It really was his prerogative: Bobby Brown back for 2009-10 and summer-league roster set
Posted on June 30th, 2009 – 2:38 PMBy Jerry Zgoda
Wolves point guard Bobby Brown, as expected, has exercised the $736,420 option for next season and, in theory, will be back next season.
That now gives the Wolves four point guards, with Ricky Rubio and Jonny Flynn drafted together last week and Sebastian Telfair already under contract.
Undrafted out of Cal State-Fullerton, Brown signed a two-year deal with Sacramento last summer after impressing in the Vegas Summer League, then was traded to the Wolves at the trading deadline in the swap that sent Rashad McCants and Calvin Booth to the Kings for Brown and Shelden Williams.
Williams becomes an unrestricted free agent at midnight tonight and, with a new baby delivered by wife Candace Parker this spring, will be looking for work.
Brown will be on the Wolves’ Vegas Summer League roster that also will include Flynn, Wayne Ellington, NDSU guard Ben Woodside, newly acquried Oleksiy Pecherov and Flynn’s Syracuse teammate, Paul Harris.
The complete roster
22 Corey Brewer, F (6-9 188), Florida, 2nd year
1 Bobby Brown, G (6-2 175), Cal State Fullerton, 1
23 Pat Carroll, G/F (6-5 190), St. Joseph’s R
19 Wayne Ellington, G (6-4 200), North Carolina R
11 Jonny Flynn, G (6-0 185), Syracuse R
17 Devin Green, G (6-7 212), Hampton 1
12 Paul Harris, G/F, (6-4 230) Syracuse R
15 Gerald Henderson, G (6-4 215), Duke R
51 Steven Hill, C (7-0 248) Arkansas 1
31 Rob Kurz, F (6-9 232) Notre Dame 1
4 Oleksiy Pecherov, F (7-0 234) Ukraine 2
20 Garrett Siler, C (6-11 305) Augusta State R
7 Ben Woodside, G (5-11 185) North Dakota State R
As you’ll notice, GERALD HENDERSON is listed on the roster. Little technicality here: He was drafted 12th by Charlotte.
Is there some big trade they haven’t told us about?
Nope.
The Bobcats have nixed their summer-league team this year in a cost-cutting move, so Larry Brown (who’s buddies with David Kahn) is placing players on other team’s summer-league rosters.
Since the Wolves are lacking shooting guards, Henderson will end up playing on the Wolves’ team.
Expect Corey to practice with the team and then maybe play a game or two, but no more than that, just to try his knee out.
317 Responses to "It really was his prerogative: Bobby Brown back for 2009-10 and summer-league roster set"
great. more point guards
Thanks for starting a new string, no matter how minor Brown’s role will be. The last entry had more than 600 comments.
Raising the obvious question of when that baby will be draft eligible?
Brown’s a bum!
Why not have Brown return? He’s quick, athletic, and can shoot. If the plan is to stick with this Rubio/Flynn duo, then Brown seems to be a much better fit than Telfair.
That might be the plan, Bryan — or maybe it’s only supposed to look like the plan — but it’s not going to be the way it works out.
As for Brown…there will be more moves this summer; the roster is obviously ill balanced. Right now, including Flynn and Ellington (but not Rubio) they have 14 players under contract for next season.
Depending on what happens, it wouldn’t be a surprise if they wind up cutting (and paying) Brown.
Jerry, I assume you are saying that you’ve become convinced that Rubio won’t be playing here this season.
As for Telfair, I kind of hope they move him, as much for his sake as anything. Though if Rubio isn’t here, he can still get good minutes here, (and might be the starter. Yikes).
Just a hypothesis that was floated in Chad Ford’s chat. If Rubio is willing to come to Mpls except for the fact that Flynn is here is it possible to package him and a spare part or so and bring in Kevin Martin?
I know Martin is sick by Evans really isn’t a point guard and neither is Martin.
Please don’t crucify me on this but the Kings will need a point guard and well, we have two of them. Or hell maybe you use Rubio to get him (really wouldn’t want too) but Martin averaged an awful lot of points last season.
I like that we have Paul Harris on our summer league squad. He could be a sleeper to make the squad…. or no?
Maybe we should trade Telfair and Keep Flynn, Brown and eventually Rubio as our PG’s. If Rubio doesn’t come over then find someone on the cheap to be a 3rd PG that can teach the young guards.
Come on Jerry, give us something on Rubio.
Bobby Brown - 6-2 combo guard. He’ll get some minutes at 2-guard as well.
But, as I continue to say, guys like Bobby Brown, Rodney Carney, Pops Mensa Bonsu, etc are roster-fodder.
$700K+ on Bobby Brown is an economical way to fill a roster spot. Go ahead and sign an undrafted FA/D-Leaguer to be the 3rd-string 2-guard and we’re good to go into Boot Camp 2009-2010.
Not necessarily saying Rubio won’t be here next season.
Am saying those two will never play together in the same backcourt.
The Wolves will have to choose between one or the other.
Is there a list of our summer league team somewhere that I missed?
What do you want on Rubio?
Full summer-league roster will be out shortly. I’m sure you can’t wait.
Brown is terrible. Cut him a check and send him on his way.
I’m just wondering if I made it or not, lol
Sean - I wouldn’t have a problem with cutting Brown. I wouldn’t have a problem if they kept him…
He’s pretty irrelevant either way.
Foo — back to the last thread, the point on those four is this:
Ellington is a complete question mark.
Brewer is coming off a serious injury and didn’t set the world on fire before the injury. I like him jsut as you do, but he’s a big question mark, too.
Gomes had a bad season last year. As I said before, I don’t expect him to be that bad this year, but still…
Cardinal doesn’t have the athleticism to play significant minutes at the 3.
You’ve got to give yourself more of a chance at those positions. And as I’ve said before, I think there would be value for this team in having a veteran on the floor to help this young team along (like Sam Mitchell and Terry Porter had value in the KG/Marbury days) even in “boot camp” mode.
Do we know the summer-league roster at all? I’ve just read about Ben Woodside and Paul Harris… anybody else?
Since we are talking about Sac, and if Rubio really doesn’t want to be here, what about him for Kmart and another piece (possibly Brad Miller’s expiring), although the salaries would need some work.
Jerry - are you taking Ford’s stance? all I’ve heard from Rubio is that he wants minutes, and he’ll get them even if we have Flynn.
Sean
how about smith at the 3 for 10-15/game?
Sean - so are those four players not even “semi-competant” or what?
thanks for gracing us w/ your presence jerry. a couple of us had to stick up for you on the last thread w/ moron talking trash…
I can’t believe there’s clamoring for the summer-league roster???
Either way Jerry, we need shooters in the worst way.
And hey, I’m as skeptical as anyone about Rubio and Flynn playing together, but I’m willing to give it a go. Most teams fail because they take two shooters and try to get one of them to pass, like we did last year. Building a team on two guys who pass the ball? We could do a lot worse.
I can’t ever see Craig Smith playing the 3, medschool. Maybe in formality only if they went for a short-stretch with a big-lineup.
Otherwise, I really like him in a 10-mpg role as the 6th-man of the frontcourt. He’s not a high-level player, but he’s got great energy and can score quickly off the bench. I’d like to see him here for the long-term in that 10-mpg role. He seems to be a nice fit.
My view is that Kevin Martin would be an excellent get. I’ve been arguing elsewhere that I would do a Flynn and Love and Cardinal deal, but everyone seems to be killing me. I don’t think you could do that deal with just Flynn and parts.
Martin is a tremendous scorer at the SG. Scores the 2 ways you have to in today’s NBA–makes 3s and gets to the line at a very high rate. Also has a good contract–4 more years topping out under $13 million. He also isn’t terrible defensively, and is full sized.
He’s 26, which is on the edge of where I’m willing to commit. But I’d be willing to roll with a Jefferson, Martin, Rubio core.
Jerry - I’m just curious about the summer-league roster. I’m an agate-page junky… like those little nuggets.
Foo — I would argue that if you’re serious about running a NBA franchise, you can’t go into the season with those four guys as your projected players at the 2/3. You’ve got one player out of four that has consistently shown they are able to play at a solid level. Use whatever adjective to describe that you like, since you don’t like mine.
I get the feeling Sean won’t think we’re a good team unless we somehow field Team USA. Every player except for Jefferson and Love, he’s labeled as either semi-competent or irrelevant.
You guys just watch Bobby Brown become Aaron Brooks this year.
Hey Jerry–people love the details. Strange that the Wolves are hot, and that your info is so in demand?
(Of course, wait til your writing that gamer from OKC in late February and the team has about 15 wins).
We’ve got the fever, Jerry!
eric in madison - I think it’s more likely we’d deal Rubio for Kevin Martin.
Rubio and expirings for Kevin Martin and a future 1st-rounder?
That would give Sacramento a Rubio-Evans back-court and sick cap space to supplement that core.
I would not trade Flynn for Martin, Martin just doesn’t do it for me, I like Granger’s game but Indiana wouldn’t do that trade.
I really like Flynn’s attitude and would want to keep him over Rubio if it came to that.
Foo–I suspect you are correct that it couldn’t be done without Rubio. I wouldn’t do that. Like I say, I’d do Flynn and Love, but Rubio borders on the untouchable for me.
OK, OK, calm down: Just added the complete summer-league roster to the original post.
Sean: you lose me when you take an argument that there’s some minimum level of competence required to qualify as a “serious NBA franchise”. It’s not like the NBA relegates teams like they do in soccer; in fact it rewards incompetence with high draft picks.
Yes, we probably need more balance in the roster to cover the available minutes. Yes, we might want to have players on hand who are worth learning from. No, we do not want to be good for the sake of appearances.
Uhh, Jerry, how can we be fielding Gerald Henderson…?
And where’s Kevin Love?
No K-Love in Vegas?
Jerry, anything reliable you have(if available) to put some meat on or discredit some of the rumors going around on Rubio.
After the Favre saga, I am a little gunshy on believing everything I hear. And there has been plenty to hear.
Bryan - Teams usually share summer league teams.
Bryan — You’re right in that I’m not easy to satisify. And you’re right that I don’t think much of the current roster. Other than Jefferson and Love, there’s not a lot to like among the returning players. Gomes is an OK bench player, and I think Brewer has the potential to be a good player. I like the draft picks, even though I don’t share this board’s irrational exuberance for Wayne Ellington.
And while I realize it’s about the long-term, I do think this organization needs to have a sense of urgency about things. We have missed the playoffs for five consecutive seasons — tied for the longest streak in the league. In 2010-2011, this team should be a .500 team. In 2011-2012, this team should be a playoff team. That should be the standard this team and its leadership is held accountable to.
Hmmm, there’s a couple of intriguing names there. Steven Hill and Rob Kurz both stand out to me as guys would could do a lot for the team, provided we move some of our incumbent forwards.
great job jerry. only wish i could be there to watch this year…
Sean - Yes, I obviously don’t like the assertion that those players aren’t even “semi-competant.” I’m just trying to goad you into saying that again… otherwise, I’m assuming that you’d admit those players are at least competant NBA players… maybe you just got a bit carried away in your discussion of them and exaggerated a bit.
But the four players you mentioned bear some discussion:
1. Gomes is what he is and is a solid rotational player. You can’t rely on this guy as your franchise pillar, but he’s a pretty decent all-around player who I’d like to keep as a solid, well-rounded reserve.
2. Cardinal is only here because his contract was shorter than Jaric’s and he’s less of a malcontent than Jaric. But he’s obviously not in the long-term plans here.
3. Ellington and Brewer - You can’t guarantee the success or failure out of either of these guys, but they are both highly-regarded players by a lot of folks who both played major roles on NCAA Championship teams. They’re going to give Ellington a chance and I don’t believe one season + a few games last year is enough to make any sort of conclusive statement about Brewer. Those two need minutes for us to know what we’ve got in them. After next year, we’ll know a lot more about both of them. Before that happens, it seems pretty premature to make any bold statements like you know what type of players they are. How would you and I even know?
Why is Gerald Henderson on the Wolves Summer League Team? Didn’t he get drafted by the Bobcats? Did the Wolves trade for him without telling any one?
Jerry,
I don’t really get the problem with playing Flynn and Rubio in the backcourt together. The NBA has lots of undersized twos who have been successful as well as all of the combo guards (which includes the pgs who are better off the ball ala Iverson). Plus Flynn is a strong defender.
What possible reason would there be not to try both Flynn and Rubio out to see what they have? It makes no sense. To me both have potential to be the best player in the 2009 draft. Only time on the court will determine that.
Sometimes I think all the pundits lack vision. Curry/Rubio works, but Flynn/Rubio doesn’t? Not really seeing it from my perspective.
Thanks, Jerry! Now I can get my #20 Siler jersey.
Madison Dan: No matter how hard one beats the “rebuilding” drum, I would argue a team owes it to the paying fans to put a respectable product on the floor. If this team goes into the season with this as the roster (and I fully expect it won’t), it’s not doing enough to respect its remaining fans.
madison dan, you’re better off hanging out by the wolves bench after their last game there and asking for his summer league jersey
How undersized is Rubio for a shooting guard really though? He’s 6′4″-6′5″, about 180-190 lbs…that’s about the same size as Delonte West or Courtney Lee or Larry Hughes or OJ Mayo.
Or…check this out…Gary Payton.
Gee, Sean, the Thunder sure do disrespect their fans, huh…?
i would venture to guess that 90% of the guys that are brought to the various summer leagues either end up in europe or in the d-league
I see a big difference between Flynn and Curry. Sure their sizes are close, but Curry is a pure scorer. He is a shooter that is what he is. He can create for himself, but is also very good at getting the ball from others in good position. Flynn is a creator. He needs the ball in his hands to either create for himself or others. Rubio is the same way. How do you play two guys that both need the ball in their hands so much.
wow…WOW, wish I could be there in Vegas this year, too.
Rodman–I don’t think it’s Jerry’s opinion at issue. I think the issue is that the players and their agents don’t like the idea of playing together–or at least Rubio’s doesn’t. That’s what Jerry is positing when he says they won’t play here together.
Sean - You said:
“In 2011-2012, this team should be a playoff team. That should be the standard this team and its leadership is held accountable to.”
So, then…, we agree? If 2011-2012 is the time-table, then why do we need to hustle around trying to find a stop-gap to fill minutes at the 2-guard spot NEXT YEAR? Find an undrafted FA/D-Leaguer/Bobby Brown to fill those minutes if we need another body. Beyond that, if I’m The Wolves’ brass, my only objective at the 2-3 spots in 2009-2010 is to get a conclusive idea of what we’ve actually got in Wayne Ellington and Corey Brewer. If they prove they can play, hooray. If they can’t play, at least we’ll have a high degree of confidence in that and we’ll be able to continue to build our roster.
Chad, you hire a coach that creates an offense that will allow for that. give them time alone on the court while the other is getting a breather. that sort of thing
what’s up w/ that jerry? you not covering here if Vegas this time? who is the Strib sending? doesn’t seem fair brother…if you need a place to stay I could put you up at my place…just would have to talk to the wife…
Jerry,
What did you find out about Gerald Henderson? The suspense is killing me.
Take it easy. It’ll probably be a couple of hours before we find out what the deal is with Henderson.
Wow, I can get trying those two together offensively, but defensively I would think it would be a nightmare. I am tired of having undersized guards that can’t guard anyone. I know Rubio is 6-4 or 6-5, but he isn’t going to be able to guard shooting guards. At least not for a few years. Hey, I could be wrong, I just don’t see it working. To bad, because I love both players individually.
Thanks. Lame on Charlotte’s part.
Sean - The best way for a team to “respect its fans” is to have a long-term plan, which David Kahn clearly does.
I’m still confused what you’re advocating for…
Jerry, Gerald Henderson — fact or speculation? Marty wants to know.
The Bobcats have killed their summer-league team to save money, so Henderson will play on the Wolves’ team because it’s short on shooting guards and Henderson can get plenty of playing time there.
I, too, was hoping they’d messed up and had a trade they were about to announce.
Cutting their summer league team? Are the Bobcats close to going Bankrupt?
Jerry, Gerald Henderson - hecho o de especulación? Marty quiere saber.
Foo — I’m not prejudging Ellington or Brewer at all. I’m saying that because they are question marks, you can’t rely on them. I’m saying that Ryan Gomes tends to be much better as 24 mpg player than a 32 mpg player. And I’m saying that Brian Cardinal isn’t really an option for consistent minutes at the 3.
Now, you may argue it’s better for this team to roll the dice and risk being really awful at those two positions in the hopes that guys like Ellington and Brewer are more likely to blossom than flop.
That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. I disagree. I’d rather hedge my bets a little bit and make a small move to bring in some help at the wing. There’s plenty of minutes there even if you add another player. If Ellington turns out to be the 14 ppg scorer you anticipate, he’s going to get his minutes.
I agree Wow…wow. Find a coach who can make them both work together.
Right now, I’d say Flynn is a much better player (IMHO). One thing he will bring is the ability to score at the end of close games, be a leader, and a shut down defender.
If it’s true Rubio doesn’t want to play with him, then maybe his camp is afraid Flynn will make him look bad.
Disappointing. And kind of inefficient isn’t it? Henderson is just going to take floor time and chemistry away from Ellington and Flynn, won’t he?
Foo, I don’t even know what you’re arguing for anymore.
“Find an undrafted FA/D-Leaguer/Bobby Brown to fill those minutes if we need another body.”
Well, yes, we do need another body. Whay do you want to make sure that the body they get belongs to a bad player? Just so it doesn’t rob Brewer and Ellington of minutes? We’ll, Brewer can split his minutes with Gomes at the 3, and Ellington will get enough minutes backing up a 2 with actual NBA experience. What are you protesting. We have potentially 4 PGs, and about a dozen PFs. Trade for a 2 who can help the team. Throw in one of our future picks (which we’d proabbly just trade next draft day for an even further off future pick) to get an even better guy. No one’s talking about moving a franchise building block.
Bobcats also are staying in town rather than go away for training camp. That proverbial belt is getting tightened down.
Sean,
If we field a bunch of hard working kids who play together, make progress and stay competitive, I think that’s all we can ask for. I won’t complain.
Last year we lost a lot of games because we didn’t have anyone to score at the end of games. This year we have Flynn, who I think is better than Foye and Miller at coming up with a basket. We shall see.
Staying in town as in Vegas? Or as in here?
Rubio, for Henderson and Gerald Wallace and next years pick no matter where it falls.
Sean - If we were a contending team, I would be standing arm-in-arm with you looking for The Wolves to “hedge their bets.”
But on a rebuilding team with a ceiling that is probably 30 wins max, what exactly would we be “hedging?”
It’s obvious we’re going to make more moves to balance out the roster, so I don’t know what you’re pushing for? Brewer and Ellington have to get big minutes next year to see what we’ve got in them. Unless there’s some other high-upside, young, innexpensive player out there that you think is readily attainable, I still don’t see what you’re clamoring for? Do you want a stop-gap with no upside? Do you want us to take the plunge into the FA market? Exactly how are you advocating that we supplement our current wing positions?
has anyone on here actually played basketball? has anyone on here actually had to guard a guy that was ever bigger faster or stronger than them?
I’ve played in competitive leagues before and i can honestly say, I’ve been able to destroy guys defensively that were bigger than me, or stronger or even faster than me, by just outworking them. all you have to do to be effective defensively is move you feet, get your hands up your butt down and move your feet. there are just as many chances for offensive players to get called for a pushoff than there is for a defensive guy getting called for having his body on the offensive player. those two will be fine defensively on the court at the same time. they just ahve to work
Are the Bobcats looking to dump salary? Wallace sure would fit in well with the new Wolves team.
probably charlotte, sean. just a guess
oops. bryan, sorry about that…for real.
fiveanddime - I’ve been pretty consistent that I want to go into the season with what we’ve got at the 2-3 positions… I’m not sure why you’d be confused about what I want.
Simply put, again, I don’t want to bring in a stop-gap, 1-year fix at SG… I’d rather take my lumps with what we’ve got.
I haven’t wavered on that at all… what are you confused about?
Rubio isn’t 6′5, he measured under 6′3 in socks. Plus he is so light I don’t think he could guard 10% of the starting SG’s in the league right now. Yes, he can grow and get bigger but he will get beaten up if he has to defend #2’s right off the bat.
jama, the bobcats are in the middle of selling the franchise, jordan is looking for a new finance group. my guess is that the current owner is buying some time
Sean: I don’t know what you’re after at this point, either. I get the feeling that we may not be too far apart. I’m happy if we get help at 2/3 provided the following conditions are met: 1) we give up no draft picks; 2) there are no adverse cap implications; 3) my 5 questions (basically, can our draft picks play?) get answered; and 4) we don’t do TOO well and end up losing our first rounder (very unlikely) or sacrificing much in the way of draft position (more likely).
No biggie wow
And I agree, I think defensively, Rubio and Flynn are at the least, viable in the long term, and possibly spectacular if they both reach potential. Both project to be great defenders already (Rubio is a 2-time DPotY in Spain and Flynn was reportedly by far the best defender at out big point guard workout) and at 18, Rubio could very possibly grow into a 6′6″ frame, and will probably fill out to about 200-210 lbs even at the height he is now.
And both are just so skilled defensively. Ricky has just unreal anticipation and timing and moves his feet very very well.
I totally agree wow. A guy with as quick feet as Flynn will have no trouble guarding the two’s or the one’s. Rubio would do fine too. Both are known as good defensive players.
That’s why I don’t think Curry would have been a good choice here.
Henderson y Ellington son buenos amigos, por lo que jugar juntos debe ser divertida para ellos. ¿Sí?
I’m really curious to see how Rubio does in the NBA. No doubt he has the skills. But in all the clips I saw (excluding the Olympics), all of his opponents seems as slow as molasses.
Will be interesting to see him against the lightning fast NBA players.
Madison Dan - I generally agree with most of your takes except for the hope that we “don’t do TOO well.” I get what you’re saying and think that the realistic route is that we won’t lose our own pick next year, but I have a hard time wanting to lose.
I would be more than happy to lose our 1st-rounder next year to LAC and win a lot of games. But, ONLY, under the condition that it isn’t done by adding zero-future guys like Michael Finley… If we somehow add another young future pillar (for next year and beyond) before the season begins and that results in us winning a lot of games, then that would be AWESOME. But I could care less about winning games with stop-gaps and short-term fixes. That would just hurt our long-term projection.
i just don’t get why some people on here, listen to what ESPN tells them, f/ experts that don’t watch game film on these guys and draw conclusions because well…he’s european, or he hasn’t had to guard the top level guys in the NBA before…well that can be said for 90% of the guys entering the NBA this year…there is a learning curve defensively…it’s that simple…really, rookies struggle defensively and gradually get better.
If Henderson and Ellington are good friends Ricky, then Ellington should tell Henderson to hold out until they trade him here
wow…WOW - I’ve played some ball. I’m 6′5″ but only about 180lbs. Growing up in small town central MN, I got put in the post mostly. I learned good footwork and anticipation against smaller players. In college I only played intermurals, but my team alway had me guard the other teams point because I had the wingspan and quickness to stay in front of him and make passing and driving that much more difficult.
Defense is as much about effort as it is about physical ability. Flynn and Rubio both have the chance to be very solid defenders.
Actually, Rubio is a capable defender. Flynn could develop very quickly into a strong on-ball defender.
Triebark, what high school did you go to?
exactly Triebark…thats why i don’t understand all the hating on these guys. okay so maybe it’s easier to get a shot off against a shorter defender, but that doesn’t mean its not a difficult shot given the position of the defender. you make a guy work to get his shot it doesn’t matter how tall the guys are.
C-note: Osakis High School
I agree Triebark. Corey Brewer, a feather weight if there is one, is a very good defender. Good balance lateral movement.
Foo — I’m not of the belief that the only players who have value are ones you want to keep for the next decade.
My point is that in balancing out the roster we shouldn’t be afraid to look at guys who may be “short term fixes” or “stop gaps” or whatever you want to call them. Yes, obviously, if we can acquire a guy who fits into the long-term plan, by all means do it!
But if that’s not available, I would argue that the more repsonsible way to balance out the roster is to make a small deal to get an established player on a short deal. I threw out some names earlier that were widely panned, but there’s several guys out there who could fill that bill.
I argue that it would be better for guys like Flynn, Jefferson, and Love to play next to an established player for a year (or even two) until the long-term solution emerges as opposed to picking from D-Leaguers and rookie free agents to fill out the roster.
Foo: I guess I haven’t done a great job of getting my point across, because I agree with everything you wrote. If our current set of players (or current set plus “young future pillar”) is good enough to win now, that’s about as good as it gets. I don’t want to see anyone tanking games.
Man, it’s weird to see this place so active. Do you consider that a blessing or a curse at this point, Jerry?
wow…WOW - in a lot of pick up games I got matched up with guys my height but about 20-30 pounds heavier. They’d try to post me and find that because I got good position and could still move my feet and keep my hands up, they couldn’t back be down or shoot over me easily.
Cool, I’m 6′4 and only about 160lbs and I had to play down low too and I would get destroyed by guys that had me by about 50lbs or so, lol. So to me the height isn’t the problem, its the weight and lowerbody strength that helps defend the bigger guys(me being a tall stick didn’t help) I played SG on offense but guarded the other teams tallest player on defense, lol
Ha…An Dukie and a Tar Heel on the same team.
Well, two UNC homers picked Henderson in the first place. Guess Gerald is just in for a strange NBA journey all around.
on a side note, the Magic should not resign Hedo and they should sign Rasheed Wallace then play:
Nelson
Carter
Lewis
Wallace
Howard
That would be a very balanced and good shooting starting 5
C-Note: I played PG in junior high at 5′7″, then grew 4 inches going into 9th grade and at 6′1″ found myself at PF or C. Then I grew another inch each year for the next four. I went to Moorhead for college, but had no aspirations to play ball there. Intermurals were fun though. Nice to be the best player on the court once in awhile. 
well it’s 1110pm here in Germany folks and time for me to sleep, i’ll check back in tomorrow.
Go Wolves!!
Foo/Dan — Let me also add that the deal of the scope that I’m proposing wouldn’t thrust this team into “win now” mode. It’s about picking guys who — to cop a Twins phrase — “play the game the right way” and can provide some guidance on the floor to a young team.
Madison - I’m with you. I don’t think either of us think it’s realistic that they’ll win too many games next year.
Sean - I don’t understand how it’s more “responsible” to bring in a big-minutes veteran. The most “responsible” way to build this team is to be a good steward over the assets we have accumulated, not blow them on a veteran who isn’t part of the long-term soluation.
But as for the general idea that veterans play an important role on rebuilding teams, I totally agree with you. Kevin Ollie filled that role admirably last year. He’s a pro’s pro, solid vet who was very good at teaching the ropes and nuances to younger players. Kevin Ollie has a ton of respect around the league.
I’d be fine with having a guy or two at his level - veterans who have been around the block a hundred times, are universally respected and understand that they are here to support The Wolves’ young pieces, not take their minutes. More importantly, Kevin Ollie was a street free agent who came in for the league minimum and didn’t cost us any flexibility or future assets.
A NBA team can go to war with a 9 man rotation,as long as their skills sets complament the big picture.With the unknown factors, whether Rubio will come over and how good our other draft choices truly are,it’s nice to have options in regards to trade options and playing time.Some years we have no options.It’s all part of the rebuilding process!
Well I agree we need a couple of veterans. But I don’t think we need to be making trades for that to happen.
Like at point guard…with Rubio, Flynn, Brown and Telfair, we definitely need a guy who can be a mentor to them. But why make a trade for that? Why not just try and bring back Kevin Ollie, or sign a low-cost free agent like him?
Why not do that at shooting guard too?
Bryan - we couldn’t be more on the same page as it relates to the type of veterans we need.
Time to feed the beast! New SI material on the Rubio situation:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/chris_mannix/06/30/rubio.notes/index.html?eref=sihpT1
It basically says that the presence of Flynn is Rubio’s problem with MN, and that other offers in Europe are his leverage.
I think we had this conversation the other day when I brought up bringing back Ollie as assistant coach or back up pg
Foo — I’m not suggesting the Wolves trade seven players for Tracy McGrady and then play him 38 minutes a night.
For example, the two players who I suggested wouldn’t be big minutes players. Finley has been at 28 minutes or less the last four years. Korver has played 24 minutes the last two years. You could easily split 96 minutes between Gomes, Brewer, Ellington, and the acquisition in a way that would give the young players ample opportunity to grow.
Who do you suggest would be able to fill that role at the 2/3 at a similar investment level as Kevin Ollie?
Jerry - your specualtion that Flynn & Rubio will never share the back court. could you expand? I saw your earlier entry that said you didn’t think Fegan would allow it. Has he said this to anyone? any of your sources? Seems like straight speculation with no actual reports that the Rubio or Flynn camp is displeased with the presence of another PG. You could be totally right but it just seems like the media has decided that Rubio is pissed about the drafting of Flynn.
also - why have you gone all negative on Khan. Everything started off as rainbows & bunny rabbits. Now you seem to have been taking some digs at him. What gives?
wow…WOW, I agree with your take on defense, especially as it concerns play in the post. For all the talk on here about our size deficiencies in the paint, man on man defense in that spot is all about effort, strength, and fighting over very small spaces of real estate. you beat your man to the block and keep him from getting the ball in too close. Once he has the ball you keep from being backed down. Your height doesn’t mean nearly as much , as evidenced by Jefferson’s ability to score around (not over) much bigger centers.
Of course, on the perimeter, effort is only going to get you so far when matched up against superior speed. I was never much of a player, and certainly never fast, but I’ve found myself in games where I’ve had to guard top notch talent. When I had to defend an ex-NBA player who was exactly my size, but had been known as one of the fastest guards in the league, there was no amount of hustle that was going to save me.
Korver is staying in Utah it looks like. I hate Bowen but if the Bucks cut him, he would be a good veteran guy to teach defense to our young guards
Just to add fuel to the speculation, check out what Jonny Flynn had to say on draft night.
http://dimemag.com/2009/06/jonny-flynn-draft-diary-episode-6/
gotta wait until the end to hear to good part…
Production on the court should be the only factor in determining playing time and a workable rotation.
Finley - just as good of a chance that Michael Jordan comes out of retirement to play here as Michael Finley would want to play in Minny at this point in his career. I do like Korver and if he opted out of his deal, I would have advocated signing him.
If Utah would be open to trading him for some of our worthless fodder, I’d be all for it. But we won’t be able to get Korver without giving up something of substance, which I have no interest in.
Not sure who I’d want in the Ollie mold - Ollie himself would be one. I’ve been advocating street free agents and D-Leaguers to fill out our roster - the theme here is that I want to round out our roster without giving up a shred of flexibility or even a single small asset. That’s how we got Ollie and it seems like cheap veterans are always out there late in the off-season.
More cowbell!!!! Fella’s could you provide some stats or info on these guys going to Vegas for us? Or where I could find it. Harris,Hill, Kurz,Green, and Siler? Jarry, thanks for the info…like Drewski said….we got fever.
Foo-what about Bowen if the Bucks cut him
C-Note - Bruce Bowen… great idea. If he wants to extend his career by a year or two, he could be a nice fit here in Minny.
That said, I actually read a few days ago that he was understandably bummed by that recent trade and was talking retirement.
I’d love to fill out our backcourt depth with Ollie and Bowen - two savvy veterans who know their times as big-minutes players have passed.
Yeah, then next year they would be gone to make room for Rubio and new draft pick
“It really was his prerogative: Bobby Brown back for 2009-10″ = Jerry Epic Title Win
deathgrip … go to the ESPN Top-100 prospects for this recent draft. Some of the guys on our summer-league roster were undrafted FAs.
I can’t access that right now for some reason, so feel free to post some of their pre-draft profiles on this board for us… I’d like to learn a bit more about them.
Harris, Siler and Woodside are the only ones I knew much about prior to the draft.
Has anyone heard Flynn complain about the Wolves picking two point guards? I haven’t. Granted, he may not have the same options that Rubio does, but I love the fact that he doesn’t seem to mind competing for time / sharing the court with Rubio.
I haven’t heard Rubio complain about it either. In his teleconference, Ricky actually seemed to like the idea, saying he played with another point guard when he first started professionally, and that he felt it makes the game easier.
I think, like Jerry said, the talk that Flynn is a problem is coming from Dan Fegan, not Rubio.
Checkitout, nice link. If I were a betting man my guess would be that Flynn stays. That was an interesting statement Flynn made.
Foo-
Rob Kurx played for the Warriors last year, so you can access his profile. He did pretty well in the time he got…he can shoot all the way out to three and still legitimately hold his own defensively at the power forward spot. He’d be pretty useful for us.
I guess Mannix cites “Rubio’s camp” not Rubio himself. Still, removing the implied knock on Rubio, I like what I see from Flynn.
If he is a PF that doesn’t help us much Bryan
Actually it does, because Kurz offers us something completely different from the power forwards we have….shooting range and shot blocking.
But he won’t actually play in the regular season unless some people get moved
I’m ok with that. I’d rather field Kurz’s shooting that overlap Love and Jefferson with Craig Smith.
Etan Thomas, Brian Cardinal and Smith will all probably be gone by season’s end anyway.
I am counting the days until Brian Cardinal is gone.
I am counting the days until Bryan is gone.
I don’t think you can count high enough for that Arenal. You’ll run out of fingers and toes after just three weeks.
If you really want bios on the summer-league guys, here they are:
Corey Brewer
Selected in the first round (7th overall pick) by Minnesota in the 2007 NBA Draft… Signed a three-year rookie contract with Minnesota (7/10/07)… Saw his second NBA campaign truncated after suffering a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee Nov. 29 vs. Denver; he underwent surgery on Dec. 17 and missed the season’s final 67 contests… Played in 15 games (including eight starts) prior to the injury, averaging 6.2 ppg and 3.3 rpg in 20.5 mpg while shooting 41.4% from the floor and 73.7% from the line… Also went 5-for-12 (41.7%) from beyond the arc, after hitting 19.4% (7-for-36) of his trey attempts as a rookie… Completed his rookie season by appearing in 79 games, including 35 starts… Averaged 5.8 ppg while hitting 37.4% from the floor and 80.0% from the FT line in 22.8 mpg; he also grabbed 3.7 rpg and ranked 4th among rookies in steals (0.96 spg)… Finished with a flourish, tallying 9.8 ppg (48.3%) and 6.3 rpg in the last four games, with Minnesota going 3-1… Averaged 9.8 points, 4.4 rebounds and 3.0 assists in five games with the Timberwolves’ entry in the 2008 Las Vegas Summer League… Averaged 11.0 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 3.0 apg and 30.8 mpg in five contests with the Timberwolves’ entry in the 2007 Las Vegas Summer League… Was a member of Florida’s National Championship teams in 2006 and 2007 when the Gators became the first school to post back-to-back titles in 15 years… Finished his career as Florida’s all-time scoring leader in the NCAA Tournament with 198 points.
Bobby Brown
Not drafted by an NBA franchise out of California State Fullerton… Signed by Charlotte to the Bobcats summer league team (7/10/07)… Played for New Orleans in the NBA Summer League and subsequently signed by the Kings as a free agent (7/25/08)… Traded by the Kings along with Shelden Williams to Minnesota in exchange for Calvin Booth and Rashad McCants (2/19/09)… Saw action in 21 games for the Wolves as a rookie, tallying 5.5 ppg (41.6%) and 1.4 apg in 12.2 mpg, while drawing seven DNP-CDs… Went 14-for-36 (38.9%) from long distance, bumping his full-season accuracy to 34.6% (45-for-130); he’d appeared in 47 contests with the Kings… Shot 44.9% from the floor over his final 14 appearances, including 9-for-23 from three-point range; he reached double figures on 12 occasions overall (six with Minnesota)… Averaged 16.9 ppg (.428 FG%, .377 3pt%, .789 FT%), 2.5 rpg, 4.4 apg, and 1.31 spg in 116 collegiate games (started 103) at Cal State Fullerton… Finished career as the Titan’s all-time leading scorer (1,961 points), ranking ninth in Big West Conference history… Also ranks first in Fullerton annals in career three-pointers made (307) and third in assists (516).
Pat Carroll
Not drafted by an NBA franchise out of St. Joseph’s University… Since leaving the Hawks, he has played professionally in Europe including in the Spanish LEB Gold league most recently with Tenerife Rural in 2008-09… Appeared in 22 games and averaged 10.1 points and 1.7 rebounds in 22.1 minutes per game… Shot 46.2 percent from the floor, 40.3 percent from three-point range and 90.0 percent on free throws… Appeared in 110 games during his collegiate career, earning 99 starts… Left St. Joseph’s with career averages of 12.0 ppg and 3.3 rpg on 44.8 percent shooting from the floor… Finished career as Saint Joseph’s all-time leader in three-point field goals (294), three-point attempts (661) and three-point percentage (44.5%).
Wayne Ellington
Selected in the first round (28th overall pick) by Minnesota in the 2009 NBA Draft… Appeared in 38 games (37 starts) as a junior for the North Carolina Tarheels in 2008-09, averaging 15.8 points and 4.9 rebounds per contest… Led the Tarheels with 85 three-pointers, the fifth highest single season total in UNC history… Ranked third in the ACC in three-point percentage (41.7%), sixth in three-pointers per game (2.2), eighth in field goal percentage (48.3%) and 13th in scoring (15.8 ppg)… Named Most Outstanding Player of the 2009 Final Four as UNC won the National Championship… Finished collegiate career with 14.7 ppg on 46.3 percent shooting, as well as 39.7 percent from behind the arc.
Jonny Flynn
Selected in the first round (6th overall pick) by Minnesota in the 2009 NBA Draft… Averaged 17.4 points and 6.7 assists in 38 games last season as a sophomore for the Syracuse Orange… Earned All-Big East Second Team honors as well as being an AP All-America Honorable Mention… A finalist for the Bob Cousy Award, which honors the nation’s top point guard… Played 1,418 minutes last season, setting a school single-season record while tying the mark for games played with 38… Scored in double figures in 64 of his 73 career games… His 439 career assists in just two seasons are good for seventh in Syracuse history.
Devin Green
Not drafted by an NBA franchise out of Hampton… Played in eight games with Base Oostende in Belgium last season, averaging 12.6 points, 4.4 rebounds and 2.0 steals in 28.9 minutes per game… Signed with Siviglia Wear Teramo of the Italian League in February 2008… Averaged 10.6 points, 5.3 rebounds and 2.1 assists in 26.4 minutes… Shot 42.6 percent from the floor, as well as 80.0 percent from the free-throw line… Started 2007-08 with the L.A. D-Fenders of the NBA D-League, averaging 16.4 points and 6.4 rebounds in 35 minutes per game… Shot 48.9 percent from the floor and 79.1 percent from the free-throw line.
Paul Harris
Not drafted by an NBA franchise out of Syracuse… Played in 37 games as a junior for the Syracuse Orange last season, starting 36… Averaged 12.0 points on 49.4 percent shooting from the floor while grabbing 7.8 rebounds per game… Named to the All-Big East Second Team after averaging 14.5 points, 8.2 rebounds and 3.3 assists as a sophomore… Earned Big East All-Rookie Team honors with averages of 8.6 points and 7.1 rebounds as a freshman in 2006-07… Finished collegiate career with 11.7 points and 7.8 rebounds per game in 107 games, 72 starts… One of 15 Syracuse players to finish career with at least 1,000 points and 800 rebounds.
Gerald Henderson
Selected in the first round (12th overall pick) by Charlotte in the 2009 NBA Draft… Led Duke in scoring as a junior with 16.5 ppg while ranking second in rebounds (4.9 rpg), assists (2.5 apg), and field-goal percentage (45.0%)… Scored in double figures in 31 games, including 10 games with 20 or more… Earned both Third Team All-American and First Team All-ACC honors… Ranks 39th in school history with 1,262 points and 20th in blocks with 69… Averaged 12.3 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.8 apg on 45.8 percent shooting in 103 games (79 starts) during his collegiate career.
Steven Hill
Not drafted by an NBA franchise out of Arkansas… Signed by the Oklahoma City Thunder in November 2008… Appeared in one game with Oklahoma City before being sent to the Tulsa 66ers in the NBA D-League… Averaged 9.6 points, 7.2 rebounds and 2.8 blocks in five games (three starts) with the 66ers… Scored two points and grabbed three rebounds in only NBA action prior to being waived in December 2008… Named SEC Defensive Player of the Year as a junior with Arkansas, finishing second in the conference with 2.8 blocks per game… Finished collegiate career with averages of 4.0 points, 3.3 rebounds and 2.4 blocks in 19.5 minutes per game.
Rob Kurz
Not drafted by an NBA franchise out of Notre Dame… Signed by the Golden State Warriors in November 2008… Appeared in 40 games (five starts) as a rookie for Golden State, averaging 3.9 points and 2.0 rebounds in 11.1 minutes per game… Shot 38.9 percent from the floor and 39.5 percent from three-point range… Appeared in 108 games (75 starts) during collegiate career with Notre Dame… Named team captain for both his junior and senior seasons, one of 18 players in school history to be team captain twice… Started all 33 games as a senior, reaching double figures scoring 22 times and posting eight double-doubles.
Oleksiy Pecherov
Selected by Washington with the 18th overall pick in the 2007 NBA Draft… Averaged 3.6 points and 1.9 rebounds in 35 games during his rookie season… Scored 10 points and grabbed a career-high 10 rebounds in a career-high 39 minutes at Orlando on April 16, 2008, marking the first double-double of his career… Averaged 3.6 points and 2.4 rebounds in 32 games during the 2008-09 season, including four games with 10+ points… Played for BC Kyiv in 2006-07 and helped his team reach the Superleague semifinals… Played for Paris Basket Racing in 2005-06 and averaged 11.2 points and 6.3 rebounds in 21.0 minutes per game… Played for BK Politekhnik Kharkov in 2003-04 before moving up to BC Kyiv in the Ukrainian Superleague.
Garrett Siler
Not drafted by an NBA franchise out of Augusta State… Started all 35 games last season and averaged 16.2 ppg, 7.7 rpg and 2.6 bpg in 26.8 mpg… Led team in shooting percentage (78.9%), rebounds (271) and blocks (90) while finishing second in points (566)… Earned All-Peach Belt Conference honors for the third consecutive season… Led Division II in field goal percentage in each of his final three seasons, finishing his career with an NCAA-record 74.5 percent shooting percentage… As junior in 2007-08, led conference in field goal percentage (76.2%), rebounding (7.8), and blocked shots (2.62).
Ben Woodside
Not drafted by an NBA franchise out of North Dakota State… Started all 118 games of his college career with the North Dakota State Bison, averaging 19.6 points, 5.4 assists and 1.5 steals per game… Led the Bison in scoring (23.2), assists (6.2) and free-throw percentage (84.0%) as a senior in 2008-09, while ranking second in steals (1.4) and three-point percentage (42.7%)… Hit game-winning shot in the Summit League Tournament Final to earn NDSU’s first ever NCAA tournament appearance… Named AP All-America Honorable Mention as senior… Earned Summit League Player of the Year honors in 2008-09 and named to the First Team All-Summit League as both a junior and senior… Finished his collegiate career as NDSU’s leader in points (2,315), free throws made (687) and games played (118) while ranking second in field goals made (700) and assists (640).
Geez, that’s longer than your original blog post Jerry.
I assume Love’s commitment to Team USA is what’s keeping him off the roster? Or does the team just not see the need?
thanks jerry
Love doesn’t need summer league !
The intensity of Rubio-madness itself has got to be making it more likely he plays for the Wolves this year, right? If I were an 18 year old Spanish sensation I’d be pretty excited about all the national speculation, and even more keyed about getting on the floor in front of an American audience. In this way, the NY hype media might be working against itself. Kahn clearly holds the cards in this and I think we’d be crazy to trade the Rubik’s Cube away at this point; the kid will sell tickets and make the Wolves relevant again.
Love don’t need the stinking summer league.
It would still be nice to see him play if he’s available. Everyone can use more practice.
I’m going with the Rubik’s Cube as my official Rubio nickname for now. I always try to push Hungarian references. Any other Rubio nicknames out there? How about the Spanish Ruby?
That must equal 2 extra comp days for Jerry with the length of that post.
Everyone needs to quit with the wanting worthless veterans on the team. They are called assistant coaches every other place.
Jerry, no speculation, your work is superb. I petition your boss to give you an 11% increase in pay post haste. Why 11% you may ask? Because that is Jonny’s number.
wow…WOW - I was 6′, 150 as a senior in HS, 6th man type whom the coach decided finally to switch from guard to forward. I had to guard 6′3″, 200 lb all-conference guys, and I’m proud to say I shut them down better than anyone and seriously got them in foul trouble as they tried to get position on me (I worked my ass off on defense).
It’s all about effort. Or at least it is still so much about effort that “matchups” don’t account for much of the variation in defensive play unless they’re extreme. If everyone worked their asses off, then strength and height and quickness differences would matter more.
And still it wouldn’t matter on which continent you were born.
Keeping Love away form the Vegas buffets is a wise move.
Keeping your fat mom off the street corners would be a wise move for you Gendo.
Regarding Rubio, does this sound familar with regard to Fegan’s negotiating strategy?
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/19534023/
SportsTicker
updated 11:25 a.m. CT, Sun., July 1, 2007
NEW YORK - Yi Jianlian’s representatives are still working to prevent him starting his NBA career in Milwaukee after the Bucks drafted him sixth overall in New York on Thursday.
Yi did not travel to Milwaukee for the customary post-draft introduction, saying he needed to head to Dallas to join the Chinese national team, but behind the scenes his agents are seeking a trade away from the Bucks.
Yi is due to play for China when they compete in the NBA’s summer league, starting with Friday’s game against the Dallas Mavericks.
…Asked about his plans, Yi said that game was his only immediate priority.
“Within the next few days I will join the Chinese national team in Dallas and train with them to prepare for the upcoming NBA Summer League,” he told Chinese reporters. “Based on the timing, I have no chance to go to Milwaukee.”
If his agents have their way, Yi will not travel to Milwaukee at all. Before the draft, Yi’s camp had prevented him from working out for the Bucks as they did not want him to be drafted by a small market team, especially one from a city without a significant Chinese population.
Yi had attracted interest from several teams prior to Thursday’s draft, and his agents now hope to engineer a trade for the 22-year-old forward.
“Our agent team had meetings to study this case immediately after the draft,” said Yi’s Chinese agent Zhao Gang. “Yi’s selection at six has proved his capabilities and value.
“However, we feel that the Bucks are not the best fit for Yi Jianlian. Our team will make contact with other teams who have watched Yi’s training and games to see if there is any possibility of a trade.”
Some reports had suggested that Yi would refuse to travel to Wisconsin and, if no deal was done, would instead return to the Chinese Basketball Association rather than beginning his NBA career.
Special feature
Draft HQ NBA
Round by round, team grades and more
However, his club in China, the Guangdong Tigers, has denied this will happen.
“Though the final result of the negotiations and communications are uncertain, I can guarantee that whatever the outcome is, it could not be so bad that Yi will be back to play in the CBA,” said Liu HongJiang, deputy general manager of the Guangdong Hongyuan Basketball Club.
End result: Yi signs/plays for Bucks
My gosh Marty, that sounds exactly like the RR deal. Thank you Foo for the info on Vegas guys, and many thanks Jerry for your input on the Vegas guys….I appreciate the extensive data. Sounds like there may be some help available there in spite of competition level being lower. Interesting to follow them and see if we get some sleepers.
Jerry, I second the invitation offered above to expound on your “they will never share the same backcourt” assertion. In the haze of misinformation characterizing the national sports media, some clarity on what exactly you mean here would be most welcome. Is this from the gut or is it sourced material?
Arenal can’t you do better than weak yo mamma material? I’m disappointed.
All we’ve heard about is Rubio, and how Jonny will be affected with or without Rubio. I want to hear more about Woodside, whom the wolves should give a contract to RIGHT NOW. After he displays some of his shooting talents, it’s going to be too late. Kahn get on it.
Foo, I take back the rip on you about Wayne Ellington from last night. After looking at his numbers last year, that was a pretty good pick. Rubio at 40% shooting from the 3 pt line is also a real positive.
Make the ball inside the basket, lol.-See video
Jerry could you report on Love’s status with the Wolves Summmer League Team?
Also I like what FOO said earlier and i have been mentioning it for a long time…. get Pops Mensabonsu on the fricking summer league team the guy can play
Jerry please talk about Pops Mensabonsu.
and where he is at
Pops is w/ Spurs I thought…
Played w/ Spurs & Dallas last year…
Also Raptors….
Dallas was a few years ago. My bad
Pops is a restricted free agent with the Raptors now.
Tyler, I can report on Love’s status with the Wolves Summer League Team.
He won’t be there. There’s absolutely no reason. He played well as a rookie, got (and will continue to get) significant minutes, and the team knows what they have in him. They’re gonna save him for the real NBA.
Nearly all sophomore’s regardless of where they were picked or how they did, play in the summer league. Usually only the rookie of the year sits it out. Michael Beasley and Russell Westbrook will be participating in their teams’ respective summer leagues.
I’d bet being on the select Team USA squad has a lot more, if not all, to do with Love not being on the squad. Conflicting schedules…same reason it looks like OJ Mayo won’t play for the Grizzlies this summer.
I was a 6′1″ 170 lb. post player on a high school intramural team called The Hack Attack (true story).
While I went for genuine blocks and boards with my (little bit) longer than usual wingspan (but zero vertical jump), some of my teammates were more direct with their Bad Boy style defense. The refs from the varsity squad would just look away. Now that’s old school defense that doesn’t get played anymore.
On my college co-ed intramural team at the U, my three person team got beat pretty badly once at the old fieldhouse by a three person team that was mostly women. They were good and they knew how to play defense.
Thank you Jerry.
There is clamouring on my part for the summer league roster because I want to know where Tyrese Rice went, and because This team needs a center, and a SG/SF, and I’m hoping that we can get someone off of the summer league roster for us or someone else to keep the price minimal, and basically just be healthy bodies.
But honestly the more that I think about it, Mark Madsen should lead this team in minutes played this season. That should guarantee us a top 3 pick.
I averaged 47 PPG, 21 RPG & 11 BPG in a Summer League season once.
And it wasn’t really hard work. I was just naturally talented. Plus I broke barriers…being the first able footed person in a wheelchair basketball league to average a triple double.
Seriously ? We’re talking about our own B-ball achievements ?!
I’d rather hear crazy trade proposals !
That’s why I had to chime in with the intramural stuff. Good job on triple double, though Swan.
I averaged it for a whole season…the Big O style….
I’m going to ESPN right now to try and find the absolute worst trade possible on the Trade Machine that is actually accepted…
Alright. For a more productive subject. . .
What do people think about Yao’s injury and the potential for such a thing to happen to other large bodied players such as Greg Oden who is brought up as a potential trade piece from time to time?
I have a question for the regulars:
2010 has a lot of big free agent names, that we probably won’t be able to get. But what if we used our money to sign Michael Redd to a 5 year deal? He is only 28 or 29 right now and he would be the dead eye shooter we need. So 2010:
1. Flynn
2. Redd
3. Brewer/Gomes/ or draft pick
4. Love
5. Jefferson
and who know maybe Rubio in there
C-Note - Absolutely…..not.
Sorry to the rest of the board for having to reference Bill Simmons but there really haven’t been all that many excellent wings who have extended their shelf life past the 31-32-33 range…I believe he only mentions 3…Jordan, Miller, Allen. Those are the only guys who didn’t have a big drop off.
I think Redd could be the Ray Allen type, I don’t want to give him max money but we won’t be able to get Wade, Lebron, Bosh or anyone like that and if they spend it on T-Mac I would cry. He has played over 70 games in 6 of his 8 years. (The first year he didn’t play much as a rookie, so I didn’t count that one) I know he got hurt last year but if he stays healthy and has a good year, why not throw a 5 year $50 million deal at him?
Facial - No way on Oden ! I’m wary of bigs that have have multiple injuries.
Also, Oden……..Thats why people here need to eat their own butt for the Roy - Foye trade. As good as that was, the Oden over Durant debacle is far far far worse
There aren’t a lot of bigs I’d want to trade for because they’ll cost too much.
I refer to Redd for the 5 year $50 million deal, not T-mac if I didn’t make that clear
I’ve been out all night and just stepped in and caught up…
Thank You, Swan, for getting after the folks talking about their own small-town varsity, intramural, YMCA, or Has-Been Old-Guy League (The famed HBOGL) hoops accomplishments.
yeah, I’m with you Swan on Oden he would have to show me he can play at least 75 games in each of the next two years before I would want to trade anything for him
Nah…forget Redd. Make some contract offers to resticted and unrestricted FA next year….work sign and trades etc…
Garrett Siler - A “Poor-Man’s Oliver Miller.”
Get that guy in the D-League.
Redd has averaged more than 20ppg each of the last 6 years without a great low post option, Bogut was ok for 2 of those years but think of the #’s Redd could put up with Al and Love on the blocks. It would be someone who is a dead eye shooter and actually shoots unlike MM
C-Note - The problem with that is if he shows that he can play 75 games a year his price goes up….
Foo what do you think about Redd as our Free agent acquistion next year?
Yeah Swan and then Portland probably wouldn’t trade him anyways, lol
Never been a huge fan of Redd’s… always seemed too one dimensional. I would also have some trepidation that we’d be paying him for what he’s done in the past and then be disappointed over what production he still has in the tank.
I don’t know - I can’t offer anything too concrete on him, but I’ve just never been a huge fan.
Sorry I can’t bring anything more tangible to the table.
Just to clarify:
I’m not a fan of trading for Oden either. I also see him as an injury prone “bigger than normal” person. I can’t remember who it was, but some people keep suggesting trading for him.
I think the Yao situation is proof that one should be leery.
The problem with Redd, beyond being a little outside of the correct age range (he’ll be 30 when the season starts), is that he’s injured. He had a really bad ACL/MCL tear last season. I don’t think he’s going to be healthy for many full seasons going forward.
One of my good friends is a Bucks fan from Eau Claire and even he doesn’t want Redd, if that tells you anthing C-Note.
What I’m hearing from my Bucks’ friends is that Redd’s injury last year was very serious and that they don’t think he’s even tradeable at this point. Something overlooked on the Bucks-Wolves rivalry is that it can become the Rubio-Jennings rivalry as well.
As someone who has to read Bucks coverage, I can confidently say: no to Redd. No defense, they played better when he was hurt.
I guess, but I was just looking at the free agent list and I don’t think we can get anybody of value, T-Mac don’t want and everyone else that is good won’t come here, now I’m off to cry myself to sleep 
Did Kahn really say we were not going to contend for a playoff spot for 2 to 3 years? Even if it is true, why would you say that? How are the players you need to develop going to stay motivated, particularly Jefferson?
I think Kahn is just setting a low bar. With Yao gone, Dallas getting old, Phoenix quitting, and even New Orleans questionable I’d say the West is wide open — there are right now only five guaranteed playoff teams in the division with LAL, Portland, Utah, Denver, and SA. Yes, Dallas and NO will probably be there, and Houston too, but with a little teamwork and good hustle the Wolves can be in mix next season for one of the last playoff spots– with Rubio or without. If we can pick up any defensive presence in the middle to relieve AJ and Love for some minutes, and add one other shooter, then I am looking forward to this team, even with J. Flynn starting at PG.
Good point, Mike B. Perhaps Kahn should play that up to Rubio given that Jennings did pretty much dis’ him.
I just heard that Kahn was busted for a sexual harassment suit in Portland when he worked for the paper there. Anyone else know anything about it? I was just starting to think the guy was OK, and then I hear this. Anyone know anything else?
We don’t have money to sign any free agents anyway except to the exemptions. Pick up a vet like Finley on a one-year deal who can knock down a few open shots, and see if there are any big men available that we could use for 15 minutes a game.
What if Jennings and Rubio play this year and Jennings get ROY and Rubio blows, OMG that would kill me, even though I liked Jennings game just not his attitude
A lot of people have already said they don’t want Finley, I wanted Redd next year when we would be closer to making a run at it
Lets just say the Bucks are lucky they put an offer out to Sessions because Jennings still gonna be raw for a few years…
I finally looked at the Free Agent list. I retract the Finley comment. How about Von Wafer? At center ZaZa would be awesome, but I’m sure Atlanta will keep him. Realistically, I’d throw small dollars at DJ Mbenga. I thought he looked decent when playing the TC last year, just doesn’t get much opportunity on the Lakers. He would only have to play about 15 minutes for us.
We could old school Wolves with signing Wally and Rasho. I’d be all four offering the league minimum to McCants. Now that we got rid of Foye, McCants might have a useful role again. His numbers were decent when Foye was hurt in 2007-2008, and basically dropped off the map when Foye returned. Plus, my wife wants to hear the guy at the TC that yells out “Shaddy” as loud as he can whenever he gets in the game. We need a player to heckle. Next year we’ll start picking on Telfair and I don’t think the kid really deserves it.
Or how about we just re-sign Carney, who seemed to have some consistency hitting open threes last year.
Plus, Rashad could come back and share an apartment with his sister, Rashanda. Is she any good? Does she even play here? I still love McCants for three years ago saying on the radio that it was basically a three year plan for the Wolves reaching the finals. Loved it. Hilarious.
Oh oh. It sounds like Mike B. might be having a couple to celebrate the fact that we finally have two Senators again?
I mean, I am so I don’t blame him. 
I don’t think we want McCants back maybe Rasho, is he possible the best Center we have ever had, that doesn’t say much for us
Ric Bucher’s recent FA story - top-20 FAs and the best fit for each.
Bucher only listed The Timberwolves as a good fit for one of his Top-20: BEN GORDON!
Wow… I don’t know if I agree because he’s an enormous liability on defense, but it was an interesting note.
OK… obviously I’m reading up on ESPN’s NBA coverage tonight. Chris Sheridan listed the 15-worst contracts in The NBA … 1/3 of the players/contracts listed have ties to The Wolves:
3. Marko Jaric ($7.1 million against Memphis’ cap)
Four years after the fact, it continues to boggle the mind that Minnesota’s Kevin McHale included a future No. 1 draft pick when he obtained Jaric from the Clippers in a sign-and-trade for Sam Cassell. The Wolves still owe that pick to Los Angeles, and it has lottery protection through the 10th pick that comes off for the 2012 draft. Our crystal ball also tells us Jaric will have a prominent spot on this list a year from now, when he’ll be owed $7.625 million. The newly acquired Quentin Richardson and his $8.7 million salary come off the books next summer.
4. Mark Blount ($7.97 million against Miami’s cap)
Back when Pat Riley thought Ricky Davis would help the Miami Heat get back into title contention, he agreed to surrender a first-round pick (the one the Wolves used on Ty Lawson last week) and take on Blount’s monster contract in order to get the deal done. The Heat, despite Blount’s ballast, still would have been major players in free agency this summer had they not dealt Shawn Marion to Toronto for Jermaine O’Neal, who is on the books for the upcoming season at a whopping $23.016 million.
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8. Samuel Dalembert ($12.02 million against Philadelphia’s cap)
Want to know why Billy King is appearing regularly on NBA TV these days while Ed Stefanski is the man at the controls of the Philadlephia 76ers? Because of the litany of exorbitant deals the Sixers gave out under King’s and Larry Brown’s watch (Eric Snow, Aaron McKie, Kenny Thomas) — one of the worst of which was King’s alone: Dalembert’s six-year, $64 million deal in the summer of 2005. Still to be determined is whether the Sixers will regret that signing more than last summer’s signing of Elton Brand.
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13. Brian Cardinal ($6.75 million against Minnesota’s cap)
He doesn’t have much game left, but Cardinal still is living large off the largesse Jerry West was throwing around in the summer of 2004 with Memphis, when he bestowed a six-year contract on a role player coming off one overachieving season in Golden State. Of course, that happened only 12 months after West traded the rights to Kendrick Perkins and Marcus Banks to Boston for the rights to Troy Bell and Dahntay Jones — not a good year for “The Logo,” whose successor, Chris Wallace, took on the Jaric contract in order to rid himself of Cardinal’s contract in last year’s Mike Miller trade.
14. Marcus Banks ($4.5 million against Toronto’s cap)
NBA veteran Malik Rose once told me a story about how NBA players had a term for players who stopped producing immediately after signing a big contract. They called it “signed and retired,” and Banks embodies that. And no Banks entry can exclude the story of how Phoenix gave him that four-year, $18 million contract the same year they drafted Rajon Rondo and traded his rights to Boston. Rondo will make just $2.1 million next season, while Banks will be on his third team since then, unless Toronto somehow manages to move him.
As for Kevin Love, I think they just felt he had nothing to gain by going out there, that had proved enough in his rookie season and played enough that he could didn’t have to labor out there for a week and that the risk of injury wasn’t worth the benefit. I don’t think they ever planned for him to go out there.
McFly, that’s what differentiates a blog from a news story. I’m free to speculate all I like. Without that, it’d be pretty boring, wouldn’t it?
I think the two point guards thing is an issue with both Flynn and Rubio. Neither guy’s agent has returned calls, but people I trust in the league say that’s the word, and really just common sense. I mean, how’s it going to work to play two guys whose game is making decisions with the ball in their hands? As for Flynn not complaining about it, check out what looks like an authentic Twitter account tell me if you think that June 28 comment is real.
http://twitter.com/CuseNFHS10
I think it’s real. My editors wouldn’t let it in my “Wolves Insider” for tomorrow’s paper because we couldn’t verify its authenticity.
My comments on those five bad contracts:
*3-4. Jaric/Blount- Gotta continue to heap praise on McHale and the old regime. Yes, McHale also brought those guys in to start with… But to be able to spin those contracts off on Miami/Memphis were two coups.
*8. Samuel Dalembert - Can you Dalembert fans PLEASE stop clammoring for this guy?
*13. Brian Cardinal - the only reason why it’s not a bad thing that he’s on The Wolves’ roster is because we got him in exchange for Jaric… I’d say that was a great swap. The best thing about it: Cardinal’s contract will be gone in a year; Jaric is still gonna tie up Memphis cap-space for two more years!
14. Marcus Banks - A few years earlier, McHale would have been the one who signed Banks, just like he signed Troy Hudson. Great move to let this dude walk.
Foo - uh, Jaric/Blount cost us Wally, Cassell, two 1st rounders, Mayo, and the honor of having Ricky Davis. McHale dug himself 1/20th out of the hole he created wrt these guys.
Im sorry for going back a ways, but I love the Michael Redd idea! But I just think that the Wolves would be better off choosing between Big Al or K-Love and using the other as trade bait to aquire another piece or 2. Dont get me wrong, I really do like both of them, but they are each undersized for their current position. I know I keep saying this, but we need Cole Aldrich in next years draft! Though only 6 11, he has that thick, large body, much like Dwight Howard, who is also just 6 11, and still one of the most dominent centers in the league, if not THE most dominant. Cole Aldrich=poor mans Dwight Howard, but that may just be my opinion…
Jerry, it looks real, but it also looks innocuous enough. Hell, a sudden surge of adrenalin could make me say, “Move over Flynn and Rubio, Twinstalker’s lacin’ back up!”
I’d imagine some buddy and he were talking and working themselves up over the fact that Flynn’s pretty damn good. That’s when you go to bed and wake up the next morning saying, “what was I so worked up about last night?”
thanks for clarifying where the speculation is coming from Jerry! Now speculate some more. Which one gets dealt? & do you think Kahn would deal Flynn if Fegan gave him an umtimatum? Or said we will come as soon as Flynn is gone?
Jerry, looks legit to me. I don’t see any way both these guys coexist in the same back court. And with the pieces in place now Flynn looks like a more natural fit with big Al in the post. Unless the next coach wants to run and gun, but Jefferson, Love, Gomes, Smith and others don’t really fit that offense.
If I had to guess, I’d say Ricky gets dealt because he should extract a higher price, although if Fegan were to say we’ll work it out, signed sealed and delivered if Flynn’s gone, then that could change things. The question is how much will Kahn’s leverage, particularly with dealing Flynn, change as this thing plays out.
The big thing to watch is if Rubio’s camp hooks him up long term with a European team with no, and or an impossible, out. That’s what they’re probably threatening to force some kind of action, but whether they ever go through with it…IF they’re serious about it and other teams know the spot the Wolves are in…
Also, though, remember just five days ago, Ricky was saying “I want to play in the NBA.” It’s important to remember that. The rest is all posturing, I’m guessing.
If that Flynn Twitter thing is real, I’d say it’s more revealing than just boasting. My sense is that both of them were saying what in the world after they were drafted side-by-side Thursday.
Every player would love a team to say, you’re the only one who will ever play this position. We will build the team around you your highness. All your wishes are our commands.
But here on planet Earth, it doesn’t really work that way. Make the players come in and earn it. Be professionals.
Do we think Stephen Curry would have been thrilled to be Rubio’s sidekick? How about Evans?
Give me a break with all this nonsense. Sign them, put them on the court. Make them play together. See what happens.
Then go from there.
Evans and Rubio would have been more complementary, wouldn’t they? Ricky and Curry would have been, too, but you’d get killed defensively. I don’t see that this combo is complementary. I think that’s the nonsense.
Kahn saying the two can play together is likely posturing too. My guess is he intended to trade one of them on draft night (like he told Leon Rose) & then couldn’t work out a deal. Then when a deal wasn’t done he had to go into spin mode. He can’t come out & say he intended to deal one of them without killing trade value. I think he got caught with his pants down - he had a PG he wanted to trade & no trade partner.
I think the best example is the reaction of a couple thousands fans at Target Center that night. For 10 minutes, there was absolute jubilation, from the moment Tyreke Evans’ name was announced for Sacramento until Flynn’s name was called out. Then there was just mostly this stunned silence, a very Timberwolfish moment in which fans who for such a brief time felt such a reason to believe again asked themselves, “What have we done?” You could feel it in the building. It was palpable, it was real and I think it’s a reaction you can trust.
Not sure I agree about Evans. He’s the one who’s call the most ball dominant player in the draft. Doubt he’d be too thrilled to hand the ball to the Spaniard.
Totally agree about Curry and the defensive liability.
I’m not disagreeing that it’s a little awkward. But to me it’s like having two good QB’s. Sometimes everyone has to be big boys and deal with it. May the best man win.
To me it was very clear we draft the two best players on the board (I even think possibly in the whole draft… not a huge Griffin fan myself).
You might be right about Evans, but how much of that impression about him is the fact that’s what Calipari needed him to do last year and told him to do. Evans strikes me as a true scorer and might be very very happy having those opportunities created for him without the ball always in his hands. I’m not sold that’s completely his game or he’ll thrive playing that way in the NBA.
If you drafted one to play behind the other and not together as starters, then you wasted a very high pick, didn’t you?
Flynn definitely fits better next to Al. But I think it’s still really difficult to pick between them. They both bring such different things to the table. And while Flynn is probably more ready to play and is definitely more willing and a better fit here, Rubio really could be that once-in-a-generation guy.
I’d hate for this to become a one or the other situation, but if it does, I have no doubt Kahn will take Rubio and deal Flynn. But at the same time, I’m having a hard time believing Flynn is the main issue here…that seems to me like posturing as well. An easy, obvious gripe to take up to hide a bigger issue. If Kahn deals Flynn and Rubio’s camp still balks about it, then what do we do?
Not to mention that Flynn is a lot more likely to stay here after his rookie contract is up.
Personally, I do think Flynn is a better fit and more of the kind of guy you want running the team.
Rubio has a LOT of growing up to do. Physically. Game wise. And most importantly culturally. Just don’t think he’d be a leader of a team for some time (just like it’d be hard for an American to lead a team full of Spaniards).
But that’s the beauty of our situation. Even if he comes over now, we can take it along slowly. Just don’t think he’s ready to play 35 minutes a game at pg in the NBA.
He didn’t even play that much this past season. Wasn’t he playing like 22 minutes a game? He and Flynn could really help each other. Both should recognize that fact.
Culturally Rubio has a big adjustment to make. But I don’t think he has a whole lot of maturing to do with his game. He has things he needs to improve on, but as far as being viable in the NBA, I think he can be an impact player right now just as much as Flynn can.
I think the only thing that would make a major impact on Rubio leading the team versus Flynn is the language barrier.
And I agree. I think Rubio and Flynn can pair together in the backcourt a lot more effectively than people expect. Two point guard sets are proven effective all the time, particularly in the playoffs.
At the least we should try and see what happens. If this blog is so willing to give Jefferson and Love a shot together, then writing off Rubio and Flynn is straight up hypocritical in my opinion.
Missed wow…WOW’s question from this afternoon: We’re not sending anyone to Vegas this year. We might hire a stringer to do a story or two but that’s not decided yet. If Rubio were playing, it’d probably be a different story.
Oh c’mon Jerry. Even with just Flynn and Ellington, that’s as good a draft haul as we’ve probably had since Garnett. If Rubio is AAA, then Flynn is AAa. Not sending someone is like treating him like he’s Will Avery or something.
You guys have no vision for the future (a Rubio/Flynn backcourt). Use your imaginations and believe.
It will work. You read it here first (after Kahn said it).
We never planned to go to Vegas, although I’m guessing the Rubio story might have changed our minds. It’s all about flash and appeal, like Rubio’s game, rather than any statement about Jonny Flynn. Even then, there’s still a decent change we might not have gone anyway.
it could work. But I don’t think it is or was the real plan. & I’m starting to believe this “Rubio camp wants Flynn gone” narrative. Jerry isn’t the only one singing this song ya know.
I can’t remember, did you go last year?
I still say this is pretty negligent of the Tribune. Flynn is an immensely popular player in his own right.
And I mean, c’mon. You guys sent someone to the NFL Rookie symposium to watch Percy Harvin go home sick. How flashy is that?
Actually I never saw anything about Rubio wanting Flynn gone until after Jerry speculated it in a previous blog post. That’s why I’m having a hard time believing it’s credibility…if it really is a huge issue, why didn’t it get brought up right away?
I mean, both guys had to be wondering WTH was going on on draft night. And yet it doesn’t get brought up in the national media until today? That seems suspicious…that’s why I think this “Rubio wants Flynn out” thing is just a convenient handle to cover up the real issue.
The Vikings are a different ballgame, my friends, and the NFL draft combine is where the football beat guys collect much of their stuff for their massive draft coverage.
And the world of newspapers is worse off this year than it was last year, and we might be saying the same this time next year.
It’s not a knock on Flynn or anybody, but it is summer league.
Also, just to brace you, I’m about to disappear a good bit from this blog because I have vacation and comp time off coming from working six and seven days from October to April that got delayed by the GM search, the McHale watch and then the draft. I’ll check in from time to time to start a new thread, but I won’t be working the beat daily. We’ll have other reporters assigned if something breaks and if I’m in town, I’ll come back for the big news, such as the coach’s hiring and a Rubio signing/trade if it comes.
I agree with your thoughts Bryan. And love what you’re saying Facial.
Without getting too “new agey”… I think MN fans could use a little more positive thinking. We all collectively are waiting for the worst too often. Why not hope for the best? It’s a lot more fun that way. Why not hope that Flynn and Rubio will become best friends, develop a Borg-like one mind (Star Trek reference), and it will all work out?
Before you mock me… I will cite Vikings fans as an example. When 50,000 fans are collectively waiting for their team to blow it, you just know it has to affect the players, and what do you know, they blow it.
As for the Rubio situation, we really know nothing concrete right now. I just don’t see how sitting here waiting for it to blow up is going to help anything. Me, I know this has potential to be the best Wolves draft ever. I’m hoping for the best.
Jerry, You’ve earned some time off. Enjoy it.
The Rubio situation is probably going to not be resolved for a while. Doubt we need to keep taking the pulse of the patient every 5 minutes.
I also think with the Detroit coaching situation, that should speed our coaching situation along. Don’t want to end up with sloppy seconds (though I doubt we are going for the same type of coach).
Please leave us your Rolodex while your on vacation! or give us Sid’s.
Sid’s? Why, you want to call John Kundla or Whitey Skoog?
I want to call all Sid’s people to find out if in fact Ricky will ever work in this town.
You know he won’t, genius.
Should have taken your vacation is March Jerry. You’d have been guaranteed to not miss anything worth reporting then.
Watch Kahn go ballistic on the first day of free agency while you’re gone.
I’ve started to resign myself to the fact that Rubio won’t play here. Which really is okay, since I’ve been telling everyone how much I wanted Flynn on the Wolves since April. (Granted, I was arguing for him as our 18th pick back then, but still. The point is, I won’t be AT ALL disappointed if he’s the one that stays.)
Assuming we eventually trade Rubio, what if we could get in on this Golden State-Phoenix deal? We send Rubio to Phoenix, Phoenix sends Amare to GS and Jason Richardson to us, and GS sends Biedrins to us and Ronny Turiaf to Phoenix? Something like that?
well thanks for answering my question Jerry, and appreciate your work and enjoy your time off w/ you family and friends. be safe!
it’s a beautiful start to the day here in Germany folks…no wind, sunny about 17*C
Don’t want Richardson. Too old. I’ll gladly take Biedrins though, and Kalenna Azubuike and Anthony Morrow while we’re at it.
Phoenix seems an unlikely destination for Rubio though.
jerry, has kahn left any hints to you about any changes to the front office? any more guys coming or going?
We’ve got Ricky Rubio! Why would we trade him before playing him? The agent has no leverage. Zero. None. Nada.
Rubio wants to play in the NBA and we own him for 5 years. We hold all the cards. We owe it to ourselves and our fans to see what he’s like. He may just like it here.
We should try to get Biedrins regardless. He’s another guy I’d be willing to trade Love for.
Certain sources are convinced the Amare trade is still alive and will go down in some form this summer, but it’s Golden State, so you never know. It’s hard to imagine them wanting Love instead of Amare, but we should try at least. Andris is turning into one hell of a player.
I’m guessing he’s pretty much going to replace the whole front office in due time. Maybe Babcock will remain because I think he has at least a year left on his contract. Maybe Fred sticks around, maybe not.
I’m not convinced that Golden State-Phoenix deal will ever come to be.
I’m going to hope and pray(literally) that Fred stays around. having got a chance to talk w/ him last year at the summer league, he seems to get it. If he leaves Minnesota he’ll be a real asset for the next team he goes to. I think he has potential to be a great front office guy in the league.
just got done checking my favorite spanish news site and i didn’t see any stories leading w/ Ricky Blond(Rubio) a bunch of stories about free agency though.
I heard is was done until we passed on Steph Curry. But I agree, it seems like a long long shot now. Most reports say Phoenix feels like they’ve been stabbed in the back, and rightly so, if they had indeed already reached an agreement.
But the mere fact Biedrins is on the block at all is a huge surprise to me. He was one of their only two untouchables last year and Don Nelson seemed hellbent on keeping the kid in Golden State for life. So he’s one option I definitely think Kahn should look at.
Kind of wish Kahn had made the Wizards include JaVale McGee in the Miller-Foye trade, but I guess that would have been a hard sell, leaving Washington with nothing but Brenda Haywood in the middle.
bryan, i’m not sure about that deal, beidrins in interesting, but I don’t think it would be a huge gain by having him on the roster. and I don’t see love being dealt. he has a lot of game and he showed it last year and even more so when Al went down. people want to talk that he got all his stats in garbage time against people back ups. he had his best numbers the last two months of the season while averaging over 30mins per against other teams starters. I think after the all star break he really got it…maybe he was burned by not being selected to the Rookies squad but I think more than that the game just started to slow down for him. He’ll be a very good to great player in the league for a long time.
I think Love will be dealt in the next two years. Kahn won’t want to pay him the money he’s worth when he overlaps Al Jefferson so much.
With Biedrins we’d get a guy who’s arguably an equally good rebounder, and while he’s probably not going to have Love’s scoring skills, he’s still a solid offensive threat, and is taller, better defensively and much more athletic.
Also, we need to get the nickname Jonny “Upstairs” to stick with Flynn. That’s a perfect nickname for him.
if I could choose, I’d rather deal Jefferson and keep Love. jefferson IMO is a one trick pony that won’t ever put forth the effort defensively and won’t become a superstar because he won’t ever be a guy that will make his teammates better. he’s not a good passer, doesn’t recognize where the doubleteams are coming from and doesn’t get to the free throw line enough.
there I said it…again…for the 20th time…
i’d like to see Flynn show off his vert in the dunk contest this year.
For me, a big factor in deciding between Jefferson and Love will be if Rubio plays or not. If he doesn’t, I’d rather have Jefferson because he’s proven he can score 20+ppg on his own and he fits better with FLynn in the halfcourt.
If Rubio does play though, I think Love is the guy who will benefit more because he’s more mobile and can move the ball better. Jefferson doesn’t move much without the ball…he just sits in the post waiting for an entry pass…and I kind of wonder if that’s going to be a problem with Rubio, because his abilities are really maximized with motion.
So if Rubio does play….you almost wonder if we should revisit the Amare trade possibility….
my lone factor is Al Jefferson’s poor basketball IQ and Love’s unbelievable IQ.
who knows, maybe i just perceive Al to have a poor basketball IQ…
I’m actually getting more excited to see Flynn play than Rubio, wow its late maybe I better sleep on that.
the reason to be more excited to see Flynn play is because you know when you’ll get to see him play. There is more anticipation regarding RR though. and I have a gut feeling that Kahn will have a resolution by the end of the coming weekend. for whatever reason, better or worse, I just feel there will be an ending to the drama soon
here’s a question as you all are beginning to wake up and get your coffee on, eat some breakfast.
what’s more important to David Kahn today; Free Agency, or Hiring a Head Coach?
Jerry …your last article should have been about Ricky Rubio speculation instead of Bobby Brown….anyway have a well deserved break
nba did this so i don’t have to…
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/06/30/schuhmann.top5list.freeagents/index.html
“Flynn’s” Twitter is fake, just like the Rubio Facebook page. Flynn was one of the most intelligent, personable and media-savvy guards in the draft, so much so that his personality and leadership skills played a large part in his moving up the draft board. In every interview since the draft, he’s said all the right things about playing alongside Rubio. You really think he’d be dumb enough to post that?
Plus, look at the Twitter page itself. It has 8 posts in two months. There is absolutely zero mention of the NBA draft or his being drafted until the Rubio comment. That doesn’t seem fishy?
On another note, Jerry, if you haven’t taken your much deserved vacation yet, why hasn’t there been more concrete reporting on Rubio’s buyout and its status? I don’t mean from you specifically, just the media in general. Seems as if the details change from story to story and no one really has any clue how close or far apart the two sides are or if progress is being made. Is it the economy? The language barrier? This is a pretty big part of the Rubio saga and I can’t really find a clear story on it.
wow,
I think you have to remember Big Al is still really, really young. Didn’t go to college to learn all those things. And really has only played a lot of minutes for 2 seasons (1/2 with Boston, 1 1/2 with us). And in his 1 1/2 with us he has had any great pgs to work with.
So I’d be a little more patient. That’s why a good coach is important.
Also thinks Love’s bball IQ is a little overrated. He’s still got a lot to learn too (not a knock, just looking forward to where he’s going to evolve to).
haha saudagg…
“In fact, off to the strib I go…”
Agreed: Flynn Twitter, 100% fake.
And the lack of ANYTHING that is not pure speculation on the Rubio story is odd.
really young, well, he’s 25, he’s been in the league 5 yrs and you’d think that if he was going to start showing signs of improvement in doing the things that an all-star does, we’d see it. He can score and he can rebound. i still don’t see him making teammates better.
Think this season is one where we will see the improvement (or not). He’s build a formidable offensive game, now it’s time to add the other pieces.
We’ve been a little spoiled with KG… there aren’t that many big men who naturally know how to pass and find the open man. That is what’s unique about Kevin Love. But Kevin Love with never have a post game that rivals Big Al’s, which is probably in the top 5 in the NBA. So to me, it’s worth the wait.
Hey even MJ didn’t exactly make his teammates better out of the gate when he was busy scoring 30 a game. He had to learn to do that.
I don’t think it’s terribly surprising that we haven’t learned anything concrete about the Rubio situation. None of the principals are saying anything. Bankrupt newspapers aren’t going to send their beat writers to Spain or to try and follow Kahn on his coaching tour to chase the story down.
We know the outlines of the story. Ultimately, I think Rubio wants to come to the NBA and he’ll be here. Fegan learned with the Yi situation two years ago that the NBA team ultimately has the leverage.
Sean -
I realize that and wasn’t expecting Jerry to get sent over there, but figured ESPN might make one of their lesser reporters run it down. If they can afford to have Favre-groupie Rachel Nichols camp out in Mississippi for weeks, I think they can afford a couple days in Spain to sort out the buyout.
rodman, jordan never had a problem passing the ball, he averaged over 5 ast per game for his career. Al Jeff is at 1.0 in 5yrs. the other point that I made is that he doesn’t get to the free throw line enought. last year he averaged 5.0 attempts per game and had 20fga per game. he went to the line 2.5x per game last year and he got the ball on 1/3 of all the wolves possessions?? he plays so close to the basket, is always being double teamed and yet he gets fouled twice a game? come on. bring a little more than…”this season is one where we will see improvement”
he has a great low post game, i would say it’s the best maybe next to Duncan…but all these other great 4/5’s in the league get to the foul line and can identify the doubles and pass the ball out to open guys or to cutters…
Thanks for the support Rodman. I do not at all see a Rubio/Flynn backcourt as comparable to a Telfair/Foye backcourt or a Foye/McCants backcourt, etcetera.
I also disagree with Jerry’s take that Rubio and Flynn’s games are the same. When I look at their games, I see Rubio as the orchestrator of the offense, driving and dishing. On the other hand, Flynn will slash and drive to score. Of course, sometimes Rubio will score and sometimes Flynn will dish, but you get the point.
Why can’t people (including Jerry) see this?
and Rodman, don’t you ever compare the greatest player in NBA history…MJ’s all around game, even when he was in his first 5yrs to Jefferson’s…you’ll make my point even easier to make… there is no comparison. MJ was always able to get to the line, always found open players, always played defense and never missed games because of injury
Maybe because you are just flat out wrong Facial.
I was saying Jordon didn’t make his teammates better until he realized he needed to score less and defer to them more.
Jordon also had a lot better teammates and not the scrubs we have. Who are the cutters we’ve had? Who are the shooters waiting to knock down the open jumpers?
Sure he should get to the line more. And pass more. And play better d. No argument here.
But you’re telling me to “bring it” yet you are saying you’d keep Love over Jefferson and mentioning Love’s “unbelievable IQ”? Please.
Just a point of information: on a minutes-adjusted basis, Love and Jefferson produced the same assists per game last year. Love is an adequate passer, but he’s not some sort of KG-like creator.
We’d be far better off with Rubio/Jefferson than Rubio/Love. A creative point guard like Rubio is only going to help Jefferson play better and get better quality opportubnities at the offensive end.
Just catching up on some of the posts from last night and I gotta say, Bryan, cool out.
You’re calling Al-Love fans “straight up hypocritical” and The Strib “negligent” for not covering a bunch of no-names in Vegas.
Cool out, my brother.
Rodman - regarding any potential for Detroit’s coaching “sloppy seconds”, ESPN reported yesterday Dumars’ top two candidates are Doug Collins and Avery Johnson. I was surprised that Jeff Van Gundy wasn’t also on that list because ESPN stated that Dumars wanted an experienced coach.
I still want Mark Jackson with an experienced bench behind him.
lol…rodman…really…I don’t even want to entertain this anymore. I’ve made my points on jefferson. i have his stats pretty much burned into my head to back up my reasonings, i’ve seen him play. and I don’t like him, you can’t convince me to buy into everyone else saying he’s a star because he’s not. and he may become one. but i don’t think he will be.
Kevin Love has a better basketball IQ and I’ll justify it by saying that he has the ability as a smaller 4 to score, position himself for rebounds, is a great offensive rebounder, gets to the foul line. and there’s a good chance that when the ball goes into the post that he can find someone if he doesn’t have a shot, reaching 4ast in a game a hand full of times. he gets steals, hustles and still gets the occasional block.
Yes, I’d rather have Kevin Love on my team because the guy is coachable
It wouldn’t be the first time klilgore trout. If Jerry has his way we’ll never know will we?
Is anyone else still with me or have the rest of you thrown in the towel on the Rubio/Flynn backcourt? Maybe we shouldn’t even try to put a group of dynamic players on the court together.
you guys tell me this on the Rubio/Jefferson Rubio/Love breakdown…how is pairing Rubio w/ Jefferson a greater scenario, you have those two on the floor, Rubio’s creativity is going to be used to dribble to one side of the floor pass the ball to a posting Jefferson and let Jefferson go to work. wow, that is so creative…LOL…you guys crack me up
okay…now I’m just being cynical…I need to get away from the blog for a little while.
wow…
You’re right. Love was our best player in all those games we lost this year. It’s great quoting stats in losing efforts. Really reflects how good someone is.
take your best shot rodman, i’ve forgotten more basketball then you’ll ever know. but keep trying.
Who the heck does crap like that? The first “kilgore trout” post was mine, but the last one was not.
I’m actually willing to give Rubio/Flynn a shot, but only because Flynn can get to the rim and he’s a great athlete. I’m apprehensive about his height.
Thanks for the info Foo. Sounds like Detroit is heading in a different direction than us.
I like Mark Jackson too.
wow… WOW - Yeah, kind of hard to compare a SG’s assists numbers to a center’s assists numbers. How many NBA centers have ever averaged over 5.0 assists per game over their career. Further, how many “power” style centers over averaged half of that?
Finally, comparing Michael Jordan’s career numbers to Al Jefferson’s neophyte numbers seems a bit far-fetched, wouldn’t you say?
If you want to make an unfair comparison between Al and a future HOF big who passed the ball, compare him to Tim Duncan… but even that’s unfair IMO because Duncan and Al play completely different games.
wow,
Don’t be sensitive. Just a difference of opinion.
Go have a brat and enjoy the day.
foo, that is exactly what i was saying. Rodman. I’m going to do that. but I do think that I need to spend some time away from the blog. you all be good.
Go Wolves!!
Foo,
I brought up MJ. All I was saying was MJ needed to learn how to make his teammates better just like Al does.
Making your teammates better is one of the subtle qualities that stats don’t necessarily capture… especially with all the players out there who just go for stats so they get big contracts. Marbury is a 20 and 8 guys and never made his teammates better.
Personally I think Al could get there. He’s young and can turn the corner yet.
Since there isn’t much else we can say about the Rubio situation because apparently no one is able to find any reliable information I’d like to float the idea of working with the blazers on a deal for Johnny Flynn and Rudy Fernandez.
Fernandez put up decent numbers being the 3rd or 4th option on the court… and he’s never going to be given a real opportunity to be a stud. He’s a great shot with a good size who’s fairly athletic. Plus, we’ll be the favorite backcourt for ladies everywhere.
I know it’s not a great trade but there’s got to be more to talk about then just what we don’t know about RR.
Big guys take some time to develop. Getting doubled like Al does shows that other teams don’t feel he can be guarded head up. that’s huge in NBA. Only a handful of players get doubled. That is why Rubio is a bad fit with Al. He can’t shoot. That is why he fell to 5 not his agent.
Logical Thinker –
He didn’t fall to 5 because he couldn’t shoot. He fell to 5 because he didn’t go 2 because he didn’t want to play in memphis. He didn’t go 3 because apparently Russel Westbrook threatened to ask for a trade if OKC drafted him. He fell past 4 because the guys in SAC are in the last years of their contract and they need to win right now. Evans is a more polished scorer who they think can bully other PG’s. SAC didn’t want to wait a year or two for Rubio to develop.
No he fell to 5 because his defense is a question and he can’t shoot. Don’t make it more than what it is.He has a big upside as an flashy passer just not as a shooter. He is also frail but will get stronger with age. Flynn in an honest competition would beat him out cause he’s way more gritty. Lots of sizzle with Ricky how much steak is the question????
Why people keep saying that Rubio’s defense “is a question”?
Where are you hearing that his defense is suspect? Everyone keeps saying this but they’re not really backing it up with any facts. Is there a stat that says players he guards score above their averages?
He’s lead the league in steals two years and won defensive POY. I’ll give you that Flynn might be a little more ready from a muscle standpoint but then again his ceiling isn’t near as high.
Oh and in regards to Rubio’s shooting. He shot nearly 40% from 3pt. range.
I don’t thhink the Rubio/Flynn backcourt is a workable option, but it doesn’t bother me at all. It certainly does not need to be addressed until Rubio signs, and not even this year if they are both on the roster. Neither has played a minute in the league, and we can afford to see what we’ve got. Or, we can take advantage of the fact that neither has played a minute and trade either based on their hype. None of the rookies are going to look as good in the first few months of the season as they looked on draft night. Very few of these guys even dominated in college.
There’s nothing bad that’s going to happen with this situation. The wolves can start the season with both PGs without being married to this as the backcourt of the future. We don’t even know if they will each deserve enough minutes to warrant being on the floor at the same time for significant stretches. The only loss here would be if either was dealt for below value, and I don’t see that happening.
If Rubio stays in Europe there is no long term loss and only the short term inconvenience of having given upo two guys who could play starter minutes without getting anyone back to fill that court time.
And where’s the notion that Rubio isn’t “gritty”? His leadership and his mental toughness are widely cited as strengths to his game. No kid his age would be as successful as he has been — as a point guard — so early without some serious moxie. He’s not some athletic freak of nature that is relying solely on size or speed.
We also don’t need ot resolve the Love/Jefferson pairing right away. This is the wrong time to deal either with respect to getting equal value in return. It will be important to see how Jefferson recovers from his surgery. I also thought it would be a good test season to see how he adapts to playing with other scoring options, but we didn’t really add any, aside from Ellington who may or may not give us much. It will be equally important to see how Love develops in year two. Decisions can come later, unless there is some can’t miss trade opportunities that are presented in the interim.
I’m still a believer, I want to see at least one year of Rubio/Flynn back court. Why not? I think it would be great for the media. We suck anyways, what is it going to hurt? If it blows up it blows up but if it works it could be something REALLY special.
To me the bottom line when it comes to Al and Love, I hate to say that I agree but I do with Mac. They are just kids still, this year Al has to step up and Love will be better. It takes time, I have to have faith that the crazy 2pg 2 pf system will work. Why?? We are the laughing stock of the NBA and I want to prove everyone wrong!!!
I agree 5&10. Now the time to establish a positive culture, hard work ethic, and team first attitude.
Then we’ll see how the players grow and evolve. To me, both Rubio and Flynn have a chance to be superstars. Why trade one before we find out if they are legit superstars? We’re not trying to win now. We’re trying to rebuild the whole organization. It’s going to take a little time.
Remember that Flynn was the guy whose defense was “suspect” coming into the draft. Granted, this was based mostly on an absence of data due to the zone scheme at Syracuse, but the questions about Flynn were “is he too small?” and “can he defend?”
The part that frightens me a bit is that he moved way up the draft board based on 1. his big measured vertical, and 2. his personality. So, there is potential not to be a “bust” but maybe to be a reach, given that it was not his season-long productivity that made him a top pick.
It’s not clear to me why people act like it’s a given that Flynn is more NBA-ready than Rubio. I think a certain mythology has risen up around the kid recently based on the force of personality.
totally agree fiveanddime.
Flynn’s personality has been a huge factor in his rise. The first couple mock drafts had him in the mid-teens. Not saying he’s a bust but his full potential is a considerably lower than Rubio’s.
Wow - you were the one nit-picking about Al Jefferson not having the assists numbers of Michael Jordan, yes?
5&10 — completely agree on Flynn. As a player, I think taking him at #6 was a bit of a reach.
But I think it’s good that he has a winning personality. That’s one of the things I really like about the notion of a Rubio/Flynn combination is that you’ve got a couple of guys who are big personalities and leaders. This team desperately needs those type of players.
I’m not trying to pick on Jerry, but I want to make a statement about his statement saying that, “apparently Kahn is the only GM in the league that thinks a Rubio/Flynn backcourt could work.”
What do you expect them to say? They want to try to drive down any leverage the Wolves have so they can swoop in like vultures.
Facial –
People freaking about taking two PG’s bothers me for one main reason. Guys like Chad Ford and Simmons complain all the time about how the NBA doesn’t think out of the box whether it’s with coaching choices, or schemes they lament that the NBA relies too much on things that haven’t worked before or retreads for coaches and GM.
Kahn does something out of the box and they all jump up and down about how it won’t work. I’m not saying it will work, there’s a good chance that it won’t but I gotta believe that the negative reactions from the press have led Flynn and Rubio both saying “Hey, this will never work”.
Every year a late draft pick turns out to be a very good pro, sometimes a star.
I’m not sure of the long-term prognosis on Wayne Ellington; and I’m not over-hyping him like some folks have suggested.
But I’m just going on the record to say that he’ll be on the 2nd-Team All-Rookie team this year year.
There was such parity in draft picks this year after the first few picks, so it’s going to be an easier year in general for a late 1st-rounder to make a bigger than expected impact. Add to that, Ellington is going to have a tremendous opportunity for playing-time and he’s got a great variety of high-level shooting skills - spot-up, off-the-dribble, creating his own shot, 42% from 3-point range last year.
I just think the combination of his ability, his opportunity and the parity in the draft this year will give him a great opportunity.
As I’ve said, I believe his ceiling is equal to Randy Foye’s ceiling, though they are different types of 2-guards. So I’m not getting carried away, here… I just think Ellington is going to be a very good rookie year.
Personally, I feel like sometimes we get too caught up in potential rather than guys who can play (boy I sound like John Madden). There’s always going to be Gerald Green types who have a ton of athleticism but haven’t proven much. DeRozan and Holiday are two that strike me like that this year (not that they won’t be good).
I remember watching Flynn playing and just thinking he was a stud… a total warrior. To me, it’s obvious he will be successful. Had the same feeling about Eric Gorden. Maybe his measurements (height) isn’t great, but he can play. And he’s a winner who doesn’t shy away from the spotlight at the end of games.
That’s why I’m thrilled we got him. Personally I think he can be better than all those drafted before him. Only time will tell.
Apparently Rubio has that same star quality. I haven’t seen it (literally, I haven’t seen him play), but those who have say he’s got that same warrior quality.
I agree Foo. Think Ellington is really in a great situation to succeed. People are going to be leaving him all alone on the wing. He’s such a great pure shooter (when’s the last guard we had like that?) that I think he’s going to be draining a lot of open j’s.
new thread…
Why a bobcats player are in our roster ?
It´s seems like a Mchale thing.
And I like the Brown option.He will be a 3 or 4(if Rubio comes to Sota)PG next season.
