Unlucky No. 13: Wolves lose 99-93 at San Antonio, Foye gets 26 and 16
Posted on December 24th, 2008 – 2:09 AMBy Jerry Zgoda
Is there a certain poetic justice, you think, to this?:
If the Wolves’ losing streak, which reached 13 tonight at San Antonio, continues just two games longer, they will have the chance to tie the club record for longest losing streak Monday against Memphis and you-know-who at Target Center.
O.J. Mayo, of course.
Mayo leads all NBA rookies in scoring. Kevin Love, for whom he was traded on draft night, made a free throw tonight and ended his scoreless streak at two games.
The Wolves trailed by 16 points late in the third quarter and got it to just three points with less than three minutes, but couldn’t get any closer. Afterward, Kevin McHale lamented the officiating. Among the calls he questioned: A ball he thought went off Manu Ginobili that was awarded to the Spurs and a foul that went from two free throws to an offensive foul when an official ruled Sebastian Telfair kicked out his leg on a drive to the hoop.
“We were dying to get one call go our way,” McHale said.
When Al Jefferson was asked about the officiating, he said, “All I’ll say is a lot of mistakes weremade, and not all of them were made by us. If I get in trouble for saying that…I know they’re not perfect. They makes mistakes like we make mistakes.”
Jefferson’s 28 points and Randy Foye’s 26 points and 16 rebounds while playing shooting guard most of the night couldn’t overcome Tony Parker’s 36 and Tim Duncan’s ho-hum 19 and 12 night.
Foye’s 16 rebounds were by far a career high and the most ever by a Wolves guard. He surpassed:
15 Isaiah Rider Mar 3, 1996 vs Miami
14 Wally Szczerbiak Nov 17, 2001 vs Orlando
14 Tony Campbell Feb 2, 1990 vs Boston
13 Micheal Williams Dec 19, 1992 at Golden State
13 Gerald Glass Dec 3, 1991 vs Phoenix
13 Tony Campbell Nov 30, 1990 at Utah
“I think I had 15 in college before, but not the NBA,” Foye said. “I want to apologize to Al Jefferson and Craig Smith for stealing all their rebounds.”
Even though McHale is desperate for practice time after the Wolves played eight games in his first 15 days as coach, he has given his players Christmas Eve and Christmas Day off before the team flies to New York City Thursday night for Friday’s game against the Knicks.
Foye and Love, to name two players, flew home with the team after tonight’s game and then basically will straight back to the airport for early flights East. Love is going early to visit friends in New York, Foye is headed home to Newark.
47 Responses to "Unlucky No. 13: Wolves lose 99-93 at San Antonio, Foye gets 26 and 16"
Ok, the refs weren’t stellar, but what can you do? In the end, we made more free throws than San Antonio attempted, so it’s not like it was THAT bad.
More to the point, once again our lack of defensive ability (or even potential) killed us. Parker scored 36 on 13-17 shooting and nearly fouled out all out point guards (Bassy fouled out, Ollie had 5, Foye had 4).
And in the end, I think we’re seeing what I predicted, which is that whatever else McHale does for the team, he won’t get them more wins. The gap between our talent level and the rest of the league and our roster balance and the rest of the league is too great for sheer effort to overcome. We try harder now, but that just means we lose enthusiastically.
I was encouraged to see Foye moved to the 2 though. I think not needing to focus on playmaking clears his head and lets him be effective at what he’s best at: scoring. That said, he still only tallied a single assist, making his current count just 9 in the last 150 minutes of playing time. I’m beginning to wonder if his low assist totals are as much a mental thing as a skill thing. He does lack court vision and creativity, but he also doesn’t seem to even be looking to pass. Unless he’s explicitly told otherwise, his only mindset is “shoot ball”. It’s kind of like the problem we have with Al, except in guard form.
Also, I wonder if this means McHale is abandoning the “Foye for point guard” campaign. He seemed adamant that it was sink or swim for Randy…was this just a reaction to Miller’s absence or has McHale decided Foye is sunk already? Well, you should all know my opinion on that one.
Hey, anyone else in favor of cutting freakin Calvin Booth and bringing back Chris Richard? I miss that guy, and he’s been doing great in the DLeague (13-8, which just means some other team has that much more incentive to call him up before us). Given the state of our team right now, I can’t think of a better available player to start at the PF spot next to Al. Chris is a great defender and rebounder and it looks like his offensive game is coming along well. Craig I think is best off the bench. He leaves us vulnerable defensively as a starter and not having him in a sixth man role really depletes our scoring off the bench, especially with Shad misfiring so often. I understand the team’s desire to use Booth’s contract as trade bait, but I just don’t think there’s a market for him (bad player; contract not worth much anyway), and every day we don’t resign Chris is one more day another team could beat us to it.
And for the record, I’m still very much in favor of my trade idea to bring in Mike Conley, Hakim Warrick and Darko Milicic.
Also, one of the users on a forum I frequented asked “If the Wolves have the #2 pick in the draft, who do they take?” (assuming Oklahoma is first overall and takes hometown hero Blake Griffin).
I answered Thabeet, because we literally have no one to put out there at center, but that’s a tough tough call. Every “average” team that is trying to break into the upper ranks is being led by a rising star at the point guard spot. The Nets and Devin Harris, the Bulls and Derrick Rose, the Pacers and TJ Ford. So could we afford to pass on Rubio?
I guess that’s why I lobby so much for Mike Conley. Just so you’re all aware.
[…] On the Wolves – […]
You take the best talent regardless of position in the draft. We are so far from being a team looking for a particular need it’s crazy to even consider anything else.
Booth’s a contract. Glen won’t spend the money. Richard doesn’t matter. Nice kid. Can’t contribute in any meaningful way.
He’s best with a full year being “the man” in “D” ball. He’s needs to get something resembling an offensive go to move before he comes back to the NBA.
Too small, too limited athletically, too many parts that make no sense..that’s da Wolves.
Bryan
You want to pick up a guy that is averaging 13 and 8 in the D-league? And then you want to start him? That is ridiculous, there’s a reason Richards didn’t make the team in the first place, he can’t score in the NBA and he is an undersized defender.
Your question about who to take at #2 might be a moot point as many are projecting that Rubio might stay in Europe one more year. If that happens I think the decision will be between Thabeet and James Harden with Brandon Jennings being a long shot.
Merry Christmas everyone! Foye played a great game last night. We need to keep starting him at sg while Miller is out.
Brian, You are absolutely right about the importance of having a good young point guard on a rebuilding team. However, I don’t think Conley Is going to fit in that group with Devin Harris, Derick Rose, TJ Ford, Ricky Rubio, also DJ Augustin, and Russel Westbrook. Generally speaking, the only way to get a pg nowadays is through the draft. If you do it through trade or free agency, you usually have to overpay players, or give up too much through a trade. Teams are becoming desperate for point guards. They are in high demand. If Your Needs are center and pg, I’d say you have to go after the pg through the draft, and the center in free agency. We already have a dominant big man in Al Jefferson, so all we need to do is get an average center to play next to him. We don’t have any good YOUNG guards on our team. We need to solve our pg needs by drafting Rubio, then either sign, or use one of our other picks on a center. If we can get Conley without having to give up extra value for him I’d be all for it. But I’m guessing the grizzlies wont trade Conley unless they get a steal.
I’ll say it again. Take the best player in the draft that’s available. When you’re this bad, you need to acquire assets. That gives you the ability down the road to trade for what you need.
Stop thinking about a particular position. That’s crazy stupid. It’s boiler room stuff that gets said by people who have no idea what they’re taking about.
There are a multitude of ways to build a franchise. You do that through talent.
Kobe ain’t a point. Neither is Foy. You see a dominant point on Boston? Rondo’s a nice piece but that isn’t a point guard team. Cleveland….it goes on and on.
A talented hybrid is as important as anything. You need a go to. AJ ain’t that player. He needs another dominant to play off. Get talent for now and that gives you the chance to get out of the trap you’re in.
The other thing about the draft is that the one position it should be deep at is PG. So the Wolves could get an okay PG latter in the first round. With their first pick I expect them to either take the best available player or trade it for a high quality veteran.
Bryan,
If you think that anyone gives a ratass what you think, guess again. You sure have a high opinion of yourself and your bball knowledge. Unfortanately for you, nobody else does. Your takes are ridiculously long AND bad. Start your own blog so I don’t have to skim by your obnoxious takes anymore.
so funny that there is still 6/7 months until the next draft, but because of the sad state the wolves are in there is nothing better for wolves fans to talk about…
for now people will just have to play fantasy draft NBA Live and grab the players that you wish the wolves had…
I don’t see that many silver lining games on the horizon for the Wolves but the schedule does get a little easier brining in the new year…
here’s one more thing that seems to becoming more and more clear…at least to me and feel free to bust on me…
I don’t see Al as being a “dominant” big…he’s a great scorer, i’ll give him that. but does he make people around him better? is he a voice of calm on the floor? is he leading this team? is he clutch w/ the ball in his hands late in quarters or games?
Time to make some room on this team. Release or trade: Calvin Booth, Cardinal & Ollie, and use a #1 or #2 pick. If released, look for some good guards from the NBDL and maybe a center. This team needs a RED BULL energy boost in the worst way. Maybe trade for a Golden State player. Several of them want out, and someone like Jackson could help on offense immediately.
I think that this is the kind of change that the wolves need.
click on that, and check out our facelift
Worst to first guy: Are you nuts?!?! NO WAY would an respectable Wolves fan want ANYTHING to do with Marbury, aka Starbury. This would be a better trade and make more sense -
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=496~2777~3455~3242&teams=9~9~16~16&te=&cash=
hoops guy,
Worst’s deal makes more sense than your’s does. He dumps three contracts for two and they come off the books next season.
What the hell makes you think GSW would give up on their past two 1st rounds picks (who both still have futures and upside) for a malcontent like McCants and a complete stiff like Madsen who still has two years left?
What is the purported trade with Memphis for Mike Conley, Hakim Warrick and Darko Milicic?
Worst to First
I think Miller has more value than that. I like the idea of trading players for expiring contracts and I would be okay trading for Marbury’s expiring contract but I don’t see it happening.
Hoops-Guy
There is no way on God’s green earth that Golden State would make that trade. Why would GS trade their last 2 lottery picks for a really expensive cheerleader and a bench player who plays no defense and shoots less than 40%?
Stop huffing glue and quit ripping someone else’s trade proposal if you are going to throw that garbage at us.
Dump these guys for expiring contracts and keep the 4 draft picks we have.
What about a Calvin Booth for Marcus Williams trade? GS has talked about just buying Williams out since he is buried underneath Don Nelson’s dog house. It saves GS 100K and gives them a big to use in garbage time. It gives the Wolves an actual PG who has underachieved but at least has upside. If it doesn’t work out then both teams keep the guys on their bench like they are doing with their players now.
Pointless
The problem with that trade is the Cavs would have to cut 2 players off their current roster because Snow isn’t even on their roster and they would be adding 3 to replace Wally. I think it’s a decent idea but I don’t see the Cavs doing that.
When I hear the name Marcus Williams, the name William Avery echos through my mind.
On a side note how is Cleveland’s payroll $22 million more than the Wolves? I know there’s a luxury tax but isn’t there still a salary cap?
Pointless
Is there a downside to trade Booth for Williams though? Neither is playing on their current team and even if they are terrible after the trade they can just sit on the end of the bench.
How about now?
“Is there a downside to trade Booth for Williams though?”
I didnt say that. I only said Marcus Williams does nothing for me especially when we already have Ollie and Telfair. Is there a malcontent two guard out there we could trade Booth for? I dont see the value in another sh:tty PG.
I guess that could work but I don’t see the Wolves doing that. I think Miller still has some real value and the Wolves could get an expiring contract and a young player with upside for him. A team like Portland or Philadelphia should be teams looking at acquiring Miller. I think Portland has a ton of pieces that the Wolves should look in to.
I think Clev. would be really interested in Miller. Another piece like him and they could really contend for the title. As it is I think Bos. takes them down.
How about this trade with Miami:
Granted I don’t think Miami would do that trade but Reiley has stated how much he loves Miller.
The reason Richard didn’t make the roster was because it was free to cut him, while it would have cost us to cut Booth. The hope has been we’d be able to trade Booth’s expiring contract for a second rounder or something like that, but no team wants him and his contract isn’t worth enough to make a meaningful savings when it expires. I can guarantee you guys that if Booth had been free to cut in training camp, we would have kept Richard.
And yes, I probably do overestimate Conley’s abilities, although I do think he’s a lot better than most people give him credit for. And even if he never becomes an all star (and I agree it would be really pushing it to see him get to the level of say, Devin Harris), but even if he never gets that high, he’s still a vast improvement over anyone we have now and since he’s on his rookie deal, he’d cost us very very little to bring in.
And hey, if you don’t think I know anything, then whatever. I don’t have to prove my basketball knowledge to anyone, I’m here to talk Timberwolves and give my opinion the way I see it. I’ve been right about Foye not being a point guard and McHale coaching not improving the team at all, which are the two primary things that have us in such a bad situation. (And if I recall correctly, I was the ONLY person here who didn’t think firing Wittman would do anything). So you can all take that for what you want.
Also, I could post a huge argument about how building a team has to be much more thought out than just collecting the best scorers/rebounders/whatever that we can find. I mean, isn’t the lack of consideration for balance and leadership and defense and chemistry the reason we’re as bad as we are? I’ve said it before, we’re an extremely talented team, the pieces just don’t fit together well.
BUT if we’re just interested in guys who will put up numbers, then maybe we should call up Courtney Sims.
And quite frankly, I’m surprised that none of you want Conley but then go and suggest we bring in Marcus Williams. The guy is a washout with no work ethic. At least Conley would play hard for us.
I love looking at all the trade ideas, it gives a person a little bit of hope. Although, like someone pointed out the Wolves will probably have to wait for new management/coaching staff, and probably should before making any signifigant moves. Of course that will probably never happen, and the fans will be stuck with the same clowns making the same kind of dumb#ss moves until Taylor sells the team.
Bryan
I think you are taking what one person and categorizing the rest of us. I think trading for Conley would be fine, it just depends on what the Wolves would give up for him. I threw Marcus Williams out there because he really wouldn’t cost the Wolves anything in return whereas Conley actually has value.
I don’t think people really thought the Wolves would improve much with McHale as the coach but saw it as a way to get rid of him. Had the Wolves not fired Wittman how many more wins would they have, one or two? I agree and said so at the time that firing Wittman wouldn’t change much. Like I said before, I think firing him and replacing him with McHale was the only way that people thought McHale MIGHT get fired. So far so good on that theory.
I do disagree with you about bringing in Chris Richard though. There are 15 Chris Richards out there. Undersized PF’s who are strong but can’t score are a dime a dozen. If the Wolves wanted to bring him in to end the season fine but a guy like that is not going to have any impact on this team winning.
No Bryan,
the reason you’re as bad as you are is you’re generally too small, too slow, too unathletic, too myopic or generally poor shooters.
You have no complete players on your team.
Not one.
Terrible defensively.
You will not get out of this hole easily. It’s going to take a few years and you need to draft well.
You need to stop the “point guard” crap and look at talent. If the “1″ is the best available and he’s there, take him, but don’t be so damn myopic or stupid about it and hone in on a position. You guys have been talking point guard for what? 10 years?
You want a clue?
Dwayne Casey had it right.
Kevin McHale has it wrong.
Get athletes first, get the best player available and build a team around guys that can run, jump, shoot, leap, finish, and defend. Players that can play fill a roster and create miss matches all on their own regardless of their position.
You do realize that the Spurs completely coasted last night, right?
You’re so far from even being a consideration for most teams, it’s laughable.
I hate to brake it to ya (Minni’s my home state but I’ve moved on to warmer climes) but you’re a “fly over” to players. Guys don’t want to play in Minni.
You won’t get quality free agents to come there. You’ll get used though. Guys will play you to get what they want from a team somewhere else.
You have to draft and build your talent base. You’re bottom 5 NBA easily.
Oh and Bryan,
Changing a coach is like changing a tie.
If you’ve crapped your pants, the stench doesn’t go away.
Foye is a scorer. That’s been plain back to his NCAA days, his play at ‘nova and even in his East Side days.
Loved the trade talk…fun to read.
The Detroit News is projecting Flip Saunders coming to the Wolves as Coach and GM. That is a rumour that is too good to be true. I would pay good money to be in the Owners office when he calls in Kevin for a meeting. Mchale opens the door and see’s his former friend and teammate sitting behind the desk and only hears these words echo through the office; “YOU’RE FIRED!”
Merry Christmas!
jcheste, you just said what I’ve been telling everyone here for weeks. When I say lack of balance, I mean roster balance as in all skill players, no athletes, all wing players, no bookends (point guards or centers), all defense no offense, etc. So we’re on the same page.
Also an interesting thing I thought of is both Foye and Craig Smith played their college tourney games here when the Barn hosted part of March Madness that year. I wonder if that influence McHale…it would have been free scouting for him. Maybe he was trying to cash in on some “local” popularity?
Bryan’s an idiot. You and McHale deserve each other.
Why didn’t we get Rondo in the KG trade?
zbast,
Not sure but that’s an interesting point.
McHale blew it on the never was Marcus Banks. Maybe McHale was gun shy of a quick, raw, point guard based on that….or Boston just didn’t make R2 available because they saw upside.
Anyone know?
Bryan, I’m lost on some of what you’re sayin’. But I’m no hater. It’s all brain food and discussion. All good.
Merry Christmas to the room.
I would’ve never, ever guessed that Rider ever had more than 5 rebounds in a game let alone 15!!
Merry Christmas Everyone…Lets go wolves!! get off the streak already and win a game!!
I disagree though that point guard isn’t something to emphasize. I can’t imagine anyone thinks we’re set at that position. A great point guard can make an otherwise mediocre-to-bad roster look good. I don’t know where we’d find a point guard of that caliber, but if the opportunity comes up to acquire one, I don’t think we can pass it up.
And if you want to tell me I don’t know anything, at least explain why. Anyone can call someone else names like a 4 year old. Show some basketball IQ of your own guys and come up with solutions you think would work. The way I see the team is it doesn’t have any athletes, doesn’t have any potential to defend well, and lacks any leadership from the point guard position. Basically the same things that Jerry has mentioned and that guys like Marc Stein and Steve Aschburner and JA Adende have noted. So if you think those things aren’t the problem, then tell us what IS the problem.
The Wolves actually did try to get Rondo in the KG trade. That was one of the sticking points that held the deal up for a little while. Ultimately McHale backed down like he always does and let the Celtics keep him. Instead they took Banks who was here just long enough to increase his value and get overpaid by the Suns. At least McHale didn’t expand the horrible deal by overpaying Banks too!
Merry Christmas to all
“the Barn hosted part of March Madness”
I think you ment the Dome.
Random responses:
Banks was in the Wally deal, not the KG deal. Didn’t we end up taking Telfair instead of Rondo on the KG deal?
I like Mike Conley. It’s just a matter of what you give up for him.
Please, no Flip!
Ah, my bad. Good call Pointless.
And yes, Banks was part of the deal that got us Ricky Davis. We did try to get Rondo instead of Telfair, but the Celtics obviously knew what he was going to become. Too bad, but eh, what else can be expected from McHale?
