Wild sorta update
Posted on July 23rd, 2008 – 8:56 PMBy Michael Russo
Have gotten a bunch of understandable emails from Wild worry warts regarding Pierre-Marc Bouchard and Marian Gaborik.
There’s not much to report, but I’ll throw this up on the blog.
According to Wild assistant GM Tom Lynn, he doesn’t plan to make an initial offer to Gaborik until there’s a resolution with Bouchard. His arbitration hearing is scheduled for Monday.
That doesn’t mean the team hasn’t focused on what it plans to offer Gaborik. It means the Wild’s decided to deal with Bouchard’s situation before it focuses on Gaborik. Lynn won’t comment, but you can bet it’ll be a long-term deal (four to seven years, I’m betting) in the $8.5 million neighborhood.
As for Bouchard, the two sides aren’t close on a long-term deal. While I still believe the two sides will work out a one-year deal prior to arbitration, this one definitely has the chance of actually getting to the arbitration hearing.
Lynn flew to Toronto tonight to get situated, and right now, I’m getting the feeling there’s a large gap between what the Wild is seeking from the arbitrator and what Bouchard’s camp is seeking. Usually, both sides have a good idea what number an arbitrator will decide upon, so they can avoid arbitration and come to an agreement (like last year when the Wild and Bouchard agreed on a one-year, $2.6 million deal before arb or like last week when Stephane Veilleux and the Wild agreed to a one-year, $862,500 contract, including a 125K signing bonus).
In this case, the gap appears to be large enough that the Wild and Bouchard may not come to a compromise. So, there’s a shot it’ll get there.
But remember, in arbitration, the two sides can still come to an agreement right up to the time a decision is rendered by the arbitrator, which typically comes within 72 hours of the close of the hearing.
That’s it from Russo’s abode. Nighty night folks.
210 Responses to "Wild sorta update"
FIRST
I just want to say that I did not send Russo an email, though I did make a plea for an update earlier today — too much work got me a little crazy there.
I hate zigtron.
I’ll defer to G* for a ruling, but I thought it was decided that Freshmen whom chime in as “First” are relegated to the Vikings’ blog?
Now that that’s out of the way, looking forward to Gabby signing a 6-yr, $52 million dollar deal on July 31. Gonna be a nice way to close out the month of July.
“Gabby signing a 6-yr, $52 million dollar deal on July 31.”
I would be totally on board with that.
don’t hate the player….hate the game
Zig- I think I speak for everyone when I say we will simply hate both.
I hope they don’t waste 8.5 million a year on Gaborik. Please trade him now.
I’m also on board for a long term Gabby signing. Love the man.
No no,
Someone talked about the Don hooking up with the Strib IT guys to get people who post “first” kicked off ever posting on the site again.
But if they did that, there would be no vikes blog. The first 10 posts on every thread are 1-10.
And Russo, you’re just too darn good to us. 2 posts in one day? Jeez. You’d think we had nothing better to do other than to sacrifice sheep and reproduce only to give you our virgins. Thanks for the update!
Waste 8.5 millon on Gaborik??
So do people think DR is cheap or not? If he can’t sign players we like, he’s cheap, if he signs veteran NHLers and not superstars, he’s overpaying.
I’m with Gabsmustgo - Gabby’s not worth 8.5 mil. If he’d had scored perhaps, one goal during the playoffs, then I can see 8.5 mil.
And Russo, despite your journalistic integrity and not wanting to muddle up the blog with non-Wild-hockey musings, hows the foot? I mean for cripe’s sake, I had to read about (and almost commented on until sanity prevailed) crappy college beer for a week. What’s a foot?
Oh and Wild Worry Worts? Ya think there’s a few here? Except we like to be called Russotans.
But how do you replace all those goals? I don’t really like Gabby either, but he’s our goal scoring sugar daddy and we’d be out on the street without him. Even if he did choke in the playoffs (and perhaps there was that hip injury to blame to some degree), what deal do you make here?
Um. Hopefully that didn’t come across as shrill in screen as it sounded in my head… But I have yet to hear of a realistic trade that would actually fill the void.
“I’m with Gabsmustgo - Gabby’s not worth 8.5 mil. If he’d had scored perhaps, one goal during the playoffs, then I can see 8.5 mil.”
I disagree and let me tell you why.
A) Gaborik is a franchise player. True he has battled the injury bug his short career but he is a proven player and when healthy he is a top 10 player in this league. Don’t believe me? Stop by NHL.com and let me know who’s #7 for goals scored this year.
B) Gaborik is a game changer. Exactly what is our record WITHOUT Gaborik? He’s our #1 threat hands down.
C) Re: Playoffs - I’ve said it many times along with other Wild fans. It’s hard to score goals when your center has to stay back as a 3rd defensemen and your other winger is a washed up old goon. That line was pretty damn easy to shut down. I really don’t know what Lemaire was thinking with that line.
D) If we don’t want to pay up there are 29 other teams willing to do so and you can bet some team like Edmonton will throw some insane contract at him. Don’t believe me? Check other message boards and see what the fans think. Might I suggest the Canucks for starters?
figure out a number, then trade his ass. Bouchard is a terrible player, is a defensive liability, and needs to be dealt for either a skilled center or someone who can put the puck in the net.
When has PMB have been a defensive liabilty and when has he been terrible???
The only reason he will get traded is because he is the most expendable and most one-sided player, but thats not to say he is terrible defensively.
The Wild is trying to shift towards a bigger, phyiscal, faster and quick puck moving team. We have always been the latter two but the ‘bigger’ and ‘physical’ is something we lacked in our 8 years. Thats why PMB is the most expendable, he has the most trade value and he somewhat does not fill in the direction the team is going (see Gillies).
He is solid defensively, great hands and vision, quick skater, but lacks the phyiscal play we want.
Lucky:
I agree with all except a little bit of C)
I thought we got shutdown easy not because of JL using Fedoruk and Demitra with Gabby, but just the lack of scoring depth. We had 2 scoring lines, and the rest are pure role lines. So its easy enough to realize which line does what. When line 1 or 2 goes out, send Arnason or Pahlsson out, when line 3 or 4 goes out, send in the Wolski and Perry.
Not to mention lack of phyiscal play throught out the lines. Line 1 and 2 is okay physical but not punishing enough, line 3 is an energy line but not punishing and line 4 has the enforcers who punish but thats it.
Oh, not the mention injured d, so no movement from the blueline means, all the ooponnet forwards have to do is pressure the forwards as they know 95% of the passes that go to the blueline won’t go anywhere but out of the zone.
Gotta say I’m against giving Gaborik $8.5M per.
Per this:
http://www.nhlnumbers.com./sort.php?pos=none&type=salary0910
There are currently two (2!) players who will make more in the 09/10 season. AO and STK. Following those two at $9M the next closest is at $8.05M.
CT - that’s some deep thinking on a late Wed. night.
I have no problem with Gabby as a player, but he’s not an 8.5 mil player. NHLnumbers.com has the data - go look. Next season Gabby will make $7.5M and is ranked 13 overall (Chara is 12 & Kovalchuk is 14). So plug him in at $8.5M for 09/10 and where is he?
1. Ovechkin $9.0M
2. Crosby $9.0M
3. Gaborik $8.5M
4. Drury $8.05M
5. Briere, Gomez, Heatley, Spezza, & Kipper $8.0M
He’s good, but he hasn’t proven himself to be as good as the rest of these guys.
If he wants to be the Wild’s 8.5 million guy, then I say trade him now and spend it on a free agent next season (Marian Hossa will be available!!!). We could get a pair of Sedin’s for probably around $9.0M.
I’m thinkin the next moronic FIRST post should invoke the RIAC rule.
zigtron…your Grand Forksiness is showing.
C) Re: Playoffs - I’ve said it many times along with other Wild fans. It’s hard to score goals when your center has to stay back as a 3rd defensemen and your other winger is a washed up old goon. That line was pretty damn easy to shut down. I really don’t know what Lemaire was thinking with that line.
Everyone knows that STK, Iginla, Ovie are on the ice…yet they cannot be stopped.
I could stop Gaborik on a breakaway because he stops himself.
Gaborik is a wannabe superstar. However, he is clearly the best that the Wild have and they need to re-sign him.
My bad - the Sedin’s will go for around $12M.
ballgame, great minds eh?
I see loads of players that make less than $8.5M that I would happily trade Gaborik for.
Goody - Good on ya’. While I was doing my research, you plopped the link down on top of me.
Is it sad that the two most visited websites after this place are youtube & nhlnumbers?
I’ll answer my own question - yes.
So why does Lynn have to deal with PMB before dealing with Gabby? Never heard of multi-tasking?
Tommy Lynn: I like it man! Eff multi tasking!
I’ll defer to G* for a ruling, but I thought it was decided that Freshmen whom chime in as “First” are relegated to the Vikings’ blog?
I’m not the blog police but I agree that relegation to the viking’s blog is in order.
1. Ovechkin $9.0M
2. Crosby $9.0M
3. Gaborik $8.5M
4. Drury $8.05M
5. Briere, Gomez, Heatley, Spezza, & Kipper $8.0M
He’s good, but he hasn’t proven himself to be as good as the rest of these guys.
STK and ovie are not comparable to anyone.
kipper is a goalie.
but drury? gomez? are you living in the 90’s? what has heatley won besides a get out of jail free card? spezza?
like it or not, #10 is a top 10 if not top 5 forward. his goals per game is as high as anyone.
If he’d had scored perhaps, one goal during the playoffs
this one made me laugh. for the past month it has been non-stop b!tching about losing all the scoring that rolston provided and we replaced it with old man nolan. how are the wild going to score? Now we’ve forgotten about that and moved on to b!tching that the wild want to sign their franchise player that didn’t score in last years playoffs. question, how many goals did OJ score last year in playoffs? how about vinny?
Bullmoose - part of it may be that depending on what they figure out with PMB could affect what they can pay Gaborik and fit under the cap.
Granted, IMO it should probably work the other way around. Sign the ‘face of the franchise’ and then figure out what you’ve got left to pay the others.
So why does Lynn have to deal with PMB before dealing with Gabby? Never heard of multi-tasking?
he doesn’t have to but chooses to. and since PMB will conclude on monday and #10 isn’t going anywere, seems like a prudent move.
G*, part of it may be that we are on the inside looking out at Gaborik but we are on the outside looking in at other players. Do other team’s fans talk about Gaborik in the way that we talk about Iginla, AO, STK, Kovalchuck, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hossa, etc…
I don’t think waiting 5 days to turn focus on #10 is going to hurt anything
Do other team’s fans talk about Gaborik in the way that we talk about Iginla, AO, STK, Kovalchuck, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hossa, etc…
probably, everyone wants what they don’t have.
Lynn’s office this morning:
Nothing happening on PMB negotiations right now. I could a) call Gabby’s agent and kick around some numbers, or b) play some Free Cell. I’ll choose “b”.
PMB was apparently dangled for OJ.
But, don’t forget, OJ was a little unique, a strong two way player in an important position with skills that match our system and where we are weak, and with a decent contract.
Good points both ways on Gabby. Maybe it is not fair to say Gabby choked or even that he cannot score for the way our centers play.
Gabby did learn to play some D and so he was not a bust in the series. And, Koivu had assists so some of the wings score in our system.
Gabby has two problems as I see it. First he is streaky.
I would rather have him get a couple game winners against Calgary after Iginla just tied the score. How do his game winning goals stack up against the best in the league? What are his clutch stats like?
The other issue is that like Rolston, he got predictable and consequently easier to stop.
What are his clutch stats like?
here we go again.
waiting for someone to trot out richard park as an example of a “clutch” player…
“Do other team’s fans talk about Gaborik in the way that we talk about Iginla, AO, STK, Kovalchuck, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hossa, etc…”
living in a house with a mix of hockey fans, it seems to me that others see gabby as a skilled individual, nobody can doubt that…but they percieve him as cocky/selfish and generally not a team player.
This is coming from wings fans though.
Nothing happening on PMB negotiations right now. I could a) call Gabby’s agent and kick around some numbers, or b) play some Free Cell. I’ll choose “b”.
i bet he wishes his days were this simple.
I may be in the minority on this, but I felt that Gaby (and others)sacrificed some offensive chances against the Avs because they knew how short we were defensively and they were playing with one skate back in the neutral zone, so to speak.
Remember that, as good as Theodore looked, we did not get many chances that weren’t perimeter shots.
Remember also that Lemaire said he was disappointed they lost because they were finally playing the way he thought they could play. To me, having watching a Lemaire-coached team so closely these past seasons, that would indicate that he felt they were paying adequate attention to the defensive side - and so the perimeter shots didn’t bug him as much.
My point here is that, while more offense from Gaby certainly would have helped, if the idea is that he upheld his coaches’ (as opposed to his fans’) expectations for what a captain should be (by playing well in ALL zones) then perhaps, in the eyes of his GM, he is worth that $8.5M.
It wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world if he turned into Yzerman or Modano. I, for one, have complained about his defensive shortcomings in the past…
waiting for someone to trot out richard park as an example of a “clutch” player…
LOL…I know you didn’t just hate on my boy Rip Park, G*!!
No disagreement with your assessment of perimeter shots NiNY, and that Gabby did produce defensively or that improving his defense are all a big help.
But, Theodore was still called on to make some mighty fine saves and he did that, and saved games with Colorado.
Given that the Cap rises, if Gabby got the sort of contract DB at 10:04 is not out of reason at 6/$52. I do not think that is breaking the bank.
I didn’t mean to take away from Theodore’s performance at all. He was superb.
I would not assume the cap will only rise every year. What if the USD stabilizes (versus the Looney)? Does increased travel costs eat into “revenue” (I honestly don’t know if it does for purposes of the salary cap)?
What if revenues are up since the lockout because the league is just getting back to it’s pre-lockout popularity level, and once it stabilizes those revenues flatten out too?
probably, everyone wants what they don’t have.
Especially here, eh Green*??? 
Like it or not, it will cost big dough to sign Gaborik. However, his game isn’t what worries me with a long term contract. His injuries do. And the loss of his personal groinerator may impact his ability to get back on the ice.
8.5 is not my favorite number for him, but it is what it will take to re-sign him.
One thing is for sure…either he will be re-signed long term, or he’ll be traded for a 3rd rounder thanks to our beloved GM… 
NiNY…I still think it was less Theodore being superb and more the Wild not getting good chances.
How is it Jarome Iginla gets signed for $7 million per year, and the Wild are going to have to offer 8.5 or more for Groinorik? Something is wrong with that.
45th!
G* - I’m still waiting for you to make your case explaining why Gabby’s worth 8.5M. He can put the puck in the net, but he’s not much of a gamer. I know there’s no way to quantify that, but tell me with a straight face that he wants to win a Cup.
he’s not much of a gamer
Green* is going to have visions of RIAC after that one. After he COHC of course…
I’m not sure what to think about PMB’s negotiations. But with Gaborik, if he is interested in staying with the Wild you almost have to make that happen, whatever the cost.
The Wild haven’t exactly been luring the NHL elite to Minnesota. When you have one already in town you better do your best to keep him in town.
Think about it this way, what would it cost to replace Gaborik’s production on the free agent market? I’m talking one player and getting him to sign in Minnesota? It would be at least $8.5MM average on a long term deal. Consider what Hossa turned down. Consider that $10MM isn’t enough motivation for Sundin.
kj - I agree with you about Theodore. I didn’t think he was all that spectacular against the Wild. I felt that his play had more to do with the Wild not really testing him. Even on their good scoring chances they were slow to get off shots giving him time to regroup.
i bet he wishes his days were this simple.
But other that dealing with PMB’s impending hearing, shouldn’t signing Gabby be #2 on the priority list? There just doesn’t seem to be a logical reason he couldn’t work on both at the same time.
So, Butch probably gets a one year deal, what can you get from a trade for him? Does anyone even WANT him?
Florida didn’t.
Would be cool if we could somehow get Afinogenov from Buffalo (his contract is up after next season too). Can you imagine him on a line with Gaborik? Talk about speed…
And he had a groin injury last season, so he’d fit right in.
Florida didn’t want his contract situation. They have one of their own in Bouwmeester. Ottawa probably don’t want him because they have two contract situations in Vermette and Mezaros.
However, I think if PMB is signed to a one-year deal, we can trade him and the new team will have half the year to re-sign him. Better scenario for the new team.
Yeah, but trade him for WHAT, sunshine? I don’t think anyone is going to offer much for him.
Someone will difinetely want PMB. There is no doubt that many teams out there would happily take a small guy who is fantastic with the puck and a great passer/set-up guy.
I really want to know how big this gap is between what Bouchard’s agent wants, and what the Wild want.
Butch seems like a good fit for Montreal (not just because he’s a frog) - think the Habs would be interested?
You make it sound like PMB is Matt Foy. PMB has worth.
It would be great to get an established 2nd liner back but if not, prospects and picks is better than letting him go nothing, which is unacceptable.
Bouchard finished the season with 60 pts — 13G and 50A… his salary was waht? 2.6MM? Now lets take a look at other Forwards that are very close to the same point production as Butch and conpare salaries… this may give us a good indication of what the arbitrator may come out with…
Brad Richards: 20G 42A 7.8MM
Alex Tanguay: 18G 40A 5.0MM
Ales Hemsky: 20G 51A 3.5MM (escelates to 5.0MM by final year)
Paul Kariya: 16G 49A 6.0MM
Bouchard finished the season with 60 pts — 13G and 50A… his salary was waht? 2.6MM? Now lets take a look at other Forwards that are very close to the same point production as Butch and conpare salaries… this may give us a good indication of what the arbitrator may come out with…
Brad Richards: 20G 42A 7.8MM
Alex Tanguay: 18G 40A 5.0MM
Ales Hemsky: 20G 51A 3.5MM (escelates to 5.0MM by final year)
Paul Kariya: 16G 49A 6.0MM
wtf? My computer just double posted fo no apprarent reason… sorry about that guys and gals.
sunshine…PMB was MORE tradeable at the deadline last year. His contract status (at the end of last season) was still a RFA, meaning the club would be able to keep him another year (08-09), or choose not to match an offer sheet and get draft picks.
If he signs a one year deal now, his contract status (at the end of the year) will be UFA - anyone can negotiate with him…if he so chooses.
That makes a club less likely to trade for him…unless it is a Hossa like scenario and they want to make a SCP run.
Ask KiPA if the Hossa deal was ‘worth it’…
um…Austin?
13+50 = 60??
What is that, Texas math?
Of course, PMB was more tradeable at the deadline last year. DR tried to move him for Olli.
Look, DR has no choice but to trade PMB for whatever he can get, which likely will be picks and/or prospect. He can’t just let PMB walk for nothing.
I think PMB is not going to be more tradeable at the deadline this year because he is not a playoff gamer — unless we are sellers and can package him with Skoula or MAB. The sooner you trade him, the more time the new team can work to re-sign him.
Since my last post got cut short, here is more of the list I was working towards**:
Brad Richards: 20G 42A 7.8MM
Alex Tanguay: 18G 40A 5.0MM
Ales Hemsky: 20G 51A 3.5MM (escelates to 5.0MM by final year)
Paul Kariya: 16G 49A 6.0MM
Saku Koivu: 16G 40A 4.75MM
Viktor Kozlov: 16G 38A 2.5MM
Pavol Demitra: 15G 39A 4.0MM
Andy MacDonald: 18G 34A 3.33MM
Scott Gomez: 16G 54A 10.0MM
So it looks like a wide range of guys, in a wide age range, and a wide range of salries. Still, the lowest is in 3MM range with others being a lot higher… i think PMB would fall in the 4MM range easily.
**All players on the list were choosen because they had less than 20G and a fairly close number in final points.
Nick, I think I had 60 on the brain, and the 3 didn’t register… my bad.
he’s not much of a gamer
I didn’t know we wanted a team full of everquest cats.
G*, EQ is dead, it’s all about WoW 
Look, DR has no choice but to trade PMB for whatever he can get, which likely will be picks and/or prospect. He can’t just let PMB walk for nothing.
Who the hell is going to fill his spot if he gets traded for prospects? The team is going to be boring as it is even WITH him this year.
i’m all about diablo III
and GTA IV.
#10 has to be a gamer, he has the F1 simulator.
I do think #10 wants to win. I think #10 thinks that if #10 can score 5 goals a game, then the team will win. I think he is learning that there are other ways.
PMB salary was set when patty sharp signed a 4 mil deal last year and the talk was cleary getting 4 mil per before he broke his face, i think it was.
what is the problem with PMB signing 1 year deal, we don’t deal him this summer because all we would get is a dead 2nd thru 7th round pick, let him play for his FA contract, and deal him at deadline when some other contender would be jonesin’ for his mad skills?
I think that getting Gabby to sign for $8.5M would be a steal. As the Oilers demonstated offering $81M for Hossa for 9 years, teams are willing to pay big bucks for top-end talent while the role players have to keep moving from team to team as they get replaced by younger, cheaper role players. I expect the cap to continue to march up and 2 years from now that contract would look like a bargain. As many have said, you do not replace Gabby’s goals easily. I also hate to lose Butch. I do think a number of teams would be interested in a playmaker like him. And, he is fun to watch and a player who comes out of the corner with the puck quite frequently against stronger players because he is so good with his stick. But, it is clear that he is as good as gone. And, he will not be that easy to replace. Yes, he has deficiencies but he is skilled.
i see kj addressed my last post before i posted it. good work.
hossa deal was a failure because pitt didn’t win the cup. winning the cup is the only measure of success. 1 team succeeds, detroit. the other 29 fail.
this means that 99% of all trade deadline deals are failures.
did detroit make a deadline move? san jose did for campbell…failure.
washington did for a goalie and a commie…failure.
the wild made deadline day move for simon…failure.
teams will still make deadline day moves. If PMB is pending UFA, I think he could be worth more in FEB than he would be this summer.
[ Iginla50goals says:
July 24th, 2008 at 9:20 am
So, Butch probably gets a one year deal, what can you get from a trade for him? Does anyone even WANT him?
Florida didn’t.
Iginla50goals says:
July 24th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Yeah, but trade him for WHAT, sunshine? I don’t think anyone is going to offer much for him.
Iginla50goals says:
July 24th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Look, DR has no choice but to trade PMB for whatever he can get, which likely will be picks and/or prospect. He can’t just let PMB walk for nothing.
Who the hell is going to fill his spot if he gets traded for prospects? The team is going to be boring as it is even WITH him this year.]
So you went from saying who would want him to now don’t trade him?
If PMB signs a one year deal and DR can’t re-sign him to a longer deal during the season, DR has NO CHOICE but to to trade him.
PMB has worth and you cannot let him walk away for nothing.
It’s all about Halo 3, and since I do hold the first post on this blog, I cannot be wrong.
It is not a good idea to sign Gaborik to a long term deal unless they plan on adding the right players that can supplement the way he plays. He has difference-maker speed and a shot but they do not seem to be able to adjust Lemaire’s system enough to allow for a free-wheeling line to go full speed. If a line can control play offensively all they need is some solid defensemen to get the puck out of the zone up to them - they might have those D now but they do not have the right type of players to play with Gaborik.
There is still a chemistry problem between Lemaires style of play and what the real Stanley Cup contenders are doing. The Wild was only occasionally able to play at the same level that we saw in the playoffs this year. Those teams played at that level every shift and every game.
G* - But one could argue that pitt wouldn’t have even gotten that deep in the SCP without hossa and pascal doin work for them…i feel that had malkin done ANYTHING in the finals, they would have had a legit chance of winning it all. But who knew he would play that poorly?
When did I say don’t trade him? What I’m saying is there is a problem. If you can’t trade him for an equal caliber player (which I don’t think you can), then at the very least you have to wait until the trade deadline. But then if the team is actually fighting for a playoff spot, trading him for prospects doesn’t look good there either.
Just seems like the team screwed themselves not signing him to a multi-year deal a few years back.
Is it just me, or does this organization seem to have a history of waiting to till the 11th hour to make these kinds of decisions?
(do we tell zigtron that he has the “kick me” sign on his back?)
do we tell zigtron that he has the “kick me” sign on his back?
no
But one could argue that pitt wouldn’t have even gotten that deep in the SCP without hossa and pascal doin work for them
argue all you want but around here, you are a failure if you don’t win the cup. it is black and white. I think it is russoville commandment #2 behind RIAC is to be worshipped, which is #1.
I think commandment #3 is the cup is awarded in july after FA signings and the games are played only to make money to pay said FA’s. Fans are lemmings.
do we tell zigtron that he has the “kick me” sign on his back?
Let’s just take turns tossing pieces of popcorn in his beer
Shock! What a surprise from this organization. Gabby doesn’t fit into Lemaire’s schemes. Plus, he doesn’t have the speed players to keep up with him (maybe PMB). Trade him for a Iginla type player; it looks like there is a little bad blood between him and the Flames organization.
This organization is falling down and regressing. Move over Timberwolves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Move over Timberwolves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mr. Exclamation Point says: ‘You only need one of me here. Remember kids, with exclamation points it’s one or none!’
Aaron in Houston Says -
“Think about it this way, what would it cost to replace Gaborik’s production on the free agent market? I’m talking one player and getting him to sign in Minnesota?”
This is the closest anyone has come to saying that we can’t sign big names here. Nobody wants’ to play under this system and I think JL is the cause for players not wanting to sign here. The possible Hossa deal from last year is a perfect example. Gabby and Dimetra and you still couldn’t get him to come here. We need a change behind the bench before we start to see any productive movement of players in and out of our system.
Since we’re back in GM mode and talking about the possibility of signing Butch to a 1-yr and then trading him, here’s one I thought I’d bring back for review.
At the trade deadline, I made the argument that if you’re not going to be a buyer, and you don’t see your team as a serious cup threat (which I didn’t with the Wild), then I thought they may as well be a seller. Specifically, I thought that if the best they could come up with was Chris Simon, then they would have been better off trading Rolston and Demitra instead. My idea was *mostly* scoffed at.
Now here we are in late July. Rolston and Demitra are both gone with nothing in return. I know there are problems with treating people as commodities to be traded around so casually like this was fantasy hockey (Riser even wrote a bit about this on his blog at the deadline), but just thought I’d see what the Russotans think about this idea now in hindsight.
“It’s all about Halo 3, and since I do hold the first post on this blog, I cannot be wrong. ”
Halo 3 is ghey. COD4 > Halo.
PMB is a pimp. Sign him. Good day.
I think the problem GM have at the trade deadline is the tightness of the various conferences and the way the salary cap functions in the real world. Teams didn’t realize or in denial thay they weren’t going to make the playoffs. Yes, salary is pro-rated but you still need room to add guys. No room because you’ve tied up all your money in people you want to keep for the moment, too bad.
This is the closest anyone has come to saying that we can’t sign big names here.
Hardly. The idea has been thrashed around here for some time. I don’t buy it, personally.
<i.but just thought I’d see what the Russotans think about this idea now in hindsight
with the benefit of hindsight, you trade them, no questions asked. that’s an easy question.
Green*…only one of us lives by those commandments, right Deep?
O Worshiper of Rosieful Chaps Without Ass.
with the benefit of hindsight, you trade them, no questions asked. that’s an easy question.
A good GM would have anticipated the early 1st round exit and traded Rolston, Demitra, Simon, Voros, Fedoruk, Carney and Hill.
Funny thing about the state of the Wild at the last trade deadline - they were struggling mightily, IIRC. However, very soon thereafter, they picked it up and basically finished the regular season playing their best hockey.
So, let’s re-cast the question. Would folks here have endorsed trading Demo and Roli if asked the question on April 3 (or whatever night it was the NW division was clinched)? People would have asked for DR’s head (and rightly so).
What we have to look at is the fact the wild got guys who can grind down low (Bruno & Nolan) which forces the oppenants d to send a second guy down low to get the puck back, leaving a scorer open or at least the D up high. We have added some really good D that can score! this should boost the scoring somewhat. Gabby staying healthy he will be a 100 piont player. 50/50. In the playoffs the opposing team never had to send in a second player to knock someone off the puck! Rolston, Demitra, PMB all are soft. Kiovu, Nolan & Brunno are strong on there stick (Sheppard should be the same)and use there size and strength to maintain control of the puck. This should open up scoring for us. the slot should be open alot more and with the scoring D we now have, they should be able to jump into the play, with some good scoring chances. Hockey is a team game you need good passing and open shots to score. I think we have added that this year. Veillux and Radios goals were all set up by Kiovu working down low and opening up the slot! Grinders down low open up shots in the slot! Gabby should have a great year playing with Kiovu or Bruno! Rip away!
I guess then at minimum 25 teams should have been sellers at the deadline and should just stop making an effort so they can win the Stamkos sweepstakes.
You just can’t sell because you aren’t a Stanley Cup contender. You still are a playoff contender and with playoffs comes extra money. I think one of the papers said that the Wild makes an extra $2 million for each game played at the X. Plus you never know what will happen in the playoffs. We couldn’t have predicted that Schultz, Foster, Radio, and Parrish will be out for most of the playoffs.
Also, on 2/25, the day before the trade deadline, we were on top of our division by 3 points. Getting Simon tanked the team for a week and half. Getting rid of Rolston and Demo would have crumbled this team into oblivion.
However, very soon thereafter, they picked it up and basically finished the regular season playing their best hockey.
I dunno about that. They seemed to still sputter off and on like they had all season, IMO. They went 10-10 the rest of the way out, 52 GF, 49 GA, which was pretty consistent with how they played most of the season. They had some good games along the way, and a few duds as well.
Your hypothetical is a good exercise. My head still says yes, trade them, but my heart would resist mightily on April 3.
Correction: on 2/25, we were one point behind Calgary in the division standings. The website I was using didn’t change the standings.
I guess then at minimum 25 teams should have been sellers at the deadline
Well, there’s a bit of a paradox here at work with this counter. My argument is based on the deadline being a sellers’ market, which it is, and taking a somewhat contrarian approach in some situations. If every team took this logic, then it becomes a buyers’ market.
NHL’04 > Halo3 > Halo > Halo2 > COD4
i say if you make the playoffs you are a cup contender because you can never win a cup if you don’t make the playoffs.
Ask KiPA if the Hossa deal was ‘worth it’…
It was, if the player Atlanta drafted with the pick we gave them and Esposito don’t work out. As G* said, of course, we didn’t win the Cup, so it was a failure, but the depth of the failure won’t be known for a couple years. I thoroughly enjoyed the finals run, which wouldn’t have happened without the trade. It kept my mind off baseball season until June.
And Austin: screw WoW. I quit that three months ago. Got too boring after so long playing it. Warhammer Online or Diablo 3… those’ll pique my interest.
NHL’04 > Halo3 > Halo > Halo2 > COD4 > zigtron > Mike
Oops…I forgot to add this after my last post:
/sarcasm
KiPA - How do you feel about malkins performance in the finals?? would the end result be different had he done something…
KiPA - How do you feel about malkins performance in the finals?? obviously it sucked, but would him ripping it up have made a difference in the long run??
Maybe. He reportedly had flu-like problems (had trouble keeping food down) and maybe a bad shoulder (caused by the Richards’ hit in game 1 of the ECF). He was hardly the only player who didn’t show up though.
“NHL’04 > Halo3 > Halo > Halo2 > COD4 > zigtron > Mike”
mike??
wild>flames
79 days till the season starts.
How do you feel about malkins performance in the finals??
are you running malkin out of town? thats what we do here to talent that don’t perform in playoffs.
are you running malkin out of town?
Personally, no. There was plenty of criticism aimed towards him, of course (the illness stuff hadn’t been reported till after the series) but I don’t think the torches and pitchforks were out in the open.
Of course, the city has plenty of idiots too, like there was some chat on a website just a little bit ago which pens fans took over (was supposed to be about baseball trades), and some morons discussed trading for Gaborik.
I’d like to open the floor to that discussion (realistically, please, no malkin-for-gaborik straight up stuff) before I share what those dopes talked about (which was just as idiotic).
Uh. Gaborik/Schaefer for Malkin?
Haha, Ms. C.
I mean, er, I’ll get back to you on that.
Okay, we’ll throw in a 4th rounder.
Would the Pens be the contender they are without Malkin? He kind of saved the team when STK was out.
wild > flames
Iginla > wild
Oh come on Ms. C….we should give them our 3rd rounders for the rest of time….we’re just going to trade them away anyways
Kevin, I’d say maybe Gaborik, Pouliot and a second as a starting point
KiPA:
Forget I asked that question about Malkin. I didn’t fully read your post.
Greenstar- I agree with your thought about Gabby and what he is worth, but not for the same reasons you mention.
His total games played is a concern when signing him to big money (injuries) Greenstar, its not fair to compare the results of those other players on your list to that of Gabbys, they play in the Eastern Conference and are younger than he is by a few years with the one exception of Drury.
I think that Gabby would get more points if he played in the Eastern Conference. A couple of teams in our division just punish the guy physically Mister Greenstar, and they play more open ? No doubt
His injuries make it hard for me not his talent, and his game. 7.5 to 8 seems more reasonable
The talk wasn’t us trading Malkin, but acquiring Gaborik. Some people think it’s fair for a first-rounder and native son Alex Goligoski (or Letang) and maybe another player for Gaborik.
Then we’d re-sign him for $7-8.5m.
And sunshine: no, we wouldn’t be nearly the contender we are without Malkin. He definitely stepped it up when Crosby was hurt.
Whatever they were smoking, I hope they left some for the rest of us, Kevin.
It gets better, Jerome. Some people then said that not only does Gaborik expect a max, $11M contract but he might get one.
However, if Gaborik can replicate managing his injury as he did this past season, I think $8 to $8.5 million is reasonable.
Missing 5 games is not a big deal even though we did go 1-4 when he was out.
It gets better, Jerome.
Ha ha, it’s Jarome, actually.
Ha ha, it’s Jarome, actually.
Not in the United States, it’s not. That’s the Canadian way. Boo Canada!
Don’t make fun of Canada. Canada gave us hockey, and of course JAROME Iginla.
Later of course, Chuck Norris and Sidney Crosby burst forth from Jarome Iginla’s forehead.
Just covering up for my mistake by blaming others.
Blame Canada!
talent that don’t perform in playoffs.
2008 NHL Playoff Stats
Malkin 20GP, 10G, 12A
Gaborik 6GP, 0G, 1A
Just saying…
Blame Canada!
It’s a vile, cold, wooded wasteland populated with propaganda-spewing lumberjacks and their irritating ilk. Who needs it?
Ms. C - How’s the hockey playing coming as a player? I finally got a new pair of gloves as the old ones were ripping the skin off the back of my right thumb everytime…and the school’s rink is finally back on a normal schedule (they had some us junior development league/camp there) so I’m pumped to start playing regularly again.
Lemmi, I have my first game on Sunday and I’m scared shitless about it. The only thing keeping me sane is the notion that I can drink as much beer as I want when it’s over. 
But I’m laying awake at night with visions of forgetting about the offsides rule repeatedly, freezing like a statue when I get the puck, getting too tired and ralphing (we have an extra hour of ice this week so it will be a full game with clock stoppages and everything), etc etc etc.
About to hit the ice this evening for a little “yes, you CAN skate, you’ll be fine” session.
But seriously. I can already taste the Dos Equis. And lots of it.
It’s a vile, cold, wooded wasteland populated with propaganda-spewing lumberjacks and their irritating ilk. Who needs it?
Moose?
Moose?
They can have Wisconsin.
But I’m laying awake at night with visions of forgetting about the offsides rule repeatedly, freezing like a statue when I get the puck, getting too tired and ralphing
If you go offsides, blame your linemate for holding up at the blue line. If you freeze like a statue with the puck, blame your teammates for not supporting the puck. Getting too tired and ralphing is all on you, though.
Getting too tired and ralphing is all on you, though.
Nah, blame your teammates for not working hard enough, forcing you to exert yourself more and more until you’re past your breaking (ralphing) point.
kj says:
July 24th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
“A good GM would have anticipated the early 1st round exit and traded Rolston, Demitra, Simon, Voros, Fedoruk, Carney and Hill.”
Seriously??? Why not just tank the whole season then and get the first OV? This one of the most idiotic bash to DR I have ever seen, it drips personal bias…
We need more Asians on the team to win.
Jackie Chan + Jet Li + Happy Gilmore = Enforcer + kick you ass line
CT: LOL…on your Asian line.
Though, I don’t know if Happy Gilmore should be the enforcer since Bob Barker beat him up.
Blame Canada!
They’re not even a real country anyway
Best. Movie. Ever.
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Blame-Canada-lyrics-South-Park/9E94B82AED5BC99248256DD600151A00
Thanks guys… I got some clarity skating tonight: Nobody ever died from making a jackass of themselves. Worst case, I’ll just be a big useless pylon. Best case, I’ll make a useful pass or two, maybe get a shot on goal. And then beer. Lots of beer.
I just want to congratulate the Minnesota WIld for signing Craig Weller. He may not be what you would call a “polished” player but he is tough as nails with a huge heart.
We’ll miss him here in the desert.
Worst case, I’ll just be a big useless pylon.
…Wear a Skoula jersey as kind of a reverse jinx?
KiPA: lol @ reverse jinx
Ms C: I’m in about the same boat as you, although I started playing about a year and a half ago, and didn’t really start until I moved out here this spring….the first couple of drop-ins I went to I sucked….but as you well know it becomes an obsession to keep going and getting better. One of our games we only had 5 players show up for the whole hour…..that was fun….man I can’t wait to play and drink beer tomorrow.
Anyone want to go to work for me?
Hey, yeah, finally an excuse to get a John Scott jersey from the Aeros! You guys just think Skoula’s a pylon…
Yeah, Coyotes, from what I hear, he’s my kind of player. Hopefully he’ll fill the void that Fridge left in my sad hockey heart. *sniff*
Beer + ice = not good
Thanks Lemmi. I think once I get a few games under my belt, I’ll be more excited than nervous.
Obviously Circular Theory, you missed the followup post:
/sarcasm
But then again, I am thrilled that you recognized my originality where Douggie DoNothing is concerned…
“Later of course, Chuck Norris and Sidney Crosby burst forth from Jarome Iginla’s forehead.”
Then Chuck Norris roundhouse kicked Crosby in the face and sent him flying through the side of a bus. Nobody bursts out of foreheads alongside Chuck Norris. Nobody.
kj:
I definately missed it
Its early at work and Im falling asleep on my keyboard, work with me here!
WGN is broadcasting a handful of the Blackhawks games once again next year and given their acquisitions, young talent and aggressive signings I’m guessing I’ll be tuning into them as much as the Wild.
Bob Barker - Alex Trebek - Pat Sajac
Jackie Chan - Jet Li - ME!!!
…I’m bored…
Lemmi, Ms. C - I have played games where I’ve felt my only role is to give the better players on my team time to rest.
Just remember to have fun. That’s the point right?
From yesterday:
KJ @ 1:52pm - “”A good GM would have anticipated the early 1st round exit and traded Rolston, Demitra, Simon, Voros, Fedoruk, Carney and Hill.”"
Oh come now, you can’t expect a GM would consider the possibilities of an early end to the season at tha time when they are in the hunt for a division championship. Any coach or GM worth his salt must remain optimistic with that much time left, if not they probably ought to be fired!
Response to Derrick @ 2:18pm, I would not rip your opinion. I think it is an excellent observation.
ok KJ, /sarcasm.
Goody: So is that also the way Skoula thinks? He’s only out there to give the other guys time to rest? I know where you’re coming from, though.
Thanks Goody. You guys are good therapy. Though I was still up until 3:30 this morning because every time I turned the light off and tried to go to sleep, some new panic would take over my mind. By the end, it was whether or not I can actually get over the boards for my shift without slipping and cracking my head open on the top of the boards. I seriously feel like a crazy person. I’m SO taking some benedryl tonight before bed. One Coma, Please!
No helmet Ms Conduct?
I heart margaret brennan
Yes, I have a good helmet (N/B 8500) but I can still conjure up a concussion if I imagine landing just wrong…
Maybe you’d have better luck with women NOT in your TV, Greenstar.
Just a suggestion…
OH YEAH
Drink up!
Giggity.
I don’t know about you guys but I’m impressed by the quality of the discussion since 10:56.
You think the insomnia’s bad now Ms. C, wait until after the game!
Come on Goody, she’s going to slip into an alcohol induced coma from the sounds of it.
Mmmmm…. alcohol induced coma… ::drool::
Wow…I cannot believe the uproar over my obviously sarcastic post!!!
Has Russoville lost it’s collective sense of humor???
If at the deadline DR would have unloaded those players, we would have STORMED his office and scared his horse to death!
Don’t say that, Goody! I’m counting on having the best sleep I’ve had in the last month on Sunday night!
Honestly, I may be too tired to lift the bottle enough to go all Beer Coma. It’s wrong to drink beer with a straw, isn’t it?
So THAT’S where DR gets his horseshit!
I heart margaret brennan
G*, congrats on making the break from Marney.
KJ:
Well you have to understand that your sarcasm post came several post after your initial post. Not only that but another poster had made a similar remark to yours.. so you add that up and you got what you got.
so you add that up and you got what you got.
2 + 2 = 5 (for large values of 2)
“So THAT’S where DR gets his horseshit!”
I thought he got all of his horseshit at the trade deadlines?
are you implying that simon wasn’t a high quality player???!?!!
No, DR clearly has a local source for his horseshit. I just didn’t realize it was right in his office. That clears a lot of things up.
ms.conduct.
Obviously it is a talking horse. ‘Cept he doesn’t know which end to listen to.
Don’t say that, Goody! I’m counting on having the best sleep I’ve had in the last month on Sunday night!
Honestly, I may be too tired to lift the bottle enough to go all Beer Coma. It’s wrong to drink beer with a straw, isn’t it?
Ms. C, I usually sleep like a dead rock if I wait a few hours before going to bed. Jump into bed right away after a late game and I don’t sleep so well. Too much adrenaline still pumping around.
Didn’t someone say the beers at GM Place come with a lid and a straw? Can anyone confirm this? Some mixed drinks come with straws don’t they?
Well, margaritas tend to come with straws, which is why that’s always been my post-marathon/half-marathon drink of choice. I can just be dead tired and basically use the straw to multi-task as a head-holder-upper and tequila conduit.
The rink is 25 miles from my house, so there’s no chance of going right to bed unless I just decide to sleep on the picnic table in the parking lot. The joys of living in a city with only 4 real rinks.
Well, by right away, I mean after I drive home (anywhere from 10 - 30 minutes depending on where the game is), unpack and hang the gear (5-10) minutes, and shower (10 minutes). So even when I go to bed ‘right away’ I’ve been up for between 25 and 50 minutes after leaving the rink.
kj, some here would lynch DR for less than that. You have never expressed any fondness for him either.
Iceman, my disappointment regarding his moves (or lack thereof) have been well chronicled.
And totally rejected by the Rock-a-Dile Red crowd!
Gotcha, Goody. I’m just glad I don’t have any regular meetings scheduled for Monday mornings, so if I need a little extra shut-eye, it’s not a problem.
random thought: the dark knight kicks a$$
Why so serious?
Russo:
Can we get an update before heading to the weekend?
While we are counting down the minutes to the end of the business day, what do you think of this trade proposal by an Ottawa fan on HFboards.com:
To Ottawa: Niklas Backstrom, Mark Parrish, Petr Kalus
To Minnesota: Antoine Vermette, Martin Gerber, Josh Hennessy
What’s in it for Ottawa?
As a Wild fan I’d do that deal in a heartbeat. The only thing I have an issue with(and it’s not even a huge issue) I would pass on Gerber and just take a draft pick. We don’t need to swap goalies. I don’t think Backstrom will be traded until deadline though. They’ll split the season with Harding and see how it goes. If Harding steals the show then he gets to be #1 goalie. If not Backs gets an extension.
Sunshine,
I think that might be the best online proposal I’ve ever seen. It seems like a legit deal for both sides! Even the Sens fans seem to be on board.
Better goalie and get rid of volatile contract situation.
We get rid of Parrish, bring in volatile contract situation, and Gerber and another center prospect.
That is what it means for us and them. Though, I don’t like Vermette’s contract situation. However, he’s seems to be looking at $3.5 to $4 million, which is doable for the Wild’s standpoint.
It would also mean more salary for us and suspect goaltending with Harding and Gerber as a backup.
I wouldn’t totally COMC from the goaltending angle, though I’d rather Harding “win” the #1 spot from Backstrom rather than have it handed to him. I’m in the camp where I don’t believe we’ll get out of the first round, so taking some risks between the pipes doesn’t worry me much.
I’ve seen Gerber a few times but I never watch the Sens so Vermette and Hennessy are strangers to me.
wzup peeps? what did i miss? coming 2 u live from lovely, sunny Cross lake mn, drink n my hand, got my toes in the sand, all i need, is a beautiful girl! happy wknd 2 u all, i.ve had it in full party mode since tues. the next 1.s for you all!
Lucky:
Yeah, its one of the very few where I haven’t outright reject the trade proposal.
Goody: re: GM Place beer: Yes, they indeed DO come with a lid and straws. I was absolutely dumbfounded by that when I saw it last March, I couldn’t believe it. Now, if it had been one or two, I’d say someone was just playing a joke on somebody. But, it was HUNDREDS of them!
BTW: proposed trade by Ottawa fans: Look out, they’re trying to get rid of Gerber any way they can. We don’t need him. The only way I’d trade for Gerber in a deal like that is if:
1. We get a third team involved who really NEEDS goaltending, and;
2. Ottawa MUST take Martin Skoula as part of the deal! No Skoula? NO DEAL!
Sadly I think Parrish could use the trade the most. He just doesn’t seem to work here. I don’t know if the deal really blows anyone away but it just seems fair to both sides. Maybe I’m crazy?
Side note: I love saying Iowa Chops. It’s just fun.
Damn. I want BFW*’s week. Ms. C needs a vaycay.
I think Parrish needs another go at it here. Got a soft spot for the guy.
Yeah, so there are some pretty impressive clips of Vermette out there… So what’s the deal with his contract?
I saw something on my way in to give tours this morning that made me want to sob uncontrollably while cursing the RNC. As I was stopped at the stop light in the Exchange St tunnel I noticed the truck that came out of the side tunnel (exit of the bowels of the X) was stacked high with seats…. our seats. They were moving the seats they took out of the arena to a remote storage, I wanted to scream “put my arena back you rat bastages!” Stupid RNC people better not fudge up our X, you hear me RNC people?! You better put it all back in time for Hockey season or … or… ummm… ok, so I don’t know what I’d do, but it’d be bad.
Ok, so I’m losing it, but thats what comes of it still being 78 days till the season starts.
“BTW: proposed trade by Ottawa fans: Look out, they’re trying to get rid of Gerber any way they can. We don’t need him.”
Agree 100%. I said drop Gerber and make it a pick and I’d do it.
To Ottawa: Niklas Backstrom, Mark Parrish, Petr Kalus
To Minnesota: Antoine Vermette, Martin Gerber, Josh Hennessy
I like Vermette, but I wouldn’t be interested in Gerber or Hennessy.
Doesn’t Backstrom have a NTC anyway?
Not this summer, Iggy.
The questions you’d have to ask is: Is Harding ready to be No. 1?
Can we get more for Backstrom?
That deal would be more interesting to me if you throw Foligno in instead of Hennessy.
I think Parrish needs another go at it here.
I agree and I don’t have a soft spot for him (former Husky and all :)). As a DR detractor, I guess I am at the point where I ready to see if this “million shots from the blue line” strategy is going to work.* Since that is the plan, Parrish is a good fit.
* But no, I am not over this team’s C depth issue!
You know, this deal might not be bad at the trade deadline either, depending if the Wild is a playoff contender and if Harding is ready. Gerber and Backstrom are both UFAs. Backstrom’s NTC will not be a problem because it ends in February.
If Vermette is not move but gets a one-year deal in arbitration, the Wild could try to sign him after a trade.
Parrish gets a chance to prove himself again and if it goes as last season, he will be move regardless.
Kalus and Hennessy — they are in the air.
While we are counting down the minutes to the end of the business day, what do you think of this trade proposal by an Ottawa fan on HFboards.com:
To Ottawa: Niklas Backstrom, Mark Parrish, Petr Kalus
To Minnesota: Antoine Vermette, Martin Gerber, Josh Hennessy
Ask yourselves one important question:
If you are Bryan Murray, why in h-e double hockey sticks would you make that trade?
No cap room!!! who is going to protect Gabby,PMB,Bruno and the rest of the light weights
