Upon further review…: ESPN.com report says Penn is out
Posted on May 18th, 2009 – 1:04 PMBy Jerry Zgoda
Ric Bucher just quoted Penn’s agent, Warren Legarie, in an ESPN.com piece as saying Tom Penn has pulled out his name out of consideration from Wolves job after receiving a promotion from the Blazers. Still trying to reach Legarie. Stay tuned.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4175419
Sounds like the Wolves just got played by Penn for a new contract, more money and a new title from kajillionaire owner Paul Allen and the Blazers.
157 Responses to "Upon further review…: ESPN.com report says Penn is out"
Wow… Um, Jerry are you interested in GMing the Wolves? They have to be getting desperate.
After this, Bill Simmons just might put his name back in the running.
Maybe this guy Penn is a shrewder negotiator than he has been given credit for - or Mr. Taylor has forgotten selling 101 - close the deal!
This may be a way to get the restrictions lifted (McHale/Hoiberg) or, if its the “final answer” this amounts to gross malfeasance (GT). No offer should be made until the “yes” is within reach.
If this is a bungled deal, it - in and of itself - is proof of the need for someone (professional) to run this operation.
I might note I have been a consistant appreciator of Taylor’s business success and civic contributions. No longer. Time for torches and pitchforks!
What the….?! (M-JOG)
Jerry,
Perhaps this has already been asked, but I was wondering if you are getting a sense of why people keep pulling their names out? Is it because they want total control and Taylor is pushing Hoiberg/McHale? Or is the Wolves job that awful? I mean, I’m only a light Wolves fan but I find this pretty embarassing, not to mention odd.
Wait, we have an NBA team in Minnesota?
The Wolves have to be one of the worst if not the worst franchise in the NBA. Terrible owner that does not know what he’s doing, no sense of what direction this team wants to go, a coach that doesnt know if he really wants to coach or not, and a dwindling fan base……. What a mess
I’m sensing a mass conspiracy by Stern to get his buddy Kahn back into the league…
Well, this is going to end one of two ways it seems. Either Taylor caves in and lets a guy like Lindsay of Pfund have full run of the team, or we end up promoting Stack and we go back to the way things were last year.
Formerly NBA, now being run at the level of a poor man’s AAU youth squad. What a joke.
I just don’t understand how Taylor can’t see that if he doesn’t get rid of McHale and the rest i.e. Hoiberg/Stack that no one is going to want to come here with restrictions placed on them. Worst of all Taylor talked a good game about change but doesn’t really want it, I mean doesn’t he understand what a laughing stock the Timberpuppies have become? And worst yet is that the team finally has some pieces in place, Big Al, K-Love, salary cap space, and draft picks. I just don’t get Taylor’s approach.
My sense in this case is why leave a well-run organization offering a promotion and more money for one that isn’t going to be that even if you are “running” the show. It sure seems like candidates feel the franchise is dysfunctional with Glen Taylor and Rob Moor at the top.
Unreal. Someone made a comment about coaches w/MN connections in the last thread. But is it legitimately an uphill battle to get execs from the coasts or better climates to relocate here?
How is it Glen Taylor’s fault that his potential hire opted to remain loyal to the Blazers franchise instead of coming here? Not to mention Paul Allen surely presented an offer few could top–a promotion to remain in the franchise that Penn has grown fond of.
People need to quit freaking out at Glen Taylor when candidates withdraw. The ONLY person people should be remotely upset about withdrawing was Lindsay, and that’s only on the assumption that he is on the same level as Presti/Pritchard. If you’re such haters of the team, then why comment/pay an attention to them anyway?
People need to understand that NBA franchises go through a lifecycle similar to that of retail merchandise (particular fashions)…there are moments when the product is flying off the shelf, looking like its destined to do nothing but succeed. But then, like most good things, reality sets in and a re-evaluation stage takes place. We are about to enter the third year of our re-evaluation and, after having roughly 8 years of playoff caliber teams around, I can do nothing but anticipate a return to the days of playoff success.
Glen Taylor SAVED basketball in this state, and I would much rather have a lottery bound team than none whatsoever.
No credible candidate is going to take this job if Glen Taylor isn’t going to let them make the decisions that come along with the title.
Latrell Sprewell needs a job.
UofM I agree with most of your points, I guess my bigger point is that Taylor trusted McHale and or Hoiberg and it hasn’t worked, I am not blaming Taylor for tyring those guys, but at some point you need to reckonize that change can be good and not be afraid of such change. Its just hard to change your perception of your franchise if the same people that got you lottery bound are around making important decisions.
Jerry, unless I read Bucher’s article wrong, it sounds like the Blazers are promoting Penn into their top position. So he might be running the show there now with Pritchard being his right hand man. Same gig he would have had here, except working for Paul Allen.
If he really is being promoted to VPO, then there’s no question staying in Portland is the right thing to do for him.
Matt, my sense is that it is unless you provide some type of incentive for them to do so (as with any other job): more money, more control, etc, etc. Glenn Taylor seems to think the position’s title is enough of an appeal, which it obviously is to guys like Stack and Hoiberg who are drastically underqualified.
I am so ashamed to be a Wolves fan right now.
If you want your girlfriend to agree to marry you, you take her to a fancy restaurant, tell her she is the only one for you, show her a shockingly nice ring, and say you’ll build a life together.
You don’t take her Hardee’s, give her a mood ring, ask her to go dutch on the meal, and tell her she can be your laundry slave.
The Knicks wanted regime change. They woo’d Walsh, he woo’d D’Antoni. Now they will become relevant again.
I know they have more resources than the Wolves, so we have to go after the 2nd level of talent. But why are we nickel and diming our way to the 5th level?
UofM — What sort of promotion did Penn really get with the Blazers? Pritchard didn’t leave. So Penn still doesn’t have the final say on personnel. He may have a snazzier title and more money, but his job isn’t going to be dramatically different.
The fact that Penn chose that over coming here says much. Guys aren’t going to come here and get the title without being given the responsibility that goes along with it. Taylor’s loyalty to McHale and Hoiberg is amazing. Perhaps we should hire some sort of psychologist to explain it.
Bill Simmons is still available.
Has it dawned on Taylor that the new GM doesn’t want to be tied to the Legacy of Failure he’s built with this organization. Why should the new GM be forced to keep Hoiberg? Name one thing that makes Hoiberg qualified other than he’s kissed Taylor’s a$$?? McHale as the coach?? Please. If he’s not going to clean house why bother acting like you are going to make changes at all? Just give McHale he keys back and continue to be the joke of an organization you are.
If you guys read the article, it says Penn is likely being promoted to Vice President of Basketball Operations. So instead of being in charge with Hoiberg handling the roster, he’s now in charge, for likely a lot more money, with Pritchard handling the roster. Same job, except for a better owner and with a better right hand man.
Pann isn’t a personel guy anyway. He’s x’s and o’s, salary cap, business models…that kind of stuff. And really, if you had Kevin Pritchard to handle your roster, why would you interfere with that?
Bryan — More likely is that Pritchard is being promoted to VP and Penn is being promoted to GM. Certainly, if Pritchard were out as part of this move it would have been mentioned.
I think those titles, Bryan, are all semantics. Even if Pritchard’s title stays GM and Penn becomes VPBO, Pritchard will still be the boss. He’s the guy Paul Allen trusts and the guy who has built that thing and Penn isn’t going to leapfrog over him. Penn’s getting a new contract, more money and a new title. Isn’t that the way promotions work?
UofM Student, you seem overly interested in singing Taylor’s praises in every situation. That seems more than a little odd given the general circumstances.
I give the man credit for keeping the franchise in MN. However, this GM search does not speak highly of the organization. Taylor spoke of how the organization spent time creating a list of the top candidates for the position, and was prepared to move quickly. Taylor paid lip-service to allowing a new GM to make decisions about McHale and other current staff.
Since then, we’ve had 3 “candidates” withdraw, and the organization backed off from Kahn (which is a good move in my opinion). We’ve heard repeatedly from Jerry and others covering the search that Taylor has backed off from his statement about the GM having complete say about McHale.
Penn… one can always question whether he engaged the Wolves with an eye for a negotiation wedge with the Blazers. That is possible. However, if an assistant GM wanted to make a name for himself, the Wolves job definitely looks to have the possibility of being a career maker. Something seems to be turning candidates off from the position, rather than the organization pulling away from candidates. I get the feeling that Penn would rather stay with the Blazers after finding out just how little real power and influence he’d have with the Wolves. He takes an improved offer with the Blazers, saves face, and he can wait for a better opportunity.
Rose tinted glasses are not really warranted right now.
Jerry,
Where does leave the Wolves now? Are we looking at a scenairo where McHale is still coach and Hoiberg is deFacto GM and we are back at square one. Or does this open Taylor’s eyes at all and he does a clean house and start all over?
UofM, I don’t agree with you. This points squarely at Glen Taylor. If Glen Taylor wants to win and to be taken seriously, either he or someone he hires to do so identifies the targets he wants in place and commits to doing what is necessary to hire that person. According to Jerry and the PP, Taylor is overseeing this search process and it has been bungled from the beginning. I am a Minnesota sports fan, not an NBA fan. A consistent lottery picking team that goes nowhere = either a team of overpaid and/or overvalued talent, or an inept coaching/front office staff unable to develop/maximize the talent, or both. Certainly you can choose to pay to go see that, which is what we currently have, but I won’t. And it all starts with Taylor.
Why would any new GM want to keep around the guys that completely destroyed this franchise. Does taylor know what he is doing?
I guess at this point the Wolves may as well promote Hoiberg, sign McHale to his four-year deal and bring this sorry chapter to a close. There’s no sense in having our chains jerked around any more by Taylor, Moor and this group of clowns.
Start from scratch - identify the top college coaches (Izzo, Donovan?) and offer complete control, Coach/GM. Would we rather have bottom of the barrell NBA guys, or creme-de-la-creme college guys? And we don’t even know if any of those guys would even sniff the job.
I think the lesson from this is to get a job where Glen Taylor is your boss, you are sure not only not get fired but probably promoted time after time.
As for where they go now…If this isn’t a negotiating ploy and Penn really is out, looks like there’s three ways:
1. Go back to David Kahn.
2. Promote Fred or Jim Stack to the job.
3. Start all over with a new candidate or list of new candidates. I get the impression that’s what they did with Penn about 10 days ago.
Really a combination of factors involved here. (1) The Blazers are much closer to a championship right now than the Wolves, although they do have personnel decisions to make too. (2) The Wolves are clearly in transition as a franchise while still interested in hanging on to Fred and McHale. This means the new GM will be fully accountable for a turnaround but have incomplete authority to make the change happen.
The Blazers have their GM and coach in place for the future.
Conclusion: better make Fred the GM and let him build a management team around him. He has a good persona that will attract others who join him.
This is really bizarre, and it’s frustrating that Penn passed. I am not comfortable with Fred running the show, because you would prefer to have someone who has been involved in doing deals and had networked around the league for years. Fred doesn’t have that experience, and experience almost always matters.
But I don’t think the team is in such a sorry state that we should have to beg someone to come here or write a blank check like the Knicks did with Walsh (not that I would mind having him). This franchise has already taken its lumps. The WCF run came from the all-or-nothing play to bring on Sam and Spre. The next few years with KG and spare parts were depressing. They have already run off the bad contracts, put together a cornerstone (Al) and some good developing young players. Another high draft pick this year and the potential to make moves for a vet or two.
The franchise is in a position where success is not that far off. The train wreck is nearly over. They don’t need a magician, just a pro.
This is getting out of hand. Jerry, is there any chance they could look to Rex Chapman or was his parting with the Wolves last time a bridge burner?
Any big-name guy — college or pro — is going to want the kind of salary I don’t think Taylor is willing to pay. I’m betting money is as big a factor in this than the McHale thing, or more.
If what I’ve read about Pritchard is true, he has no interest in the VPO job. He wants to deal with the players, not basketball operations. There’s a lot of business and PR stuff a VPO does that he doesn’t seem to like.
VPO and GM usually don’t work like it did here with McHale calling all the shots and Stack just doing the paperwork for it. Usually the positions are rather mutually exclusive, with the GM running the basketball side of the team and the VPO handling the internal business affairs.
We’ll get a pretty good look at how it should be done in a couple of weeks, when Donnie Walsh hires Chris Mullin. How sad will that be, if the Knicks’ business model is better than ours?
Here is from Chad Ford a few weeks back:
“Justin (Minneapolis): Chad, what is going with with the T-Wolves front office situation? Does anyone really want this job with Glen Taylor looking over their shoulder?
Chad Ford: Actually I think most people feel like Glen Taylor is a good owner. GMs want owners who are loyal and no GM has been loyal to such a lousy GM longer than Taylor. What I don’t understand is what Taylor is doing with this search? David Kahn? Really??? He might be worse than McHale. He’s been out of the league for years. Randy Pfund? Jim Stack? I don’t get it. Tom Penn of Portland is a nice young up and coming talent, but there are guys with Penn’s skills with much more experience like David Morway of the Pacers and Rich Cho of the Thunder. Too bad Dennis Lindsey of the Spurs backed out. He would’ve been a nice choice.”
Jerry, do you know anything about Morway or Cho?
One more point. This GM placement comes at a critical juncture for the franchise. While fans and writers are increasing inpatient to get this matter finalized, the reality is that this process may take weeks yet and may involve names from franchises currently in the hunt for a championship.
Taylor can offload more GM responsibilities to Fred and get a preview of Fred wearing a bigger hat.
Jerry - You make it seem like there may still be the outside chance that the wolves could say, “here is more money and you can fire McHale”. Is this because you have not confirmed that the wolves are totally out of this?
Cho would be an OK hire. I’m a little concerned as to why the Sonics decided to hire a 30 year old to be his boss after he worked for them for a decade though…
Same question as Chad, Jerry. What are the chances Taylor backs off all these stipulations?
Well, there you go - if Taylor is sticker price-conscious, then he isn’t serious. Imagine what it will be like when these guys realize they are going to have to overpay free agent players to come play here? We’ve got salary-cap room, but so does just about everybody else, which means we will be competing against teams in much more appealing markets. Thus, I think a pro, a pro evaluator of talent should be the number one criteria and if we aren’t willing to overpay (whatever that is)for a top-candidate to oversee the draft, then we will be a complete cluster with free-agents.
Kind of a random rant I know, but…
Jerry, could Lance Blanks possibly still be in the mix?
Taylor can’t back off now, can he? He’s already chased away his best three candidates with those stipulations. Hoiberg’s going to win by default.
Jerry, I understand your point on salary but I don’t think Glen is going to low ball on this search. He knows very well how crucial this placement is to him and the franchise’s future.
While Paul Allen has a bigger wallet, part of Penn’s decision was personal and family related.
Penn was an attractive guy but he had his own limitations and areas of inexperience.
Penn’s forte being salary cap management would have been advantageous to the Wolves short term, but someone like Fred has business savvy and is a pretty good judge of talent.
I think Glen needs to provide an update to his search, even if it means announcing an interim GM and a more extended search time line.
Bryan - It isn’t sad at all that the Knicks are better than us. They got rid of Isiah (100 times worse than McHale) before McHale.
As long as the names “Isiah” or “Dunleavy” don’t surface who gives a rip who the GM is.
I don’t see any indication Hoiberg has the business savvy for a VPO position. If anything, the fact he isn’t under consideration for the top job would indicate he DOESN’T have the business acumen for it. And judge of talent…that remains to be seen.
Marty — How do we know Hoiberg has “business savvy”? It seems to me that Penn — having done both cap managment and talent evaluation — is the more rounded candidate.
Thomas is out anyway. He just signed to coach in the college ranks.
At this point will they offer the job to Simmons, but McHale gets to write the book about it w/ Hoiberg as editor?
I hope Jerry is working the phone lines and getting some good news.
BILL SIMMONS!
Hire Hoiberg and end this thing. I been saying this for a month now so just do IT Taylor!!!!!!!!
Oh yah and F the Blazers!!!!
Big Mac…..must be Kevin McHale. Of course you want Fred in the big chair. You can push him around and get your 4 year $20 million coaching contract.
Offer the job to SImmons….
Is it a publicity stunt? Absolutely, but…
Would people start to care or notice the T-Wolves? Absolutely
Is he qualified? No, but…
Does Simmons know a sh!t ton about NBA basketball? Absolutely.
Can he do worse than McFail? Absolutely not.
I mean c’mon do something interesting. Bring some press to Minnesota, think outside the box, do things exactly opposite of what we’re used to. The main thing to keep in mind is that WE CAN’T DO WORSE! Even if it’s a complete disaster and we are laughed at by the rest of the league, who cares WE’RE ALREADY A JOKE TO THE REST OF THE NBA! Fred Hoiberg is a great guy and maybe a competent candidate, but he’s just going to follow the same losing template that Taylor and McFail have put into place. And he surely isn’t going to bring any interest or optimism and Freddy isn’t going to fill any seats.
Hire back Kevin and bring in Sam as the coach. Marty McFly…you have no clue about anything.
Just when this story couldn’t get any weirder, or any worse… the next “best” candidate bails out on the Wolves. Good for Penn, but maybe this will help Glen Failure realize he has to pay to get someone, and he has to allow them the power that they need to do their job? I have friends that work for him, and he and his personnel are usually not micro managers, and his businesses are successful. Why the hell is he micromanaging the Wolves when he has shown no ability to do it?
Hello, McFly? (sorry, I just always wanted to say that): So where do they go now?
No thanks, McHale sucks and Taylor is Al Davis.
C’mon Bill, just make Taylor read your past articles on why McHale is so terrible and convince him to fire McHale…
Where do they go now?
- Sam Hinkie
- David Morway
- Lance Banks
- Rich Cho
- Chris Grant
I really believe that Taylor will either back of his stipulations and let a guy like Pfund run the team however he wants to, or Taylor is going to stick to his guns, which likely means retaining Jim Stack. The closer we get to draft day, the more likely retaining Stack is, since I doubt even we’re disfunctional enough to not have a top guy by draft day.
If I owned the Wolves, I’d go back to Lindsey and give him whatever he wants. It makes the most basketball sense and the most business sense. The fans would get excited and we move on from there.
To me withdrawing your names is the equivalent of walking out of a car dealership when they don’t meet your price. It’s a classic negotiating ploy.
Jerry - Anything from the Wolves? Or the agent? Any chance the wolves don’t come back and give Penn what he wants?
If we stick with an in-house candidate we’ll end up picking a loser in the draft like usual. Or make a great pick then trade ‘em away for a loser…
If you don’t start finding this funny it will consume you.
Holy God, Taylor. What a way to run a railroad.
What a letdown. At this point I’d take Bill Simmons if for nothing else than to get a fresh perspective. I think there is danger in keeping the GM in house. What, if any, other candidates are left?
Lots of decisions need to be made in the next month with 3 draft picks and a weak draft. I hope the Wolves can get something done soon. And isn’t Pekovic supposed to be more available this year? I really hope we get a top 2 spot this year in the draft.
Well played Blazers, well played.
Well, by the sound of it, this isn’t about Penn not getting what he wanted. He was ready to sign on until this morning.
Unlike Lindsay of Pfund, Penn sounded perfectly ok with Taylor’s way of doing business. He just happened to like Paul Allen’s way (and the big fat promotion that came with it) a lot more.
Chad we all know you are an idiot. So shutup already idiot.
This is really depressing! It has gotten to the point here where I am actually considering Bill Simmons, especially after listening to him on KFAN. Ugh!
Jerry, any Chris Mullin scuttlebutt over at “The Country Club? I know he isn’t the top end, but it doesn’t look like we will get that anyways. Mullin at least had a few bright moments with sad Golden State.
Sean–
It’s being reported that Penn may very well have been given a comparable position to that of Vice President of Operations
SK77–
I understand the argument of “They’re the ones that got us in this position”…however you have to look at a few of the contributors to our current situation. First off there was the Joe Smith fiasco, while this was certainly the fault of managment, this crippled our ability to develop talent year in and year out (this is, I believe, the only fault of management/front office in regards to our situation). Secondly, there was a string of bad contracts that were given out to well below average players (Hudson, Hassel, Madsen, etc.). Sure it was management that gave the final ok on this, but if they hadn’t kept these guys around THE franchise (kg) would have made it quite apparent how dissatisfied he was with their decisions to let them leave. Let’s also note that the Wolves were not alone in giving these bad contracts out…every franchise (yes even the all-holy Spurs who supposedly are the gurus of management give them out…i.e. Rasho Nesterovic, Malik Rose, etc.). Since KG was traded, management has turned those horrible contracts into young talent, expiring contracts, and draft picks–three assets to developing any franchise. The current management has turned what once looked dismal into something poised for a turnaround (as evident by the 10-4 January record when most players were healthy…disregarding Brewer).
Jake the Wall–
Two of the four confirmed outside candidates haven’t even been in basketball for the past few seasons. Another was deemed by fans to be all sacred solely because of his association with the San Antonio Spurs organization–while a respectable franchise no doubt, that does not automatically result in him becoming another Pritchard/Presti. Finally, Penn, the guy that looked sure to become the hire, decided to remain with the organization that had employed him the past couple seasons while also receiving a respectable promotion and certainly a pay increase as well. Put yourself in his shoes, if, given the choice, you could stay with a company you know in and out or journey to an outside business looking to re-develop its product, having essentially the same duties in both situations, would you take more familiar ground or the latter? 9 out of 10 will stay with more familiar grounds, with that 1 and 10 apparently being along the lines of Mr. Penn.
Yes I admit that I do defend Mr. Taylor and his doings quite adamantly, you must also know that I do have my personal critiques of the franchise. However, instead of insisting that my opinions are assuredly the right ones and that Mr. Taylor doesn’t know what he’s doing…I acknowledge that it is his team to do what he likes when he likes, and in the mean time I will sit back and support those decisions out of appreciation for his maintaining an NBA franchise in Minnesota.
Big Mac - What the hell is your problem? What was wrong with anything I asked? Also, this is the 1st time I have ever posted here, so you don’t know sh*t.
Penn’s agent has been on his phone all day and the Wolves — surprise, surprise — aren’t talking.
Hire Lance Blanks. DO it now.
I would be almost happy with anyone as long as they have no previous ties to this team. We need to clean house 100%. Let Hoiberg apply for a job and interview for a job with the new GM, but nothing given. Same with McHale.
As much as I personally hate him, let him interview for the position, and if he is the most logical choice you hired the wrong GM, and you know how short of a leash to put on your GM.
I like the idea of going back to Lindsey and seeing what would make it work.
Anyone know if the Simmons piece on KFAN is posted anywhere?
Chad you should have said it was your first day. That would explain your stupid comments.
Wow, with a name like Big Mac, you are really one to talk. What comment was so stupid?
TwinsareFrauds–
Sorry but I didnt see your post when i was responding to the others. I respect your decision to disagree with my opinion, and in doing so I hope you understand my disagreeing with your stance that “it all points to Taylor.” Now, while I respect the reporting of Mr. Zgoda and media outlets in regards to the search, one must also consider that these are the same people that just a few hours ago were saying Penn was going to be the guy. At one point they agreed with Taylor’s sentiment that he would allow for the GM to have final say over McHale’s fate, and now after candidates withdraw from consideration it must be a result of Taylor insisting that not be the case. What I’m getting at here is that although media insight can provide quite a bit for the fan base to discuss/analyze, the truth is that unless you are inside those interviews or on the phone with those candidates hearing the words for yourself, you don’t know what the truth is.
Disclaimer: Mr. Zgoda, should you happen to read over my response, please do not take offense to what I said above. I 100% appreciate your reporting, and I believe you have been very informative in regards to the search. However, and I hope you understand this, until someone is formally hired I take reporting from all outlets with only the slightest validity as too often reporting tends to seem more like a guessing game in hopes of being able to say “I was the first to report…” That said, I am a HUGE fan of your blog and truly appreciate your reporting on the Timberwolves franchise.
Sounds like more than the Wolves got played Jerry. Look at your post just before -
Mr. Zgoda,
In regards to the “Penn’s agent has been on the phone all day” report….is this in regards to the possibility that ESPN was wrong (wouldn’t that be a surprise…) or is this moreso the Wolves voicing their displeasure with Penn’s actions? Thanks for the insight!
I argue that all of these “failed” negotiations are a ploy to establish cover for the current office remaining intact. Period
postman - everyone is getting played. Especially the fan base. Seems to be a common MN sports theme. Keep the fan base in the dark and take all criticism as a personal attack then disregard any new ideas and stick to the same losing ways.
Sorry Jerry, that last one was me. I just wanted to see if Peterson was right. It does seem like this would poke a little hole in the validity of your posts.
“Trader” Jack McCloskey?
wade - I agree completely. Go through the motions to interview truly competent candidates, then low-ball them and restrict their power to drive them away and stick with the status quo. Brilliant.
I don’t know about that. I mean, Marc Stein was convinced Penn was signing with us, and he’s as connected as anyone. If this was a “con-job”, then it had everyone fooled.
It’s sad that we’re all being fooled by fools. Brilliant.
Max Power,
Who are these “fools” that you claim are fooling us? I’m sure you’re not talking about Taylor, the guy that graduated college in 3 years all while building up into a now billionaire NBA franchise owner. Oh, and there’s the whole getting his MBA thing too–must be a fool. So since it’s not him, it must be McHale we’re talking about…the guy that is often referred to as one of the best post players in the NBA ever, named as one of the 50 greatest ever, built a franchise into a playoff regular for 8 years all while pleasing an overly high maintenance star (KG…yes he was high maintenance…see his insistence that Hudson, Hassel, etc. be brought back while demanding Wally, in his prime, be traded out…) in the process. And who can forget his ability to keep a level head while being constantly ridiculed by the Timberwolves “genius” fans who know nothing but clearly the right way to do things. Must be Hoiberg then, I mean he had us fooled on the Mayo was drafted for us thing right?
I have seen a couple people mention Lance Blanks, but don’t know much about him. Is he young? Is he a cap or a talent guy? Not sure why the Cleveland guy would get a lot of attention, LBJ makes that team. They haven’t put a whole lot around him.
No offense taken, UofMstudent. The silliness of this whole exercise is when the team takes such steps to keep everything so secretive, you either try to make the most educated conclusions you can or you report nothing until they call the press conference. Either way, people are going to complain that you were wrong or that you aren’t telling them anything. I’d prefer to take the second approach myself and tell the Wolves just to call us when they make up their minds, which is basically what we’ve done with what we’ve put in the paper (or haven’t put in the paper) itself.
Lance Blanks was a name I (and only me) had out there for some time because I kept hearing it in different places that to me gave it credibility, but everybody, including the Cavs, has denied that he’s ever been a candidate.
Jerry,
Is Penn’s supposed promotion (assuming Bucher’s report to be true) 100% yet? Or is this just a bargaining chip that Penn will be using to get the wolves to increase their offer? I only ask because of your posting of “Penn’s agent has been on the phone with the wolves all day”…that got me to thinking what they would be on the phone about.
haha all great points U of M…
however not sure that any of those credential make for a good team owner, GM or team coach. If you truly think that McHale is successful and valuable despite his losing track record and botched management moves, then what are they waiting for? Hire him back as GM and let’s settle in for anther decade of losing and an empty Target Center.
I think people can simply see that Taylor is insane. How else to explain his insistence on keeping proven non-performers close at hand, even when he knows that’s not how to hire a GM. That insistence guarantees a candidate who is simply desperate to get in the GM door, even if they don’t have the power to Generally Manage.
If Taylor’s so concerned about money, how about letting some of the half-dozen presidents/GM’s/assistants/VPs walk out the door?
UofM — Jerry didn’t say that “Penn’s agent has been on the phone with the Wolves all day”.
He said that “Penn’s agent has been on the phone all day and the Wolves aren’t talking”.
careful pipeline,
Don’t you know that Taylor has an MBA? How could such an accomplished business man be insane? hehe
Thanks Jerry - Does all of the silence from both parties maybe hint that the wolves could be trying to get back into this thing or is this just typical wolves and the agent is busy with other stuff?
UofM Student - I think Jerry had said the agent has been on the phone all day AND the wolves haven’t been saying anything. I will have to check, but I don’t think he said the agent has been on the phone with the wolves.
Any time an agent or a candidate comes out and says something for the record in a search like this you have to wonder what the agenda is. Randy Pfund’s pronouncement last week likely was because he knew the Wolves had zeroed in on Penn and he didn’t want it to look like he got snubbed for the job. Legarie’s words to one chosen reporter could be negotiations, although usually when an agent goes public like that it’s over. I’ve checked with the Blazers to see if they will confirm Penn’s promotion and that he’s staying in Portland and haven’t received an answer yet.
Max Power–
McHale managed to construct a team that went to the playoffs for 8 CONSECUTIVE YEARS! They were then plagued by salty players (Cassell/Sprewell attitude problems), overpaid player contracts (most the result of KG’s demanding we keep his buddies around), and the way-too-easily-offended-and-overpaid-franchise-player KG pouting after hearing that GASP management would ACTUALLY think about trading he and his ridiculous contract?! Not sure how to respond to the decade of losing thing, especially when you throw in there that the wolves were in the playoffs for the whole 8 straight years thing…
I’m not vouching for Mac to be the GM, however I don’t think its fair to call he or any of the other managers fools though.
UofM Student…
If you are standing up for McHale and Taylor and the job they’ve done please take a couple of breaths because you may need a help line.
yes and lost 8 straight years - yippee!
Joe Smith deal = FOOL!!!!
Thanks Jerry! So what is your MO in this situation? Trying to get a hold of the agent, someone with the wolves, other sources? have you heard from anyone today?
made it past first round once = FOOL!!!
Edobe Ebbie (or whatever that NDL loser’s name was) = FOOL!!!
Sean–
Thanks for clarifying, I mis-read the post apparently, but I now understand my misinterpretation.
drafting Cherokee Parks = FOOL!!!
do I really need to go on and on, cuz I will…
Trying to reach the agent first, checking with people elsewhere in the league and the industry who might have heard what’s going on. I’ve left Taylor repeated messages through these weeks, including one this morning, and he hasn’t yet responded. Got him on the phone once at home in Mankato a few weeks ago and he had nothing whatsoever to say. The team’s PR staff also has nothing to say about the search and I’m sure doesn’t know. I think the only ones fully in the loop on this one are Taylor and Rob Moor. And, btw, not that anybody probably really gives a rat’s whatever about this, but this blogging, etc., is while I’m burning vacation and comp time from the season’s coverage. I’m officially supposed to be back at work in mid-June for draft coverage.
I am officially submitting my application for the General Manager position.
Mr. Slam
Thanks for the insight Jerry. Has to be frustrating covering a team like this.
At this point, if the wolves even care about saving face, they really need to go back to Lindsay and tell him that they will give him full power. That he can clean house. Almost anything else will keep the fan base so ticked off that they will be lucky to get 1,000 people in the building this season.
Is there any chance the results of the lottery tomorrow night will affect some of these negotiations? Would having a number 1 or 2 pick entice a bigger name to consider it?
Max Power–
You could make an endless list of “failures” for any franchise, so any fail you present could be matched by another organization. In regards to the 8 playoff appearances and advancing past first round once, yes this is an accomplishment. To be among the top 8 teams during a time where the west dominated the league IS an accomplishment, spin that into a negative if you’d like however the fact is that it’s an accomplishment, and a respectable one at that. And yes I am defending Mac and Taylor because of reasons that I’ve stated in my previous posts, not going to list them again. Hinder my opinions for that reason if you’d like, but I can do the same for the majority of posters in here claiming Taylor to be a fool/stupid/insane when in actuality he’s actually accomplished a number of things that require quite a bit of skill/smarts/sanity.
Still argue this has been a scam to keep current people in place and have a public alibi for it….
If Glenn likes Hoiberg so much why not just promote him? Find a veteran cap / contracts guy to work under him & not vice versa. I don’t understand how Fred can be considered good enough to be the head of scouting but not good enough to be the GM. Shouldn’t the GM be the scouting authority? Why is Glenn so afraid of putting Fred in charge?
Max Power… we did not draft Cherokee Parks. He as acquired in a trade with Dallas, and was actually an upgrade for what we traded for. That is not saying it was a great trade, or a meaningful trade by any means, but it was not one of McHale’s worst moves by any means.
It’s Ndi Ebi and believe me as one of the people on here who hate McHale more than most, and possibly more than anyone on earth… and who doesn’t have any respect for Glen Taylor as the owner of the team, and has a lot of questions about how he’s stunted the business market in Mankato because of his pipeline to colleges keeping job wages low. I am almost always behind someone who bashes the Country Club, but it does help to have some facts behind you. People hate me on here, but they can’t prove me wrong. Me I would rather be right than be fan favorite.
Glen Taylor and McHale, and the entire group have proven so dysfunctional as a group that they need to be removed, replaced, and I would kind of like to see the 2nd act of a new owner to fumigate the entire premise as a PR stunt. Repaint the walls, redo everything… this team has no culture of accountability, or of success, and it doesn’t matter how many billions you are worth in other areas of life, or how many amazing post up moves you had as a player… as a VP, as a coach, and as a spokesperson for the team McHale has failed. As owner, and decision maker of the team… Glen Taylor has failed. His stubborn refusal remove McHale has cost this team hundreds of millions of dollars, and lost a generation of fans. Bad decisions are the rule at Target Center. So I don’t disagree with you, but when you are shooting off… take aim then fire… don’t just shoot your mouth to the sky and hope for luck.
This is a PR disaster for the Wolves. The continuing dropping out of legitimate candidates like Lindsey, Pfund, and Penn makes us look really bad. If we end up with Kahn, I’m going to quit going to Wolves games and quit watching the team. GT needs to step up and do what it takes to make the right hire, whether that involves giving the new GM total control over personnel, salary cap, and the Coach or whatever. Stop trying to be too cheap and stop meddling in personnel and coaching matters. I was at a concert recently where the very mention of the Timberwolves brought spontaneous boos and derision from the crowd. GT is losing his limited fan base, this team needs to become relevant again in the Twin Cities now. The Minnesota Wild have a chance to make the Wolves look really bad if the Wild comes out with an experienced GM or assistant GM and spend the money and give the keys to running the franchise over to the new GM.
U of M student,
With the Gopher basketball team coming together under Tubby Smith, I suggest that you pay attention to the Gopher team and quit drinking the Kool-Aid in defending Taylor. Unless you work for the Wolves, then you’d better do all you can to drum up support before the next round of layoffs come.
UofM — Let’s talk about some of those things:
“Salty players”: Cassell and Sprewell were known to be tempermental BEFORE the Wolves acquired them. McHale and Taylor signed off on rolling the dice with those guys. They don’t get off easy on that one.
“Overpaid player contracts”: It’s up to McHale (and Taylor) to be the adults and put their foot down if KG is asking for something that shouldn’t be done. what is McHale’s purpose if he is just going to let KG tell him what to do?
“way-too-easily-offended-and-overpaid-franchise-player pouting”: Taylor and McHale are the guys who signed that “overpaid franchise player” not once, but twice to contract extensions. I would also point out that the Los Angeles Lakers had to deal with a pouting superstar recently. Instead of caving in, they held firm and instead made a deal to bring in more talent to help that superstar.
UofM Student.
The Joe Smith debacle is more than enough for McHale to have been fired.
His steadfast openness about how much he hated dealing with agents was enough to have hired a veteran to manage that aspect of the job (yet we haven’t seen squat for free agents coming here, and don’t blame the damn weather!).
His unmistakeable Al Davis like ability to draft. Ndi Ebi, Paul Grant… his ineptitude in the 2nd round of the draft until Craig Smith who is the 2nd best 2nd round player we’ve ever had… I think that says something on a negative scale!
How Kevin McHale handled the Sam Cassell situation was terrible.
How he and the team handled the Latrell Spreewell situation was almost as bad, except we were very lucky to find out that Spreewell was a bigger idiot than McHale and company.
Well that’s what we were kind of saying, that Hoiberg probably doesn’t have the business experience for the top job, at least not yet.
Jerry: does it bug you at all that you keep getting scooped on these stories? I thought Taylor had a gag order on this hire?
UofM Student…
Your arguement that he was one of the greatest postup players ever makes him knowledgeble about the game… Dexter Manley was an awesome DT for the Washington Redskins who was a pro bowl calibur talent. Retires, and admits he can’t read or write. Just because McHale is tall and has some charm in a conversation doesn’t mean he’s going to be able to translate into a good VP, or decision maker. Ted Williams was the greatest hitter that ever lived, and a lousy manager… Gardenhire was a terrible baseball player so was Tony LaRussa and they are great managers… A does not always beget B my friend.
Jerry,
You guys really need to get a sports article or column written in the Trib about this disfunctional GM search. Put Souhan or Reusse or someone on the job. GT needs to see some pressure applied to doing the right thing and giving real control and real money over to the next GM and get this dwindling fan base excited again. The team has been out of the playoffs for 5 years and this is the crucial year to make smart decisions with the 3 first round picks and upcoming cap room. Is Taylor serious about building a winning, title-contending team or not ?
Sure Taylor wants to win, but he wants to make money first. He doesn’t understand that you have to put some money into your business before you can start making money. He needs to do something to get people into the seats. Winning will do that, but he needs to get people in the FO to find the right players.
Jerry,
I know you’re not big on the Bill Simmons idea, but can’t they at least interview him? As he recently said, and I’m paraphrasing here, all they have to do is fly him in, take him to dinner, interview him and it will be a huge national story even if they have no intention of hiring him. All Taylor would do is spend a small amount of money to draw big interest to the Wolves.
Seems to make sense, doesn’t it?
Rarely does an NBA franchise make money on a year-to-year basis. Nearly all of the profits Taylor will make from the Wolves will be when he sells the team for a ton more than he paid for them.
UofM Student.
All those things I mentioned aside… the Trenton Hassell contact, the need for Rickey Cancer Davis, and THUD Hudson… signing a what 5 year deal for Maddog even at 2.2 million was a stupid move.
They lucked into KG. Had they had a top 4 pick they would have taken one of the 4 players that went ahead of KG… They took a chance and got really lucky. I won’t blame him or them for the Marbury deal, but they sure didn’t maximize their opportunities in that deal either. They treated the situation like a first time parent with a baby with the first dirty diaper in public. Had they not been a professional sports team it may have been cute and comical, but living here through it… Kevin McHale has embaressed the entire state, and Glen Taylor has very little credibility outside of his checkbook among the NBA elite for not doing something sooner, not doing more, and for not putting the people in place to do a successful job.
While we may not be able to change your mind on anything… please realize your arguement has about as much merit as a Michelle Bachmann speech.
Every time anything happens with the TWolves half the posts involve bringing up the littany of Mistakes that occurred in the past. If we have to view every single move this franchise makes under the lens of their past incompetencies, why do you even comment on the board.
We talk about why Bill Simmons can’t be a good hire because he has no experience, and the state at the same time that Glent Taylor, an extremely intelligent and successful busines man, cannot learn from any of his past mistakes and therefore every decision he makes is immediately reacted to as wrong, bad PR, not paying enough money, not giving enough control, etc.
The news stories surrounding these candidates have been horribly inaccurate throughout the process, yet everybody quotes the speculation of control and money issues as hard facts that are CLEARLY the reason they haven’t hired a candidate. Well I’m sorry if I just can’t be as irrational as some of you.
Getting the right guy is much more important than securing PR for a GM move. None of the people on this board or the general public for that matter will give a rip how this process went down, it’s only going to be judged by wins and losses. Attendance and fan support is dirrectly correllated to Wins, nothing else matters.
What’s the worst case scenario, Fred and Stack run the draft. I am not that excited or angry if that’s the case. They screwed up last year by going for the Hype and picking Mayo, but redeemed themselves with the lopsided trade with Memphis. Without knowing what was talked about in the draft room, can’t really judge what happened, only that in the end it was the best possible result.
It’s always going to be a roll of the dice, who’s excited for the lottery tomoprrow night?
I know it’s been said, but it needs repeating.
BILL SIMMONS!
“If we have to view every single move this franchise makes under the lens of their past incompetencies, why do you even comment on the board.”
Not sure I see the argument there. The franchise is at a crossroads and some of us, based on past performance, would like to see a wholesale culture change in the organization. I don’t think that’s unreasonable or unwarranted given the state of the franchise.
I appreciate your optimism but if you want everyone who doesn’t share it to stop posting, or by extension stop being Wolves fans, you’re going to be a very lonely fellow indeed.
“It’s always going to be a roll of the dice, who’s excited for the lottery tomoprrow night?”
If I knew we had new leadership at the helm I would be, but if it’s still the current crew I’m not particularly optimistic they’ll maximize whatever pick they do get.
Centrist — This process (for one that presumably has been underway since December) is a mess right now. While one can’t vouch for all the conversations that have been going on, it’s clear that something is amiss, as the Wolves have been ping-ponging from candidate to candidate. It’s clear that Penn was a second-tier candidate who wasn’t even interviewed until Lindsey was out of the running.
It’s just an absurd way to go about it. You identify your candidates, interview them in a short window, re-interview the finalists and make your hire.
“I know it’s been said, but it needs repeating.
BILL SIMMONS!”
Just what this circus needs: a pudgy, blowhard ringmaster. No thanks.
I hope someone else posts before I hit submit so I don’t have the rare triple post.
Jerry,
Thanks for keeping us posted. I appreciate the extra work you’re doing to keep us remaining (and dwindling) Wolves’ fans in the loop!
-Pescadero1
Number 1 pick tomorrow night? … Bill Simmons in the near future? … Could this be the turning point for the franchise?
Centrist — Gendo is right that you do have to view future decision this team makes in terms of what has happened in the past because it’s the same people making the decision making, and because the owner is insisting that these same people who have been making bad decisions be retained.
You either want to make changes or you don’t. If Taylor thinks things are so hunky-dory with his basketball operations, he never should have kicked McHale downstairs in the first place.
excellent point Gendo
Sean -
“It’s clear that something is amiss”
Your clarity is based on the reporting of the process which has been wrong at a every point.
Speculation shouldn’t be something that gives you clarity.
Centrist:
Well, let’s say that the reports emerging about potential candidates have been false. Even if we were to accept that the fact that they are apparently still undergoing this process so near to the draft and free agency is troubling.
Centrist — So you think this process is going along just fine, then? The Wolves’ season has been over for a month, and Taylor has known since December he’s needed to hire somebody. We’ve had three candidates pull out. What would it take for you to think that maybe it’s not going so well?
My Comments are being moderated and not posting because apparently I don’t share the anger that sells papers. Sorry I can’t respond.
Centrist, blogs have nothing to do with selling papers, which is why the industry is in the mess it’s in. I believe I’m the only one who would be moderating your comments and I have not done so, unless you were the one posting under my name. I have had my posts disappear from time to time, vanished into cyberspace. Perhaps that is what happened. Otherwise, to what are you referring? And your contention that the reporting has been wrong at every case? Are you suggesting Lindsey wasn’t a serious candidate but, among other things, balked at taking the psychological tests Taylor and Moor are asking candidates to take, that the Wolves didn’t become quite enamored with David Kahn for a time, that Randy Pfund wasn’t interviewed or that Penn wasn’t offered the job?
Expression,
My comment regarding McHale as a post player legend was in response to the whole “he’s a failure/fool” claim made prior, I was just pointing out that he had actually achieved quite a bit and find it amusing to have people on a newspaper blog thread valuing his accomplishments at such a low level.
Centrist,
I applaud your post as you seem to realize there is a bit more to things than what most on here seem to think.
Jerry,
I am sorry to strike a nerve. While I don’t want to bring up the changing business model for those in your industry, and besides, the Star Tribune has remained relatively healthy on a subscriber basis than other rags accross the country, of course I don’t dispute that the wolves weren’t interested in the candidates.
What I do dispute are the reasonings either by the organization or by the individual candidates themselves as to why they either weren’t given an offer or why they turned it down.
Multiple reports cited Kahn was given an offer for the job. Kahn denies this. The Pionner press even reported a salary that was offered to Kahn. Dennis Lindsay’s reason for not taking the job are speculation because he never made a statment. Yet the reasons cited apparently are due to “control issues.” Simiarly Pfund said he was withdrawing due to “other opporunities.” Without knowing what those reasons are for candidate withdrawals or the organization not wanting to go with them, blaming the organization for a poor process or bad PR is ineffective because it becomes speculation.
Centrist–
It seems as though you and I are among the VERY VERY few that are able to look at the Wolves without cynical biases…and I think it’s fair to say neither of us have a chance of persuading others of any views different than plague this thread
And to the whole “Your comment is awaiting moderation.” On the last several posts I submit a comment and above my comment those exact words appear, and then the comment is never made public. What most likely is happening is a word or symbol used in my post is being flagged by your blogging software and needs approval to be publicly posted. I didn’t use any swear words, and was civil, so not quite sure what would have the flagged the post other than some sort of content filter.
I wouldn’t call it cynical, I’d call it skeptical. And it’s a perspective the organization has fairly deserved.
Continuing to operate in fundamentally the same way while expecting different results is, as the saying goes, a sign of mental illness. Unless something significantly changes within the organization there’s no reason to expect the outcome to be different.
That is not cynicism.
You didn’t strike a nerve. Only my periodontist does that…
Well, for the sake of this fanbase’s sanity I hope the Timberwolves manage to move up in the lottery. I think everyone can agree they desperately need some kind of positive sign to keep most of those who are left from going off the deep end.
Trail Blazers wanted to talk to Cho … Before the Portland Trail Blazers hired Tom Penn as their assistant general manager, they called the Sonics to request permission to speak to assistant GM Rich Cho … The Sonics turned down the Blazers’ request, and Kevin Pritchard then hired Penn … http://www.thespread.com/forum/index.php?topic=53805.msg56446#msg56446
“Clueless in Minneapolis”.
This is a PR disaster for the Wolves??! Get serious. My God, you’d think from the negative comments here we are all immensely better than a billionaire in negotiating. Geez, I doubt that even ONE of you has ever made even one talent hire at $3M+ let alone a whole team full.
Guys, sh*t happens! There’s never a guarantee that a quality candidate will be landed… but guess, what? They’re not in THAT short supply (especially with several teams almost calving financially and dumping personnel) and there’s really not that much hurry. The current T-Wolves admin already have an idea of who they want in the draft… What they don’t know, until deep into summertime workouts, is who else they might trade for or keep.
So, forgive me if I think it a little more than arrogant when I heard such idiotic comments as “There’s no sense in having our chains jerked around any more by Taylor, Moor and this group of clowns.”
“Clueless in Minneapolis”.
This is a PR disaster for the Wolves??! Get serious. My God, you’d think from the negative comments here we are all immensely better than a billionaire in negotiating. Geez, I doubt that even ONE of you has ever made even one talent hire at $3M+ let alone a whole team full PLUS front office staff.
Guys, sh*t happens! There’s never a guarantee that a quality candidate will be landed… but guess, what? They’re not in THAT short supply (especially with several teams almost calving financially and dumping personnel) and there’s really not that much hurry. The current T-Wolves admin already have an idea of who they want in the draft… What they don’t know, until deep into summertime workouts, is who else they might trade for or keep.
So, forgive me if I think it a little more than arrogant when I hear such idiotic comments as “There’s no sense in having our chains jerked around any more by Taylor, Moor and this group of clowns.”
