size prevent him from going to the net and scoring a goal? Mentally maybe, but he is a set up guy by trade who should score 20 goals/year.
I welcome criticism and argument in support of getting rid of PMB due to size.
Gabbys best $ bet is on a short term contracts like what hossa did, A one or two year shot on a team. He is a HUGE risk as a top money player especially since he has only played about 80% of the games the last 4 years. 80% of 8 million for 4 years=25.6million (100% being 32 Million) Comes out to a 6.4 Million loss. I do not know the average of games played for top end players, getting hurt is part of the game (I wouldn’t expect a 100%). So it is up to the team.
I guess the only other way to get more Gaboriks is to tank and keep tanking for three years to get the top 3 picks in a row.
The PMB argument is not about his size. It is about what he brings to the table is he the #2 or #3 forward on a team? Todd white is the #3 forward in Atlanta at 2.4 mill, on the other hand Alexei Kovalev is the #3 forward for the habs at 4.5
I guess the only other way to get more Gaboriks is to tank and keep tanking for three years to get the top 3 picks in a row.
That was a very edubs-like comment.
Jimlove,
Bouchard isn’t pushover, but he isn’t as effective as he cound be. I don’t think we should get rid of PMB purely on size but in this cap world, we have to pick and choose. Out of all our core young players, atm, the most expendable are Bouchard and Pouliot.
Edbus,
I don’t think there is such a huge risk locking up such a key player to a long term contract. If he was just a 60 point player and he is often injured, then you may have a point. But he is a proven goal scorer and last season, he managed to play an entire season. Injuries have not slowed him down, and that has gained my confidence in his abilities
It will be interesting to see if anyone can tank harder than atlanta this year (they still have 6 mill before the cap floor)
Kevin did you see my break down of the expansion franchises first 5 or 6 seasons? The worst team was Tampa Bay who was the first team of the recent expansions to win a cup. (ottawa, sharks, florida, tampa, columbus, MN)
It is a proven method of “building”
CT - Word. I agree he’s not a pushover (obvio), just welcoming that point of view. I know his staying or going is mostly based on $, not size. And picking and choosing is important for sure.
I might’ve, edubs, but I can’t remember for sure. I have a bad memory to begin with. If it was a recent thread though then probably not, because I didn’t pay too much attention to the last couple.
So our only true “core” is then based on defensive minded, non-offensive players (Burns, Koivu, Shultz)?
No wonder we complain about a lack of offense, and then also complain when that offense costs us way over-priced contracts. If we continue to say that our top scoring players/assist makers are not an important part of our core. I get it now. We’d rather complain about not getting expensive UFA scorers than pay a small premium for offensive players. I should have seen it before.
Kevin, to be fair, that was also (sort of) the Pens game plan. Well, maybe not plan so much as … result. It worked, right?
Sorry, KiPA, but the Pens kind of did the same thing. That was how they were able to acquire Crosby, Malkin, Staal, and MAF.
I would rather not see us go the edubs route. That is why I advocate giving Gaborik the money. Because in three or four years, we will be exactly where the Pens and the Wild are at - have lots of good players but not enough money to spend it on everyone and you have to decide who goes and who stays.
Why prolong it and there is no guarantee of a Stanley Cup either? Just give Gaborik the money if he wants to stay. If he doesn’t then we can go the edubs route.
WildinATX, Kevin already knows. Thats why he pointed me out.
Just need to watch out for #1 Patrick Stefan’s
If anyone want a good laugh Im sure you have all seen it but man it is good
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=missed+empty+net+goal&hl=en&sitesearch=#
Again, the wine and details don’t go together …
TB/Pens are off that vicious cycle by locking up their guys: Malkin, Crosby, and Lecavalier.
The Wild should be doing the same thing.
Gaborik with the big money could equal Kg with the wolves for big money. Kg is great he just wasn’t a jordan more of a rodman (or pipen). Of course since he had the big money the wolves struggled to get him talent to play with. That is the price you pay to be the man, maybe why Hossa went to the Wings cause he knows he is not the man. Proven in ottawa, atlanta, Pitts.
WildinATX
Agreed. According to some, Gaborik is just a some1 who is too expensive or no heart or too injury prone.
#1: Gaborik stayed healthy all season last year, so injury prone ain’t the right word. More like, has a history of injuries.
#2: If you won’t trade Koivu or Burns, you shouldn’t want to trade Gaborik. He is as much part of the core DR keeps describing than any of those players.
#3. For players like Gabby, you have to spend the big money. I have no problem spending 8-9mil on Gaborik on say a 5-6 year deal. Definately prefer closer to the 8 range but with rising caps and diluted UFA crops, we NEED to hold onto our key assets.
should florida given OJ 8 mil just cause it was there teams best player? How about Jason Blake?
Ovechkin 9.5
Heatly 7.5
I don’t know much about basketball but I seem to thing the problem with KG was that McHale let KG dictate who goes and stays with the team to an extent.
The Wild does not give that power to Gaborik. Yes, they did bring in Demitra to entice Gaborik to stay but he was also a very good player in his own right. However, Gaborik never requested that they go out and trade for Demitra. The Wild Brass did that on their own.
Edubs,
No, don’t give money just because he’s the teams best player.
But in Gaborik’s case, theres a reason he’s the team’s best player. Perhaps the reason is, he is just that good. He isn’t a Crosby (btw, Crosy’s contract is considered a discount by every1), but he is very dangerous and when’s he is on the ice, the opposing teams always make sure they watch him.
Yup just like in the playoff all watching him and nobody else 0 goals. I think he is a great talent also, I was at the rangers game when he scored 5. It just seems some players and fans dont realize how to get on a good team is to give yourself a better supporting cast by signing for less.
I *think* Gabby missed something like 10 games last year due to groin injuries. Not quite a complete year, but closer than normal. But, with the surgery, this year is anything goes. We have no idea how it will turn out. Perfect, or worse.
Also, whenever people talk about the core, they don’t mention Gabby or PMB. Even before Shultz’s Feb. extension, they still mentioned him as a part of it. Can you think of any reason other than they don’t consider Gabby and PMB to be a part of the core?
And I agree that Gabby needs a good supporting cast to fulfill his potential. Which I think Gabby realizes too (hence the attempt at the Hossa signing). This all leads me to believe (read: hope) that Gabby will accept a reasonable contract in the hopes that we will then flesh the team out with a quality supporting cast.
Blake is not an elite player. He hit the 40 goal mark once and then never more than 28 goals previously. He is well compensated.
Gaborik’s hit the 30 goal mark 4x and the 40 goal mark once. You can’t compare them.
Yes, Ovechkin and Heatley deserved their contracts. They are the best players on their team.
edbus,
Playoffs are a whole different game. The Wild relied on their top 2 lines for goals and the bottom 2 for checking. Because of that, they were easy to shutdown, espicially when you have alot of guys focusing on Gabby.
As I said, Gaborik is not as elite as though top paid guys, but he is still dangerous. The fact you have guys like Pahlsson always on the ice and always next to Gaborik means something (forgot who’s the Av’s main checker was).
But we shouldn’t pay purely on PO performance. Granted, it is a very important time of the year, 40 goals during the regular season is pretty important as well.
I think its understood that Gaborik is thee core of the core as long as he is not in his last year of his contract.
With the uncertainty of his contract status, he really can’t be really part of the core if he is no longer with the team. Same with PMB.
sunshine,
the very reason we should re-sign him
I needed to recheck the posts but I believe somebody was bad-sassing gabby because “he only passes the puck to Demo.” Has the level of hockey accument dropped that much in Russoville? Has an entire crop of Cannucks fans invaded this board without our knowledge? Gabby had how many assists? Demo had how many goals? Good Gretzky, you would like to think the level of banter would be a tad higher in Russoville. Sad.
If we were pay for playoff performance, no one would want Hossa prior to the Pens series. However, teams were still clamoring for him at the trade deadline. They were willing to give him $80 - $100 million contracts in FA.
ATX- I think Gabby is kind of a given as a core player and also I think people forget how young he actually is. PMB has been on the trading block the last year or so. I think PMB is a good player, if he would go to the net more like St, Louis and score some goals he’d definitely be a core player.
I haven’t really been much of a Gabby supporter, but if you can sign him for 7.5-8.5 per year for 4+ years do it. If he refuses to sign a contract of this length or wants more, trade him He’s not committed to playing here.
CT: You got that right. We do need to re-sign Gaborik.
johng
“7.5-8.5 per year for 4+ years”
Perfect deal for the Wild except, with a deal like that, I would hope for 6 years
Anythign above 8.5, 4 years would be better
Gabby and PMB should both be resigned. I still don’t get where people get the idea that PMB is asking for more than $5MM for his contract. There is no reason to believe that he is asking for some absurd amount. I imagine that he is in the ballpark of somewhere between 3 - 4.something. And IMO anything below 4.5ish is good for him. Gabby on the other hand, is worth the $8MM. I don’t see why he would want more than other top players in the league.
I don’t know what PMB is asking for, but in my mind, his market value is around 5mil on the open UFA market.
A young, crafty winger who has great passing skills, does not go unwanted in the UFA market, where good talent are harder and harder to come by as more guys get long term contracts.
Let’s hope we can get PMB below UFA market because we are not quite there yet.
I believe PMB would get $5 mil in free agency, based on this year’s FA contracts. There are likely at least 5 teams willing to give him that amount based on his current level of performance.
I think Gabby will get around $8.5-9, tops. We are offering a similar deal. If he doesn’t want to play here, that’s different.
So if we’re hoping to get PMB below market, I’d say $4-4.5 is a good deal for him. Try for $4, see what happens. Might need to include a (very limited) NTC, so he doesn’t think you’re signing him just to trade him. Think Backstrom last summer.
It should be noted that the $8.5 million number might just be Russo’s since the Wild did not return his calls re: SRV, so it is safe to assume that the Wild did not provide him with that number. DR did not provide exact amounts of their offer to Rolston but inferred about the amounts after the fact.
Hard for me to argue that we tanked to get Crosby - we had Matt Bradley on the #1 PP at the end of the year - but the others not as much. Remember Fleury was #1 overall only after a trade. The team was also going through bankruptcy issues and it’s difficult to pay players that way, so we’re stuck with dredges. Mario bought the team because a$$hole owner Howard Baldwin gave him a horribly bloated contract and they couldn’t pay it, so Mario exchanged the money for ownership.
Regardless, having those guys doesn’t guarantee anything.
Not to mention the game passed our GM by, and Edzo was definitely part of the “defense? What’s defense?” line of thinking.
And we did pay Gonchar $25 million coming out of the lockout, a sure sign of tanking.
I am only in favor of trading Gabby IF he is the one refusing to sign the contract. Russo has reported the Wild are about to offer him a very fair contract. IF he decides this isn’t where he wants to play then yes we have no choice but to trade him before the start of the season. You do not let someone like Gaborik walk for free. Personally I love Gaborik and think he’s great for our franchise. He attracts the casual fan. When I walk in to work the next day after a Wild game people aren’t talking about the great two way game of Koivu(not knocking Mikko here) they are talking about Gabby shooting lasers at the opposing goalie or Gabby racing up the ice for the OT winner. I normally don’t jump in on the Bashing of Doug Risebrough. I’ll admitt I’m not really a fan but I let him do his thing and don’t pretend to know more then him BUT losing Gaborik after so many other gaffes I would say that would be the final nail in his coffin. He should be let go if he is forced to trade our franchise player.
JMO - People that suggest we tank for high draft picks. That could have worked in our early days but I think it would send the wrong message now and leave a very sour taste in the fans mouths. We’ve been supporting this team since day 1. The blow it up and just say “oops, lets try again.” You’ll lose the fans…
Sorry for the rant.
Exactly… it doesn’t guarantee anything but headaches about who and how to pay for the can’t-lose players.
Lucky: I think a lot of people would agree with your rant. I personally do. I don’t advocate tanking either but it might happen if we don’t get a good deal for Gaborik in a trade if he doesn’t sign an extension.
Besides, there’s rumblings that Staal doesn’t like being the No. 3 center. There’s some talk of moving him to wing, but if you want to tank, why draft three stud centers? I don’t think there was any tanking at all for Staal, and no one, I mean NO ONE, expected him to develop into the player he is now, at least not this quickly. He probably would’ve been sent to juniors his first year if he wasn’t scoring goals left and right.
build from within, are you srv’s brother or something? i said “yeah he does actually have some heart, but not much talent to go with it”…that’s hardly contradicting myself. i know *a lot* about hockey and probably watched 70% of all wild games last year, he is overrated by you, the wild nation, and i don’t really get where all the love for him comes from other than he seems like a nice guy…
as for pmb, everything i have heard makes it sound like he wants more then the wild want to give him…and what tehy are offering has always sounded fair, so by definition that is greedy…sorry…
Pkne,
SV is a very solid player. No, he is not a stud checker, a stud hitter, a stud scorer, a stud playmaker. None of the above. But he adds energy to an energy line that JL loves to use and he does well on the forecheck. He plays solid ice time and alot of times for alot of teams, its hard to find good low contract players to play solid minutes on the bottom 6.
And PMB isn’t greedy.
Greedy: “Excessively desirous of acquiring or possessing, especially wishing to possess more than what one needs or deserves”
The key word in this definition is ‘Excessively’. PMB knows his market value, we all do. He’ll get 5mil off the market and that his choice as a human being who wants to make a living. Hell, I get paid $1000 a month at an internship where I do nothing. Am I greedy?
Back to SRV.
Don’t know if anyone’s pointed this out…
SRV made $595,000 last year. Not huge but I wouldn’t mind $595,000. SRV fired his agent. Even if he signs another $595,000 contract - unlikely as didn’t he have a record year, don’t we think he’s due a raise? Even he signs for the same ammount, because of the fired agent, he seeing a raise equivalent to the agent’s fee. What does an agent get? 5%? 10%? If it was 5%, that’s an additional $29,750 in SRV’s pocket. Most of us would be really, really happy to get a 5% raise.
Maybe SRV’s head is straighter than we think. He’s giving himself a raise even if he can’t get one out of DR.
PMB might not be greedy, but I would guess his agent is. Even Gabby fired him when his agent couldn’t get a deal done. PMB might like the contract and his agent might be talking him out of it with the lure of big cash next year. Unfortunately we don’t know. We only have 1/2 of the story and we are making up the other half as we go. Just like the whole OJ trade deadline. I heard reports of they wanted to trade OJ for Gabby straight up. Not going to happen, but DR gets crap for not getting it done. We don’t know what his offers are and the only thing we can do is make up stuff off of past performances.
Edubs @ 10:07pm, a well-reasoned opinion on the PMB and Cap issues, et al. The Cap is a “sticky wicket” indeed.
No, I did not see your post on the proven method of building a team.
Goody: Russo reported it was 4% for the agent. So a 4% raise. This is just SRV’s entry-level contract expiring, correct? I’d much rather give him $1mil/year than Fedoruk/Voros…with $1mil/year he gets a 70% raise and no $$ to an agent. Done deal.
REALITY BITES!!!!
REALITY BITES!!!!
Where’s my hockey schedule and pink pimp hat?
lemmiwinks, 4%, thanks, I thought I’d seen a % somewhere.
I’d be comfortable with $1mil for SRV. But as I said, it’d be hard for him to get screwed too badly as unless he signed for less $, he’d still be getting a 4% raise.
No worries Goody….and to whoever was asking why everyone loves SRV so much….aside from having the nickname SRV, he’s the token firecrotch on the Wild.
lemmi: WTF are you doing up so early?!
Anything more than $4mil is too much for Butch at this stage in his career. Maybe later he will be worth more, but at this point I think his ceiling should be $4 million with incentives. Add a nice incentive based on GOALS as well as points. Maybe he’ll start shooting once in a while.
A young, crafty winger who has great passing skills, does not go unwanted in the UFA market, where good talent are harder and harder to come by as more guys get long term contracts.
exactly correct. Which is why since we have the opportunity to lock one up for a few years we should take advantage of it!
NiNY: Work my friend, I work 4 9s; 7:30-5:30 and a half day friday. But our network server is down so I get to sit on here
I think it was mentioned last night about whether or not PMB gets pushed off the puck, but I have two observations on that topic:
1. Yes he does.
2. When he doesn’t it can be argued that it’s likely that he just skated away from the probable source of physical pressure.
PMB, for whatever reason, is not a “high traffic area” kind of player. He is a good perimeter player with better-than-average vision and the ability to “find the open man.” Those are good skills.
Are they worth retaining? Therein lies the debate.
Oh yeah, and get Gaborik signed PLEASE, so we don’t have to see you-know-who spam the site with his mantra ad nauseam.
bummer, lemmi.
half day on Friday isn’t too bad though.
One of my jobs in Denver was on market hours. In by 7 out by 2:30…not bad.
Food for Thought: Schultz was the last “core” Wild player that broke in with the Wild (i.e not Rolston or Demo) that DR went to the brink with. DR got it done and signed Schultz to a good contract with the Wild but also gave Schultz 5 years. However, the player before that was Mitchell. As I recall, DR and Willie disagreed on “market value” and the player was traded with a 3rd round pick (I think) for Skoula and Belle. Ultimately, Willie signed for just a bit more than what DR was offering but last time I checked, Willie never skated for the Wild again and Skoula is what he is.
Nick, I would have to say yes. PMB is worth keeping. As is SRV. No reason today; to tired to think of one other than I like them. Is that good enough for before lunch?
Lemmi, your work schedule sucks if it makes you get up that early.
Assuming you do have to trade Gaborik (I hope not). For all of you arm-chair GMs, what would you all consider “good” value?
How do you replace a 40+ goal scorer? This last year is first time ANY Wild player has ever scored 80 or more points (this is a staggering statistic to me). If Gaborik is gone - how long before we have another?
Id rather have PMB long-term than Gabby, considering the money they’d command; at least the Prime Minister’s got cajones. Gabby’s a diva with a bad attitude. I just cant see locking him up as your premier player (6+ years, 9+ per). I’ll take Sheppard at that in a few years over Gabby.
But I think you can do better than Gabby as your premier guy. Not on skill, but on the total package that you need to bring a cup here.
Wallshot: I would have said Lecavalier PRE-mega contract.
He will be 39 in the last year of that deal. I like the fact that the money tapers off in the last four years, and that it’s not a 35-year old rule deal, but it’s still a scary-long time.
But I think you can do better than Gabby as your premier guy.
I thought Mikko was our premier guy?
He is, afterall, the one they call “franchise.”
Maybe that’s part of Gaby’s negotiating stance.
“Doug, the money’s fine. Really. But my stance on the fans ceasing and desisting on calling Koivu ‘Franchise’ is firm. If you can’t deliver that, I’m going to Russia.”
I don’t miss Mitchell. He’s just average, imo. Although it was a second round pick we sent in that deal.
Maybe not the best deal overall, but if Mitchell wasn’t going to sign anyway, it’s not that bad. Would have been better if Belle had progressed.
I think it was mentioned last night about whether or not PMB gets pushed off the puck, but I have two observations on that topic:
Thanks for responding to this NiNY. I was looking for someone to disagree with me. I would be interested in finding out how often we really lose posseion though. I can’t imagine for how much he handles the puck that the loss percentage would be very high. Then again, I have Austin-tinted glasses on when I watch PMB as well…
What it all comes down to is this - the difference between a RFA and a UFA is that you have exclusive rights to negotiate with your player. They’re still a FA and the market value gets played into the new contract. Huselius (who we were all on board with) only had a few more points than butch and went for 4.5. Demo had less pts and went for 4. And if we’re talking about overpaying him compared to the “core” then what do you call Johnsson’s contract? Burns, Koivu, Schultz all had choices about whether or not they wanted to sign on the dotted line, and they did.
/rant.
Nick Re: the Lecavalier contract - yes, the salary tapers off, but the cap hit is still the same. Cap hit might look good in the middle of the contract, but at the end could look ugly. Unless he plays like Sakic in his later years.
Then again, I have Austin-tinted glasses on when I watch PMB as well…
well, to be fair, my glasses on PMB are tinted in the opposite color, whatever that would be.
yes, the salary tapers off, but the cap hit is still the same.
great point. I think that’s a big part of what’s bugging me. He’s all-but untradeable until the deadline of his last season (when you only have to pick up a season-to-date pro-rated amount of that cap hit).
Mike-tinted glasses?
ugh…I suppose you’re right Wall…
Remember, in spending the Cap dollars, we have our emotional favorites … because they make nice plays, or because we think they are good in the community, or many other reasons.
But, life sometimes seems cruel and unfair. Those $$$ decisions must be made from the head and not from the heart.
As Edubs alluded to, we should really want DR to manage the Wilds Cap numbers prudently.
If he overpays fans favorites, (*maybe because we want him to in some circumstances), the bottom line is that we will continue to have holes in the lineup and not be heading toward the Cup.
so, I just watched the highlights from the development camp softball outing…B-b-b Benny had not one but FOUR dingers?! Dude…you know if this hockey thing doesn’t work out, maybe the Twinkies can use ya?!
kj tinted glasses would be appropriate too.
Howard Baldwin.
Thanks to his meddling with the NStars, Norm Greed got involved and the rest, they say, is history.
He damn near ruined 2 franchises.
wow…also just watched the scrimmage highlights. Kalus scores by being in the slot - IIRC that was his MO on all those goals he scored with Boston, too. Shep’s goal was a nice power move, with speed. Noreau’s goal was more like a ASG goal (read: maybe not the most physical defense) but there were some sick moves in there.
Iceman…are being a fan favorite and being talented mutually exclusive?
(Thought I’d lob this one over the wall, see what happens.)
***
Half way through July, no Gabby update, no deal in sight.
If you really, really, really, REALLY, wanted to sign your “marquee” player, why would you wait THIS long? (Don’t give me that July 1st bull$h!t either. TB got it done.)
Think about it.
Why would you wait?
What are you waiting for?
Your leading scorer, and, whether you like it or not the face of the franchise, and he’s NOT your first priority? Why? You wanna “wait to see how much cap space is remaining for next year”, blah blah blah? BS. IF he’s your priority, you get that deal done, THEN fill in the gaps.
Here’s what’s really going:
DR has already publicly dismissed the possibility of the max contract or similar (no arguments here). But in so doing, has set the tone for the negotiations. (think: cheap).
He’s also made it clear that he’s working on “other” deals, and will get to MG’s contract later this month (???).
So as this drags on, the likelihood that there will be a trade increases. DR can sit back and say that Gabby turned down a “fair” offer, that he doesn’t want to be here, and then come out smelling like a rose when he’s “forced” to trade him.
That’s really all there is too it, imo.
/rant
Gaborik thought…
The last few years he’s had his buddy Demitra around to hang with). I’m wondering if his ‘team play’ might improve with the departure of Demitra. Now that Demitra’s not around, maybe he spends more time hanging with the team instead of his shower buddy exclusively. Maybe he ’sees’ more players on the ice. Maybe an increase in ‘team play’ would increase his production. Maybe it would dispell the reputation (deserved or not) that he’s all about #1.
We shall see. Hopefully he steps forward.
bfw*: okay, who’s on your list as dance partners, and whom are they offering up?
bfw*
The first rule of DR negotiations is you do not talk about negotiations.
The second rule of DR negotiation is YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT NEGOTIATIONS.
Personally? I think he (DR) is going to muck up Gaborik AND PMB this offseason.
Willie Mitchell is a $3.5 million cap hit through 09/10, Skoula is at $1.8 million last year and this. Maybe DR would have had to go to $4 million to avoid the trade - how would that look now vs. the trade? I am on the fence on PMB but with the OJ forced trade in the rear view mirror, I am not sure if I like the idea of DR pulling the trigger on the PMB trade vs. “over paying” PMB.
BFW I’ll bite on this one
a) Gabby needs to commit to this team and system. What if he really doesnt want to be here should you over pay him.
b) opposite is true for PMB I think he likes it here but now feels jaded after an attempted trade.
c)If a and b are true bundle the two together and send them to a team that really needs some players. Think Hotlanta (Gabby+PMB=Ilya)
D)deal has two work for both teams, atlanta is desperate for players and we get a franchise guy in his prime.
bfw, Or, he’s been working hard, throwing offers at Gaborik and they’re all bouncing back. Nothing he seems to do looks attractive to Gaborik as he’s dead set against resigning with the Wild.
We can speculate all we want. You could even probably come up with some story about Gaborik being abducted by aliens and replaced with a Gaborik shaped robot. The aliens forgot to program the robot to respond to DR’s offers and as such, no news.
as long as we’re already this far out on the limb, I wonder what DR could fetch for BOTH Gaby and PMB?
Does the new GabbyBOT have a good groin?
Goody, shouldn’t that be that he’s all about #10? If he was all about #1 he’d be all about the fans.
iGaborik.
Are we sure that DR has not been abducted by McHale?
Is this more Gaborik only passes to Demitra stuff?
Parrish was asked about Gaborik and who he hangs with and he said that Gaborik is just one of the boys and hangs out with everyone even though he is part of the Slovak Mafia.
As noted by Russo, Gaborik is also tight with Bruno.
sunshine is correct, thats why they both were up in Duluth for the ALS walleye tourny about a month before Bruno signed
sunshine: I think this is more “in the absence of any real food, the natives become restless, and it’s easier to entertain wild hairs”.
But with Gabbys short contract I think it has allowed his mind to wander about the what ifs.
c)If a and b are true bundle the two together and send them to a team that really needs some players. Think Hotlanta (Gabby+PMB=Ilya)
Okay, no cheating!
You can’t go to the Ilya card: I might post incessantly and vociferously for the Wild to trade for/sign him…
Anyone in on a Gabby+PMB= Ilya Kovalchuk trade?
Question: if the Wild shop Gabby, do the NHL rules allow a potential team and Gabby’s agent work out an extension before the trade is done?
sunshine: I think this is more “in the absence of any real food, the natives become restless, and it’s easier to entertain wild hairs”.
*giggles, ducks around the corner*
It would be a good deal Marian goes east, Hotlanta has tons of cap space, Marian gets 7.5 Million and PMB about 5 and they still are under the cap. They can swim around in there money and be stuck in NHL purgatory.
What would we get, in addition to Kovalchuk, to make that deal fair?
Anyone in on a Gabby+PMB= Ilya Kovalchuk trade?
kind of… I just get a bit nervous about having all our scoring in one person.
Then again, we’re not going to win the cup this year anyways, and our scoring kids will hopefully develop enough…
Yeah, I could be down with that.
We get Kovy, and I’m definitely COMC!!!
Just speculating sunshine.
Bandgeek, yes, it should be #10.
edubs, only time will tell.
Then again, we’re not going to win the cup this year anyways, and our scoring kids will hopefully develop enough…
See, if this is the case (and I would agree), then why not try to band-aid the lineup (including Gaby/PMB) and then go nuts in FA next summer?
Ilya is also a physical player, think burns crossed with gabby. That is the type of player I would sign long term, in games if he is shut down offensively he hits and will even drop the mits once in a while. Plus he hardly ever misses a breakaway/shootout thats worth 5 wins right there in our system.
“Personally? I think he (DR) is going to muck up Gaborik AND PMB this offseason.”
I think everyone here would turn into Mike at that point. I hope you are wrong kj… I really do.
NiNY: yeah half-day Fridays are nice. I usually get done and go play hockey at CU or start the happy hour at noon.
Band: Yeah getting up early sucks. Also sucks when I take the bus so I need to be at the bus stop at 6:15 or so…but for $50 for the whole summer it’s worth it. And I don’t have to pay gas!
I have to think that’s definitely in DR’s mind right now. As passive as he is, if he can convince himself (not to mention Leipold) that the team is not a Cup contender this season, and there are a lot of “the right kind of pieces” coming on the FA market next summer, then why would you pay a PMB long-term at some high dollar amount?
DR wants to go to arbitration with PMB for sure. He wants the “out” that gives him.
whats COMC?
“Anyone in on a Gabby+PMB= Ilya Kovalchuk trade?”
You would have to throw a +1 in there to make it worth it IMO.
Reunite PMB and Todd White! Take Erik Christensen in that deal and the Wild would have C depth too.
Gabby+PMB+ 2nd round pick= Ilya
That type of plus one?
Dude,
What about Little? He was their #1 in ‘06? $900k thru 09-10.
I think Ilya, all by himself in our system, would be an likely candidate for quick disenfranchisement. He’d have tons of pressure on him here (the lone replacement for Gaby and PMB!) and there’s no way he’d produce enough to meet expectations. What if he doesn’t like the defensive requirements?
So he comes here, bristles at/with JL, doesn’t put out enough to keep the local Slovers off his back and then Russia (mother Russia, I might add) comes calling with a nice hometown premium deal and all the pirogies he can eat. That would sound pretty enticing to me.
edubs: you’re going the wrong way, bro.
I just don’t think we’re deep enough to be doing any 2:1 deals with our offensive players.
It’s got to be equal parts going and coming.
6GS: I think the new team can start negotiations right away.
I think if we trade Gaborik to Atlanta, he would not want to stay there unless he was doing it for money. I can see him going into UFA instead. PMB might stay.
Assuming you can’t sign PMB to more than a 1 year deal, trading him seems like the next step. Now, I remember hearing rumblings in the past that San Jose was considering trading Marleau in the past…
Think they would be interested in PMB? SJ has to have some cap issues right now.
whats COMC?
Choking On My Cheerios.
See Ms. Conduct’s 11:43pm, my reply at 11:59pm.
“Gabby+PMB+ 2nd round pick= Ilya
That type of plus one?”
Now you are REALLY smoking crack.
I meanr something like: Gabby + PMB = Ilya + 1
Gabby+PMB=Ilya
goals
42 + 13 = 3 more than Ilya scored last year (sure your missing a bunch of assists but PMB doesnt have anyone to pass to anyways)
Mother Russia would be my only concern in that deal. Can agents work out the long term deal before the trade. Someone already asked that but it is a good point for both sides.
Marleau’s NTC kicked in on July 1 and we can’t handle his $6.3 million cap hit for two seasons. We will have our own cap issues if we trade for Marleau.
wallshot: that is very interesting.
Patty’s making $6.3M per for this year and next (same cap hit). According to nhlnumbers the Sharks are at $55M and change in cap hit right now. So maybe they can save $2M by switching to PMB.
The question is: can we afford to take on $6.3M?
ahh…the dreaded NTC…nice call Sunshine.
*We get Kovy, and I’m definitely COMC!!!*
LOL Woohoo! Made it to day two. We’re well on our way to coining some new interwebz lingo.
Edubs, it’s Choking On My Cheerios.
Before a trade — I don’t think so unless the old team gives the new team the right to negotiate before the actual trade happens.
After a trade, they can negotiate all they want.
Gabby+PMB= Ilya
career goals
206+61=13 more than ilya
Thats over a career on one of the worst teams in the NHL. No crack here Austin I would leave it at a 2 for 1 deal.
Can agents work out the long term deal before the trade.
Yep - that is my question and it could apply to PMB or Gabby. My guess is that the answer is no because FLA probably would have wanted to do that if the PMB trade was the best offer they had.
The NTC nixes that idea. Too bad.
Yeah, but he also plays in the SE division where there really isn’t any great defense or goal-tending. Okay, I might be slightly exaggerating here but I am not far off the truth.
If we and JL have a problem with Gaborik not playing defense enough, how will we feel about Ilya not defense at all?
Are there any other trade options? Suggestions anyone Gabby+PMB=?
I dont think there are any Fins left so be creative.
KJ, some fan favorites are not particularly talented or effective but they are still fan favorites.
sunshine remember the southeast had Luongo and HabbyBulin and a Stanley Cup champion in TB.
Maybe DR is waiting for word on Gabby’s hip surgery, how his recovery is progessing, etc? Did we all forget that little item? I guess we’d be po’d if we signed him to a 4 year deal and then find out he has a chronic injury.
Gabby + PMB for a combo of either Frolov, Kopitar or Brown or Sully.
Well, besides the groin!
If we and JL have a problem with Gaborik not playing defense enough, how will we feel about Ilya not defense at all?
Have you seen this man play? He is a freak. He is much bigger (6-1, 225)than Mary Ann, and frickin HITS! Even ENJOYS the physical part of the game. Plus, he’s got a nasty side. Not to mention he’s that rare skilled right-hand shot.
Plus, he’s made tremendous strides in his two-way game over the years.
CHL is a threat, though.
LA might make good trade partners in a few years when they need to sign all of there draft picks at once. Like Pitts this year.
DR is probably up-to-date with Gaborik’s rehab. I don’t think he was waiting for that. DR already said that they wouldn’t deal with Gaborik’s contract until after FA and they re-sign most of their RFAs.
We already know that Gaborik has a chronic groin injury. That’s not new info. I think DR is willing to risk it because they know how to manage the injury.
Gabby+PMB for Spezza+?
Gabby would be much happier in the wide open offensive eastern conference. With the wild, it’s like playing defense with 4 men when he is on the ice because he “floats” out near the blue line looking for the home run pass. Other players try to make that pass and it ends up in a turnover and a goal against the Wild. The man (Gabby) is a liability on this team. I say trade him while the NHL thinks he is of value. I think otherwise.
Gabby + PMB = Kovy = Little ?
Arrg.
Gabby + PMB = Kovy + Little ?
NiNY said:
So he comes here, bristles at/with JL, doesn’t put out enough to keep the local Slovers off his back and then Russia…
out or up? What’s on the brain today Nick?
So he comes here, bristles at/with JL, doesn’t put out enough to keep the local Slovers off his back and then Russia……
Sheesh, NiNY. Whaddya buyin’ condoms on the way to the cemetary??
Sheesh, NiNY. Whaddya buyin’ condoms on the way to the cemetary??
nice
Hey Lemmi,
How’s that work luggin’ the hockey gear on the bus?
Thank you, Battmann. Not all of us are Gaborik fans. Don’t you wonder if his “groin” injury is really a hip problem?
Gabby, PMB and Parrish for Rick Nash, Mike Commodore and Raffi Torres
I would rather not have Commodore’s contract.
“Excuse me, is your refrigerator running? Because if it is, it probably runs like you - very homosexually.”
I hope PMB lands somewhere where is wanted and appreciated. DR is making it clear that MN is not that place.
“Don’t worry, I got an idea. An idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.”"
snack time.
I did not like the trade Risebrough made sending prospect center Patrick O’Sullivan and the 17th overall draft pick in 2006 for Demitra. It stings even more now that Demitra is in Vancouver without accomplishing much the 2 seasons he was here. O’Sullivan scored 22 goals along with 31 assists last season and is only going to get better. The draft pick turned out to be Trevor Lewis and it is too early to determine his future. The point is the Wild traded away a promising player and a high draft pick, ending up with nothing to show for it.
