High-stick or no high-stick? You be the judge; Great Lemaire stuff
Posted on January 4th, 2009 – 1:56 PMBy Michael Russo
(updated a bit)
On Johan Franzen’s no-goal reversal last night that tied the score at 2-2 late and forced overtime, here are two screen captures emailed to me by a reader as taken from nhl.com video. You be the judge.
Incidentally, here is that Sunday column I mentioned two days ago that I wrote about the tragedy of Marian Gaborik’s injuries. Just a different take on the whole thing, but also addressing all these calls for a short-term deal between Gaborik and the Wild.
Back to the no-goal reversal. I was in contact with the NHL this morning. I talked to Jacques Lemaire this morning. The league sent the Wild the “conclusive” video of the Detroit Red Wings’ feed it used to overturn referee Brad Meier’s no-goal on Franzen, and Lemaire’s mouth dropped. He said there’s nothing conclusive on there.
I’ll have a lot more on this in tomorrow’s paper. I’d say this: I didn’t cover the game, but the telling signs — Meier’s six feet away, Franzen looked at Meier wave off the goal and didn’t argue at all and the league only used Detroit’s inferior telecast for feeds. The Wild’s feed at 12 cameras and was in hi-def. The Red Wings used six and was in standard-def.
The reversal may have cost the Wild a key point in the standings (with circumstances changed, you can’t say for sure Detroit doesn’t tie the game anyway with an extra attacker or something). That point would mean the Wild would be eighth today instead of ninth.
Two years ago, a faulty replay in Vancouver (exact circumstance where the Wild had good video and the league was taking an inferior feed) cost the Wild a Pascal Dupuis goal. Remember, the Wild lost the division by one point. If the Wild wins the division that year, it doesn’t play Anaheim, which was a terrible matchup.
In 2005, in Denver, Brett McLean scored a goal when the puck squeezed under the net. The league didn’t get a replay until after the ensuing puck was dropped. Video goal judge Gary Pedigo, asleep at the switch, slammed the door in my face during the intermission. He still works Avs games though, so maybe we’ll reminisce tonight. 
Wild has an extremely optional skate this morning. Only like six guys, so I can’t give you the for-sure lineup. Other than one poor sap, as you’ll see a little below, is definitely press-box bound.
Marek Zidlicky will be a game-time decision today. He’ll skate warmups. Listening to Lemaire today, if Zidlicky plays, I’m not too sure John Scott doesn’t get the nod over Erik Reitz, whom Lemaire doesn’t have much confidence in. Just look at Reitz’s ice time lately even with the Wild shorthanded on the blue line (Zidlicky’s illness yesterday and Kim Johnsson not playing against Calgary).
Also, Benoit Pouliot is so much in the back of Lemaire’s doghouse, he can’t even see daylight. He got bagged alone today by assistant Mike Ramsey like few players I’ve ever seen. He could hardly breathe in the thin Colorado air. I guess if he won’t skate in games, he’ll have to skate in practices, eh?
Krys Kolanos has essentially taken his job because Lemaire says, “he shows more.” Lemaire said it’s a “maturity” issue with Pouliot, who essentially was given a free pass to be on the team this year even though he didn’t prove he warranted it in Houston.
On the lack of playing time recently of guys like Reitz, Craig Weller, Colton Gillies, Pouliot, even Stephane Veilleux last night, Lemaire was fascinating today on the subject.
“These guys, they can’t drop. They don’t realize that. If they drop, then I can’t play anybody.”
Lemaire then looked at me and said, “I’ll play you. You know why? We’re going to lose anyway.”
Russo: “Guaranteed.”
On Reitz: “He’s got to get his game a little better. He’s got to get quicker, he’s got to get some aspects of his game better. He’s trying.
“It’s more patience from me. You can’t have that patience when you have to win. It’s when you see that if you have no chance to be there, then I can have patience. Now, that patience will take one game two points from you, another two points another game, another game another two points, and these six points will ruin you.
“So where do I stop? It’s not just Reitz. It’s everybody. Pouliot, Weller, Veilleux, all the guys that didn’t play the last five, six minutes last night.”
Because you’re scoring, the margin for error is thinner than ever?
“Exactly. If you see at a time you have no chance at all, then I’ll play them to give them more confidence. They’ll make mistakes, they’ll get a goal against, doesn’t matter. When we have no choice that they have to get better. But now, we’re still in between. Until we decide where we’re going, I have to be like this.
“Like last year, we were great for awhile, we had a tough stretch of not even a month (he’s talking in February, early-March). Two-three weeks max that everything was upside down. We could have went down, but everyone picked it up and we went up. But we had to cut down on certain guys to play. Some guys played more, other guys played less because you want to win.”
So you’re saying you can’t afford to play certain guys here unless the season tanks? “Then I can play them.”
When the two beat writers laughed, Lemaire said, “And it won’t be funny.”
Talk to you before the game.
63 Responses to "High-stick or no high-stick? You be the judge; Great Lemaire stuff"
In reality, the no-goal should have never been overturned. Who was responsible in the Toronto ‘War Room’, then? And, why did they not have access to the HD Minnesota TV feed?
Of course, the reality is that if the Wild stop playing the ‘Hockey Prevent’ defense they play in the last half of third periods, it would have never degenerated to this point. Even though the penalty was almost over, it should have never come to that point where someone not on-site determines who wins and who loses.
The war room in Toronto is a joke. They make decisions on poor feeds. What’s with these clowns.
When I saw the replay on TV last night, I thought–no problem. Can’t be indisputable evidence to overturn. How can these clowns make decision on poor feeds like that. Can’t they afford to see the HD feed?
The guys in Toronto could only get the Detroit feed with their Center Ice Package.
I hope that Russo enlightens us as to what exactly is required for the war room to overturn a call. Remember the AO goal that was reviewed earlier this year? Russo let us know that the high stick goal is the only call that the war room can send back to the 4 on ice officials to determine. That was called a goal by only one of the four officials on the ice. Thus that call was overturned. In football we understand that there needs to be indisputable visual evidence. What is the requirement in the NHL? From where I sat last night it was a close call, but after seeing the replays online, I can’t see how this call was overturned!!
Oh, Well, game’s over, let’s win one in the can tonight!!
I totally agree woodcock - I thought it wouldn’t be conclusive enough to overturn. What kind of recourse does a team have when the league makes the wrong call?
Also, Benoit Pouliot is so much in the back of Lemaire’s doghouse, he can’t even see daylight.
On the plus side, he will soon join Mark Parrish and Keith Carney as a player that has a suite named after him in Chateau De Bow Wow.
Last night’s effort tonight = 2 pts.
What kind of recourse does a team have when the league makes the wrong call?
Appeal it to the MN Supreme Court? 
I also think there should be some sort of non-human way to judge high stick goals. Both of the pictures Russo posted show it as higher than the goal, and a computer would have caught that. Humans have a tendency to judge by what they like, and most league officials would probably admit to liking the Red Wings more than the Wild.
maybe it was a bad call maybe it wasn’t. versus san jose, the ref was 5 feet from the net and called kolanos’s wrister a no goal when it clearly went in the net. thankfully someone reviewed it and called it a goal.
as for the wild playing prevent…after the wild took the lead, one would have expected the prevent but it didn’t happen. they kept pressure. it was only after the tying goal it appeared to me that they were holding on for a tie.
kj - absolutely. We played a great game. I just hope our core D isn’t too tired after playing so much last night.
I noticed that, too, G*. I was pleasantly surprised that we were really going for the win. Until they tied it, that is.
I think there’s a story there - about why the NHL war room chooses one feed over another? Why can’t they look at both? They have the MN feed available too, so why not use all angles?
If they “select” a feed, what is their criteria for selecting that one?
Should resolution and # of camera angles count in that selection criteria?
Sorry, I’m not ripping on the refs for this. Bad call, yeah. We didn’t get to see any replays of it in the X while they were reviewing it. So I really can’t comment on whether it looked good or not, but the 2 pics posted above aren’t clear either. Need more resolution and another angle, with a clock timer on them.
As an aside, I almost got beat when I commended Skoula for stepping up to hold it in, then taking a shot, and it getting on net, while we were protecting our lead in the Detroit zone.
I do have to say, Daniels and Redmond are pretty good broadcasters. Granted, they have that same “home-team bias” as Dumb & Dumber do, but they make far fewer mistakes and they tell a better game. I think a few of you were upset at their opinions about the Wild as an inferior team. In some ways, they’re right - Detroit is far more talented, more experienced, and deeper than the Wild. If anyone has seen some of that team up close for a few years, you understand they expect to win every game. They have so much confidence in themselves, and their organization, it shows. I think some of that rubs off in the broadcast booth too, and if you’re not a Wings fan, you find it offensive.
Personally, I still think they’re the model for a professional sports franchise. Great ownership, excellent work at selecting upper management, and great personnel. Since Mike Illich bought the team, they have done nothing but excel - even when they exited a few postseasons in the 1st round, they regrouped and came back the next year.
So, when does Houston get stuck with Ben again?
“Pouliot…has a suite named after him in Chateau De Bow Wow.”
It will be in the newly constructed Gaborik wing of the dog house.
Agreed on the Detroit broadcasters, MuN. Redmond can rub me the wrong way with his schtick, but he can also be interesting an entertaining if you let it go. And at times when he’s slamming the Wild, I can’t say he’s wrong exactly. The 3-2 that he was pointing out as brutal (and how the Red Wings would never execute so poorly), well, it WAS brutal. But then the Wild get so few odd-man rushes during a game it’s difficult to expect them to know what to do with one when they get it.
Glad to see Lemaire calling out SRV, too. I know he’s a popular player and he works hard and all that, but I still cringe watching him play.
And I thought Colton Gillies had a fine game last night. He didn’t look lost, was mixing it up pretty good, and I will say that the kid can fly.
Yep, Gillies was solid last night. In fact, I did a double-take at one point, thinking, “Who is this really confident player carrying the puck down the ice wearing 18?” I think he just needed to get off the radar for a while, get the pressure off.
I know everyone likes him because he is a good guy, but Bruno’s skating is so bad, he can’t back check or forecheck, unless he gets the puck in the corner. He’s killing this team.
He’s basically a power play only player.
I hope Nolan can stay healthy, I like what I’ve seen lately.
I think it’s weird nobody talks about how one dimensional bruno is.
Oh boy. This Aeros game is gonna be ugly. 8th game in 10 days so ugly is about all you can expect.
BUT the cold front is here! YAY! Can’t even express how crappy it is to have to run the a/c in early January.
Actually, I said I’d bench Bruno a while back, hrbek. He’s gotten really slow and seems to have trouble finding the puck in front of the net. I think you have to hold the vets to the same standards as the kids. During the “let’s go Wild” chant, I even say, “Earn your paycheck”.
I think some people here would beg to differ, ms.c. We’re at 1 above right now with a windchill of 16 below.
I can’t say I’ve ever flipped the A/C off since moving to Houston 2 1/2 years ago.
I think both the Wild and Aeros lay an egg today. Tough playing the next day in a new city after losing a game you had won.
heather - as one of the few if not only persons here to live in the Twin Cities and Houston I can assure you 80 degrees in January is down right brutal. It is one thing to take a winter vacation to this weather, it is quite another to live in it.
I lived in Florida for 15 years, so I’m there with you Aaron. I totally prefer the cold - you can always put on more clothes, but you can’t take any more off (turns out there’s laws against it). But “some people” would prefer the heat.
Right you are heather.
[…] Russo’s Rants – […]
Well, when you spend 9 months of the year sweating your skin off and swimming in humidity, you cherish every cool day and loathe every unseasonably warm day. I suppose it’s the equivalent of a 50 degree day in July for you guys.
Aaron, as soon as we moved in we installed thermostats that have an automatic setting. Heat kicks on when it’s “cold” and a/c kicks on when it’s hot. But I even had to lower it a couple of degrees from the automatic setting even.
But now we have the back doors open airing the place out. Oh, it feels so nice.
The boys managed a goal! Only 2-1 going into first intermission. Nice to have Rosy back on the ice making plays.
We have similar cherishing and loathing up here, but the opposite. But when I lived in Florida, I felt just like you - it sucks to get out of the shower and immediately feel like you need another one.
MsC, I’d send you some of our cold but I don’t think that packs well in a box. If it were just a couple degrees warmer here the ice on our side walk and deck would melt off without the help of deicing products. And I could have walked down to the rink earlier to get some skating in, but way to brrrrr to do that today. AC in January just sounds like a sign of the apocalypse.
Brad Meier is not my favorite by a long shot, but this time he got it right.
If the refereeing cannot get it all right all of the time (and there are too many judgement calls to think they can), at least they could be consistent!
What I do not understand is: everyone says there must be irrefutable evidence to overturn an on-ice decision.
Already this year there are several decisions that have been overturned when the second view is no better than the first! Certainly not irrefutable!
These calls get expensive for the Wild they cost us a point here and there in the standings. None of these decisions ever seem to to be fair!
I have pointed out how many times, (and it has occured more than I can easily recall), the Wild has been simply robbed on a bad call against them.
You would think the law of averages would even out sometime and we would get a break. But, that does not seem to be the case
I’m not expecting Redmond to be un-biased, but that doesn’t mean I have to like him either.
And, while I agree they make fewer mistakes than our idiots, I totally disagree that they tell a better story. They just prattle on, and on, and on about whatever.
Great stuff, Russo. Also, Russo, do you honestly think that Gabby won’t be traded at the deadline for something? Some playoff bound (probably not playoff bubble) team will certainly want him.
Augh. Friggin’ Tuuka Rask.
Living in Northern Minnesota, I enjoy all of the seasons, and the winter cold much more than the hottest summer days.
In fact, I love to cross country ski. There are beautiful trails around here.
With all of the snow, this is the year for it too. And, except for some post surgery recovery I would have been, but will be soon.
Ha! Awesome. Huge check by Brust!
G*: you hit it on the head that the guys did not sit on a lead. After the tying goal, they tightened their game to prevent Detroit from scoring a goal. I think they made a conscious decision to take the risk of getting the loser point than to continue pressing and allow odd-man rushes going the other way.
I that point, I was praying for the team defense and Harding to hold up for the loser point.
Aaron, are you watching this?
Brusty got run by a Providence player on the way to the bench at the end of the second period. A rather sedate scrum ensues, during which Rask skates over and starts jawing at Brusty! It was thisclose to a goalie fight! Awesome.
guys did not sit on a lead
i admit i was a little surprised to see it but it was good.
So, when does Houston get stuck with Ben again?
does ben need to clear waivers? if so you won’t see him because either we won’t waive him or he will get claimed.
I was under the impression he didn’t have to clear waivers.
It appears, since he signed his EL contract as a 19 year old, he’s exempt from waiver for 4 years or 160 NHL games, neither milestone he’s reached yet.
So….everyone thinks the wild had a great effort last night–that was possibly the most boring hockey game I have ever witnessed. The 5 man prevent was not only enforce in the last five minutes of the 3rd, it was in the previous 55 minutes of action as well as the OT. You people continue to buy this as good hockey, and the powers that be have no reason to change it. You cannot win like this anymore. Mediocre talent will not win, even if they play defense all night. Truth be told, aside from a 45 second stretch in which they got one good goal and one off a lucky break (yes, I know detroit got a break too), they had no interest in pursuing any offense at all. But, you folks keep buying tickets and talking them up, and you can continue to watch them falter when it matters. You can also continue to watch the owners laugh all the way to the bank.
Also, breaks are breaks, and the hockey gods even them out over time…last year, Detroit lost a game to Anaheim when a shot bounced off the netting back out front and was put home by the ducks…and it is a non reviewable play…so…take your point and be awful happy you got it, because I don’t think this team is headed for the playoffs, and if they are, it is gonna be another first round exit.
I’m not sure is anything for Pooly to learn in Houston that he can’t learn in the doghouse. If he hasn’t felt the fire under his butt yet, he might not ever. It could be a motivator I guess, but seems like he should get it by now to me.
Benny will play out the year as they see what he has.
So, Mike - you’re saying that the Wild is so boring that nobody should watch it, yet you watched the entire game? Hmmm.
At least he’s cheaper in Houston. He doesn’t seem to be learning at all, so you might as well pay him $100k a year to do that rather than $800k. But don’t tell Riser I said that. 
Heather–Detroit fan…live here..had tix…otherwise wouldn’t have watched…would love for the wild to give me a reason to watch more often, but they play boring hockey–also, I’m saying that wild fans are accepting-no, adoring of a mediocre team with mediocre talent..who play a boring style…watch away, it’s NHL hockey, but its not good hockey…and they are going nowhere- again.
Ugh. One of those.
but they play boring hockey
no offense to the almighty red wings fans out there but they ain’t all that exciting either. they play the defensive system better than most. they dump and chase as much as anyone. they have no “energy” players to go out and bang some bodies.
Detroit was b-o-r-i-n-g yesterday until they got behind in the 3rd.
The wings are leading the league in goals for and are in the bottom third for goals against and penalty killing and “they play the defensive system better than most”….sorry, but check your facts before you speak…also, they were boring because the wild lined up at the blue line, took the puck and chipped it to center…and the wings were not that good last night either, if i don’t say so myself…
Sorry, they are 19th in Goals against, not bottom third, but awful close..24th on the PK
goal for and against aren’t everything.
the wings play the system as well if not better than anyone else. they are as content as anyone to let the play come to them and try to pick off passes. same thing the wild and every other team does.
If the Wild don’t win today this day wil be a complete wash. First my Dolphins lost, now it looks as though the Vikes are hopeless, and if the Wild lose my whole day will be wasted. Ugh… sports.
Yeah, I don’t really find myself going out of my way to watch Detroit games. In fact, they’re pretty low on my list of teams I’ll watch for the hell of it. I mean, good solid hockey but really really boring. Goals alone aren’t what exciting hockey is about to me.
Goals alone aren’t what exciting hockey is about to me.
+1
The posted screen captures show nothing. So what’s the point. If you can find a screen capture of the point of contact from the same elevation as the crossbar, THEN you may have something. But you do not.
So stop whining. Your team lost, get over it. Its not like the Wild is going to make the playoffs anyway.
The Red Wings have left the building. Probably to go back to Detroit to polish the Stanley Cup.
Sidney Crosby says:
Who the eff are you? Go watch the Pens blow a three goal lead you tool.
Sidney Crosby who?
Everyone knows A.O. is a better player.
Food
Great game last night. Detroit has incredible talent and for my money is the best visitor that hits the X each year. Great crowd last night also.
That SO goal by Datsyuk was just sick. Best move I’ve seen in a SO.
My seats are on the other end of the X, so I didn’t get a good look at the questionable goal. Watching it today, it seems strange that it on-ice call was overturned — the replay isn’t obvious either way. I’m sure Russo will have more to say on this.
Detroit fans posting here - we’re sorry you didn’t score 6 goals last night. Next time we’ll roll out the carpet. Maybe Russo can ask the goalies to let a few more in for you.
P.S. everyone. Rolston #1 star in NJ today
Looks very similar to the Nash goal earlier this year. I bet you had no problem with that call did you?
Hey homer - way to show misleading screen captures frozen before Franzen’s stick actually touched the puck. It’s like the morons doing the play-by-play on ch.45 who froze play right after it happened and used their little pen to circle what they kept saying was Franzen’s high stick. Except the stick they circled was being held by a green glove and belonged to Martin Skoula. They showed the replay 178 times during the live feed. To be a high-stick goal, the puck has to be “above the height of the crossbar,” which means completely over it. There is no way you can say that that puck was completely over the top of the crossbar when it was struck unless you’re watching the game through red-and-green christmas elf colored glasses (Sorry, folks. Worst sweaters in the NHL. Awful. Like Arena Football on Ice. Embarrassing, frankly). I’m sorry the on-ice ref made the call too blatantly and too soon, rather than waiting for the replay. He was wrong, the call was corrected, and the Wings won. Get over it.
Weird how Toronto sides with another original 6 team…
