Ollie in, Collins out for a showdown with Superman
Posted on December 3rd, 2008 – 5:25 PMBy Jerry Zgoda
Randy Wittman is playing a bit of musical chairs for tonight’s game against Dwight Howard and Orlando. When the music stops, 35-year-old vet Kevin Ollie will be your starting point guard and everybody else gets shuffled down a stop, which means center Jason Collins is the last man out.
Ollie starts at point — insert your own comment here about what that means for that position and the Wolves’ future (other than maybe Spanish teenage whiz Ricky Rubio) — and Randy Foye starts at shooting guard, Mike Miller moves to small forward, Ryan Gomes move to power forward and Al Jefferson slides over to center to take Howard.
That gets Ollie, who Wittman became enamored with in Monday’s loss at Charlotte, on the floor from the start, allows Gomes to cover Rashard Lewis, who isn’t a power forward really but plays one on TV, so Jefferson isn’t left out on the perimeter chasing Lewis.
It also could allow the Wolves a better look at Foye strictly at two guard if they intend to make a deal for a point guard. (See the Hoopsworld’ Raymond Felton report on the previous thread, although I don’t see Larry Brown and the Bobcats wanting anything to do with Rashad McCants).
Collins started the last eight games at center until tonight.
Kevin Ollie starting at point? Let the discussion begin!
Also, did ya see: The Raptors fired former Timberwolf Sam Mitchell today after an 8-9 start.
41 Responses to "Ollie in, Collins out for a showdown with Superman"
Hey, What’s not to like, right Swan???
8-9 isnt good enough but with ’stars’ like bargnani and calderon on the starting line up and the only real stud you have is bosch and the other ’stud’ in oneal has been injured? yah thats fair
He’s a way better coach than Wittman (he has me intrigued some nights but still is better as an assistant). I say we bring him on over.
I miss him a lot actually. I’ll never forget that Laker game in his last season when he scored like 20 and had that running/fadeaway floater thing (it was amazing, felt like the ’80’s)
I like Ollie in to start, but Telfair deserves more minutes. Also, Jefferson against Howard? let the scoring begin!
I’ve heard that it’s pointless to engage Pointless in convo, but I’m gonna give it a shot anyway…
I’ve got to agree with the Swan on the upside of this roster. KG ate dollars like cops eat donuts. One of the best moves the Wolves have made recently isn’t a roster move at all. It was signing Big Al on board long term at such a cheap price. We’ve got money to spend for years to come, more than just 2010. Yeah, we’re not gonna sign LeBron, but hopefully our team will look more appealing to free agents in 2+ years after we’ve used some of our many draft picks on good young talent…
Starting Ollie is the end of the end for Wittman. This is basically telling McHale to shove it. Wasn’t Ollie the last player to make the roster? That should tell you more than anything about what Wittman thinks about the PG options.
The Raptors actually are a fairly talented team. Calderon is one of the 3 or 4 best PG’s in the east while Bosh(It doesn’t have C in it) is a top 10 player. O’Neal isn’t as good as he use to be but he is still a good player.
What doesn’t make sense to me is that in the article today in the Strib Wittman said he wasn’t fair to Telfair by not playing him. Then when he goes with the small lineup he overlooks Telfair again? Last year before Telfair got hurt, some of our best games were when Bassy and Foye started together. The whole “showcasing” theory brought up yesterday isn’t sounding as stupid anymore…
Wittman’s clearly hasn’t figured out how to communicate with this team. If we were 16 games into the Wittman experience I’d say give the man time, but frankly the Tolerance Train has sailed.
I still think this team, as presently comprised, could/should be competing at near .500 level. But Wittman won’t be the guy to get that to happen. He needs to be fired ASAP. Especially since he was advertised as a “teacher” for this young team, and has completely failed to earn the trust of any of the young players. Ollie starting tonight bears that out.
In my Lowered Expectations T’Wolves Fantasy Realm, Flip would take over as GM, and Jerry Sichting would finally get a shot head coaching. Would that help this year? Probably not, but it seems like Wittman is driving these guys crazy. A fresh voice in the locker room, and a calm hand on the tiller couldn’t hurt these young cats development (Foye, Shaddy, and Love specially).
“I’ve got to agree with the Swan on the upside of this roster. KG ate dollars like cops eat donuts. One of the best moves the Wolves have made recently isn’t a roster move at all. It was signing Big Al on board long term at such a cheap price. We’ve got money to spend for years to come, more than just 2010. Yeah, we’re not gonna sign LeBron, but hopefully our team will look more appealing to free agents in 2+ years after we’ve used some of our many draft picks on good young talent…”
How original.
Yes we have picks, yes we have money. We also have a glaring weakness and fundemental flaw that renders everything you mention above useless. We still have McHale in the front office pulling the strings.
Ill share a sense of hope once McHale is gone. Until then its useless to talk about cap space and picks. A) He’ll over pay the wrong guy. B1) He’ll pick the wrong guy B2) he’ll pick the right guy but trade him.
Why get excited about money and picks if you know McHale will screw it up?????
“KG ate dollars like cops eat donuts.”
Man the Lakers should dump Kobe so they can free up some cap space. His deal is killing that team. Oh wait, that logic makes no sense.
“KG ate dollars like cops eat donuts.”
I’d advise any team considering going after Lebron and giving him a max deal to be very careful. If you do that you’re only guaranteeing that your team will be hamstrung in the future with a bloated contract. It’s really a bad idea to carry a max deal on your squad.
Pointless, I’m starting to understand you name. You’re looking at everything the wrong way and adding your own negative twist to it.
First, if you assume McHale will screw everything up, then of course draft picks and cap space mean nothing. My point, though, is that the potential to really build a strong franchise is there. And that’s exciting, and different for the Timberwolves.
Second, I’m not saying that franchise players like KG, Kobe, and LeBron aren’t worth the money, but there is a downside to paying a single player that much. The Timberwolves weren’t able to manage their limited cap space and build around Garnett the way the Lakers have around Kobe, so it was time to change. At least they didn’t make the same mistake twice by waiting for Big Al to become and All Star and then paying big bucks for him…
“First, if you assume McHale will screw everything up, then of course draft picks and cap space mean nothing.”
Assuming doesnt enter into it. Ive got history and facts on my side. McHale, if still in charge will do what he alwasys does. Screw it up. So yes, if he is still there, money and picks mean nothing.
“My point, though, is that the potential to really build a strong franchise is there.”
Sure, if you make one simple easy cahnge. Fire McHale so he cant screw it up.
“And that’s exciting, and different for the Timberwolves.”
If they fire McHale, then it will be exciting and different.
” but there is a downside to paying a single player that much”
Show me the downside to it in CLE or LA or BOS? The difference there is those teams have quality coaching and management. There is the difference in variables. The salaries are NOT the problem.
“The Timberwolves weren’t able to manage their limited cap space and build around Garnett the way the Lakers have around Kobe, so it was time to change.”
So are you saying it was the Wolves and not KG’s contract? The scenarios were similar only the teams had differnt outcomes. Why? Management.
“At least they didn’t make the same mistake twice by waiting for Big Al to become and All Star and then paying big bucks for him…”
That was a good move. The 1 in 20 scenario Swan mentioned yesterday.
Just a guess because Im not watching or listening to the game but Love has been stuffed a few times tonight by Howard? I see Howard has five blocks and Love has five Of. Rebs. and is shooting 1 for 5.
jama - i think you misunderstood me
yes ok calderon is good, but you aren’t helping your argument by saying is top 3 or 4 in the EAST (making him what, 10th of 30 in the NBA considering how many good PG’s there are in the West?)
sorry about bosh’s name; and i called him a stud cuz i already know he’s a top 10 player
and i know oneal is good; i meant ’stud’ cuz he is good but not great (should have been more clear). they are clearly missing him though
all i was saying is that (like you said) this team is ‘fairly talented’ and missing a key piece (oneal) and mitchell has kept them near .500 (which is what you’d expect from a ‘fairly talented’ team right?) i was defending mitchell cuz i love the guy and don’t think he deserves that ie Saunders with a near .500 record getting the can (thats another story)
Pointless, you’re trying to rip on me for my “original” comments, but you only say the same thing over and over again. Fire McHale. As if that hasn’t been echoed enough in these conversations.
I’m not endorsing McHale, I’d like to see him gone just as much as the next guy. I’m not talking about McHale, I’m talking about the Timberwolves. What if, and bear with me here, they get rid of McHale. Does not everything that I said make sense? Is it not exciting to have the sort of assets this team has for the future?
Plus, I’ll admit, I’m a lifelong Wolves fan and an optimist. To me the future of the team looks brighter than it has in a while. So again I ask Swan’s question, what’s not to like about this roster?
ps Haha, Calvin Booth just checked in, what a goon…
Pointless
There is actually a big difference between KG’s contract and LeBron’s next contract. KG signed his contract before there was a max contract in place. KG’s salary actually took up a larger portion of the salary cap than any player since he signed that deal.
Rebounding in Love’s case is so over rated, he gets a lot of offensive rebounds off his own misses or shots blocked back in his face. He has a horrible shooting percentage for PF. Mark Madsen got a lot of rebounds playing opposite of Shaq and Love will get a lot along side of Jefferson but its scary to already be comparing Madsen to Love, at least Madsen could play good defense though.
Why is Miller playing less than Foye, and why is McCants getting some of his minutes, that is BS. Miller needs 40 minutes a game in close games.
Yeah, we already have 11 guys playing, one more to go to get everyone in the game again.
Great, Miller’s down, well McCants will get his chance for 20 shots tonight now.
Stop leaving your feet to pass Foye!!!!!!!!!!!
ollie has been with 13 teams in 11 years, never averaged more than 5-6 points in a year. playing ollie or collins is a lot like throwing the game, playing shorthanded. mccants foye and telfair should comprise our backcourt.
We look very un-athletic against the Magic. Howard, Lewis, even coutney lee for the magic are quicker and better than anyone on our team at their position. They don’t even have their starting pg Jameer Nelson who has been playing great and they are still handing it to us.
Time to flip over to A Christmas Story on TNT. That might be the last T-wolves game I watch in a long time. At least Miller came back, limping a bit though.
This game is hard to watch without Brewer and Miller. The talent disparity is ridiculous. Howard is making Jefferson look bad. Nobody but Kevin Ollie knows how to take a charge and stop the dribble penetration for layups. When Orlando gets wide-open threes, they make 47.6% of them, but we shoot 2 for 9. This team lacks talent. And, McHale has no idea how to draft (and keep) the right guards to run the team. This team will win 18 games this year, then will get hosed over in the lottery again, and will draft the right player but will trade him to Portland for another slow, undersized PF. If there was the hope that we had someone with a plan in charge, it would be easier to watch these games.
[…] On the Wolves – […]
“I’m not talking about McHale, I’m talking about the Timberwolves.”
You cant have one without the other.
“What if, and bear with me here, they get rid of McHale. Does not everything that I said make sense? ”
Sure. But thats not reality.
“Is it not exciting to have the sort of assets this team has for the future?”
Sure, if McHale is gone.
“Plus, I’ll admit, I’m a lifelong Wolves fan and an optimist. To me the future of the team looks brighter than it has in a while.”
Before it was in a coma. Now its just drooling on itself but atleast its eyes are open.
” So again I ask Swan’s question, what’s not to like about this roster?”
No PG, No C, No D, No athleticism…..
You guys come up with all these rosy scenarios about the bright future the Wolves ahve with this really exciting roster. None of it matters until you solve your first and most glaring problem.
What if, what if, what if…..
Yeah but, yeah but, yeah but….
Tim pretty much said what I was thinking. This game was seriously just sad, and all of our weaknesses…no point guard play, no athleticism, no size, no defense…got exposed. We just got whipped by a team that played without both it’s starting guards.
I can only hope that Taylor fires McHale before McHale fires Wittman. But that’s probably wishful thinking.
Jerry, why doesn’t Carney play?
“KG’s salary actually took up a larger portion of the salary cap than any player since he signed that deal.”
Point taken. But then again who’s job is it to manage the payroll? Oh thats right the management of the team, McHale. So whos fault was that? KG, the kid who took the money, or McHale, the guy who wrote the deal and was responsible for managing the team?
Ill split the blame 80/20 to McHale. Expecting a 21,22 year old kid to turn down over $100 million and ask for less money is unrealistic and blaming him for it is sour grapes.
Bryan…have you finally seen the light and get it that McHale’s an idiot and needs to be fired. If I recall you use to be one of his biggest supporters…If you thought last year was bad. YOU HAVEN’T SEEN NOTHING YET IF MCHALE AND WITTMAN STAY….
? I’ve been calling for McHale to be fired all year, to the point I’ve actually defended Wittman (because I do honestly believe 90% of the problems he gets blamed for are really McHale’s fault). I gave McHale credit over the summer for the good things he did because he did do a good job of freeing up cap space and bringing in talent. But it’s clear he misjudged that talent and didn’t think through how it would fit together.
But ultimately, I’ve been wanting McHale fired since a year before Saunders was fired.
Just so we’re all clear here Pointless: Are you A) an actual Wolves fan? Or B) just trolling?
Just asking.
Now as for the KG contract, well it was what the Wolves had to do at the time. What always gets lost in these reveries is that the conventional wisdom was that we’d lock down KG & Steph (and don’t forget Googs) to big long term deals, and spend to next decade competing for titles. Obviously this didn’t happen. However the 97-98 sold most of us watching that it was a done deal.
We’ll never know, and that’s the s@$ty part. Ofc KG’s Contract that was the straw that broke the back of the old CBA (collective bargaining not the league). The lock out happened. The hard cap was put in place, and the wheels came off the Wolve’s plan.
Goog’s left for Phoenix cuz Steph “froze him out”. Then Steph just couldn’t swallow making 2/3 of what KG was making. And let us not forget the two other catastrophes of ‘99: 1. Taking Wally, with the pick we got for Steph, over Shawn Marion, Andre Miller, or Rip Hamilton. 2. Joe Smith.
Gawd what a snakebit franchise…
Wow you people are so blind to reality. You rip on pointless constantly yet he is acting like a real fan. The reason Mchale is still around is because Taylor knows there are stupid fans out there that will keep supporting the worst professional sports franchise management group ever.
How you guys think our roster has any talent is beyond me. Half our roster consists of undersized, unathletic PFs and the other half of our roster is slow, undersized guards who can’t shoot.
“A) an actual Wolves fan?”
C) Was a Wolves fan. I would be again.
Just so we are clear, does being a Wolves fan mean you have to accept this garbage of a team and cheer for it like a mindless rube? Or is that just for packers fans?
“Ofc KG’s Contract that was the straw that broke the back of the old CBA (collective bargaining not the league).”
Wrong. Some people think that. Ill go with the $100 million Juan Howard got and the ridiculous contract Bryant Reeves signed. Garnett got paid and an argument can be made he deserved it. Howard and Reeves had no business whatsoever getting what they did. You can afford to pay super stars. You cant afford to pay stiffs what those other two got paid.
I wouldnt blame Garnett’s deal on any cap problems until you confront the deals T Hudosn T Hassell and M Jaric got first.
“Gawd what a snakebit franchise…”
Snakebite is pulling a hamstring. This team is pure and prolonged incompetence on every level from the owner down to the bench.
The only bad thing that ever happened to the Wolves that wasnt their own doing was Malik Seeley getting killed. Everything else was a diliberate decision and after 20 years inexcusable. Only gullable rubes think there is hope with the same people in charge calling the shots. When did you stop believing in Santa?
Malik Sealy was a free agent when he died. There’s no guarantee he would have still been a Wolf if he had lived.
Pointless
I know McHale pulls the trigger on all contracts but KG basically held the team hostage to make sure his guys like THud and Hassell were resigned. Again that ultimately falls on McHale but KG had a part in that as well.
*I’m not trying to stick up for McHale at all but KG did have a big part in the downfall of this organization. Not his oncourt play but more on his off court “antics”.
“Again that ultimately falls on McHale but KG had a part in that as well.”
Sure, I get that. But if you let a player dictate to you what your job is you should be run out of town.
“KG basically held the team hostage to make sure his guys like THud and Hassell were resigned”
Held hostage? Id be interested to hear you articulate that in some meaningful way. What exactly did he do? You can blame him for J. Smith. But T Dud?
“Not his oncourt play but more on his off court “antics”.”
I remember him being a model citizen. I dont remember any antics or clubhouse problems. Maybe you are an insider and know more than the rest of us. Maybe you mean his desire to win and demand for quality players? KG is a player, not a front office type. He demands players to play with, its McHales job to produce them. He gave KG T Dud and Jaric. Hardly KGs fault.
KG made it well known that he wanted Hudson and Hassel resigned. The NBA is much different than the NFL and MLB. Star players normally have a say in what the team is planning. By off the court antics I meant his demanding that Wally be traded and demanding that Hudson and Hassel be resigned. I completely agree that the GM or whoever is making the decisions should stand up to these players at some point but KG had a huge say in personnel moves while with the Wolves.
“KG made it well known that he wanted Hudson and Hassel resigned.”
You call that holding a team hostage? The only thing he can do to hold a team hostage is fake an injury, dog it on the court, Come late leave early rip the squad to the press etc etc. He did none of that.
