Now it’s eight straight losses, 90-84 at Denver
Posted on November 17th, 2008 – 12:21 AMBy Jerry Zgoda
OK, so when did the Wolves lose this one?
At the end once again, when they led by nine points with 6:25 left and allowed the Nuggets a 21-6 closing run that included 11 unanswered points?
Or, as Randy Wittman contended, at the end of the third quarter, when the Wolves also led by nine with 2:51 left and surrendered a closing 9-2 run that pulled the Nuggets within a basket?
Now, the Wolves pushed that lead back to nine points, but afterward Wittman lamented the third’s closing stretch, when rookie Kevin Love missed two layups and at least two other shots down the stretch.
“We have to close a quarter out,” Wittman said. “It’s those little thing that you have to take care of. Kevin missed two point-blank layups. They go down and Chauncey (Billups) hits a pull-up three. Those baskets, you’ve got to have. You don’t make it, they do. That’s where it really changed. You keep the lead there and then you push it in the fourth and it’s 15, now it’s 16 and the pressure’s on them. We gave away seven points in two minutes. That’s where the tide turned on us a little bit.”
Said Love: “I just missed some easy buckets. I gave myself a couple chip shots, a layup. We let it get away a little bit in the third quarter. But we got it back up to nine, so you can’t blame it all on the third quarter.”
Somewhere in there, veteran Kevin Ollie approached Love, lifted his chin up and encouraged him.
“It’s kind of been that way the last three games or so, all my shots have been right there,” Love said. “He told me those shots will go. I know they will.”
Still, the Wolves squandered that last nine-point, fourth-quarter lead. Al Jefferson’s technical foul for protesting a late call on him on Kenyon Martin’s missed dunk allowed the Nuggets to get three points closer with 5 1/2 minutes left. Then the Wolves let Nene picked up a missed Denver free throw off the floor and feed Carmelo Anthony for an emphatic go-ahead dunk with 2:27 left.
Billups — a former Timberwolf, dontcha know? — provided the punctuation point when he followed Jason Collins’ offensive foul for an illegal screen with a three-pointer that gave Denver a four-point lead with 50 seconds left. It was all over then.
Collins, as I noted in my pregame post, moved into the starting lineup Sunday with Ryan Gomes for Love and Corey Brewer. He played 17 minutes, scored two points, had five rebounds.
Wittman when asked if Jefferson’s technical had any effect on the game: “Nah, no, that’s an emotional deal. We got some tough calls down the stretch. Ryan played some pretty tough defense on Carmelo, Carmelo jumps into him and Ryan gets the foul. It’s hard when in a fast-break situation the referee at half-court makes the call.”
A couple other things:
BTW, the eight-game losing streak matches the longest from last year’s miserable season. That started Dec. 22 at New Orleans and continued until they beat Miami at home on Jan. 8.
Randy Foye’s 18 points were a season high. Sebastian Telfair started the game again, but this time played just 4:47 — he looked like such a little fella trying to guard the bigger, bulkier Billups — before Foye (and Kevin Ollie later) came on and played 39 minutes while Telfair sat the entire night until 18 seconds remained, and by then the outcome had been decided.
Mike Miller took just four shots (made three of them) in 34 minutes. Gomes took 10, Love nine, Foye 15, McCants eight in just 16 minutes. Even Craig Smith got up five. What’s up with that?
91 Responses to "Now it’s eight straight losses, 90-84 at Denver"
Foye played badly in the fourth. He plays badly in every fourth quarter now, and the fourth quarter is when we lose all our games. He’s not a point guard, he shouldn’t be out there running the offense. He doesn’t know how. If he’s going to be on the floor with the game on the line, he needs to make shots or make plays, and he does neither.
Better games don’t mean anything if we can’t win. There were a lot of guys who didn’t get it done tonight….Love couldn’t score worth anything, Craig either, Miller passed up some shots he should have taken, Brewer did basically nothing except foul guys. But in the end, what killed us was our offense broke down again, and that’s Foye’s deal. He’s setting us up, he’s supposed to be getting everyone good shots, and he’s not.
Ya, I’m a hardass on Foye right now, because I think he deserves it. He disappears when we need him most, and he does it every game.
If we want to use him as a shooting guard, then that’s fine, that’s great. He’s a natural scorer, that’s where his talents lie. But using him as a point guard, which is ultimately McHale’s doing, just gets us into trouble and we can see that basically every game since the opener. Wittman shouldn’t have him out there running the offense at the end, but if he’s going to, then Foye needs to step up and make it happen, not step down and leave us out to dry.
That brings us to this question: why is Wittman putting the ball in his hands in the first place?
That’s why I blame McHale for this ultimately. In 2006, when we drafted Roy then traded him for Foye, the first thing everyone said was “how does he make it as a two guard when he’s so short?”. And McHale said “he’s going to be a point guard”. So the decision to use Foye in that role is McHale’s doing, first by pressuring Witt to use him (because Witt can see the offense break down…he’s constantly yelling at Foye to get it together), and second by giving us basically no other options.
McHale has built this team wrong, and I feel that selling Foye as a point guard, which is basically leaving him out to dry at a position he’s not equipped to handle and wouldn’t be playing if McHale was smart and a good judge of talent, is the biggest issue on the team. And that’s on McHale. If he’s calling the shots, he should know better.
I think that Foye is trapped right now having to play out of position, and Wittman is trapped by being forced to play him out of position. And both those things are on McHale. I do blame Foye for tonight’s loss because he didn’t run the offense when he was supposed to, but I don’t think Foye is what’s wrong with the team. He should be making plays happen when he’s out there, but ultimately, he should be in the position of having to make plays happen in the first place.
Fire McHale. If we revamp the front office and the roster and still lose, then fire Wittman. But McHale goes first.
Also, I do think Wittman takes some blame for this one too. We were at our best with Collins and Ollie on the floor. Ollie was the guy who got us back into the game in the first place. Why wasn’t Wittman using Ollie and Collins at the end of the game? Collins came in after it was too late (and went back out after like, 30 seconds) and Ollie didn’t play at all.
That’s what I think Wittman does wrong. When the offense breaks down (and he knows it does, he can see it happening), instead of swtiching and going to a guy who can get it moving again (Kevin Ollie) he sticks with Foye, the guy who is the reason it’s not moving in the first place.
That’s why I think there’s a conflict of interest between Wittman and McHale. Witt knows how the offense works, which is why he starts Bassy. When the offense isn’t working, I have to believe his instinct is to go back to Bassy. So why stick with Foye out there? My guess is because McHale tells him to.
[…] On the Wolves – […]
ALSO for those of you still putting up with me and reading all the way down to this:
For those of you calling for a coaching change, keep in mind that a change in the front office (meaning VPO and GM) basically guarantees a change in the coach. Very rarely, unless the GM retires, does a coach stay on after a front office shakeup. Firing a VPO or GM means the team is doing very badly, and the new head man will tie the old coach to that losing as well. Plus, GM’s like the whole team to be personally handpicked.
Take the Suns for example. Jerry Colangelo sells the team to Robert Sarver, Sarver hires Steve Kerr as the new GM, Kerr forces Mike D’Antoni out the door (where he’s now pulling off a miracle with the Knicks). A classic example of how a change in leadership results in a change in coaching. Was D’Antoni doing a bad job? Not at all. But he wasn’t on the same page as Kerr.
Just thought I’d mention that. We can fire Witt, or fire McHale which all but guarantees Witt is gone anyway.
I think Foye is out there because McHale has instructed Wittman that THAT is what is going to happen…and Foye will either learn to play and execute in the 4th quarter or the wolves will lose 81 straight games
I pity Jerry Zgoda, he has to sit and watch this s… and work for the dying newspaper
The only way Randy Foye is a meaningful NBA player is if he’s a point guard. He’s not good enough nor big enough to play full time at shooting guard. If Foye can find his form from late last season, things can work out. If not, he’s destined to be a 15 minute a game guy to provide spark off the bench. And when you’ve traded a guy who’s set up to be a perennial All-Star for that, you’ve got a whole lot of interest in seeing that it happens.
I think it’s too soon to give up on Foye, because there’s no alternative. I know a lot of people around here adore Telfair, but he’s not the answer, either. He’s an adequate backup and nothing else. (And, frankly, he hasn’t looked very good so far this year.) This Wolves team isn’t going anywhere, so we should give Foye every opportunity to figure things out.
Sean
I disagree a little with your view on Foye. If Foye was teamed with a taller PG like Shaun Livingston who would be big enough to guard other teams SG it would be okay. Unfortunately the Wolves don’t have a taller PG and there aren’t a lot of those guys out there.
Also, if you look at size, Foye is basically the exact same size as Dwayne Wade and he plays SG. I know that Foye is obviously not as good as Wade but the NBA is getting smaller and a 6′4 SG isn’t a rare as you might think. He just needs to improve his defense and get stronger if he is going to play that position.
If Randy Foye decided to start playing in a similar vein to Dwayne Wade, it might work. I’m not going to hold my breath, though. Randy’s FT attempts per game are going down as his career goes on (a meager 1.3 per game so far this year in 34 mpg), so he shows no sign of embracing the physicality required to pull it off. So he’s going to have to play the 1.
I can’t believe that Smith and McCants were on the floor in the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter. that is all Wittman’s fault, that should NOT happen. there are 8 people that should finish out the game before either of those two.
Foye will be adequate and okay, if not above average. he’s been mediocre so far this year, but I think people will be surprised in another 10 games that he’ll have gotten it going.
Foye isn’t really a help right now, but I’m real sure that he’s not one of our main problems(and we’ve got plenty of them).
It’s so hard to watch this team put together brilliant stretches and show some real promise only to embarass themselves when it really matters. Tonight I had a big problem with Wittman’s rotations. Our personal at the end of the 3rd set us up for disaster. We didn’t have a single scoring threat out there while they left Chauncey out there to murder us.
Those fast break 3’s and quick scores they were getting were result of our poor shot selection and rushed attempts. I can’t see any reason for KLove and Craig Smith to be on the floor at the same time. It makes no sense.
Also, the help defense is still sickening. It’s hard to single any one player out b/c they were all so bad at it.
As far as Foye goes… He showed promise again then proved that he is not the answer at PG at the end. I realize Bassy was getting bullied by Billups but 5 minutes of playing time for your starting PG? There is obviously a hidden agenda here being run by McHale. He has to go. There really is no other answer for this franchise. I don’t know what Glen Taylor is worried about b/c this team can’t regress any farther than where they are now.
This franchise is the worst in professional sports. How about you dismantle the whole franchise and ship it off to Seattle since they have a want for another team, send the target center with it. Get the Wolves out of here!
Lottery pick again. Hopefully Mc Moron can just stick with the obvious. Mayo and Roy together would be nice. We have Foye and Love. Hmmmmm….
Agree with Sean about Foye. Because of the disastrous roy-foye swap, management needs to give Foye playing time. It’s a way for McHale and probably Wittman to save some face. Same situation for Smiley Brewer. He was our top pick, so we have to play him. Even though he’s often a worthless, bumbling fool out there on the court, McHale looks better if Brewer can manage to score a couple of points…
I think a couple of the posts above hit the problem directly: Wittman doesn’t seem to understand how to rotate players in and out and still keep a solid team on the floor.
The blame for the losses spreads over everyone, players, coaches and front office. It’s harder to prove McHales hand in the on court struggles, but the idea that Foye is his PG and that’s the reason Wittman plays him there makes sense.
If we’re never going to play Collins or Booth, why are they staying on the team. Either one of them at center would at least let Jefferson play the PF and IMO, would make the rotations that much easier to handle.
Smith and McCants need to learn to play within the offense instead of forcing things. Foye is on his way to being included with that pair. Jefferson still needs to keep his head up when the double team comes so he can find the open man before the defense rotates. Miller simply needs to get more open looks. Yes, he didn’t take many shots, but how many open opportunities did he really have?
The coach needs to get out from under the thumb of the front office. I don’t think Wittman will stand his ground, and I don’t see Taylor forcing McHale out. My hope for the improvement of the Wolves this season or in coming years is very small if the dicision makers don’t change their ways or simply change.
If the Wolves had a good option other than Foye, I’d be for playing him. They don’t, though. For all his flaws, I think Foye is a better player than Telfair.
It seems we all agree that a rotation needs to be set. My question is which players get left out of the rotation? They really shouldn’t be playing more than 8 guys meaningful minutes unless foul trouble comes up. So which of these guys get pinched for minutes?
Ollie
Foye
Telfair
McCants
Brewer
Gomes
Miller
Love
Jefferson
Smith
Collins
I know most will say Ollie and Collins should be the first to go. But against bigger Centers Collins is going to have to play minutes. And if Foye isn’t a PG isn’t Ollie going to be the backup?
Can anybody say O.J. Mayo, Brandon Roy
No we say Foye and Love.
Imagine if Mchale would have stuck with his picks.
I forgot to mention, can anyone say what an idiot, Mayo is rookie of the year and Roy is an all star.
The team has NO rotations
Players don’t know their roles
The only player on the team who can prepare for the game is Jefferson.
Wittman doesn’t know who his best players are
I was hoping for a good day today.
I was hoping Wittman would be fired today.
So far, its not a good day yet.
I agree with you NM. Maybe later today he will get the ax.
No offense down the stretch.
No discipline.
No defense.
No leadership or accountability.
How can anyone get motivated to support this team? I am close to giving up and heading over to the barn.
I would reduce Smith and McCants down to bit players in the rotation by focusing the minutes at 4/5 using Jefferson, Love and Collins and at 2/3 using Gomes, Miller, and Brewer.
When is Glen Taylor going to fire Wittman and Kevin? Wittman has a career win loss record of 97-200. He should not be the coach of the Timberwolves. GET RID OF HIM!!!! so we can find somebody to teach these kids how to place defense!
For the time being this is the rotation I’d play to try to win a few games.
starters
Jefferson 38 minutes per game
Love 35 minuts per game
Gomes 30
Miller 30
Ollie 25
collins 20 minutes
Foye 30
Telfair 10 ****
Brewer 10 ***
McCants 0 *
Smith 0 **
Notes:
* all mcCants is good for is shooting. His FG% is 36% - Bench him.
** Smith can’t defend his position and he is impeding Love’s development so bench him.
*** Brewer = Can’t shoot. If a player on the opposition “gets hot” put Brewer on him for a different look. But don’t expect offense.
**** Telfair only 10 minuts a game until he can show effectiveness running the team.
Jama:
I think you are right regarding the line up. If we are only going to put 8 guys out there, I think we should put in 8 that at least have shown that they can play in the offense. I would say that the “odd men out” are in this order:
- Brewer– not sure what he does for his team other than squander minutes.
- McCants– shows flashes of brilliance but lack of judgement and defense mean that he is a huge net liability for this team.
- Probably Smith or Collins depending on the matchup.
I am sure I will get blasted for the last one– Smith is actually my favorite player– but we just cannot match up with him in the line-up. Collins could be used to spell Big Al or Love when there are bigger centers on the floor.
The wolves have talent!
They have been in every game but one.
They had leads in the fourth quarter for most of them, many of them substantial leads.
If you lose virtually all of your close games thats on the coach.
Wittman must go!
How bout fire McFail and Wittman and replace the GM postion with Flip Saunders and replace Wittman with Del Harris
It’s hard to determine players 6-8 because 1-5 are always changing. If it was last nights line up (Telfair, Miller, Gomes, AJ, and Colllins), which surprisingly I didn’t actually mind, I’d say the first three in should be Foye at 1 or 2, Brewer at 2 or 3, and Love and 4 or 5 depending on match ups and fouls. Leaving McCants and Smith as the low men on the pole. Collins hopefully improves. He was incredibly slow and out of it.
A General Manager like McHale has three important “basketball jobs” [as opposed to business jobs like filling seats.]
1) Get talent for the roster
2) Manage the salary cap - so the wolves can attract players in the future.
3) Hire a good coach - to teach the players how to win.
I think McHale in the last couple of years has actually done a good job on numbers 1 & 2 above.
The wolves have talent on their roster. They have played alot of good teams “even” right to the end. In most cases they had good leads in the fourth quarter.
The wolves salry cap situation is actually EXCELLENT. They could sign so star type players in the summer of 09 or 10.
McHale’s downfall is Wittman. He is not a good coach.
McHale should fire Wittman and coach the team himself.
It is hard to find a coach this time of year. McHale starts with instant credibility. - he believed in them enough to bring them all here.
[I dont think Wittman’s assistants are experienced enough to take on the task.]
So McHale if you value YOUR JOB. Fire Wittman and prove that this team can win.
If you don’t fire Wittman, I think both you and Wittman are gone at the end of the year.
Ollie should start in my opinion, at least for a while.
This is a young team that needs a “steadying” hand.
they need someone who can run the offense, play some defense and not make mistakes.
I would start OLLIE for the next few games and also play OLLIE at the end of games.
It can’t be worse than what we have seen at PG - Foye throwing the ball away at the end in a couple of games.
Hi Jerry,
It feels like things have come to a head. If Taylor/McHale truly want to win this year, don’t they have to move swiftly? Otherwise they’ll be too far in the hole to even have a shot at 35 wins, and the culture of losing will be more entrenched.
Firing McHale and Wittman might even bring back some fans. I know I’d go to more games if Van Gundy was coaching and I didn’t fear the GM would screw up all future draft picks.
I got free tickets to the Saturday Wolves game, and I felt cheated out of my time, it must be harder for those who are paying for their tickets. The Target Center is a empty shell of what it was a couple of years ago, and I don’t think its all Kevin Garnett. I would love to see some scrappiness (sic) and hustle on the court, that would at least give me some reason to cheer. But at no point did I see any sense of urgency, high-tempo, or desire to win the game. Remember the Twins of the early 2000’s? They played with heart, and stuck to the fundamentals, and people started showing up once word got around. Right now we have decent talent, but no effort from them. Someone should remind them that people are actually paying to watch them play, so they may want to give at least 90%.
I think the results on #1 haven’t been so universally positive. One can look at each of the last four first-round draft picks and point out guys taken just a pick or two later who have done much betetr than the player we selected. I would also argue that we have a lot of duplication (Jefferson and Love, for starters).
The salary cap situation is substantially improved. The question is — do you trust McHale to use that wisely? I don’t.
Here’s some trivia for ya: didja know that the 2008-2009 T-Wolves were at one point 1 game over .500?
Yes after game # 1 against Sacramento
It was Taylor who got the call to initiate the trade for Love, etc.
He is so boxed in now, how can he fire McHale when he is partially to blame?
PLEASE PLEASE let go of McHale and Wittman, or just move to Seattle and let the fans rest in peace.
If the Lakers left Los Angeles and all the city had left was the Clippers this must be how they would feel
[…] http://www.startribune.com – […]
Kevin McHale is not the GM!!!
Jim Stack is the GM.
Kevin McHale is the President of Basketball Operations.
I know McHale still makes most of the decisions but GM is not his title.
The thing I seem to disagree with most of you about is that we have a better roster.
I agree that we have more talent…that’s obvious. But more talent doesn’t mean anything if it doesn’t blend well.
If you look at our roster, we are clearly lacking bookends (meaning quality point guards and centers), and the whole roster is slow, unathletic, and except for Brewer, unable to stand out defensively. We have no balance and no leadership. As someone else mentioned, we duplicate ourselves in several areas while leaving other areas completely unaddressed.
That’s why I think it’s not really Wittman. The way I see it, the roster just isn’t built to win no matter who’s coaching.
My appologies Mr jama. Can we replace McNugget with Fip Saunders and Wittless with Del Harris
Yes, thank you jama!! I’m sick of people calling McHale the General Manager. That’s why I always make it a point to differentiate between GM and VPO: Vice President of Operations.
Can anyone tell me what Flip is short for?
Now it’s eight straight losses, 90-84 at Denver
Posted on November 17th, 2008 – 12:21 AM
WHAT???????
This is not like the Wolves. If this keeps up, they might miss the playoffs ruining their stellar history.
I’m confident McHale, Taylor, and Whittman will turn this around like they’ve done in the past.
It’s nice to dream about what might have been (Roy and Mayo). But, if we draft Roy, we probably wouldn’t have even sniffed the #3 pick that netted us Mayo. I’m waiting for the lightbulb to go off. We will get better. We have better players Than last year. Does anybody deny that? But coach can’t seem to coach a win out of them. What does that tell you? Coach must go, along with McFail and our clueless owner.
Flip’s real name is Philip.
Thank’s Bryan
Flip is not a GM and isn’t a VPO either. He is a coach and will only be a coach. Plus he isn’t coming back to the Wolves. Move on
When was the last time this regime actually developed a player? I truly believe that McCants and Gomes have great potential if they were in a system that utilizes their skills and a coach who could actually teach them how to be good basketball players. That is why I feel for Love and Brewer. Foye, Richard, and Smith have regressed also. Big Al is a good offensive player, but is a subpar defender. Where is the overall improvement in these guys over the past year?
Jama,
Remind me why Flip is not with the Wolves again.
Who made that decision?
For those who say this team has no talent, I say again, how could they play so many “good” teams like Denver - who beat the Celtics - and Portland etc “even” or better in most of their games?
This team has talent.
You can pick apart individual draft of trade decisions if you want, but the roster has talent and their play [but not their record] shows it.
If they had won half of their close games and their record was 5 & 4, would every say this team had no talent?
If they had won all of their close games like the Celtics, and their record was 6 & 3 or 7 & 2, would anyone say the team had no talent?
Of course not!
We need a new coach.
A coach who can take the talent on this team and mold it into a winning team.
To this point, that does not appear to be wittman.
Fire Wittman!
Roberto El Doucho says:
November 17th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Jama,
Remind me why Flip is not with the Wolves again.
Who made that decision?
Yeah jama, whom got rid of Flip?
What did Flip do that was all that great?
He’s been to the playoffs 11 times between Minnesota and Detroit and hasn’t had a single team overachieve.
I’ll grant you he’s a better coach than Randy Wittman, but he’s hardly the second coming of Red Auerbach.
some in Wolves management look at all the close games and say, Wittman must be doing OK or we wouldn’t have so many close games!
If the wolves record was 4 & 5 or even 3 & 6, I’d give Wittman some more rope.
4 & 5 or even 3 & 6 would mean that the wolves had lost about 2/3 of their close games.
You could mae the argument that they were still a young team, learning to close out games.
But to lose virtually all of them, with so many very bad decisions at the end of the 4th quarter - especially how and when respond to late runs by the opponent — who to have on the floor, who to run plays for, who to be the floor leader, and it goes on….
We need a new coach!!
NOW!!
I live in the sticks so I purchased NBA League Pass because I was kind of excited about this team. I still like them even though they have been extremely frustrating to watch. Should we be surprised they don’t have a killer instinct?
NM:
Again, more talent doesn’t just automatically mean more wins. Reference the Sixers and Heat. Talent needs to be balanced, blended, and have someone to lead it to translate into wins, and we lack all three elements.
Wittman hasn’t done the greatest job, but our problems are a lot more serious and run a lot deeper than just the coach.
Bryan, I wonder what it would be like to have a player on the Wolves team with 10 steals in a game like Mario Chalmers did? Oh wait!?
Does anyone know much about Demetris Nichols who was waived by the Bulls?
I read that he is a Jason Kapono type spot up shooter. I wish that the Wolves had a roster spot to give him a try, but the Wolves can’t use another SF.
chalmers? LOL
you want chalmers?
30 minutes a game
6.6 pts
4.7 assists
2 turnovers
FG% 38%
FT% 56%
all three of the wolves point guards have been better on a per minute basis.
How can anyone really believe that this team is getting the other teams A game?
What I see is other teams laughing and toying with them until crunch time and beating them by as much as they want. The only answer is make McHale coach this bunch of mutts. If he fails, you can get rid of him along with the most offensive of the mutts. I like VanGundy or Avery Johnson.
As it stands now this team is absolutely unwatchable.
This is from a die hard NBA fan.
Tuck in your shirt pull up your pants and concentrate on doing your job and not how much of knucklehead you can portray.
When McHale traded Chalmers, we didn’t know the Love trade was going to happen. McHale is ok on that one…he said at the draft press conference that had we know we’d be able to get Love, he wouldn’t have traded Chalmers.
At any rate, Chalmers isn’t all that great anyway. Barely more of a point guard than Foye is. He looks solid, but most of that is simply being paired with DWade. Remember, even Damon Jones looked good next to Wade.
you must be blind or stupid?
If the team plays all of its games close right to the end even against the better teams in the league, the talent is there.
What the wolves lack is someone who can manage the team at the end of games.
If they had a great point guard, and an experienced team, the players could do it.
But they are a young team and need a good coach to help them make adjustments down the stretch.
Wittman, to this point, is NOT that person.
If Wittman was an average coach the wolves should have 3 or 4 wins.
If he was a great coach they would have 6, 7 or 8 wins.
Wittman is below average.
A WEAK COACH.
That needs to change.
Most likely we’ll have four picks in this years draft in the first round. Ours, Bostons, Utah’s, and Miami’s. Should we start working on some trades? Maybe package McCants and some other garbage along with picks for something useful?
Maybe we could get Marbury back.
And then one time at band camp………………………..
I’d actually prefer to keep all the picks we have. We don’t know where anyone will end up in the lottery obviously (and the Jazz won’t be in the lottery at all), so the more picks, the better the chances we get something good out of it all. Plus, unless I missed something, we still owe the Clippers a first rounder.
Looking at the draft and assuming we’re going to do pretty badly all year, there’s two guys I’d be gunning for if it was my call: Ricky Rubio and Hasheem Thabeet. And unless something drastic happens, Rubio will go first overall, so the more picks, the better chance we have of one of them landing in that first overall spot.
Because of the favorable salary cap situation, and all the picks available as mentioned by “pointless” above, the Wolves have alot of flexibility to change their roster and bring in one or two more big stars.
But to make good decisions, we need to better understand what the core of this team is now, who we want to keep and what holes we need to fill.
Love should be playing 35 minutes a game, plays run for him, let him get lots of experience. By the end of the season we should know if he can be the PF of the future and if he can play alongside Jefferson.
If Wittman had a clue, some decent rotations would be clear now.
Telfair has one of the best assist to turnover ratios in the NBA, but Wittman has no idea how to use him.
Can Foye play the point without make stupid errors at the end of games?
Can Brewer learn to shoot and play under control?
Who is the better “shooter” Miller or McCants?
Can Gomes play SF? Do you want him as a starter at SF?
Is collins helpful?
Is smith good for anything besides being another big body?
What combinations of players play best together?
*****Who do you want to finish games??? *****
Bryan, We do owe the CLips a 1st rounder, but it is top 10 protected. In all liklihood, we’ll have 6 picks nerxt year. the thing that worries me is you have to trade some. GM’s around the league must be licking their chops at having to trade with McFail. Here’s how the draft scenario plays out:
Wolves 2009 Draft Picks
First Round:
- Wolves Pick (protected Top 10) to the Clippers
- Miami’s Pick (protected Top 10)
- Boston’s Pick (protected Top 3)
- Utah’s Pick (protected Top 22)*
*See below for clarification.
Second Round:
- Wolves Pick goes to Detroit - Ronald Dupree trade
- Miami’s Picks (2) - Minnesota gets the two higher (worse) of Miami’s three second-round selections
Wolves 2010 Draft Picks
First Round:
- Wolves Pick (Protected Top 10) to the Clippers
- Miami’s Pick (protected Top 6)
- Boston’s Pick (Protected Top 2)
- Utah’s Pick (protected Top 15)
Second Round:
- Wolves Pick (protected top 55-60) - Goes to Philadelphia if Minnesota finishes among the league’s top five or six teams.
This means that Philly gets the pick if it’s between numbers 55-60, otherwise the Wolves keep it.
- Houston’s Pick (from the Gerald Green trade)
*The Utah Pick
Contrary to varying reports, the first-round pick Minnesota receives from Philly through Utah does not involve the New York Knicks. For the Wolves, the pick is protected in this manner: 2009 (22); 2010 (15); 2011 (17); 2012 (16); 2013 (16). If in the very unlikely case Utah struggles mightily for five years, Minnesota receives a second-round selection and significant cash considerations.
Wolves Have Another No. 1
- Minnesota also has the rights to a second No. 1 pick from Boston, a pick that was originally its own pick traded in the Wally Szczerbiak/Ricky Davis deal. This pick will take affect after the Wolves’ pick is resolved with the L.A. Clippers, and will come two years after the pick to the Clippers is granted. The reason here is that NBA teams cannot trade consecutive first-round picks.
What It All Means
Bottom line: Minnesota could have as many as four or as few as zero picks in 2009, while the 2010 pick situation depends almost entirely upon what happens in the 2009 draft.
For Minnesota to get all four first-round picks in 2009, the protection circumstances must go through in each case: Minnesota finishes in the league’s bottom 10 teams; Miami finishes outside of the league’s bottom 10 teams; Boston finishes outside of the league’s bottom three teams; Utah finishes among the league’s top eight teams. For Minnesota to get no picks, the exact opposite would need to happen.
Protected Pick Explanation: If you’re not familiar with the nuances of a “protected” pick, that designation signifies that a team will not have to forego its traded draft pick if it does not finish at a certain spot in the regular season standings. In other words, protected picks are a safeguard for a team that does worse than it expected.
Example: When the Heat made that trade (Antoine Walker, Michael Doleac, Wayne Simien and a (protected) first-round pick for Ricky Davis and Mark Blount) they included the condition that they could keep their pick if it were in the top 14 in 2008 (Michael Beasley, No. 2), top 10 in 2009, top 6 in 2010 and unprotected in 2011. But the sooner Miami is good, the sooner Minnesota gets its pick. If Minnesota gets Miami’s pick in 2009 (meaning the Heat finish outside of the league’s bottom 10 teams), it would no longer have Miami’s pick in 2010. Likewise for Boston and Utah, and with the team’s pick that goes to the Clippers if Minnesota finishes outside of the bottom 10.
Second-Rounders from Miami: Miami holds the rights to Indiana and Philadelphia’s second-round picks in 2009, in addition to its own. However, the draft-day trade from this past draft means that the Wolves get whichever two of those picks are higher*. So, if Indiana has the best record of those three teams, Minnesota will hold the picks of the other two teams.
*Higher here means not as good, or “worse.”
“Plus, unless I missed something, we still owe the Clippers a first rounder.”
Top Ten protected until the 2012 draft. Clippers arent getting our pick until 2012 guaranteed.
No way we can pick 4 first rounders. Lets package them and move up.
How can we move up? We’ll already have the #1 overall pick, unless the Clippers end up more woeful than us. Even McFail can’t screw that up, can he? #3 yes. But #1? Awww, who am I kidding? He’ll find a way.
Another kid to watch is Ohio State’s B.J. Mullens. He’s a talented 7 footer who was the #1 overall recruit this past year. From what I’ve read online (take it as you will), he has potential to be an absolute freak in the NBA. He is insanely athletic for his size (7-0 270 lb) and looks like he will be a true center. If he can polish his game there is a very good chance he will leave after this year.
I would love to make a package to get the #1 overall and get Rubio but would also be satisfied with taking Mullens or Thabeet with our top pick then picking the most talented PG left with our second pick b/c this years draft could be very deep for PG. Jrue Holiday or Darren Collison from UCLA or Ty Lawson from UNC might be available and could be solid PGs.
Like every other person has said, I really wonder how McHale will manage these picks. I think it should be a pretty good year to have so many picks. There looks like a lot of talent at the top that we could package to get. Demar Derozan (USC, think OJ Mayo) doesn’t fill a need (6-6, SG/SF) but would be hard to pass up b/c of his serious superstar potential.
Projected #1. Who knows where we’ll fall in the lottery. Based on just record, the Bulls should have picked 14th overall, but ended up picking first.
Based on that projection Mano, I’d say we’re looking at 3 first round picks then. I’m not sure where the Heat will land, but I’m pretty sure we’ll be one of the 10 worst teams in the league and there’s no way the Celtics are one of the three worst. And I’d bet good money the Jazz will be one of the top 8.
At any rate, moving up would have to wait until after the lottery.
I would love to have the top overall pick but with our luck in the lottery there is a better chance we will make the playoffs this year than get the #1 pick no matter how many ping pong balls we have.
“Demar Derozan (USC, think OJ Mayo) doesn’t fill a need (6-6, SG/SF) but would be hard to pass up b/c of his serious superstar potential.”
Huh??
You dont think this pathetic squad could use an athletic wing?
Miller, McCants and Foye dont qualify. We need a slashing wing.
We could conceivably move up post-lottery. I don’t know any team that would trade away the #1 overall pick, but you never know. We could have probably moved up to the #2 spot with the right deal this year…Pat Riley was obsessed with OJ Mayo and would have probably been willing to trade down if we offered the right deal.
“I would love to have the top overall pick but with our luck in the lottery there is a better chance we will make the playoffs this year than get the #1 pick no matter how many ping pong balls we have.”
Not only that but watch McHale fall in love with T. Hansborough. Tyler will tell McHale how he used to watch tapes of him growing up and McHale will piss his pants and start to blush.
If we end up with Tyler Hansborough I will burn everything Timberwolves I own on the sidewalk in front of the Target Center.
LOL. You guys are funny. Why don’t you stiop in sometime and post on the TWolves forum at the PioneerPress? Here’s the link. We could use a few new faces to share our pain. LOL.
http://forums.prospero.com/n/mb/listsf.asp?webtag=kr-tcitiessport&popup=&ctx=1&cacheTag=x35-34&ld=&sts=6%2F30%2F2008+7%3A35%3A50+PM
I don’t think we would be allowed to take Hansborough…. I’m pretty sure we’d break the limit for big, un-athletic white men on one team.
We’ve already got the market cornered for stupid white executives and coaches.
If I had a choice between Love and Hansborough I’d take TH. Hansborough can at least dunk. Im tired of seeing Love get rejected by the rim. He knew chocolate milk could have a long term effect on your verticle?
I just dont want McHale using the first pick on him.
“He knew chocolate milk could have a long term effect on your verticle?”
WHO knew chocolate milk….
Any chance we can trade McCants before next week?
No way we resign him is there? Not unless he tells McHale about how he used to watch tapes of him as a kid and paterned his game around him.
your comments about white people are racist!
Substitute white for black in the comments about and you will see what I mean.
It is just as offensive to be racist against white people as the reverse.
Eventhough I made no such comments about white people, would it make a difference if you knew I was an unathletic white man?
Take a break from your liberal soap box for a minute and enjoy the complete incomptence of this team.
Im no mathamatician but I believe this holds true O.J.Mayo > Love + Miller. OJ has be rediculous for so early in his rookie year. Lightyears beyond eiher Love or Miller, when you’re this bad you need to draft for talent over need. I still don’t understand why we traded a great outside scorer for power forward, Jeffersons natural position.
The bball minds that are usually solid have dissipated (sp?)towards the end of this blog: but maybe we’ve all noticed one common theme about the pups and that is that whether he should stay or go can anyone seriously say that Wittman has done anything to help his team win when they are on the floor? His substition patterns and player combos are erratic to say the least, we never score on diagramed in bounds plays, we get beat at the ends of quarters, halves and most notably games and down the stretch we look lost.
I thought trying to put the loss on Love’s missed layups towards the end of the 3rd was both weak and shameless - besides, as Love noticed and correctly pointed out, we pushed the lead back to 9.
Bottom line - we are being out coached each and every night.
I posted one other time here and I won’t go there again, but someone needs to make the connection between a simultaneous problem at PG and with the coach. It’s like a bad QB and coach in football (sounds familiar round these parts, doesn’t it).
Last point: reading the comments, it’s easily discernible that this blog has
a) solid basketball minds with good and valid opinions and
b) the passion shown here is reflective of the major disappointment our beloved wolfies have been thus far.
I’ve been a fan for all 20 years, and far and away this is the most disappointed I’ve been this early in any season.
OJ>Love. I agree that OJ is playing well, but he demands the ball and is a 6-4 two guard. Not that that size is wrong, but we’ve got a Foye and McCants who offer pretty much the same thing.
Again, I’m not going to knock Mayo, but I think Love should be envisioned as a Bill Laimbeer type: a glue guy, who does the little things, rebounds, hussles and makes smart basketball plays. One thing I’ve noticed is that the best person on the entire team at getting Al the ball in a position to score is Love which is really a testament to his all around skill. Check it out next time they are on the floor together.
^ Fail, Love and Jefferson shouldn’t be playing together, no defense no shot blocking, Mayo is better than both Love and Mike Miller right now because Miller doesn’t get enough minutes or shots and Love shouldn’t be on the court with Jefferson at anytime. It seems like Mayo is almost playing as many minutes a game as both Love and Miller.
Glue guys are not normally drafted in the top 5
The wolves defense has NOT been the primary problem this season.
It has been late game offense.
They have had double digit leads mid-way through the fourth period and not scored.
Jefferson and Love on the floor has played good defense. [Note is actually a decent defender for a 20 y.o.]
Most of the opponents scoring hasn’t been by their “bigs” when Jefferson and Love are on the floor. It has been guys like Roy and Chauncey - our vaunted “stopper” Brewer hasn’t stopped anyone.
What Love needs is a coach who believes in him, who will let him play and make mistakes and some time on the floor where he’s not waiting to be “yanked” for missing a shot.
If Foye was in Memphis I think he would be averaging 18 pts and 10 rebounds, which is better production than Mayo with the rebounds.
NM
You are so wrong. Defense has been a huge and primary problem this year. The Wolves are giving up 101.9 points per game. That is horrible, it is the 6th worst in the NBA. How you can say defense isn’t the primary problem is laughable. Yes their offense has struggled in the 4th quarter but if they wouldn’t give up so many points they wouldn’t have to worry about scoring 102 points a night.
