Gaborik practices, hopes to play on trip (Lemaire has other ideas)
Posted on December 9th, 2008 – 10:30 AMBy Michael Russo
I feel like the incompetent photographer from the awesome mid-90s movie, The Paper. In the movie, the photographer had to shoot a very important perp walk for the front page of her New York tabloid and she barely delivered something usable.
So, yes, I know the above pictures aren’t exactly like the puck on Niklas Backstrom’s paddle captured by Strib photog Carlos Gonzalez last week, but all I had was my Blackberry camera, so it’ll have to do.
Trust me, it’s Marian Gaborik.
Luckily, Star Tribune.com’s Shari Gross was at practice. Here’s a video of Gaborik practicing, plus interviews with Gaborik, Eric Belanger and Jacques Lemaire. My handsome mug even makes a cameo. :)
Wearing a lone light green sweater, Gaborik took part in his first practice since Oct. 13.
He was very cautious, took part in all the non-contact drills and lasted the whole practice. He looked very rusty, which is understandable, and like I said, extremely cautious. Still, Gaborik said he hopes to play on the upcoming three-game trip.
That’d be a massive surprise if that happens. First of all, Lemaire said he’s a long way from playing.
(updated) The Wild says Gaborik will make the trip, but it could only be to practice. There are two practices scheduled — Wednesday in Glendale, Ariz., and Friday in El Segundo, Calif.
Gaborik was clearly happy to be on the ice with his teammates. The last time was Oct. 30, but that was just an optional morning skate and he sustained a setback. He was chirping some of his teammates this morning and was smiling a lot.
Lemaire was less excited. He was in kind of an abrasive mood. He said Gaborik was a long way of playing, said he was rusty and almost had an “I’ll believe it when I see it” attitude. After all, Gaborik’s sustained setbacks before.
Lemaire even sarcastically said, “If we’re not too strict with his defense, we’ll be fine. He’ll be able to get some goals.”
“It’s funny?” Lemaire asked.
I think this was a reference to the list that accompanied my Gaborik story Sunday that speculated on five reasons this Gaborik-Wild relationship has been simmering. One was Jacques Lemaire, the other the Wild’s defense-first system.
By the way, I forgot to mention, defenseman Kurtis Foster took part in his second straight practice but first where he stayed the whole time and did most the drills. He’s still a ways away though, but was wearing a normal maroon-colored defenseman’s jersey.
Lastly, if you didn’t see, David La Vaque wrote a really good talker today about whether hockey coaches like Don Lucia should sway hockey recruits to not play fall sports like football. It’s in light of the torn ACL sustained by Edina’s Zach Budish. You’ve got to feel for Budish, who’s future is in flux. I watched him play in a game last season, and the kid is truly a linebacker on skates.
He’s draft eligible this year, but unfortunately his stock will likley fall because of the injury.
That’s it from here. I’ll talk to you after tomorrow afternoon’s practice in Arizona, and remember, Russo Radio on KSTP at 6 p.m. CT.
464 Responses to "Gaborik practices, hopes to play on trip (Lemaire has other ideas)"
So was he playing NHL on his xbox or anything?
I hope this means he really is getting closer to playing. Is it wrong, though, if the skeptic in me fears he’s doing just enough to go on the warm weather trip.
Just what the Wild needs. Let Gaby practice for a day or two and send him right out there against the League to test that shredded weiner. Don’t let himself work into it gradually for a week to 10 days, throw him right out there.
Also, read the article on Lucia “suggesting” that his recruits don’t play football. I’m hoping the kids and their families are strong enough to make the decision on their own.
Who’s Gaborik? Did DR finally trade a defenseman for a center?
I posted this at the last of the last thread but as it seems to have relevancy to this thread I copied it here.
Deep Breath says:
December 9th, 2008 at 8:52 am
I’ve been able to watch Teemu a fair little bit and despite being, what, 45 years old, he is still one of the premier snipers in the League.
Finn - is that enough explanation?
As for you Gaborik scenario - see my fears above (last thread). I say ship him for as best as you can get - should be pretty good given that there will be sellers and he’d been playing well in the scenario.
Gaborik in on Thursday? HA! not likely. Though, if he is ‘healed’ but not in ‘game shape’ I could see JL using him here and there just to try to make space for the Bruno-Mittens-Koivu line. Coach 99 would have to decide who to worry about matching his lines to because even slow, Gaborik would command some attention.
He’s been strengthening his groin driving the ‘Monza’ circuit… 
Goody:
Gaby might not be game shape ready to play on the top 2 lines but he surely can play 4th line minutes with center/Boogie and move Burns back to D.
On Lucia, most of the current NHL players recommend playing other sports along with hockey. I don’t know about football, though, but baseball should be okay.
Talking about football, did you read Fox apologizing for an oopsie after the Vikings game?
If rushing Gaby back means Ingelwood gets put back on the blueline, I am all for it.
sunshine, yeah, that’s what I mean. I think he’s dangerous enough (even if he’s slow) to force Coach #99 to play at least some of his defensive players against Gaborik. On a line with Boogaard (and Pouliot maybe) is a good idea.
Uh, I saw the video. Visanthe has nothing to apologize for 
who is this Gaborik guy? is he a new guy out of Houston?
good…let’s get a few games under his belt and then trade him away.
Visanthe has nothing to apologize for
Er… that statement is just a little too creepy there, DB…
Let Gaby practice for a day or two and send him right out there against the League to test that shredded weiner. Don’t let himself work into it gradually for a week to 10 days, throw him right out there.
I wholeheartedly disagree with this DB. Why would you want to risk him getting hurt yet again? If he breaks his peepee again he will likely be out for antother 20- 30 games. That would hurt his stock even more than it is already. If the Wild want to get anything other than the cliched ‘bag-o-pucks’ for him, then they better make sure he is fit as a fiddle before playing again.
So just out of curiosity, how many games do you think Gaborik will need to play to pique the interest of other GMs? 5? 10? 20?
Uh, I saw the video. Visanthe has nothing to apologize for
You got my attention… can I get a link to the video?
15-20 games, I would think. Enough to show that he’s healthy and back to his old self (speed, timing, and shooting).
how many games do you think Gaborik will need to play to pique the interest of other GMs? 5? 10? 20?
82.
Austin: I thought the sarcasm in my post at 10:38 was obvious. My bad. I also do think it is a little more than foolish to get Gaby back on the ice after only a couple of practices, if that is, in fact, what happens.
Who’s to say Gabby hasn’t been getting bagged the last few weeks getting himself in game shape?
Puter: Russo, for one….
Austin: Can’t link uop with youtube from here, but go to http://www.deadspin.com and you will find some stills.
Sorry DB, it’s hard to pick that up through the series of tubes. My internets tubes must be clogged… anyone got a lottery ball?
good…let’s get a few games under his belt and then trade him away
But you don’t know what the offers are or if there will be any at all 
6GS:
There will be offers. They just won’t be good offers.
Austin: Can’t link uop with youtube from here, but go to http://www.deadspin.com and you will find some stills.
Thanks DB, that is hilarious! I saw a similar incident once on youtube where a woman was interviewing a guy in the locker room and there was a huge hunk of man meat right over her shoulder. Hilarious.
Just so we’re clear: there’s no good option for how to handle Gaborik at this point. If you play him you might increase his trade value, but you also run the risk of shredding his weiner again. If you don’t, then you limit his trade value.
FWIW, I think you HAVE to play him. But I’m going to be terrified every time he takes the ice in the Wild jersey (practice or otherwise) until we do dump his sorry butt.
But I’m going to be terrified every time he takes the ice in the Wild jersey (practice or otherwise) until we do dump his sorry butt.
Or goes anywhere near a Hacky Sack game 
Moneybags is coming back on the ice, huh? Wow. Good for him. A real stellar effort put forth for him.
Goody. I would say he needs 10 to get some interested, 20 to get the momentum going, maybe 25 to create a real fervor.
And he needs to produce in those games too, not just be out there.
I can’t see UM playing on the fourth line. Too much of a liability defensively for JL to let him try to skate against the top guys on the other side… maybe third line? Maybe with Bela?
I don’t know about this whole thing. Seems like a big joke at this point. What was it, a week ago he wasn’t even skating, now all of a sudden he’s in practice and we are told he could be activated Thursday? What happened to not rushing it?
There will be offers. They just won’t be good offers.
Then DR should keep him, just like he did this summer and in September. Right?
Of course you have to play him and pray that he doesn’t overextend reaching for a loose puck or an outlet pass. That’s all that is left at this point and then you have to hope there are some willing buyers March 4. At this point, though, I think expectations on his trade value need to be severly tempered. But, who knows. Desparation makes people do things they normally wouldn’t do.
If the doctors and trainers think he is 100% ready to practice with the team, then he is. Its a matter of getting him in game shape. The only way to get him in game shape is to slowly ease him into the game.
You would have to think that in the last week or so, they have been skating him to get him ready for practices. The trainers and medical staff would likely not allow him to skate once since his setback and then allow him to skate with the team.
DR can’t keep him beyond June 30th. DR has to move him even if its for a 7th round pick.
Off-topic here a bit, but if you want to give Mikko a little love, here you go:
http://www.sportsfanlive.com/web/poll?pollId=6836333
Maybe maybe part of the original trade was for Gaby to play 5-10-15 games to show that he is healthy.
also, the longer into the season we go, the smaller his cap hit is for this season to whomever would be interested in trading for him.
It’s easier to take a chance on an injury-prone semi-sniper UFA for $3M than $6M.
DR can’t keep him beyond June 30th.
Maybe he will get a “vibe” that he can sign him if he does not trade his rights?
At this point, though, I think expectations on his trade value need to be severly tempered.
Tempered from what? According to DR’s defenders, I thought all we could get this summer was a bag of pucks and a 3rd liner?
OK, I will stop now.
[…] Russo’s Rants – […]
don’t know if this was posted or not, but apparently Vrbata’s cap hit comes OFF the Bolts’ ledger.
don’t know if this was posted or not, but apparently Vrbata’s cap hit comes OFF the Bolts’ ledger.
Would that put them in the shredded wiener collection contest?
Ya know, because if there is one thing the Bolts need… it’s more offense and less defense.
“At this point, though, I think expectations on his trade value need to be severly tempered. But, who knows. Desparation makes people do things they normally wouldn’t do.”
DB, couldn’t agree more. A trade is the only remaining option for the Wild IMO. Any hope of him re-signing is long dead and the risk of Gabby going ‘Rolston’ on the Wild would be a real back breaker for the team and Doug won’t/can’t let happen.
Re: trade value. I am managing my expectations on what I think the team will get in trade. It won’t be close to what Gabby was worth this past off-season.
I hope I’m wrong and there’s a team willing to pay top 10 player money to a player who plays 70% of the games.
(please don’t pull a stat showing what Gaborik has played per season the last 5-6 years to prove that the number is closer to 72.7%)
NiNY - that makes no sense even if he comes back to TB next year as this year’s cap hit should still count. Do you have a link for this?
Gho$t’s trade value is significantly less than his expected UFA trade value.
The best scenario is for him to be a ‘rental’. LA won’t trade for him ‘cuz they think he’ll sign there in the off season.
Same for Vancouver.
Ottawa might deal for him…Montreal is probably the best bet now though.
Best DR can hope for now is a prospect and a pick. Teams getting rental players typically do not give up contributing players.
I meant UFA contract value.
Actually Puterschmidt, its about 77% over the past 4 seasons according to my calculation. Math is not my stron suit, but I think I got it right
Neither is spelling for that matter apparently.
I don’t see his value going up much. I don’t care if he plays well. We know he can play well. We also know that he can’t play consistently. I’m with KiPA when I think that he would need to play 82 to see his value rise.
How is Gaborik’s value going to go up if he plays well in 15 or 20 games? If I were a GM, that would prove absolutely nothing to me. Maybe I’m more oblivious than most, but I’ve never been able to tell when Mary’s groin is about to go. This is what people want to know. When is the next injury?
Melrose going off on the Lightning, and sort of Len Barrie: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=259045&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_nhl
Thanks KiPA - I still don’t understand how this works as it seems to run counter to the salary cap structure established post lockout. I think I will email a question to the Don if nothing emerges latter this week.
Melrose going off on the Lightning, and sort of Len Barrie: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=259045&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_nhl
Thanks Kev, that is good stuff. You gotta love Barry.
Oh yeah. Some of those gems were nice and juicy.
If the last three years has taught us anything, Gaborik seems to not get injured and miss games in the second half of the season.
So if he can stay healthy for at least 20 games and stays true to the past, his trade value does go up from nil (now) to something (after 20 games).
LOL Buddha, I was just looking at my FH stuff and setting my rosters and going, “How the hell is Manny Legace on my roster???”
I have the dumb today.
On the Vrbata issue: If they loan him to a Czech team a la that Devils Russian player earlier this year, the cap hit is removed, right?
Hey Buddha, if you are out there, I just made you a trade offer in the Russooville hockey league.
I will look at it ATX.
Ms. C. I did the same thing…
I bet he plays on Thursday and gets a point….any takers?
also, the longer into the season we go, the smaller his cap hit is for this season to whomever would be interested in trading for him.
It’s easier to take a chance on an injury-prone semi-sniper UFA for $3M than $6M.
Thank you, Nick! Glad someone gets it.
Gaborik’s light green sweater signifies no-to-light checking. So, he might be a little further off than I would like.
I’ll take that bet Backs.
sunshine says:
December 9th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
If the last three years has taught us anything, Gaborik seems to not get injured and miss games in the second half of the season.
Kind of makes you go “Hmmm… maybe Gaborik’s off-season shouldn’t be quite so ‘off’.”
Trade accepted ATX… now all we need is KiPA to approve it.
sunshine, but then when you’ve got a $7mil guy you want to trade (regardless of injury status) the last thing you want is your 6′7″ 270 lb bruiser taking him to the wall in practice.
Quick fantasy hockey Q… On the main league page where it says “Moves”, is that how many moves we have made, or is that how many we have left? Kevin, I know we have a limit of 30, and I have been going a little crazy with the add drops.
Anyone know if they can use stem cells to grow a new groin?
I just know that they banned the research here in the US, but maybe in Slovakia?
MuN - you can’t draw that conclusion - you don’t know what the offers were this summer or in September.
Sweetness Buddha. Thanks, I needed the D-man after picking up Mats at Center!
Maybe they could let UM wear that light green in the games too????
You picked up Sundin?
Thats a gamble. Wow. Word is nothing out of him on a decision until Xmas, figure a week after before he is game ready, and then awhile before he turns it back on, no?
It’s moves you’ve made.
Gaborik’s light green sweater signifies no-to-light checking
i thought we wore that shade at every practice
The Wild practice sweaters are green so I didn’t quite see the significance of the mentioned color sweater in Russo’s post. I was reading the Pio and Shipley just clarified it.
Some teams use yellow or some other color that is different from their usual practice sweaters to denote no-checking.
Put one of those “STOP” patches on the back of his jersey like the little kids have…
Maybe they could let UM wear that light green in the games too?
Don’t give the idea to GB, he would run with it to make the game higher scoring! You can’t touch “star” players, they get unimpeded reign of the ice!
Thanks kev!
That 6GS post at 12:48 is me, sunshine and not 6GS. Sorry.
Buddha, apparently he wants to make a decision by the 16th. I am just crossing my fingers that he actually does decide then. He definitely put down a specific date, I just hope he sticks to it.
The spin from ESPN’s fantasy hockey league on UM (written by roto world):
” No word yet if he was a full participant or limited, but this is his first real sign of progress in almost two months. We wouldn’t expect him to play in a game in the next week or two, but perhaps he can return in the first half of the season.”
I gotta go run some errands. Thanks for the trade Buddha! Later!
That 6GS post at 12:48 is me, sunshine and not 6GS. Sorry.
Everybody knows I don’t know anything about practice sweaters but the Strib IT dudes that have yet to fix this identification problem should be the one’s posting a “sorry” comment.
From the other paper
“We’re going to see how it is tomorrow and take it from there,” Gaborik said. “If everything goes good, hopefully I can play on the trip, but we’ll see.”
“He looked OK,” Lemaire said. “For the first day with us, he was fine. He still has a long ways to go.”
and Goody - not sure if you were directing your post (Deep Breath re Teemu) to me, but i haven’t posted in some time - and certainly not about Sellane.
must be IT?
From the Wild Pondcast: Lemaire said that Gaborik had been skating on his own for the last two days and maybe more early in the mornings. Yesterday, Gaborik asked Lemaire if he could join the team practice today and he said yes as long as Gaborik took himself out of contact situations.
Falness said that Gaborik skated the whole practice and was playing the point on the PP.
Well, there is a reason why a team like the Canuckleheads or LA would pull that trade before taking a run at Gaborik in the off season. That is exclusive bargaining rights. If you Gaby is your priority, and you think you can sign him, you might just want a shot prior to the ‘frenzy’. I wouldn’t be surprised if, because of the injury, Gaby wouldn’t be interested in at least getting some offers prior to free agency.
Of course, Gaby playing and getting into the scoring zone like he did a couple years ago, after the injury, will make his short-term value go up to play-off margin teams… and a team like Montreal that has something extra riding on the cup this year, especially if the cap is expected to get smaller next year. This might be the year to take a shot if you’re in serious cap trouble next season.
Weird things happen at deadline day.
How can he be fine AND have a long way to go?
Awesome to see Gaborik back. Hopefully the set backs don’t happen like we all think they will. I also just wrote a blog about Marian Gaborik’s trade/off-season signing possibilities. Either click on ‘Hockey Rube’ up on Russo’ BlogRoll, or click my link here
http://theandersonblog40.blogspot.com/
have a good one everybody, and thanks to those who go to my Blog and comment
OK, is there any chance of this scenario taking place. Ballgame wants to hold Gaby to the deadline. We assume that is true. But, what if Gaby does come back, plays 20 or so games prior to the break and plays very well and the team is winning. Is there any part of Ballgame’s ego, which is roughly the size of the solar system, which makes him believe that he can get Gaby to sign here for less after the season and keeps him on the roster for a final push towards and into the playoffs? Or, is this relationship so ‘effed up that Ballgame just wants to get Gaby on the ice for a few games to showcase him and then ship him the he11 out of town?
ms.c: timing, conditioning, general game-readiness metrics…
New stuff above including this gem:
Lemaire even sarcastically said, “If we’re not too strict with his defense, we’ll be fine. He’ll be able to get some goals.”
Better watch out, Russo, the Wild seems to be in the mood of banning perceived troublemakers from access these days!
Everyone cast their votes?
This whole situation is sad, in a way, Can you imagine the excitement that would be brewing now through Russoville if Gaby had signed an extension back in September and the team was on the cusp of getting it’s one, true goal scoring threat back after having kept its collective head above water in the division while he was out? Now, we’re hopeful that Gaby can stay healthy long enough and somewhat productive for Ballgame to not get completely bent over the couch in some kind of trade.
Does your press pass include photos Russo? Don’t want you getting in trouble like the blogger in Edmonton…
Buddha: “I’m sure you guys are talking about pirogies and snow….”
I still don’t get it, Nick. Either you’re fine. Which means, you’re fine.
Or you’ve got a ways to go. Which means, you’re not fine.
Keep in mind, I’m a bit short on oxygen due to the head congestion and coughing…
Off to bed for Ms. C.
Take a heavy dose of Thera Flu Hot, ms.c. Works wonders. Or, watch any basketball game, that will put you to sleep in no time
Geez, how did they let him on the ice without first wrapping him in some space age material like Temperpedic foam?
Nice pull from Rounders Nick.
I’ve got so many drugs in me right now, I’m afraid to add anything else or I may grow a tail. Mucinex D, first two z-pack doses, and there’s an inhaler of something or other that I haven’t used yet but probably will shortly. Tired of wheezing. Though a hot drink does sound heavenly even though it’s warmish today. (Hurry up, cold front!!)
Is there any part of Ballgame’s ego, which is roughly the size of the solar system, which makes him believe that he can get Gaby to sign here for less after the season and keeps him on the roster for a final push towards and into the playoffs?
If he gets a “vibe” then yes but seriously I think it might be a good move if you are willing to put some July 1 faith into DR. The best answer to the Wild’s goal scoring problems this year is #10. After that, #9 and #8’s team has a lot of cap space.
it’ll have to due.
Don’t make me go Sunshine on you, Russo. Come on, man.
Those pictures look like some vintage “search for Sasquatch” photos.
As mentioned earlier, the only way out of Gaborikgate is via trade and there’s no doubt his stock has plummeted due to Mari-anne’s inability to stay on the ice. His time with the Wild is cleary over and the FO can’t just let him walk out the door giving everyone the finger. But no matter what, it will be disappointing to see what we finally get in return. Yes, anything is better than nothing…it’s just tough to think about the more ideal scenarios that would have played out this season had he remained healthy.
Man it’s tough to be a MN sports fan.
Ms. C. Warm here too. 18 degrees.
Nick… love that movie. Makes me want to play cards right now.
I think I am just going to go to sleep for a month or two and let the UM stuff settle itself. Someone wake me up when it’s over?
Finn says:
December 9th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
and Goody - not sure if you were directing your post (Deep Breath re Teemu) to me, but i haven’t posted in some time - and certainly not about Sellane.
must be IT?
No IT glitch, I was responding to Deep Breath’s post. Selanne is from Finland is he not? I refering to the fact that two of our top scorers and our backstop are from Finland.
Nighty night, Buddha. See you in about 6 months.
ms.c: for example, I’d probably pass a physical right now. I have no congenital or lingering injuries or maladies.
But I’m a helluva long way from being in “game shape.”
Ah, okay. Thanks Nick for the crayon representation. Maybe my sniffles are making me a little obstinate.
on expectations: keep in mind we’re comparing the return in a trade to the “value” of an expensive, injury-prone 35-goal scorer (per 82-games) who has played 7.69% of the games this season and, oh by the way, DOESN’T WANT TO BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Gaby’s on pace to play 6.3 games this season!
At one point in two games, that’s a pace of 3.15 points - FOR THE WHOLE SEASON!
Sorry, but at this point - and we can argue the merits by which we got to this point all day long - you get him patched up, and trade him for whatever you can and then hope like hell that he shreds his wiener as soon after he gets traded as possible.
no worries…off to bed for you, ms.c!
Okay. I’m in bed. Took the computer. Watching “Whatever, Martha!” where Martha Stewart’s daughter and her friend, Jennifer, watch old Martha Stewart episodes and make fun of them a la MST3k. Pretty funny.
ms. c - I don’t see any alcohol in your treatment… I would recomend a nice snifter full of some decent Cognac. That should do the trick.
Oh, I see UM is finally back in practice. I’ve decided I’m not going to speculate until he finally plays again for the sake of sanity for all of us on here. But I pretty much second MuN’s opinions and not DB’s.
I think NiNY is correct.
It would be hard to sit on Gabby for any length of time if I was in DR’s position.
If I was in that position, I would want to trade him for any reasonable offer that would improve my team … and sooner than later.
If Gabby had acted like he wanted to be here for his career, then the situation would be different for me. His actions of staying away from the team have soured me.
With the current economic situation, Gabby might regret lots of things before this is all done.
I’m sure Dallas would trade Avery for Gaborick.
I think Redden from the Rangers would be a good trade for a solid Defenseman.
He’s a wuss. Dump him somewhere, anywhere. I don’t care if it is for a 4th round prospect. He is a distraction this team does not need right now. They have enough issues w/out Shirley. JL has had enough from Shirley. So have a lot of the fans. He could get injured on his second shift back, or in his 35th game. Thats the main problem in keeping him. He is one stride or one bad pass away from point zero (shredded Ball-Park) all over again.
I should have asked the NP today what alcohol I can have with my albuterol and zithro and Mucinex… Especially after she asked if I use drugs or alcohol and I said, “Nah, not really.” Easier than saying, “oh, sometimes after novice league, or if the Wild are really losing badly, or if someone puts a pitcher of margaritas in front of me…”
or if someone puts a pitcher of margaritas in front of me
Okay, that was funny.
Dallas wins hands down in a trade an Avery-Gaborik trade. They get rid of a troublemaker and $15 million for 4 years while they take on one-year of less than $6.33 cap hit.
DR would be fired immediately. Not only that but we have yet to play one game against the Flames. We will be seeing Phaneuf and Avery go at 6 + times at least, right?
I blog about the wild all day everyday because I am a loser. Does anyone care what I say? Only people as lame as I am. Maybe someday I’ll have tangible friends that I can converse with. Oh my mom said my hot pocket is ready. I’ll post some more useless crap when I’m done eating.
PS. I jump on and off the bandwagon everyday. That way I am never wrong.
Russo, your articles and posts are very interesting and inform wild fans of alot of the behind the scenes activities. The blog on the otherhand is a group a dolts that literally do this all day everyday and post needless and worthless comments. Enough is enough, I think Arbys is hiring for the habitual bloggers.
Get Gaborik healthy, play him for trade purposes. That should be the Wild’s plan right now. Then find some FA that are not dumpster picks in July.
Alright, Kevin laughed at my joke!
Ms.C, my father’s remedy was blackberry brandy and all the covers you can put on yourself–but that never worked. All I can say is that in college we took far more interesting drugs than what you are taking.
Interesting article on TSN about the cap where the issue, according to the article, is the 2010-11 season and therefore why expensive, long-term contracts are a problem. Supposedly the cap will only move $1-2M next year but could make a more significant move the following year. The article comments that this will hurt this year’s free agent crop including our own–Gaby.
So there is weeks of speculation as to the extent of the shredding and then his BFF/sub-agent in training gets banned from the clubhouse. I have yet to read any speculation thus far of the timing of this on ice appearance.
Imagine how that looked to owners and GM’s around the league that someone so close to this shining star is a pain in the rear and will more than likely be included in the deal. I mean he drives his girlfriend to and from the games for the love of …
So GM’s are concerned about his durability. He says I am just playing it safe…talk to me this summer. Maybe he thinks this doesn’t affect his value. But start bringing trouble off the ice and the stock starts to fall. So I’m thinking Ron told him he better lace up!
Thoughts.
I know but I’m a terrible hypochondriac, Wood. I’ll freak myself out over nothing.
But the brandy sounds good. Maybe I’ll make some pomegranate Crystal Lite. Party like a rock star.
That a girl ms. c!
Not that I would ever suggest to mix alcohol and medicine but of course the NP will not tell you, you can cure yourself then she would be out of a job….
Don’t ever confuse brandy with cognac. There are very few brandies that will be as smooth as a real cognac. Now it will set you back some more $ but remember it is for your health.
I do not like hot pockets.
ok no thoughts on the timing. Well then Ms. C, my past experience, blackberry brandy will cure all of your ills. I too don’t know how it will mix with medication so caution should be exercised and graduated doses recommended.
Falness says Gaby IS going on the trip. Crazy.
Oh, now Russo says it.
Ashes- I think there was no speculation on on ice date because well… we really have no idea what the hell is going on anymore. First he only going to be out a few games, then he is praticing, then he is skating only by himself, then he is not skating, then not skating, but practicing, now he is going on the trip, but only to practice…
Tomorrow it could be he is too hurt to skate again.
Who knows. I think we have all started just taking a whenever he gets here, he gets here type of approach.
There’s been some talk heating up lately surrounding the Canadian teams needing to make the playoffs in order to remain profitable. The issue at hand is the recent slide the Canadian dollar has had against the already-freefallen US dollar.
Last spring, things were looking up for the Canadian teams, and their P&L sheets had a nicer bottom line that previous years, thanks to a 9% rise in the dollar during 2007, and a continued rise into 2008.
Now that 9% has slipped away, as has all the accumulation during the spring months, and those balance sheets are going to look rather precarious come April, if things hold.
There are some Canadian teams who will need to make the playoffs in order to sustain profitability from ticket, concession, merchandising, and bonus revenue.
Toronto, Ottawa, and Edmonton are the critical 3. All 3 are on the outside looking in. Vancouver’s cap number is so small right now, they could probably afford to miss the playoffs if it didn’t impact their season ticket sales, and Calgary looks to be somewhat safe at the moment. Only Montreal is in a very good position - at the top of the conference, and looking to go a long ways into the post season, packed house and stellar merchandising sales due to the anniversary.
Could be a story to watch as some GM’s get desperate to make the playoffs for profitability’s sake.
Buddha- I understand the day to day frustration of the fans and those that contribute here, but he knows how he is feeling. Is his agent able to talk to other team about him? I can’t think of anything that would stop them. I guess I am just think of the favre cell phone incident. But I digress, so Salcer is out there shopping the Ghost and saying he is fine…just playing it safe..blah, blah, blah. This keeps his player off the ice and less apt to be hurt. It hurts the wilds value because he is seen as hurt, but it doesn’t really affect his value as much in the summer. Now with the Tobin Wright situation it is a whole new ballgame as far as off ice speculation and character if they are as reported BFF. Maybe I am putting to much into it. Just appears miraculously cured!
I wonder where Gaborik will finish the season. It’s matter of time before Risebrough trades him.
I just hope gabby can play. It will open up the offense and AMA line can go at it again.
Canadian dollar currently trading at 79.17 cents per USD. Big slide.
Kevin laughed at my joke!
Or I’m just in a bad enough mood I’m forcefully finding humor anywhere I can.
(No, actually it was funny.)
Oooh, I see updated All-Star voting.
Hey- the big thrill of the day is a video of …Russo. Next, he will show up on the Macy’s “do you believe” campaign. The other Don will be truly humbled….
On a side note, my mom even knows who Mikko is. Very cool.
Ashes- Other teams in the NHL are not allowed to talk to Salcer about Moneybags, and I doubt they would want to. With all of the trouble owbers have been in, i don’t think they want to be anywhere near this situation with as press as it gets.
The whole thing has been handled with a level of incompetence seen only on Wall Street (by both sides). I for one, am ready to give up on the whole thing.
owbers = owners
I’m excited to see Gaborik practice! He clearly still needs time, but perhaps he will be back for a couple months before the trade deadline.
Keep in mind that when healthy this guy is a premiere talent in this league and he is entering his prime. He will be playing for a new contract. This could be a huge boost for the Wild.
I wonder how many people that want to trade #10 for a used puck bag will be begging to keep him by the time March rolls around?
AiH-
Not me. I can guarantee that 100%. He lost his respect from me long ago. He could come back on Thursday, play every game from now until the end of time, and become the next 200 point scorer in the NHL, and I still wouldn’t want him on the team.
He is also a premiere enigma Aaron.
I’m thinkin the only thing more worthless than my Mitchell jersey is a #10.
He actually gets on the ice and we’re shredding him worse than his weiner.
Just goes to show you…never, ever draft a Sally.
Gaby’s trade value was at it’s highest July 1 of last summer. That is because nearly every team had the cap room to acquire a 7 million dollar guy. By late August, early September, most teams had their roster set. Most teams were close to the cap (3.5 mil or less under). At least the competitive teams, which would be the ones interested in acquiring Gaby in the last year of his contract. If you’re Tampa Bay or L.A., do you really want to give up much for Gaby so you can have him for a year? It’s not going to be worth it. If you’re Montreal, or New Jersey, or the Rangers, you want Gaby but you have little to no cap room in September so any salary you take on you will have to dump a nearly equal amount. Sure the Habs would have loved Gaby in late August, but not if they had to trade us Koivu (4.7) Plekanic (1.6) and another fourth liner. Are the Rangers going to give us Gomez or Drury for Gaby? Me no thinks so. My point is, by the beginning of the season, factoring in everything, Riser only had about 5 or 6 teams he could deal with. That limits what Doug can do, as well as drives the bidding war down. As someone pointed out in an earlier post, as the season goes along, more and more teams can afford Gaby’s prorated cap hit. Some of these teams(solid playoff teams) might give up alot to give them that extra shot. But then, if you’re Riser, you may potentially run into a whole new set of problems. What if he gets hurt. Or what if the team is doing really well, Gaby is racking up points, it’s mid February and you have a team that looks like it could make a deep playoff run? Can you trade one of your star players at that point, even if it appears he will walk July 1? That’s a hard sell to alot of fans who would sell their first born for a chance at hoisting the cup. Dougs in a pickle. It might be his own fault, it might not. I just don’t have the inside info to make that call right now. We may never know.
I saw The Paper too! On a first date…I preferred the movie.
One last thing. I just watched the Gaby video from today. It takes place in the Wild locker room. I can see Russo smiling in the backround. I can’t tell if Michael is wearing any pants. Is he trying to one up Shiancoe?
[…] Russo’s Rants – […]
So when we drafted Matt Kassian were we picturing him to turn out like this Lucic dude out in Boston? A tough s.o.b. that can score a goal once in a while?
Aaron, I agree with you a bit too. Gabby isn’t nearly as bad as these people/posters like to think.
Everyone should remember that this “game” is a business too. I have been to a number of practices at parade with Gabby there and without. To be honest Gabby isn’t as bad for the team as most of you think either. These players are “kids” and are usually just goofing off during practice (Gabby included). They stand around during a drill and yap the whole time smiling. Have some flipping humanity you idiots!
Fans shouldn’t be listened to and thank gorsh they aren’t. You sniveling fans almost act like someone should feel sorry for you! Get over yourselves.
Me thinks Kai needs a hot pocket, no?
I don’t eat that crap.
Michael up North says:
>>Thank you, Nick! Glad someone gets it.<<
It’s that MPA education!
Anyone catch the latest Puck Daddy post? several good links…
Eklund apparently posted a rumor about the Plyers claiming Chris Gratton of waivers… turns out his source - literally now - was a gamer site where players are allowed to post what they are doing in their game…
That guy is a complete tool.
Buddha, like a video game site, where people talk about their video game teams?
Bhudda - Hence the most ridiculous of rumors?
“Koivu leads the team with a plus 5. Guess where that ranks in the NHL…..98th. WOW, there are 97 players in the league that have a better plus minus than the Wild’s best. Not sure what the reason is, but individually the Wild have no real stars.” From Stribmenot on another forum.
Gaby’s trade value was at it’s highest July 1 of last summer.
I have to disagree. A player under contract doesn’t fetch nearly the return as one who is open. First, a UFA is something you just throw dollars at. So regardless of the space all the teams had at that time, they would have had to give up players, prospects, and/or picks to get him, and no GM is going to do that.
Go look it up - how many players have been traded - yes, traded - within the first few days or weeks after July 1?
I would think the sliding Canadian dollar also makes it harder for Canadian teams to compete in the Gaby sweepstakes.
Long-term, I agree, Stoned. That’s the beauty of this: Gaby’s payday, such as it exists anymore, is getting smaller and smaller. Cap’s coming down, dollar/loonie falling…$8M…$7.9…$7.8… tick tick tick, Oscar Meyer…
Dude. Nick. We totally need to start calling Gaborik Oscar now. Not the Meyer part, just Oscar. There are not enough Oscars in the world.
so i just turn on the nux and preds to catch a dogpile at center ice. that cat that IJ wound up on lost another fight. it all started nicol dumping it in and davison being about 3/4 of a second late and just smashing him almost catapulting himself into the bench. the nux announcers couldn’t figure out what the fuss was and hordichuck was taunting the pred’s bench.
tools, every last one of them.
Someone is basing stardom on +/-?
Please tell me I’m still asleep.
KiPA- yeah, like a site where people post what guys they claimed off waivers in their video game…
Ms.C you miss the point entirely. Sure, Koivu is better than his plus minus says, but it is hardly an arbitrary system. Dur!
Deep Breath says:
>>>G*: All I have been trying to get across is that based on Gaby’s history of shredded weiner, the risk of letting him play in the final was too great and that a deal needed to be done prior to the start of the season.<<<
You really don’t get this do you? The only way the human brain would allow you to say, “Sign him long term. The shredded weiner isn’t a risk.” and then turn around and say “Don’t let him play to the high demand period of the season. The shredded weiner is too big of a risk.”, is if you lobotomize the part that controls rational, logical thought.
You are consuming a considerable amount of bandwidth trying to convince the mathematicians on the board that 2+2=5. No matter how hard you try, you are still wrong.
I measured it, it’s 18213 bytes. in that post alone.
And I agree, SotB.
wait, Kai, what is the point?
The Wild should pick me up. My created guy in NHL already has won a Cup, a Calder, a Norris and averages 1.5 points a game…:) Don’t know how to do the smiley face. The Hawks offered me a better deal but I took the hometown discount. DR wouldn’t budge…
Basically, we need #10 back on the ice. Otherwise, we won’t be able to do anything with him except deal with the distraction all year and wave goodbye after the final whistle blows. If we have to deal with the distraction we might as well get some goals out of him and maybe deal him for a bag of pucks when the time is right.
it is hardly an arbitrary system.
Then there’s only seven guys in the league better than Aaron Johnson (+13).
(Johnson, seven points on defense for Chicago.)
You’re right. I have no idea what you point is. But given that you “dur’d” me, I’m gonna assume there’s not much of one.
Well said, Dickie. Well said. Except the bag-o-pucks. We can get more.
I think I missed something on Stoned’s Deep Breath exchange with G*. Where did that come from?
Dammit. Come on Kipper!
What do you suppose would happen to the cost of a Carrera GT if Gaby signed with the Canucks? We can get some satisfaction knowing Demitra is getting clipped. I would imagine this all gets very complicated when a Slovak plays professional sports in North America. You’ve got the Koruna, the Euro, the US and Canadian dollars and you are paying taxes in every state in which you play. You need a good accountant.
I do remember years ago that players with US residences were resistant to getting traded to Canada because of the exchange rate. Some attributed the decline of the Habs dynasty to it.
Nick, with or without Gabby where is this team headed? It isn’t just a gabby issue as you all so love to jump on. Let’s try being a bit more balanced, huh?
Hey, there you go! The Nucks coaches are all over the ref staff again! Big surprise!
Stoned: I am not trying to get across that Ballgame should have sat a healthy Gaby once the season started. I am saying that he should have had him traded by the start of the season. The risk of injury was too great a risk to put on the organization, which we are finding out now. Of course he would never had scratched a healthy Gaby, I am saying he should have made move before the season started to avoid the mess the team is in right now with the situation. And yes, depending upon which school you go to, 2+2 does in fact, equal 5.
+\- is a viable stat. It doesn’t measure how good you are, but instead provides a measure of how sound you play on either, or both ends of the ice, in comparison to your team’s production.
For example, a player with a positive rating is on the ice for more goals scored by his team than scored against. While this can be a measure of how good offensively a player is, it’s also an indicator when someone isn’t too good defensively.
Looking at the league leaders in that category, and those near the bottom, Semin, Gagne, and Malkin lead. All get an above-average amount of ice time, and all put up stellar points. This shows, when they’re on the ice, they’re scoring more than their being scored against.
On the bottom, are Jovanovski, Kalinin, and Brind-Amour. Playing a lot of minutes, and not a lot of offensive production to offset their contributions. In other words, liabilities.
Oh, and the dur was for the simple fact that you dismiss +/- so readily.
Also, when I refer to a “deal”, I mean a deal that sent Gaby to another team since it was obvious to everyone, except Ballgame apparently, that Gaby/Salcer had no intention of resigning here.
Hah, that Miller-GoFYourself thing is pretty funny. Who the hell says that to Crunchy???
Kai: I have no idea what you’re talking about, frankly. No one - and I mean no one - here thinks this team’s problems is solved by Gaborik coming back whether it’s to play with the Wild or to audition to be traded.
Gaby’s just the lamb right now because his situation makes him look like a greedy POS.
If you’re on some kind of a “this team sucks, management sucks, we’re all lemmings for drinking the kool-aid” kick then own up to it and lets move on.
@ Ms.C
Whoa, DB. Trade a player because he might get an injury and reduce his trade value?
If that’s the prudent thing to do, I’ll pee in the outlet.
Mr. Dunn,
DB has been trying to convince me that Smug is incompetent because he doesn’t have metaphysical powers of foresight. It goes back awhile. I have a hard time letting go when someone is taking a leak on my shoes and trying to convince me it is an April shower.
Where did that come from?
it started about 4 or 5 blogs ago. deep breath is on a filabuster that strong thurmond would admire.
that’s strom thurmond
Nick, you can’t be very bright when it comes to connecting dots. It’s simple really and spelled out for you.
Most here are on a Gabby hating binge. I would even say for no good reason! You may have a few smaller points to make, but really the bias clouds all that up. Simply put, it wreaks. What will happen will happen. With Gabby here or not, he is still the best thing we have in many regards - go figure.
MuNo: With a player that has indicated he no longer wants to be here; whom has a history of shredded weiner and with what offensive assets were allowed to walk out the door last year with ziltch coming back in return, yes, the risk to the franchise was too great and now we are seeing that. Folks seem to think this is hindsight, but once again, this exact scenario was played out on this blog 3 months ago, which makes the argument today hardly hindsight.
Also, with JL quoted by the AP that Gaby will not play on this road trip, why would they send Kolanos down so quickly?
burrows just jumped off a trampolin to hit dumont in the head and these tools on the telecast weren’t quite sure he left his feet. WTF are they watching? i never thought i’d find more homers than D & D.
at least arnott jumped him unlike anyone in Iron range red
Yeah, I went back and checked it out.
Strom Thurmond… interesting pull…
Well everybody is pretty smart in hindight.
“With a player that has indicated he no longer wants to be here.” Yet, the whole situation has been exacerbated by both sides.
vancouver ends up with a 5 minute powerplay out of it. i guess being a turtling sissy pays.
I’m watching it too GreenStar.
Whoops, a couple mins late with the hindsight comment. I’ll stand behind it. I didn’t hear an overwhelming trade #10 now clamoring back 3 months ago. Same as I never heard a clamoring sign him now when it came to Rolston at any point last year. What other offensive assets now? Pavol? Branko? I didn’t hear much of anything there…
I do hear a clamoring of sign Backs now… right now. I will sign up for that.
the seeing others email isn’t just an IE thing, i just got it with safari
Saw that play as well G*. No trouble figuring out why the Nucks are hated as much as they are.
Out of anybody here, I don’t think NiNY could be classified as a Gabby hater. He has always seemed to be more of a moderate kool aid drinker.
Kai: sorry, I’m still not sure what your platform is. Honestly, why don’t you just tell everyone here what your deal is so we can get back to our lives. Or are you only here to insult people? You want people here to consider your points, start acting like a grown up.
And MuN: your plus/minus 101 came across as condescending…is that what you intended?
the nux must have changed their announcers because in years past, i used to go to bed to the game. i wouldn’t have with these clowns
Dickie: The exact scenario with Gaby getting hurt and leaving the Wild organization p!ssing into the wind was discussed at length back in August and September. If talking about it 3 months prior to it actually happening, you need to put down the Normandale dictionary and get a normal one.
Also, Dickie, with a team as offensively impotent (don’t even like to type that word) such as the Wild sees offensive players like Huggy, Demo and Parrish walk away, or even paid to walk away, with ziltch in return, it is going to hurt the franchise.
Killed it!!! Frig VAN. I don’t hate ‘em, but I have a few complaints.
Kai, most aren’t on a hating binge. We’re picking on him because we know he’s going to be traded, we know he’s not what the team needs, and we know we’ll end up with something new to complain about in return.
However the public perception isn’t good for him. Many fans have come to the conclusion he doesn’t want to play here, and whether that’s valid or not - it affects their feelings toward him. He’s never come out and said it, but everyone is “reading between the lines” on it, and making some assumptions. Only he and his agent know for sure.
And the word you were looking for is “reeks”, not “wreaks”.
————
DB: He never said that. That is an interpretation of him not signing.
Look, you’re not going to convince me. You don’t like DR, you don’t agree with what he’s done, and you love to criticize the things he’s done badly, as if it’s the end of the world.
Now you want everyone to notice how he’s screwed up “again”, because he didn’t do what you would have wanted done.
Good or bad, GM’s all make mistakes. If you just wanna jump on the “I Hate Doug” bandwagon, fine. But stop for a minute and recognize he’s also the guy who drafted Gaborik, Burns, Koivu, Bouchard, Boogaard, O’Sullivan, Schultz, Sheppard, Gillies, and more. How many of those moves were bad? How many are good?
You’re trying to convince people that the guy is plain evil and needs to go because he’s an idiot and is running the team into the ground. Well, there’s 6000 people on the season ticket waiting list, 325+ consecutive sellouts, top 5 in merchandising dollars for the 7th straight year, and the team is 6 games above .500.
If we were Atlanta, I’d share your sentiments… but we’re not.
“With Gabby here or not, he is still the best thing we have in many regards”
One word: Backstrom.
As for +/-. While it does have it’s worth, it is a very skewed stat, and just about anyone in or around the NHL would tell you the same thing. Of course Malkin is going to have a higher +/- than say Shep. Shep plays on a checking line, against the other team’s best players for 99% of his shifts. His job, if he does it right, is to keep his +/- from going too far negative.
I would say a comparison of +/- at home vs +/- on the road would tell you more about a player, since at home, the coach has a better chance to get the match ups they want.
+/- depends too much on what line you play on, who your teammates are, and has a fair amount of luck invovled as well.
Like I said, it is not a completely useless stat, but is close to the bottom of the barrel.
How in the world did the +/- thing come across as condescending? I didn’t find it to be so at all. NiNY, if you’ve missed the point you didn’t read and I fear you may not get the point - ever. Seriously, it’s all there.
Dickie: To be honest, I’m not sure why people spew the Gaby hatred as much as they do. I spose you can be upset because he shredded the weiner playing hackysack. But for him to maybe want to play for another team, or a different coach or for whatever reason he has, I don’t think I’m breaking any ground here, but that is a right of a player that reaches the level of unrestricted free agency.
And MuN: your plus/minus 101 came across as condescending…is that what you intended? Nick, no.. But so many people just laugh the stat off like it’s totally meaningless.
I had a whole thing but I’m just not gonna bother. I get the sense it’s not worth my precious, sniveling time.
This Nucks/Preds game is pretty good stuff.
DB: I did not say sit him on the bench. The percentages favor letting him play to the deadline.
Michael up North:
Please reach over and try and slap some sense into DB. I have tried, Lord knows I have tried in so many ways, to help him come to the realization that his argument defies natural laws of logic. He is now your problem, should you choose to accept the mission.
I think I will go chew on some aluminum beer cans.
From a local channel in Mankato:
“Minnesota Wild fans have been anticipating the return of Marion Gaborik and hopefully the wait is just about over.”
Who are these fans that are anticipating his return? I think I have met far more people that just want him gone so the team can move on… no?
MuN - Hence why the fans don’t get to make decisions. Bhudda, I said in many regards. No one would ever put Gabby in net. Actually, the only other guy would be Josh. Also, how do you compare Shep and Malkin? They aren’t even close even if Shep played on a different line.
lol thanks, SotB! Like I wanted it :/
MuN: glad to hear that. The thing with +/- is that I don’t think it’s meaningful unless you’re comparing players that get the same kind of minutes in all situations.
If you’re looking at one guy that only gets mid-game regular strength minutes versus a guy that gets a lot of time, say at the end of a game protecting a lead (when you’re probably not going to score a lot but when you could get score on) then it’s not a very fair comparison IMO.
Ms.C - The game has been fun to watch!
DB, I’m not willing to get into the filibuster with you but I don’t believe that there was a consensus voice saying trade Gabby back then because he is injurty prone. Sure, it was an issue that was brought up, rightfully so but many issues were brought up. If he was leading the league in scoring right now I’m sure you wouldn’t be bringing the injury issue up right now. The beauty of hindsight.
And what is the deal with the Normandale dictionary comment? Did they kick you out of school or something and you are carrying a grudge? In hindsight, maybe you shouldn’t have gone there… Normandale means nothing to me. Maybe you should go flood the yard and chill out a little. Take a deep breath or something.
I must have missed the memo that Parrish was an “offensive talent”. So was Foy an “offensive talent” too? Fridge? I would just like to see what we are working with in your dictionary for “offensive talent”…
Let’s hope he plays well and gives us a chance to get something in return when we trade the little girl.
another dogpile but not much for fighting. shouldn’t be surprised since the nux don’t fight they turtle
MuNo: I have always stated that the Wild have done a fantastic job of drafting in the first round (save the 2004 debacle and we’ll wait and see on Pooh Bah). Just wish Ballgame would have a plan. First, we needed to let the kids play, which was obvious since the Wild was an expansion team. Then, after a couple of years, we had to get tougher so we could compete with the likes of Anaheim. So, bring in the likes of Voros, Fridge, Simon, etc. That lasted a year. Then we had to see if the kids could play again and then we had to be a more mobile team that could move the puck. Sit down with JL, figure out what kind of player he wants, and which ones he doesn’t (Demo, Parrish, etc) and build a team and an identity around that. Right now it seems that the Wild are content on relying waaayyy too much on Backstop, trying to win every game 2-1. To his credit, Backstop has been what, one of the top 2 or 3 goalies in the League this year? But, it has also come at the expense of the 3rd easiest schedule in the League to this point. Take a look at what the Wild have left. It isn’t going to get any easier.
Kai… just for the record, I don;t hate Moneybags, I just don’t respect him. The line he had in the past “If they would just give me what I want, we wouldn’t have to talk about it anymore.”
That’s what did it for me. The rest of me picking on him stems from that. I feel that statement alone shows he has a bad attitude, is in the game for the wrong reason, and thinks more of himself than he thinks of this team, or any other team he may play for.
It’s a simple respect thing. I am an old school hockey fan. Team first, play hurt, have some grit. He has none of that. Ability to score, sure. I think his stats are inflated by the fact that he was the center of the offense for 7 years, and he was relied upon to score the goals.
I don’t ahte the guy. Just feel he has a big ego, has no true desire to be a hockey player so much as he wants to be famous and make a mint.
Kai, you’re bitchin’ at Nick because he’s tossed out a few good quips about Gaborik, and then you say “hence the fans don’t get to make decisions” about him. Sure they do. They can say whatever they want, or they can decide not to buy a ticket and go to a game, or not to buy a sweater. They can think the guy is a tool for how he’s handled himself. That’s all well within their right, but it’s certainly not fair of you to say that, then criticize someone for doing that, even in the jovial manner it’s done.
Simply put, you just negated your argument.
Kai: that’s a sweet Napoleon complex you’ve got there, eh? The thing is: I don’t care whether or not you think I’m stupid. Not one bit. Your opinion of me has no bearing on my life. So, if you think you have a point that we should consider THEN MAKE IT. Otherwise, you’ve got zero currency with the attitude.
Though I have to say, I’m curious why you two would be so defensive of the +/- stat. All I said was that +/- isn’t a good judge of stardom (no stat is really… stardom is pretty subjective). Suddenly I’m a stat basher? Weird.
But while I’m on it, the fact that a cherry picking rock star like Kolanos can lead a team like the Aeros with +7 pretty much says it all about +/-. It’s an interesting stat but in a vacuum, utterly useless. It needs a ton of context to avoid misinterpretation.
Dickie: For a team that has so little scoring ability, yes, Parrish, Demo and Huggy were offensive assets. Also, to bring something up and then have it happen 3 months later, and then talking about it, that is not hindsight. This exact scenario was played out and now the Ballgame apologists don’t like it.
tom preissing 06-07 ottawa
GP 80
G 7
A 31
Pts 38
+/- +40
end of discussion
As for why people spew what they spew, I’m past even wondering or caring. People are fickle, as is evidenced here in Russoville every single day. Big highs and lows over the course of the season, one month we are winning the Cup, the next we aren’t going to win a game.
It’s only human nature for some to rail against a player who is considering leaving. There is a loyalty factor that some are overly sensitive to. That’s why they boo returning players even in cases where there really is no reason to hate the player who is only operating in his own best interest. To each their own. I could care less. So I’m not sure why you are being honest with me and telling me you cannot understand the Gabby hatred. I don’t really care.
I believe where that came from is when I said NiNY is a moderate Kool Aid drinker who really can’t be the target of redress by Gabby defenders against the Gabby haters. Which seemed to be where Kia was. And I didn’t understand.
Not you, Ms. C.. It was directed openly to the masses.
you’ve got zero currency with the attitude.
That was awesome. That makes me want to have kids just so I can use that line on them when they’re 16.
I am among the masses, MuN. *dramatic gesture*
People have stated that maybe Gaby wants to play in LA. Watching the Kings tonight it is obvious they need goaltending assistance. Any chance of packaging a Gaby/Harding tandem west for players/pick?
Green*, he played with Redden that year, and he does pretty well, but not that well lol!
Nick, I didn’t say you should care. You started caring and that’s why we are where we are. Micheal, sure fans can say what they want. No one said anything about that. The point is they don’t get to make decisions.
“It’s an interesting stat but in a vacuum, utterly useless. It needs a ton of context to avoid misinterpretation.” That is some fine work Ms. Conduct, even though that statement pretty much applies to everything. Pretty much anything in a vacuum is pointless and most things require a great deal of context.
My point DB, is that you are bringing up a point that was brought up 3 months ago. That’s fine. Lots of people said the Wild were doomed and would be horrible and not have a chance to win a game after the FA period, you being what I remember one of the biggest critics. They don’t look too bad now despite the most recent struggles. That didn’t turn out how you thought it would 3 months ago but you aren’t going to talk about that now are you? No, you are going to talk about a scenario brought up 3 months ago out of many scenarios after the scenarios were decided by events that nobody could have predicted with any reliability 3 months ago. I don’t recall you ever saying with any certainty that #10 would pull his lower body playing hacky sack… This wouldn’t even be a conversation piece had that not happened. You’d be off on a rant on some other thing based on whatever hindsight information you had at your disposal.
So apparently Kipper’s rollercoaster hasn’t leveled off yet, eh?
Parrish wasn’t an offensive asset when he was here. Why would he be now? Now that is a no hindsight approach. If he were an asset, he’d be here.
The funny thing is most of the the people railing against Gabby have plenty of tude in their posts. They have a tone.
But before I get into the quick sand that is debate with you DB, I will just have to say, we will have to agree to disagree.
Tungsten filament or mercury electrons in a vacuum isn’t useless.
Never stated the team was going to be horrible. Did state over and over again as to where the goals were going to come from. As of now, the team is 4 games over .500 against the 3rd easiest schedule to this point of the season and has 42 even strength goals in 26 games. While I want to be first in line at the Stanley Cup parade, something tells me they’re maybe a move or seven away from that.
Kai - No, there are plenty of stats out there that explain themselves. Goals, assists, points… TOI, GP… GAA, Save %, GA, Wins…
If a guy finshes the year with 50 goals, we can assume he is a firly good player, regardless of the team he plays on. If a guy finishes with a +25, we need to look at what team he was on, who his line mates were, what line he played on, etc.
There is usually a high level of tude in Russoville regardless of what is being discussed. It is the nature of blogs. Right or wrong.
I’m going to have to get out my Normandale dictionary and see what Tungsten filament and mercury electrons really are. But I’m sure they are very necessary.
Deep: the problem is that no one in their right mind should have expected a Cup from the Wild this season. Looking at their roster when they broke camp, I think
4 games over .500 against the 3rd easiest schedule to this point of the season and has 42 even strength goals in 26 games.
is just about right.
Dickie: Parrish had 35 goals in his two seasons here. I would have to check the numbers but it was probably in the top-5 for that time span, which, yes, would make him an offensive asset.
Scotch tape, in a vaccum creates x rays… being developed as a technology for low cost xray machines for the third world…
NiNY: Never stated I expected a Cup. Don’t put words in my posts. Leave that to Stoned and MuNo.
Deep: can you show me where I said you said you expected a Cup? Don’t put words in my posts about putting words in your posts.
firly, fairly…
Her-dar-shur-da-bur-da-shur-den.
Sounded like the Swedish chef from the muppets there.
I’m not in the parade either. Would we have more goals with Parrish? I believe before the year we were counting on some numbers from #10. If you would just borrow the crystal ball to DR maybe he would have hung onto the offensive asset Mark Parrish.
I would go back and read comments from before the season and have to say that consensus was that we would be lucky to be 4 games over 500 at this point WITH Gaborik in the lineup.
Dickie.. Light bulbs. Incandescent and Fluorescent.
I must say, after reading this blog as long as I have, this is the most entertained I’ve been.
Usually it’s drivel after drivel about the same thing over and over again.
These battles between DB and SotB and Dickie are great reading!
Keep it up!! Enough of the Koombaya. Let’s get real.
Good work people. Thanks.
One more thing, shredded weiner is already old, and not funny at all. It’s been used over 343 times today. I counted.
Dammit Kipper.
But what would Parrish’s +/- be…lol. Everything is relative. Would Miko or Mittens have as many goals as they do with Ghost in the lineup or Offensive asset still on the team? Who the h-e-double hockey sticks knows.
All I know is that Parrish got dumped because he wasn’t enough of an offensive or defensive asset. He wasn’t good enough.
As for Rolston or Demo, they had their own things going on. We couldn’t make them stay here by gunpoint.
I get what you’re saying but we’re verging on a semantic argument, Kai. The point is that the stat IS generally used in a vacuum without the proper context and it is often misused.
I can tell you a goals stat, or even an assist stat, and really, there’s not a lot of context needed for you to draw some fairly accurate conclusions. The need for context with most major stats is the exception rather than the rule. (Like, say, PMB’s points are down due to losing Rolston. Or Bella’s went down last year due to shifting to a checking line.)
+/- needs context always. And WHICH context it needs isn’t always apparent. It’s not like you can just look at +/- and points or some other stat to get the whole picture. You almost have to know the team, the player’s role on the team, ice time, etc.
Buddha! BORK BORK BORK! (My favorite fringe Muppet!)
Dickie… I was not part of that consensus. I said the team is not a Cup contender, and likely another first round drop out, but I said they would still take the division.
Bhudda, you would be wrong. GAA could be a result of poor D. Wow, was that all that hard to think about? Also, you are the same person that tried to compare Malkin and Shep. MuN, to an extent yes they aren’t limited to an existence in a vacuum. It’s like looking at half of the picture. It only supplements our understanding.
Getting back on topic though…
There’s a topic?
Dickie, I absolutely agree! “There is usually a high level of tude in Russoville regardless of what is being discussed. It is the nature of blogs. Right or wrong.” Ms. Conduct, it is hardly a simple semantic argument. If anything, if someone really did have a handle on GAA or other stats they would have a handle on the various reasons that the stat is so. GAA depends on circumstances. It could easily be that the goalie is a wall or a sieve, but it can easily be more complicated depending on the team.
+/- always needs context? News to me. Sounds like a generalization to me. Take Malkin for example. Are you surprised that he is pretty much at the top?
GAA has little to do with the defense. It is an average of how many shots the goaltender faced and how many goals they let in. If you tell me a goalie has a GAA of 2.10, he is automatically that much better than a goalie with a GAA of 3.40, no? A player with a +15 is not automatically better than a guy with a -6.
And yes, I compared Malkin and Shep, your point? It was an example of context. Malkin has a higher +/- than Shep. Put Shep on the top line, his +/- likely goes up. Put him on a team like the Pens, and his +/- likely goes up.
Is he Malkin? No. I get that. He isn’t, and never will be, but the context is the same.
Kai: what’s your deal with ms.c? And I’m still waiting for your point from before.
If you tell me a goalie has a GAA of 2.10, he is automatically that much better than a goalie with a GAA of 3.40, no? A player with a +15 is not automatically better than a guy with a -6.
great points, buddha
I am not surprised that Malkin has a high +/-, but take away Crosby (not even on his line) and Malkin’s +/- goes down because the other team can defend just him.
Buddha, I think things are getting mixed up. I used the Cup as an exaggeration of the general fickleness of fans. When things are good they are great (SC), when things aren’t so good they are hopeless (never win a game). A good example is the general attitude of Vikings fans say, week 4 vs. now.
With “consensus” I was referring to a good large number of people who didn’t think we would score any goals this year and therefore hardly win any games. That was with #10. Usually the rationale was, because we didn’t get any of the names they were looking for in FA. We were 5 moves away from sniffing playoffs, stuff like that.
I always was of the opinion that we had as good a shot at playoffs as anybody else and I wasn’t ready to hand the Cup to the Wings. After the Hossa signing, I’m surprised Detroit didn’t get the Cup and we just skip the season and start the offseason all over again.
And he wasn’t even close to the top last season. +16 is not that high.
There is also often a great degree of hyper-sensitivity.
37 players with a better +/- than Malkin last season. Can anyone name 31 players better than Malkin?
“If you tell me a goalie has a GAA of 2.10, he is automatically that much better than a goalie with a GAA of 3.40, no?” He is better statically, but I wouldn’t say it accounts for poor D-men, no. People would be quick to lay sole blame on the goalie given that they don’t know much about the team. “Malkin has a higher +/- than Shep. Put Shep on the top line, his +/- likely goes up.” It likely goes up sure, but I would never expect it to be like Malkin’s +/- even if Shep played with Malkin. Therein lies the point, There is truth to +/- ratings.
DB’s comments, right after the signing of Nolan:
Critical of the signing:
G*: Dougie has no plan and has changed philosophies 4 times in 8 years. Nolan is a good signing, becuase that’s just what the Wild need; another low teens goal scorer whom can’t play the center position.
On Gillies:
You can forget Gillies seeing the ice with the big club this year unless the team is savaged by injuries. Dougie Ballgame has publicy given the spot to B-B-Benny because we need to see if the kids can play. The only time you’ll see Colton at the “X” is midway through the second period duirng a commercial break during the Anderson Windows’ “Window to the Future” when we get a look at an up-n-coming Wild prospect.
On a hypothetical trade for O’Sullivan:
You would think so but for the Kings to part with Sully, all the while taking on Parrish’s ridiculous contract, even with a prospect like Schaefer, would be simply stunning. If Dougie Ballgame could somehow fast-talk his way through that deal, some of the criticism he has been getting for not shoring up the center position in the 9+ months since Walz quit could be alleviated.
Opinion of the 2009 team:
I agree that that’s what it seems Dougie Ballgame is up to, but even if he feels he has replaced the goal scoring he lost from a year ago, the team last year was good enough to win exactly 2 playoff games. You would think the goal would be to IMRPOVE upon the year before, unless of course you are the 1973 Miami Dolphins. This year’s Wild team doesn’t look a whole lot different than last year’s: top-of-the-line goaltending; very strong defensive system and not a whole lot of punch once you get past Gabby. The band is playing the same song, but the musicians have simply changed.
On Gaborik’s playoff prodcution:
The defense was fine in the playoffs against the Avs. Scoring only 12 goals in a 6-games series only works if you’re playing the Wild. Gabby struggled mightily to get on the scoresheet but he did anything but disappear. How many GREAT scoring chances did he have in the series? More than enough to make a difference but he didn’t finish. You did notice him on the ice, however. Wild did fine by getting younger and more mobile on the blueline, but the forward line is where they needed the most help, even more so now that their only reliable #2 goal man is gone East.
More on Gillie’s chances:
The Don has Gillies listed as a center on the depth chart. You question the Don you better have one of your neighbors start your car in the morning. If Gillies makes the team out of camp (no chance) that means Pooh Bah is gone or somebody broke their sternum in the preseason.
On the importance of a center (keep this one for later):
If Ballgame can swing a deal for a legit center while parting with PMB and/or Parrish, I think we’d all go ass-less chaps, at least for a little while.
On PMB’s future:
Better trade PMB because do you think PMB is feeling the love right now from the Wild? Openly had his name all over trading block last February so it should seem fairly obvious that the Wild is/are willing to part with him. Don’t expect PMB to sign a long term deal now, not when he’s only a year away from UFA and can CHOOSE where he wants to play. Why would he take the chance o signing long term with a team that is openly shopping him and then could trade him to, say, LA, Tor, StL, etc when he can choose which team he plays for next summer. If Ballgame has the chance to package PMB before September for a legit center he should do it, cause it seems bit optimistic that PMB is eager to sign a long term deal with the Wild.
and calling for PMB and Gaby to get shipped out if they aren’t signed LT immediately:
You would think after the 1-yr-deals, and for PMB has done for the team, PMB and his agent would tell Ballgame to shuv it up his ass 3 ways from Sunday; become an UFA next summer and choose where he wants to play. I would like to see PMB sign long term here, but I would be willing bet he is not real interested in doing so. If that is the case, you HAVE to ship him this summer to get something in return. Cannot repeat the Rolston mess. As long as we’re at it, let’s not forget that Ballgame has to wow Gabby with an extension in the next few weeks or he too has to get shipped. Nice.
On Gaby:
Gabby has to have his contract extended before camp starts or we’ll be dragged through a Hossa-esque mess all season, culminating with a deal in February which I’m sure will do nothing to help alleviate some of the anxiety many of us in Russoville suffer from in regards to Dougie Ballgame’s ability to GM this team to Cup contender status.
More on PMB/Gaby:
If PMB signs his 1-yr deal at arb, Dougie Ballgame has to deal him before the season starts. Can’t let ANOTHER UFA play out his contract and walk without getting something in return. Same deal holds true for Gabby. OK, follow me here: Gabby and PMB are not signed long term prior to camp opening up, therefore, Ballgame has little to no choice but to deal them both.
This one I love:
Looks like the NHL scheduling committee has once again done our Wild a favor. 4 of 5 at home to close the year and a relatively “soft” opening 7 games. Is 3 months too much time to begin getting ‘up’ for the season?
Not a mention of needing to trade him because he’ll hurt himself.
The Preissing example G* brought up should have ended that argument. Buddha that fact should nail the door closed. But something tells me it won’t. Or if it ends, it’s only temporary.
Stats really only mean anything to me relative to another stat.
Actually I like save percentage better than GAA for goalies. I think it’s a better indicator of comparative success, and works better as a stand alone stat - in a vacuum, so to speak.
Would you include Johnny Oduya on that list? Because he finshed a +27.
How about Jassen Cullimore? +21
“I like save percentage better than GAA for goalies.” Agreed. Bhudda, where is your head? Are you confused as to what year it is?
You don’t have a Dickie Dunn file do you MuN?
What are you, J Edgar Hoover of Russoville (minus the dresses, no offense intended)? You have dossiers on all of us or just DB?
lololol no, I just did a quick search for DB posts in July.
Interesting reading though
“but I would never expect it to be like Malkin’s +/- even if Shep played with Malkin.”
Do you have a firm grasp on the +/- stat? Because if they play togehter, they generally have the same +/-…
And I don’t know if there are many people that would debate the GAA thing. 2.10 is always better than 3.40. Always. no matter the defense, no matter the team. It’s like a batting average in baseball. It is a goalie’s average. Little to do with the D.
Now, number of shots faced by a goalie, that tells me something about the D. Saves can even be debated to have a partial basis in the D, but the GAA falls squarely on the goalie.
The vacuum part was verging on semantic. I agree the rest of it definitely is not.
And yeah, context is valuable for all the the other stats but as I said, you can still make fairly reasonable assumptions without it (or at least without much of it) for almost everything but +/-.
I would agree that goalie stats are among the easier stats to draw mistaken conclusions from, but in my experience people seem to give those stats the benefit of context when discussing them by referencing the defense in front of the goalie. Not the case with +/- because many people aren’t savvy enough to apply the proper context, so they just go the lazy route and use it at face value.
In think in practicality, we’re not that far off from agreement. I certainly look at +/- for teams/players that I know well and can put the appropriate context around it, but if I’m looking at… I dunno, the +/- for a Buffalo player… *shrug* eff if I know the context surrounding that team/player/stat so I won’t factor it into my assessment of them.
Why would I be confused about the year exactly?
Good research. And to think, you probably only picked one day…
You must also have selective reasoning. I never stated that +/- is a sole indicator of anything. As a matter of fact, I posted a statement quoting someone else who was referring to the plus/minus stat and our team.
Ah, I’m guessing because Malkin is toward the top THIS season, so that makes you right?
His +/- will not go up much the rest of the year. It just won’t. Bet on it.
The references to last season ae to put the +/- in perspective. You are taking a quarter of a season and using it as an end result.
I think that in any team sport, individual stats are all subject to context. But I’m not MKiA. That’s just an opinion.
As a matter of fact, I posted a statement quoting someone else who was referring to the plus/minus stat and our team.
And I was questioning what your point was in doing so. I seemed like nonsense to me and I was trying to figure out if you were quoting it because you agree or because you don’t agree or what your point was. We’ve still not figured that out yet. But I have enjoyed our discussion.
AHHHHH. Effing Burrows.
“You are taking a quarter of a season and using it as an end result.” This is an assumption that just makes you look bad.
“In think in practicality, we’re not that far off from agreement. I certainly look at +/- for teams/players that I know well and can put the appropriate context around it, but if I’m looking at… I dunno, the +/- for a Buffalo player… *shrug* eff if I know the context surrounding that team/player/stat so I won’t factor it into my assessment of them.” Very well put and I agree with this.
Wow, is Kings/Avs all that’s left? Sheesh. Terrible. Guess I’ll pray for a miracle come-back by the Kings.
Stripes is on…that’s what we’re watching.
Ms. Conduct the quote hinted something about the team itself, but I also maintain my point that many of you are just disgruntled for very poor reasons. None of you seem to understand the business aspect of hockey.
Well, that didn’t work so well. McLeod is a clown. I hate the Avs so much.
Players understand this to the fullest.
Kai, Kai, Kai…there you go again! If you want people to start taking you seriously, stop teasing us with your threats of intellectual supremacy and just deliver for the love of God.
Makes me look bad to who? You? Be still my aching heart.
How is it an assumption? Is Malkin being at the top not coming from this year’s stats?
I think you’re making some pretty sweeping generalizations about this group of people, Kai. I haven’t seen you around here before. Maybe you’ve been lurking and know the score better than I think you do, but that’s not the impression I’m getting.
If you want a knee-jerk, emotionally fragile bunch of Wild fans to poke at, I can recommend the Wild message board. This place is by far the smarter, more even keeled gathering of Wild fans. A few folks have their various hot buttons, but they’ll have a mature discussion about it with you if you initiate it maturely.
Don’t understand the business aspect of hockey. Sure we do. Just don’t have any respect for the players who make it clear that the business side is the most important part.
Few specific ones from August/Sept regarding Gaborik:
A few more:
Now that that’s out of the way, looking forward to Gabby signing a 6-yr, $52 million dollar deal on July 31. Gonna be a nice way to close out the month of July.
Let’s just hope that Gabby signs his 6-yr, $51 million deal here so we can get back to the business of preparing for Oct. 11.
And the coup de gras:
The Gabby situation will be worked out prior to the middle of September, latest. Not going into the season with this elephant the room. Gabby has said as much, as has Ballgame. If the numbers from Russo are accurate, $8.5 per season, that puts Gabby 4th in the league behind Heatley, OV and Sid. If he does not sign that deal, it is obvious he simply wants to play elsewhere, which is better to know now because his trade value is going to be much higher in August than it would be in February ‘09 when teams know that he is available for the paying on July 1.
Trade value higher this August because he’ll be available next July 1? What about injury?
Once PMB signed, the final piece of Dougie Ballgame’s summertime puzzle was getting Gabby signed and they are just taking their time to make sure the eyes are dotted and the tease are crossed. The 6-yr, $51 million deal will be announced sometime around Aug. 21.
Gabby: 5yrs, $41.75 million
Gabby willnot start the year, at least in Minnesota, without an extension. If the two sides cannot agree to an enxtension by the end of Sept. he will be dealt. Dougie Ballgame has said as much in previous stories. If Ballgame allows Gabby to start the year without an extension, he deserves to fired immediately. It is not Ballgame’s fault if Gabby does not want to sign, but if the Wild come to that conclusion prior to the start of the year, he has to be dealt. The return will be much greater now than the end of February,w when team’s know they can offer big dollars in July without having to give up picks and/or prospects.
Then, you change reasoning, in a matter of 3 days to this:
KiPA: I doubt that any team is going to pony up players and/or picks for Gabby, if it comes to that, without having some kind of extension worked out. You see that more at the trade deadline when teams feel they “are a move away”. But prior to the season starting, I don’t think any GM wants the “he’s going to be a UFA at the end of the season” headache. Unless, of course, some GM is able to roll Dougie Ballgame over and stuff his head into the couch cushions.
So now he can’t be dealt now, and Feb is teh best time?
On the day Gaborik talks about his contract issue, and hip (sept 3):
I appreciate the news on Gabby/Gaby, but something tells me that the Wild and its fan base are going to get bent over the table on this one.
Now that realization that Gaborik won’t be signing starts to set in, he needs to blame someone on Sept 4:
Ballgame could have started the negotiation process 16 months ago. Nothing prevents that. To let something go until a month before the season starts that is going to be this complicated seems a little foolish. Especially when you’re talking about the only game-in-game out goal scoring threat the team has.
And the assertation that Gaborik is worth 9m/yr and DR should pay it:
Well if that ain’t the cherry on top of the f*%$** parfait, I don’t know what is. I sure as sh!t hope Dougie Ballgame is rolling out the ridiculous old mantra of “Play in front of a large crowd” drivel during these negotiations. “We have lots more to offer!” Some folks say that Gabby may not be worth $8.5 million a year. Different players are worth different amounts to different teams. This team already lost a boat load of scoring in the offseason, struggles to score goals the way it is and Gabby is the lone “game-breaker” this team has. He is not only “worth” $8.5 million a year to the Wild, he is worth $9 million a year and Ballgame should recognize this instead of offering discounts at the Hockey Lodge, coupon books for the best restaurants in town, or 2-for-1s on the mid-day buffet at Rick’s. Doesn’t seem the way “big-league” players want to be treated. It didn’t work for Huggy and I am willing to bet it isn’t going to work for Gabby. Little secret here folks, once and a while you have to “overpay” to keep the stars in town and not offer them non-monetary incentives.
Just an FYI… some of the guys at the bottom of the +/-… Vinny Lecavalier, Marion Hossa, Martin St. Louis, Alexander Semin…
OMG. 6-0 Avs. What channel is Stripes on?
MuNo: Thanks for proving my points. i didn’t want to have to do the searches myself.
Oh, never mind. Real Housewives of OC. Yeah, baby….
“Don’t understand the business aspect of hockey. Sure we do. Just don’t have any respect for the players who make it clear that the business side is the most important part.” Haha, that almost makes me think you are trying to say you know it better than the players, agents and the front offices that deal with this kind of stuff. What I really see is the regulars defending their turf. That is to say, russo’s blog. I just hope you notice the bias most of you have. It’s natural. I have my own bias too (should be obvious by now). I do think most here are being too harsh on Gabby. Why? Because really we aren’t all that privy to what is going on in the Wild Organization. “intellectual supremacy” Great, another assumption. I’m just on the other side of the fence although not blindly mind you. Here is a generalization for you guys. It just seems to me that many fans here in ‘Sota feel like they have been screwed by sports repeatedly. Well, we don’t have nearly as bad as any number of states. B*tch and moan, but really it won’t solve anything. Maybe that isn’t why you are here though. In any case, I’m done. I don’t like investing myself in sports like this and I wish you guys the best. Stop the self pity or for that matter heaping it on one person.
Agree to disagree.
DB, the point is this… I went through all the posts from July/Aug/Sept. The theme of them all is DR can do no good, and above all - he must sign Gaborik. You were calling for DR to sign him for 9.5m/yr on Sept 16th. As it got further along in Sept, your tune changed from hoping he’ll get signed, to lambasting the GM because he wasn’t. No mention of any of this being Gaborik’s decision on not taking the deal - only that DR didn’t offer enough to get it done, and we all will suffer because we’ll get nothing for him come Feb so he has to go now.
The circular logic doesn’t work. You can’t have it both ways, and I’m only trying to point that out. You can’t change the plan when it doesn’t turn out the way you wanted it too.
KaiL: I am one of the few on the blog that does not openly wish anal pollups on Gaby. Many here want the man banished to the north pole or worse. But it’s harsh to say that we think we’ve been screwed by sports, when the Timberwolves play just right downtown.
Since the injury you’ve been on about the fact that DR has blown this situation, and is a failure of a GM because Gaborik wasn’t dealt prior to the season, and he didn’t take whatever was offered for him.
Well, you didn’t mention that back then, as you asserted.
Once Gaborik didn’t take the deal, and got hurt, you changed gears again, pointing the finger at DR because he didn’t trade him because he was an injury risk.
That’s silly. I mean, really, it’s great to have a position on it, but it seems all you want to do is staple DR to the wall because your favorite player didn’t sign on the dotted line. If that’s the case, fine - just say it, but we’ve had countless discussions about what is, and what should be done, etc - and your take continues to change with the situation so you can blame Doug, no matter what the situation is.
I heard lots of this on the wild boards long ago. I thought we were better than that here. I’m all for a constructive discussion, but ya really gotta be constructive, not just finding new reasons to blame Riseborough.
“I don’t like investing myself in sports like this ”
2 hours later…
“that almost makes me think you are trying to say you know it better than the players, agents and the front offices that deal with this kind of stuff.”
Did I say that? I don’t remember saying that. I think I have actually gone out of my way to make it clear that my opinion of UM has little to do with the internal workings of the negotiation, and that both sides have screwed the pooch on this one. However, the comments UM has made, in the pubic view, have made him look like he is money hungry and values the business side of the game more than playing the game itself. And I cannot and will not respect that.
“Tungsten filament or mercury electrons in a vacuum isn’t useless.”
I did not get accepted to Normandale so I had to reference my GED study guide and still don’t know what the hell this means so MuNo, I’m taking your word on this one.
I’ve called Shim Yawnson to come in and break up this slap fight that has taken over the blog. Tyler, correct me if I’m wrong but the first rule of slap fights is never talk about slap fights.
Remember to eat and go to sleep at some point.
DB - I was thinking more along the lines of the notion that the various front offices here in MN can’t seem to make the right trades, acquire the necessary talent in general or build a team for that matter. Minnesota will have it’s day, don’t worry. Our sports droughts don’t even qualify for the, “It’s been a long time” complaint. Not yet anyway.
MuNo: Once again, I thank you for proving my point. I didn’t want to be the one to do the searches. I’ve done it before and found it to be more than a little tedious. Your work is appreciated.
Dissappointed, really, more than anything else. Would have liked to seen Gaby be a part of the core, but it doesn’t look like that is going to happen.
Bhudda, this is my first time on here.
Don’t rip on Preissing. He’s a Rosemount kid. A bargain at 2.75 per.
Kai. I despise Gho$t. A moody, self-absorbed prima-donna who’d rather be an F1 driver. Granted, he is the most gifted offensive player the Wild have, but his attitude and his Oscar make him a bigger liability to the team than keeping him for 8.5 per year (or more).
However, it is what it is. And if DR can get more than the proverbial bag ‘o pucks in trade, it’s a bonus ‘cuz Gho$t is already gone…
Bhudda - “Did I say that?” No, hence the reason I wrote it as I did (…”that almost makes me think you are trying to say…”) I don’t make the assertion that you did say that.
Buddha: your comment about what Gaby said “give me what I want, etc, etc” seems to be the prevailing reason why folks hate him so, which is understandable if he was quoted accurately. I just don’t understand poeple spewing hatred because he is “soft”. A player built on speed shreds a weiner, for the second time in a couple of years, and people expect him back in 2-3 weeks. Briere just “pulled” his and he is out 4-6 weeks. If he’s not healthy enough to play, he’s not healthy enough to play. Rip him for playing hackysack in the first place but to rip a guy because he doesn’t heal fast enough seems a bit much.
kj: you are spot on. Although I still would like to see Gaby sign here for 5 years/$27.5 million, but you, me and the moderator knows full well that it isn’t going to happen. For the organization’s sake, here’s hopin’ Gaby can be at his best for 20 games leading up to March 4 and Ballgame can get a serviceable return on him.
Alright, later gators! Let’s just say I have been way more offended by other pro sports players. Gabby doesn’t even begin to push my buttons. C’est la vie!
In this town you have to have a few DWIs under your belt or some gun arrests/whizzinators to rile the dander of the sporting public. Unless, of course, your name is Bob Schnelker
You sure like to hide behind the semantics don’t you Kai?
The old joke is “If I could tell you to F off, I would. But since I can’t…”
You made the assertion by inference. And if this is your first time on here, don’t make assumptions about what people know and don’t know, and what we may or may not think…
“It makes you look bad.”
Ah yes DB. I think I have ripped him for the comment, and for the hackey sack game.
I have given him crap for being soft and being a sissy, but I have also made it clear that I do so only because it makes me giggle to do so.
i don;t expect him to get better in 4-6 weeks (not saying you said I did). I fully expect him to never get better, and for the injury to rot his career.
Let’s just say I have been way more offended by other pro sports players.
Oh, you were watching the Vikings post-game show on Fox too, eh?
MuNo, Stoned: excellent banter tonight. Contrary to what you or others may think, the blog is better when there is some back and forth. Makes for more interesting reading, IMHO. Gets a little boring when everybody agrees on something, unless, of course we are talking about how much the Canucks suk. Be well…
McHale (sp?) is the coach of the puppies now? Ouch. They are that hard up?
Hey… where’s that guy that screwed up our team really bad? Ah there he is… hey… you’re the coach now. Cool?
Anyone watching channel 11? WTF is that?
Oh, in homage to Shredded Oscar, I had a Chicago Dog at Uncle Franky’s for lunch today.
Bhudda, sure I was implying something, but it was still open-ended. Once you told me otherwise, I had more information to go off of. I can’t read minds nor am I a pre-cog. Simple really. I must go though - over and out.
I can’t read minds nor am I a pre-cog.
I am a Cogswell Cog…
So, kj, you were thinking about Gaby’s weiner all morning and decided to go get a big hot dog to eat for lunch? Really? The overtones are remarkable. Doesn’t surprise me though with all those gay smiley faces you seem to love so much. But to just come out and say it like that, gotta give ya props.
Wow.
Questioning someone’s manhood ‘cuz they got mad html skillz.
I didn’t sense any overtone. I just thought it was funny.
As someone much smarter than I wrote:
C’est la vie!
I’ll just have a salad, thank you.
Gay smilies need love, too.
I think the point is DB, is that you use a heavy amount of hindsight in your opinion(s). And that is fine. But don’t go and say it isn’t hindsight and call me out because you stated that we should trade him due to injury risk, when you didn’t say that. Or you did, but you’ve said alot that is all over the map over the span of a few months.
MuN, J Edgar, proved all that in a very short time frame. A day. You state something, events unfold, you shift often looking back in hindsight. At the moment it is the injury that makes DR bad GM. My sneaking suspicion is that you would be on a different page if Gabby was in the top 10 in scoring. Or playing poorly injury free. Signed or otherwise.
I’m anticipating your positions to shift more, based on future events that I can’t foresee unless you give me the crystal ball. Which hasn’t been very good based on Hoover’s dossier.
I wouldn’t worry about KJ.
Somebody actually counted the number of times the term weiner was used today. I was going to say something about that but was in the quick sand with DB.
Here’s a question…
how long does Gretzky have to be a coach before people stop treating him such sanctity and figure out he is just a mediocre coach and start giving him his fair share of crap?
Phoenix will lose their team first.
Not gonna happen Buddha, he is the Great One. Even if he deserves crap, it will be hard to come by.
Ugh. I thought so.
Just read about fifty posts about how Versteeg “knows better than to pick on the great one.”
His dad has a wall of Gretzky stuff. Come on man. YOUR kid is in the NHL, and playing quite well. Where is HIS wall of stuff? Where is the dad reflex to rip up all the Gretzky crap and burn it in effigy?
Wow, Russo, dye your hair much? It’s so black it looks blue.
The Paper. A true classic…
Anna: Oh, Henry, this might interest you. The mother whale in the Ukraine had triplets.
Henry: She told me she was on the pill!
Seriously. Everyone should toss this movie in their Netflix cue. It helps if you were/are a newspaper dork, but with such a great cast and such a marginal script, well, it is so good you will forget that Marian Groinorik has even missed a game in his career.
I dye my hair, I think it looks pretty.
By the way, this is MuN lol! Figured I could borrow a pen name from Dickie’s reference
Plus/minus is only relative and indicates to what degree a player pays attention to both ends of the rink.
But, I think the +/- has a greater meaning within the team than comparing against the entire NHL.
Because the Wild are not scoring many even strength goals and most of their games are close nobody on our team will have a wide variation of +/-.
Also, you need to factor in the individual players responsibility and whether they are primarily a checker or a playmaker.
Goodness, glad I missed the stats and its meaning discussion.
Agreed, The Paper was a great movie. I changed my major because of that movie. Haven’t seen it in years though.
I hear ya, Sunshine. Just nice to not be talking about Gaby or Riser for a change.
But, I think the +/- has a greater meaning within the team than comparing against the entire NHL.
bingo! Now time for bed. Nite kids.
Dickie Dunn says:
>>>I think the point is DB, is that you use a heavy amount of hindsight in your opinion(s).<<<
Just a warning DD. I made a similar observation several days ago. You are on the verge of entering a very deep dark and vacuous hole.
MuN: I admire your tenacity, but I think we got gill hooked by a troller. To paraphrase an old adage, One cannot win an argument with an irrational man.
Gabby, boogard and Benny on a line would be fun to watch…
If J.Bo doesnt go to the Sens, i have a feeling they’ll come a knockin..If Gabby wont stay, package him with kimjo to the Sens, and release MAB…
The Wild want Spezza for Christmas!
I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I dont know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.
Alena
Gay smilies need love, too.
My wife said that very thing to me last night too…
why do I get the feeling “Alena” isn’t the hockey-mad fan-o-Russo that she’s portraying…???
from Russo’s video above, someone cut Nolan’s laces…
A headline in my Google Reader:
“Predators Lose, Accuse Canucks of Head Shots”
The ‘Nucks? Naaahhhh.
Then I go to the story, and the three stars are as follows:
Edler, Ellis, Demitra.
Ellis is of course, the goalie from Nashville. Who lost. 3-1. He gave up two goals… what about the other guy? You know, that only gave up one, and oh, I don’t know… won the game?
Again with the 3 stars? I don’t get why everyone gets so worked up about it.
Oh, in homage to Shredded Oscar, I had a Chicago Dog at Uncle Franky’s for lunch today
having a foot long dog in honor of shanicoe today by chance?
Predators Lose, Accuse Canucks of Head Shots
I could agree with this. Try and find the reel of this game. That team needs an old fashioned beat down. might get them to play hockey again.
the sad thing is vancouver ended up with power plays after every transgression.
the good thing is after burrows jumped off a trampoline to hit dumont in the head, arnott took the 2, 5 and 10 to get some shots in. burrows was too skilled at the turtle technique for arnott to be effective.
Buddha-
For the record I’m anticipating Gaborik’s return. I’m pretty excited for it. I’m not sure I could ever understand why someone would be disappointed? He scored 40 goals last season.
If you want to hate the guy because he isn’t thrilled with the idea of playing in Minnesota then you are taking the game too personally. If you think he is greedy because he can possibly get more morning playing somewhere better suited for his skill set and ultimately be happier then you’re hypocritical. Who here would turn down more money for a better job match in a location you desire?
I like to look at it from the point of view that the Wild management and Gaborik are just people. There are no sides, just people looking out for their best interests, people wanting different things. There is no reason to be cruel towards any of them.
Lastly, to blast Gaborik for his injuries is just ludicrous. Clearly there is some sort of persistent underlying issue and a lot of you hear act like Gaborik is ok with it. It is just ridiculous. I bet it devastates Gaborik to know how much talent he has but also to know he has an obvious lower body issue. Two off seasons ago he poured immense amounts of time and effort to try and keep the problem at bay. He knows it is an issue and he is trying to figure out how to manage it. This is not the lackadaisical picture a lot of you paint.
Try to keep things in perspective.
Here’s the reel on the Burrows ‘hit’. Notice ‘hit’ is in quotes as I would describe it as more of a cheap-shot or attempt to injure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0sauC3H6zk&eurl=http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/52352
AiH- To me, hockey is personal. It has been a passion since I was a kid, and always will be, so to tell me I am taking it too personally makes no sense to me. If I weren’t taking it personally enough, then I may admit I have a problem.
I am disappointed by his return because I like watching the Wild play the game the way they are playng it right now. I hate watching them try to force the puck to UM so he can attempt a five hole shot yet again.
Who here would turn down more money for a better job in a location you desire? I would, given the fact that my employer has bent over backwards in the past to sign me despite the fact that I am injury prone, has been more than patient with my recovery, and offered me a more than fair deal.
I don’t think he is greedy because he wants to play somewhere else. I think he is greedy because he said “If they would just give me what i want…” Like a two year old. Like Latrell Spreewell and Randy Moss. Gimme gimme gimme.
I laid it all out pretty clear in a couple places, but he lost the respect here in MN because he is acting like he is superior to the team that drafted him, paid him millions of dollars, developed him into the “star” he thinks he is. I know he will get his money. I know there are those that think he deserves it. I think if you don’t play a full season in 7 years, you get fired at most jobs.
I also made it clear in more than one area that the problem I have with him is not his injury. I like to make fun of him about it because it is funny. The reason I don’t like him is because rather than kep his mouth shut, and take his pay day humbly, he had to open his flapper and say that stupid, condecending line.
I think that line tells us more about who he is than most are willing to admit.
Not that I accusing you of doing so, but I will not jump on the “Man I can’t wait for Gaby to get back” bandwagon.
I want him off the team. Soon. I have been in enough locker rooms and on enough teams to know that when one guy really doesn’t want to be there, it makes for unseen, unspoken tension, and that hurts the team.
Yeah, I take it personally. Very much so. Always will.
Well, I attempted to link the Burrows leap above, but it’s awaiting moderation. So instead, you’ll have to go looking for yourself if you want to see it. hockeyfights dot com is where I found it.
Personally, I’ve never felt Gaborik is the superstar he’s made out to be. Sure, he’s quick, he’s got a quick shot, used to have an accurate shot (I’m not so sure he’s still got it), but there are a dozen (or more) more complete players I’d rather have.
For a long time he was the only Wild player with the potential to become a star. I think that led to many people feeling he is greater than he actually is. Sadly, DR’s given in and paid him likewise.
Some players don’t want to play for JL and JL doesn’t want some guys on his team. That isn’t JL’s fault nor is it the players fault. For you to take that personally is just ridiculous.
Perhaps you’re just jaded because you’re realizing that the guy that inspired you to rush out and buy Gaborik merchandise and cheer him on from the stands wants to move on.
As for me, I’m going to enjoy him as long as he is with the Wild. If he leaves I will remember him fondly and wish him the best of luck.
I don’t have time to hate a guy because he wants what is best for his life. I’m also not going to hate a guy that is still with the Wild. We don’t know for certain that he won’t be back next season. We don’t know yet what the rest of this season has in store.
Apparently Mats Sundin is meeting with the rangers… http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/rangers/ny-spsundin1210,0,724633.story
Well, I have absolutely zero Gaborik merchandise. I would love to claim its because I knew he was a jerk way back when, but it’s not. I didn’t buy any because everyone else was.
I went with the Matt Johnson jersey… good choice eh?
I don’t want to get into a big, long battle, but I can take personally what I want to. (Sounded a bit like a two year old myself there) It is one of very few things in life that I can do and not have to justify to anyone.
I think he is a piece of crap as a person. On the ice he is a midgrade quasi-star that when he leaves will get some idiot GM to give him a mint. In return, he will play 70% of the next couple seasons and then realize his injury is never going to go away and simply disappear. Just my opinion… nothing to back it up with… yet.
As for on ice production, I think if you put him on the Penguins, he falls to the third line because Malkin and Crosby play so far above his level that he wouldn’t be able to keep up with them. He just really is not as good as people think he is, and that is one of the reasons he thinks so much of himself.
http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/52352
I hate Burrows. What a turtle.
AiH-
Please don;t take any of what I am saying as saying you aren’t allowed to be excited about his return. I can see that side of the coin, too.
Just not a fan anymore.
SotB @ 1:25am: Not a troller, just a passionate fan who’s not happy with the situation. I guess I always try education first, and if that fails, flame them lol!
—–
Well put, Buddha. Very well said.
—–
Oh, morning folks. lol
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=3758538
Any idea what one has to do with the other?
The Vancouver Province rips Gaby again - I wonder if Demo reads this rag?
BEST QUIP
“At least you can say this about Sami Salo: He’s Lou Gehrig compared to Marian Gaborik.”
http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/sports/story.html?id=75c48592-669f-4cad-9767-ba0c9b80becb
You can take whatever you want personally, I completely agree.
Will Gaborik go on to be a perennial 40 goal scorer? No one knows. But if he figures out how to manage his groin problems with another team that will be a sad occurrence for Wild fans.
According to JL and DR Gaborik played well in the playoffs and that was with a torn labrum. He is not a Sally. This groin issue is just something special. Could be genetics, could be the way he skates. But I’m willing to bet he works past this problem or alters his game a bit.
As far as I know Matt Johnson finished out his career with the Wild, so it isn’t that poor of a jersey choice. Plus, you could always claim that he was on the verge of something special until the lockout derailed his career.
Lastly, Matt D’Agostini has scored four goals in four games with Montreal since being called up from Hamilton. I know for a fact DR watched this kid play in a Bulldogs/Aeros game just before he got called up. I wonder if this slick skater could be effective within the Wild’s system?
Green*…nah, no footlong today. I’m goin with Famous Dave’s for lunch. Company function so it’s catered.
Nothing better than a free lunch!
Mic Mac, that story is silly. “Oh boo hoo! The ref cursed at me.” Seriously? What a pansy.
Seriously, Vancouvers inferiority complex regarding the Wild is getting sort of embarrassing. For them, I mean.
but kj, there’s no such thing as a free lunch!
MicMac: Nothing. I was dumbfounded thinking the same thing after reading it!
Ok, as long as I’m not crazy.
Buddha - I’ll be even more excited if a healthy Gaborik gets to play with Koivu.
Also, a healthy Gaborik potentially means someone gets to come back to Houston.
UPDATED
(a few rumors floating about who, what and where, plus better adjustment from where the money was bet)
GABORIK TO TEAM:
MON - 2:1
PHX - 3:1
TOR - 4:1
LAK - 5:1
MIN - 5:1
ATL - 5:1
ATL - 6:1
PIT - 8:1
OTT - 8:1
FLA - 8:1
NYR - 8:1
PHI - 10:1
DAL - 10:1
CGY - 10:1
SJ - 10:1
BOS - 12:1
WAS - 12:1
VAN - 15:1
BUF - 20:1
NYI - 20:1
CAR - 20:1
NJD - 25:1
TB - 25:1
CJB - 25:1
NSH - 30:1
TB - 30:1
STL - 50:1
DET - 50:1
EDM - 50:1
CHI - 50:1
COL - 75:1
ANA - 75:1
Aaron, every time I see D’agostini get a goal I’m thinking about that. Dude is on fire.
I’ll be happy to see #10 on the ice in a Wild sweater again. I think he adds more than he takes away from the team when he is on the ice. You get the distraction either way. Might as well get some goals out of him. You can’t deny that he is an offensive asset.
Sooner he gets on the ice the sooner we can find a conclusion to this circus. Take down the tent.
I’m pretty ambivalent about Gaby’s return. He’s never inspired much fandom out of me. Too aloof for my taste. I suspect he’s probably a pretty decent person, though. Most hockey players seem to be. The flip side of “just give me what I want” is the team saying, “just take what we’re giving you.” I don’t believe there’s a villain in this scenario (though I’m happy to throw Salcer under the bus if someone needs tire tracks on their backs).
I just don’t care enough about Gaby to feel real strongly one way or the other. He’s just not my type of player. Stay and score goals, leave and end the bellyaching. I don’t care.
Yeah, my position has always been that the team is not one player or coach. I don’t care who pulls on the sweater as long as the guys that do put out an honest effort.
I hope the Wild is in existence long after each of the guys on the current roster has hung up his skates.
*raising a glass*
Here, here, Nick.
did i move the phoenix line that much?
i’d rather have #10 playing than not playing but i no longer care if he is traded.
Did anyone see the Canucks-Predators game last night? God, the Canucks made some dirty and very questionable hits. They were super agressive with their hits and they went largely unpenalized. Anyone else see it?
Sorry I just realize you’ve already been talking about it.
ATX- The story on the ref…
I really hope Miller wasn’t complaining about it like that, you know?
The other side though is that the ref lost control of himself. He can’t do that. If a player said that to him it would be at least a 10 minute miscounduct.
I see the side of, quit whining, but he said he mentioned to his coach in jest. I don’t think he was too shaken up by it. (At least I hope not)
I think the Wild will survive NiNY. All teams are bigger than one player or one coach IMO. It’s why they are called teams.
Dickie: I’d like to think the team will survive too. Of course, that’s what I thought about the North Stars when I was a kid…
burrows on his hit on dumont:
“I don’t want to injure the guy. I know the guy. We work out together in the summer. That is the last thing I want to do,”
what is with this guy and players he works with in the summer?
here’s arnott’s take:
“I knew he left his feet. You see it on the replay, and he lands after he hits J.P. It’s a blatant call, and there’s two guys out there. I don’t know how they didn’t see that. Then the guy runs Webby (Shea Weber) from behind. He didn’t need to hit Webby like that, from behind, run his head into the glass,”
then head tool vigneault:
“The only thing I found special with calls in the game we were not allowed to hit them. Every time we threw a good strong clean hit, there was a scrum after. It is part of the game. It was a physical game. They took offence to some of the hits we threw,”
the whole team is losing it.
the kesler hit on webber was not a good clean strong hit. i guarantee if you swap mitchell for webber, mitchell would have been yapping his sissy little face off after that good, clean, strong hit.
any question as to whether or not AB left his feet ends here:
http://images.sportsline.com/u/ap/photos/TNMH103121001_1024×768.jpg
Russo where’s our latest gabster update? got off the plane and stung by a scorpion? mugged and beaten by a crazed mether? what??
He didn’t leave his feet so much as LAUNCH.
Green*, yeah… You’re 750 pushed the PHX line way down! There’s only 800 total on Montreal, so comparatively speaking, Montreal is a steal right now at those odds!
i’m a fan of hard nosed hockey but this bertuzzi the nux are pulling is not an example.
good thing i got in at 100 to 1 or whatever it was.
Now, on to the discussion about the ‘Nucks…
The approach is typical… You cross the line when you can, and pretend it never happened. In fact, you create a reality in which you and your team lives, and deliver this alternate reality to the media in the form of surprised denial, and claim exactly the opposite of what’s said - even in the light of proof.
You see, people are sheep. They’re inherently dumb, and a good share of them will believe whatever they are told, and more so by the 1st party telling them.
So if the Nucks play this game of “clean hit”, and “didn’t see”, and making false accusations the other way to distract from the issue, there’s people that will tend to believe them until they are proven wrong.
For example, the pic Nick posted - I will guarantee you that there are Nucks fans, and others, who will pose doubt about that picture and claim that it wasn’t the hit in question, or the same game, or it was the angle of the camera, or JP ran him… People have ingrained beliefs, and some will stick to them no matter what proof their shown.
G* - I love this quote!
“I don’t want to injure the guy. I know the guy. We work out together in the summer. That is the last thing I want to do”
How about the spear you threw into PMBs gut last year. Didn’t mean to injure a guy you work out with right?
Recently there was some discussion on the NYT hockey blog about whether or not the removal of the instigator ends the Burrows/Kesler type of play.
It’s just wrong that Arnott got the extra minutes for stepping up for his team mate, in my opinion - and maybe I’m just being obstinate but I don’t think anyone’s ever going to change my opinion about that type of situation.
Now, I have to admit that I’m not sure how I’m going to draw the line between that and real life when my daughters come home from school and tell me that “Julie pushed Jackie on the playground and so I stepped up and punched Julie in the nose just like you yell at those hockey players to do, daddy!”
If you had sons, that might be worth worrying about, Nick. Speaking as a former girl, our external cues about appropriate behavior usually aren’t coming from Dad watching Sports.
What I wonder is, is there a way to modify the instigator. What I’m seeing a LOT of lately is guys getting pummeled for clean checks because their teammate didn’t necessarily SEE it or they’re just overreacting or whatever. And I think the instigator does protect guys appropriately in that regard by either discouraging such retaliation or punishing it.
Of course, as the Queen of the Cal Clutterbuck Society, this weighs heavily on my mind. Think about how, if there was no penalty for going after a guy whose job is just to hit hit hit (and he does it cleanly), how would he survive?
How do you make a rule that draws the line between retaliation for clean, legal hits due to frustration or mis-seeing or whatever, and dirty hits that warrant retaliation?
http://www.startribune.com/sports/wild/35874854.html
Really, Joe. Just hang it up.
ms.c: I agree that dropping (ambushing) on a guy that just checked your guy cleanly is getting out hand. The problem is it is always going to involve a degree of referee discretion and so it will never always be called fairly to all parties.
Additionally, I like that the refs are giving out penalties for lipping off to them more (so it seems, anyway).
And I’d like to see them call the cheap shot, cross check, slash, whatever on a guy that just scored on you (I’ve been pining for this for years.) Not only is it totally bush, but it would be awesome to score a goal and then go right on the PP - especially at home. That would fire up the crowd big time.
Ms. C. You hand a copy of “The Code” to the refs and let them read it. Then you have third grader read it to them because they don’t understand it.
The guy standing on the ice isn’t supposed to be the guy sticking up for his teammate. It’s the guy on the bench, who isn’t allowed to come off the bench and defend his guy anymore. I think the players are smart enough to know which hits are clean and which aren’t. I think they just want to not be seen as sissys in the media or the fans and so they pick a fight after a clean hit.
I am still putting this all together in my mind, so feel free to counter that arguement…
I feel for Sakic though. He has too much skill and class - and has played and represented the game with such respect, for so long that he shouldn’t have to go out on a snow blower injury.
I hope he can come back - as long as it’s not against us.
On the instigator rule, Versteeg, a rookie, was suspended 1 game for instigating a fight in the last 5 minutes and JQ fined $10K.
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=258967&lid=sublink015&lpos=headlines_nhl
Aaron, we fans need to look at Gabby on the basis of what he is producing for the Wild, not on the basis of what he might produce or what he eventually produces for a different team if he is traded.
For whatever reasons, maybe good or bad, he seems to have abandoned the team. His actions say he has rejected the contract and moved on. He acts like he doesn’t give a damn.
If I was on the team and perceived he did not care, I would highly resent him coming back.
What is Foster doing since his more serious injury? Is he with the team? Is he going to the games in support of his teammates?
Foster is visible to us as fans. Gabby has not been unless we were Timberwolf fans.
Nick, in a way it is two completely different scenarios. At school, Julie faces a very good chance of being disciplined by those in charge (teacher/principle). In the NHL, Burrows will face nothing. Obviously the refs either didn’t see it or didn’t think it warranted a penalty. The league won’t do anything. Their stance will be “The refs didn’t call it so it must not have been that bad. They were there, we were not. Blah, blah, blah…”
So what you do is tell your daughter to be a good witness. If she’s asked about the incident, tell her story.
Yeah, I’m still putting it together, too, Buddha. I dunno. It’s one of those aspects of hockey that both fascinates and confuses me.
Nick, I have to agree, I think the Kessler/Ruuttu/Burroughs/Bertuzzi (gee, all originally from the same team!) style players would have to modify their game if the instigator was removed. These guys, and the Canucks play style, does thrive on baiting teams into taking retaliatory penalties.
However, on the flip side, the instigator made the all-out brawl fade away, because no one would step up and “take” the penalty. The game changed as a result. Now, they wait for a few line changes, then send someone out to pound the guy who should have gotten beaten in the first place - and that draws the intended penalty.
Can’t win, either way.
Me: Joe Sakic, you’ve got an injured back and you’re being paid $6,000,000.00 this season, what are you gonna do now?
Joe Sakic: You know Goody, I think I’ll go out and blow the snow out of my driveway.
WTF!? I can guarantee if I was making $6M this year I’d not have been out in my driveway shoveling yesterday!
Ice:
You nor I can say that Gaborik hasn’t been supporting the team by going to the games as Russo has seen Gaborik at some of these games. Just because Russo and other reporters don’t see Gaborik in the lockerroom after every game doesn’t mean he isn’t there. You have to look at past Gaborik injuries to see if he’s acted the same way. From what I recall from his last injury, he has been the same.
Injured guys don’t have sit in the press box to support the team. They can be at the X but downstairs working out and watching the games. Was Koivu in the press box for all the home games he missed last year? Probably not because he might have been in the work out room instead and avoiding the media asking him when he will be coming back.
Foster is good PR for the Wild while the Gaborik contract debacle is bad PR for the Wild. He doesn’t mind speaking to the media. The Wild is going to milk all the good PR they can get from Foster as much as they can. The fans and his teammates can cheer him on in every new accomplishment because it was a devastating injury that he suffered. Plus, we don’t expect him back anytime soon and Reitz and MAB are just as good as Foster.
Gaborik, he’s a different situation. It wasn’t a devastating injury but a recurring one. For everyone of those 1 goal game losses, you kind of think man if Gaborik was on the ice, we might have tied that game or go and win it. The most frustrating thing about the Gaborik injury is that we could be further in the standings and built some cushion now to prepare for the awful March games.
Last thing on Foster vs. Gaborik. They are their exact personalities. Foster seems outgoing and personable. Gaborik seems reserved and quiet.
If the media isn’t asking to speak to Gaborik, he won’t go out of his way to speak to them. Foster will most likely be friends with the media. If he doesn’t play hockey again, he should look at being a broadcaster or a Gorg without the stupid head-to-head challenges. You can’t say the same for Gaborik.
Burrows hit…
The announcers are such homers..
I say he needs to be suspended. Left his feet, has a history.
And why is it that everytime the Nucks play anyone, there is a line brawl?
Reitz and MAB are just as good as Foster.
Reitz yes… MAB no. Reitz is very comparable to Foster. Both are stay-at-home style, and they make few glaring errors that lead to opposing goals. MAB on the other hand, makes far more Skooba-type errors than I can ever remember Foster coughing up. He is not nearly as defensively sound as KF IMO.
Thanks Sunshine
Goody… i was going to say something about him out using the snowblower when he has the cash to pay someone to do it… but it really isn’t his style to pay someone to do it.
Can’t believe he’s the guy who sticks his dang hand in the chute though either…
You’d think the guy didn’t have a stick layng around somewhere.
MAB’s shot is way more useful than Fosty’s although he did get better shooting the puck as last season went on. But yes, Reitz makes less mistakes than MAB - the two make a strange duo but probably better than the average #3 combo.
on the instigator
In the case of arnott vs burrows, why could the instigator rule determine that burrows was the instigator? arnott wouldn’t have jumped him if he didn’t leap to the questionable hit? it might add a judgement call to the refs but i’d let them try it for a while. let toronto decide who the instigator was. if arnott jumps burrows and toronto determines that the burrows hit was clean, then give arnott 2 and 10. if toronto says burrows deserved the beat down, then he gets 2 and 10 and an arse whoopin.
people will say they will target players well they already do. enter into evidence article A, Derak boogaard.
might make players think a little more. probably worth a shot.
What a pansy.
Really? You don’t think the referees should be a little more professional and not tell players to go fiddle themselves?
On the leaving the feet issue.. all I’m actually going to say is I think it was the Sharks color guy or someone who I heard say the other night, you don’t technically leave your feet. How can you? You leave the ice. Just a little something lighthearted.
lol Buddha,
I was skipping that sakic story untill ya’ll started chatting about it…who has the voo doo doll with his mug on it? only in hockey will this kind of injury occur to one of its stars eh? I would expect this kinda thing out of laperier but joe? no way.
The Nux will always be the Nux. They seem to spawn cheap, dirty players.
Buddha, it isn’t so much the money thing that makes me go ‘huh?’ as much as the fact that he is (well, until recently, now he’s got another reason too) out because of a back injury. Using a snowblower isn’t exactly overly taxing on your back, but I’d not be volunteering to do it if it meant possibly re-injuring my back.
KiPA - I’m sure there are plenty-o-people who wouldn’t mind if Burrows were to actually leave his feet. Where they’d like him to leave them I can’t say, but…
So I was just reading Puck Daddy on the Sakic thing and realized I had no idea that’s what a snow blower looks like. Always just thought they looked like leaf blowers. Heh.
Also, today as I was in the drive-thru at my favorite Cuban dive, I see a couple of girls get out of their car, SCREAM, and then go running as fast as they can into the restaurant. I look at my temperature readout: 41.
There’s your Texas slice of life for the day.
But at least it feels like hockey weather AND we have hockey to go see. Bonus!
I want 41 degrees right now.
Hmmm. My temp thingie says -6. Celsius.
That’s too bad about Sakic. He’s truly one of the last class acts around the NHL, and it would have been nice for him to play most of this season, given it’s probably his last.
There aren’t many guys like him around anymore, and despite how he kills the Wild all the time - he’s a fun guy to watch, and he’s earned his reputation as a great leader and ambassador to the game.
That’s pretty funny Ms.C - the snowblower thing - but I’m sure there’s a thing or two I’ve got wrong about Texas.
From the comments on PuckDaddy:
First free agency then this, why are the Avs always cutting ties with their Fingers.
Goody- I thought about that too. So… your back hurts huh? Well, go home and take a load off will ya?
Nah, I think I will run the blower for a bit…
What is this caught in here?
Ah… OW!
From Puck Daddy:
” “He put his hand where he should not have put it. He’s, in a way, lucky.” said Marteneau. Haven’t we all been there, fellas? “
OK… go read the post. It is freakin hilarious:
realized I had no idea that’s what a snow blower looks like. Always just thought they looked like leaf blowers. Heh.
Look at that! Hockey bringing the people together!
Ms. C… come on… really? With the snowblower thing? You didn’t even know what they looked like?
You make me chuckle.
Fingers in the snowblower is never a good thing. But there is a deep inner manly satisfaction that comes from moving large amounts of snow long distances quickly with a snowblower so I can see where he would be playing around with it wealthy or not.
I like Gaby. His quiet personality and the language thing lets him down a little on the public relations side of things, but my impression is that he is a good guy. If anything, I sense he is too sensitive. He built an arena for his hometown for pete’s sake. And I’m a player’s guy. More power to them in getting any last penny they can squeeze out of owners like Naegele and Leipold and the rest of Bettman’s cronies.
The Nux are a collection of d**d*es and everytime I see a shot of Vigneault I am reminded that as long as he is in the league, Barry Trotz doesn’t have to worry about being the oddest looking character in the NHL.
Oh man, I’m thinking of the futility of trying to clear your driveway with a leaf blower. :gay smiley:
everytime I see a shot of Vigneault I am reminded that as long as he is in the league, Barry Trotz doesn’t have to worry about being the oddest looking character in the NHL.
well…in AV’s defense, he DOES have a neck…
SotB, have you ever ‘accidentally’ run over a newspaper with a snowblower?
Following on KiPA’s theme of correct terminology, I have been told by a marketing firm that I contracted with that when they work on strategies with equipment companies like Toro and John Deere, the engineers always get bent out of shape and it leads to remarkably intense meetings when the term “snowblower” is used. Technically speaking, they are “snowthrowers”. There is no blowing involved. And yet, Tors’s website uses both terms. Must be some form of intercompany detente.
Snowblowers, hockey, and hotdish, Nick. I’m all set. Just send me my key to St. Paul.
Seriously, B. Had no idea. Why would I? I think I’ve had enough snow to build one snowman in my entire life. In third grade. There’s more snow on the ice after our novice league games than I’ve seen outside in 10 years, apart from trips to Canada.
But get this, there’s a chance we might have to move to Kansas City in a year or two with Mr. C’s work (just found this out today), so I’m frantically looking for hockey in the area so I can give it my blessing. Apparently they’re constructing an arena in Independence for which the primary tenant will be a CHL team. Pretty low level hockey, but it’s better than having to go to the local rink and watch the mites play. And further, there would be snow. So maybe I’ll get to see a snow blower in real life.
Oh man, I’m thinking of the futility of trying to clear your driveway with a leaf blower. :gay smiley:
Honestly, I’ve never used a leaf blower either. Hate the damn things.
Interesting, Stoned.
Ms. C… KC is pushing HARD for an NHL team. Already have the arena, LA Kings owners owns it.
From last winter:
http://www.startribune.com/local/11606006.html
City crews attempting to clear Minnesota Avenue on Friday with a rotary plow struck an abandoned, buried car in the middle of traffic lanes
For Ms.C, ‘rotary plow’ is code for big freaking snowblower which is about 6 feet tall and 10 feet wide.
Yeah, Ms. C, Kansas City was one of the possible destinations for the Penguins if they moved.
Maybe you’ll get the Panthers or someone.
Oh wait, you said hockey.. never mind.
>>SotB, have you ever ‘accidentally’ run over a newspaper with a snowblower?<<
I have managed to steer clear of that but imagine it would be interesting depending on the sized of the snowblower, whether the paper was frozen, and if it was the Sunday Post vs the neighborhood weekly. My kid did run over the extension cord for the Xmas lights last year. And I had a buddy when I was a teenager that was trying to get a thrower through a narrow gate. He made the mistake of stepping in front of the machine which led to literally a shredded Achilles. He was never the same. And since then I have always been very careful around snowthrowers and corn augers.
Now, I’ve seen the big things with a big shovel thing at an angle on the front. What’s that? Just a regular snow plow?
Yeah, Buddha, I just don’t hold out much hope for that. Plus, I’d honestly rather have minor league hockey. Just more intimate and accessible and I could continue writing about a team, which would be awesome, assuming nobody bogarts that role for PHN.
There’s a ton of kid hockey in the area, though. I could only find one D league team for myself, but I only need one, so that’s okay. As long as someone will give me a net to park my happy butt in front of.
That Puck Daddy link made me laugh out loud. Reading this every day at work is the best entertainment ever.
MplsWild- Glad we could be of service.
Ms C. *voice used with a child* yes… thaaat’s a “Snow plow.” Very gooood. Yes, Who’s smart? Yes, you are!
Hee hee.
The big shovel thingy at an angle. Keep ‘em comin’!
ATXs… my cousin is moving to Austin. Coming down for some job with a phone company.
Anything he needs to know? Good places to eat, drink, etc…?
Is anyone else suprised that Gaby is talking about wanting to play on this roadtrip when the cities that they are playing in typically have crappy ice. I mean it was in ANA a few years back that he had the issue the first time.
This also makes me doubt the rumors of him wanting to play in LA. The guy can’t skate on that bad ice.
Why I oughtta!
I’m not an ATX but I’ve spent a few years in Austin. Everything’s good there. Barbecue, Mexican, heavy drinking. The only thing bad is the traffic. He needs to pick his residence in relation to his work pretty carefully, IMO.
Is the ice that bad in LA? I figured it was worse in the more humid places like GA/FL/TX.
BTW, it sounds like Hullie may be out as co-GM in Dallas. Not a shocker really but it’s the first time I’m seeing someone go into it in depth.
I don’t know if anyone pilled this quote from that Joe Sakic v. Snow Blower article.. but it honestly made me laugh out loud.. I think I disturbed the dog. “I guess he’s lucky…last time I put my fingers where they didn’t belong, I ended up married.” That is just classic.
Buddha I can fill you in on all the good places to eat/drink etc. I think I have your email… let me go check.
I assumed he wanted to play on this trip to show LA they should invest heavily in him next year.
The only thing bad is the traffic. He needs to pick his residence in relation to his work pretty carefully, IMO.
yes. this is important. We live about 11 miles from downtown and it takes the wife bout 35 minutes to get home from work usually. It’s not the worst traffic ever, but it is annoying.
I don’t have your email Buddha, shoot me a line at ahmug@hotmail.com and I will set you up with some important things to know.
Favorite line from the Sakic story:
Obviously, Tyler Arnason was an option, because he’s not doing anything else; but then again, Darcy Tucker could have avoided any mechanical dangers by spearing all the snow until it melted.
ATX- You should have email. Thanks.
And thanks Ms. C, for helping despite me being a big meany…
Are we getting fed today or what? *bangs fork and knife on the table*
Wow, Mikey on the Spot there. Food!
The Nux are a collection of d**d*es and everytime I see a shot of Vigneault I am reminded that as long as he is in the league, Barry Trotz doesn’t have to worry about being the oddest looking character in the NHL.
That doesn’t make any sense. Alain Vigneault is totally normal looking. That’s your best line of attack against the Canucks.
And speaking of Barry Trotz, I find it hilarious that the coach of JORDIN TOOTOO would have the gall to complain about dirtyness on the part of another team. He needs to shut up and look in a mirror.
[…] to Michael Russo of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, the Wild are playing coy with Gaborik’s playing status, intimating that he’s not anywhere near ready to go. However, Russo says Gaborik will […]
