Old over new: Wolves lose 100-90 to Bobcats in Charlotte
Posted on December 1st, 2008 – 11:39 PMBy Jerry Zgoda
The Wolves played out without Corey Brewer’s energy but what they lacked mostly, if you listened to Randy Wittman, were enough players willing to follow the game plan.
That’s why Brian Cardinal was out there in the third quarter, or so Wittman said. And why Kevin Ollie, back from his calf injury, led the offense for 10 second-half minutes while Randy Foye moved over to two guard.
The Wolves committed 14 first-half turnovers, just four after intermission. Foye had three turnovers, all in the first half, and four assists, all in the second half. The Wolves trailed by seven at halftime and never recovered.
“I don’t think it has anything to do with energy,” Wittman said. “It’s just a matter of executing the game plan. You have an idea where you want to attack from an offensive standpoint and where you’ve got to take their strengths away from a defensive standpoint. You’ve got to do those things. We lacked in the game plan.”
“I’ve got to find some guys — and probably some veteran guys — who are going to follow the game plan and what we want done.”
Al Jefferson didn’t reach double-figured scoring — he scored eight — for the first time this season and admitted to being “messed up” by a tactic Oklahoma City used Friday, Denver borrowed in the second half Saturday and Charlotte repeated Monday: He said it’s a stunting strategy where defenders will bluff double teaming him — sometimes they come, sometimes they don’t — and he said he has to be aggressive and attack it to defeat it, something he obviously didn’t do tonight.
He did get a career-high six blocked shots, a fact that made Wittman look at the stat sheet twice. He pulled Jefferson with 3:44 left in the game after Emeka Okafor scored on three consecutive Charlotte possessions and afterward said “they had guys who wanted it more down the stretch.”
A couple other things:
The Wolves look awfully un-athletic, even against a Charlotte team that isn’t the most athletic in the league, and will be even more so with Brewer out for the season. Rodney Carney, the best athlete left probably, played six minutes.
Kevin McHale is along on this trip, too. That’s two in a row for him. When asked why he’s out on the road with the team, he stammered a bit and said he just wants to be closer to the guys.
I made a rookie mistake at the game’s start and took just one pen with me to the press seating area near the top of the first deck at what used to be called Bobcats Arena. Of course, the pen ran out immediately. Halfway through the first quarter, I went back downstairs and followed the maze of hallways underneath toward the press room. As I turned into the corner, I literally ran into Michael Jordan, one of the Bobcats’ owners. He was wearing, of course, a really nice suit (gold, I think) and looks like he has gained quite a bit of bulk since his playing days.
I took the charge for the team.
132 Responses to "Old over new: Wolves lose 100-90 to Bobcats in Charlotte"
sounds to me like mcfail is evaluating his coach.
I like Stein’s take from ESPN…
“The voices calling for the Wolves to try to rehire Flip Saunders before someone else grabs him might be onto something. Flip knows how to work with Glen Taylor and McHale, who don’t appear to be going anywhere.”
Jerry, didn’t that seem like a textbook case of showcasing players? We knew McCants would play more, but Cardinal, and Ollie ?! McCants sure didn’t help his chances in getting traded.
I feel like the season is in limbo until some issues are settled. Who is the head coach going to be? Will McHale finally admit defeat and move on? Will McCants finally be moved before he can leave as a FA?
This is just a mess. Too many white players, jk, but Miller and Love aren’t exactly fleet of foot. I love miller on offense but against teams like bobcats with J-rich and Gerald Wallace, he can’t guard either of them.
Jerry, why doesn’t Rodney Carney play more?
Also, Hoopsworld is reporting we’re close to a deal with the Cats that will essentially send McCants and Collins to Charlotte for Raymond Felton. Granted, Hoopsworld isn’t the most reliable of sources, but we’ve been linked to the Cats in trades by a lot of sites now and this one makes sense….kind of. The Cats get the big body they want (well, Collins is big….) and unload a guy they probably feel is just getting in Augustin’s way at this point.
Why they’d think Collins is their solution at center is beyond me though. But hey, if we can get a guy of Felton’s caliber for him and clowny McCants, I’m all for it.
Also, I want to highlight a comment of Jerry’s that particularly stands out to me.
Yes. We are PITIFULLY unathletic.
I hold this as Exhibit A in the “Is McHale out of touch with the modern NBA?” trial. The verdict? Guilty.
Why McHale thinks we can win with no centers, no point guards and no athletes is more beyond me than why the Cats would choose to solve their big man problem with Collins.
I’m starting to think he thinks Love/Jefferson is the next Bird/himself.
Saunders did say he was way too obsessed with who he was as a player back in the day…
[…] On the Wolves – […]
Kevin McHale made the T-wolves in his own image. And on the seventh day, he rested.
Just when it looks like the wolves are on the cusp of making a deep playoff run for the 19 year in a row, another setback by a top notch team.
Damn it!
I wonder if McHale was offered a contract extention, if it would spark this group of “champions?”
Oh well. I’m sure they will turn it around…..like they always do.
Felton is only making 4.1 million per season. McCants is making 2.6 million and Collins is making 6.2 million. The salaries don’t add up unless we take on some higher-priced pieces from Charlotte in addition to Felton. Felton looked pretty good against us with 14 points and 14 assists. I doubt that McCants and Collins looked too enticing to the Charlotte GM from watching last night’s game.
Hoopsworld???? C’mon what a load of garbage.
I know this is going to sound absurd, but who is a worse man to man defender, Al Jefferson or Randy Foye? I think the main problem with the defense is that they can’t stop dribble penetration and most of that is coming from the opposing teams Point Guard. Felton blew past Foye whenever he wanted. This penetration leads to easy layups and wide open 3 pointers.
Whittman basically admitting the players aren’t playing for him is not a good sign. I like the guy personally, but he just doesn’t seem to get much out of his players. The problem is, who do they go get?
I would love to see Flip back, but I don’t see that happening with McFail still around.
If Wittman gets fired during the season, McHale or Sichting will be the new coach.
Flip isn’t going to join a team mid-season. He’s still getting paid by the Pistons, and he’s going to want to look at his options in the offseason. Why would he want to come back here after the way he’s been thrown under the bus by McHale and Taylor the last three years?
If you want to get rid of McHale, bring Flip back. No way will Kevin work with him. If Flip does come back I will turn my season tickets in the next day!
McCants/Collins for Felton/Morrison works from a cap perspective.
I’m not sure I would endorse it, but I could see McHale doing it.
I would endorse that trade with the Charlotte. Felton would be the starting PG, they could probably flip Morrison to another team for an expiring contract or another draft pick.
I think Randy Wittman is doing a great job. We have to look at this big picture, and that is to get a high draft pick in 2009. To look at this as the glass is half full, as bad as the Wolves are, there are even worse teams out there.
The trade with Memphis was once again another draft day failure. Either the team drafts the wrong guy (see Wally World, McCants, etc.), or they draft the right guy (Ray Allen, Brandon Roy and OJ Mayo) and trades them for the wrong player.
Maybe we can just hope that the owner changes the guys at the top and the head coach or sells the team. To look at this as the glass is half empty, if nothing changes, the Wolves will mess up the draft again and could be the worst team in the league by the end of the season. Did Glen really do us a favor by keeping the team here?
When players tune out the coach, coach is usually fired soon after, since they can’t fire the team.
Flip is too good of a coach to lead the team for a nimrod like McFail. I just wish McFail would finally get fired. I will start screaming at the sky from my desk at work. “FIRE MCFAIL PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD”.
The Wolves are plain hard to watch, there doesn’t seem to be any light at the end of the tunnel right now, and Wittman looks more lost each passing game, something needs to be done and fast or else the franchise will sink deeper and deeper and the fans will stay away until steps are made to correct this mess.
They mentioned on FSN that McFail and Air Jordan where seen talking. Then Witt plays Cardinal and Ollie which is strange. Sounds like they where showing these players to Bobcats. I read that if Wolves picked Ahearn instead of Ollie that the bobcats would sign Ollie. Don’t understand why they would be interested in Cardinal. I would approve of the felton/morrison trade because the wolves need a point guard badly. They wouldn’t miss collins or mccants. Morrison wouldn’t play until or if he can ever move again. He wasn’t that swift before his bad injury. He played on smarts…kind of like love.
Del Harris? Kurt Rambis?
I don’t see McHale getting let go mid-season. Think the more likely scenario is he takes over for Wittman in a last ditch effort to get some quality play out of the team. If (and only if) they still flounder with him as coach, then I think he may get the boot.
I don’t think any respectable coach would come mid-season.
1.) Jeff Van Gundy - #1 on list in accomplishments
2.) Hubie Brown - #1 in overall basketball IQ
3.) Lenny Wilkins - All-time winningest coach in NBA history
4.) Avery Johnson - COY
5.) Mike Fratello
6.) Paul Silas
7.) Eddie Jordan
8.) Doug Collins
9.) Flip Saunders
10.) Bernie Bickerstaff
11.) Sam Vincent
A lot of good candidates there. I personally want to see all new blood from top to bottom (i.e. no Fred H. as GM). Avery Johnson seems intriguing to me. Tom Thebidau (sp?) from the Celtics too.
Can we just all agree that Mchale is if not the worst at least tied for the worst GM in the last 20 years. We all know on here how atrocious everything he has done has been besides KG. How can we stage a protest to get this monumental failure fired. I will not rest until he is gone. In my mind he has tarnished all that he ever did as a player with his GMing days. Millen and Mchale, Millen and Mchale.
FIRE MCFAIL!!!
Did anyone hear the announcers last night complaining that there was no atmosphere in Charlotte and that no fans showed up for the game? Why don’t they start ripping the Target Center for this? Maybe then Glen would realize how bad it has gotten with the Wolves. There is no way that last nights game could have been any quiter than a couple of the Wolves games this year.
“Why don’t they start ripping the Target Center for this? Maybe then Glen would realize how bad it has gotten with the Wolves.”
Still too many Swan’s out there willing to chear for a looser.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Jerry Sichting take over for Wittman–the team seemed to play pretty well for him last year when Wittman missed a few games after his back went out.
What you people all fail to see, is that this team is destined to lose under the Taylor ownership. There has been nothing in their history that would indicate any change.
Find a new sport/team/college to embrace.
The wolves are the Detroit Lions of the NBA.
Speculation about drafts, coaches, trades are a complete waste of time and energy. McHale is an idiot, Taylor is senile, and Wittman isn’t qualified to coach kids.
Let it go.
Why don’t the Wolves announcers criticize the Target Center crowd? Simple.
Hanneman and Petersen are paid by the Wolves.
Find a new sport/team/college to embrace.
The wolves are the Detroit Lions of the NBA.
Speculation about drafts, coaches, trades are a complete waste of time and energy. McHale is an idiot, Taylor is senile, and Wittman isn’t qualified to coach kids.
Let it go.
I grew up rooting for the underdog and never giving up on a team. But I think I may have to go back to the Clipper’s the Sun’s and the Laker’s to view how a team should be ran and should play. The Wolves only made one good choice in the franchise history. Drafting KG and what do they do with him. Trade him for a bunch of spare parts. Wolves stink!!!
Sean
KFAN employess are payed by the Wolves too and they have no problem telling it like it is. It is nearly impossible not to point out the flaws in this team. How do Hanneman and Petersen get through a whole broadcast without saying one negative thing about the organization? Do they even talk about basketball?
Oh Yeah and KLove is this years Adam Morrison
I haven’t listened to the radio broadcasts so I can’t speak to how they handle the team.
Given that Petersen is now becoming even more involved with the organization (he’s going to be an assistant coach with the Lynx), I think the chances of him criticizing Taylor and McHale are pretty much nil.
Hanneman was out of a job before he was hired by the Wolves. Don’t think he’ll be spouting off, either.
ok, mchale doesn’t have a clue. miller is just who his stats say he his and he can’t guard anyone. our bain trust doesn’t have a clue, if you can’t build a team around garnett how can you build one around jefferson? especially when you trade the most talented player in the draft for one who plays the exact same position as your best player then fail to develop a point guard and keep a coach who can’t motivate his players, then accuses them of lack of hustle or failure to follow the game plan. repeatedly you see players getting the ball in place where they are ineffective, their spacing is horrible and they only have three plays. the way mchale keeps his job is he hires subordinates (wittman,hoiberg,sichting they’re all the same guy) who are less qualified than he is so they remain thankful and loyal to his addle-brained decisions. you get what you pay for. the only logical conclusion is taylor his happy with his results. it’s obvious that they don’t have the brain power, finances or business acumen to fix the problem so i suggest we learn to root for the opposition until we get a new owner or lose the team.
I would like to see the wolves try to trade Foye instead of McCants. I think that McCants has the talent to be a pretty good player, maybe he just needs a better coach? or maybe he needs a change of scenery to realize his potential. but if thats true trading him to the bobcats for Felton would be a great move. Felton is a good PG and they bobcats dont really need him now that they have augustin.
Go Clipper’s!!!
trade McHail for pair of sneakers
I have been a wolves fan since the first tap back in 1989. I was at the game, when they won their first franchise win over Rick Mahorn and the 76iers. Tony Campbell and the gang played with Passion. At least when KG was here, he brought lot of passion to the game. Now this is the worst possible team, in ALL of professional Sports, Including Detroit Lions, as they got rid of the Stiff Milan!!!!. What amazes me is that, with ALL the basketball knowledge that McHale claims to be possessing, he seems to be getting the wrong deal done continuously. Firing Casey was a bad move, if the player(s) is not listening, send them home packing (Sprewell). Unless your last name Jordan or Johnson, you better listen and follow throug on the game plan. Wittman is a nice guy, but, don’t know he is the problem. Bring Flip Back, move Mchale to a cushy VP position (Cannot evaluate Players or Coaches for Draft or Trade), and please get rid of stiffs that are not listening. Foye, Jefferson, Gomes and Smith are the core. Everyone else should be calling their realtors!
“KFAN employess are payed by the Wolves too and they have no problem telling it like it is.”
Are you serious? You dont see the destinction?
Try looking at the job descriptions. Example:
Barreiro is an OPINION journalist, who comments on all aspects of MN sports.
Peterson is a color commentator charged with making the broadcast entertaining.
So, the GM takes a rare road trip with the team and the coach just threw the whole team under the bus. If this were a normal franchise, you would say that a change was coming soon. Since this is the Wolves, I can only assume that contract extensions are on the way…
Brian Cardinal licks Carl Pohlads baseball’s
“If this were a normal franchise, you would say that a change was coming soon.”
Theres probably some good restaurants or golfing on the next road trip. That would be my guess.
I loved to see Flip return, as he was the main cog that gave this team any chance on the non-playing side of the court. Plus, it’d show me that McHale and Taylor are willing to admit to their bigger mistakes and not just the small ones. I never got Whittman anyways. Always seemed like a good assistant type, and can not blame him for going for the top as we all do. But there comes a day when you have to accept this is what I am best at and do that.
Who do we have? We have a good role players in Foye and Miller. We have no stars. Jefferson would make a good team great, but he cannot put a team on his back like Garnett could.
This roster is a mess.
The head coach, who has never been a winner, is worse. Dump Wittman, and trade McCants and Gomes for someone with a heart.
Go Clipper’s!!!
That’s it coach….Throw the players under the bus. This whole organization sucks. Just leave.
If I were Flip I wouldn’t come back here unless they gave me Phil Jackson type money.
Agreed Jimmy. If I were Flip, screw the T-bombs. They dumped him, why should he come back?
How is this roster a mess ? No long term contracts and holes to fill. Cap space coming up and a bunch of draft picks. Whats not to like ? Keep the good players ditch the others. Need to get that giant Russian over here pronto.
Who the hell are the good players?
Arent the Wolves still paying Casey? You really think they’ll pay Casey, Whittman and then a THIRD coach?
Wake up people. This is the life you’ve chosen as a Wolves fan. Its not getting better.
We need to stage a public act of outrage that lets everyone in the T’Wolves organization know how completely pathetic this operation is. I say we wear the brown paper bags to a game with “Fire Everyone” written acrossed the front. However, I’m not dumb enough actually buy a ticket to one of these games, so maybe it should be done on 1st Ave. in front of the Target Center. Maybe during a game?
Swan Dizzle….WAKE UP!!!!!! None of the top-tier FAs will want to be here. There are 25 other teams clearing cap space for the same group of upcoming free agents. And great, more draft picks…are you the ONE, ONLY person in the state with the faith that correct decisions will be made there? They’ll be used as trade currency to pick up another indifferent veteran.
“How is this roster a mess ?”
This Roster, 2008 - 09? Are you serious? Where do you want to start? No C, No SG, No PG for starters….
“No long term contracts and holes to fill.”
No long term deals, check.
Holes to fill? Starting PG, Wing, Defense, Center etc etc and on and on. More holes to fill than Jenna Jamison.
” Whats not to like ?”
You’ve lost your mind.
Will - I am awake. We’ll get someone with the cap space. It’ll be a role player most likely. And I do think we’ll get someone good out of the draft this year. Unless we package them up for someone & Cardinal’s contract.
Okay, how the hell did Will get credit for my genious retort to Swan’s ridiculous post? Nice blog softwarte Strib….
Geezus…
Reading this article, I had to laugh. We have got to be, let me be nice, one of the weakest teams ever (next to the Thunder). We are paying these guys millions of dollars and they can barely hit a shot, defend, or get a rebound. WT??
I agree with Will. I am going to start wearing a paper bag over my head at the home games from now. Yes..I am a season ticket holder. Heck, I left 4 tickets, at the last home game, on the outside of my car. I returned to find my 4 plus 8 others!!!! We are sorry. At least I can win games on NBA2K9
Witt has to be the worst coach in the NBA.
If the players are not following the game plan it is apparent that they do not respect the coach and his game plan. It is time to fire the coach and McHale and bring back Flip as coach and GM. Flip can get the most out of his players and more than likely can do a better job than McHale too.
Taylor has to look at this team as a product and right now the product is poor and changes need to be made.
Will - You read that incorrectly…I meant with the cap space and draft picks we HAVE holes to fill and I think we can do that. How do you know no one will come here ? When is the last time the Wolves had cap space to prove this theory of yours ? Never ? Its kind of hard when you’re “superstar” player is taking 45% of the cap.
Are you of the mindset that this team was constructed to “win now” ? If you are of course you are going to be disappointed. This team is built to improve on last year, get rid of cap space and long term contracts…then once management figures out who the keepers are its their job to cut the fat or get some value in return.
Hopefully they won’t make the mistake of overpaying and crippling our cap space with a KGesque contract.
This is the first time in probably 10 years the Wolves have had significant cap space, draft picks and no stupid long term contracts…aka whats not to like ?
I like it and right now I’m happier than the KG + no flexibility in the roster / cap era.
“Okay, how the hell did Will get credit for my genious retort to Swan’s ridiculous post?”
“genious” retort. 
[…] http://www.startribune.com – […]
The problem the Wolves have is that most of their questions are being answered in the wrong way. Randy Foye is looking lost at point guard. Rashad McCants has played himself to the fringes of the rotation. Corey Brewer was only somewhat improved before his injury. Kevin Love has underachieved thus far. Mike Miller has underachieved thus far. Al Jefferson hasn’t taken the next step in his game.
“How do you know no one will come here ?”
Forget for a second that you’re in love with the Wolves, the kind of love a catholic has for Mary. Would you come here? There are several teams with cash available to sign people. All the best players will stay home or sign under more favorable conditions elsewhere. We’ll end up paying too much for second tier aged talent. Grant Hill do anything for you?
“This is the first time in probably 10 years the Wolves have had significant cap space, draft picks and no stupid long term contracts…aka whats not to like ?”
Ummmmmm, McHale? You think he can pull it off?
“nathan says:
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Witt has to be the worst coach in the NBA.”
I will rank Coaches who stink in top 3 order
Louis “Red” Klotz Washington Generals
Norv Turner Inherets Superbowl teams and then turns them into garbage. How he still has a job is beyond me
Wittman from the Wolves
That is my order of worst 3 current sports coaches
Sean - How has Mike Miller underachieved when he is performing the way he has performed pretty much his entire career ?
Pointless - “Ummmmmm, McHale? You think he can pull it off?”
I give him one chance in 20 of doing everything right.
Regardless, I am just excited that we have cap space, spots to fill, draft picks etc. Its more fun to think about than the “Who can we get for the midlevel to help KG, Mike James ? Do it !” years.
Jim bee - Dunleavy.
Mike Miller hasn’t shot the ball enough. He ought to be averaging 18 ppg on this team, but he’s not because he isn’t going for his shot.
I realize he’s all about taking only good shots, but he’s the best shooter on the team. He needs to be assertive and if anyone is going to force an outside shot it should be him, not Foye or McCants or Telfair.
I had a headache when Wolves traded Roy for Foye, stomach ache when they traded OJ Mayo, and heart attack when the hero of college basketball, Chalmers was here and then like all our hopes, gone in a McFlash. Wolves nation doesn’t feel so good, please do something Glen before we are gone for good.
Wow this is atleast the second time our beloved head coach has admitted that his team is not listening to him….sounds like it is time for a change. Mcfale and the hole staff should be dismissed for all of their failings. Flip would be a step in the right direction but only if McFale is gone.
“I give him one chance in 20 of doing everything right.”
Thats generous.
“Regardless, I am just excited that we have cap space, spots to fill, draft picks etc. Its more fun to think about than the “Who can we get for the midlevel to help KG, Mike James ? Do it !” years.”
This coming from the guy who said “Whats not to like?” in reference to this ratty squad. You’ve moved from a diarhea sandwhich to a solid BM sandwich and your response is whats not to like? You really love McHale dont you?
Your expecation level for whats acceptable management is pathetic.
“This coming from the guy who said “Whats not to like?” in reference to this ratty squad.”
In reference to not just the 12 players we got. I like some of the pieces and like the financial flexibilty we have now plus the draft picks.
McHale as the player I loved, I also like him as a big man coach. Not as anything else though.
“In reference to not just the 12 players we got.”
Saying “Whats not to like” assumes there is nothing wrong. There is PLENTY wrong with this squad.
“I also like him as a big man coach”
WHAT???!!!! Who has he ever developed into a quality big? Dont say KG. McHale had nothing to do with KG’s development. Anyway KG almost never played on the block.
“WHAT???!!!! Who has he ever developed into a quality big? Dont say KG. McHale had nothing to do with KG’s development. Anyway KG almost never played on the block.”
He got the Spurs to waste $50 on Rasho !
Swan,
It is Pointless to engage Pointless.
Wally -
I’m at work and bored ! Pointless responds faster than the rest of you !
Nobody answered my question from earlier. Who’s a worse man to man defender, Jefferson or Foye?
Carry on Swan!!
jama I haven’t paid that much attention to either one on defense to give you my honest answer. I would say Foye though isn’t rebounding a form of deffense and jefferson seems pretty good at that
jama,
I say the worse defender is Jefferson. No scientific explanation or stats to back it up, just saying…
Jama - Foye.
I would say Foye is probably worse. But making that kind of choice is rather like debating which are the two worst ways to die.
Sean - I’d rather die from someone abusing Jefferson than someone abusing Foye….if an opposing PG is abusing Foye then people are going to have to help off their guy…its worse to have an opposing PG rolling than an opposing big I think.
We need a great defensive PG.
“It is Pointless to engage Pointless.”
There is no point in arguing against the truth. If that’s what you mean then you have a point.
Lucky for you Swan you’ll never ahve to choose. You get to see both those stiffs get abused.
Lucky for you swan you’ll never have to choose. You get to see both those stiffs get abused on a nightly basis.
“We need a great defensive PG.”
Cue the penut gallery whinning about Chalmers…..
I cannot envision any great coach committing to the Twolves as long as McHale in present. Simply stated, it would be insulting, degrading and frustrating for a top-drawer coach to sign-on. The first step required to grab the attention of a quality head-coach is the complete removal of McHale. Allowing him to retain a token VP role in the organization is insufficient. In short, let’s forget all talk of a new coach until Problem #1 is resolved.
Swan Dizzle-
The cap space means nothing for the Twolves. When was the last time a big name FA signed with a MN sports team? I’m not talking about a trade or resigning a guy but a legit FA that a MN sports team went out and was able to sign? And you might be able to come up with some Viking but the NFL is a bit different since (1)there are so many roster spots to a team, (2)marketability isn’t as big of a priority for NFL players and (3) the fan base is great but it is everywhere else too.
The problem with the Twolves is that they are in a small market (look at KG’s Twolves jersey sales and Celtics jersey sales, HUGE difference), the fan base is disappearing like crazy, and management has yet to show any competence and ability to get it done.
Everyone’s talking about the FA class of 2010 but we’re not the only ones with cap space then. If you were a FA, where would you want to play: Detroit, New Jersey, or New York to name a few. And even if a team like Phoenix were to lose Amare to New York lets say, then Phoenix now has a ton of cap room.
Besides most FAs sign with their original team anyways because they can get the biggest contract that way.
“I’m not talking about a trade or resigning a guy but a legit FA that a MN sports team went out and was able to sign?”
Steve Hitchinson, Jarred Allen
Pointless - At least with Jefferson I get to see some sweet low post work being done on offense. Probably my favorite thing to watch. Haven’t seen sweet moves on the low block like this since Hakeem and the Good McHale (player).
Re: Foye. This draft will be key if we want to rid ourselves of Foye after next season (when he is restricted). We need to get a good PG (on both ends of the floor)…then we can keep Bassy as a backup and either completely rid ourselves of Foye or sign him as our backup SG.
Pointless - Didn’t we have to trade for Allen ? Or was that because of some franchise tag or something ?
Just dreaming but : KG + Ray Allen + Brandon Roy + OJ Mayo . I’m thinking we COULD have had some real athletes , that don’t like to loose , and would step up and do something about it . Not any of the timber pups seem to care From Taylor Mcfail & Wittless .
And blame KG for his huge contract as to why we couldnt sign anyone. Yet look at KG’s contract now. Its bigger and he has a title. With 2 others with huge contracts. In fact look at Duncan and Shaq. Both have huge contracts and had huge contracts when they won championships. One guy with a huge contract doesn’t mean you now can’t win because of it. In fact its a good sign to have a guy with a max deal. You can’t win without one of the very best of players and if you have one or two or maybe even three guys with huge deals it probably means you’re in the playoffs and actually competing for a championship.
So then who deserves the blame if its not KG’s contract? McHale! Why? Because if you have a guy of two with huge contracts and competing it also then means you probably have some key players on your team still playing under a rookie contract or their second contract which also has a limit to it. Example: The Celtics would never have won last year without Rando and Perkins, both of whom were on their rookie deals. So why is that important? Because McHale sucks in the draft and got all our draft picks taken away for so many years!!!
Nice try Pointless but Allen we traded for and if you read ALL of my post you would have read the part where the NFL is a bit different. A Hutchinson signing is a big signing for the football team but when you really look at it as a signing goes, what does an offensive lineman need a big time market for? And I believe we offered more than Seattle (with poison pills hehe). Signing a NFL offensive lineman is not like going out and signing Lebron James or Alex Rodriguez or something.
Storms - The Celtics had expiring contracts / young guys and picks to trade to get KG & Allen…the Wolves never did…and the one time they did have the contracts to make trades they did with Spree and Sammy…and we were Sammy’s bum hip away from the title.
“Didn’t we have to trade for Allen ?”
Sign and trade.
Swan — perhaps you missed the Oklahoma City game where the Wolves had to double Chris Wilcox in the low post because Jefferson couldn’t guard him. So bad defense hurts no matter where it is.
“Signing a NFL offensive lineman is not like going out and signing Lebron James or Alex Rodriguez or something.”
Then try and phrase the question properly with conditions. Say what you mean in other words. The question was “a legit FA that a MN sports team went out and was able to sign?”
Is Hutchinson not legit?
If you want to exclude offensive linemen just say so. I hate yeah but yeah but yeah buts…
Anyway, relax. Im with you. I dont think there is any chance in hell a single top tier free agent signs here.
Sean - Yes, but the PG is the main distributor and gets others more involved….having him go off with pts and assists is worse in my eyes…its lead to more problems this year as I see it.
Re: Foye. If the Wolves had drafted competently in recent years (not to mention traded KG at the right time instead of waiting too long), they could have the following roster:
C: Tyson Chandler/Joakim Noah/Mark Blount
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge/Craig Smith/Mark Madsen
SF: Danny Granger/Luol Deng
SG: Brandon Roy/Trenton Hassell
PG: O.J. Mayo/Mario Chalmers/Marko Jaric
This would have happened based on the rumored Bulls trade that McHale turned down that would have given the Wolves Chandler, Deng and the #2 pick for KG one year earlier than the Wolves actually traded him, picking Granger instead of McCants, picking Noah instead of Brewer, and keeping Roy, Mayo, and Chalmers instead of trading them.
The “bad” contracts of Blount, Jaric and Hassell would all be off the books by 2010 — just as our worst deals today expire by then.
Now, would you rather have this team or the one we actually have today?
Swan-
I think my point was missed with my Celtics example. That was not an example for signing free agents, but wasn’t it you who was blaming KG and his huge contract for the Wolves lack of success? My point was to be a winner in the NBA you NEED a couple guys with huge contracts (which hopefully means they are some of the very best players, e.g. KG, Pierce and Allen) and also some young talent under low contracts like rookie contracts still (like Rando and Perkins).
Pointless-
I know you’re on my side with this. When I said my original comment, I was trying to say a city like Minneapolis can’t go out and grab FAs and to show my point it really hasn’t been done. But I knew if I were to say it just like that someone would jump on me and point out some Viking over the past few years. However, the NFL is a lot different than the NBA and MLB. Same (general) rules like a city’s market size and fan base don’t apply. For the most part, individuals are not marketed in the NFL like MLB and NBA and every team in the NFL has a huge fan base, especially since there’s 8 home games a season.
Sean-
No offense but you get the award for most stupid post of the day. If we had made that trade with Chicago, then chances are we would have never been in the draft position to take Roy. If we had kept Roy, we would never have had the 3rd pick in last years draft to draft Mayo. Hell if we had drafted Roy, he was just good enough that it might have dissuaded McHale from trading KG in the first place! With a core of KG and Roy, McHale might have been persistent enough to keep KG and try to build on those two.
“This would have happened based on the rumored Bulls trade that McHale turned down that would have given the Wolves Chandler, Deng and the #2 pick for KG one year earlier than the Wolves actually traded him, picking Granger instead of McCants, picking Noah instead of Brewer, and keeping Roy, Mayo, and Chalmers instead of trading them.”
This is a totally uselss exercise. Hows to say we have the same picks if anything goes down the way it did. You cant assume that if we make that trade we are even in the area to pick Roy. After that we certainly dont have the third pick for Mayo.
“but wasn’t it you who was blaming KG and his huge contract for the Wolves lack of success?”
It was not.
” My point was to be a winner in the NBA you NEED a couple guys with huge contracts”
Obviously.
Sorry, thought you were talking to me.
Well, certainly there are some valid criticisms to the post (although the Wolves would have still been in position to keep Roy). But what is does show is the litany of mistakes McHale has made. Undo just one or two of those bad moves and you have a situation that it quite a bit different than what we have today. McHale has consistenly made the wrong move when it has counted most.
Now thats a post I can agree with!
Let me remind all that the Wolves didn’t really draft Ray Allen or Brandon Roy. They drafted them because somebody else saw their talent and worked a deal with the Wolves in advance of the selections. Left to their own devices, I’m guessing they wouldn’t known what to do.
Jerry,
Congrats on your brush with his greatness! You seem very suspicious of McHale being on the trip. Do you feel that it may have to do with the coach or a trade?
Hoiberg takes McHales spot, Avery Johnson takes Wittmans spot then we’ve got something worth working with.
The wolves are lacking talent in only three positions:
1. Front office
2. Coach
3. Players
They actually have one good starter (Jefferson) and a few good reserve-level players (Gomes, Foye, Brewer for defense, Love, Smith, and Miller).
The first thing we need is a GM a who knows how to evaluate talent. Next a coach.
we’re just one zach randolph and one stephon marbury away from a championship.
“Hoopsworld is reporting we’re close to a deal with the Cats that will essentially send McCants and Collins to Charlotte for Raymond Felton.”
That sounds like a good deal to me. Collins is worthless and McCants is overrated. Get Felton in here, platoon him with Telfair at point and move Foye to the 2. The sad thing is, we will still need a couple more puzzle pieces.
Also, what’s wrong with playing Miller at power forward every once in a while? He can’t guard a shooting guard or an athletic small forward. I’m no expert though, so what do I know?
Ok ok, I was just looking around about this Bobcats-Wolves deal…you know what hasn’t been mentioned here yet (as far as I’ve read) ? It would be Collins-McCants AND A PICK.
VETO VETO !
Collins-McCants for Felton doesn’t even come remotely close to working from a cap perspective, so the Bobcats would have to be sending more back.
Hoopshype Rumors has a story saying that the Hoopsworld trade rumor has disappeared.
I should have said that Hoopshype has a story from Hoopsworld saying that the Hoopsworld sources for the trade rumors have disappeared and that they are doubting their validity.
Here is a trade I was playing with on the ol ESPN trade machine…
Philly - McCants, Cardinal, Collins (possibly a pick)
Minny - Dalembert & Green.
I think I’d like Dalembert with the Al/Love/Smith bigs.
I don’t think Philly is going to be ready to blow things up just yet. I don’t know why they would give up two functionin pieces for our garbage. With Brand and Iguodala already making big money, they aren’t going to be able to open up significant cap room even if they do unload Dalembert.
There is zero chance of Dalembert playing for the Wolves. For one he is their starting Center and secondly he has a huge contract that McHale is not going to bring in.
They are not liking the Brand / Dalembert dynamic in Philly from what I’ve been reading.
I’d take him.
Ooooooooh Sam I Am Mitchell just got canned. If Witt gets canned they better take a look at him !
No Flip !
If Sam got fired it is truly the inmates running the asylum.
Same as here…
Glen Taylor needs to offer Popovich & Buford $50 million each.
Anyone comment on the way our esteemed owner sits courtside with his trophy bride and smiles.
Don Sterling at least lives in L.A.
As for my suspicions about McHale on the trip and whether that’s a coach or trade thing, I’d say coach. He can make a deal from home.
