Anybody seen Ricky Rubio at El Meson?
Posted on June 28th, 2009 – 7:54 PMBy Jerry Zgoda
To address the little birdie and Charley Walters’ “report” that Ricky Rubio was in town — or due in town — yesterday to meet with David Kahn…
Honestly, I don’t know.
I’ve worked to confirm it, which unfortunately as a beat writer is a necessity, but haven’t been able to.
David Kahn promised “transparency” when he took the job but eventually said “Sorry, we have no comment” when I texted him numerous times to ask if has, or will soon meet, with Rubio and his father.
That he says no comment rather than deny it leads me to believe there’s something there, which isn’t surprising that the two sides would begin some kind of conversation face to face soon.
Rubio’s agent, Dan Fegan, has not returned repeated phone messages, except, I suspect, to hang up on me when he called from a posh New York City hotel this morning not knowing exactly whose call he was returning from his cell phone.
Well-placed people inside the Wolves say they don’t know whether Rubio slipped into town or whether Kahn will try to meet with him and/or Fegan when Kahn hits the road this week to begin his coaching search.
The New York Post reported Rubio, perhaps as early as Monday, is expected to receive offers to play for teams in Turkey and Madrid next season.
If he does sign elsewhere for big money, the Wolves still hold his rights. And unless he breaks his neck or struggles, he’ll just continue to gain value as the Wolves sit and wait.
Either team could pay considerably more to his buyout than the $500,000 that NBA rules allow the Wolves to pay.
So until it becomes clearer and the two sides become forthright, here’s some notes and thoughts on other subjects regarding the RRM (Ricky Rubio Matter) and word that’s coming in from sources around the league now that the draft is behind us:
* I can’t see Rubio and Jonny Flynn playing together because I don’t think Fegan will ever allow it.
He’s aiming for that big second contract to compensate for the buyout millions Rubio is going to have to pay his Spanish team and he won’t allow the chance that Flynn outplays his client and diminishes his value when that second contract comes around.
* Kahn fielded offers to Al Jefferson on draft day — including one from New Jersey that offered Devin Harris, Yi Jianlian and the No. 11 in some sort of package — but don’t think they were considered all the seriously.
*Kevin Love’s name didn’t come up much, if at all, in trade talks other Memphis trying to get him and the No. 5 or 6 for the No. 2.
* The Wolves did turn down that Knicks’ offer of No. 8 and Wilson Chandler for the No. 5, which Donnie Walsh would have used to take Rubio and not Stephen Curry.
*The Wolves took Henk Norel from the Netherlands with a second-round pick as much for the fact that he’s Rubio’s teammate at DKV Joventut and is a friendly face as they did for his potential.
*Kahn is expected to hit the road next week to start his coaching interview search rather than stay in Minneapolis and let coaches come to him.
It’ll be interesting to see how many coaches are scratching their heads over the Wolves’ draft and wondering if they want any part of this thing.
But it only takes one who doesn’t, and it sure looks like that guy will be Mark Jackson, with Bill Laimbeer — who I hear Kahn spoke with he was saying he didn’t have a coaching list and wasn’t going to have one until after the draft — likely as an assistant.
622 Responses to "Anybody seen Ricky Rubio at El Meson?"
I thought that was a Jonas brother, lol, could have been Rubio
So is that straight speculation on El Meson????
Thanks, Jerry. We appreciate someone who’s actually trying to report on this story, rather than echoing rumor stories to keep the 24 hour cycle going of its own momentum.
Kahn’s touring the country talking to coaches? Huh. I suppose that’s not too unusual…. I’m not convinced he’ll go in Mark Jackson’s direction at all, or that his talking to Laimbeer represents some kind of cheating on the “no list” idea for that matter. People are always, always talking to each other.
Jackson has no coaching experience at all. Someone with more of Terry Porter’s profile, with perhaps some lead assistant experience, would make more sense. (Of course I know both Porter and Sam Mitchell got their head roles with very little experience.)
Who’s going to be coaching our Summer League team? It starts on July 9th or something, doesn’t it? That’s usually your assistants. Do our assistants even have contracts and receive salaries right now?
Rubio is as good as gone. All I needed to know.
Dan Fegan is such a dusch
Thanks for putting in the work, Jerry. I guess getting hung up on is pretty much in a days work, huh?
So Jerry will Rubio ever wear a Wolves uni? If you’re speculating that he won’t play with Flynn which one gets dealt?
Also I like the Mark Jackson idea, and I dont think his lack of experience will be a big issue. We are not about to make a run for the playoffs or anything, why overpay for a coach? Jackson will be cheap, and who knows, we could hit the jackpot with this guy. Considering the way he led as a player on the court, I really wouldn’t be surprised.
Jerry, you’ve really got to let go of your peevishness at Kahn when you’re behind on a story or fail to get the scoop. Every time he doesn’t comment, you grouse about the “transparency” he had promised, as if he owes you and us full disclosure of everything, even if it would fracture delicate negotiations. Same goes with your reminders of how he had said he had no “list” of coaching candidates every time he ostensibly talks to someone who might be a candidate, as if that proves he’s disingenuous. What I’d like from you, Jerry, is harder work and less complaining.
And what I would like from you David if a take that is from your brain and not your ass.
David you’re a clown - go and chase the story yourself if it’s that easy.
Ah, Dan Fegan. He sure works hard to manipulate things. Wonder if Yi and Elton Brand are happy with where Fegan got them?
Nothing he says should change what Kahn does. Wait Rubio out. If that means he goes to Madrid, then let him. No matter where he plays next year, we have a guaranteed controlling interest in his future.
And really, if the issue is he’s afraid that Rubio will get outplayed by Flynn, then I’d suggest he tell Rubio to play well. Seems simple enough to me. He’s got 4 years to prove himself if he starts now, and even if he and Flynn play each other to a draw, that’ll be enough to draw a huge contract from somewhere. Look at Orlando and Rashard Lewis….there will always be teams willing to vastly overpay to guarantee a guy sings with them.
I think we want the Rubio matter to grow even bigger. I don’t see Rubio ever playing in a Wolves uniform and that’s OK by me.
Let’s not worry about Rubio playing for us, but what, ultimately, we can get for him. And creating a frenzy gets us more in the end.
I’m thinking a young, proven player and a #1 draft pick next year in exchange for him.
PS - I’ve still yet to see a highlight in which Rubio makes a jumpshot. All style no substance?
Interesting offer from the Nets, by the way. Had this draft had any quality big men or shooting guards past the #4 pick, I would have seriously considered that. Devin Harris is going to be a monster.
Mr. Zgoda,
You wrote “http://www.postbulletin.com/newsmanager/templates/localnews_story.asp?z=22&a=405710
In that you wrote
“”I didn’t speak with them, so I don’t have to come,” Rubio told Spanish media, referring to the fact that he didn’t work out or interview with the Wolves. “The NBA is attractive, but if you don’t want to be on a team at this time, well, you can wait. Right now, the work is that of the agent.”
Could you please direct me to the interview where Ricky said this? I have read over the transcripts from the two spanish interviews he did post-draft and that line never came up.
That’s why you are an idiot Bryan and Kahn is the GM. Think a little bit for once you fool.
I’m beginning to like the stay overseas for 1-2 years plan. Rubio can get a bigger chunk of his buyout covered, he can get bigger and hopefully better. Then he’ll come over once he realizes Khan isn’t balking at his agents demands or his stock starts falling.
This could work out really well for the Wolves. They could potentially have a 1-2 year competition between Rubio and Flynn and they only have to pay one of them until they make up their mind which is the guy.
Why would you care? Bigger role for your man crush Kevin Love, plus one of the fastest rising point guards in the league.
If the draft had the depth to push Evans and Thabeet down a couple more spots, we could have fielded a lineup up Harris, Evans, Brewer, Love and Thabeet. That looks pretty good to me.
Does Rubio speak english?
The “too cold” comment originally came from his Mom. Fegan (whom I do not have a high opinion of) is spouting off about Ricky not wanting to play in MN.
What does Ricky have to say for himself? He wants to play in the NBA for a team where he’ll get significant minutes. MN seems to fit that desire.
Let’s not make the 18 year old the villian in any of this. From what I’ve read, his dad had a hand in the crappy contract and buyout clause in his Spanish team contract. The team went bankrupt and/or owes the Spanish IRS millions, and instead of taking care of it themselves, they’re trying to force their star player (who does not get paid millions to play for them) to pay them to let him out of his contract. Finally there’s Fegan. How do agents like this keep getting clients? There are plenty of villians here, but the 18 year old isn’t one of them, IMO.
Kahn is trying to sound very diplomatic about it all, but this situation sucks.
Actually Ricky did say “too cold” in an interview before the draft, but he said it as a joke.
But yes, all of this stuff about where he plays and who he plays with and how much he;ll get paid…it’s all coming from his parents and Dan Fegan. Whenever Rubio talks for himself, all he really says is “I don’t care that I was drafted by Minnesota” and “I’ll play for anyone who can give me minutes”.
Does anyone know if endorsement contract money could be used to help with the buyout of his Spanish contract? It’s been mentioned in comments on this blog in the last week, and I can’t imagine there aren’t sponsors out there who’d love to have Rubio as an international spokesman.
Seems like it’d be a simple solution, so there must be some reason it wouldn’t work or be allowed.
As far as I know, players can use their endorsement money for whatever they want, as long as it doesn’t damage the company that endorses them.
On a completely different note:
Any guesses who the Wolves might look at in FA?
Opinions on bringing back Carney?
Jerry…I thought the Knicks offer was for #6, which I would have taken if I was Kahn, but not for #5 since chance existed of getting Rubio.
I’d like to bring back Carney for somewhere between $3-5 million/year. I think he’s exactly the kind of player we need to allow Rubio to flourish…he can run the floor, hit threes, and finish at the rim.
Other free agents….I don’t know. I really like Channing Frye, but that’s more of a personal preference than any glaring reason he’d fit well here. Birdman would be fantastic, but we could end up overpaying by a lot if the Nuggets make it a bidding war. I dunno….not many names stand out to me. It’s probably better to save that capital for summer 2010.
Gortat maybe, if the price is right, If I had to, I would go with Gortat over bringing back Carney even though I like Carney, Gortat had a good season in limited minutes so maybe he could play Center and Thomas could be an insurance policy in case Love, Jefferson, or Gortat get hurt
Ehhhh….I like Gortat, but again, is he really a good fit here. Not very athletic, not a very good defender…
If I were to roll the dice on a young center, I’d go with Ryan Hollins.
Ahem, he, umm, may very well be, umm, a suspect for crimes against Americans, ahem.
We need guards
or wings really.. I have always really liked Gerald Wallace. But Im guessing Charlotte likes him too
We need a Center and experienced SG to split minutes with Ellington
I don’t understand all the grief Kahn is taking over this draft. This draft was 7 deep at most and let’s not forgetthat despite his shooting prowess Curry is a PG too.
If we really wanted to swing for the fences in free agency this year….and I’m not suggesting we do this….but if we really wanted to, the guy to target would be Hedo Tukoglu. Long, athletic, skilled…can shoot, can rebound, can pass, can catch and shoot from the arc, can put the ball on the floor and make plays off the dribble. I think he’s too old for how our team is unfolding, but he’s the type of player we want to put between Rubio/Flynn and Jefferson.
TWolvesFaninLA: Nope, as I hear it, it was for 5, not 6. They were offering Wilson Chandler only if they could get Ricky, not Steph Curry.
Mr. Zgoda,
Can you please provide the interview where Ricky says “I didnt speak with them, so I don’t have to come” as you have cited in your article.
Jerry,
Is it true that Fegan can’t get any compensation if Rubio signs with another European team? I would think that would be a disincentive for him to keep Rubio from the Wolves. Also, isn’t it in Fegan’s self-interest to get Rubio to his second NBA contract as quickly as possible?
Jerry Zgoda at the nexus of the basketball universe. Next step, GM for some fledgling NBA team. He may have been gone during the Garnett era, but he will be the main attraction for the Rubio era.
That’s a fair amount of potential value for Al Jefferson. Maybe Harris benefits from the system. I wonder if Brook Lopez could get into the conversation. Love the trade gossip. Not surprised that no one is calling about Kevin Love. He still has a lot to prove.
I’m beginning to think we should just take Jordan Hill and Wilson Chandler from the Knicks just to get this over with. Rubio will probably sign a big contract overseas and then we have to imagine what might have been. Hill would give us an athletic big off the bench in a deep rotation. Chandler could probably start.
According to the NY Daily News, the Rockets offered Battier and Aaron Brooks. That sounds even better than what the Knicks can offer.
If it was for the #5 pick, then it was with very good reason Kahn turned them down.
Hopefully that stops people for constantly complaining we didn’t pick up Wilson Chandler.
We can get a lot more than Jordan Hill by trading Rubio.
Wow Fegan really hosed this one up. Pisses off Griz, Thunder, and Kings enough that his boy drops to 5th. Smooth move. Maybe he should have had him do head to head workouts and not dodge competition. It never works when you pull that card.
I have a friend who works for the team and he said Rubio was definitely here yesterday to see Kahn. No word though on what the result was…he said they’re being pretty tight lipped about it.
He was here for sure though.
Jerry, I’m having some difficulty with your journalism code of ethics. Specifically, it would be useful, Jerry, for you to identify what you know as fact versus what you are speculating. For example, you mention the need to verify whether or not Rumple Rubles was in town (good) but you appear to speculate as to the status of Mark Jackson and Bill “elbows’ Laimbeer without stating such (bad). And, with respect to the aforementioned Dan Fegan has a stumbling block in having Jonny Flynn in the picture, is that fact or speculation?
Couple of thoughts…
- Our immediate goal should be to play the kids and even if we have a bad year, use our high pick (that top 10 protected from going to the Clips), as well the other picks to stock up next draft. Then make our play next off season.
- There is no way we should settle for any deal for Rubio.
- I do actually feel bad for the kid because he’s getting awful advice. If he spends the next year or two in Europe, then Johnny Flynn is really going to be schooling him by then.
- Maybe some unspoken truth is that he really isn’t ready for prime time yet. Maybe he would just look horrible at this point. He needs some beef and a better shot, before he’s ready.
- For all of Rubio’s hightlights, notice that the defenders look like they are moving in slow motion. Those guys over there are not athletic at all.
- One things for sure though, I do want to see him play for the Wolves. It would be a good time.
I don’t like the Rockets offer, Battier is 30 and Aaron Brooks alongside Flynn would be a very small Backcourt. As for the Nets offer, Harris is very good but Yi sucks. Jefferson is too good to trade as long as his knee heals up. He has dropped some weight and that should help his stamina and maybe his defensive game.
You gotta love Sid Hartman-
On the Channel 23 Sports Show tonight, he calls Memphis, OKC and Sacto “idiots” for not taking Rubio…
…then he calls Kahn and the Wolves “idiots” for taking Rubio.
SID!!!
What does he do for them without giving him up?
Also, irrespective of Fegan’s issues, the Wolves still own the NBA rights to Rumple Rubles, no?
“I’m beginning to think we should just take Jordan Hill and Wilson Chandler from the Knicks just to get this over with.”
Huh? You don’t have much of a stomach for negotiating if you’re already prepared to cut bait in less than a week.
Fair point McFly (about Johnny Flynn).
Totally agree Steven.
What code of ethics?
Yes, they own his rights as long as he plays professionally elsewhere. He’d have to sit out an entire season before he goes back into the draft.
Didn’t Fegan present some issues to the Bucks when negotiating over Yi Jianlian too? Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead! No trade, no deals, no how.
I think Kahn is being smart keeping this behind closed doors as much as possible. Unless Rubio outright signs this instant, no matter what happens, it’s just going to kick up more media firestorms. Just the rumor that he MIGHT have been in the other day has made national news.
The less Kahn makes public, the less networks like ESPN have to dissect and “interpret”, and the less pressure on Rubio to make something happen.
As for Fegan, we are his worst case scenario with Rubio. We picked his client #5, we’re not an ideal market (not that Rubio seems to care), and we subsequently took a point guard that might not only hurt his client’s value, but gives us the leverage to wait out this “return to Spain” threat.
I’ll admit, after what Fegan did to Elton Brand and the Clippers last year, I find it rather satisfying to see Kahn paint the guy into a corner like this.
Jerry, it would be helpful for you to separate your facts for speculation. Would you mind? Would that be too much to ask?
…from speculation.
Like I said on another post, Rubio also talked a lot about California. Golden State has some pieces starting with Biedrins to solidify our front line. With Curry, Nash, and Stoudamire in the mix, there could be a massive four-team deal.
But I think we are going to get Rubio and start a new era of Minnesota basketball. If you think our economy’s bad…..there’s no way this kid is staying in Europe. Kahn just needs to wait out the news cycle, turn down a few offers from New York and other suitors, and Rubio will be here to play some ball. We have the cards here.
Keep Carney so at least there is someone to throw alley-oops to.
That Houston trade offer is terrible. If that’s the kind of garbage other teams are throwing around, unplug the phone.
Andris Biedrins, Belinelli, and Curry or Stephen Jackson should be the floor if we are going to trade — but I don’t think we should.
Does anybody know the protection after next year (top 12) for the Charlotte first rounder we got in the Ty Lawson trade to Denver? Fred Hoiberg said on KFAN that the protection goes down after next year but he didn’t say how far and how fast. With how bad Charlotte might be in a year or 2, that could be a top 10 pick for us in a better draft. If that happened, we could be adding a 20 year old Rubio plus another high draft pick in 2011.
First of all, Fegan, while he might be orchestrating everything that happens from Rubio’s camp, has not said one public word as far as I know.
Second, it’s 4 days since the draft. 4 days. It’s incredible to me that so many people take everything they hear at face value. We have no idea what’s going on with these negotiations, or what the reasons for Rubio’s various public comments are, or the biases of the Spanish media, or what the buyout situation is. Apparently, neither does our beat writer, but I hope he keeps working on it!
These categorical statements that “we’ll never see Rubio in a Wolves uniform” or (from Jerry) “I can’t see Rubio and Jonny Flynn playing together because I don’t think Fegan will ever allow it” strike me as absurd at this point.
It’s 4 days.
Further, though I appreciate Jerry’s work, his entire 2 paragraphs starting with the quote above are complete speculation. I’m not complaining about that, I’m happy to read Jerry’s speculations, but let’s be clear about that.
That Rockets deal is silly. The Wolves don’t need parts. They need a star.
Marty-
It’s pretty clear what is fact and what is speculation is this blog. He prefaces his personal speculation with “I think”. Duh.
Actually I take it back about saying McFly had a fair point about Fegan not wanting Rubio to play with Johnny Flynn. Jerry said, “I think…” That’s clearly speculation.
My bad Jerry.
The Bobcats’ pick protection is: top 12 protected in 2010, top 10 protected in 2011, top 8 protected in 2012, top 3 protected in 2013, and unprotected in the 2014 NBA Draft.
BRian, the pick is top 12 protected next year, then top 10, top 8, top 3, unprotected.
I’m not that high on Curry, the guy is so thin and i think he is going to really struggle defensively and getting his shot off. He’s not that explosive and has little lateral quickness. Ellington was a great pick at 28, he really stepped up when Lawson went down.
Beaten to it by Jerry.
I agree Brian. The more I think about it Flynn was the best guy on the board. We needed some defensive toughness and not just a shooter to go with Rubio.
It’s a futile attempt. Jerry made several statements without the caveat of “I think.” I’m merely requesting a clear distinction of fact for speculation. If that’s too much to ask, so be it. I’ll just continue to apply a heavy filter.
McFly: You’re lame.
for speculation …to…from speculation.
HeyCoach…my azz your face
Name one comment Jerry made in this blog post that’s speculation that DOESN’T include something like “I think” or “it appears” or “it would seem”.
I think you just need to improve your reading skills. Sometimes you have to figure things out for yourself.
Although now that I think about it, we’ve been over your inability to solve basic puzzles before, haven’t we?
Any trade offer reported in a New York daily should be taken for what it is, tabloid garbage.
Marty,
This is a blog. Get over it.
Oh, and where did you get your journalism degree from?
I love the Flynn pick, the team does need a floor leader and the guys that take the court now are pretty laid back. I wonder if the Bobcats would be willing to part with Gerald Wallace? He would fit nicely as the SF on this team. His injury history scares me a bit but i think its worth the risk.
Bryan, I’m not sure if you are Jerry’s mini me but but out. I’ll squeeze your head if I want some fetal matter.
“No comment” means
“He’s not here, he will not be here and we wasted a pick at #5″
If this guy gets to walk or we trade him for crap, Khan needs to be strung up by his balls for fooling everyone into thinking he was different than McHale….
Brian, Gerald Wallace trade? MJ and the cats love GW…Another brain fart?
I don’t post here much, so I’m not familiar with posters. Is Captain_Obvious reliable or just tossing out crap?
Also, with the amount of attention this story has generated, if they managed to sneak Rubio into town and meet with him, and the only reporter that caught wind of it is Charley Walters…I’ll be amazed.
Rob, I agree. But Kahn is not going to trade or deal Rubio IMO, he’s too far out on a limb right now with the “transformational” comments. I noticed Kahn’s letter yesterday tried to dial it back a bit, however.
saudagg, there is a vast number of sleepy toothless watch dog journalists in town on Saturdays.
Marty-He has been in trade rumors the last two years, but because of his injuries teams have stayed away. No brain fart here, thats your cloud.
Nice Marty, you’ve mastered the art of avoiding being cornered by using elementary school insults. Too bad you aren’t nearly as clever as you think you are.
Until you answer the question, your complaints about this blog have no credibility.
As for GForce, he’s already had three concussions. I think, given his contract, that’s too much of a gamble.
Jerry: please answer the final paragraph i wrote reguarding rubio.
honestly i really like what kahn has done with the team . trading foye. and as far as miller i was getting sick of wondering when he was gonna get into a groove. from what i can see is that some people still don’t have Love in our starting lineup. Why not? he is one of the hardest workers i have ever seen, as far as him getting rebounds.
what happends to telfair through all of this? …… if i’m not mistaken he was just given a contract extension last year.
so it seems that rubio will be in spain for two years. i understand that. but when does his contract with the wolves start ? i have been wondering this for a very long time, so if jerry could answer this it would be greatly appreciated.
If you had any knowledge of the Cats, you would know that GW is MJ’s favorite player. You would also know that MJ is leading a group to take over ownership of the cats…more brain farts, indeed.
Telfair’s contract expires next summer, or the summer after that. He’ll probably stay on as part of this experiment, and then his future with the team will be evaluated when his contract is up based on the reults.
Tyler –
Rubio’s contract will not start until he officially joins an NBA team. That’s why he could play in Europe for two years and then come over when he’s twenty… and that’s when his contract with the wolves would start.
Bryan, don’t be such a moron. When I made a request of Jerry I don’t need your unsolicited comments. Jerry, last I checked, is a fully capable adult. To entertain your moronic question would only be enabling a minor.
Tyler, his contract with the Wolves starts when he comes here to play. He isn’t under contract now, but the Wolves hold his exclusive rights in the NBA. Those rights do not expire, unless he spends a year not being paid to play basketball anywhere in the world.
The rookie contract that will begin when he comes over is 2 guaranteed years, 2 years worth of team options, and a 5th year in which the Wolves can make him a restricted free agent, meaning they can match any offer he gets, or he can play for that 5th year for a preset amount.
Marty, there also are sleepy, toothless, watch dog journalists who need to take a day — not to mention eight weeks of delayed vacation and comp time — off once in a while. The 24/7 news cycle unfortunately does not stop for any one man (or woman, of course)
And don’t call me a fully capable adult. Is that fact or speculation?
I don’t know much about the Cats. I do know Jordan is not a good GM and he has a history of making suspect moves. I thought his favorite player was Kwame Brown or Tyron Lue.
I don’t think it would be good to have Mark Jackson as coach. He will probably call player huddles saying, “Momma there goes that man.” over and over and over.
My speculation: Keeping Kahn’s discussions with Rubio and Fegan quiet help Rubio with his buyout negotiations.
If the DVK club hears about multiple meetings/discussions that Rubio is having with the Twolves. They will have more leverage and not lower the buyout amount. But is they continue to think that Rubio’s chance of playing in the NBA next year are slim they may lower the buyout amount to help other Euro teams or Rubio pay for it.
In the end, if Rubio has open Discussions with Kahn, Real Madrid…whoever, DVK will look and say we should be able to get more money from this situation.
Purely speculation on my part, Jerry. I could envision Fegan’s face on the other end of the line….
You’re the one making accusations without backing them up Marty. All talk, no substance.
Also, to the comment that Fegan hasn’t said anything….trust me, you’re not missing much. Nothing he says publicly can be trusted anyway.
Jerry and bloggers, what do you think about this conspiracy: RR and David Kahn are playing up the “he can stay in Spain 1-2 more years” card just to help RR’s negotiation with his Spanish club. It sounds like they need the $$$ and were probably counting on him to buy out his contract. They’re probably afraid he actually will return. If it is plausible he returns, then perhaps they’ll negotiate a different amount–say $4mill..
just a thought….
kahn … so far, so good … you made the right picks after evans was gone … we hold the chips and nothing should come for cheap … evans/flynn or evans/rubio would have been great …
Jerry, nothing personal regarding the sleepy toothless watchdogs. After the draft coverage, you deserved some time away.
On a completely speculative note from me, it seems to me an excellent development that Rubio was (or is) here, regardless of how tight lipped Kahn is. It seems to me that if his real position is that he’ll never play for the Wolves, then he wouldn’t have come. That’s what agents are for. If you want nothing to do with Minny, you don’t talk to Minny. You have your agent do that.
Ultimately, East Coast Twinsfan might be right that this is all directed at Joventut. That’s real speculation.
Heres a name Samuel Dalembert, i know the 76ers have him on the block. The question is whay would it take to get him. He would bring an immediate defensive presence at the rim and he’s a very good rebounder. He makes alot of money but the Wolves might need to pony up some cash to fill that spot.
Hmm, interesting thought John. Never thought about Kahn trying to force DKV’s hand…
Saw the poster today with Rubio peeling off his suit as “teen wolf.” nice.
Dalembert’s extremely expensive though, and given how poorly he played alongside Brand, you kind of half to wonder if he can operate at all in the halfcourt…
I kind of like Avery Johnson as a potential coach, but i think Kahn said he wants a young coach to go with a young team, i’m not shure i like that idea.
I honestly don’t like Avery as a coach here. He never let Devin Harris get out in the open floor and play to his strengths, and I’m concerned he won’t let Rubio or Flynn either.
Kshn could have learned something from Mchale and last years draft. Even though Mchale really wanted Love over Mayo he took Mayo knowing that he could get more for him. In the end he got his man plus Mike Miller. I think if we had drafted Curry, NY would have given us Wilson Chandler and the #8 which would have given us Flynn anyway.
I’m not too concerned about Dalembert getting touches on the offensive end, unless he is a pouter and would become a distraction. Thats the drawback of paying somebody that much money to just play defense, its just the defensive possibilities with the guy would be nice. Can Chris Anderson play center or is he a PF?
I think i heard Johnson was really tough on rookies.
There’s no guarantee that the Wolves would have gotten Flynn at number 8 just as there was no guarantee that Rubio was going to fall to them at 5.
Let’s please stop criticizing that non trade. For all we know the Knicks would have taken Flynn who is from NY. . .
The Knicks wanted — want — Rubio more than Curry. I think (speculation, not fact) from what sources tell me they would have given Chandler up for the fifth pick but not the sixth.
Golden state would probably have taken Flynn at 7 if Curry was gone.
Brian, I agree on Avery. Didn’t he and Kidd have the same problems as Harris? Where Avery wanted to call all the plays on the floor?
Jerry, NY’ers are in a sour state right now regarding Rubio. Of course, that seems to be a nature state for Knicks fans as evidenced by the draft and the booing of Hill. Some NY Post writers conveyed a belief that Walsh calling Kahn would compel the Wolves to deal Rubio.
Brian: no the wolves don’t need to pony up some cash to fill that spot. They simply need to play the kids-Flynn, Ellington and Rubio-if he comes..that young back court will ensure another lottery pick this year. We’ll be able to get a big man in next years draft and for much cheaper than Dalembert.
I still think Avery Johnson would be a good coach for us, defensive minded and especially since we have Flynn and Rubio..he can teach them quite a bit. Wouldn’t mind Porter either. Laimbeer? well, ok, but would prefer Thibodeau.
I miss the days of mean, nasty big men. You know the way Clem had them playing. Those guys were mean, they’d rip your head off and then point you to the free throw line.
I think Chris Anderson would be a good fit, and he won’t get 10mil a year. He would run with the young guys and bring a ton of energy to the team, not to mention help sell some tickets. They would have to offer more than the Nuggets can match though.
I just saw Dalembert makes almost 12mil a year, too much money.
It wouldn’t too hard to put Birdman out of Denver’s reach. They’re over the cap already, so anything they pay Chris they’d have to double effectively. And they’re also under owner mandate to cut payroll.
I say that we trade for Tyson Chandler or Greg Oden, what do we really have to lose? By making a move towards these guys can only make us better.
One piece of good news is that Rubio’s visit to Minny hasn’t been reported by the Spanish media.
Yeah, thats actually good news. You see, they only report news that have something to do with him either getting transferred OR going back to Spain. Rubio visiting Minny was posted as a rumor in ESPN, so I’m sure they got a hold of it, but why not run it? Because the purpose of the meeting had to be for Rubio to stay here, and since Spanish papers dont want anybody getting that idea, they ignored it.
[…] writer, Jerry Zgoda uncovered trade offers made to the Minnesota Timberwolves on or around draft day. They apparently got an offer from New Jersey, with the Nets offering […]
All that Denver can offer is their mid-level exception. So we would have to offer around 6mil for him.
Birdman averaged 2 blks a game in 20min/game. He is 30 and that might be too old for what Kahns doing. if you could get him for 3-4 mil a year i would pull the trigger.
Birdman? Ugh. People fixate on him because he’s a “high energy guy” that gets a lot of blocks, what they miss is all the easy opportunities and and 1s he creates by selling out for the block all the time.
The MLE will buy him plenty of eight balls I guess.
2 things, 1….Kahn screwed up the draft. We could have picked up players to fill spots 1-4, and those would have been some good players, but instead he drafts 4 guards. Then probably trades the best PG away in Ty Lawson. Ellington, should be good. Though we could have had Johnny Flynn & Stephen Curry….that would have been fun!
And 2, he is going to meet with coaches because no one wants to come to him! What a dork! If Mark Jackson is the best coach out there, I’d rather have McHale back!! Atleast he had some experience and the players really liked him!! Get someone in here with experience, and has some knowledge of rebuilding a program!!
If you want to get some sort of TV announcer in here, get Jeff Van Gundy!
Drafting for need when you’re as far away from competing as the Wolves are would be a waste of resources, Josh. It’s something you can do when you’re a team that’s on the cusp, but in a shallow draft Kahn attacked the one position of depth to acquire usable assets.
Lawson should be a solid player, but every GM in the NBA rated him much lower than Rubio or Flynn. You’d be hard pressed to find an NBA executive that would have drafted Lawson above those two. If there was he would have gone much higher.
And while Jackson doesn’t thrill me as a coach, that ship hasn’t sailed yet. We don’t know what choice will be made. What I do know is that McHale doesn’t have any knowledge of rebuilding a program considering he never did any rebuilding in his time here.
Can we stop with the “Wolves traded away Ty Lawson” junk? The Wolves picked Ty Lawson for Denver. They didn’t pick him with the intent of keeping him and then Denver called 30 seconds later. Few teams thought Lawson would be available at 18, most likely including the Wolves, so it’s not like they could have skipped picking a PG at 5 or 6 and thought, “Oh, we’ll just draft Lawson at 18 instead.” They had their PG(s), so Lawson was not an option by the time that pick rolled around. Much like Chalmers last year. The Wolves did not pick Chalmers for themselves. For that matter, they never would have picked Brandon Roy for themselves, either - they liked Rudy Gay much better, according to most reports. Of course, that would have been a better pick than Foye, but … Same goes for Ray Allen. They liked Kerry Kittles in ‘96 if they couldn’t have traded for Marbury. Thank goodness they didn’t go that way, despite the Marbury outcome. In other words, question the fact that they had Roy ranked behind both those guys or Allen behind two guys, but don’t go with the “We HAD him!” comments. Thank you for your time.
Dear Mr. McFly,
You have mental problems.
Sincerely,
Everyone on earth.
Josh … Forget about McHale. You state, “at least he (McHale) had some experience and the players really liked him”. He had absolutely no management experience other than the (14) years that he learned “on the fly” with the Timberwolves. Please tell me who mentored him. He was entirely “self-taught” and it really showed. Insofar as the players “really liking him” … perhaps that was part of the problem. We need a true leader who is respected … not simply liked by the players. With each passing day, my confidence in David Khan is growing by leaps and bounds. This guy knows how to quietly play chess while everyone around him is screaming.
I say we just draft an athletic Center next year with one of our picks and go with Al, Love, Smith and Thomas as our rotation this year at the 4 and 5. If we could get Gortat for cheap that would be fine with me too otherwise stand pat and draft a center next year or if Rubio doesn’t want to play with us next year then trade him for a really good young center or a top pick to get a center
Kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahn!!!!!!!
agree DLF.
he doesn’t know enough about the knicks if he wants to play on that team, they’re just not a good organization. they have cap space and can afford to sign him, though in any event there isn’t a good reason to force the issue now. i wouldn’t trade him at all, but if they must every team in the nba should want him, and almost all of them have more to offer than the knicks.
Hire Jackson. ANYthing to get him off the ESPN broadcast crew.
i don’t understand the statement “Fegan would never allow him to play w/ Flynn” it’s not like they are similar players or have similar styles.
Is Fegan trying to say that there wouldn’t me an issue if the Wolves would have drafted Hill or Curry or Derozen? what did he expect to happen? He shouldn’t hold his client hostage for the simple reason the Wolves took the two best players available. to me thats ridiculous and he should be even more willing to get his client to Minny to prove that Flynn is now expendable. the only thing Fegan is delaying is his clients 2nd contract and he’s keeping money out of his own pocket as well.
Hey Dan Fegan, by not signing soon w/ the wolves you are only putting yourself in a worse situation. if your client signs w/ Turkey or Real Madrid…you don’t get any of that money…just saying.
with all the stuff leaking about the Knicks contacting or talking to Rubio’s family back in February they really set unrealistic promises/expectations to Rubio. and by them not making a move up in the draft they have place the wolves in this situation.
the Knicks don’t have any assets the Wolves covet and their only bargaining chips are UFA’s that they say they plan on signing…but what if they don’t?
I apologize to you Marty. I have been a big jerk lately. I think I have the male equivalent of pms.
Josh S- Good call on Mark Jackson. I’ve heard nothing but horror stories about the guy. His announcing abilities are OK, but not good in the locker room. I have a feeling that Kahn might try something crazy like getting Mike Fratello in here. Rumor has it that they are friends. Fratello is terrible at developing young talent, but I don’t think Kahn is savvy enough to realize that. Kahn is messing up this team, big time. Al Jefferson will be begging to get out of here shortly, you watch.
Exactly, there is a reason why Kahn has been out of the NBA for 7 years. What team did Kahn play for?
What exactly is your guys problem with Kahn? So you morons think he should passed on Rubio? Why dont you failures go run back to the vikings and twins blogs so you can keep washing Delmon Youngs jock. And seenenough, I have seen enough of your stupidity.
Go Tom D! Washing Delmon Young’s jock. . .
It does get old seeing uninformed comments from people who would complain no matter what happened. It’s a tradition among most Vikings fans around here.
Kahn is doing a fabulous job.
One does wonder about the thought process that went into hiring Fegan.
Was it the fact that, after Yi Jinlian disappeared in his rookie year in Milwaukee, Fegan might have had some influence in engineering the New Jersey trade for Richard Jefferson? (That seemed more like a salary dump from the Nets and a mistaken belief that the Bucks were going to contend.) Fegan also escorted Brand to Philly this last year…. where his fit was terrible by all accounts. If you’re looking to an agent to help you find the right situation, this is a guy who’s put recent high-profile talents into spots that turned to ashes in their mouths in short order.
The initial take has to be that Fegan presented himself as a real shark, willing to fight for Rubio, after the exorbitant buyout terms of Rubio’s first contract. Um, and Ricky Rubio’s parents were the ones who inked him to his current indentured slavery at the age of 14. He’s following their advice? Again? Because mom wants a direct flight to New York to shop in the balmy winter there?
The 24/7 coverage of this thing really does seem, from the outside, to have the effect of forcing resolutions. Not every problem is best solved in 24 hours, however….
i think there is always a lot of skepticism when it comes to the Wolves and through no fault of his own Kahn is going to have to deal w/ that type of fan. i don’t think anyone would ever say that they didn’t want Kahn to draft Ricky, because then he would’ve been known as the guy that passed on Ricky Rubio…TWICE!! the only downfall to the situations and me, personally, don’t think its a downfall at all, was his infatuation w/ Johnny Flynn and drafting a guy that just so happens to play the same “position” as Rubio. I really don’t see Flynn taking minutes away from Rubio and I don’t see Rubio and Flynn failing in Minny. it’s a great problem having the rights to both these guys. and how Kahn handles it, and he’s done a good job so far IMO, is how people are going to judge him as a GM. having these guys is always going to draw interest. this is no different a situation than the Thunder had this year when they draft Russell Westbrook and they already had a quality guy in Earl Watson… it just so happens that Kahn got both guys in the same draft.
Just wondering. Kahn is supposedly pretty good friends with David Stern. Do you think we get to a point where if Fegan does dig in his heels that Kahn calls on Stern to put pressure on Fegan. Something along the lines of… if you keep doing this I will make your life a living hell.
C-Note,
I agree with your thoughts on the frontcourt players. Course we can’t assume that Thomas or Songalia will necessarily stay put, but we shouldn’t be trading for and locking in contracts on bigs when next year’s draft will have some nice choices available. As for Rubio and this year’s draft, I like the gamble and think we need to give it some time to see if we got lucky!
mark, i’m not really sure how stern would be able to do that. are there any lawyers that frequent this blog that might be able to answer that? seriously though, I’ve never heard of a situation where DStern has contacted an agent with those kind of intentions. and the basic principal behind the whole thing now is that Rubio still isn’t in the NBA, his draft rights are owned by the wolves but until he signs a contract he’s not in the NBA. and Rubio could very well continue to play in Europe and keep playing in Europe but as soon as he decides he’s ready to come play in the NBA his draft rights are still owned by the Wolves and he can’t play for another team until the Wolves trade those rights. there is no freeing Rubio of that. He could play in Europe for 10yrs and his rights are still that of the TWolves
I only think of things like when Jeff Van Gundy questioned the officials during the season and hinting that maybe the league didn’t want his team to win, stern threatened to suspend him indefinitely.
Also With Yi. Fegan again said Yi will never play for the Bucks and he won’t show up if you draft him and you better trade him and then all of a sudden Yi showed up. I’ve just gotta feel that Stern asked him not-too-nicely to stop making a mockery of the league.
last year Dan Fegan’s clients made 113.9M$$ some notable clients include Marion, Jianlian, Joe Smith, KHumphries, JRichardson, Nene, Jason Terry to name a few. My guess is that the guy isn’t hurting for money…
I’m sure there are lots of things that the NBA does that are kind of unspoken rules.
Not saying that it always happens but Stern pretty much rules the NBA with an Iron Fist. I’m guessing that if Stern watned Rubio in Minnesota… Rubio would end up in Minnesota.
this is a great read…now considering everything that happened and just how much Fegan failed Rubio and cost him Millions of dollars…way to go Fegan…wouldn’t be surprized if Rubio fires you very quickly…
http://3sob.com/archives/14-june-2009/516-guest-blog-dan-fegans-options
Fegan will drive trade market from here on…. No team will contact Wolves without first checking with Fegan. Rubio will not play in Mpls if remains his agent. He’s done this to more than one team.Miller and Foye for a guy who may never play on team????? Orlando drafted a Euro top ten and he’s never played a minute in league.
Fegan will drive trade market from here on…. No team will contact Wolves without first checking with Fegan. Rubio will not play in Mpls if remains his agent. He’s done this to more than one team.Miller and Foye for a guy who may never play on team????? Orlando drafted a Euro top ten and he’s never played a minute in league.
JERRY:
what do you think wayne ellington’s role will be with the wolves? starter over brewer or sixth man?
i personally am a big north carolina fan and watching ellington it seemed whenever we needed a big play ellington would make it and yet he was the 28th pick in the draft.i think we should start him and he would be a good fit with us. i don’t know alot about his personality , but nothing has ever been reported and hopefully his future with the team doesn’t resemble that of Rahsad Mccants.
One last thing … i am so sick of this bull crap of people saying Love isn’t gonna start, trade him, have him be a sixth man…… this bull crap and it’s pissing me off..
on thing about Love that stood out to me the most is that against a very lengthy team like the Lakers he was not intimidated by how much taller they were than him. YOU CAN’T TEACH THAT. i think he needs to start every game
Does anybody have a idea of what the summer league team will look like?
Jerry -
Just read a post over at Canis Hoopus citing a paper in Spain that says that Ricky’s camp is meeting with his team today. Have you heard anything about this?
Is there a chance that this buyout gets done faster than we thought?
seenenough
It might be true that Fegan would like to guide Ricky to another team. However, the past has proven that he hasn’t been all that effective at placing his foreign players where they want to go.
The fact of the matter is that he can demand a trade all he wants but the Wolves control Rubio’s NBA future. If they want him to be there all they have to do is say “No”. Then Fegan is faced with the prospect of not getting paid. Not something he wants.
Plus than he’s responsible for Rubio not getting a chance in the NBA. Fegan can huff and puff all he wants but when it comes down to it if Kahn sticks to his guns Fegan will have no choice but to get Ricky to Minneapolis.
Trade Rubio for the best offer….I don’t want to wait years before the team is good…they aren’t that far from being half way decent…
Hey Rubio, there are thousands of other NCAA players that would love to take your place. Back in the day, and even now, we’d call this an OPPORTUNITY! In this case, handed to you on a silver platter. Now add it to your silver spoon and make the best of it!
Fegan had to suck it up w/ Jianlian playing one year in Milwaukee. he didn’t get his way w/ cleveland in getting Varjiao(sp) a big contract extention. Marion is going to be a free agent and doesn’t appear that he’ll get a huge pay day…seems to me like lots of NBA GM’s are tired of Fegan’s antics and aren’t giving into him. it’ll be interesting to see how this thing plays out but I might be tempted to put some money on Rubio having a new agent by the time his contract is up and needs to re-negotiate or simply…just sign w/ the Wolves initially…I think Fegan has grossly underestimated the NBA this year, with this client
If Rubio doesn’t want to be here, the fastest way for him to get somewhere else in the NBA is still to sign here and play the best that you can to increase the trade market in the interim and start the clock on your future free agency.
well said sean. but his agent is an idiot. and his parents have their hands deep in his pockets.
it would be interesting to find out if Fegan even took the time to look into all the different marketing opportunities that he would have w/ Rubio in Minnesota. KG did a lot in Minney, other athletes have done a lot. but w/ that there would be Nat’l opportunities as well. Nike, Coke, McDonalds…the kid can make some money regardless of his location in Minnesota. and Rubio would sell thousands of thousands of Jersey’s…that wouldn’t matter who he played for. its not like jersey sales are regional…
I have asked in three different posts if there are any shot blocking,rebounding #5’s out there and how many #5’s not named Aldrich will be available in next year’s draft? Do any of you cats every share information or just rip each other’s opinions?
Obviously everything rides on the buyout. There won’t be any kind of serious trade talk until this buyout gets resolved.
If the buyout is taken care of Fegan might say… ok now that the buyout is done Ricky doesn’t want to play in Minnesota so you better trade him. It is true that more teams would be willing to trade for him at that point but Kahn can simply say ‘no’. At that point Fegan has to tell Ricky that if he wants to play in the NBA it’s gotta be for the wolves.
If the NBA has been Ricky’s dream he’s probably not gonna be too keen on saying “oh ok, I’ll just play in Spain for a few more years”. I’m guessing that’s not how it works with 18 year olds who normally get what they want.
My bet is on Ricky playing with the wolves… as long as the buyout gets taken care of.
Geno –
Greg Monroe from Georgetown is an excellent shot blocker and very athletic. Would fit well with the team that we’re building.
just rip on each other.
Marcus Camby is an UFA. that is the only “shotblocker” that is available. he probably isn’t the guy the wolves are looking for.
as for next years draft. I don’t have a name for you.
any gopher fans on here think that Ralph Sampson III declares next year or that he’d have to have a Big Ten All First Team type of season to make him declare??
sorry, All Big Ten First Team…the cpu I’m on jumbles words some times.
No we just rip on idiots like you Geno.
WOW –
Sampson could potentially declare if he has a great season. But the fact that there are so many good PF’s and Center’s potentially in the draft next year my guess is that he stays.
Again if he really develops all facets of his game he could go… but my guess is he stays until after his junior year.
sportsjunkie says:
June 29th, 2009 at 9:12 am
Trade Rubio for the best offer….I don’t want to wait years before the team is good…they aren’t that far from being half way decent…
sportsjunkie gets my vote for most delusional post of the day. They aren’t that far from being half way decent? It will take two to three years for them to be contenders–minimum.
You better get used to waiting.
i can see that happening. Think Tubby might have him declare and go through the pre draft stuff like he’s done before w/ younger guys?
Summing up some of the good points made here; I would say continue to support RR because he’s a young, naive kid whose being mislead by a self-serving agent and overly protective, but well-meaning parents. I think Kahn has done a great job so far in reconstructing this team. He is smart and shrewd as a businessman and lawyer w/ some years in the NBA so he knows his way around. I’m glad he’s not cavong to Fegen, and apparently he knows how the guys thinks from YI experience. Best bet would be to get RR and his parents in to have “fatherly talk” about how RR won’t br pressured but rather supported and cared for in Minny. Show him and parents the quality of life in the area where people care about one another and where they live. I think Kahn is on the right track w/ the RR situation but just need some time to reassure RR and parents how a business arrangement and a youg players dream can come together w/o the meddlesome agent’s constant influence.
Rubio is a girl, I know it’s recently, but when did it because common that players felt they get to decide what team they play for? So why don’t we have 3 NBA teams, the knicks, lakers, and heat. 100 players on each team, then they’ll all get to play where they want. Pro sporst aren’t even fun anymore, it’s a bunch of selfish players whining over getting 10 million a year instead of 12 million. I’m a much bigger fan of college sports now, pathetic, go home to Spain and be a whiny brat the rest of your life. I don’t go into a job interview and when they offer me the job whine and tell them I want to work at their competitors company and make more money. Getting old.
Geno
There’s about 5 Centers that will probably go in the top 20 picks next year, plus a handful of PF’s that block shots. Next year’s draft has Centers and PF’s like this years draft had PG’s. Next years draft is going to be much much better than this years.
There aren’t really any 5’s available in FA that block shots and play good D in my opinion. I think the Wolves would be better off waiting until next year to fill that need.
deathgrip,
You’re absolutely right. Kahn needs to act like a college coach here and work on recruiting Ricky and his family.
He needs to highlight the fact that Ricky is an 18 year old kid who has said he is very shy. Kahn’s argument should be do you want you son playing in New York where the media will turn on him if he messes up… and he will mess up. Or do you want him in a place where the fans are so excited that they don’t care what he does this year.
I’d show him examples of Kirby Puckett, Kevin Garnett, and Joe Mauer. We don’t always have a ton of superstars like New York or L.A. but when we do get one we love them like no other.
Maybe highlight the fact that when Garnett won with the celtics he dedicated it to the people in Minnesota.
If Ricky and his parents know that this is a good place for him to learn to be an NBA player and grow into being a superstar and then that should make his coming here all the more easy.
mark, part of that sales pitch has to wait until we have a coach/mentor to present as well…more to come on that one 
Thanks for my morning dose of misogyny, Jimbo.
Jimbo — Seriously, how long have you been following sports? People trying to call their shot on the draft goes back decades. How about John Elway, who told the Colts he wouldn’t report and forced a trade to the Broncos? Or Stephon Marbury and Steve Francis? Kobe Bryant?
WOW–
Of course you’re right on that. The right coach could go a long way. I’m guessing that’s something that would be talked about. Kahn has said he’s talked to Al and Love about what type of coach they want and I’m sure he’d talk to Ricky as well.
The night of the draft he did say he’d love to play for a coach had also been a player and I could be mistaken but I thought he said something about a coach who had been a point guard would be great too.
Sean -
Let’s not forget that during the mid-90’s the Twins could rarely get their first round picks to sign.
The draft pick from Denver/Charlotte is protected for years yet…
lottery in 2009,
top 12 in 2010,
top 10 in 2011,
top 8 in 2012,
top 3 in 2013,
unprotected in 2014
Its not like the wolves need talent now anyway, the futures what counts …(ya right!!!!!!!)
You know, when Khan was first hired I was of the same opinion as Jerry. The guy was going to be over his head and did not have the qualifications to handle the job.
Since then however, I am going to admit I was wrong. The guy is sly as heck and is not afraid to crack a few eggs.
I think taking Rubio and Flynn was brilliant. Rubio was the best player on the board, and Flynn is going to be really good. Both are genuine assets, whether or not they play here or together.
Rubio’s best value to the wolves might be in what he brings in a trade however. If the kid really does not want to play here. Then hang on to him until you find the right deal for the Wolves.
Well done Khan. I like the fact you’re not afraid to rock the boat and take on these prima donna’s and their agents.
Geno–you know, you could do some research on your own…
But OK. A couple of guys would be available in trades now are Sam Dalembert from the 76ers, Tyson Chandler from the Hornets and Marcus Camby from the Clippers. I’m not advocating any of those guys, just pointing out some names.
As for next year’s draft, there’s Aldrich, Greg Monroe from Georgetown, probably Ed Davis from NC (more of a 4), Jerome Jordan from Tulsa, and a few other guys.
Kestrel - great post at 7:49am
My impression of Fegan is that he’s a real greedy jerk who thinks his players should be greedy too, and thus line his pockets even more. I hope Ricky wises up - and maybe grows up a little - fires Fegan and makes some decisions for himself.
At 18 he needs to heed the advice of his parents, but that doesn’t mean they are making the best choice for him. My impression of them is that the chance for their son to make a LOT of money has skewed their decision making ability. The few comments about and from the parents make me wonder if they really have the best interests of their son at heart.
It’s not a parents job to run their child’s life. Let them make choices, and do all you can to help them make good ones. If they don’t and the consequences follow, support them and guide them through it as best you can and they allow. Let them make mistakes, but don’t make them pay for yours.
The perfect coach for this team? Dwane Casey. I remember Taylor grousing before they sacked him that they shouldn’t have hired an inexperienced coach while they were in “win now” mode. Why didn’t they think of that when they hired him? And of course, they did much more winning with Casey than his replacement anyway.
But I’m not bitter.
Anyway, writers so often complain that teams only hire retreads. Mark Jackson wouldn’t be one. If he can get Al to defend (and Big Al is working out this summer) then, hey, let’s go with him.
wassup ricky?? 
lolol he’s sexxyyy
i wouldnt kick him outta bed!
[…] Jerry Zgoda, Minneapolis Star Tribune: "To address the little birdie and Charley Walters’ ‘report’ that Ricky Rubio was in town — or due in town — yesterday to meet with David Kahn … Honestly, I don’t know. I’ve worked to confirm it, which unfortunately as a beat writer is a necessity, but haven’t been able to. David Kahn promised ‘transparency’ when he took the job but eventually said ‘Sorry, we have no comment’ when I texted him numerous times to ask if has, or will soon meet, with Rubio and his father. That he says no comment rather than deny it leads me to believe there’s something there, which isn’t surprising that the two sides would begin some kind of conversation face to face soon." […]
Can someone explain the “protected” language? Is it if Charlotte is in the top 12, they keep the pick for that year..and if they are outside the top 12, we could exercise the pick or wait until the next year…or if they finish 14th, do we have to use that pick?
The Wolves take the pick if it’s outside the top 12. The Bobcats could give up the pick if they had the 12 pick or higher but why would they do that?
Whatever the Wolves do here will end in disaster. Rubio will never play here and we will give him away in a stupid trade. New York has nothing we can use, so why even talk to them?
Wake me up when the Wolves approach .500. As it stands now they have the worst perimeter shooting in the league.
Thanks. If Charlotte has a pick outside the top 12, can we then let them have the pick and hope for the next year?
” My impression of them is that the chance for their son to make a LOT of money has skewed their decision making ability. The few comments about and from the parents make me wonder if they really have the best interests of their son at heart.”
What ARE his best interests, according to you? This isnt charity, he’s in this to make money. This is a job.
Craig, what the hell did you want them to do? The way I look at it, the Wolves are in a lot better shape now than before the draft.
If Kahn had passed on Rubio twice, he would have been the laughing stock of the league. For that reason alone if nothing else, we had to take him.
mlemke63
No they take the pick. Why would they want to wait another year? Generally a top 12 player improves your team.
I’ve read reports that there was a meeting today in Spain to work on his buyout. I’ve been looking around and haven’t found any additional information.
I know canis hoopus has some translations from spanish sites regarding the meeting but haven’t been able to find anything else. Anybody having any better luck?
From the last thread:
For those people that were worried that the Wolves were going to have too many max players in a couple of years, I sure hope all that discussion was a joke. And for whoever thought Love would sign for $4 million per after his contract runs out, I hope that was a joke too.
If the Wolves only concern is that they have too many players that deserve a Max contract I think they’d take that problem every year.
I was trying to read through that discussion and I couldn’t make it more than about 5 posts without laughing. Thanks for the laughs.
the only reason people keep bringing up the knicks is because they keep bringing themselves up saying they are going to contact the wolves about Rubio. no other team has come out publicly and stated that.
and that has been old since Saturday.
well mark it’s 6pm in spain so if you’re going to hear something it will be soon. I’ve been on google myself looking for any report but still nothing.
I see your point about passing on Rubio twice. It’s just frustrating. This team has been terrible for years, now we have to wait even longer?
Maybe they could have just taken Curry and Flynn and live with it. At least with Curry you would have some shooting. As it stands now they have no outside shooting whatsoever.
Going into this Rubio situation I think everyone with sense knew it might be a long haul to get it resolved.
There’s no reason to be getting upset over it yet nor to adopt the silly fatalistic stance Craig has.
WOW -
Agreed. Could we please stop mentioning New York as a viable destination in the case that we trade Rubio. They have absolutely nothing to offer us. Nothing. The only people who think this might be possible are New Yorkers who have some kind of perverse feeling of entitlement to the best athletes in the world.
Until the Rubio thing is cleared up, you’re going to see constant speculation (particularly from the big cities) that Rubio is coming there. Since the Knicks have a hole at PG and there are connections between Kahn and Walsh, the NY media is going to go with that story until proven otherwise. Just as Chicago’s Sam Smith did regular KG-to-the-Bulls stories back in the day.
You’ve just got to let it roll off your back until we know what is actually going to happen, and it’s probably not going to be for a while yet.
Rubio hit nearly 40% from 3 pt. range last year. What he lacks is a mid-range jump shot.
Don’t say he can’t shoot it’s just that he doesn’t shoot very often.
The Knicks and their whining media and fans can keep crying, they aren’t getting Rubio unless they bring in another team. They have nothing I want. And Craig there is no way they could have passed on Rubio, it would have been a PR nightmare. I had no interest in Curry either, he will be killed defensively.
craig, Ellington is a shooter, Gomes was decent last year shooting the ball. Love has a good mid-range game and free agency hasn’t even started yet. you have two days to wait and see if there will be more added to this team.
and other than the 8yrs the Wolves made the playoffs consecutively being a wolves fan has meant that you will be meet w/ frustration. thats 12yrs of my life that the team has been under 30wins and in the lottery…
I don’t know if the fortunes of the franchise will get turned around but Rubio could very well be the guy to turn it around. who knows.
Craig:
It took a long time for the Timberwolves to get as deeply mired in the mess they got themselves into, and it’s not going to get turned around in one year. Even if they had picked another undersized jump shooter.
Even the Trailblazers, who have routinely had what most people agree are some of the best drafts and personnel moves over the past few years have just now gotten to the point where they’re a playoff team.
And Pritchard started with more in the cupboard than Kahn did.
I think we’re all frustrated by the state of the team heading into this off-season, however we have to confront reality about both where this team was and the amount of time it will take to get the team where it needs to be.
I still would have taken Brandon Jennings at #5. By the way, I love the work that Fegan did with Steely Dan.
After marinating on the Rubio situation over the weekend I am begining to think that Kahn has no intention of pairing Rubio and Flynn together. Flynn is insurance if Rubio never suits up with the Wolves, which seems to be more and more likely every day. Rubio if he continues to improve will either make Flynn expendable or become a trade asset for a deeper draft next year, in which the wolves could possibly get a center or Small Wing Type Forward.
I would love to see Flynn win the job out right which I believe he will. I don’t think Rubio will ever be a big time player in the NBA. He is too small and weak. Bigger guards will destroy him in the NBA. I see Flynn as having a quality of toughness that Rubio does not have, and I believe that quality is more important than the flashy passing that Rubio is known for.
brandon jennings is going to have a 10yr career for the simple reason is that each team he goes to will be that next coach that will be able to unlock his potential. same w/ Kwame Brown, Milicic, JWill, and any other journeyman you can think of that is full of “potential”
PO-
Really? Too small? He’s 6′5 with a 6′7 wingspan.
Did you see him play in the olympics. They kid can play defense. I don’t think he’s gonna get used in the NBA.
Rubio WILL be and IS a big guard already in the NBA and several have said he may not be done growing.
So the guy who is 6-foot-4 is going to get destroyed by bigger players, but the guy who’s just barely scraping six feet will be OK? Glad to see Minnesota provincialism is alive and well!
Really, Howler? That’s the best you could do with Fegan?
“if Rubio never suits up with the Wolves, which seems to be more and more likely every day”
This buyout situation was going to be complex no matter who drafted him. Not having it resolved already may seem significant in the 24 hour sports news cycle we’re caught in, but to anyone who’s followed this situation it’s absolutely what was expected.
“more and more likely every day” it’s been 4 days…wow…WOW
come on people…
Silly fatalistic stance? If you take any other stance with the Wolves you have to be a fool.
Ellington was a decent shooter at the college level, but is he good enough overall to play that much? Gomes is OK. Flynn has no outside shot either. Jefferson will get triple teamed every night.
Who in their right mind would join the Wolves as a free agent? They don’t even have a coach.
The Blazers made significant strides every year and even if they just made the playoffs, the year before they were very close. It’s been two years since they traded KG which was supposedly going to push them in the right direction but we have seen two years of poor records and this one promises to be the worst one yet.
My thing with Rubio is if you knew he wasn’t going to play here, why draft him? The history of teams trading a highly regarded draft pick is not good. The Grizzlies got pretty much nothing for Steve Francis, and Charlotte got Divac in exchange for Kobe.
The Blazers are also a couple years ahead of us in the rebuilding process, have had more lottery luck, and have had an excellent GM who fleeced a couple teams, including us.
I think this whole thing is Stephon Marbury 2. The kid exudes whiny attitude. Hate to be a negative realist, but it seems obvious that even in the best case scenario Rubio is wearing a Suns/Spurs/Mavs/Heat/Rockets/Magic/Lakers/Clippers jersey in four years. He doesn’t want to be here. We in Wolves Phonebooth are better off hoping for a high draft pick or a quality veteran or two in trade before young Ricky ever puts on a MN uniform. We should roll with Flynn and Ellington and get something for Rubio while his value is still high.
well craig, was Witless the right coach? no. did the wolves have the possibility of winning 35 or so games last year before Jefferson got hurt? possibly. they ended up w/ 24 and didn’t have Jefferson for the final 2.5months.
The Timberwolves did it again…a lousy draft. Other than Garnett and Wally, most picks didn’t fit the system, right from the beginning of time. In came Taylor and promised improvement, it never came about. I can’t think of one person I know that didn’t think Stephen Curry shouldn’t have been the first or second pick. As for Flynn, we have to wait and see if he is “coachable”. Still waiting for the post player that can play with his back to the basket and rotate in a split second. Who and where is that player, Mr. Kahn and Mr. Taylor? We have waited a long time for this team and patience is wearing thin. And our next coach should be Don Nelson…argument over.
MN_AZ
You need to get over the fact that sometimes people don’t want to play in Minnesota. Sometimes you take them anyway and hope that four years is enough to change somebody’s mind. If they don’t, they don’t. But you shouldn’t trade away a player who has the potential to be one of the best point guards of his generation just because you’re scard that in four years he might not want to play with us.
If we go by your attitude we might as well fold all of our professional sports teams.
Mark,
Call it a gut feeling or what ever you want too, I just don’t get the sense from watching Rubio that he has that killer instinct that the great ones have. I don’t sense that with Rubio but I do with Flynn, his six overtime performance in the big east tourney was an example of his ability to lead his team, I can’t name one example of Rubio being able to do that??
“I think this whole thing is Stephon Marbury 2. The kid exudes whiny attitude. Hate to be a negative realist, but”
You’re not being a negative realist considering he’s said absolutely nothing that could be construed as whiny.
In fact he hasn’t said anything significant about the position period.
ski-doolund,
Who are the people you know? Stephen Curry? Del Curry? Dick Vitale?
Nice work
“Call it a gut feeling or what ever you want too, I just don’t get the sense from watching Rubio that he has that killer instinct that the great ones have. I don’t sense that with Rubio but I do with Flynn”
You don’t see that in Rubio’s youtube videos? Where have you seen him?
why draft a guy if you don’t think he’ll play for you? I don’t think that thought was entering Kahn’s mind when he saw that the top PG in the draft was still available after a team like Sacramento that was suppose to draft RR because that is what Fegan said was going to happen, and then OKC who didn’t need to draft another PG wasn’t going to take him and thus he fell past Sacto and to US!. that doesn’t make any sense but when the top guy is there you take him. and knowing that Rubio might be a problem w/ the buyout and what not…you take the guy that Kahn was in love w/ from the beginning…Flynn…
why is this so hard for you people to grasp?? it boggles my mind why you don’t get it. it’s a business, it’s not always about what’s easiest, its about getting your business further ahead and sometimes that road is difficult.
PO
You might very well be right. I just don’t want to cut bait with Rubio right now because we’re worried that he might not play here or maybe he doesn’t have the killer instinct. Maybe he does. It just seems like a lot of maybes when we’re talking about a potential franchise point guard.
I know it’s unorthodox and there’s a huge chance that it doesn’t work but I for one would love to see rubio and flynn on the court at the same time. They were hands down my two favorite players in the draft and thta backcourt has the potential to be insanely entertaining.
Tim — I loved Frederic Weis. Keep up the good work!
What happend to the guy the wolves drafted last year from Europe? i’m drawing a blank on his name but how is he doing right now in Europe and how much longer is he expected to stay there.
Don’t get the feeling Rubio has a killer instinct? Can’t name an example? How about naming an example of seeing the kid play at all, period.
C’mon people, do you really expect us to believe you’ve been watching Rubio’s games all year?
All I’m seeing here are misconceptions about Ricky.
He doesn’t want to play here? He’s never said that. In fact, he said he’s quite fine with it as long as he gets minutes.
He’s too small? He’s 6′4″, 180 lbs. He’s the same size as Gary Payton.
He can’t defend? He’s a two time defensive player of the year in Spain.
He lacks a killer instinct? How does a kid get a professional basketball contract at 14 YEARS OLD without some kind of mean streak?
C’mon people. Think some of this through.
Tyler:
Nikola Pekovic. I doubt he ever comes over, and if he does he’s not really anything that remarkable. Big dude that can score a bit right around the basket but doesn’t rebound or show much interest in D.
Tyler — Nikola Pekovic had a very good season in Europe. However, Kahn is not high on him, thinking him too similar to Love and Jefferson, and he is reportedly negotiating a contract extension with his Greek team.
All this talk about Robio, is a side misses the point. This guy and his father and agent are doing what always people do–to look for what’s their best intererst. And it’s unfair for people to jump on this guy. The real issue here is people doing their home work before a big decision like this is made–did the Wolves do their due deligent?
Tyler-
Nikolai Pekovic. And based on what Kahn has said, the guy is basically trade bait.
He’s a talented player, but all he does in the end is score and rebound in the post. We already have two of those guys.
Anyone saying Rubio can’t defend is revealing they don’t know anything about him beyond ESPN blurbs and is falling back to silly stereotypes of European players.
all the due diligence you need in that situation is to realize that the consensus 2nd best prospect in the draft unexpectedly fell to you at the fifth pick.
In that moment you ask yourself. Is there anyway this kid could help us? The answer is yes, whether he plays or doesn’t. So you take him and figure things out afterwords. To not take him would be insanity.
If you’ve seen Rubio play… I mean actually seen him play, not just on youtube then you’d know that he can play defense. Did anybody watch the gold medal game? He absolutely harassed Jason Kidd by being physical. His steals weren’t just luck he earned them the hard way. By being tough.
omar, why are just now asking that question. do you think the Wolves would do their “Due Diligence” I don’t think the effort to try and get to number two or number 3 to pick Rubio was a case of them just thinking on the fly…the Wolves, like many teams have a full time Euro scout, who’s only job is to scout european players…thats his job. the wolves traveled to spain in may to watch him work out. they had guys at all the pre draft work outs to watch him… I would like you to do your “due diligence” before you post
and maybe the thought is more on how is his defense going to be at the NBA level. are there going to be guys he struggles against? well yeah, duh, it’s the NBA
The Blazers are a couple years ahead of us in the rebuilding process only because they are smarter.
Kahn should have done his homework on Rubio. Even if he didn’t expect him to be there at 5, it was always a possibility.
It’s pretty clear Rubio doesn’t want to be here. Didn’t show up for the the press conference. And if he does want to play here why hasn’t he said anything to stop the speculation. European stars are very spoiled, they don’t have to deal with a draft, they just expect to go where they want to go. Rubio has been told since early on how great he is and his arrogance is evident.
If he was an american player he would be getting destroyed in the media.
Rubio’s defense projects to translate very well to the NBA. Better than Flynn’s actually IMO, and I think Flynn will be one of the best perimeter defenders in the league in a few years.
Ricky defends with his head. Like Shane Battier or Bruce Bowen. It’s all about footwork and timing playing smart. That’s something that will always work in the NBA.
Craig,
Rubio can’t play here unless his buyout is lowered. If it’s evident that he is going to the NBA then his team will not lower the amount.
You have to remember they don’t want him to come back. But if he threatens to come back they may be more likely to lower the amount of the buyout. His spanish team is bankrupt. They need the money.
Him not coming to the press conference means nothing except that he’s being smart with his negotiations. Just like Kahn is with him saying that the wolves can wait. It’s all geared towards getting his Spanish team to lower the buyout demands.
Craig-
I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say now. Obviously Kevin Pritchard is smarter than McHale. Is he smarter than Kahn? Who knows, Kahn has only been at the job for TWO MONTHS.
How do you expect Kahn to build a team faster than Portland when their GM has been at it for 2 years and ours has only had two months? We haven’t even seen Kahn’s version of the team play yet and you’re already writing him off.
GET REAL
If the Knicks had selected Rubio do you think he would have been at the press conference? Of course.
He’s not going to play here. The best we can hope for is a trade.
Bryan, on Portland. It was said that they got started rebuilding earlier than the Wolves, I was just pointing out that’s only because they did a better job.
On Rubio’s defense, even people who think he’s a great prospect say his defense will take a lot of work. Comparing him to Bowen or Battier is kind of ridiculous, both of good foot speed and are strong. Rubio is a step slow and frail. Maybe in time he will be a good defender, but not right away.
No one who plays 28 minutes in the gold medal game against Deron Williams and Kobe Bryant is frail.
And no, Portland didn’t start rebuilding sooner because they did a better job. They started sooner because when they started, we still had Kevin Garnett. We weren’t looking to rebuild.
I mean, you’re not even thinking when you say these things.
Craig — The Blazers started before us and they’ve had pretty much everything go right for them. Now I fully agree with you that the Wolves aren’t where they should be at this point in the process.
That’s not David Kahn’s fault. He’s got to deal with the team he has, not how we wished the team to be.
I don’t think passing on Rubio was an option. What would you have done?
And given that Rubio hasn’t flat-out said he’s not coming here, I think it’s rather premature to go down that route. Maybe that is what he thinks. Maybe it isn’t. But until he says so, we should hold our fire. I would also suggest that such behavior hasn’t been the pattern of European players in the past.
do you guys remember last Wednesday when the Wolves were trying to get up to #2 or #3?? that is because Kahn was quite sure that Sac was taking Rubio and he wanted to get in front of them to take Rubio…Rubio is who he wanted all along…why don’t any of you guys see this?
Particularly Spanish players. If cold was an issue, Claderon would have balked about going to Toronto. If market was an issue, neither of the Gasols would have gone to Memphis. Etc.
thanks gendo sean and bryan i appreciate quick responses and i do hope he comes over because, like i said i don’t remember it that well, but i remember the draft analysts last year say they thought he would be a good player. But you could take there opinions either way really.
It angers me to know that he is negotiating to stay there. after hearing that it looks like he won’t ever play for us.
i asked this before but no one answered…. what is gonna happen to Ellington? starter or on the bench?
i think that the comparison’s to Rashad Mccants are unfair and that it seems like he has a better head on his shoulders then Mccants
Well…Pekovic did kind of say before he was drafted that he never wants to play in the NBA. Which kind of raises the question of why he entered the draft in the first place (probably just to keep options open)
And of course, why did McHale draft him?
Kahn has done an excellent job so far:
1. Kicking McHale to the curb… had to happen.
2. The Washington Trade… Miller was a goner and he determined that Foye wasn’t a player he wanted to extend beyond his rookie contract. To get Ricky Rubio (whether he plays here or we just leverage his value in a trade) for Miller and Foye was amazing. Anybody quibbling with that trade doesn’t understand that you need more than serviceable starters and 6th-man types to win a championship. Serviceable starters and 6th-men are easy to find. A true star, which Rubio could be, is hard to find. Even if we just end up trading Rubio down the line, we’re going to get a return that is valued FAR greater than Miller and Foye.
3. The draft - Flynn and Ellington are good players. I think Flynn will be a Top-10 NBA PG and Ellington is going to be just as effective as Foye was, if not better. Rubio was a necessary pick, regardless of what you think his playing future is in Minnesota. Can you imagine what the uproar would have been on this board if Kahn would have passed on Rubio with both of those picks. He HAD to take Rubio and deal with the consequences later. At the No. 5 pick, you don’t bypass the consensus No. 2 talent in the draft.
4. Stockpiling more assets for the 2010 Draft… next year’s draft is exactly opposite of this year’s draft: tons of good bigs, very few PGs. So to get into a position where he’ll likely have three 1st-rounders next year in addition to a bevy of PGs to leverage in trade is brilliant. He has assets that teams will overpay for - simple supply and demand will dictate that.
5. Well positioned to round out the roster by next year’s draft. Our biggest hole is now CENTER. There are three start-worthy centers available in next year’s draft - Soloman Alibi, Cole Aldrich and Jerome Jordan. With three 1st-rounders and the ability to trade Rubio still there, Kahn will be able to get at least one of those centers and then some in a trade.
All’s going well right now, even if there is a lot of uncertainty regarding Rubio and the final make-up of what this team will look like in a couple years.
Hi Jerry. Anything new on Rubio or the coaching search?
Sorry some of the posters here are so disrespectful. On the flip side, practically everything you post re: Rubio is getting sent around the world.
Tell the Strib you need an intern or two to keep feeding the insatiable Wolves fan base
I’m sorry but I feel like people aren’t actually reading the posts. Rubio is not negotiating to stay in Spain… he is negotiating a lower buyout. The only he’s going to get that is buy saying he’s fine with coming back. His team does not want him to come back, they want him to pay the buyout because they need the money. I REPEAT, his team does not want him to come back. He wants to play in the NBA but the only way that will happen is if his buyout is lowered. This is why you keep hear him say that if he stays in europe he only wants to play for his old team. He’s putting the pressure on them because they are bankrupt.
Bryan — Pekovic was automatically eligible for the draft on the basis of his age (22) at the time of the draft.
I think people are a bit too optimistic regarding Ellington. If he’s more than a bit player, he’s either the SOD or Kahn has failed in putting other pieces on this team.
Tyler:
1. For better or for worse, I think Wayne Ellington is going to start this year and make one of the All-Rookie teams. I predict he’ll land on the All-Rookie 2nd-team. He’ll get lots of minutes and has the ability to hit 3-pointers (to the tune of 5% better 3-point shooting percentage against far better defenders than Stephen Curry against far weaker defenders). He’ll get minutes, get shots and score probably 14-16 ppg as a rookie in my opinion.
2. Long-term, I believe he has a ceiling similar to Randy Foye… though Ellington has the hard-to-find and very desirable “NBA Skill” of 3-point shooting, so I believe he’ll be worth more to an NBA team than Randy Foye, who is good at almost everything, but not great at anything. I’ll take the player (Ellington) who is great at ONE skill than the player (Foye) who is just OK/good at multiple skills.
3. I have the feeling that Ellington has a decent chance to be the star that nobody predicted would be a star because he’s got that one great skill and has an excellent head on his shoulders.
Hopefully, someone with a little more knowledge than myself can answer this question:
Who has the authority to lower Rubio’s buyout? Is it still DKV, or is it now the Spanish IRS?
Rubio played OK in the gold medal game, but since then it’s been blown out of performance. To listen to you guys he dominated the game.
I’ve barely seen the kid play. I’m just going by what the scouts said. Even the people who love him say his D is suspect. That’s all I am saying.
If Rubio had indicated he didn’t want to play here I would have passed on him. No sense getting a guy who is a whiner and doesn’t want to play here. Especially since the history of trading the rights to drafted players is not good. Take somebody who wants to play and live with it.
Rubio hasn’t flat out said he’s not going to be here, but every action since the draft indicates he wants out.
Does that automatically enter him? I thought you had to formally declare.
Tyler-
It depends on how Rubio’s situation turns out. Most likely Ellington will come off the bench, as a backup to either Rubio or Brewer. But he’s one of only two shooters on the team and the only real shooting guard, so he’ll get a ton of minutes regardless of his role.
Yahoo! is reporting that Yao will likely miss all of this upcoming season and that his career is in jeopardy…
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-yaorockets062909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
Bryan — International players are automatically eligible at age 22. If you go before (like Rubio) then you have to declare. It’s meant to be the equivalent of having used up your college eligibility — you don’t have to declare for the draft then, either — you are automatically eligible.
Hmm, I didn’t know that. I thought that only applied to college players.
Well, at any rate, the chances of Pekovic playing here are way less than the chances Rubio plays here. Not only does he not want to be here, but it doesn’t sound like Kahn wants him here either.
Foo — Ellington brings one skill to the table. Which makes him like J.J. Redick or Trajan Langdon or any other of the good shooters who turned out to be mediocre (or worse) NBA players.
I don’t see Ellington bringing anything else to the table. He’s not exceptionally athletic. He doesn’t get to the line. He puts in good effort defensively, which may make him something of an upgrade there if he’s not out of his league athletically.
Craig — what is the evidence that Rubio is a “whiner”?
I think Ellington is very athletic. Way more than JJ. If anything, it’s his shooting that’s up in the air, because he really didn’t come on as a great shooter until this year.
I mean, Ellington tested out at the combine with a 38″ max vertical. That’s 3 more inches than Wade.
I don’t really get the debate about Ellington. I thought he was the perfect match of need and availability. Still, he’s the 28th pick. He’s very unlikely to be a star. But if he can hit 3s at a decent rate and not be a liability on defense, it’ll have been a good pick.
The fact that he’s trying to finagle is way out of playing for the Wolves. He got drafted to play for millions of dollars a year in the best league in the world. Boo-Hoo.
Going back to the olympics for a second. While it was impressive he was there at 17 I think it’s being overblown.
First of all, he only started the gold medal game because of injuries to other players. He played OK, but to hear you guys talk he locked up the entire US lineup.
Further, playing well against the US national team with international rules does not necessarily predict NBA success. Wolves fans all remember Shane Heal.
Or what about Patrick Mills who ran the US team ragged, but is not considered to be a top prospect.
Not saying Rubio won’t be good, just that using the gold medal game is not a great indicator.
Calderon’s injury happened in the quarterfinals, so the reason Rubio playing in the gold medal game is a big deal is because he was the one that got them there in the first place.
And ya, it’s a big deal. He held his own, at 17 years old, against Kobe Bryant. Probably the best basketball player on the planet. That’s a Big. Deal.
And no, he’s not trying to find a way out. If anything, he’s trying to find a way it. It’s his agent that wants a way out.
Craig — What evidence is there that he’s trying to get out of playing for the Wolves? In terms of hard evidence, there’s none. Just inferences.
Rubio has to pay $6+ million to get out of his contract which is going to eat up his first two years of salary as the #5 pick. When he’s been playing for less than $150K a year in Spain, that’s a significant issue.
People aren’t only looking at the gold medal game when talking about Rubio, either.
Are there questions one can legitimately raise about whether his game will translate to the NBA? Sure. But that’s equally true of ANYBODY the Wolves would have picked at #5 or #6. Flynn, Curry, Hill, DeRozan, Jennings — all have huge question marks. So why not take the player with perhaps the highest upside and the highest trade value? Who would you have picked, Craig?
The anti-Rubio or anti-Kahn (for drafting him) people are just being stupid for stupid sake. It’s like so many of the arguments I heard before the election. Certain people would focus on issues that were totally unimportant and then get the facts about those issues wrong.
Read Foo’s post not too far above. If you’re holding any intelligence whatsoever, you can’t disagree with it.
And my two cents on “not wanting to play in Minny.” Get over it people. You have such an inferiority complex. No one in their right mind SHOULD want to be here…unless the organization is attractive and/or the team is winning. If I’m not from Minny, it’s very unlikely I’d choose it.
The Wolves need to make themselves attractive, because they’re not winning.
Kahn had, at this point, a great draft. It might be that Flynn isn’t the one or Rubio isn’t the one, so it might not be great in the future.
Last week, the Wolves had one star or potential star. This week they have three after drafting at five and six in a shallow draft.
Stephen Curry is not a luxury the Wolves could afford. He’s going to be good but with no (or very little) star potential. Still, we probably would have taken him had we not had two potential stars available because this draft had only 4-5 foreseeable potential stars (Griffin, Rubio, Evans, Flynn, maybe Harden).
As for this idiotic love for Love, get some perspective. He will never be a star. If someone speculates he won’t start, it’s not that big of stretch, given that he plays the same position as our one established star. But he’s good and somewhat fun to watch. He’ll get plenty of minutes and should…who cares whether he starts the game?
Someone said now all we need is a center. Don’t forget small forward. Gomes isn’t sure to sign when done with his contract (couple of years) and Brewer is in the same boat and may never be good enough anyway. Neither right now deserves to be an NBA starter. Gomes is a good backup and can start in the meantime. Brewer is possibly a worthy starter down the road, but I wouldn’t bet the house on it.
Ellington I’m not counting on for anything. He’ll play this year, but I can see where he might be in over his head. If not, great.
Sorry if I was rude up front, but the anti-Rubio people are just not thinking this whole thing through, and it drives me nuts when stupid reasons for not liking or wanting him constantly are thrown up here. They insult the rest of our intelligence.
to be 17yrs old and play as well as he did against the US back court I would think is pretty special. even if it was for one game. DWade and Williams and CP3 all said the same thing of Rubio after the game, and that was that he was going to be special.
Geno - Check out the link below for possible 2010 draftees. Plenty of C’s, SF’s and SG’s in the top 20. Whether they all come out or not, time will tell.
http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9742454/Early-2010-NBA-mock-draft
i am going on the positive route w/ Ellington, if the guy can shoot he’ll be in the league for a long time. shooting is a wonderful skill to have. especially on teams that tend to have a lot of inside out ball movement. if he can be even adequate defensively he’ll be fine.
Bookmark Foo’s above post. Everybody should have to read that before they post.
Ellington is going to be a contributor. Probably not a flop and not an allstar either. We won’t mind having him on the squad.
Bryan - I’m not discounting what Rubio did in the gold medal game, I’m just suggesting you are putting too much into it. He played OK. The reason they stayed so close was Gasol and Fernandez, not Rubio.
Sean - Since Rubio hasn’t made any comment at all, yes I am making inferences about him not wanting to be here. I’m basing it on three things - He didn’t show up for the news conference, His father saying he will stay in Spain and not one comment from anyone connected with Rubio saying he wants to be here. Show me one piece of evidence that indicates he wants to be here I will be a believer.
On the gold medal game, no I’m not saying anyone is basing their opinion entirely on that game, I’m just saying some are putting too much into that one game.
As far as who I would have picked. If there was a good idea that Rubio wouldn’t play here I would have taken Curry and Flynn.
As far as positions of need, we need a real off guard (Not Flynn) a small forward and a center. If Kahn can address any of those in the next two months I will be back on the bandwagon.
Twinstalker - How are we insulting your intelligence by suggesting Rubio doesn’t want to be here? Most of the evidence points toward that. To this point only one first round pick has not appeared with his new team or made a comment about his new team, Ricky Rubio. Indicates to me he is trying to force his way out.
Anybody think we could get Greg Oden and Rudy Fernendez for Big Al? That is IF we are in fact shopping him. But Oden would be the center for years, and Fernandez would help get Rubio here.
Do you realize how stupid we would have looked if we had passed on Rubio twice? I mean, that’s like the Clippers passing on Blake Griffin to draft Jonny Flynn.
I’m really wary of Oden. Theoretically he’s a perfect fit, but he and Bynum both look to be very injury prone for most of their careers. Oden’s body is awkward.
On the need issue, I won’t be at all worried if Kahn doesn’t address the SG issue this year. Kahn has said that this is a long-term project. We’ll have as many as 3 first-round picks next year, and I’ll be very surprised if we don’t use one of them on a SG. The choices should be better then, anyway. (I like Kahn, but there’s no way he really thinks our best team regularly has Rubio and Flynn on the court at the same time.)
In the meantime, we can see how well Ellington plays and give some D-league guys a shot. I don’t want us to mess up the salary cap situation just to get marginally better for next year. Now if he can trade some of the excess big men for other people’s excess guards with no adverse cap issues, fine.
If Rubio doesn’t play this year, we can just rotate in Ellington and Corey Brewer at shooting guard, and Carney if he returns. We’re solid there.
Yes Madison Dan ! Get some d-leaguers up here for some empty spots !
Ellington/Brewer/Carney is a solid shooting guard rotation? In the NBDL perhaps…
Bringing in Carney at this point is silly…there are d-leaguers we can find for cheaper.
I think Ellington can be the next Rip Hamilton, good shooter and good overall, plus a good locker room guy, Rip gave up his starting spot even though he wasn’t happy about it and said and did the right things. Then he got it back, If Ellington turns out to be like Rip I would be very happy.
Shooting guard is very important even though the Wolves have neglected it for years. They need outside shooting badly. I was no big fan of Miller or Foye, but they could occassionally knock down a 3. Now we have no one to loosen up the lane.
Lost in all of this talk about the future is the fact that I can’t see Jefferson wanting to wait around to see this grand project come to fruition. While waiting for Rubio or whoever, might be nice to have at least some outside shooting to prevent Jefferson from getting triple-teamed every night.
Nice comments all around by the way. Obviously I am a pessimist when it comes to Minnesota sports. I’ve just heard ‘Be patient’ so many times in my lifetime and they never come through.
You guys really underestimate how good Ellington will be.
Would you say NBDL if I suggested a rotation of Brewer/Carney/Courtney Lee?
Bryan - “Corey Brewer, SG” is an oxymoron. 
Corey will improve his shot. He already showed remarkable signs of it last year.
I’m with you, Craig. Jefferson will only wait so long. My hope is that at the end of the 2010 draft (and maybe the following free agent market), we have pieces in place at every position that have a chance to succeed. I just don’t think that’s possible to do this year. And if that’s the case, I really don’t care how bad our record is in 2009-2010. We just need to learn more about what we have.
Well, Kahn is pretty convinced we’ll be ready for a major playoff push in 2010. We certainly have the assets to be, if we use them correctly.
Did anyone see the article on Yahoo about Yao done for next season and maybe his career is over? That would be crazy
I saw it. Sad, but….well, to be honest I’ve been expecting it for a couple of years now. Yao just has a very difficult body to play 82 games with.
That’s a big reason why I’d steer clear of Oden.
Bryan — Why should we believe Ellington is going to be that good? He was the 28th pick in a lousy draft. He doesn’t get to the line. He’s got a short wingspan for a guy his size. He’s a good jumper, but his agility is average. He’s a good shooter, but shows little ability to create his own shot.
In terms of who was available at #28, he’s a perfectly fine pick. But we ought not be counting on him as the solution to our SG issue. He should be a bit player, nothing more.
No Oden !
the fact is that riki belongs to DKV joventut. if anyone wants him, maybe should pay for what he is worth. (some million dollars).
Next seasons draft, I am praying for Cole Aldrich and either Xavier Henry or Evan Turner.
Well you’ve already backpeddled pretty quickly on your “Ellington isn’t a good athlete” comment Sean. What else about him do you not know?
And notice I said we were solid. Not great, not spectacular. Maybe Ellington becomes the right guy alongside the right teammates, but by no means am I counting on him being the long term solution here. But as a placeholder for a year or two, I think a three man rotation of Ellington/Brewer/Carney is pretty reasonable to have.
I think Cole Aldrich is very much the wrong player for us. He’s just a taller Kevin Love.
Jerome Jordan is the guy to be looking at next year.
They won’t be a playoff contender until 2011-2012 at the earliest.
Best case scenario this season they win 30 games. That’s being extremely generous. Year after that 40 at the most, that’s not going to get them into the playoffs. So at least until the following season before they even sniff the playoffs.
Bryan, I think what Kahn said was that the team would significantly change in the next 16 months, not that they would make the playoffs. I think he’s smarter than to predict that.
Bryan — I don’t think I’ve backpedaled at all. Ellington isn’t that great of an athlete. Yes, he can jump. There’s more to atleticism than jumping, though.
Ellington/Brewer/Carney would be one of the three worst SG rotations in the league.
Yes, Jose, it would be nice if the Wolves could pay joventut more, but the NBA rules are very clear that it isn’t allowed.
Pointless - sorry I didn’t see your response to my last post sooner. What do I think his best interests are? I wouldn’t know, I’m not him or his parents. All I’m saying is that the few available comments on and from his parents make them sound like THEY are more interested in the money and location for themselves than for their son. What does Ricky want? To play in the NBA.
The eveidence I see looks like Dad screwed up and signed his kid to a contract to play for a team that is now bankrupt and trying to get the revenue they need to pay their debt in one lump sum from a star player who wants to leave, but has never been paid at a level that would allow him to pay the buyout. The fact he was drafted 5th on the NBA rookie salary scale makes using that money harder because there’s less of it to use.
Papa Rubio seems to have screwed up, Fegan isn’t necessarily helping at this point, and Ricky’s NBA dream is on hold.
If Rubio plays this year, I can easily see us being playoff ready in 2010. We have two great point guards now. We still have a lot of moves to make this summer. He have at least 4, possibly 5 picks in the draft next year.
If you were to add Jerome Jordan and a real quality wing player to the team as it is right now, we’re very very comparable to the Blazers. Maybe better, considering how superior Al is in the post to Aldridge, and definitely better if Rubio gets off to a fast start.
Folks - Are we really sweating how long Al Jefferson will be willing to “wait around” for The Wolves to be a championship contender?
Look, the dude is signed long-term and has a LOT to prove next year. Is he healthy? Can he improve his all-around game and make an All-Star game?
I’m a big, big fan of Al Jefferson, unlike the folks on this board who seem to think The Wolves’ biggest problem is the passing ability of our 23-11 stud. But Al has shown no signs of being a whiner (other than his annoying facial expressions) and he’s got a lot of hurdles to clear before he can even have the right to whine.
This isn’t Kobe Bryant, folks. Big Al doesn’t have the ability to start complaining about how long he’s gonna need to “wait around.”
Let’s all get on board with the long-term plan because that’s all we’ve got.
Brandon - hope for Jerome Jordan and Evan Turner. C and SG taken care of in two picks in 2010.
Shutup already Bryan. Don’t you have to lead the Thabeet fan club or something or are you in charge of the morons for life meeting today? Dufus
The Pacers are not resigning Marquis Daniels. Anyone think he’d be a good FA for the Wolves to look at? Better than resigning Carney?
Sean - I’m hoping the guy becomes our Eddie House…
Really Sean? Worse than Courtney Lee, Douglas-Roberts, and Jarvis Hayes? Worse than Anthony Parker, Jason kapono and Roko Ukic? Worse than Rasual Butler, Devin Brown and Mo Pete?
How about Ronnie Brewer, Morris Almond and CJ Miles? Delonte West, Wally Z, and Alexander Pavlovic? Eric Gordon, Ricky Davis and Fred Jones?
How about what we had at shooting guard last year? Is it worse than that?
Pick 1, PG…Rubio…Yeaaaay
Pick 2, PG…Jonny Flynn…Scratches head…Good player,but WTF
Pick 3, PG…Nooooooo! what are you doing?
All of a sudden, Jonny Flynn’s looking good, got a 12 or better pick next year (better draft class), and a bidding frenzy for Rubio is beginning. This Kahn guy might be wilier then the coyotee, or very lucky….
anybody think Jerry is going to do any reporting today? where is our fearless leader at??
If the Rubio pick could turn into a draft choice that lands Cole Aldrich next year, I’d be more than happy.
Foo-I like Big Al too, but do you think having better shooters on the perimeter (that are willing to shoot the ball, unlike Miller) will make him a better passer? Will those better shooters make him keep his head up so he can see the double/triple team coming and find a teamate? I hope so, but I doubt it.
It’s hard to tell what his passing ability is when the example we have to go on is last years team with inconsistent or poor shooters for him to pass out to. I don’t see any shooters other than Ellington (Gomes doesn’t count as a shooter IMO), so how and who is going to help Big Al improve his passing and drop the Black Hole nickname in the eyes of the fans?
What is with peoples’ obsession with Cole Aldrich? Don’t we have enough guys that do nothing but score and rebound and not jump already?
Not sure why Jerry hasn’t written on this yet, but Rubio posted that he is in Minny this morning, and to quote “I’m in Minnesota with my family discussing my buyout and career.”
Check it out here: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/pages/Ricky-Rubio/115806818131?ref=mf
Cole Aldrich a taller version of Kevin Love? Ridiculous comparison. Their games are so different, it’s ridiculous… let alone, one is a true PF, one is a true C.
Even if they were the same player, a “taller version of Kevin Love” gives you a legit center who rebounds a ton, has a well-rounded offensive game and can shoot out to 15-17 feet. So even if you want to make the “taller version of Kevin Love” argument, I ask what’s not to like?
That said, it’s still innaccurate and shallow to say they are the same player other than a couple of inches. Totally untrue.
Trie - Saw that too…missed 73 games in the last couple seasons…just got stiffed out of $7 Mil. Whats he gonna want ?
What need does he fill ?
At the risk of sounding like a homer/rube. I thought that Aldrich looked pretty athletic last year. You can say that he is nothing but a taller version of Love, but isn’t height(or lack of) probably the biggest knock on Love for the style of game that he plays.
Swan - Daniels can play SG, that’s really the only reason I mentioned him. His injuries do throw up a red flag, but the fact that he was due $7.3 mil and is coming off the highest scoring average of his career (granted not over a full 82 games) are probably going to set the bar a little high.
Just an option other than Carney for the Wolves SG depth need. Not really one I find feasible or like that much.
How are Aldrich and Love different. They score and rebound in the post. Love has some good court vision and passing, but basically that’s it. They score and rebound in the post.
Who would you rather have next to Al? Nick Collison or Tyson Chandler?
Bryan - Playoffs by 2010? You must be Rubio’s cousin. Again, even those who think Ricky is going to be great think he needs at least 2 seasons to learn. You think he’s going to step on the court day one and dominate? Get real. Same think with Flynn. Both are young, they aren’t going to be ready to be stars. Brandon Roy was a star from day one, and it still took the Blazers a couple years to make the playoffs.
Foo - I agree that Jefferson isn’t a whiner, but he saw what happened to KG. He doesn’t want to wait around forever. Yes, he’s singed long term, but that doesn’t mean his agent couldn’t start pressuring the Wolves to deal him. Players can force their way out.
Foo: Honestly, no, my first concern is not how long Jefferson is willing to wait. It’s how long _I’m_ willing to wait!
Let’s keep everything in perspective on Wayne Ellington. Why do we all have a sour taste in our mouth about Randy Foye? One reason - he was traded for Brandon Roy.
Wayne Ellington was the 28th overall pick in a dreadful draft. If he proves to be a rotational player who just comes in for 15-20 minutes per game as a sniper, then he was a GREAT value. Anything more than that and he’ll be one of the steals of the draft.
I’m not saying it will definitely happen, but I do think he’s got a great shot to be that late draft-pick he turns into a star/very good starter. He deferred to a lot of folks at UNC, but he’s got that elusive “NBA Skill” of shooting.
Given the minutes (which he will), he’s got a very good chance to be one of the steals of the 2009 draft.
Sorry Foo, your arguement is better than mine. I did’nt realize that it took me so long to type.
riki has not said anything negative about playig for minnesota in media. riki’s family obioulsy think about his future as a person not as a money-maker. his experience is years as a pro already.
Like I said above, I could see Ellington becoming a Rip Hamilton like player, I hope
Well, let’s be honest Foo….even by himself, Foye was average here at best. Scored 16ppg, yes, but shot deadfully inefficiently to do it. And he never really looked to pass the ball either.
Even comparing him to other “lesser” wings from that draft….Rudy Gay, Ronnie Brewer, Rajon Rondo….Foye comes out looking pretty average.
well then jerry must be hanging out at targetcenter waiting for some info
Jerry is probably chasing this already, but Rubio updated his facebook…
I’m in Minnesota with my family discussing my buyout and career.
What if it is a fake facebook page, lol, it could be me on there saying that
jose-I really do hope you’re right about his family thinking about his future in more than terms of money.
IMO, they need to realize that they are now on a worldwide stage where everything they say and do is going to be reported by someone somewhere. A comment about MN being “too cold”, or any implication about wanting to play in one place over another can cause unintentional ripples that reach farther than they did before.
And they need to get rid of Fegan and get an agent who at least projects that he cares more about his client than the money. Again, my OPINION of Fegan, not fact.
And to the idiot who said there is no difference between Aldrich and Love. Well let’s see Aldrich is listed at 7 ft. Love 6′8. Aldrich is a Center and Love a PF. So no I don’t see any difference at all. Sheesh Bryan you proved it is possible to get dumber by the day.
Bryan - C’mon, brother.
Here’s what you supplied - you said Cole Aldrich is a center who can score and rebound in the post.
I’ll add one more, he’s a much better defender than Kevin Love (who I think is acceptable defensively, though not good).
So here what you’ve got:
1. True Center.
2. True Center who can Score.
3. True Center who can Score & Rebound.
4. True Center who can Score & Rebound & Defend.
What’s your beef, my man? He does everything we need our next center to do. I read a comparison to another white center somewhere earlier today (I think Chad Ford) that Aldrich is Joel Przybilla With Scoring Ability.
What’s not to like?
Seriously, I think this board is a place where some folks just come to complain. A center who can score, rebound and defend? How many of those are in the NBA total? Do centers who can score, rebound and defend grow on trees to the tune that folks on this board need to scoff at that skill set and whine about it? What else do you need a starting center to do - shoot fire from his arse like William Wallace?
I must be missing something here.
What does Aldrich do that Love does not?
This is the place where Bryan tries to come to prove he is not an idiot. Unfortunately for us he is failing at that.
Well, there’s our difference then Foo, because I don’t think Aldrich is any better defensively than Love. He just looks better because he’s taller. I mean, he really struggled defensively in the tourney in particular, and just got it handed to him by Goran Suton in their eventual loss to Mich St.
If we were to swap Love for Aldrich, I’d be down with that. But to just add him….that seems incredibly redundant. I’d much rather have Jerome Jordan or someone like that.
And Bryan your bitterness at not drafting Lamebeet is getting old. Now you will rip every other center because of your obvious love affair with spaghetti legs. Pathetic.
where riki lives is hot the whole year so he was joking about the wheather . riki is going to play whit spanish team next september the european championship in polland, follow him and you will see how good he is. you will never think of trading him.
Bryan - There are 361 days for Jerome Jordan to prove he’s better than Cole Aldrich. But as of today, EVERY SINGLE NBA TEAM would probably have Cole Aldrich 15-20 picks ahead of Jerome Jordan on their draft boards.
Arenal - what Bryan complaining that The Wolves didn’t draft Hasheem Thabeet or are you slandering him? Last I checked, Hasheem Thabeet wasn’t available at No. 5.
Arenal were you an executive at GM, you always seem mad, lol, they are talking rubio on around the horn right now
Yes. I have an obsession with adding an athletic defender to our big man rotation. Anyone with common sense can see we have a need to fill there.
Foo the dude was whining about trading up to 2 to draft that stiff before the draft for weeks. I couldn’t make up that stupidity. He even admitted as much.
All 4 think he won’t be here next year, either a trade or stays in Spain this year, I wish we would just know and start to figure out what we have and what we need
But were you saying we should have drafted Hasheem Thabeet or was Arenal slandering you?
C-note I am laughing my ass off. See Bryan whining about how pathetic Aldrich would be at center, bashing Love, telling us how Corey Brewer and Thabeet will be stars in this league is down right funny, but retarded at the same time.
Oh I have no doubt teams would rather have Aldrich. Jerome Jordan will top out as a 10ppg scorer in the NBA at best. But for us, we already have two great post scorers and rebounders, as opposed to no athleticism, defense, or shotblocking. Doesn’t a guy like Jordan just make more sense?
I mean, it’s kind of like Rubio and Flynn. This blog just gets uppity about drafting two point guards all the time because they don’t fit together, but then I suggest we draft a guy who DOES fit with the team and I get flamed for it. What’s up with that?
Although I know Foo, you personally are all about best player available. Which might end up being a moot point, because if we have a pick high enough to take Aldrich, it’ll go to the Clippers anyway.
Watch them have Griffin, Randolph, Camby, Kaman and Aldrich on their roster next year. Talk about a big man overload.
I think Arenal and Bryan are the same person with a split personality disorder, lol
Bryan — You identified the other two tandems in the bottom three with the Nets and the Raptors.
But yes, I think Ellington/Brewer/Carney is worse than what we had last year. And I say that as someone who utterly despised the way Mike Miller played basketball last year, and never liked Randy Foye at the 2.
Anyone who relies on the 28th pick in any draft to play major minutes is delusional.
Sessions just got offered a contract but they are letting Villanueva hit free agency, I wish we had him, he was one of my favorite players because he thru some sick dunks down in his first year and in college and now he can shoot the 3 too. Too bad we have 12 PF’s
I was saying we should float the idea of trading Love for Thabeet. Not go through with it, just see if Memphis would be interested.
Arenal just has a man crush on Love, that’s all. I really don’t even care what he says anymore, it’s never anything useful, so why bother?
trade riki? former trainer of pau gasol said riki is the more talented player he has had in his teams. if riki didn’t want to go to nba he would have not go to the draft. it is going to depend of the interest of minnesota in having him playing for the team and the conditions minnesota can offer him for adapting to a new life in a different country
BTW… Hasheem Thabeet also isn’t athletic. I am a big fan of his, but if your contention is that we need an athletic center, then Hasheem Thabeet isn’t your guy.
Bryan doesn’t like posters who puts him in a box. He takes it personally and has fits about it. He sticks his head in the sand like an ostrich.
You never know Sean. A lot better players have been picked around #28, or a lot later.
I think to expect Ellington to come, hit shots, run the floor and finish in transition is reasonable, and right now that’s what we need our shooting guard to do.
Thabeet’s pretty athletic. He just doesn’t look it because of his height. One of the biggest pluses in his game that scouts noted is his mobility, quickness, and ability to really run the floor.
He can jump too. Not out of the gym, not like Dwight Howard. But I’d bet his ups are on part with a guy like Andrew Bynum’s. And when you’re 7′3″, how often do you really need to jump anyway.
But again, it’s not just Thabeet. It’s that type of player. If it’s Tyson Chandler than fine. If it’s Jerome Jordan than fine. We just have to get SOMEONE like that into the rotation.
Please forgive me, I tried to post this yesterday, and my internet must not have worked. So if someone could, I would like a list of who is on our Summer League team, and the Summer League in general. Please, and thanks. I want to see who we have, and where my guy Tyrese Rice went. Thanks everyone.
Someone should mention to Ricky that the Twin Cities metro area is over twice the size of his home city of Barcelona, and almost as large as Madrid.
As if you people weren’t already flogging yourselves with the MN inferiority complex, now apparently MN is the least desirable free agent desitnation in the NBA.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/steve_aschburner/06/29/free.agent.ranks/index.html
Also, with an athletic big like that, we could get a TON of points just having Rubio throw ally-oops. Think how many easy buckets the Hornets get having Chris Paul lob it up to Chandler.
Bryan - I’m a big fan of Jerome Jordan, but I’m a bigger fan of not reaching in the draft, either. I’d be OK if we passed on Aldrich to fill a bigger need with a better player (i.e. - if the best available player is a guy who could be a long-term starter at SG, then I’d take that player). Otherwise, give me the best available player who also fills a major need.
BTW, we don’t lose our 1st-rounder to LAC next year if we finish with one of the 10 worst records, which seems very probable. Can’t see us finishing outside of the worst 10 records.
Draft Express currently (361 days to 2010 Draft) has Alrich going No. 4 and the first center drafted; Jerome Jordan going No. 20.
If we can trade our Top-10 pick next year for a good, young, innexpensive SG and then get Soloman Alibe or Jerome Jordan later in the draft, then fine. But if we stand pat with our own draft pick, there’s no way you pass on Cole Aldrich.
Bryan — You can always find exceptions. But generally speaking, counting on your #28 pick to be a main cog is a recipe for disaster. The Wolves need to bolster that spot before training camp.
The Wolves should use an expiring contract to get some help there. The Wolves could look at Korver from Utah or Wilkins from the Thunder or Finley from the Spurs (if he picks up his option) as guys who could come in and stopgap for a year.
It seems that for many it has become a point of principal that the Wolves have to keep Rubio. Many seem to think a trade would mean an admission of failure. Pure luck or maybe T-Wolves luck” put us in a situation where Rubio fell to us. Hard not to take him. There were many “experts” split on how good Curry could be at that next level so he represents plenty of risk. If we end up trading Rubio and actually get value back with somebody who still fits within the long term strategy laid out by Kahn… then great. Collectively as Wolves fans we are just so accustomed to having our GM screw up most trades… its hard to imagine it could actually turn out to be a good thing. Maybe we all just need to chill and try to remain objective. Let this thing play out and we will have plenty of time to judge Kahn once he’s made all his moves.
Oh, no dude, don’t get me wrong. If we draft say, 6th overall again…well, then the pick goes to the Clippers. But if we were to keep it, we definitely should take Willie Warren or Evan Turner. Probably the only big man I’d reach for at that spot is Greg Monroe.
If we take Jerome Jordan, I was thinking we’d take him with the Denver or Utah picks…somewhere probably in the 15-20 range. I wasn’t at all saying we take Jordan at like, #4 or anything.
OK, folks, like it or not we’re on a 2-year plan. Tyson Chandler and Samuel Dalembert are ridiculously over-paid and will be free agents when that 2-year plan comes to pass.
Stop suggesting overpaid centers who will be gone by the time we’re ready to compete.
Two years from now if we have nothing at center and there’s a player like Chandler (but only if that playing can stay healhty unlike Chandler) sitting there for the taking and we have a shot to make a championship run if we get that player, then I’ll be on board with that.
But do you guys know how dumb it it sounds for a 30-win team, which is what The Wolves will be next year, to spend $10+ Million on an injury-prone center?
Does David Kahn seem to be the type of guy who is TRYING to crap away all of his cap space on a player who is:
A. Injury-Prone?
B. Overpaid?
C. A short-term solution at best?
It’s a 2-year plan, folks. Adding a guy who won’t be here in two years ain’t happening. So stop suggesting that we trade for Chandler or Dalembert.
Isn’t Jason Kidd a free agent, sing him to go with
Flynn
Rubio
Kidd
Ellington
Love
to have the shortest starting 5 ever, lol
Sean-
I don’t really see how Korver is an improvement over Ellington, other than he’s proven he can shoot in the NBA. He doesn’t jump any higher, doesn’t run any faster, doesn’t get to the FT line more often or defend better.
I mean, if you’re going to say we need to upgrade Ellington, shouldn’t you suggest someone who’s…I dunno….better?
Sean - For what reason does a team on a 2-year plan need to add a “stop-gap” solution at any position?
Are we trying to win games now or in two years from now and beyond?
Sean: I don’t see why we should get anyone at SG for next year to serve as a stopgap. If a player isn’t contributing to a long-term goal, what’s the point? The worse we are next year, the better the draft picks in 2010. I know we don’t want to develop (enhance) a culture of losing, but I don’t see someone like Korver preventing that from happening anyway. Really, what’s the harm in seeing what Ellington’s got. Best case: he’s the SOD. Worst case: we have a terrible record and a big need at SG. Well, we’re going to have a bad record anyway, so I say give ol’ Wayne a shot!
Kidd wants to go to a contender. He’s already listed Boston, LA, and Cleavland as his preferred destinations.
Hamilellington ftw
Ellington=Rip Hamilton…..I’m hoping, what a steal that would be, its hard to even imagine our team getting a steal in the draft after all the misery
I’d be OK with adding Kyle Korver or Damien Wilkins just because they are proven and young.
But they are not solutions to any problems. They are both good, rotational players… not franchise changers.
But, again, b/c they are young, proven and cheap, I’d be happy to have them.
But Michael Finley… terrible fit… aging, over-paid, not a part of the long-term solution.
Kidd would have to sign for very little if he wants to play with Kobe, they are spending all their money on Ariza, Odom and maybe Shannon Brown, although maybe he would because of his friendship with Kobe and do what Payton and Malone did
Bryan, I mean, if you’re going to say we need to upgrade the center position, shouldn’t you suggest someone who’s…I dunno….better than Lamebeet?
Actually Korver’s really not that cheap. If he picks up his player option, his contract this year is for over $5 mil.
If we make a long term investment in a shooting guard, I want it to be for a star. I don’t see any of those types in the draft next year (obviously that could change this season), but as it stands, we should look to trades or free agency to find a permanent solution to that.
Wonder how much Joe Johnson will want when he hits the FA market next summer?
Advocating the additions of folks like Dalembert, Chandler or Michael Finley is the same thing as not going to college out of HS because you can make more money right away if you just live in your Mom’s basement and work a construction job.
Yes, you can make $20,000 a year as a 19-year-old and not go to college. But if you live as a poor college kid for four years, you can make $50,000-$60,000 after college.
Adding an aging veteran or any other “stop-gap” at this point in The Wolves’ development would just set Minnesota back. And it’s a moot argument anyway because Kahn has committed to a 2-year plan and he’s not cutting off his nose to spite his face by adding short-term fixes.
Thabeet’s not on the team. Right now, since I see both Jefferson and Love as power forwards, we’re looking to upgrade from Etan Thomas.
Shouldn’t be too hard.
The Lakers can’t afford Kidd, no matter what angle you look at it from. They just can’t.
My guess is Kidd goes to the Cavs, replacing Delonte West at the shooting guard spot for a year or two.
The Cavs could have
Kidd
M. Williams
Lebron
Side show bob(A. Verajo)
Shaq
Even in rebuilding mode, I would argue you’re still obligated to put a team on the floor that is at least attempting to be competitive.
Kyle Korver would be a short-term upgrade. Looking at his on-court/off-court numbers, the Jazz were a better team at both ends of the floor when he was the court. He earned more defensive win shares playing 24 mpg last year than any 1/2/3 on the Timberwolves did.
Michael Finley makes $2.5 million in 2009-2010. No, he’s not part of the long-term picture. But he’s a veteran player with a championship pedigree who’s been a good citizen whereever he has played. He would be a good influence on a very young team.
Taylor talks about the Rubio situation.
Korver has one year left on his deal. Since the Jazz are seemingly ready to go with Ronnie Brewer as their starter they might be amenable to Craig Smith (to backup Millsap, as it seems they are going to let Boozer walk) and filler (Madsen?). It’s not as if we don’t have enough flotsam at forward…
A snipit from DX regarding Aldrich’s defensive and rebounding potential in The NBA:
>
>
>
“Where Aldrich really shines, though, is on the boards, ranking 5th in our database in rebounds per 40 minutes pace adjusted, taking advantage of his size, tremendous length, and hands, something that should translate well to the next level. He’s also a productive shot-blocker for that reason”
“Tremendous Length”… I like that for shot-blocking potential.
The same article said Aldrich plays “a physical style in the post.” I like it - long and physical. He’ll be a very good defensive center and other than Bryan on this board, I’ve never heard anything other than that.
I really doubt Finely would sign here. I mean, if he wouldn’t sign here when KG was on the team, no way in hell he’d sign here now. He’ll either return to the Spurs or retire.
Bryan — I’m not suggesting that we sign Finley as FA. I’m suggesting we trade for him if he picks up his player option. His usefulness in San Antonio is limited now that they have Jefferson. We have guys like Smith or Madsen who we could easily swap to the Spurs.
Sean - You said:
“Even in rebuilding mode, I would argue you’re still obligated to put a team on the floor that is at least attempting to be competitive.”
Would you still say that if it would hurt The Wolves’ long-term? If there is no long-term benefit?
Brendan Haywood is long and physical. Doesn’t make him a good defender.
And either way, he doesn’t play above the rim, which is really what we’re looking for here.
Give up assets for Finley? That’s an ever worse idea.
I’m not talking about Brendan Haywood… let’s talk about him some other time.
You’re still the only source that I’ve read that states Cole Aldrich isn’t going to be a good NBA defensive center.
Foo — None of the moves I’ve proposed would hurt the team long-term. I haven’t suggested picking up any multi-year contracts. I haven’t suggested trading any core players. If Wayne Ellington proves out to be the steal of the draft, you can easily play him in front of any of the guys I suggested acquiring.
All I’m saying is that you can’t go into the season with Wayne Ellington and Corey Brewer as your tandem at shooting guard. It’s not credible to place your faith in that position to a guy picked with the #28 pick and a guy coming off a major injury who hadn’t fully established himself even before the injury (not to mention the fact that Brewer is a natural 3).
Sean - who has the better chance to be part of our long-term solution? Wayne Ellington or, say, Michael Finley or Kyle Korver?
Foo — That sort of argument is an argument for never adding any sort of established player. There’s a reason it’s useful to have some veteran players on a team. Let’s just roll out 12 19-year old kids and see how that goes!
I’m not saying he won’t be good defensively. Just that a guy like Jerome Jordan will be better defensively, and will fit better too.
BTW… Hollinger on Marquis Daniels, who I was initially intrigued with as a lower-cost option for The Wolves when one of you brought him up.
on defense, “he appears both soft and somewhat disinterested.”
Hmmm… a guy who won’t ever be a star who is disinterested on defense, terrible in his perimeter shooting and injury-prone?
I’ll pass on that unless he wants the league minimum.
Sean, Finley’s player option is for $2.5 million. And c’mon, it’s San Antonio. They aren’t going to let him go for nothing.
At the least he would cost us Craig Smith or Bassy. More likely, he’d cost us a second rounder, meaning we basically traded Nick Calathes for him.
I think you both underestimate the viability of Ellington and Brewer, and overestimate the value a guy like Korver or Finley would add.
Throw 4 million a year at Gortat and roll with who we got at SG and maybe trade Smith before we lose him for nothing
Nobody is advocating going all young, Sean. No need to use hyperbole to attempt to prove your point.
I just happen to think both Ellington and Brewer are good players and have some upside. I have ZERO interest in impeding their development by cutting into their playing time by adding a veteran who does nothing to help us long-term.
C-Note… I love Marcin Gortat. He was excellent this post-season.
I’d give him the full mid-level exception and increase each year for a total of a 4-year contract.
yeah foo, if we let Smith and Thomas go next year then we will have Al, Love and Gortat at the 4 and 5 position and if we find a good C in the draft, thats fine because Gortat would only be costing us the exception and if we don’t find a C in next draft then draft a SG
I’d rather throw money at Ryan Hollins than Gortat, but I won’t raise hell about it since neither would be expensive.
It’s all probably shortsighted talk anyway. I’m sure Kahn is looking at trades we wouldn’t even think are viable right now. It’s going to be a busy summer to say the least.
Two things I’m most interested in right now are the summer league roster and list of coaching candidates.
Thankfully, Corey Brewer is as good as gone after this season. He will get Kahned just like Foye and Miller.
Somehow I doubt that…
I actually also like Ryan Hollins, but he’s probably only worth $1.0M or $1.5M on a short-term deal. But I do like him.
Gortat is a Top-15 NBA starter RIGHT NOW, though, so I think it will require the full exception to get him. He’s a pretty good and can defend any center in the league.
I doubt Kahn won’t pick up Brewer’s option
Isn’t the midlevel $5 Million ?
Bryan - doubt what? Lots of posts/topics around here!
Aldrich “just got it handed to him by Goran Suton in their eventual loss to Mich St.”??? Aldrich’s line was 17p, 14r, 4b and 2s. Suton was 20, 9, 1 and 5. A lot of Suton’s points were scored from outside - he was 1/3 on 3 pointers. KU and MSU played in Jan in East Lansing and Aldrich was 14, 11, 3 and 0. Suton was 6, 7, 0, and 1. For the season, Aldrich averaged 15 ppg, 11 rpg, and 3 bpg. He shot 60% from the field and 79% from the line playing 29+ mpg. He only played 8 mpg as a freshman, which had to be disappointing as he was a McDonald All American (although he never complained or threatened to transfer). But he was a key factor in their NCAA semi-final win against UNC and was dominant for a good stretch of the first half. If Aldrich had declared this year, would Memphis still have taken Thabeet? Aldrich is further along offensively, and I don’t recall any games where he was pushed around by 6′6″ post players on other teams.
I’m a former Minnesotan who now lives in Lawrence, so I get to watch every KU game. I don’t think the Wolves could go wrong selecting Aldrich with their first pick, but I could understand if the team decided there was a SG or SF too good to pass up - Warren, Henry, Turner, Stephenson, etc. I did watch Warren from time to time this year, but he was usually overshadowed by Griffin. I’ll be able to watch quite a bit of Henry this year - looking forward to that. For those of you who are curious, the KC Star had an interesting story about the Henry brothers in Sunday’s paper.
I doubt that Kahn ships out Brewer next year. Corey’s immensely popular, figures to get better on both sides of the ball, and is extremely low maintenance. If he fills out eve half his potential, he’s a guy you could put out there for 40 minutes, never call a play for, and still expect great results.
Brewer - knows his role, great team-glue guy, will be innexpensive for the long-term, will be a rotational player at worst/Bruce Brown type defensive-stopper starter at best.
He’ll be here for a while and will get his second NBA contract in Minnesota.
What happened to Lance Stephenson anyway? 6 months ago that kid was as hyped up as John Wall. Now it’s like he doesn’t even exist….
Well, I don’t think it’s likely they go into the season expecting big minutes for Wayne Ellington. If he earns it, great, but you have to have a different plan than that. If he just can’t play, which is true of a lot of late first rounders, then what?
I mean, it’s unfair to him if you run him out there every night when he simply isn’t prepared to compete.
To the extent that you have to work on your roster before you can answer that question about Ellington, you have to find someone that at least can credibly play NBA basketball.
eric in Madison - it’s going pretty far to just assume that Ellington can’t “credibly play NBA basketball” before he’s ever stepped onto the court.
Look, fact is that Wayne Ellington has a guaranteed, multi-year contract because he was drafted 28th overall in the first round. Quibble with that selection if you will. But that won’t change the fact that Wayne Ellington has a guaranteed, multi-year contract so The Wolves obviously value his upside (and hence, will definitely give him a chance to play major minutes).
Dahntay Jones is unrestriced this year…maybe try and pick him up ?
ESPN just posted an AP story regarding The Wolves and Rubio…
The lead?
“MINNEAPOLIS — Four days after Ricky Rubio was drafted by the Minnesota Timberwolves, it appears that the teenage Spanish sensation has become the most wanted man in the NBA.”
ANYBODY questioning the drafting of Ricky Rubio has no idea about supply-and-demand or leveraging assets.
This thing could play out in a lot of different ways, but my prediction is that David Kahn is going to get some NBA team to drastically over-pay for Ricky Rubio.
When has MN had this much sporting buzz, Favre and Rubio at the same time, sweet.
Foo–I like the pick. But my point stands. And I didn’t assume that Ellington couldn’t play, I said that many late first rounders can’t play, and you can’t just assume that he can play. You have to be able to put an NBA team on the floor. Hopefully, that includes Ellington.
Look, the guy taken 28th last year–Donte Greene, played in 55 games last year for a terrible Kings team, and averaged 13 minutes. And he was something of a success. The 29th and 30th picks played in a total of 13 games.
My point isn’t that I know Ellington can’t play–I hope he can. My point is, you can’t draft a guy 28th and plan for him to get major minutes.
Teams draft guys they like and don’t wind up playing them as rookies all the time.
I wanted to see Rubio play !
Hopefully Kahn uses it to get a substantial player, pick or two instead of just cap relief.
Swan - It sounds like Dahntay Jones is delusional about all the starts he got in Denver this year. He’s still just a defensive stopper with little to no offensive game.
I love perimeter defenders and think he’d fit well here based alone on his skill set, but I just think Jones is going to be on the market longer than he should because he thinks he’s worth way more than he actually is.
And that story never ends well. Even if The Wolves waited and got him on the cheap, the odds are high that he’d be a malcontent because he’ll always think he should have gotten a bigger contract.
eric in madison - You said:
“My point isn’t that I know Ellington can’t play–I hope he can. My point is, you can’t draft a guy 28th and plan for him to get major minutes.
Teams draft guys they like and don’t wind up playing them as rookies all the time.”
Most of the time, late 1st-round picks go to GREAT TEAMS. Remember, we used The Celtics’ No. 28 pick to get Ellington. In this case, a 28th pick is going to a very bad team with nobody else at No. 28.
There is no downside to giving him lots of minutes. There is no upside bringing in a stop-gap middle-of-the-road veteran to play those minutes.
Foo — I like Brewer, too. But the Wolves need Brewer to play at the 3, too. And you just can’t count on Ellington being ready to play major minutes. (As I said before, I fully endorse the pick. But he is the 28th pick in a weak draft!) The Wolves have to add some other piece(s) there.
There is utility in adding veteran players to a very young team. Adding a guy like Finley or Korver — guys on expiring contracts who have played on good teams and might be obtainable for players who aren’t going to be here next year anyway and aren’t going to contribute much here this year — isn’t going to hurt anything. If Ellington is playing better than the acquisition, you play him instead. It’s not that difficult.
The goodwill Kahn and the organization enjoy at the moment is going to go out the window in a hurry if this team wins 15 games next season. Rebuilding doesn’t mean you thrown the notion of being competitive out the window. You’re also doing nothing to help your other young players on this team if you’ve got a giant sucking hole at one position.
Foo–
I agree to an extent with the point you are making. And I understand that late picks usually go to good teams. (Though last year the 28 and 29 went to Sac and OKC respectively).
However, I disagree that there is no downside to playing Ellington major minutes. I hope he’s capable of doing so. Again, I liked that pick. But there is a decent chance that he simply isn’t ready or capable of playing in the NBA. That is a downside, even if you don’t care about winning. It’s brutal on him if he simply isn’t ready to ask him to do something he can’t do. Constant failure is unlikely to help his development. And, even if you don’t expect to win, there is, in my view, an obligation to put a representative team on the court.
By the way, I think they will need a third point guard even with both Rubio and Flynn, for similar reasons.
we have a 3rd and 4th PG in Bassy and Brown.
I have no reason to believe that is a real Ricky Rubio Facebook page. It was started only last week, has only 1700 fans and lists his affiliation as Minnesota Timberwolves, all of which would seem to be giveaways. I’ve left another message with his agent to confirm it’s fake, but he hasn’t returned calls since Thursday anyway and it’s not in his self-interest to do so, so I’m guessing I’ll keep leaving them and he’ll keep ignoring them. Kahn is out of the office all week, on the road interviewing coaches, so I’m pretty sure Ricky wasn’t in Minnesota today with his family talking about his future and his buyout and even more sure he wouldn’t post it on his Facebook page if he were. I think this thing is going to be a while in playing out. Next thing is to see if he accepts an offer from another European and buys out his current contract and if anything happens with that contract/buyout by Wednesday, July 1.
Swan–I hope they don’t keep Bassy. I really think it’s unfair to him. He’s a young guy still trying to establish his career. To put him behind two rookies like that…
Tough for him…work harder.
OK all you geniuses, as Sir Sid would say. I’ll go along with the draft. I doubt Rubio will ever show up, I hope I’m wrong. I’m willing to see what Ellington and Aldrich have to offer, and whether Flynn’s effervesent personality causes coaching problems. I stand by my statement on Curry, the boy can straight out shoot and can put it up fast and accurate before anybody else could reach him to beat him up. Just what is needed in the Target Center. The next big question remains the Coach…who can put this all together? I am a big fan of Nellie, despite his age.
ski — Don Nelson has a job currently and just forced the GM out, such that he’s essentially running the show there. Why would he leave that to come and work for Kahn?
Keep Don Nelson away from the Wolves !
I was hoping to see some write-ups regarding the legacy scouting/front office staff. Fred Hoiberg indicated he wanted to improve the up-tempo offense and the on-the ball defense. Rubio and Flynn do improve the team in those areas. So, was David Kahn relying heavily on input from Fred?
Rubio was in Minneapolis on Saturday afternoon. That is a fact.
Assume just for a moment Rubio actually does come and play here this season, what do you guys think our lineup will look like?
pg. Rubio
sg. Brewer
sf. Gomes
pf. Love
C. Jefferson
6. Flynn
7. Ellington
8. Telfair
Gomes and Brew wouldn’t both start.
So if he buysout with his current Europe Team he could go play for another Europe Team and then pay back his current Europe Team?
as you can tell i am very confused about this whole situation. could someone make some sense out of all of this
Nellie installs a sense of fun and verve in his teams in year one, and by the second season he’s rolling around like that proverbial loose cannon, ready to go through the side of the ship and sink everyone on board. No thanks.
Jerry, what’s that July 1 date? I’ve been trying not to follow every breathless report about which brand of shoe Rubio’s wearing, and the 7/1 date is something that’s slipped past me…. Is there some auspice of the future that’s due by then?
Can someone break down the picks we have for the next 2 drafts with their protection?
Kestrel, on July 1st his buyout officially increases significantly (I think by roughly $2 million, but I’m not entirely sure of the number). The thought was that he needed to make a deal prior to that.
Brandon
Next year,
Our pick belongs to the Clippers unless it’s in the top 10
We get Charlotte’s pick if it’s outside the top 12
We get Utah’s pick if it’s outside the top 17
bgustie, it’s hard to know what the lineup will look like because I think there’s more changes to be made before the season starts.
Didn’t Kahn basically say he was going to overhaul the roster a few times before the season began? Obviously trading away Foye and Miller in one swoop was a big part of that, but I think it means he plans to do more.
Just listening to offers that include Al Jefferson and Kevin Love should tell you that no one if guarenteed to be here if they can be switched out for more or better players. Plus you can’t expect a rookie No. 28 overall pick to be handed a starting job because he’s the ony SG on the roster.
My guess is that none of the free agents will be retained (sorry all you Carney fans), but no big names will be brought in this year (just guys on one-year contracts) and wait and make a big splash in free agency with a scorer like a Joe Johnson next year.
And I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s at least one more major trade that will happened (one of the following: Jefferson, Love, Rubio or Flynn will be traded).
But first things first. Kahn needs to find out what Rubio’s status is for next year before he can make any other moves.
The Wolves finally lucked out like the Blazers did for several years. Landed a potentially generational player at the fifth pick.
That being said, I think people are expecting way too much out of Flynn and Ellington. Their good, their not all-stars. Foo is usually at the top of his game on this blog but thinking Ellington (a 28th pick in a weak draft) is going to replace Foye without skipping a beat I think is improbable.
For all the love on Kevin Pritchard — Pritchard missed on Kevin Durant and potentially building a Western Conference dynasty. A lot of smart basketball people out there are starting to seriously suspect that Oden is a bust. For all the bluster about the Foye - Roy trade, Foye is a long way from being a bust.
This is a business with a lot of luck at the end of the day.
McHale is not an idiot, either. He was in the same position as Kahn as the revolutionary with Garnett and Marbury 12 years ago. After he got burned by Marbury his perspective entirely changed. If Rubio is not here next year, it is going to be a huge problem on fan and player morale. This team can’t afford not to sell tickets.
Kahn is imaginative but he’s taking huge risk/reward moves. The thing that still worries me most about this draft is that Sacremento, the team that would be a great fit for Rubio, declined.
Does anyone know when Rubio/Flynn jerseys will be made for the public to buy and would it even be worth buying a Rubio jersey?
Tyler — NBA teams are limited to contributing $500,000 towards Rubio’s buyout. European teams don’t have that limit. Rubio could arrange to have another European team buy out his deal in exchange for playing with that team for a year.
Jerry, do you think Brewer will be back after this season? The bozos here seem to think he will. I thought you mentioned you doubt it and I agree. What’s your take?
Sean,
While this is technically true, it would be a very expensive proposition. Most European teams couldn’t afford to do that, and I don’t know that any of them would.
Eric in Madison - Someone paid a buttload of money for Josh Childress and Brandon Jennings…you think Rubio won’t get an offer ?
I think Greg Monroe is a guy that we’ll be looking at awful hard next year and wouldn’t be surprised if the big debate was between he and Aldrich. Monroe and G-town struggled down the stretch this past season, but the kid looked really good the first half of the year, even putting up an impressive performance against Thabeet.
I thought about Marquis Daniels as well, but then I looked at his stats and saw that he shot about 20% from the arc last year. I would wager that such a percentage would put him last on the Wolves roster even given a starting backcourt of Rubio and Flynn next year.
No to Marquis Daniels!
Yes, maybe Mad Dog would shoot a better percentage from the arc?
that’s the answer i was hoping for Sean thanks. Also great point Swan Dizzle… Childress did nothing in the NBA and got a crap load of money….
so if a european team buys out his (Rubio) contract than he could pay back his previous European Team and then be back to us (Timberwolves) in 1 year?
If Brewer can prove he can stay healthy then he will probably be back if he struggles and then gets hurt, that may be it for him here.
It all depends on if Brewer’s healthy and how he plays. The injury actually might have made Kahn give him a chance rather than writing him off immediately because McHale drafted him. Although Foye was traded because Kahn made up his mind Foye wasn’t worth that $4.8 million qualifying offer he was due next summer.
Kahn drafting Rubio was a great move. If he can convince him to play here fans will fill the seats to watch him….if he can’t get him to play here he can trade him for two starters.
I HAVE SPOKEN!
I HAVE LISTENED
Jerry WHERE ya AT?
C’Mon, Mike B… I never said Wayne Ellington is going to replace Randy Foye “without skipping a beat.” I believe I said his upside is similar to what Foye’s was…
C’Mon, dog.
The Wolves will need a SG or two. I made a list of guys that were mostly young enough, have some experience, and may be obtainable. The Wolves will need to give someone a chance besides Ellington or trade for someone that they can give a chance like a Belinelli.
I wouldn’t be to picky at this point about whether the guy plays great defense, gets to the line enough, etc. They need someone with a pulse. By dumping Foye and Miller and only getting Flynn at this point it looks like it could be a long year.
Free agent SG/combo guards worth mentioning (barely): Flip Murray, Josh Childress, Dahntay Jones, Von Wafer, Marquis Daniels, Stephen Graham, Shannon Brown, Luther Head, Maurice Ager, Desmond Mason, Kareem Rush, Matt Barnes, Ime Udoka, Carlos Delfino, Joey Graham, Anthony Parker, Juan Dixon.
Sean - OK, fine. Let’s just say that I’m in the mood to bit on your earlier snipit:
“Adding a guy like Finley or Korver — guys on expiring contracts who have played on good teams and might be obtainable for players who aren’t going to be here next year anyway and aren’t going to contribute much here this year — isn’t going to hurt anything.”
What players on our roster who “aren’t going to be here next year anyway” and “aren’t going o contribute much here this year” are San Antonio and Utah just DYING to have to the tune of giving up key rotational players like Finley and Korver. Which players that fit your description on The Wolves roster are going to help a playoff team’s post-season efforts more than Michael Finley and Kyle Korver?
I just want to ask that you see these thoughts through to practicality… which players would San Antonio or Utah want (that fit your description from your 6:47 p.m. post) for Finley or Korver?
Are you a fantasy basketball player, by chance?
bert - I like the list. Guys I’d be cool with (on manageable contracts only) are Josh Childress, Dahntay Jones and Anthony Parker.
Candace Parker’s big bro is already 34, but I love his game. Versatile, great defender, very intelligent.
Yo Jerry,
The AP story said that GM’s were flooding Kahn with offers for Rubio. Do you think or know if that is true?
OH and a little Summer League 411.
Paul Harris heading to…MINNESOTA, will reunite with Jonny Flynn
http://blog.syracuse.com/orange-segment/2009/06/paul_harris_heading_tominnesot.html
Side note- is Sheldan Williams really married to Candace Parker, if he is, I wonder how he feels being the 2nd best player in that relationship, lol
eric in Madison - Regarding your post from 6:55 p.m.
Do you really think that Wayne Ellington is going to experience “Constant failure?”
He’ll definitely have highs and lows, but your statement was basically assuming failure (though I guess I’m assuming that wasn’t your intent).
Look, The Wolves are obviously going to balance out their roster before training camp. They aren’t going to have one SG and 17 PFs… but Ellington is going to get major minutes and he absolutely should.
I can’t see how Ellington will be in over his head in The NBA. He hits a ton of shots, was the Final Four MVP and played for three years in a great program and conference. The guy isn’t going to be overwhelmed by The NBA.
This isn’t to say that he’ll be a rousing success in The NBA, but he’s not going to be overwhelmed.
“Kahn is imaginative but he’s taking huge risk/reward moves.”
As he must. Taking “safe bets” is not going to reshape this roster into a contender.
And there’s no such thing as a safe bet in the draft anyways.
Whack - I like Paul Harris. They say he’s a PF in a 6-4 body, but that dude can play.
I don’t think he’ll be much of a player in The NBA.
Gendo - nice take.
“Safe Bets” lead to marginal starters and 6th-men… we’ve already danced that dance.
Foo, I agree Harris is probably a long shot. I like his hops though. Gives Flynn somebody familiar to ball with in the Summer League.
You guys should all click on that Paul Harris/Syracuse link that Whack posted at 10:15 p.m. - it’s got a great picture at the bottom of 5-11 Jonny Flynn pinning one of Paul Harris’ layup attempts about 15″ up on the back-board.
Athleticism on the perimeter is a huge need for The Wolves… Jonny’s got plenty.
Flynn vertical - 40″; Ellington vertical 38″.
I think flooding it may be overstating, but teams are calling, don’t know what exactly it’s up to now. Teams that apparently are interested most don’t have a lot to offer: Knicks? The Rockets? Aaron Brooks (along with Shane Battier) is a point guard, too, isn’t he? I don’t think Kahn has any intention of trading him, at least not in the near future. If it ever came to that, I’d think a team like the Clippers (young players like Eric Gordon, Al Thornton, maybe Chris Kaman and that future No. 1 the Wolves owe them) would be more likely.
And yes Shelden and Candace are married and just had a baby this spring. Think she can post him up?
Foo,
I like the idea of putting players in the right position, and then upgrade from there because I want to see players playing in the right spot.
Watching Al Jefferson as the center is just not fun. Watching him and Love on the court together means there are going to be a lot of dunks for the other team.
Foo - that’s right about Flynn.
What is Aschburner’s problem with Sota? What a joke of an article. Lake Erie is flamable and Cleveland is a destination? Lebron will leave and why would potential stars want to play second fiddle (or third fiddle with Shaq) to Lebron.
Don’t these NBA writers (and players) know that you buy low (Sota) and sell high (Cleveland)?
Here’s what Cleveland has to offer:
http://blog.syracuse.com/orange-segment/2009/06/large_JonnyblocksPaul.jpg
Johnny Flynn= future dunk champion. Will be fun watching him on defense.
Thanks for the update Jerry. I think it will take a blockbuster for Kahn to trade his rights.
Did anybody see this on the “Official Ricky Rubio Facebook” page? When “Ricky” made a comment to thank somebody he said “gracious” ?
whatever happend to Pops Mensuebonsu?
obviously i don’t know how to spell his name but he played for the wolves last year in the summer league and did decent.
What is up with him now where is he at?
Yes, Jerry. It’s obviously a fake (like most Facebook celebrity pages, I imagine). But, I became a fan anyway because I’m a Rubio fan.
Oops. I messed up my blog name. . .
Steve Ascburner’s article is surprising on several counts. (1) Why is it that Rubio worked out for one team and one team only and that was Sacramento? Not New York, Miami, Orlando, you get the idea. Last I checked Sacramento hasn’t set the world on fire in the playoffs of late, have gone through a succession of coaches, many of the critera Aschburner cites as being undesirable teams (2) Aschburner was once a local writer and was on the bandwagon for KG to find a new home. Obviously, he must of had a few bad meals in town. (3) NBA players actually spend less time in the home of their team than one would expect. They travel heavily during the season, our winters, and during the off season make their homes where they want. No question the history of fielding teams with losing records is a downer, but all the other factors have to be taken in perspective.
Right now our roster looks like
Center - Etan Thomas - A.D.D.Dog
PF - Blackhole, Love, Smith, Songolia, Pecherov, Cardinal,
SF - Gomes, (Brewer)
SG - Ellington (Brewer)
PG - “Rubio”, Flynn, Telfair, Brown.
They need to pick up a SF, SG, and Center probably out of the Summer League to actually have a real roster if they don’t make a trade.
Playing players out of position does not help them develop into better ball players in my opinion. I mean look how Jefferson is incapable of passing the ball. He stunts the growth of everyone when he’s playing.
Yeah I saw that page too and it thru me off that it said Timberwolves on there without him signing a contract and the spanish that was typed seemed off, I took 2 years of Spanish and 1 year of World Language and it just seemed like the type of Spanish that I would type as a rookie
Hey, that’s my facebook page, man.
Gates BBQ-Thanks for the info about the possible 2010 draftees.65 is a bad age to learn the computer.Bryan-What’s this anything you can post i can post better mentality all about? Mommy calling with your warm milk and will tuck you into bed so you can dream about what a great b-ball player you are!
If Flynn and Rubio are both on that roster, Flynn isn’t behind Rubio on the depth chart. He’s the starter at “shooting” guard.
Also, Asch still lives here.
C-Note - What is “World Language”?
So maybe Asch is afflicted with the Sota self-loathing/inferiority complex as well?
And for those who doubt that a Rubio/Flynn/Brewer combo can’t play D, look at this Abbott post about long defenders against fast ones vs. fast ones vs. fast ones:
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-41-162/Who-Can-Guard-Tony-Parker-.html
I miss Aschy… Souhan isn’t exactly the most talented writer in the world though sometimes he has enjoyable rants.
And yes, I consider Flynn to be “long” with his 6′4″ wingspan and his 40′ vertical leap. Look at that image of him rejecting Paul Harris as evidence.
Kahn won’t be trading Rubio for a while. I think he would rather just eat the pick than trade him for garbage. He doesn’t seem like the kind of person who would panic and make a dumb trade. Besides if we wait we can see how the rest of the roster plays, leaving us with a better idea of what we need.
The only thing entertaining about Souhan is how many people he suckers in with his blatant trolling.
He produces a somewhat worthwhile thought about once every ten articles or so, but generally it’s piss-poor Skip Bayless knockoff material.
Jim, tone it down a little bit if you want it to be believable.
This is my ideal way for the next couple years to play out… I would like Rubio to stay over seas, so we qcan see what Flynn can do running the squad. Hopefully he succeeds. That way, Rubios trade value skyrockets due to lack of PGs in next seasons draft. We trade him for a young, proven SF that can score (Rudy Gay/Josh Smith). Then we make a decision on either Big Al or K-Love (Al probably would bring more, but I think we should keep him). So lets say we trade Love, I think we should just aim for something centered around a lottery pick. Unfortunately, we hope we play poorly enough to pick in the top 5. So with our picks, and possibly some trading up, we can take Cole Aldrich and Xavier Henry! I think those 2 would be a great fit because they will already have a season under their belt in Kansas. Aldrich is our dominating center we need, and Henry is our scoring SG. So that leaves us with PG - Flynn, SG - Henry, SF - Gay/Smith, PF - Jefferson, C - Aldrich. That team looks playoff bound that year or next…
I’d rather keep Rubio and Flynn together if at all possible. I think Kahn is on to something here and if it works it would give the Wolves a unique ability to attack defenses.
So you keep Flynn and Rubio together with Flynn guarding the 1, and Rubio guarding the 2, you keep Baby Huey and Jefferson at the 4/5 respectively and you pursue a scoring SF with your draft assets next year. Someone like Devin Ebanks.
If you go after Ebanks (assuming he ends up the high lottery pick I’m expecting) then you use some combination of the two later first round picks and tradable assets (expiring contracts, Pekovic, etc to get a defensive center like Solomon Alabi.
G: Rubio / Telfair
G: Flynn / Ellington
C: Jefferson / Alabi
F: Love / Gomes / Songalia
F: Ebanks / Brewer
And that’s before taking free-agency into account where they could look for short to mid term options at the 3 and 5.
I read the blog a lot, but I’ve never posted before. Jerry doesn’t know anything we don’t(I can’t believe he get’s paid for this). I don’t know why he’s considered an “insider”. Anyway, if I were Kahn, I’d never trade Rubio. Let him wait til he’s 23 if he wants to, we control him until then. If he really wants to wait that long, let him rot. Obviously he’s not as genuine as he seems when he says “I’d play for free”. At 18 years old he should know what he wants to do. His parents should let him make up his own mind, instead of trying to profit from their son’s abilities, I find that disgusting. And as bad as the T’Wolves have been in recent years, we haven’t been nearly as pathetic as the Knicks. So Ricky, shut up and suit up.
Also, “Bryan” is a complete idiot. Why doesn’t everyone just ignore him? And what kind of a name is “Facial”? That’s just gross.
i just love how some of these new people that have been posting on here for the past couple days seem to know so little about pro basketball and would much rather just rip the organization for drafting a guy they every right to draft. stop whining cuz the guy wasn’t in Minney at the presser, stop whining because he may stay in Spain. for crying out loud. Kahn knew the consequences of drafting RR. He wasn’t suppose to get past Sacramento…but for what ever reason Dan Fegan(Rubio’s agent) didn’t do a good enough sales job for them to take him. Do you think Kahn wanted to be the GM to pass on RR twice? how would that sit for the Wolves in the NBA for the next 15yrs? come on people stop complaining.
free agency starts in 18hrs and there are a couple names that I have seen as possible free agents that people haven’t thought of yet and maybe we should give a couple of these guys a look. first guy:
Dahntay Jones: Denver, 7yrs experience, he’s going to be 29, he’s a solid defender, would be able to contribute offensively more here than he did in Denver and I don’t think he would be asking for more than a mid-level exemption.
Trevor Ariza: now before you guys jump down my throat and think there is no way Ariza would go from being on a championship team to a team rebuilding, keep this in mind…every year, every sport there is a guy on a championship team that contributes to a degree that no one else would have thought and every year that guy will opt out and go and play for a struggling team, yeah for more money and hopefully for a staring roll. Either Ariza or Odom are out in LA, we all know that. the lakers can’t keep both guys and there aren’t many teams that can afford to take a guy for more than a mid-level…well the wolves can and he might be that guy.
Malape - not a good first impression. Find my last post, and you are its focus.
Craig - you ask what is stupid (my take) about someone saying Rubio doesn’t want to be here, when it’s on the record? What’s stupid is that it’s not an argument for anything. ANYBODY in Rubio’s position would not want the scenario he ended up in. He was picked fifth (tons less money), he’s going to a medium market (endorsements) that’s not as easy to travel to (family?), his team is crap and years away from winning, the “best” pure US point guard was also picked by Minny, and everyone, and everyone asks him how he feels about going to the frozen tundra of Minnesota. You owe $6 mil.
You’ve been told by your monster agent that this scenario (the worst case) wouldn’t happen. How would you react in the first few hours after this happened, especially as an honest 18 yr old? As far as I’m concerned, he’s reacted better than many might have. So Craig, the reason why it’s stupid is because it’s irrelavent and has nothing to do with who he is.
Foo - your posts are well thought out, or maybe I just agree with you…probably both. Your post not far above my last one is the key one for anti-Rubio folks to read.
re: stop-gap guys: Folks, we aren’t winning. If in 2010-11 we approach 40 wins, then we have the right to be excited. By the time we’re close, we’re going to be dealing with Al’s new contract and deciding the value of Love, which is suspect at the level of his next contract.
This is a process that requires constant nuturing of talent and cap by Kahn. Why bring in guys who, at best, mess up the number of lottery balls you get? A stop-gap at center is Etan Thomas or anyone who might be 7 ft via FA at the minimum salary.
All that matters is that three seasons from now we contend for a playoff spot. If we don’t, well, that wouldn’t be a shocker. This isn’t an exact science, and pretty much everything needs to go right.
re: Ellington: I suppose he could be really good down the road in the best case scenario. Somebody defended his talent by saying stars have been picked at 28 or lower. That’s anecdotal evidence and quite contrary to making a good argument. Actually, it’s more the “exception that proves the rule” kind of thing. Using this logic actually makes a better argument for the other side.
Besides, even if you use as evidence Tony Parker at 28 and decide that is good enough to defend your argument, don’t forget it was San Antonio doing the picking, and whereas their scouting is the best, our scouting has seemingly shown itself to be near the worst.
Ellington will get a chance to prove himself. It’s possible he might be a good get. More likely, his stint in the NBA will be a short one, extended only by his team’s dearth of talent.
a couple other guys that would just be cool to see in a Wolves uni, that probably never would but I’ll try and justify it
Allen Iverson: the former #1 overall is an UFA and probably has no suiters for his deteriorating skills and enigmatic behavior. the rumor mill on some sites think it might be time for AI to retire since no team is going to pay the kind of money he wants to be paid for the type of game that he brings. you can’t question that AI is probably the toughest little guy in NBA history. he’s a better option of playing the off guard spot than anyone the wolve currently have on the roster.
Rasheed Wallace, he’s a 7 footer, can defend guys out on the perimeter and can block shots in the post. offensively he can still shoot and play w/ his back to the basket or face up and take people to the basket. now why would he want to play for the wolves? well because he’s played for just about every other team you can think of, why not us.
Twinstalker - I read your last post, as you suggested, and I have no idea what you’re talking about. I’m not “anti-Rubio”, I want him to play for us, and I would force him to(we can). I also believe Kahn did the right thing in drafting him, regardless of how it turns out, so I’m not “anti-Kahn” either. As far as my “first impression” goes, I really could care less what you nerds think, I’m just expressing my thoughts.
So go f u c k yourself.
malape, it’s not a situation of rubio shutting up and suiting up. he hasn’t said anything in 5 days. haven’t heard anything from a Rubio other than his father coming out on Saturday w/ unconfirmed reports of RR receiving offers to play in Turkey and for Real Madrid so that doesn’t necessarily apply here. His agent hasn’t even said anything for his part.
and i don’t think its fair to rip Jerry, he didn’t do anything to you…he hasn’t over stepped his boundaries, he doesn’t come out w/ erroneous info…so an agent won’t return his calls and DKahn responds w/ “NO Comment” what do you want him to do? put a knive to a guys throat? your expectations are a bit ridiculous.
twinstalker’s main point is that there are a lot of new posters on here, and I’ve said it a lot as well, that just blurt stuff out and don’t sound real informed or real pro basketball smart.
and now you’ve confirmed it by cussing…alright Jerry…time to block malape.
LOL. Yep, I sort of caught it with his first posts, wondered whether I was wrong, then, nope, I was right on.
As far as I’m concerned (see my post a couple ago) Rubio’s done zero wrong or even close. That’s why I keep referring to people arguing points with baseless “facts.”
I am so excited to get the guy, moreso knowing that even if it’s not us, he’s an unbelievably valuable commodity, whose stock will only rise while he’s not with us.
I’m not even sure he’s the best option for the Wolves. His value may be much more in trade. It doesn’t matter, though. He’s a MAJOR commodity. Kahn was lucky (though this scenario was a definite possibility), and he’s been brilliant in handling it. Getting that 5th pick was key, and he made it happen. Eat your heart out, Washington.
re: Aldrich: I’m a little suspect on him, but that may change. I think he’s a monster at the college level this coming year, especially with Collins (smart move there, btw, to stay) to open things up for him. As of now, I want him, but it’s not based enough on my scouting of him for NBA abilities. It’s more that he’s a guy from here and he’s got lots of college level talent.
Tyler - You said:
“whatever happend to Pops Mensuebonsu?
obviously i don’t know how to spell his name but he played for the wolves last year in the summer league and did decent.
What is up with him now where is he at?”
He’s another 3rd-stringer at best like Bobby Brown, Rodney Carney and Ben Woodside. Yawn… I like all those guys, but I’m still baffled at how opinionated som many folks are on this board about folks who legitimately should never play in a game, even if they do somehow find their way to an NBA roster.
Malape - what kind of name is that? A facial is either a skin care treatment or what happens when you get your shot put back in your face on the basketball court by a defender.
The third possible definition didn’t even enter my mind when I chose the name. Please get your mind out of the gutter and clean up your language on the board. Children might be reading.
i found this on a Spanish New Site…there are some translation issues but some of you are smart and will be able to work through it. it’s from yesterday.
Ricky Blond assured to its arrival to Spain after the Minessota Timberwolves him to choose in fifth position in the ‘draft’, that there are possibilities that remain in Europe. Besides, it assured to feel “pride” by the interest of the Real Madrid in its acquisition although did not want to give more importance to that interest.
It seems that the base only has two options, to give the leap to the NBA or to continue a year more in Badalona, club in which has grown and to which denounced for the high price of its cancellation clause. “We will look at what process we have to continue and to see if speaking with the Joventut we arrive at an agreement. This case has been carried to an extreme, is not as serious as thinks the people”, indicated.
The future of Blonde is very uncertain, but now, recently arrived from the United States, underlined that will speak with their agent to see “that road” they continue. What has very clear the international one is that to be remained in Europe would not be a step behind. “Neither much less, still it would prepare me more to give the leap to the NBA. I believe that I am prepared but if I should remain here and to win more experience also is well”, added.
Despite the unknown quantity of its future, the next undershirt that will dress be the red one of the selection since Blond has been called for Sergio Scariolo to dispute the next one Eurobasket of Poland
Thanks, Wow. It’s all good. Either he’s here this year or he’s here next year. Either is fine.
Foo — Let’s take them one by one.
Korver: Utah has seemingly committed to Ronnie Brewer as their starter at shooting guard and C.J. Miles is developing into an OK player. Meanwhile, the team could very easily lose two out of Boozer, Millsap, and Okur. They don’t have much depth at the PF/C. We have a lot of cheap depth at those spots, and Korver could be considered expendable.
Finley: He’s now fourth on the 2/3 depth chart in San Antonio behind Jefferson, Ginobli, and Mason. Rumors have indicated the Spurs would not be disappointed if Finley chose not to pick up his player option. It’s uncertain whether or not Drew Gooden will be back. Again, they could be a potential market for one of our excess expirings.
And, no, I’m not a fantasy basketball player.
sean, korver already signed his tender to play w/ utah next year
here is the spanish news site. you’ll have to find a way to translate it though, it’s all in spanish…
http://www.marca.com/baloncesto.html
wow — Korver had a player option that he took. He can be traded, though.
yeah…he can always be traded.
If rubio comes here, we have no problem with the 2 guard spot as both he and Flynn will start. If not, I do not see why we need to sign someone when we can give the minutes to Brewer and Ellington - we ARE a young team, and letting guys like Brewer improve and Ellington take his knocks is what we are about. Brewer can get more minutes and Gomes can be the primary 3 with Brewer to back him up. And we can go small and run with both Telfair and Flynn on the floor.
I’d rather we not sign anyone; we still have enough pieces in draft picks and expirings to get a veteran instead. someone I like is Al Harrington from the Knicks. we won’t give them rubio, but could give them other pieces. yes he makes a lot, but he comes off the books next year and could help at the 3 and with going small - he’s a much better ‘big’ for that than Gomes, who has no inside game. Possibly a Cardinal, Smith and Draft pick for him.
I know that Al is working hard, but one thing I want to see is Love hit the gym and develop some quickness - especially laterally. what I mean is I’d like to see if he can make it at the 3 once in awhile. He, Al and Thomas could make a very good rebounding forward team and could compensate for smaller perimeter guys like flynn, telfair and ellington.
Also, if we do sign anyone, I like a big like Gortat. he’d be cheap and would give us quality minutes at the C along with Thomas so Al can play at his position.
Ellington isn’t “smaller” he’s 6′6″ thats not a small 2 guard
Well Malape is right about that tool Bryan. He comes off as a bitter jerk who got kicked off his neighborhood pickup games because he a major loser. Kind of like his hero to zero Lamebeet.
Jerry, what are you working on today? any idea when we’ll get a new thread so we can go back to the topic of ricky rubio??
wow…WOW - You’re absolutely right about Ricky Rubio’s agent, Dan Fegan.
He is the absolute biggest culprit in this whole mess and The Timberwolves are the benefactor.
For at least 6-8 months, Ricky Rubio was considered The No. 2 prospect in the 2009 Draft and somehow his guy fell to No. 5.
As an agent, it’s great to try to steer your client to the most desirable destination, but IMO Fegan took it way too far and Memphis, OKC and Sacramento were scared off by contract/signability/buy-out issues.
So if Fegan is looking for somebody to blame for the No. 2 prospect sliding all the way to No. 5, he needs to blame himself.
Agents are there to provide opportunities for their clients and to make them the most money possible. In this case, Fegan literally cost his client $5M over the life of his rookie contract.
Why Dan Fegan is still on Rubio’s payroll is beyond me.
Zgoda was on espnradio…good job jerry. you sounded good
wow…WOW - no way is Dahntay Jones worth the mid-level exception.
I love perimeter defenders and I still believe that’s our biggest weakness, but there’s no way that Dahntay Jones is worth more than $2.5M per. If he wants that on a 3-year contract then great.
He could be Wayne Ellington’s foil. Ellington can score, but will struggle to defend. Dahntay Jones will defend at a high-level, but struggles offensively.
The last thing we need to do is get into a long-term, over-pricey Trenton Hassell situation again.
But, to your point, I’d like to have Dahntay Jones as a situational defender-type. At the 1-2-3 positions, we’d have a GREAT defense with Flynn-Dahntay Jones-Corey Brewer, but I just don’t believe you can have Jones and Brewer both logging big minutes on the offensive end. But I’d like to have them at our disposal for defensive-matchup needs. I’d offer Dahntay Jones 2 years, $5M total contract with a team option and wouldn’t get too carried away beyond that.
yeah foo, thats why i said all that. Dan Fegan’s reputation is starting to work against him and the economic downturn in the US is the main reason. teams aren’t going to answer their phones when he calls. I do think there will be an agent change for Rubio, when that happens is anyones guess though
foo, my point to Jones was that he was never asked to be counted on offensively in Denver, so IMO you can’t count him out as far as being capable offensively.
but i like the rest of what you said…and maybe not the full mid level exemption…who knows
Malape - OK, so you “really could care less” about what folks on this board think about you… More importantly, you just haven’t brought much substance to the board.
Coming on for the first time ever and ripping Jerry Zgoda and a regular-contributor like Bryan doesn’t add much to the board.
It’s not that you don’t have the right to blast somebody if that’s what excites you, but it’s just a very boring, shallow, non-contributing rant that doesn’t have any substance.
If you’re interested in posting comments with little to no substance, then by all means, proceed…
Sean - I appreciate your response from 8:31 this morning, but you still didn’t answer my question from last night when I posted the following:
“What players on our roster who “aren’t going to be here next year anyway” and “aren’t going to contribute much here this year” are San Antonio and Utah just DYING to have to the tune of giving up key rotational players like Finley and Korver?
Which players that fit your description on The Wolves roster are going to help a playoff team’s post-season efforts more than Michael Finley and Kyle Korver?”
>
>
So I’ll reiterate this way… which players on our roster currently would you list as (in your words) “aren’t going to be here next year anyway” and “aren’t going to contribute much here this year”?
Then, I’ll request that you take that simple task to the next level and tell the board why you think Utah or San Antonio would want those players for Korver or Finley.
I’m just challenging you to see your thoughts all the way through to practicality.
So, please, proceed.
The Bucks allowed Villaneuva to become a free agent.
Here we go folks… the new economy of the NBA starts tomorrow. I doubt we’re going to see any overpaying out there.
Dahntay Jones wasn’t counted on offensively in Denver because he doesn’t have much to offer on that side of the ball.
If he could round out an offensive niche like Bruce Bowen (high% 3-point shooter) or Corey Brewer (good slasher/finisher in penetration), then he may be a solid player. But Denver had so much scoring at other positions that I believe George Karl felt he could deal with starting a career bench-warmer like Dahntay Jones just because of his defensive contribution.
Who cares if Dahntay Jones can score ?! Defense (boom boom) Defense (boom boom) Defense !
Wow, what did Jerry say on espn radio?
yes foo. exactly…
Regarding Villanueva -
“Scouting report: Villanueva is a lazy, soft defender whose effort and mental acuity are often found wanting. As a help defender, his support is nonexistent; as an on-ball defender, he tends to play too close to his man and allow drives. He also makes baffling blunders, like charging in to crash the offensive boards when he’s the only guy back. The Bucks were a horrible defensive team last year to begin with, yet were vastly worse (5.5 points per 48 minutes more) with Villanueva on the court.” from Hollinger
no thanks…
And I am not seeing why everyone is talking about options at the 2. what is wrong with giving ellington and Brewer (and even Flynn with Telfair or Brown on the floor) big minutes? we are young, and probably won’t contend; I’d rather trade assets or spend money on positions of need or for more draft picks. Guys like Jones (too 1-Dimensional), Korver (shoots 3’s but thats it; he’s too slow and can’t jump), and Finley (getting older, not much of a defender).
well, jerry probably knows more than I, only caught part of it. but it’s pretty much to the toon of his article today, the wolves are going to be patient w/ Ricky, they can afford to be patient w/ Ricky and the phones at targetcenter are ringing off the hook. and also that Kahn probably still has no intention of trading RR and still plans to use him in the back court w/ Flynn.
medschoolmatt - I’m with you on the SG spot… I’d rather go with exactly what we’ve got and fill in any of the remaining 15 roster spots with undrafted free agents and D-Leaguers.
I have no interest in a short-term fix who just serve to give us 1-2 more wins this year, impede the development of our young pieces by stealing playing time and depart after one meaningless season.
Like it or not, if Kahn wanted to compete at all this year, he would have kept McHale. By axing McHale and moving Foye and Miller, Kahn has stated loud and clear that he’s all about 2-3 years from now… and that’s the best way to go.
That’s an AP article, not a Jerry article.
Swan - I like Dahntay Jones for a role. Two questions:
1. What do you think his role should be here?
2. What type of contract would you offer him?
Foo -
1) 1st or 2nd string SG (or 2 / 3 if Rubio is here)…part of a sweet perimeter D team that thrives off of Love & Al’s rebounding abilities and fast breaking.
2) 3 years - $7 Mil tops.
Swan
if he’d do a 2 year with a 3rd year option at 2-3 mill, and he’d be ok with being a bench player (no way he’s 1st string here), then I’d be all for it.
Med - He’d have to be the starter on day 1. Day 30 who knows…but I like the idea of sweet D to start games…can always dump it into all until Ellington & whoever else comes in.
That made no sense I realize…”can always dump it into Al until Ellington & whoever else comes in”
Swan
very true, but having zero outside shooting if you start Flynn and Jones (unless Gomes or Brewer steps up) will let teams just flood the paint and Al will have troubles.
well facial, thanks for clearing that up…makes a world of difference don’t it??
Foo — The name I’m thinking of from the Wolves side is Craig Smith. His role this year is likely to be reduced based on the fact that we should expect Love to play 30+ minutes and the presence of Darius Songaila and Etan Thomas should also eat into his minutes. Plus, given that Songaila is already signed beyond this season, I see it as unlikely that Smith will be resigned. The Rhino is an established offensive threat who can be a solid backup.
I’m also arguing that Korver and Finley may not be considered essential any more to their respective teams.
Given that the Jazz appear to be almost certain to lose one of Boozer and Millsap, a guy like Smith would be a nice backup for them. The Jazz already have Brewer and Miles at the shooting guard position signed beyond this season at a relatively cheap price. Kirilenko is hard to move because of his contract. Korver seems like the likely odd man out in that case. The Jazz aren’t likely to resign him, especially if they resign Okur in addition to one of Boozer or Millsap. The Wolves would have to toss in Madsen to make the salaries work.
Smith is admittedly a harder fit on the Spurs since they drafted DeJuan Blair. But given that Kurt Thomas is gone and Drew Gooden may not be back, there are two spots open on their roster. Given that the Suprs have Ginobli, Jefferson and Mason at the 2/3, plus a possible resigning of Udoka, Finley could be expendable.
Foo
don’t you think that the fans want to see a few wins this year? A 2-3 year plan is great for a team that has seen some wins, but I go to games and the people in the stands are anxious for W’s. Kahn seems to be on a long term plan, which is fine for him, personally, but has he thought about the average viewer? Also, aren’t we banking a lot on Al getting healthy? Anyone heard about his rehab?
Here’s the thing about plugging holes this year: we NEED to be bad next year. We could have 3 first-round picks next year. Or we could have none. And that would kill the rebuilding process.
The thing we control is keeping our pick in the top 10. We’ll probably get Utah’s pick, but you never know. They’re pretty close to the middle of the pack and could easily finish with the 15th or better pick. I’d say the odds are we don’t get the Charlotte pick (via Denver) next year, but it’s possible.
So let’s roll out Ellington, D-leaguers, UofM intramural players, whatever it takes to make sure we have a top 10 pick!
Story from the oregon paper, an overveiw of Kahn but interesting especially the part that says Kahn and Fagan have a good relationship.
http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=124628849937066300
Sean - If The Wolves could acquire Kyle Korver for Craig Smith and Mark Madsen, then David Kahn will have ripped The Jazz off… If Korver had a burdensome 3+ year contract or something, maybe Utah would want to do that. But (even if you assume Utah wants to move Korver) don’t you think Utah could get a LOT more for a sharp-shooter/expiring contract like Korver than Craig Smith and Mark Madsen… especially at the trade deadline?
It just doesn’t seem at all wise or practical from Utah’s side of things and not at all helpful from The Wolves side of things.
I like the ideas, but that one won’t ever happen… it benefits neither side.
Madison Dan — In case you haven’t noticed, we’ve had no problem staying in the bottom 10 without rolling out those types of players.
I would suggest that you can’t abandon any pretense of trying to win games. This franchise has spent the last two years doing just that following three years of unsuccessfully trying to win. That’s five straight years of missing the playoffs. Folks may be happy than Kahn is here, but that will evaporate real quickly if this team is getting drilled on a regular basis.
A balance can and must be struck between not ruining the long term plan and ensuring that the product on the floor is worth watching.
“don’t you think that the fans want to see a few wins this year?”
Sure they do. But in this instance it’s good business to lose some short term gains, i.e. enduring another year or two of poor attendance, to get the talent base in place for sustained success on the floor and at the turnstiles.
Also when it comes for free agents they really should not be adding anyone that’s not going to be part of their long term plans. Plugging in an overrated defender like Jones doesn’t do much for the future of the team.
seenenough - like it or not, it’s a 2-3 year plan.
And, yes, all of us who go to games would prefer to win games. But I’d rather have a 30-win team this year and potentially a 50-60 win team in 2011-2012, rather than 35-40 win teams every year until 2011-2012.
Your argument is one that advocates mediocrity every year.
You gotta build these things the right way. It sounds like you’re a fan of 30-40 win teams who barely miss the playoffs. I’m a fan of 50-60 win teams who have a chance to make deep playoff runs.
If I have to wait 2-3 years for that because the team is built the right way, then fine. It doesn’t happen overnight.
Sean: yeah, I noticed. And I think it’s unlikely we could get to 11 next year if we tried. By why WOULD we try (through short-term roster moves)?
The players need to play hard. We need to make progress. We need to find out about the players we have. But we don’t need to do anything to add players that make next year look better if we don’t see them contributing to a playoff run in 2011-2012.
I think the fans will stick with it if we’re building toward something.
Foo
If Rubio comes over this year or next and is as good as advertised (or if the team gets an impact player and other pieces/picks for him in a trade), and the team continues to improve from within as well as gets important pieces in the draft and FA next year, I do not see why this team can’t make it to the playoffs next year.
I agree that you do not want to stunt development of players who comprise the team’s future by bringing in stop gap players. However, partly because I don’t see Brewer as a long term solution, and because I don’t see Flynn really playing the 2, there are really a ton of minutes to be filled at the 2 and 3, with no guarantee that Ellington is ready for more than an introduction to the league. I think he has potential, and believe it was the perfect pick at 28, but there were few rookies outside the blue chippers who were capable of stepping into big minutes last year.
I think that the wolves should be looking to do a deal with the Warriors. After drafting Curry, I assume they’ll be starting Curry and Jackson, with Magette’s unmoveable contract being the first wing off the bench. That means there is a ton of bench time split between Azibuke, Bellinelli, Kurz, who Nellie loves, and Morrow. I think we can move one of our large bodied bigs to take a guy off their hands who can move between the 2 and 3. Aside from Magette, all their wings are young and cheap. Azibuke might make you stop worrying about Ellington’s development.
Brewer is not an NBA starter. If Ellington gives 20 min a game by years end it is a success. Gomes is not a starter, and if Rubio is not here Flynn does not spend a minute as the 2. So, whose development are you hindering by bringing in a young guy who has proven he can play effectively in the league at the wing?
Also I think what people should keep in mind about it being a 2-3 year plan is that there will be improvement in the team from month to month and year to year. It’s not like they’re going to be awful for years then suddenly turn good. It will be a process and should be a fun one to watch.
Jerry - any new post to refresh the conversation would be great……
I know bert listed some FA guards above, but anyone like any of the other names out there that haven’t been talked about here yet? FA starts tomorrow.
I’ll add one more name to the list in Morris Almond. I know nothing about him except he’s an unrestricted FA, 24yrs old and 6′6″.
I’d like to see some consideration for Kareem Rush. He’s 29yrs old, but I like what he’s done and think he’d be a good guard to have in the Wolves rotation for one or two years to give solid minutes as Ellington developes and until a better option presents itself.
Foo — The Jazz are going to have to do something at the PF spot. Can they get a better player and contract combination than Craig Smith for that position given the limitations they are likely facing (if they resign Millsap and Okur, they’re going to have $50 million tied up in four players)? Maybe they can, I don’t know.
It seems to me, though, that Korver is a guy we should be inquiring about if we think that Rubio isn’t going to be here this year.
If this team could get Azabuike, we’d definitely be headed in the right direction.
fiveanddime alludes to another good point — you can’t just wave away the situation at the 3. Ryan Gomes had a bad season last year. I don’t think he’ll be that bad this year, but counting on him as a 30+ minute guy is a shaky proposition.
fiveanddime - “NBA Starter” means different things to different people. Brewer can be just as effective in a starting role as Bruce Bowen was for the entire Spurs dynasty.
You can’t fill your lineup with scorers and nothing else. Brewer plays a pretty big role on this squad. It’s invaluable to have such a long, athletic defender like Brewer to defend all the great wings we have in the Western Conference.
If I was advocating Brewer as a go-to scoring option, then I could here you. But he’ll probably be the 5th or 6th scoring option on this team. As a starter, that’s not Brewer’s role… that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be in the starting lineup.
He fits very, very well here. He does just enough offensively (slashing/transition scoring) to keep him in the lineup. And his perimeter shooting appeared to be moving in the right direction last year before he got injured.
Either way, 2009-2010 will be a very telling year regarding Brewer’s long-term role here. I’m rooting for him.
Does anyone remember that this was considered a very weak draft to begin with. Only position worth a damn was guard. and we got greedy and took many of the best. Flynn and Ellington are solid picks. All-Stars? maybe, maybe not. Rubio? he has the most potential to be the best of this draft. Can one honestly say we would be in better shape with Foye?Miller and playing against say the Nicks and their new PG Rubio?
I don’t think this team will be able to do much in free agency with their collection of somewhat usefull to useless 4s and 5s taking up roster spots.
A (worthwhile) trade doesn’t look too promising at this point either. Foo and Sean’s discussion makes it clear to me that we’ll be hard pressed to get anything worthwhile (or that fits the plan) back in exchange for any of the previously mentioned pieces until teams get desperate at the trade deadline.
I don’t endorse this idea, but a contract or two may need to be bought out to allow for balancing of the roster. My guess is it could be much quieter than we hope between now and the trade deadline.
jcoleman — This team only has cap exceptions to work with from a free agency perspective, so pickings will be slim. That’s why substantive changes to the roster are only likely through trades.
But, with the exception of Smith (who I put in the somewhat usefull category) what do we have as trade assets right now? Expiring contracts don’t typically become all that attractive until the trade deadline right?
So what teams have interest in Cardinal, Madsen, Smith, Thomas, Songaila or Pecherov that would trade a player the Wolves value and fills a need of SG depth or other need?
I don’t know how many teams have a quality player to send to MN that would be interested in the players MN has to offer other than for expiring contracts. That could be enough, but I think it’ll be tough to find a deal that ends up being satifying in the short term (ie: this season)
A couple for FA names to add to the list: James Singleton and Quinton Ross.
Not advocating either, just throwing for fodder into the frenzy.
That’s why I’ve been focusing on trading expirings for expirings. The players we have available are unlikely to bring in pieces that are part of the long-term plan, but could be moved to provide some short-term roster balance.
A Rubio thought…
One thing I think is highly overrated is that players make more endorsement money in large markets. I think this applies to lesser players, but not as much to superstars.
Is Lebron making less money in Cleveland? How about Wade in Miami? Howard in Orlando?
KG did just fine when he was here scoring some huge marketing deals. If you are a marketable star, the money will come your way.
That said, I think second and third tier players would definitely make more money in big markets, but my guess is that Rubio would be a bigger star than that.
To clarify, I wasn’t saying Miami is a small market, but that it’s not NY or LA.
Foo, Brewer is the 5th option on offense in support of which scorers exactly? Can you name a team on which Brewer would start? You are preaching to the choir about the need for perimeter D, but I don’t think Brewer is the lock down defender that others seem to, and I would trade a small amount of defense to someone who can contribute something on the offensive end, given that we are not blessed with proven offensive scorers aside from Jefferson. I don’t particularly like Brewer even touching the ball on offense, let alone shooting it.
Rodman - I agree. If MJ had been drafted by and played in Portland instead of Chicago, would he have had any less endorsement deals/money? Maybe a little, but not a lot. He still would have been Michael Jordan, “greatest player to ever play the game”
Sorry wow. I was just trying to clear things up about Jerry’s work schedule. I’m thinking he’s been looking to take some vacation/comp time for a while.
Chad Ford is reporting Michael Curry just got fired. Mac coming on the market must have been too good to pass up…
thanks Foo to my last question, but he (Pops Mensubonsue) in my opinion in sounds like were using a more up-tempo game can run the floor and can jump out of the gym. he blocks almost every shot. i see him as a taller gerald green as far as athletisism goes.
i think the wolves need to seriously consider him
Look, we don’t have a proven starter at 2/3, and the bench itself is so thin that you can’t expect to get through the season without adding some talent. How many minutes are the guys we have worth, not even counting the expected fatigue and injuries of and NBA season? All of our wings combined played a total of 97 games in the NBA last year. Gomes and Brewer have never played more than 32 and 20 min a game, respectively. Given that Ellington is an unknown, you’re seriously prepared to go to war with this lineup?
We have a logjam at the 4 and a bare cupboard when it comes to wings, so some move has to be made. I don’t mind tossing in a future draft pick (how many rookies will we add in the next few years?) if it makes the difference in getting a guy who could have a future here (e.g. Azubuike) vs. a guy filling minutes for a couple years until we can develop a guy.
Some people think that the Wolves will/should hand the SG position to Ellington. Picks that late in the draft are lucky to still be in the league after a couple of years, and rarely become starting caliber players. I can’t say that it won’t happen, but it would be beating the odds.
Even though we know that the Wolves will not be championship caliber next season, we still expect them to compete. If this Rubio thing doesn’t work out and is a PR disaster and then the Wolves only win a handful of games, there will be so few fans left that by the time they start winning there will be no one left to pay for tickets. Glen Taylor’s dream is to make this organization profitable again.
Rarely is any team profitable on a consistent year-to-year basis. I’m sure the Wolves have been nowhere near profitable for a long time. It’s possible we’ve never turned a profit in any single year in franchise history, given our market.
All the money Glen Taylor will make off the Wolves will come when he sells the team.
OK, Foo, I get your point, however, I’ve read where you’ve said this team wins 30+ games next year and i just don’t see it. Rookies have a hard time in this league, and you’re supporting 2 rookies as your starting PG’s? We saw the growing pains with Foye and others, including Love last year. I think with your lineup, you maybe win 18 games. The stands will be empty.
Yes, we need more roster balance, but mostly I think we need to learn the following things this year:
1. Can Flynn play?
2. Can Ellington play? I’m hoping for a Kerr-type player here, not Brandon Roy. If he can camp out on the 3-point line and hit enough shots to encourage Al to kick it out, that’s a success in my book.
3. Is Al healthy?
4. How well do Al and Love play together?
5. Can Brewer play? I’m looking for a defensive stopper who can score in transition and get junk points in the half court.
(Sorry, in my head, I still don’t picture Rubio here next year, so I have no plans for him. That’s not to say he won’t be.)
If we can answer all of those questions, we’ll know how to use our draft picks/cap room/trade assets next year to stay on track. If we can add another good, young piece in FA or through trades this year, that’s great. But the road to NBA mediocrity is paved with short-term fixes.
The difference this year is our rookies are very NBA ready. Some rookies are able to make huge impacts their rookie years, like Chris Paul, Dwyane Wade, Brandon Roy, etc. Flynn and Rubio both have the potential to make that kind of a mark this year.
seenenough:
If we’re playing 3 rookies big minutes people understand. However, if the games are entertaining people will come to see exciting plays orchestrated by Rubio (if he gets here) and Flynn.
On Today’s NBA Chat with ESPN’s Chad Ford
Alex (nj)9:19 AM
One more question from a depressed Nets fan.Is there any truth to the rumors that the nets were shopping Harris (to minnesota) before the draft and why in the world would they want to do that? The kid is a young all-star PG with a more then managable salary (something like 8mil per)… Why try to trade him?
Chad Ford10:11 AM
There was a little bit of truth to it. They really liked Ricky Rubio … but I don’t think it will happen.
I would have taken devin harris for him.
Odd comment from Chad Ford. The rumor I heard didn’t say anything about us giving up the #5 pick…
If it was part of the deal, than Rubio and Jefferson is way too steep a price for Devin Harris.
Bryan
I think at the time, they wanted to give us Harris, their 11 pick (Daye, Clark, etc) and something else.
Rubio for a stud offensive/defensive pg and high upside SF wouldnt have been so bad.
We would have needed to have found a very quick solution for center though. Al isn’t ideal as a 5, but he’s by far the best we have right now.
Bryan
if anything, Thomas is no slouch when healthy, and Pachullia is available in FA. Mullens was a reach and Thabeet was the only good 5 in the draft. The team did what it needed to do - stockpile picks and hopefully get them for next year’s draft - which is riddled with big men.
What? Rubio and Jefferson for Harris? Was that really the rumored deal?
Maybe I could see it if Brook Lopez was included coming to the Wolves, but not Rubio, Al and number five for Harris and number 11. Now way.
Madison Dan — I agree that all five of those questions are worthy questions. That still doesn’t mean, though, that there’s not a need to bring in additional pieces at the 2/3. Splitting 96 minutes at the 2/3 between Ellington, Gomes, Brewer and maybe some Cardinal is asking for trouble. You want to help Flynn, Love, and Jefferson develop? Make sure that they are playing with at least somebody semi-competent.
Ya, but ultimately who would you rather have? Al and Rubio or Harris and Yi?
If there had been a guarantee that Evans or Harden would fall to #6, I would have considered it.
If we add a shooting guard who can really help the team long term, then great. Kalenna Azubuike would be a fantastic pickup. Kyle Korver would not.
Brian,
I won’t argue with what you said about Taylor’s money, but that wasn’t the point. He supposedly loses a ton of money every year and it probably hurts his big business ego. If he truly loses $20 mil every year (I doubt it) then even the sale of the team won’t recoup his losses. The point was that he needs fans in the seats to keep the team alive.
Only half the teams in the NBA are profitable in any given year, if that. There are teams, both winning and losing, that lose more money than Taylor does.
Bryan, they wanted both? oh heck no..
I’d much rather have Al and Rubio than Harris and Yi. That’s easy for me to decide.
fiveanddime - I don’t project players’ roles in the present tense, but where they would fit in the long-term plan.
So, yes, on our current roster we don’t have the scoring punch necessary to just be able to let Brewer get minutes as a glue guy/defensive stud/transition scorer. I project where Corey Brewer will fit at the conclusion of this rebuilding plan.
In 2-3 years, I’m presuming that we’ll have a lot more offensive weapons at our disposal. And, at that point, Brewer fits exceptionally well.
There’s only one ball, so to have a guy who does his job at a very high level and doesn’t need to the ball to be effective? That’s priceless. Would you rather have a Rashad McCants type who is ostensibly a better scorer than Corey Brewer? There’s more to building a TEAM than having a roster of 15 scorers.
I’m looking at FIT… not filling out a fantasy basketball roster. Brewer’s perimeter shooting looked more promising early last year (over 40% from 3-point land, albeit in a small sample) and he’s always been effective as a slasher/transition scorer. That’s all the offense we’ll need out of Brewer when you consider his role is to move the ball and defend. As long as he’s not an offensive liability (which I admit he hasn’t conclusively proven yet, but I think it’s a very attainable projection for him), then I think he fits very well.
Sean: I see your point. I don’t think you’ve suggested anything ridiculous, but I’d just hate to see any sort of “win now” mentality take hold in the organization. We need to lose gracefully and productively.
I have wondered whether we could find some grizzled veteran that could show the kids the ropes, provide some stability, but not steal too many minutes. He’d be long gone by the time the core is a playoff team, but would have contributed to the growth of the team. I don’t know who that guy might be (Grant Hill comes to mind as an archetype), or why he’d come here instead of going to a contender, but you never know.
Tyler - I like Pops, but he’s a 3rd-stringer who could fill a role… certainly not a franchise-changer, otherwise he wouldn’t be such an NBA Nomad.
But, yeah, on the level at which he projects, I’m a big fan.
fiveanddime -
I like Azubuike, but I’m OK with our current cast at 2-guard as well.
You said:
“Given that Ellington is an unknown, you’re seriously prepared to go to war with this lineup?”
I don’t consider our team positioned as “going to war” period. We’re in development mode. Our 82-game slate next year isn’t war at all… it’s boot camp.
I like the boot camp line, Foo!
Exactly. No shooting guard short of Vince Carter will make this team significantly more competitive than it already is. I’m not at all behind the idea of giving up a young talent or two just to add a veteran who might get us 2 or 3 more wins.
Ian Thomsen that it was just prelim talks the 5 for 11 and Devin Harris. Jonathan Givony of DraftExpress says it was a 3-team trade where Minny had to give up 5 and 6 to get Harris. That, I felt would have been too much.
Sean - the assertion you made is that Ellington, Gomes, Brewer and Cardinal aren’t even “semi-competant?”
If those guys aren’t even “semi-competant,” wouldn’t you advocate just cutting them? As for me, I wouldn’t want to have players who aren’t even “semi-competant” on the roster.
If we just cut them, do you think those four players would never play another game in the NBA? In my opinion, NBA players need to be at least “semi-competant.”
looking ahead to next year, with the cap situation still great and some good young talent, who do the twolves make a run at next year? Ignoring the pipe dreams of Lebron and Wade, I like Joe Johnson (yes still a pipe dream but u never know and Harrington and Big Z if they are reasonable.
As far as the draft, if we can get even 2 out of the 3 we have projected for next year, we have a strong shot at one of Abi, Monroe, Aldrich or Jordan.
looking at that and the FA’s I proposed (possibly 20 mill/year for Johnson, 10-15 for harrington and about 10 for big Z), think of a lineup consisting of:
Rubio/Flynn
Johnson/Ellington/Brewer
Harrington/Gomes
Al Jefferson/Love
Z/one of the rookies
that team can flat out play, score and defend.
Joe Johnson I actually think is a pretty realistic target. The Hawks are always in flux and their management sucks. I can’t imagine Joe is terribly happy in Atlanta, and I’m sure that unhappiness will just get worse if they make good on their attempts to deal Josh Smith.
Foo, you need to fill 96 minutes between 3 players at the 2/3. Maybe if you have Rubio than you get a bit of relief at the 2 with Flynn, but seriously. I don’t care if you are not looking to win next year, you need to field a team. Do you expect those three guys to play 82 games each and kick in 35 minutes each every game. Love gave you 25 minutes a game last year. You’re going to answer questions about Brewer and ellington, plus let Ellington develop just fine without playing having these guys on the floor for 2/3s of the game. I’m just being realistic.
Also, I’m going to opbject to the statement that Brewer has always been effective as a slasher. He does not have the skills required to get to the basket off the dribble. If you can find any piece of evidence or any learned opinion to suggest I am wrong I would be welcome to hear/read it.
New video I found of Rubio:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3O7aUPvSV4
Seriously, some of the things this kid can do with the basketball defies logic.
Well, for starters, isn’t that a good enough reason to bring back Rodney Carney?
5and10
if we don’t deal smith, what do you think of smith at the 3? he’s pretty quick for his size and can beat just about any 3 in the post.
Bryan, who is the young talent that you think people are trying to get rid of in order to get 2 or 3 wins? As for my suggestion, I’m just talking about actually fielding a full squad first off. Second, if you’re going to add someone so that you can actuially put someone on the court for each of the 5 accepted positions in the NBA, get someone young and with potential so that you are not just throwing in a stop gap. You could sign a free agent, but they are likely to be more expensive, and they do not clear space on the roster by moving out one of our new found big 4s who have no future on this team.
For example, the idea of Michael Finely came up. That would cost us Telfair, Smith or a second round pick.
Again, I’m willing to add a swingman, but he has to be a guy who is high talent and will stick with the team long term. It’s pointless to give up valuable trade assets and young talent to rent a worn down veteran for a year.
fiveanddime - offensively, slashing has always been Brewer’s offensive game. It certainly hasn’t been deep shooting or tossing alley-oops or something, right?
What’s your evidence that he CAN’T slash/score in transition? That was his game in Gainesville. As for his time in The NBA, he was learning the ropes as a rookie (and making progress, BTW) and then got injured almost immediately as a second-year player.
I think next year will be very important for him to show us what he can (or can’t) do. I personally don’t think it’s possible to conclusively state what he can do either way:
1. As I’ve already admitted (at 2:01 p.m.), hasn’t proven conclusively that he won’t be an offensive liability yet… but he does project to have some offensive usefulness.
2. But he also hasn’t had enough games played yet for you to conclusively say he can’t play at all. Hard to write off a kid after like than 80 games in his career.
new thread
Facial- sorry I didn’t respond earlier, World Language was a 2 semester class I had in High School that covered 4 or 5 different languages(German, Spanish, French, Arabic…) Then I liked Spanish the most so took 2 years of that and Rubio’s supposed facebook had spanish on it that I used in my first year and he has spoken spanish his whole life, so someone probably knows a little spanish and made a facebook page
If your talking about Craig Smith at the 3, I think we should be talking about something else.
Maybe trade Smith for a young(1-3 years experience) SG with a short contract
Bryan,
I am not sure what your point is about the money. Taylor is losing money and yes other team do to, but that doesn’t mean that they accept it. Taylor is a man that is used to making money and he doesn’t want to lose as much money as possible. He wants fans in the seats as he begged on that one commercial. The less fans in the seats the more money he loses. He needs to put a good or competitive product on the floor.
The one exception is that he is to nice to ax the Lynx.
[…] That he says no comment rather than deny it leads me to belieRead more at http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/wolves/2009/06/28/anybody-seen-ricky-rubio-at-el-meson/ […]
[…] On the Wolves » Blog Archive » Anybody seen Ricky Rubio at El Meson? […]
[…] Jerry Zgoda, Minneapolis Star Tribune: "To address the little birdie and Charley Walters’ ‘report’ that Ricky Rubio was in town — or due in town — yesterday to meet with David Kahn … Honestly, I don’t know. I’ve worked to confirm it, which unfortunately as a beat writer is a necessity, but haven’t been able to. David Kahn promised ‘transparency’ when he took the job but eventually said ‘Sorry, we have no comment’ when I texted him numerous times to ask if has, or will soon meet, with Rubio and his father. That he says no comment rather than deny it leads me to believe there’s something there, which isn’t surprising that the two sides would begin some kind of conversation face to face soon." […]
