Everybody attends Wolves pre-draft workouts except for Mac
Posted on June 1st, 2009 – 1:11 PMBy Jerry Zgoda
Larry Bird was at Target Center Monday morning. So was Danny Ainge. Flip Saunders, Rod Thorn, John Hammond, Daryl Morey, Jack Sikma and Randy Wittman were, too.
Kevin McHale was not.
The Wolves held the first morning of four days of pre-draft workouts that brought representatives from 20 NBA teams Monday and while front-office staff Fred Hoiberg, Jim Stack, Rob Babcock, Zarko Durisic and assistant coaches Jerry Sichting, Dean Cooper and J.B. Bickerstaff all were there (Ed Pinckney is in China on NBA business), McHale didn’t attend because he and new presidentof basketball operations David Kahn still are in discussions to determine his future with the team.
“We’re still very much in a process to determine if he, or whoever, will coach,” Kahn said after the morning workouts. “Until that process plays itself out, I think it would put too much pressure on him and it’d probably make it very uncomfortable with other people here. I think it’s not appropriate yet until we resolve it. It’d be more appropriate once we have it resolved.”
Kahn said he and McHale will follow last week’s initial meeting with another this week, at a time he wouldn’t disclose.
Asked if it will be dinner again, he said, “Probably. I like to eat. I need to eat. The days are long.”
The scouts and execs for the NBA teams here watched Ohio State’s B.J. Mullens, North Carolina’s Danny Green, Israeli forward Omri Casspi, among others, work out this morning and this afternoon they’re about to see such players as UCLA Darren Collison and Gonzaga’s Austin Daye.
Here’s the list of guys for tomorrow. Included is North Dakota State guard — and Albert Lea’s own Ben Woodside — in the afternoon session: Maryland guard Greivis Vasquez, French guard Nando De Colo, Syracuse forward Paul Harris, Kentucky guard Jodie Meeks, Michigan State center Goran Suton, Gonzaga center Josh Heytvelt, Ukraine guard Patrick Beverley, LSU forward Tasmin Mitchell, Wisconsin forward Joe Krabbenhoft, Missouri forward DeMarre Carroll and Gonzaga guard Micah Downs.
Tuesday’s group is pretty much all second-round prospects, except maybe a guy like Carroll could sneak into the end of the first round. Anybody the Wolves will consider picking with that sixth overall selection won’t come to town until later in the month for an individual workout.
Hoiberg and Stack leave Thursday for Treviso, Italy and the three-day Eurocamp run by Wolves scout Pete Philo.
147 Responses to "Everybody attends Wolves pre-draft workouts except for Mac"
Jerry:
Is Luke Nevill a real prospect for The Wolves (even as a non-drafted guy) or was he just there to have another 7-foot body to match up with BJ Mullens?
Certainly he’s a guy they’ll look at. That kind of size always gets a look. In the brief time we got to see them work out, he just looked big, that’s all you could tell. I’m guessing he’ll be a free agent signing for someone who probably will end up overseas unless he really impresses in these pre-draft workouts.
Jerry,
What kind of stuff do they do at the workout? Scrimmaging?
I think if I was a guy like Nevill just looking to make an NBA roster as an undrafted FA (like Dwayne Jones a couple years back), it would be hard to find many better situations than Minnesota’s. I know it was in The MWC, but to be that conference’s MVP and Defensive POY is pretty nice.
Sounds like he’s soft and skinny, more than anything else.
If Hoiberg and Kahn run the workouts like McHale did, they’re half drills, half scrimmage. From the videos I saw the last couple of years, McHale liked to pull out a playbook play or two and have the guys run through it, to see how quickly they picked up on new stuff.
Interesting note: it appears that the Thunder are looking to trade down to take Steph Curry. We should inquire…their pick is almost guaranteed to be either Rubio or Thabeet.
Repost from last thread: I know this board doesn’t love Curry and many of you would like Evans, but check out this poll of 15 GM’s ranking the PG prospects of this draft in Chad Ford’s latest column.
1. Rubio (Avg. Vote 1.9)
2. Curry (2.4)
3. Flynn (3.0)
4. Holliday (3.8)
5. Evans (4.5)
6. Teague (6.5)
7. Jennings (6.8)
8. Maynor (8)
9. Lawson (9.5)
10. Mills (10)
Interesting stuff in that Jennings and Evans aren’t getting as much love as Mock Drafts suggest.
I agree that Evans is a shooting guard, so maybe that affects the situation; however the quoted take on Evans from a GM seems spot on to me, in that Defenses are going to sag away from Evans because he can’t shoot, take away the lane, and limit his effectiveness.
Jerry,
I know it’s very early to tell but who would you rather have at the 6th pick? James Harden if he falls to us, Tyreke Evans or DeMar De Rozen, I personally would love to get James Harden, and then either draft or sign a point guard and have Randy Foye come of the bench to be our 6th Man. Also it’s said that B.J. Mullens will be taken somewhere around our 18th overall pick. I know there’s not a lot of 7′footers in the draft, how did Mullens look in the workouts and do you think it’d be worth taking him with our 18th overall pick? Thanks for the updates.
Jerry,
How did Omri Casspi look? In watching video of him he looks really athletic and explosive. I wouldn’t mind the Wolves taking him with one of their later 1st round picks.
McHale is a goner - you know he would have been there if there was any chance he was staying.
Bob Cobb:
I agree it looks like McHale is on the way out. Even if he remains as coach, it looks like his ability to influence personnell decisions is permanetly over which is the most improtant thing as a wolves fan IMO. Whether he remains as coach isn’t an issue to me.
That’s odd that Evans gets thrown in with the point guards. I guess it was the position he played in college, but he’s very much a 2 guard in the NBA.
Still, even as a point guard, he beat out Jennings, Maynor, and Lawson in votes. That’s pretty impressive.
And ya…the combine has basically confirmed my assertion that Curry is going to do fine as a point guard in the NBA.
I still say we go with Centrists’ idea of grabbing the #5 pick and going with a Curry/Evans duo. That gives us the skill and shooting most of you are clamoring for from Harden, as well as the athleticism that us Evans supporters want.
Bryan:
In addition to OKC, it looks like a lot of teams looking to add picks or move their position up or down. This from today’s Chad Ford Insider:
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• With draft day now less than a month away, a number of teams are looking to either get in the draft or grab another first-round pick.
The Knicks are trying to use their considerable wealth (a team can pay up to $3 million for a pick) to search for a seller. They have the eighth pick in the draft, but would like another pick. With the team trying to manage its cap, draft picks are a cheap source of labor. And with the economy turning sour for NBA teams, the Knicks might seize the opportunity.
The Rockets, who don’t have a pick in the first round, are tying to get one.
The Pacers, who are picking 13th, also wouldn’t mind one more pick and shouldn’t have a hard time finding a taker. A number of teams don’t seem too enthralled with this year’s talent and are willing to sell for the right price. The Wizards have a high lottery pick they’d consider moving.
The Pistons at No. 15, the Hornets at No. 21 and the Blazers at No. 24 are also all willing to deal. And a few teams with multiple first-round picks — the Thunder, Grizzlies and Bulls — might be willing to sell, too.
If we can get Mullens with our second pick we’re getting a hell of a prospect. This guy is an athlete. He is very young. He is HUGE. And don’t tell me he’s not going to be quickly better than about half the players on our current team, including Smiley Brewer, the Rhino, Mad Dog and Sebastian Telfair…
I definitely think Mullens would be a good pick at #18 if available. He has the body and size to be great as the 3rd big in our rotation and it beats paying a free-agent or lottery pick starter money to be that 3rd big.
Too bad Jerome Jordan didn’t declare…
They do 3 on 3 scrimmaging since there’s only six guys per session and a lot of drills. Hard to tell how anybody looks because we (media weasels) only get to see the final 15 minutes and they’re not doing much but a couple drills then anyway. Mullens is long, thin and legitimate NBA size. I think the big question is his mental makeup and whether he’s mature enough to make the leap. After the workouts, Kahn said the team’s looking to add length and shotblocking, but it won’t necessarily be through the draft, could be a trade or perhaps a signing.
Centrist - I couldn’t agree with you more on Mullens. I’d much rather get our back-up center later in the draft. Mullen has some issues… here are a few anonymous quotes from NBA executives:
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“You watch him in the combine and it’s pretty easy to fall in love,” one GM said. “There are a lot of raw tools there to work with. But in the interview you get the sense that it’s going to be a project. I think he’s a good kid, but he’s got issues to work through.”
Mullens got pretty mixed reviews from his interview process, with one GM saying “He’s better than you think,” and another one saying “This kid doesn’t get it, and I don’t think he’s going to get it.”
Two free agents I’d look at are Chris Andersen and Ramon Sessions. If we make an offer a step above what we think Denver and Milwaukee will match, we can probably get them both for very reasonable amounts. The Bucks seem to severely undervalue Sessions, and the Nuggets are under serious cap restrictions and have potentially as many as 7 free agents to deal with.
The “doesn’t get it and may never get it” is what I hear most often about Mullens, which is why I’m rather against drafting him. College scouts have been saying all year that he’s a guy who’s body is clearly way ahead of his mind and that it doesn’t look like his mind will ever catch up.
I’d love to add Birdman. Sessions only under three conditions:
1. As an offensive-minded 6th-man.
2. If we draft a developmental PG like Holiday, Jennings or Maynor.
3. If we can trade Telfair (in time, start the rookie and use Sessions as the 6th man.)
I am a big fan of Sessions and don’t need to rehash all the things I like because we’ve killed that horse on this board. But I just don’t trust his defense as a starter. But I’d love to see him come off the bench and play big minutes.
Here’s a question: If they don’t take a point guard with the sixth pick, would you rather have Maynor or Mullens with that 18th pick?
Maynor… and it’s not even close.
Oh, Maynor, no question. There’s a smoothness to his game and he’s a high IQ player and a great leader. He reminds me a ton of a young Sam Cassell.
I would love to have Birdman but I don’t see any way he leaves Denver unless we seriously overpay him. He has very deep ties to Denver as that is where he spent his time during his suspension. When he was a FA he went to Denver and asked to play there and had to get George Karl to buy into him. So even though I would love to see him here, there is absolutely no way that happens.
Jerry, do you know when most of the PGs like Jennings, Holliday, Flynn, and Curry will be coming in to work out?
Those guys will be in and out over the next two weeks after this one, probably ending up with the last workouts here on the 19th, the Friday before that next Thursday’s draft.
Birdman is reportedly Denver’s top free agent priority, but I find that hard to believe. There’s no way that JR Smith doesn’t top that list, and I bet they field serious offers to Dahntay Jones and Linus Kleiza before turning to Chris.
And honestly….overpaying him would still probably put his total contract in just the $2-3 million range. He was paid less than $1 million this year, and because of his age and past problems, I doubt his value is much more than $1.5-2 mil.
Maynor…. for what we need out of a big man I think we could find in a reasonable free agent or possibly later in the draft. A young, savvy PG (ala Cassell) would fit on this team so much better and would be great value at 18.
I think JR Smith would be more of a priority but I think Birdman has to be right behind him. The energy and boost he brings that team are immeasurable. ESPN did a piece on him last week where every member of the Nuggets said Birdman was their favorite player. I think the Nuggets realize that he is more important than just a backup big man.
He’s a very important backup, no question. And really, nearly the only one they have…after him, it’s guys like Johan Petro.
The big thing with Birdman is he’s a crowd favorite. He and JR Smith are the guys that get the Pepsi Center really going.
But again, I think if we field an offer a solid step above what the Nuggets feel like they can match, we have a good shot at bringing him here.
It’s a lot like the situation with Turiaf and the Lakers. Golden State offered Ronny a deal a step above what the Lakers were willing to match (and no, I’m not suggesting we offer Chris $4mil/year). But for a team over the cap…$4mil a year is actually $8mil a year. If we offer Birdman say, $1.2-1.5 a year, knowing the Nuggets are under owner mandate to stay at the cap, will they be willing to essentially pay him $3mil/year? Definitely worth looking into.
Lebron in LA????? i can see it happening… L.A. Clippers that is… cut baron davis, draft griffin sign lebron… Kobe would cry.
Micah Downs declared for the draft? I like that guy for an undrafted pick-up. He’s a good shooter and a good athlete, although a little lean. Isn’t he like 6′6-6′8 3?
I definitely agree that we should keep an eye on Birdman. I’m guessing the Nuggets will try and use a portion of their mid-level exception to keep him.
I thought J.R. Smith signed an extension right before the season…
No way you get Birdman for under $2 million. Somebody will spend in the $3 to $4 million range for him.
Ah, you’re right they did. Well, that frees Denver up a lot more…
I’d go 3 years at $4M per for Birdman. Fills a need and does exactly what we need him to do. The energy and crowd-favorite factor also play into it.
Even if The Nuggets match, it would be a nice way to stick a division opponent with an $8M per year financial obligation (when factoring in the luxury tax). If we actually got him, then we could pool all of our resources into the backcourt.
Foo -
Chris Anderson is an unrestricted free agent, the Nuggets don’t have the ability to match.
We have to go point guard at six. There’s gonna be a really good one available, it’s a huge need, and there won’t be any centers available to us.
I really like Curry. I think he’s going to be a really good starting point guard who can hit threes and create shots for other guys. I also would love to see Jonny Flynn on the Wolves.
And can we try to trade for Tyson Chandler??? Why is nobody in the media even mentioning the possibility? New Orleans doesn’t want him, the Wolves need someone like him, and we have three two late-first round picks and expiring contracts to offer. Makes too much sense to happen, I suppose…
The Wolves really need to find guards who can defend because their perimeter defense is horrid. Curry sure can shoot, but will he be a liability defensively? Would you rather have him or a guy like Holiday?
Do people like Maynor or Teague more at 18? I believe Maynor measured in with a disappointing wingspan and reach.
How much, with that big contract, is their concern over Chandler’s long-term health. I initially thought the Thunder’s nixing of that deal was buyer’s remorse, but Chandler never was healthy down the stretch, was he?, and is that foot (toe) worrisome?
Centrist - Ahh… thanks for that. I thought he was restricted. I still say go 3x$4M. At least put a formal offer out there early in the process to set the market high for him.
MNRunLeft - I like Maynor way more than Teague. No more Tweeners on this squad, please!
Jerry - I would MUCH rather have Holiday than Curry. As I’ve said before, Jordan Hill is the key to the draft for us. If he goes before No. 6, then the odds are remarkably high that we’ll be able to get either Harden or Holiday.
I know this is a blog and all, but can’t you have somebody (maybe a 6th grader) proof read before you publish? Every time I read this POS I’ve got to re-read it about 2x to get what you were saying. For e.g.: “Until that process plays itself out, I think it would too much on him ” WTF?
Jerry:
I wouldn’t mind Holiday at all. But I just have a feeling that Curry is too special offensively to pass up. I think, especially with the half-court style the Wolves have to play because of their stud post players, Curry’s lack of athleticism isn’t as much of a problem as people are saying. And he actually is very good at picking up steals, and is really crafty in the passing lanes. That said, I wouldn’t complain at all about Holiday.
Only in Minnesota would this McHale situation drag out. Let him go already!! Move on! Why would a GM come in and want him around at this point? He’s a symbol of the old regime. Hopefully, he’s just trying to be respectful and make it seem like McHale is in the mix. But, it’s time to start anew.
Point 1: The question on Chandler is can he get healthy with an offseason (down the stretch he kept trying to play on it when maybe he shouldn’t have been) or is it a condition that is likely to be chronic? If it’s the former, they’d be foolish not to be talking to the Hornets.
Point 2: I think people sometimes get too caught up in evaluating players based solely on measurements. A person has to have requisite size for a position, but beyond that, I’m skeptical about things like wingspan and reach because it’s all about you use it. A person may have a great wingspan, but if they don’t know how to use it to their advantage, it’s pointless. When it comes to Maynor and Teague, I’ll trust my eyes and Maynor looks a lot more like a NBA PG to me, even if his measureables aren’t as ideal.
And about the Chandler thing:
I don’t think, other than this injury, he’s got a long history of being injury prone.. (correct me if I’m wrong). Give him some time to heal up, and I think he’s a huge asset to the team. Especially given that with Al and Love, he doesn’t have to play too many minutes and put extra stress on his foot.
Steve - go away. I never go the name-calling on this thing. But, please, just go away. Self-assured good guys just don’t come onto blogs and go smarty-pants on the masses. So by deduction, you’re an insecure bad guy.
Go home and kick your dog instead.
I think it’s hard to judge Curry’s D based on his stats b/c he played against such poor competition during the regular season. That being said, I sort of like the idea of getting Curry simply for his shooting ability. I think if we could pair him with a more athletic, slasher at 2 guard we would be on the right track.
Sean - My problem with getting Chandler is that as you stated, he wouldn’t need to play too many minutes. He is slated to make $11.8 & $12.7 Mil over the next two years. If he isn’t a starter then I say we use our cap space a little more wisely, especially with all the free agents in the coming years.
The thing about Curry is that we wouldn’t be getting him simply for his shooting ability. He’s a lights-out shooter, but he’s also clever with the ball, a good passer, and a leader/ clutch go-to-guy. Chad Ford has gone as far as to compare him to Steve Nash. I think he’s a perfect sidekick to Big Al.
And that’s true about Chandler’s contract. But he is a pretty good talent at a big need for the Wolves. And considering how hard of a time we’re gonna have getting free agents to come to Minnesota, I think it’d be smart to use that cap space to take on good players in trades. I think walking away from this draft with a Point Guard X (Curry, Flynn, Holiday) plus Chandler would improve the Wolves by 15 wins next year.
An injury-prone, $12M per year player at a position that isn’t our greatest need?
I’ll take a pass on Tyson Chandler.
Maybe if we were in good shape at every other position with a glaring hole and the cash available to bring a center in… but otherwise, I’ll go Mullens or a cheap FA to rotate in off the bench and save our cash and resources to shore up the PG and SG spots.
It gives me the willies to consider adding pricey centers with question-marks like Chandler and Dalembert. It speaks volumes that both N.O. and Philly are actively looking to dump those two guys.
Sam - gotta have a back-court that defends. That’s the best way to add 15 wins next year.
We’ve already got a nice foundation of scorers with Al, Love and Foye. We need players who can stop penetration at the PG and SG spots.
I’m a big fan of Curry’s in the right system, but he’s just not a good fit here compared to our other needs. If we already had strong players at PG and SG, I’d be doing cart-wheels if we could add a savvy, perimeter shooting threat like Curry.
Chandler: have the team docs check him out and go from there.
Birdman: 4M/yr is to much. I think 2-2.5M/yr will be enough to submit a solid offer. Of course as someone mentioned w/his Denver ties he make take less just to stay there. Thats what you get when you take a gamble on a guy and it pays off. Loyalty.
Sessions: if we can land him, and i seriously hope they are talking to him and/or his agent on what he is looking for…it’d be a lot easier to take a SG w/6 and see what PG’s are left at 18. Or see if we can’t trade up to guarantee getting Maynor. I agree w/whoever said he’s a reminder of Cassell.
Mullens: i think dude is a complete head case ala McCants.
Seems to me as the draft nears more teams are becoming enamored w/the prospects. Apparantly its not as weak as initially thought. There are some studs in there, always are. Just have to find ‘em. That Telfair contract w/team options is looking real nice about now. Either improve or you’re gone kid. Hope he’s in a gym somewhere right now, cuz he knows his potential replacement is going to be drafted.
Foo,
I hear ya. I guess I just have a man-crush on Curry. I think that if he bulks up, adds 15 pounds of muscle over the next few years, combined with his instincts and underrated quickness, he can be a pretty good defender.
If he does that, then his already-polished and extremely impressive offensive game makes him a better player than Holiday, who I see as bigger but less skilled.
And maybe you’re right about Chandler. I was just thinking that we’re not going anywhere without a shot-blocker, we can’t get Thabeet, and I don’t like Mullens at all. (Talented but raw players with attitude problems and lack of basketball sense don’t flourish in losing cultures like the Wolves’.)
Chris Anderson isn’t a good person and he’s a average player. So bringing a a hole to the team who likes to find trouble does nothing for your front line. Birdman more like d-bag.
Micah Downs is a 6″8″ leaper with a solid overall skill set. May lack the jumper need to contribute full time. Good end of bench/energy guy. From my point of view.
I do think we must add some size to the front line, and for once it would be nice to draft a gamer at SG. (if there is one in this draft?) I also believe we need players that match up size wise with the NBAs general sizes at the position. Seems like we continue to reach for undersized players at their position with just ok skills instead of the baller sitting right there at that pick. I know, it falls on the failure of the past regime. I hope we can pull the proverbially head from arse, man up, and make sound choices. We have a solid base right now. Twolves need to build on that and grow as a team. This team not going to change overnight. It’s a culture that now has a opportunity to be influenced in a different direction. Fan up posters, Pooh for life.
Sessions, incidentally, is one of those players fans of every last team have been tracking avidly since his late-season assist totals two years ago.
Aside from his instructive role as someone who made good out of the D-League — farm system please — I don’t think he’s going to have much direct relevance to the Wolves’ future. He’ll be overpaid by the likes of the Warriors or something, I imagine…. In a past life he’d have been Isiah Thomas’s MLE signing this year.
I don’t understand all the love in the media about Harden. I’ve seen him play a few times, and he looks pretty mediocre. He looks like a poor-man’s Randy Foye. So, why do so many experts rate him so high? He has bust written all over him.
(Jerry — what’s the deal with my posts sometimes, randomly, “waiting for moderation”? Seriously, even when baited once I haven’t been involved in any flame wars…. Seems odd.)
If Mullens is solid in his workouts I think I’d lean towards drafting him at #18. Decent Centers are impossible to trade for and the Wolves would have an easier time trading or signing a PG.
Telfair’s contract has a player option, not a team option.
Why was Randy Wittman there?
Centrist
Defenses have sagged off Rando and Rose and they still seem to get theirs. Why can’t Evans do the same thing?
Foo- I agree with you about Eric Maynor over Teague. Maynor looks like an NBA ready PG who can come in and produce right away. It’s completely clear that they absolutely need someone over Telfair at PG and Maynor, Teague, or Lawson at the 18th pick would all be an upgrade over Sebastian.
jballer_13- I couldn’t agree with you more about Curry who is just a natural scorer and excellent shooter. He should be able to get steals and with the right coach like Sam Mitchell could definetly help him improve on D. I would take Curry in a heartbeat over Holliday. You just can’t teach his natural scoring ability.
What are some opinions on getting Andre Miller. I know this is a Guard heavy draft, but Andre Miller would be a great free agent pickup who is a very solid perimeter D player and would be able to run our offense and help take pressure of Big Al. With that 6th pick we get a solid scorer to like Harden/Curry/Evans, put Foye as the 6th man and things are looking slightly bettter.
If it isn’t obvious that McHale should be the coach, then shouldn’t it be obviouse that he SHOULDN’T be the coach? I don’t see how there’s any gray area there. What am I missing?
I’d prefer Maynor over Mullens, but wouldn’t have any problem rolling the dice on him at No. 18 if Maynor is gone.
Chros:
Wittman was hired as an assistant coach to Flip Saunders in Washington.
Jerry - Have you heard anything on the Wolves possibly moving up to pick up Rubio?
Who is the Wittless Wonder working with? Flip again?
Rubio- The Wolves don’t have enough to move up in the top 3 unless a team makes a mistake of Kevin McHale proportions.
jama -
The reason I don’t think Evans can do the same is because his assist to turnover numbers don’t suggest that he can be as effective of facilitator as Rose and Rondo.
If he can’t play the point due to turnover issues and lack of decisionmaking, which is a cited weakness of Evans in nearly every breakdown of his game, I envision him as a ball dominant 2 guard that can’t shoot. He is a different player than Rondo or Rose.
When all is said and done Evans with be the catch of this draft. He is a bona-fide stud. The second coming of Mitch Richmond. We need to do what it takes to land this guy.
I just get the sinking feeling we are going to get stuck with Thabeet. From what I have read he is the one with the immature work attitude.
No no no, Thabeet’s work ethic is peerless. That’s not a problem at all.
Read Chad Ford’s pre-draft thing on Thabeet. He went and watched a couple of big men workouts, and one of the trainers is quoted as saying Thabeet “has no quit in him”.
There’s a lot of holes in Thabeet’s game, but lack of effort has never been one of them.
Pauly:
Harden=Mitch Richmond
Evans=Jerry Stackhouse
I believe what I see. I don’t like the look of Harden. Harden reminds me of Jalen Rose. And that isn’t because he is left handed.
Let’s play a game, what’s the lowest you’d let the top PGs fall before trying to make a deal or draft them?
1. Rubio - 4
2. Curry - 9
3. Flynn - 14
4. Holliday - 7
5. Evans - 10
6. Teague - 18
7. Jennings - 14
8. Maynor - 21
9. Lawson -18
T-Wolves look like they might be in a tough situation because there are so many prospects at point that may be a bargain later on in the draft. Where do you put everyone. Don’t want to overspend with your pick.
I also think if Thabeet is there at 6 you have to take him, and work a deal for one of the bargain PGs that begin to fall out of the draft with a couple picks. Any idea if/when he’s coming here to work out?
Pauly,
Just curious, what have you seen of Harden?
Sha Sha -
Randy Foye shot 41% from the field his final year of college. Harden average higher than 50% in his two seasons. We drafted Foye and tried to turn him into a PG, Harden is a clear 2 guard with excellent length for the position. I don’t see how the two players are comparable.
I am just saying what I see in games and video of him in motion, remind me of Jalen Rose. Evans reminds me of a player that has the ability to do what it takes to get a job done. Whether it is bringing the ball up court or going to the hole. Don’t give me any trouble about his shooting. He is just a year out of high school. Sometimes people on this page forget that kids can get better. That is why I still really like Love. The guy that we have to make sure isn’t plateauing is Al Jefferson.
I think there’s a reasonable chance Rubio falls out of the top 3 before this thing is all over.
As for Thabeet, I’d guess he won’t come here. A guy like him probably will only work out for the top three, four teams unless there’s serious discussion about the Wolves moving up and down. They might have to go see a couple of those top guys if it seems like there’s a chance they can get in the derby.
And Steve, what Foo said…
Pauly -
While we may disagree with Evans and Harden, I completely agree in that I am excited to see how Love’s game develops. I think its possible that in 2 years he is our best player. I also agree in that moving forward, Al becomes our best trade chip and depending on Love’s development and Al’s lack thereof, things may change.
As I’ve stated in other threads, the interesting comparison for me in regards to Harden vs. Evans is that Harden shot 2 more free throws per game than Evans and also scored better in transition and finished better at the rim. I’m not taking anything away from Evans athleticism, I just think that Harden measuring in with only a .5″ difference in Wingspan and the entire skill set he brings to the table is going to make him a more effective player in the league. Especially since statistics show that the things people get excited about in Evans game, ball handling, passing, and defense, Harden showed via statistics that he was a better Slasher and had better assist / to ratios than Evans albeit playing off the ball, yet he still had the same amount of assists as Evans.
As an old fart who has watched a lot of hoops, I don’t base my preference on any more than just watching a person with my own eyes. I make more of a judgment on the way a player carries himself and body language. I want players that want it so bad that they don’t care how they look when they are doing it. As much as I can’t stand Kobe, he personifies competing. Carmelo proved he is more concerned how he looked. That above-it-all attitude showed itself in the conference final game.
That being said, this is the most fun time for the league. Finals and then the draft.
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it might actually be easier to see where all the PG’s go, and then make a draft-day trade w/some of our expiring contracts and our picks to land him. take the best SG at 6 unless Thabeet is somehow available, take Maynor/Mullens at 18, whoever is left at 28–that cassipi kid is looking good.
I think Maynor is going to be the best out of this PG group, kids fearless and has balls.
The fact is who falls to us at 6 is going to dictate the rest of the draft.
I’d be for picking up Andre Miller but i think he’ going to want a lot of $ and its not worth it for a rebuilding team. draft young, let ‘em play and learn. we’re not at the stage where adding that one veteran is going to give any significant improvement. perhaps after next years draft.
Arenal nobody cares what you have to say you impostor.
I see the temptation to take a SG at #6 because you can get a better PG at 18 (assuming you don’t want Mullens). However, I think you have to make sure you get the guy you want at #6. I want a guy who I am as sure as I can be takes that position off the table for the next several drafts. I don’t want a serviceable SG just to get a serviceable PG at 18. I like Harden at 6, but I’m not sure I wouldn’t pass on him if Holiday was available. Or if something in the workouts suggested another PG could contribute more. Right now I really don’t like the idea of taking any other SG at 6, because I have no desire to have to place a bet on which of these tremondous athletes is going to develop an outside shot that is the bare minimum requirement for that position in the NBA. If Harden and Holiday are gone, maybe I’m looking more keenly at DeRozan? I think there is slightly more faith that DeRozan will have more outside game than Evans. Who knows. I have an image of Evans, no matter how talented, as being ball-dominant, which is not my taste in a 2. The Wolves offense was stagnant enough without one more guy trying to do it all.
are any of these guys that are going to be there have a realistic shot a the NBA? I don’t think one of those guys will be on a roster next year. No idea why they put these kids through that kind of expectations. Just not fair to the kids.
Meeks is the only one that could get a roster spot.
I really wish the TWolves would think about trading some of their picks to move up and take Rubio. He an all star type point guard this team needs.
I like the idea of Mullens, but if he is still there at 18 then that is a bad sign. The depth at PG makes it likely that they will like one at 18. I just worry that there won’t be any other big men available via trade or as free agents. The Wolves could really use a big man with a pulse.
deal wid it says:
June 1st, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Chris Anderson isn’t a good person and he’s a average player. So bringing a a hole to the team who likes to find trouble does nothing for your front line. Birdman more like d-bag.
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REALLY? as a back-up Center that can rebound and block shots, he is about as good as comes and bring excitment to the arena. He was second in the league in block shots(coming off the bench) Also, JR Smith isn’t a free agent. LK, Anderson and Dontay Jones are free agents and both the Nuggets and players all want to come back from what I’ve heard.
On a side note, I would hate to have someone on the Wolves that has playoff experience.
_____________________________________
I think we all agree that McFale shouldn’t be allowed in the draft room this year.
I don’t think we can go wrong with anyone but Curry. I think he will be a BIG bust at the next level.
I think Curry will do alright at the next level with the right team. I just don’t think that team is the Wolves. They need somebody to guard the perimeter and I think there are better options than Curry. Unless they trade down.
Good move in kicking McFail to the curb. The last thing the team needs is McFail around to evaluate talent. We’ve already suffered through 14 years of that, and it’s way past the time to move on. His whole history with the Wolves will be looked back upon as a nightmare for this franchise. The only real solution is to cut the cord and let him go, and get a restraining order just to make sure he doesn’t try to coach our bigs from the stands.
Harden might be soft..he plays in a relatively soft league. His 50 % shooting is because eh had a lot of dunks in that league. I would question picking him?
McHale, I love him, I love guys from MN and he is purely that. But the fact is great players seldom make good coaches at all, just doesn’t transfer, never has in most cases and not this one for sure. I feel bad for McHale but he got himself in a bad postion, in any level of the NBA other than playing. Front office or coaching is not for him or most players.
I just don’t see how they can trade up to a top 3 pick. We don’t have the assets that it would take… unless a team in the top 3 makes a very bad decision… so I think it’s worth exploring… I just can’t see why in the world a team with a top 3 pick would want our garbage for a top prospect. None of those teams are in horrible financial shape, and can use a PF, PG, and Center between the 3 teams.
I am not sold on Curry as an NBA baller and no way I would look at him with the 6th pick. If he were available at 18 maybe. At his best he could be Ben Gordan with 4.6 assists a game. Most likely he’s Randy Foye, and a glorified 6th man, and no offense, but we have a roster filled with 6th men with one legit starter in Blackhole Jefferson.
What are people’s thought on the Wolves packaging their picks and miller to move up. Isn’t miller pretty highly regarded in the league and he has a $9m expiring contract this year too. Any thoughts?
birdman often doesn’t play team ball. he is the birdman, even in his own mind. he tries to block way too many shots — because he is the birdman. it puts him seriously out of position on oh, maybe every third defensive set… give me mullens as a defensive big man. forget about the birdman.
Miller would likely only be enticing to a playoff type team that would be able to use him properly. The only way his expiring contract becomes attractive would be if a team was looking to dump a fat multi-year contract on us (like Zach Randolph or Chris Kaman). The only real possibility I would see to move up would be to #5 with Washington (which we’ve discussed many times in the past week). There could be a chance to get the #1 but it would not be worth it at all. I’m sure we would get one of those awful contracts dumped on us which would hamstring us for years.
Trading up for Rubio becomes a very risky move as he has stated that he may stay in Spain if the draft doesn’t work out to his liking. I doubt that he is dying to come play in MN.
I understand about the Curry issues but I will offer this…
He is and will prove to be the best pure shooter in the draft. If he is left alone he will drain the shot.
The other thing is he is a classy young man, and I think he’d be a nice guy to have on the team.
Thanks for adding an initial rather than impersonating Matty V.
Miller?
I am not sure that any of the top 3 pick teams would be interested in Miller because they don’t appear to have major cap issues as they are perenial bottom feeding teams.
“Harden might be soft..he plays in a relatively soft league”
The Pac Ten of course not known for being a good basketball conference.
Only the Twolves would ever think of having Krabbenhoff, Cardinal and Madsen on thier roster!
Well I think it’s a general workout, it’s not like the Wolves have a private workout with Krabbenhoft.
In fairness that really does sound like something they’d do though.
The softness of the pac10 is why Love, Westbrook, Mayo, and Lopez all busted as top 10 picks.
Rodman - I love your takes, but… “I think [Curry would] be a nice guy to have on the team.”
Seriously? Now we’re picking players because they’re “nice?”
Mostly just kidding with you… I like Curry too, just not at all with the No. 6 pick.
DEFENSE! DEFENSE! DEFENSE!
What’s the deal with Jennings seemingly falling? I agree with Foo about defense as a need (and about Curry at 6/bad fit with Wolves system), but if Rubio, Holiday, and Harden are gone we’ll still need a PG.
Is it just that Jennings play in Europe (and his team) doesn’t compare to NBA play so he’s a complete unknown or is there more?
T-Wolves Draft Board:
1. Griffin
2. Rubio
3. Thabeet
4. Harden
5. Derozan
6. Holliday
6 1/2: Evans
What do you all think?
I guess I meant to ask what folks think about Jennings’ game. I have read most of the online experts’ take. Why or why not Jennings, for you guys?
One more thing: Fresh off of reading some more Chad Ford, I have to point out that at least 1/2 of the comments he gets from GMs are smokescreens, by definition.
Foo,
I was thinking about what our draft board would be when we factor in whether the guy would want to come and play here (factoring in the long term likelihood that they would stay and like MN).
I get a little nervous about Harden, DeRozan, and Holiday in that they are all coming from warm places (Ariz. & LA). Harden definitely has a red flag concerning not wanting to work out for the team. DeRozan/Holiday have shown no indication that they wouldn’t want to be here, except that LA is pretty different than Minneapolis.
Rubio wouldn’t play here. Thabeet I think would. Jennings has eaten enough humble pie, that I think he’ll be fine. Curry would be fine too.
I know I’ve given K. Love crap because he was basically the 3rd pick in the draft… but I do LOVE the fact that Kevin Love wants to be here, and there always was a tiny bit of doubt in my mind about Mayo.
All this one of the bad parts of a MN team… there are just some guys who don’t want to play here.
What are your thoughts?
Rodman — I don’t think you can factor that in at all. You have to pick the best player. If he stays, great. If not, you’ve got the best possible trade chip (and you’ve got their rights for five years).
For all the talk before the draft about how Mayo only wanted to go certain places, he said nothing about going to Memphis and has been a good citizen since arriving.
Matty I’m not sure if it’s Jennings falling or if it’s other players moving up. This week will be huge for him. If he has an excellent showing at the Eurocamp and shows an improved jumper to go with his freakish athleticism and measures out well he could very well jump back up to the top 5 range.
I’ve really liked the idea of Jennings coming here and while there are others I’d take before him (Holiday/Evans), I’d be really happy to get a player of his caliber. He has serious superstar potential. But he also has bust potential; if he isn’t put in the correct situation he could be Sebastian Telfair.
Jennings isn’t going to work out at the Eurocamp, which most GM’s aren’t happy about, he is only doing individual visits back in the States.
jama - Thanks for the update. I actually just read that on DX and was pretty shocked. He really has a chance to standout with his athleticism so I think he’s making a mistake here.
The article also claims that the T’Wolves interest in Evans continues to grow. It sounds like his individual workouts could have more influence on teams since he is one of the few top prospects willing to work out against other top players.
Lastly, it sounds like Mullens looked pretty bad at yesterday’s workout in the Target Center. He apparently looks years away from contributing significant minutes as he struggled at times against Luke Nevill.
I think there are reasons to look at Evans, but not because he will work out against other top guys. A few years back, Julius Hodge wanted to work out against all the other 2’s. He’s not even in the league anymore.
I don’t know about Evans working out against other competition. He didn’t do that at the Combine and it sounds like he’s been assured he is a top 10 pick. He could go the Harden route and do only individual workouts for specific teams.
What does Julius Hodge have to do with anything?
jama, I just don’t think the fact that someone will do competitive workouts v. not means much. Hodge was an example of someone who wanted to work out against the top guys a few years back.
Matt - There are good reasons to look at Evans, and like I said, his workouts could have more influence. I never said that should be the reason to draft him so your Julius Hodge reference becomes irrelevant. I think it is easier to judge someone when they do group workouts in a 3-on-3 setting than when they do a shooting workout all alone. Harden seems to be against doing group workouts and DeRozan has declined to do workouts with Evans. If we bring Evans in and he stands out against players like Gerald Henderson/Terrence Williams/Holiday/Flynn, who are all lottery type players then it becomes easier to like him than if Harden works out with us and has a good individual workout.
jama - The way the combine was set up this year there was no group competition. Evans decided not to do individual workouts which I think was smart for him. He knows that he will impress more people by playing against others than he will just shooting jump shot after jump shot. Here is that DraftExpress blog entry about Evans and yesterdays group workout at the Target Center:
I think folks get a bit too worked up about who is going to work out for who. Teams aren’t going to pass on a guy because he didn’t work out at the combine or at Eurocamp. They are going to judge players on the totality of their records, and if Brandon Jennings (or anybody else) has a great individual workout, people will quickly forget where he didn’t participate. And no one is going to put Evans higher on their board because he’s willing to work out with other folks — his status on the board will be based on how he matches up to everyone else.
jballer_13, the workout comment was not directed at you personally, I just think it’s overreported in general.
Oh I agree that too much is read into workouts and GM comments since nobody is really saying what they think anyways.
The comments from DraftExpress on the Wolves interrest in Evans are a bit dispiriting. It’s not that I’m convinced he’s a bad pick, and he could be the best available when #6 rolls around. It is the comments,
“He can play with Randy Foye or without him, you can mix and match him with all kinds of guards, as long as you’re willing to put the ball in his hands. With that wingspan, he can even guard some small forwards. He gives you tremendous versatility in that regard.”
First off, never draft anyone based on their ability to play with Foye. Second, maybe with the talent defecits at multiple positions, getting someone with versatility seems ideal. However, it’s time to start building for the future. Get the SG or PG you want and move on, don’t sacrifice in your ideals for one position in order to get versatility. I think giving up an outside shot from your starting wing is what the Wolves are looking at. Third, I don’t like the “as long as you are willing to put the ball in his hands…” I don’t really want the ball in his hands. At least not as a general rule. I want the ball in the hands of a high IQ PG who is going to involve everyone in the offense by patiently waiting for the entry pass opportunity for Jefferson, by running the pick and roll with Love, and by finding a wing playing off the ball coming open for a jumper.
fiveanddime - I think Jennings would be a perfect fit for our offense. I know his 3-point shooting is awful but so was Tony Parker’s when he first came into the league. As long as he could develop a reliable mid range jumper coming off of ball screens this year, our offense would be dynamic. He would be a pick and roll nightmare working with Love and he is a true PG so he would know how to facilitate the offense and get Al involved. My big concerns with him aside from his jumper are his toughness and commitment to defense.
So Ford’s mock draft 3.0 has Harden and Holiday gone, with Hill slipping way out of the top 5, and the wolves grabbing Evans. He states “Evans is an interesting choice. He can play both guard positions and, combined with Randy Foye, could give the Wolves a pretty formidable backcourt. I think Flynn is a better prospect, but Evans is a better fit with what the Wolves are trying to do.”
So the lesson learned from last year is that Foye is not a PG. So, the thinking now is that we can get around that by pairing him with another non-PG. This apparently is what the Wolves “are trying to do”. Just great. Of course, this is just Ford’s take, but if he really does have his funger on the Wolves faint pulse, I am girding myself for disappointment. Now I’m going to dislike evans more than is called for because I will be mentally tying him into what I perceive to be a larger overall strategy of patching holes rather than rebuilding from scratch. If Ford’s other picks are correct, the Wolves gamble at 18 on Mullens, cementing their backcourt (minus the possibility of a trade, although I don’t see the assets that land us a starter).
Jay-I get you want a taller leaper who acts like his game is Nance. I just think it’s for the wrong reasons, remember we want a better TEAM (or I do). He belongs in Denver on that squad. They’re vibe is fine look at his “team mates”, where would they have gone this year without a leader like Billups? They were maybe a 7th or 8th seed. Than in comes a really team guy and they make a jump. If it weren’t that move than we wouldn’t have gotten to see D-bag block Lamar in the playoffs cause he definitely wasn’t the reason they got that bump. On being a bad guy, If you like to puff fine, but why get suspended over it. So many other cats get away with it just fine. It’s cuz he’s a tool who not thinking like a pro. We don’t need no stinking Birdman.
Oh and his 17 playoff games 12 this season don’t constitute experience say like Ollie 41 games does it?
Interesting thing about Evans is his game may fit well next to Foye from the start, while allowing him to grow his skill set (jumper/decision making). I do agree with the fact that defenses can sag on him in the league but Foye’s outside game is on the come up. Plus he offers legit size at the 2. I’m a little unsure on the whole PG/SG-tired of the slash.
Jennings is interesting, his first work out may make or break his lottery chances. Of course things could change but were coming down to the wire. Him dropping to 18 could get interesting. If we were to go Thabeet or 2 guard at 6.
Tired of always having lottery picks but I enjoy the process of the draft. Bummed we can’t get better coverage out of the workouts.
fiveanddime: I agree with most of your sentiments on Evans. The article did caution that most GM’s still think that Rubio and Harden are ahead of Evans on the draft board. Ultimately it will depend on who else is abilable, but Evans Length and Ahtleticism and Versatility wouldn’t make me as upset as picking OJ Mayo last year.
jballer, I have so little idea about Jennings that I don’t even consider him. He is essentially an abstract concept to me. I will essentially distrust anyone who is apparently not smart enough to either get into a college that wants him or at least come up with a way of cheating his way into Memphis. Actually, I guess an inability to pass the SAT did not hold back Rose’s ability to run an offense. At any rate, that defensive ability/commitment is huge. It’s the primary reason I wanted Holliday even if it meant taking him above his perceived value. It’s the reason I questioned Maynor even if he was a steal at 18. I think that with the WOlves commitment to Love and Jefferson, they can not afford defensive holes in the backcourt. If someone tells me that this entitity named Jennings plays D I’d be very happy.
5&10
Those comments that you posted about Evans weren’t made by the Wolves they were made by another teams GM, and how he thought Evans fit in with the Wolves.
Don’t assume that is what the Wolves FO is thinking since nobody seems to know what the *%$# is going on in the Wolves FO.
I think there is at least a 30% chance of Foye being traded this offseason so the Evans/Foye combination may not matter.
5&10
Where did you see Ford’s 3rd Mock Draft? Do you have a link, I don’t see it on ESPN’s website.
Jama,
I posted the links but am “awaiting moderation”. You can read the mocks by going to the NBA page of ESPN.com, then you’ll see the mock in the picture scroll on the main page there.
jama, There is no link to the mock off the draft page, but there is on the NBA home page of ESPN. Try:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=MockDraft-090602
And I understand that some of those comments came from other GMS. I was concerned about Ford’s take on “what the Wolves were trying to do” since I assume he has some info from the team (which may or may not be smoke), and because when he ranked the PGs yeesterday in the story that discussed who was getting interest from whom, he mentioned the Wolves interest in Evans and Teague only. Even if they con’t get some of the other guys I’d hope they were interested.
It’s hard to evaluate these players because it’s completely unclear what the Wolves are trying to do. What style of play are the Wolves trying to play? Nobody knows. Fit is a key element with these folks the Wolves are going to be selecting from, and we have no clue what sort of piece the Wolves are looking for.
Curry! Curry! Curry! We need a cold blooded shooter and Curry is the man. Get er done Kahn.
TEAGUE? Of all the point guards we could target, we go for Jeff Teague?
Chad Ford chat going on right now.
“Jack (New York, NY): Hey Chad, it sounds like Stephen Curry caught a lot of GMs’ attention at the combine. What’s the likelihood of a team drafting him or trading up for him before the Knicks at #8. Should we be worried about losing him to someone else, or will he still be there for us?
SportsNation Chad Ford: (1:25 PM ET ) I think his window starts at OKC at No. 3, the Wizards take a look at him at No. 5, Wolves at 6 and Warriors at 7. The most likely scenario is that he goes 8 to the Knicks. But yes, he was impressive and I just got the combine results and he looked good. He had an impressive 35.5 inch vertical and surprisingly benched the 185 pound bar 10 times. He’s stronger and more explosive than you think. “
In the chat, Ford puts the range for Jennings at number 4 to number 19. I would do back flips if we could get Harden, Evans or DeRozen at 6 and Jennings at 18.
Mullens sounds like a huge project and risk.
Depending on who they take at 6 I would hope the Wolves would make a deal if he slips past 10. We could put together a nice package with the remaining picks to move up from 18. I agree Matty, that would be a dream scenario but given that Jennings is a relative unknown there is a chance that if he doesn’t amaze people in his workouts he could slip that low.
Matty-I second that mentality.
My Wolves draft board would be:
1. Griffin
2. Rubio
3. Thabeet
4. Holliday
5. DeRozen
6. Curry
7. Evans
Harden scares me, as he put up a lot of points, but he also took a lot of shots. He also seemed to not show up against the better teams/bigger games.
If they go shooting guard at #6, I would like to see them grab Collison at #28. Then Mullins at #18 would be fine with me.
I think Curry will be a starter in the league for many years. Maybe not an all-star, and maybe not a starter right away, but would be a nice third option for a contender, especially if he can play the point.
It looks like Simmons, a guy who admits to not really watching college basketball, has single-handedly sunk Harden around here.
Fortunately the kid won’t be cursed to e on this team anyways. He’s a good player and a good guy, he deserves better
Harden = my preferred option for the Wolves
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