Flynn, Ellington sign in time for Vegas Summer League
Posted on July 10th, 2009 – 2:11 PMBy Jerry Zgoda
First-round picks Jonny Flynn and Wayne Ellington have signed their rookie contracts, just as they arrive in Las Vegas today to begin practicing for summer-league play that begins Sunday.
Flynn is slotted to earn at least $2.47 million next season, Ellington at least $836,300.
Haven’t heard yet if either player got an extra 20 percent teams are allowed to give players.
Usually, players do get that 120 percent figure, as Kevin Love received last year when the Wolves paid him $3.3 million instead of $2.7 million plus.
Timberwolves.com will carry audio broadcasts of the final five summer-league games, every one but Sunday’s opener against Houston.
If you just can’t live without your summer-league fix, you can buy a broadband pass for all 55 Vegas games for $14.99 at nba.com/summerleague2009.
NBA TV isn’t showing any games this summer, just highlights. They figure if you really want to see summer league for goodness sakes, you’ll pay the 15 bucks.
UPDATE: Wolves reserve Mark Madsen sent an open note to Ricky Rubio, via his blog and also shared some thoughts on new Wolves’ basketball boss David Kahn. Included in his observations: Talking to Kahn reminded him of “talking to Mitch Kupchak, back from the Laker days in that he was direct, to the point and very professional.” You need to be a Spanish speaker, though, to appreciate the “open letter” to the Wolves’ draft pick.
UPDATE II: According to the Houston Chronicle, Kahn will interview Rockets assistant Elston Turner “in the next couple days,” Turner said.
271 Responses to "Flynn, Ellington sign in time for Vegas Summer League"
For Rubio, can we give the 20% bonus and the 500,000 to help with the buyout? Lets get him here!
Drewski- Yes Rubio could get the 20% which he could use toward his buyout if he wanted to.
Tell the rookies the economy is in the tank and the salary cap is dropping dramatically in the near future. 5% maybe but no 20%. Especially since Flynn would have fallen a couple of spots had the Wolves not selected him.
Looks like Bryan will have to pick up an extra shift at McDonalds to pay for that broadband pass.
jama just shutup already, that last post of yours is the definition of stupidity.
Arenal
So you would blindly give them the 20% bump up in pay? Why?
jama let’s see, not pissing them off is the big reason. So you give previous draft picks the bonus now you cut them off to these picks? Having pissed off players is not going to benefit this team in the long run. These guys have long memories, and then you and the Bryan types would ask “well why doesn’t he want to sign here?”. Hmm I wonder, short changing them now is just dumb.
It kind of depends on what Evans and Curry signed for. If they both got the 20% increase than the players have a good argument.
Arenal - You realize the guy running the show now is not the guy who gave the full 20% to previous picks yeah ?
To be honest I don’t see why Kahn gives anyone outside of Rubio (for buyout purposes) the 20% automatically. What are they gonna do ? Refuse to sign, try the lottery again next year and get picked 10+ spots below where they were this year ? Thats an even worse financial decision by the rooks.
If they are going to keep lowering the salary cap, they should lower the max contract or something, its good for the Wolves because it levels the playing field for now
Swam try thinking with you head and not your ass. Minnesota aint Miami, New York, Boston or LA. Anything to help these guys stay long term if they turn into decent players is a good thing. 20% more on these contract aint nothing when the Wolves are going to be below the cap for the foreseeable future. Or are you one of those tools who pretend that D-Wade or Bosh are going to sign here? Buy a clue next time so I dont have to educate you.
I’m sure glad Arenal isn’t the new GM. Giving the current players whatever they want to stay sure seems like a good business model to me.
Finally, we will have some game situations to talk about. I can’t wait.
jama= one of those tools who think D-Wade will sign here.
I don’t expect Wade, LeBron, Bosh, or even Joe Johnson to sign here. What does giving Flynn an extra 20% for no reason have to do with those free agents? If Flynn plays well and is a part of the future the Wolves will recognize that by giving him the contract he deserves for his second contract. Why is that hard to understand?
Arenal you need to relax. Making people happy, especially T-Wolves players and fans will come with W’s. Sure the 20% bonus will make the individual happy, but W’s will make everyone happy (including attracting free agents). Times are tough for the Wolves so maybe the 20% bonus just isn’t possible. Get W’s and bonuses will follow as seats are sold out. Lets give them some incentitive to play as a team as we all know we don’t have a true dominant player to carry us, so teamwork will be the only way in the near term the Wolves can be competitive.
Alright, sold out seats may have been a bit of an overstatement.
Arenal
Wouldn’t not giving Flynn a 20% bonus actually increase the chance the Wolves sign an expensive FA? With the money the Wolves save they have more money to give to FA’s. Just a thought, I know you have trouble comprehending anyone else’s opinion.
Arenal, just about every one of your posts included an insult of someone else. Stop blabbing and listen to what you sound like - a jerk.
Arenal - Hahahaha, that post was ridiculous.
1) “Swam try thinking with you head and not your ass. Minnesota aint Miami, New York, Boston or LA. Anything to help these guys stay long term if they turn into decent players is a good thing.”
Swan’s Brain says that when they become restricted free agents the Wolves will be able to offer more money than any other team and can match any other offer they want.
When it comes to their next contracts I don’t think Flynn is gonna be sweating the extra 400K he could get…or Ellington the extra 150K.
Why do you consistently make suggestions or theories that deal from a position of weakness ? Just because we can offer extra, doesn’t mean we have to, ought to, or should.
Its gotta be a case by case basis anything else is completely dumb. You’re thinking the Wolves are the slightly chubby girl who thinks she has to put out on first dates for fear of no seconds.
Its poor poor thinking.
I’m not saying “don’t give em the 20%”…I’m saying don’t necesaarily do it….mostly because I’d rather you be the chubby girl who puts out (garbage posts) all the time for fear no one will read them again. Leave the Wolves to make good decisions, not desperate ones.
Some guy fresh out of “college” who hasn’t played a lick of pro ball gets 20% raise because?????? That should come after the season if you proved you have done anything. Odds are, most 28th picks aren’t in the league in 5 years, but we should just automatically give them a raise on top of the $836,300 raise they just got? No thank you.
Who’s going to coach the Wolves summer league team?
Arenal, stop talking.
Almost every first rounder gets the 120% of scale. It’s the way the business works. I’m sure Flynn did. Ellington almost certainly did, too. It’s standard business practice in the NBA.
Of course Rubio will get it too when he signs. What’s actually interesting about the CBA, is that it permits a pay schedule “more beneficial to the player” than the announced schedule. In other words, they could actually pay Rubio (or anyone else) in a lump sum at the start of the season (or upon signing, the language isn’t completely clear on that issue).
I don’t know that that’s ever been done before, but my reading of the relevant part of the CBA suggests that it’s within the rules. I wonder whether that would help Rubio.
Ok jama you can tell that to their agents you idiot. You explain why they gave Love a 20% bonus and not Flynn, Rubio or Ellington and see what reaction you get. You will be joining Bryan at McDonalds with your “business plan”.
And how is denying Flynn 20% going to help bring in a superstar when you’re going to give the superstar a max contract anyway? Hmm this team had 1 superstar that they developed, how many other superstars wanted to come here. The only chance this team has is giving current players some incentive to stay. The NBA business model isn’t McDonalds although you and other idiots like Saintyopa, Swan Dizzle, Bryan and others treat like it is.
Saintyopa, I am guessing you are on the janitor duty since that is all you can handle you fool.
Arenal - So there are zero other incentives aside from this 20% to get players to stay ?
So, the fact that we’d be able to offer more than anyone else to retain said players in the future is not an incentive ? Really ?
Good thinkin there, sport.
On a completely unrelated note, the Wolves called to chat about the recent moves / try to get me to re-up on a ticket package and added this “Arenal - Gotta Give em the 20%…MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST GIVE IT TO THEM” incentive: Floor seats to the Lynx.
I just don’t understand all the excitement over Rubio. I hope it turns out well and the sooner he plays the sooner we will find out, but it seems I am in the minority here. He is young and maybe that does translate into upside but he isn’t that much younger than any other rookie. I just hope he doesn’t spend another year in Europe producing some highlights but only average stats like last year as his stock will only fall.
Arsenal - are you secretly trapped in Kevin McHale’s body or are you actually Kevin McHale? You think a lot like him!
Hey, has anybody seen this? I must have missed the coverage of this during the hire.
http://archive.fwweekly.com/content.asp?article=6931
Makes me question the integrity of Kahn. This article makes him look like a snake.
“So there are zero other incentives aside from this 20% to get players to stay ?”
Show me where I said this you loser? Swan like I said you think with your ass. And stick with the Lynx and the WNBA, that is all your tiny brain can handle. And Jim you are an idiot. Last time I checked, Glen Taylor was handing over the money, not McHale or Kahn, so buy a clue or head back to the Twins blog and whine about why you think Delmon YOung will be a superstar you tool.
As interesting as it is to read these arguments, how about a little substance in these posts. Like, it’s too late to talk about what we should do with Ellington and Flynn as they have already signed their contracts. I’m not familiar with NBA contracts, but I think that a great idea would be to add that 20% in for all players and that 20% would be based upon personal/team performance. Having an incentive based portion of the salary is a tool that is not used enough. However, the incentives would have to involve both team AND personal acomplishments, otherwise I’m guessing you would end up with a team of guys who all want the ball and don’t play team basketball.
Also, it is my belief that we need to move beyond the McHale error….er, I mean era… 
and discuss/speculate about what the team is currently doing and what they will do in the short-term future. Like…. Lets find a way to trade for Rudy if that would make it a more comfortable situation for Rubio. I’m not sure we have the bait to dangle in front of Portland to get it done, but if we can get Rubio here and he grows a a couple inches, adds about 20-30 pounds over the next couple years, this would be our line up.
Flynn/Telfair
Rubio/Ellington/Carney
Brewer/Carney
Jefferson/Love
FA and/or Draft Pick/Jefferson
While there is room for upgrades at the SF position, I really do think that would give us a solid line up for several years.. 2010 draft/free agency will hopefully allow us to find a solid center so that Big Al doesn’t have to continue to play out of position.
Have a great weekend All!!
“The only chance this team has is giving current players some incentive to stay.” ~~~~Arenal
So some equates to ZERO for you? Damn you are just plain old D U M B !!!!!
I didn’t see that either. What’s that all about? It looks like the guy has left a trail of unpaid bills wherever he’s been. How did he pass the interview process.???
I posted a comment above that is “awaiting moderation” while people are calling others idiots all over the place up above. What’s up with that? Is there some automatic filter that caught me or something? I didn’t swear or say anything objectionable that I can see.
WayneG be careful posting that link. The tools here worship Kahn and destroy McHale at any cost. Even though there is evidence G.Taylor had his hand in many of the personnel moves. Read the latest cnnsi story by aschburner, says that Taylor nixed Rajan Rondo in teh KG deal because he wanted a 1st round pick.
If it’s standard practice, the Wolves probably don’t want to think too far outside the box on this one. Being the only team to NOT give the 20% would definitely make the rounds among players and agents (and other GMs). The issue isn’t that they CAN make the rookies take less; the issue is how such a move would be perceived when this team is already trying hard to not be a negative outlier anymore.
Arenal–Bad arguments don’t stand out to me on boards like this as much as posts like yours, over and over with the casual, reflexive disrespect. Your ideas are good enough to do the talking…so let them. If you find that people aren’t giving your thoughts proper respect, the feedback you get might be a clue.
Kilrathi
That’s happened to me before, too…what’s up with that?
Arenal - You fail to realize that the 20% “incentive” doesn’t really matter, butt brain. You also fail to mention any other possible incentive for players to stay i.e. being able to offer more when their next contract comes along etc.
Swan, was the topic on other incentives to stay? Last time I checked the question posted to me was about the 20% by jama you asshat.
It’s weird. Even tried posting it in parts and they got caught, and I basically just said what Pipeline did, which is that 120% is the going rate and standard practice, so you pay it. Paying less makes you look bad. It’s not a bonus, just going over the contractual minimum.
I saw the story by Asch yesterday. I read about Rondo, too, and thought that seemed strange. Why would Taylor want Telfair and a pick instead of Rondo????? I wonder how many times Glen stepped in and made a mess of this organization.
Swan, here is a suggestion. Stay in your box and go cry to your mommy when she gets home. And if you think that the 20% doesnt matter you pretty much admitted that you should stick to the WNBA. Fool.
Arenal, like other people say, you’ve got good ideas. Try expressing them like an adult — you come across like some petulant 12 year old. Either you are, or you’re an adult who comes across terribly, and neither one is real impressive. Stick with your ideas, rather than name-calling, and people would probably listen to you more.
WayneG, exactly what I was thinking. And from what I heard about the Love/Mayo trade, it was the Memphis owner calling Taylor to get that trade in gear.
It’s well-known that Glen overpaid KG in that big contract although McHale was opposed. That affected them for years, including losing Marbury. Old news, I know, but worth mentioning. I bet Glen has been too involved more often than we even know.
What we should do is give them a 30% bonus so FAs think we got big pockets…ya right.
The Summer Team? Don’t we need a coach for the actual season? Find one already!
Arenal. I will admit I know nothing about basketball and don’t even follow the Wolves that closely. Who made you god who knows everything anyways? People don’t come on these things to hear the kind of crap that you say. They want to share their opinions. I just saw you on here being a big D*** and had to comment to get a rise out of you. Thanks!
“I will admit I know nothing about basketball and don’t even follow the Wolves that closely.”
I dont think I need to say anything else Jim, you admitted everything.
Bewtween everyone “yelling” at each other on here, what about WanyeG’s link?
That deserves some SERIOUS discussion! I knew something was up w/ him…
You’re all missing the point here. Madsen is using his #1 skill, speaking Spanish, to try and lure in Rubio. That in itself ensures us that we need to #1 keep Madsen and #2 that Rubio is coming. (sense the sarcasm)
Arenal - For some reason you believe that giving the 20% kicker is absolutely necessary. You are sold on the fact that the Wolves will lose loyalty if they don’t hand out money, but have failed to give an intelligent explanation or back-up for that claim. You also rely on the fact that it was paid for Love so it should be paid for Flynn. The reality of the situation (not sure if you’ve opened a newspaper lately) is that the economy has changed since Love was signed. Also, no information has been given about whether or not other lottery picks have gotten the 20% kicker. So before you go around calling everyone a “stupid” and “dumb”, bring some intelligence to the table. Your ignorance makes you sound like the biggest bum on this comment board.
Proceed with your rebuttal that calls me names but continues to apply no logic to the discussion at hand.
Err, go look at the big contracts and sign and trades going on and tell me the NBA has no money. Or should I call you Bryan you mental midget?
#18- I’m with you. It looks like Kahn got himself into some hot water in a few different cities.
“Last June, Kahn told the Fort Worth City Council the team was leaving because of poor attendance and a lack of support from the Fort Worth business community. Kahn requested the city waive half of the $25,000 in lease payments owed for the 2006-07 season and all of the $144,000 for 2007-08. The council compromised: the $144,000 would be wiped off the books if Kahn paid the full $25,000 over the next three months.
In June 2007, the city received $7,317 from Southwest Basketball — but that was it.”
And that’s just one excerpt!!
My prediction- Taylor + Kahn= disaster. Maybe GT likes that shady side of Kahn. Maybe that’s what it takes to be a billionaire.
You gotta love Madsen. He seems like a great guy. Hope he can talk some sense into Rubio.
-WayneG
Garnett signed that huge contract before the salary cap was instituted. Had the lockout never happened, it wouldn’t have been an issue. We could have spent whatever we wanted on any player without consequence.
Previous thread: someone mentioned if hindsight we should’ve taken Lopez over Love or traded Mayo for Lopez + whatever.
My take: i don’t think you can say either way at this point with next years draft coming up, it being loaded with big men and us having several picks again–likely our own, which will be another lottery pick-which is perfect b/c after that we should start making large strides and thus give teh clips a mid-1st rounder, not a lottery 1st rounder.
Thus if we get a big in next years draft who is good/decent then i’ll still say Love/Mayo was a good deal, esp if love keeps improving thus making either him or AJ expendable, or if they figure out how to jive together.
This situation could be perfect for the wolves, provided they get their same loto luck and don’t drop. We’ll have nice young studs at each spot, except 2 guard, and then just need time to develop and gel.
Considering how this draft turned out, it’s hard to say I would have taken anyone besides Love. None of the point guards…Rose, Westbrook, Augustine, etc…interest me as much as Rubio, and I think he’ll be better than all of them in the end.
Like arenal said, Love gives us a major trade asset. Either him or Jefferson. The team doesn’t look anything like what I think a championship team should (or even appears to be headed in that direction) but a couple good trades can quickly change that, and we have the assets now.
Most first-round picks get the 20% added on their deal. There’s no reason for the Wolves not to do it, and I can’t believe that people are actually debating it.
Arenal - the league salary cap is down for the 09-10 season and in your opinion the Wolves should pay a premium. Not sure of the logic, but then again I dont expect much from an idiot. Also, just because you have $ does mean you should spend it. The Wolves should pay what the market bears. If everyone is paying the 20% kicker, they should stay in line with the market.
Sean - What else am I suppose to do ? Work ?!?!!?
WayneG, great link. I’ve heard lots of stories about Taylor and some of the sketchy ways he’s built his empire. Of course most billionares step on a few toes along the way.
Letting his son-in-law run a professional franchise is grounds for a mess. That’s how we all ended up w/ Kahn and the mini-mess he’s created, not to mention the shady trail of lawsuits…
#18 - I’m as surprised as you, that people are getting tuned up about rookie contracts, and not looking at the bigger issues here.
By the way, all this talk of trading Jefferson or Love is nuts. Just my 2 cents.
Bryan-
Not sure what you mean by the contract. My point was that Glen got the team in deep crap salary-wise and couldn’t afford other players. Marbury was mad when the rules changed and couldn’t make the $$$ here. Do you think GT would have spent the big bucks to keep Marbury too? GT has never been one to spend a lot of $$$$.
I was under the impression that Kahn was a GM before? It looks like he was busy fighting lawsuits and moving teams around to avoid paying bills.
Thinking of next years lottery, Cole A would look very good in a wolves uniform!
New Initials-
Glen’s son-in-law is a mystery. I think he’s been with this franchise for years, but has very little input. I read that he was associated with the search- also heard that from one of Glen’s partners. Maybe it wasn’t done very thoroughly once all the other candidates dropped out. Either that or Kahn has a good explanation that we don’t know about.
-WayneG
That’s the point. The team got in deep with the salary cap because the cap came AFTER KG’s contract. We had no idea there would be a limit to our spending when he signed.
It’d be like if MLB suddenly put in a salary cap this year. What would the Yankees do? They didn’t know there would be a cap when they singed all those players. Same with us and KG.
Taylor has his faults, but blaming him for KG’s contract and the cap isn’t fair. No one could have predicted Stern would institute a salary cap.
why has there been no news on the wolves next coach???? does no one want to come here???
Stackhouse has been waived… How much would we have to shell out to rent him for the year?
Nothing. Stack is completely washed up.
The salary cap was in existence before KG’s contract. The difference was that there was never a maximum salary before KG’s contract.
Or a luxury tax. That’s the point I was trying to make.
FWIW, I don’t trust any of that retrospective stuff that comes out about “McHale wanted this, but Taylor wanted that, and then KG did this…” There are too many interested parties out there with their own agenda. And that was before Rondo had his breakout playoffs last year. He still can’t shoot, and perhaps even Will Avery would look competent passing to Allen/Pierce/KG. (I’m joking about that, I’m just saying at the time it wasn’t as clear-cut that Rondo would be an obvious improvement over the #1.)
Err show me where these draft picks are not getting the 20% kicker because of the economy. Otherwise just go troll somewhere else fool.
The problem with not taking Rondo wasn’t that Telfair was a safer pick or that McHale like Bassy more. It was the McHale was convinced that Foye was going to be a star point guard. That’s where the error in judgment was.
ehem, Bryan, reading Mac’s mind LOL LOL. And, of course, your normal dose of rear-view mirror forecasting.
Elston Turner..let’s see (1) retreads, (2) has-beens, and (3) wannabes. Elston must be in the third category.
I’ll go on record predicting that Flynn will average over 0.5 dunks/game over bigs after drives down the lane during summer league.
David Thorpe on Curry tonight from Vegas:
david b. thorpe Curry finished 4-14 for 16 pts. I suggested he was mike bibby without the baggage when I first saw him. That’s how he played today.
I’m not sure that 4-14 for a shooter is a great debut. Small sample size and all, but still.
4-14 is not very impressive for a sharp shooter–I agree.
What baggage did Bibby have? I can’t seem to remember. . .
Bryan
That’s not what Asch reported. Do you have info on the Bassy/Rondo trade that we don’t have? What Asch said is that Glen wanted Bassy, McHale wanted Rondo. Did you climb into McHale’s head or are you basing his convictions on something more concrete?
Maybe Curry had the jitters- first game and all.
Skip to content * About Letter to Blond Ricky Thursday, July 9, 2009 Ricky, Greetings from Minneapolis Minnesota. I am called Mark Madsen and I have been six years playing for the Timberwolves. Perhaps I have left perhaps a year or two years but like professional player since I have 33 years of age already. But I can say a thing to you: when David Kahn selected to you in fifth position in draft, there was very many people here who put themselves animated by the possibility of your arrival to Minnesota very. Your future companions of this equipment also we are animated so that jueges here. During the past few years I have served like representative as my equipment the union as the players (NBPA). So I understand some very well of the pertinent considerations and the contract clauses. I would simply like to communicate some points that I hope that she helps you to decide to come this year to Minnesota to play. First: You can arrive here and immediately to have a great impact in transforming this equips of a less effective equipment to a special equipment. Personally, many years ago and when I was in the institute, I played against Jason Kidd. Throughout carerra of Kidd, he has gained much through his disinterested style and the way in which he passes the ball much to cause that their companions get to be better. I know that you are the played type of that you want to win and you want to help your companions to that they are the successful. As you already know, that characteristic is little common in the NBA, but you have your it than I have seen of you. Vente to Minnesota. Secondly: The fans of Minnesota want that you come! This equipment is not the Equipment of Minneapolis nor of St. Paul. This equipment is of the whole state of Minnesota. I played much here during year 2004 in playoffs when we were on the verge of gaining it everything. It is possible that if Sam Cassell had not had its injury that there would be gando everything. During that then, the stage was full. Agricultures and cattle dealers came from far like the heads of very great businesses of the city. You can be part of the search of the championship and can cause that atmosphere of illusion and spectacle returns. Third party: Economically I know that you must much consider, and try not even I include/understand the complexities of your present contract and the others. But I know that when playing against our national equipment recently time, and when having as much success, was much people been unidense who remained impressed with your talents and your competitive spirit very. I understand that what interests to you is to win, but with respect to contracts, really the first contract of the NBA is completely fixed but once players fulfill first his, then they can negotiate two or three contract multiannual ones. In my opinion if a very young player as your carerra can fulfill its first early contract in his, is more favorable because they are left you more years to play a very high level. If you can “go to the well” three times instead of two during to carerra, already you see, is better. Quarter: A month ago, it specifically left a article in Wall Street Journal describing aspects the sport world and the competition of Spaniards in the sport world. In order to clarify, we are created here very competitive also, but having lived in Andalusia from 1994 to 1996 I very well clearly have the competitive spirit of the Spaniards. The fact is that if your you came I believe that your you would help many young people in Minnesota and the United States to choose basketball and other sports and to play here with more creativity and some of the qualities that are mentioned in this article and which your you have. This morning left the news Spain saying that it was the possibility that you still come to east Minnesota year. I hope that the legal things with your present equipment can be solved, and although I have still not found a restaurant with perfectly authentic paella, nor Mountain ham, Minnesota is a good place and you will not pass cold so that literally you will go from your garage to your sport utilitarian vehicle (SUV) to the sessión of practice! Saludo Mark Madsen
At the time of the KG trade, the Boston Globe reported that the Celtics were willing to trade us Rondo instead of Bassy if we gave them Foye, and McHale said no.
I guess Mac could have been saying no at Taylor’s behest, but I’m just going by what I read.
Either way, someone thought Foye was the point guard of our future. Major judgment lapse.
Wow. Great letter by Madsen. If you know any of the romance languages (Spanish, French, Portuguese, etc.) you know what is trying to be said even with all of those translation program typos.
Equipment = team, for one example. C’est un équipe en français.
That article that Wayne linked to was brought up before Kahn got hired. It was one of the reasons the Wolves passed on him the first time around. The only reason he got hired was because the other candidates decided to stay put.
Jerry Schiting(sp) is coaching the summer league team according to Sid.
FYI Marty, it’s not telepathy. McHale flat out said when he traded for Foye, that Randy was the point guard of our future.
And now Kahn says that Rubio is our PG of the future. That’s what they all say, Bryan.
Bryan,
Did McHale shoot your dog or whip your a$$ in golf? You just HATE the guy. Interesting coming from someone who gives Kahn every benefit of the doubt.
Difference is Rubio actually is a point guard. Foye never played point guard before the NBA. He was a converted shooting guard (actually played small forward at Villanova).
Saying Rubio is a point guard is like saying Chris Paul is a point guard. Common sense.
Jama,
Why didn’t we hear more about these lawsuits when he was hired? Did I miss something back then or was it skirted over?
What’s your problem seen? I’m not saying anything about McHale that isn’t true.
He traded for Foye, he said Foye was a point guard, Foye failed miserably as a point guard, and that’s McHale’s fault for not being able to judge his talent correctly.
Ya, it’s so terrible to criticize someone for doing something wrong.
OK, Bryan, you win. I can see you’re still in the same grumpy mood you were in last night. You win, you’re the best, you know it all. I see no one gave you the happy pill.
And yes, you missed it seen. In fact, I never saw you on this blog until last week.
If you look through the archives, you’ll see Jerry made several threads and posts about Kahn’s legal troubles.
So I’m not allowed to point out what McHale did wrong?
You’re so sensitive. Just like McLiar, you defend him like he’s your mama.
McHale made mistakes. People get criticized when they make mistakes. Deal with it.
Anyway, hopefully Kahn isn’t done, because we have a serious overload of forwards and a serious deficiency of guards.
Out of summer league, I’d like to see Rob Kurz and Paul Harris brought to training camp. I think they both could have a future here, especially Kurz.
Otherwise, still crossing fingers for a Rudy Fernandez trade.
My guess is Kahn is still as active as ever, we just don’t know about most of it because Jerry’s on vacation.
It’d be nice to see a preliminary coaching candidate list….
seenenough
Bryan isn’t even close to hating Kevin McHale. I hate him. I think that he should be banned from the state of Minnesota, and that even upon death that his bones should not be allowed to taint the soil of the Great State of Minnesota. Let him go to Boston, or better yet let him have a room on the Titanic. Other than George Bush JR, and Tim Pawlenty, and their cronies there is no one I hate more on this planet than Kevin McHale.
Seenenough… there is a reason why I refer to McHale as the failed abortion.
its summer league i don’t care what anyone does so long as they don’t get injured. Pat Mills has got to be dying. That just sucks.
Curry will get slaughtered in the league on GSW, esp playing with Ellis. Would have been fun to see Curry as part of that Davis, Jackson, Barnes run a few years ago. talk about run and launch.
Expression451: go for a jog or something. that much anger is just eating you up inside. not healthy.
Arenal,
On that I kind of agree… in the summer league it’s about staying healthy. Especially this year since they are not going to have a coach that has anything to do with their future.
Nice sentiments, Expression. You are so eloquent. How do you really feel?
Bryan isn’t time for your night shift and BurgerKing? Your revisionist history and making up stories to support your warped opinions is hilarious.
Bryan,
You have to have wasted your life on this blog to have a valid opinion? I was actually a season ticket holder for a few years, followed the team, and worked for a living. Once I canceled the newspaper and went electronic, I found this blog. I’ll go back and read the references to Kahn’s problems- thanks for the kind advice.
So when Jerry goes on vacation,you become the blog nazi- are those the rules here? Just wondering.
So who are they going to get to coach this version of Power Forwards basketball? Why won’t they get a coach to grow with team and build something around AL? This talk of Rubio being great is premature. He got his butt handed to him in the 6 Euroleague games he played last year. as I’ve stated he averaged 2 pts 2 ast and 2 to’s in those games and only played 12 minutes a game cause he was overwhelmed.Big AL is the guy to build around not a 6-4 180 Rubio who can’t shoot and is an average athlete at best.
LT
he wasn’t overwhelmed; he just didn’t play because the teams are so big and they hand out minutes like its candy. pekovic is one of the best forwards on his team but he only averages 20 minutes per game because they spread out the minutes. the teams in europe are quite big actually, and they feel the need to let others play.
OK Bryan, after your suggestion to look back through the archives to find Kahn’s legal troubles, I decided to take a look. I got through everything from May16-June2, during the time when he was hired, and didn’t see it mentioned. You’d think that it would have come up sometime in one of those threads. Did I miss something?
Pekovic played on a top tier team. as a matter of fact they won the Euroleague title. He played on a team that could compete with the lower tier NBA teams. His team was one of 16 teams that qualified early for Euroleague status. Rubio’s team had to win each and every Euroleague game to qualify. The difference is about a million Euro’s (1.4M US) if you qualify or not. Pekovic picked up lots of fouls some games and didn’t finish blowouts in others so his time was down. He still averaged 14 pts and shot over 60% from field. Rubio struggled vs that level of competition low FG%, low ast, low pts,high to’s. That is a fact you can look it up.
LT we’ll get a coach, geez. breathe man. breathe. i’d rather them take their time and interview than just name someone. what would the coach be doing now anyways? enjoying his summer break thats what. coaches already have their schemes/plans developed, they are needed at camp to implement them. thats it.
we will build with AJ most likely and with Rubio/Flynn. for 18 6-4 180 is perfectly fine. i suppose you were just ripped at 18 right?
seenenough,
After the things I’ve had to deal with in real life, I don’t feel like mixing my words. I like to make sure that my opinion gets out without any questions. People don’t have to agree with me, but I don’t want to confuse anyone. After seeing the education system in this country… if I don’t speak clearly my words could easily get misconstrued.
__________________
Logical Thinker, there is nothing logical in thinking that Al Jefferson is a good build around guy. He is a blackhole in the middle that will continue to stunt the growth and development of every player that plays on the court with him.
I still have a question that has not been answered. Is Al Jefferson so selfish that he refuses to pass, or is he is he too stupid to pass the ball to open ball players? He averages 1.4 assists a game for his career. Funny how the big men in Boston all can pass the ball, and now that team wins, and they can all play defense, and the team wins. Al Jefferson cannot play defense, and he cannot pass the ball. I’m not saying he’s not a good player, but he’s not a build around guy. He’s the 2nd or 3rd option on a good team just like David Kahn said.
Was not ripped at 18 but was also not in NBA. As you know it’s a man league and hockey hair and good looks don’t mean much you gotta ball. He’s not ready and I hope for both his sake and Wolves he stays in Europe.
Exactly, Rubio doesn’t play on that great a team hence he’s far more exposed..and you gripe about an 18y/o not doing that well in a game? Rubio always has a low FG%. When you put Rubio on a good/decent team–aka olympics, he did quite well, especially for a kid playing w/men. how well did you do playing the men in pickup games when you were 17? the old men always kicked ur butt, why? b/c they knew HOW to play better than you did. well rubio didn’t get his butt kicked.
Perkins couldn’t pass the butter without dropping it. So no not all bigs in Boston can pass. AL can flat out play and if he’s your 3rd 4th guy that team could beat Magic Kareem Worhty and co. Wow you’re out there on that one. What have you seen in Rubio to say he’s a 1st or 2nd guy. I’ve seen big AL destroy MIng Duncan and many others.
Rubio is fast, he has court vision that can’t be seen in most of the so called PG’s in this league now days.
Rubio could very easily be a Steve Nash, or Jason Kidd kind of PG, and honestly, since he’s 18 he has the potential to be more because he’s already 6′5, and could gain another inch or two.
Rubio would be perfect for this team because he could find ways to get the ball to the Black Hole, and not have to worry about the scoring. He’s that kind of talent. He’s immature, and he needs time.
Having him play a year or two in Europe where we don’t have to pay him, and he gets to mature more is not such a bad thing. WE all want this team to be good soon, but with Rubio or without him this team is not going to be a playoff team right now. Adding 2 more draft picks, Peckovic to play the 5 (hopefully), and the Rubio will give this team a huge nucleus for a team to grow together. When this team is about a step away we can then trade away the big blackhole for the pieces that we need to make this team a contender!
Posted on May 6th, 2009 – 10:47 AM
By Jerry Zgoda
As for Kahn, here’s a snap shot: Very smart, funny, can be really charming, big ego, temperamental, a really good self-promoter. Left a wake in the D League. Here’s a link to a story in the Dallas-Fort Worth weekly alternative paper a year ago about debts and lawsuits:
http://archive.fwweekly.com/content.asp?article=6931
Sounds like he was in town sometime in the last several days.
yes and as Kahn said we are in the developmental player league now. Thus we are going to develop this kid as he becomes a man. duh. we’ll see if he’s ready when he takes the court. Very few players are ripped when they enter the league as they are only 19-20yrs old at the time. yet few years later they are. so you don’t take any of them b/c they’re not ripped at draft time? yah, ok, sure. whatever.
Expression 451: or are AJ’s teammates so bad he thinks he has a better chance double teamed than they do wide open? MJ went through the same process. so did kobe and lebron. why would AJ be any different? well griped KG was to passive, now you want to complain AJ is to assertive? suppose you whine in Dec about it being cold then whine in July that its to warm.
Ah boston wins now b/c they have allen and KG. duh. not b/c they suddenly all learned to pass stupid. AJ can be a build around guy, he can score..against anyone. Get a C in next years draft, 2 guard..and they were are, young, talented–just need time to grow and gel.
-seen
Looks like you’re illiterate.
Arenal…
Those players in Boston didn’t just learn how to pass. They have players like KG that can play a complete game, and could from the moment he started on the court at 19 years old. Al Jefferson can score, and he can rebound. Those are important, but he can’t defend, and he can’t pass. Boston won because KG taught that team how to play defense, and could pass the ball out of the middle allowing the other players to do what they do best. Shooting outside for Ray Allen, driving to the hole for Pierce, and taking a lot of the passing pressure off of Rondo.
Your comment about a team with Al Jefferson as the 2nd or 3rd best player being better than Magic, Kareem and Worthy is about the stupidest thing I’ve ever read in my entire life… the fact that it comes from you however makes it seem almost normal.
We had Mrs. Doubtfire who was a career 47% shooter from 3pt field goals, and a proven NBA professional. We had Randy Foye who could score (can’t pass)… and we have Ryan Gomes (my favorite player on the team from last season), who can score from anywhere on the court. They have Kevin Love who needs to be 10ft from the basket so he doesn’t get half his shots blocked, but he can shoot. Carney showed he could shoot a little bit. And Al Jefferson still averaged 1.4 assists, and has a career high of 4 assists in one game.
Al Jefferson is a solid player… I’m not saying he’s not a good scoring option, and that he can’t rebound. As someone that rebounds he should be able to score off of other people being allowed to have shots.
I saw Rasho Nestarovich make David Robinson look badly a couple of times… that doesn’t mean Rasho was a great ball player. I saw John Starks dunk on Michael Jordan, and I’ve seen Willie Burton score 50 points in a game. None of that makes them elite ball players.
Jefferson is a middle of the 2nd tier star players in the league. Maybe the 10th or 11th best Center/PF in the league because of his limitations.
Comparing Al Jefferson to LeBron James, Michael Jordan, and your comment against the 80’s lakers is something I am going to have to send in to Dan Cole. Arenal you might have made the stupidest comment in the history of strib blogs (minus KKK Kersten).
Let me guess, you think that Nick Punto should be in the All Star game as well?
Arenal implied Al Jefferson is better than Kareem. That’s all that needs to be said about his lack of basketball IQ.
Blazers are kind of falling apart…
They just offered Millsap a deal that’s nowhere near expensive enough to force Utah to not match it.
This on the heels of reports that the three way trade between Utah, Portland and Chicago was all made up by the Blazers to try and do damage control after losing Hedo.
Plus, the team is trying to lowball Brandon Roy on his new contract.
Pritchard’s kind of undoing all the good will he stocked up on here…
Expression451 - I believe it’s really hard to act like any of us have any sort of conclusive picture of Al Jefferson The Player after these two seasons in Minnesota.
1. He’s had zero reliable perimeter shooters and Kevin McHale/Randy Wittman both stated in public that they instructed Al to go strong to the hole as the first option every time he touched the ball in the paint. So, even with clear instructions to go strong to the hole every time and no perimeters shooters to pass to, you’re going to just assume he’s “too dumb” to pass? I think that’s pretty unfair. The fact is that when Al Jefferson gets the ball on the low block (with the terrible supporting cast of the past two years), the best chance Minnesota had to convert any points was by having Al go strong to the hole.
2. Other than the rookie season of Corey Brewer (who wasn’t even on the floor 2/3 of the time), Al has played with ZERO players who are even average perimeter defenders. That means strong penetrating wings/guards could get into the paint at will. That’s not the recipe for success for any post player trying to defend in the paint.
I CERTAINLY don’t believe that Al’s bread-and-butter will ever be defense or passing, but I think it doesn’t take much to realize that he hasn’t been in a position to succeed in those areas to this point in his time in Minny.
Two years from now, I assume we’ll have better perimeter defenders and better perimeter shooters. Judge the man then… not when he’s playing with a cast of YMCA Men’s League All-Stars.
Bryan - Right on about The Blazers… and how about that intimidation-based letter to the rest of the league last year that threatened legal action against any team that signed Darius Miles?
Now low-balling their franchise player?
As much as I love their young collection of talent, it’s difficult to root for that squad the way they’re doing business.
If Rubio and Flynn stay here long term, those two and Brewer have the potential to be the best perimeter defense in the league. So there’s that to build on at least.
Shooters though is a problem. All we have is Ellington and Brown.
I notice that most sane people are having disagreements with Bryan. Bryan appears to have less than a mature mind. He has a hate fixation on McHale and he lets it get the best of him. Sorry to say, the only known cure for his condition is rectal extraction.
Oh, and class is indeed open. Next?
Does anyone know where Dingus will find a coach with major creds…like HOF, NBA 50 Legend, and 5 championship rings? Someone who has the confidence of the recognized foundational players on the team? Just askin….
Petway is lookin’ mighty in Game 3.
Oh, and Evans impressed in Game 2. Funny, Bryan didn’t rate him on top…
Go back to having sex Arenal’s fat mom, Marty. At least she appreciates you.
And yes, as I told you all, Evans is the real deal.
http://twitter.com/DeMar_DeRozan lookin’ good mid-range, 3-pt jumper flat.
Arenal - I think I seen the movie about your life. I loved your line “Life is like a box of chocolates”.
Arenal Gump!!!!
Re: Milsap
The Blazers reportedly front loaded the contract where the Jazz can’t re-sign him unless they trade Boozer. Not saying they won’t do that but they can’t just keep Milsap without making some moves.
Marty… your comments defending McFailed Abortion pretty much exclude your opinion. McHale was a below average coach, and his evaluation of talent was so destructive.
To be expected to have him as the coach here after all the damage he has done to this team is just plain STUPID.
McHale’s 8-2 streak after losing his first 12 games this season is just proof that at the best we could go from a top 5 pick to a top 12 pick nothing more. McHale wasn’t a great coach, couldn’t even draw up a play, and had to rely on his assistant coaches for that.
You and Arenal need to get a room.
I’m expecting the Jazz to try and make a trade with Chicago happen without Portland’s involvement. Something like Tyrus Thomas and either Brad Miller or Tim Thomas for Carlos Boozer.
They just resigned Okur, so I can’t imagine the long term plan is to resign Boozer as well, seeing how they’ve tried that line for three years now and progressively get less and less far.
Expresso…sooooo who’s the new coach (pick one): (1) a retreat, (2) a has-been, or (3) wannabe. Prediction: Wolves 09/10 season record will be worse than McHale’s coaching career record. Book it, idiot.
I think Bryan is having some PMS issues. Give him/her a break. Are you working the burger station tonight Bryan? Or do you have to take over for your bumbling coworker B.C.?
Arenal, my prognosis remains intact for Bryan and Expresso…rectal extraction. Maybe they can help one another in pulling out their heads.
Arenal it’s your fat mama that’s having PMS issues. Ask Marty, he knows all about it.
Good to see you two getting along though, since Marty’s probably going to be your stepdad soon.
Marty I think Bryan really has a thing for my mom. The boy sounds like he really needs some companionship. Sad that he has to take out his bitterness on this blog.
Gotta run, MKE game comin up. Gotta c my guyz Meeks and Jennings run.
Class is officially out.
Chris Richards is runnin with the Bucks too.
…Jennings? How is he anyone’s guy? None one’s hardly seen him play ever.
Huh. I thought Richard was out at least a year.
Expression 451: i never compared AJ to Kareem. What i did say was that MJ, Kobe, Lebron, etc…had to learn to trust their teammates and give up the ball when they were double teamed. what makes you think AJ wouldn’t go through the same thing?
As FOO pointed out, who do you want him passing out to? Telfair? Foye? Brewer? On that line i can see AJ thinking the team has a better chance of scoring w/him shooting over double teams than passing out to those guys. Again as Foo says once we get shooters and better players around him, then we’ll see if he’s to ‘dumb’ to pass.
KG most definitely had to learn to pass out of double teams, he didn’t come into the league already knowing how to read the double and make the correct pass. This was AJ’s 2nd year being the star of the team, and still has no one to pass out to. what if gomes man didn’t do the double? who is he to pass to? telfair? foye? brewer? that is where the double is likely to come from if the opponent has any defensive strategy. Thus again, i can see his hinking of shooting over that double rather than passing out to those 3.
KG did not have a ‘complete game’ at 19y/o. He developed one as he went along. We all ragged on KG for not being assertive enough, passing to often in the 4th quarter. Now you rag on a guy for being assertive? well that makes sense.
and it wasn’t me who said AJ would be a 2nd option w/Kareem, Magic and Co. so try again.
and how many times did Miller aka Mrs Doubtfire not shoot the ball? quite a few.
Bryan,
I looked up the old archives and Mchale said Foye was available for trades many times. Also I did not see where it was KG plus Foye to get Rondo and not Bassy and the pick. It was always Rondo or Bassy and the Pick. Finally Mchale said he liked Rondo better than Bassy, but the Celts nixed that(he may have been covering for Glen). But nowhere could I find anything on Foye being better than Rondo.
Arenal have you honestly sat on here all day and replied to everyone who wrote something about you. I mean really who has that kind of time o wait I know a teenager with out a job. People are posting what they think and you sit there and say ‘No you’re wrong they should do this and ur a loser’ like your some kind of genius who used to be a GM in the NBA.
Now that I’m done with that rant about a jackass who has no clue…
I’m glad they signed Flynn and Ellingson I think they can help our team in the future. We will be a little bit better this yr with Love in his 2nd yr. and with Jefferson coming back healthy. We are still missing that one piece and if we keep trying to find it in the draft it will take a while to find it. Hey maybe Lebron will sign here or D-Wade or Bosh right Arenal.
I tried to find the article, but couldn’t either. It was a couple of years ago though, so the Boston Globe probably took it down by now.
Also, Foye was definitely available, because we nearly traded him for Iverson.
But the point is that McHale believed Foye was going to be a star point guard. That’s why he (or Taylor…one of the two) kept playing him at the point and why Mac kept passing up opportunities for other point guards.
I heard Magic Johnson so I came running,
Jerry is going to come back and be so happy we are all getting along, lol
Foo…
I definitely get you on the idea that Jefferson has been playing out of position, and that his coaching has been terrible at best. If I have to wait 4 years he is going to be a 10 year vet, and at that point in time there might not be much left in the tank for Jefferson. NBA ballers don’t get better after 29-30.
Eh, I’m sure Jerry expects it. Better us fighting over the Wolves than no one talking about them at all.
Anyone following Rubio’s Twitter account? He updates regularly but I don’t speak Spanish…anyone who can translate, I’d appreciate it.
arsenal;
do you by chance have a god complex?? you really are so full of yourself and must think you can do no wrong. other people have valid arguments but rather than acting like an adult and making your points you resort to name calling and insulting their character by implying they work at burger king and are beneath you. get over you own insecurity and try acting like an adult.
as far as the wolves; im sticking with the twins and wild glen taylor is an idiot and so far kahn hasnt shown hes any different than mcphail.
rubio, who knows if he will be the next jason kid or the next Darko Milicic im leaning towards the latter.
Edkroeten, Bryan tends to exaggerate things and say things like he read something in some article that never existed or he talked to some Portland fans or Celtic fans to justify is bogus opinions.
And B.C., your Arenal’s an ass name probably won’t go very well with your manager at Burger King. Remember the customer is always right and you will have janitor duty when your shift is over.
Bryan,
I read just about everything NBA related, and I never saw anything with Foye going to the Celtics with Garnett…
Arenal, you said that any team that had Jefferson as the 2nd or 3rd option would be better than the Lakers with Magic, Kareem, and Worthy. 3 NBA hall of famers, and Jefferson is not a bad ball player, but he is nowhere near a hall of fame guy.
Yeah the Lakers had mutiple great players and we have 1 good player, Al is not a great player yet
see comments like that make me think U R a teenager w/o a job bc u didnt defend urself like me i dont work at burger king i am in the military so to me it seems like u maybe actually work at BK and are the janitor since that is your only come back to people
I don’t remember Foye and KG ever being mentioned together in the same trade back then, I do remember Foye and a draft pick for Iverson was talked about a few years back
Just wanted to post that I read through the thread as I was intrigued as how insanely retarded Bryan is. He seriously thinks he knows everything there is to know about the T’Wolves. Don’t tell him he is wrong either as you will hit a special nerve. Hey Bryan, F U!
I talk to fans from all over the league
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/gentopic.php?board=2000208
It’s like the RealGM Boards, but less idiotic.
You doubted me when I cited Blazers fans about Portland pursuing Lee, Hinrich and Miller, and you were wrong.
You AND Jerry BOTH doubted me when I cited Kings fans, saying they WOULD take Evans, not Rubio, and you were BOTH wrong.
I’m not McLiar. I don’t make things ups.
Arenal, I own my own business, 3rd location is opening up in Savage next month. I was working for a living long before you were a thought, and I’m sure I will be retired for a long time before you have an original coherent thought.
I liked Evans over Rubio at the time too, I kept typing EVANS EVANS EVANS, mainly because of the contract problems and the fact he didn’t want to even work out for us
Bryan: http://translation2.paralink.com/
is a good spot to get a translation for Rubio’s twitters.
need4speed: the wild? what have they done besides be mediocre? same goes for the twins the past 15yrs. kahn has shown he’s better than McHale at drafting as he took the best players available. If nothing else they provide value in trades.
And w/you leaning towards the latter that means what? unless you are a scout why should that opinion of yours matter any?
Kinda makes you think Arenal, Marty, and seenenough are all the same person.
It’s like on the RealGM boards, where it looks like there’s 300 Laker trolls, when it’s really just 4 or 5 with 20 accounts apiece.
Whao, sweet translator! Thanks dude!
That’s weird. Rubio said he visited Rudy’s “campus”. Does he mean house?
no problem. its not me, its the other guy who needs to get out a bit more.
no, its just some stuff gets lost in the translation. its not perfect but it’ll give you at least some idea of what he’s twittering about.
I’m not certain of the circumstances, but I know that Rondo was a deal-breaker for The Celtics unless we agreed to ante up further… so we settled on Telfair and other parts instead.
I’m not sure what Ainge’s request was from us to include Rondo… sounds like it could have been Foye. Because, really, who else at the time would we have refused to part with?
The Blazers give Millsap a 4 year deal for 32-36 million, and Utah wants to trade Boozer fast to match Millsap’s deal. Maybe if the Blazers get Millsap, they will have a crowded front court and maybe they would be up to giving us Pryzbilla with Rudy Fernandez now, if the Wolves want Pryzy, maybe they don’t and just want Rudy
It’s close enough. I can figure out what he’s saying more or less.
I’m tracking the Rubio Facebook page too to try and figure out if it’s legit. So far his updates mirror his Tweets, but that could just mean someone is copying them.
And don’t worry. I can tell the difference between the Arenals, because the troll one can’t post without insulting me in some way. Pretty easy distinction.
I’d rather not get Pryz seeing as how we are likey to land a C in next years draft, but i wouldn’t mind landing Rudy..problem is what do we have that the blazers would want/need if they do get Milsap?
C-Note… getting Rudy Fernandez might help with Rubio. Getting Prysonbitchbilla would be a solid move depending on what we have to give up to get them.
There’s reportedly 6 or 7 teams interested in Boozer, so moving him shouldn’t be a problem for Utah. Just a matter of if they can do it in a week.
I think Portland needs to be very cautious right now. If Utah moves Boozer and matches their offer for Millsap, the Blazers not only lose Millsap, but probably very likely and chance they had of trading for Hinrich as well.
arsenal; im no scout but how many players from europe become superstars and if you look at the ones the wolves have gone after they never seem to pan out.
and the wild and twins atleast make the playoffs the wolves had a contender until mcphail tore it all apart and the team has been horrible and failed to make any steps in the right direction.
my opinion may not matter by why does yours matter more? what makes you smarter? you sound like a 17 or 18 year old child who seems to know everything.
if rubio’s a star and curry(the player i would have rather seen us take is a bust) then i was completely wrong but who knows i could be right and the wolves are right back where they started with high draft picks that have amounted to nothing.
be well guys, I hope you all have a safe weekend. I’ve got a wedding tomorrow, and then hoping to go see The Hold Steady tomorrow night.
-need4speed99
Be aware there are two Arenal’s on this blog. One’s a clown who stole the name.
And while none of our Euro picks have done fantastic (Rasho is the best, and he’s very thoroughly average), we’ve never picked one as talented or proven as Rubio either. Euro picks this high in the draft pan out mush more often than they bust.
Rubio might bust like Milicic. But he might also turn into superstar like Dirk.
And really, again, there was no way we could not take him. We’d be laughed out of the league if we had passed on him TWICE.
No Bryan, not illiterate, just didn’t dig back far enough. Thanks for the label, though.
Ya, sorry, that was my bad. I didn’t read the dates you posted, just say “back through May”.
Expression451 - You said:
“Jefferson has been playing out of position, and that his coaching has been terrible at best.”
On the first point, you’re wrong. I never said that. His wing-span is only 3 inches less that Hasheem Thabeet’s. And in addition to Jefferson’s wingspan, he’s build like a tank… So there’s nothing about his body or game that can’t handle the Center position. As somebody on this board said a few weeks ago, you play from the tips of your fingers, not from the top of your head. He can score on any C or PF in the league, was the only 23-11 player in The NBA and was 12th among centers in The NBA in blocks…
As for your second point that his coaching has been terrible, if you have a beef with Jefferson’s passing (which you do and I don’t), you’re right to blame the coaching. Though I credit McHale for refining his post-moves (though Jefferson already had a nice arsenal before coming to Minny), McHale and Wittman are the ones to blame for his lack of passing out of the paint because they basically told him to never pass from the low-block. But even then, with Al Jefferson on the low block, I’m not sure if I WANT him to pass. But since you’re fixated on his passing… Jefferson was 17th in the NBA among centers in assists per game - better than folks like Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum, Rasheed Wallace, Andrea Bargnani, Brook Lopez and Zyndrunas Ilgauskas. So I’m not really concerned with his passing. I’ve never understood your broken-record rant about Jefferson being “dumb” or a “Blackhole” or whatever… If we had ace 3-point shooters and Jefferson wasn’t as dominant scoring in the paint, I could hear the argument.
But the question is… If you’re so bent on Al Jefferson passing up shots, WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANT HIM PASSING SHOTS UP FOR?
I would rather have Jerryd Bayless over Hinrich anyways, he was very impressive when he got some time a few 20 point games
He does take some bad shots, but 4 out of 5 are good shots, if we can just get him to take 14/15 good shots and play a little D, he will be even better and the team will be better.
-C-Note
That’s reportedly part of what caused the Utah/Chicago/Portland trade to fall through. Chicago wanted Bayless.
I get the feeling that Portland has developed a superiority complex and thinks it can fleece anyone on every trade. They way overplayed their hands trying to acquire Richard Jefferson and Vince Carter last season, and in this three way trade, it wasn’t even mentioned who they’d be giving up.
I don’t ever think Al Jefferson will be a dominant defender like he is a dominant scorer. But I do believe better perimeter defenders (even if we just upgraded our perimeter defense from terrible to average) will help Al out a ton and make what I consider to be his “average” defensive ability stand up just fine.
No doubt he’s got to improve his defense, but I just think it’s too overly simplistic to blame it all on one player.
Time will tell on Rubio. Like all players he has holes in his game. I hope he pans out but to claim star is premature. E-451 don’t know what you see when AL plays but until he got hurt I saw a low post scorer that was not defendable a lot of nights. Like most young guys he is not a good defender but has the ability to improve. As far as your evaluation of Rubio your right about floor vision it’s great. Wrong about athletic ability he’s NBA average at best for 6-4 but is long and may be able to use that to help him on D. Flynn is fast Rubio is not in his class.
If Portland get Millsap they should play a system similar to LA
1. Bayless
2. Roy
3. Webster/Outlaw
4. Aldridge
5. Oden
6. Millsap would be like the Odom for the Lakers and have a 3 man rotation at the 4 and 5 and try and get something for Pryzzy
Rubio’s got good footspeed. He can’t jump anything like Flynn can, but he’s quick baseline to baseline.
The important thing with him is his physical limitations don’t limit his game. He’s like Nash and Kidd…he’s too smart, he just knows how to play the field exactly right and get it done.
Bryan I hope you’re right on physical limitations not hindering his game. I’ve tried to find more actual game films to watch him play and it’s hard to find. I would like to see him stay overseas and mature. I feel the NBA would be too much for him right now. His lack of shooting would cause opponents to sag of him so the best part of his game (draw/kick) would suffer.
Is sending a couple 20-somethings out to Las Vegas a good thing? LOL
Bryan,
I did not call you a liar, I just said I couldn’t find the Foye for Rondo part. Also I found several places where Mchale said he wanted Rondo, so the fact that they did not get Rondo probably wasn’t Mchale’s fault. Now I am not saying Mchale never made a mistake, but not getting Rondo probably wasn’t his fault. Finally Mchale made a great deal with the Mayo/Love deal, Love will be the better pro; he is a better passer and has a better feel for the game. Mayo will never be a driver he will be a short Mike Miller, who takes too many shots.
this blog sucks when Jerry is gone 
I’ll chime in here briefly on a couple things:
Yes, the existing assistants — led by Jerry Sichting, aided by JB Bickerstaff and Dean Coooper — are coaching summer league. They also could be the nucleus of your coaching staff next year because whenever the new head coach gets hired, it’s going to be late in the game. I’d expect the Wolves to hire a No. 1 assistant but keep most or all of those guys because everybody but Ed Pinckney has another year on their contracts.
As for the Rondo issue in the KG trade, as I heard it from people in the know: The Wolves were holding out for Rondo knowing the Celtics wouldn’t kill a KG deal over Rajon Rondo. A Celtics business exec called Rob Moor saying the Celts felt pressured to get its season-ticket campaign going and offered to throw in money — don’t know the number, but we’re talking seven figures — to consummate the deal right now and Moor convinced Taylor to sign off on the deal because of the money rather than trying to hold out a few more days (or weeks) for Rondo rather than Telfair. I’m not sure Taylor knew enough or had enough feeling one way or another whether it was Telfair or Rondo. Money talked once again in a Wolves personnel matter.
As for the coaching search, Kahn is trying to keep this all hush-hush and if that’s the way he wants to play it, we’re not going to invest man hours at this time of the year trying to hunt down who he might have talked to. Our resources are just spread too thin. The Wild kept its beat writers informed somewhat on their GM and coaching searches, which resulted in timely coverage. The Wolves apparently don’t care that there’s no public buzz about their coaching search. Some of the names that have come out — Portland asst coach Monty Williams and now Elston Turner — suggests to me that Kahn is shopping on a tight budget.
Agree on Mayo/Love. Kevin will be a world class rebounder and solid fundamental player. Mayo will always score more but take too many shots and turn it over at a high rate. Love has to develop a post game that will allow him to beat up on the secondary defenders that will be guarding him. Another area people forget is Big AL will always draw the other teams top post defender allowing Love to look better vs a lesser guy.
bryan; thanks for poitning that but either one has good points just a bit too high and mighty.
also when it comes to european players there are far more busts than actually make it. the nba is far more difficult and has MUCH better athletes than what most of the european guys are used to. im not raggin the europeans saying they suck just they dont have to face the lebron’s, d wades, kobes and shaq(in his prime that guys over here do.
rasho was actually rated very high and he was ho hum. rubio has talent as a passer and handling the ball but every scouting report i read said hes not as athletic as alot of the guys in the nba and cannot shoot or create his own jump shot. he is still very young and i agree with most time will tell.
i would also strongly disagree on giving him a huge sum of money upfront b/c as others have said even if he waits and goes back in next year he risks dropping lower and would lose alot of money. as far as opening up the banks so if they pan out later they will remember that an resign approach, hes already made it pretty clear he doesnt want to be in minnesota so even if he comes here im willing to bet he jumps ship when his first contract is up.
Thanks Jerry, enjoy your time off
Jerry thanks for the update. And Bryan is proved wrong yet again. No surprise there.
Jerry welcome back.. Are you in Vegas ? Lots of talk about Big AL not being a cornerstone guy. What’s your take? Also how do you feel on the” Rubio is a star” before he’s played a minute of NBA ball?
need4speed: kukoc was pretty good. parker, ginobli are pretty good. barbosa is decent. kobe’s not bad-can be argued he came from europe. Sabonis was pretty good. etc. european players have only been coming over in decent numbers recently, thus pretty hard to judge them on not sending over and stars.
than that just means the wolves have bad european scouts or bad decision makers who pick the wrong european players.
Exactly, the wild have had the same amount of success in the PO’s as the wolves. one decent run.
Twins haven’t done anything in 15yrs. Is it honestly that great to make the PO’s and then get destroyed
b/c i’m not the one making statements that Rubio mill be another Milicic. you are. since you have to experience, what makes you qualified to make such a claim?
Curry won’t be a bust provided he plays along a large PG or a large SG who can create. He is going to be a huge defensive liabiliy for GSW w/Ellis as his backcourt mate. Rubio has the hype and the talent, thus at worse they trade his value for something more immediate. LeBron could’ve been the next Howard Minor, should Cleveland have not taken him b/c of that?
Not to mention that none of the Spanish players have ever busted, and all of their guards have done great as NBA players. About the worst any of them did was Raul Lopez, who was a solid backup. But if you look at the trio of Rudy Fernandez, Juan Carlos Navarro and Jose Calderon, that’s a pretty good benchmark for what Rubio will be AT THE LEAST in the NBA.
Euro scouts say that while the ACB league isn’t as competitive as the NBA, it is actually more competitive than the NCAA. I think a lot of the concerns that Rubio isn’t ready come from Euro stereotypes, and even those aren’t true most of the time.
Not to be cliche, but again, the Olympic gold medal game. If Rubio can hold his own out there for 30 minutes, he can handle the NBA. God knows there aren’t any NBA teams as good as the one we fielded in the Olympics.
I’m not really back. I just took a quick read on the blog and chimed in a bit. Nope, not in Vegas. We’re not covering it this year, and if the Favre thing comes down this week as expected, coverage of summer league would have ended up where the tires ads used to be (when there were tire ads) anyway. I think Kahn is right: I don’t think Jefferson is a No. 1 guy on a title contender, not athletic enough and if you look at the guys who really dominate (Kobe, LeBron, DWade), they’re (with the exception of Dwight Howard) wing players who control the game. The Wolves need to find themselves one of those, which, of course, is a lot easier said than done. Rubio will be exciting from the start, but he won’t be a star from the beginning. It’s going to take him time. I wouldn’t expect him to have the immediate impact of, say, Derrick Rose because he just doesn’t have that combination of strength and quickness yet.
Good point Bryan Except for Navarro who was a star there and never played here much.
Lovely. So it wasn’t McHale or Taylor, it was Rob Moor.
We should have jut held out.
Plus, it would have been interesting to see if Bassy could have played well enough for the Celtics to win that championship.
Bryan I think you really need to work on your fact checking and research abilities. Making things up out of the blue and passing them off as facts just makes you look stupid. I hope you learned your lesson.
Eh, Navarro got cheated by the Grizzlies, just like everyone else. He went way out of his way to sign with them because he wanted to play in the NBA with Pau, and then Memphis went and burned inventory.
It’s too bad. Navarro was looking like the second coming of Jason Terry before he got fed up with Memphis and quit the NBA.
Jerry didn’t counter anything I said. He said the Wolves were holding out for Rondo. The Globe report I saw said the Celtics were holding out for Foye.
PS Note how Jerry said Al is not a #1 player, and Dwight Howard is.
hint hint Arenal.
Bryan the difference is Jerry is credible and you are not. Show us this story you read, because right now you are the only one holding onto this imaginary Foye myth. Let me guess your source is some tool on RealGM right?
Boston Globe. Once again you forget what I say.
And if Jerry is credible, then it looks like you’re wrong about Jefferson being better than Howard, hmm?
Jefferson better than Dwight Howard? Whoever would have said that?
Also, we’ve established that my chat forum sources are just as accurate, if not more so, than many “official” articles that get published, and even Jerry at times.
Show me the story. Talent evaluation is different than lying about made up stories to support your weak position. No link means you failed yet again. But I guess you are used to hearing that right Bryan?
-Jerry
Arenal of course. He claims that Al’s superior scoring ability (which that is true) makes him better than Dwight’s superior rebounding, athleticism and defense (that part is obviously false).
Sorry Arenal, I tried to look it up on the Globe’s site, but they must have taken it down or archived it.
I know the Celtics wanted Foye though, because it was all over the forums I frequent too. If I remember right, one of the Celtics fans there was the one who linked me to the article in the first place.
LOL, WE have established that your chat forum sources are more credible? HAHAHAHAHAHA who is this WE you speak of? Go back and read what you just wrote and try not to laugh. You have absolutely no credibility and then you say your chat buddies who sit in their basement all day have better connections than an NBA team’s beat writer. Congrats Bryan, I think you just pwned yourself.
Here’s what I wrote earlier in this blog Arenal:
Bryan says:
July 10th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
I talk to fans from all over the league
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/gentopic.php?board=2000208
It’s like the RealGM Boards, but less idiotic.
You doubted me when I cited Blazers fans about Portland pursuing Lee, Hinrich and Miller, and you were wrong.
You AND Jerry BOTH doubted me when I cited Kings fans, saying they WOULD take Evans, not Rubio, and you were BOTH wrong.
Ok I am out of here, after reading something that ridiculous there isn’t much else that I need to say. All I can say to you Bryan is good night and good luck. You’re going to need it lol.
So unless you deny that I said the Kings would take Evans (and I’ll look it up in the previous blog posts if you want me to), then yes, the Kings fans I talked to were more accurate than 90% of the mocks AND Jerry, who all said they’d take Rubio.
Way to dodge the Dwight Howard issue…
I mean, c’mon, I answer your accusations. don’t I? Don’t wuss out like that…
Jerry, any word from Dan Fegan? Not that I’d every say it to him in negotiations, but the guy is pretty underhanded when it comes to the bargaining table. I can’t help but feel like this Rubio situation would be going a lot smoother if he was represented by, say, Arn Tellem or Lon Babby. Someone who doesn’t always seem to have a hidden agenda.
Speaking of Fegan, anyone see the ridiculous contract Verajao got from the Cavs? They paid waaaaayyyyy too much for him…more than they probably would have paid for Villanueva.
Adding Shaq makes them more capable of containing Dwight Howard, but won’t help them against Rashard Lewis, which is where the Cavs really lost that series.
Also leaves them very vulnerable to Antawn Jamison. And the Wizards already have the Cavs outmatched as it is.
Yeah Bryan, Evans is the real deal. Did you read Henry Abbott’s True Hoop? An excerpt:
“As good as Evans was off the dribble for himself, he rarely looked to create for others. Not once did Evans complete a play for a teammate, something that should concern anyone with a vested interest in the Evans experiment at the point. A couple of times he lobbed passes into traffic, but only if his path to the basket was stymied — and he failed on virtually every one of those attempts. Evans finished with four turnovers, and his only two assists came on simple entry passes into the post.”
Sure, he’ll improve, but he’s not the guy I want running the offesnse. Let the Kings have him.
NBA free agent tracker:
5&10
I agree with that. I think the Kings are in for trouble trying to use him as a point guard.
I would have loved him on the Wolves as a SG with Flynn as the point guard. But I love Rubio more, and I think he’ll end up being the better player in the end, and by quite a big margin at that.
Bryan
I seem to remember being chastised by you because I had the audacity to say that the Telfair/Rondo deal wasn’t McHale’s choice.
Your words:
“The problem with not taking Rondo wasn’t that Telfair was a safer pick or that McHale like Bassy more. It was the McHale was convinced that Foye was going to be a star point guard. That’s where the error in judgment was. ”
And this:
“At the time of the KG trade, the Boston Globe reported that the Celtics were willing to trade us Rondo instead of Bassy if we gave them Foye, and McHale said no.
Either way, someone thought Foye was the point guard of our future. Major judgment lapse.”
Again, how do you have any credibility on this board when you just make up stuff?
Bryan
You seem to LOVE the unproven, LOVE every opponent’s line-up and HATE everything we have here. The grass isn’t always greener, fella.
Ya, just like I was making it up when I said the Blazers wanted Kirk Hinrich or the Kings would draft Tyreke Evans or that Foye wouldn’t work as a point guard.
I know what I read about the KG trade. The Celtics wanted Foye for Rondo, McHale said no. Doesn’t mean he didn’t want Rondo…just means he didn’t think Rondo was worth Foye.
Anyway, I hope the obligation to play Henderson doesn’t keep us from giving Rob Kurz or Paul Harris a fair chance. Both those guys would be great pickups for us, especially Kurz.
And no, I’m not overwhelmingly happy with the team. Even with Rubio and Flynn, we’re still a group of badly mismatched parts. There’s a pretty well established prototype for what a contending team looks like, and we don’t even seem to be on the same planet right now.
The more I think about it, the most I think we should try and help facilitate a Boozer trade. I would imagine Thomas or Cardinal’s contract(s) would help make ends meet with Boozer’s deal being worth over $12mil. If we get in on the proposed three way trade, we could help Chicago out by substituting Cardinal for Tim Thomas or Brad Miller, and get Rudy Fernandez and, say, Kyle Korver in return.
Tried it on the Trade Machine
Chicago gets:
Carlos Boozer
Utah gets:
Tyrus Thomas
Brian Cardinal
Portland gets:
Kirk Hinrich
Craig Smith
Minnesota gets:
Rudy Fernandez
Travis Outlaw
What do you guys think?
Bryan,
Trat trade would be sweet except that Portland just got suckered into an offer sheet on Paul Millsap. I see no incentive for Utah on that trade. I still say Flynn and whoever for Fernandez and Pryzbilla. Pryz can fill the middle next year, and we can draft another big man in 2010. Portland has to move Fernandez because he is good enough to be the starting shooting guard on many teams but he is not going to get enough minutes with Brandon Roy. He will bolt the Blazers or the US as soon as he can if the situation in Portland remains in the status quo.
What about:
Love to Chicago
Hinrich to Portland
Fernandez and Thomas to Minnesota
5 consecutive nonsense posts by Bryan. Here is one. Hey Bryan a dork on realgm just said Lebron is 100% lock to sign here next here. They are working on a sign and trade for him but the deal is hung up because Kahn is really high on Mark Madsen. Oh wait that dork was you, and we know how you like to “make” things up.
Ok enjoy your day fellas, I am off to the lake. I am sure Bryan can take it from here.
On Rondo and Foye, it’s too early to judge either of these players. The last two years Rondo played alongside Allen and Pierce in the backcourt, which is arguably the best SG/SF tandom in the league. Foye played alongside absolute garbage at those positions. It makes a huge difference. Both players bring different attributes and Foye can’t guard Rondo, whereas Rondo could shut down Foye. Nonetheless, you put Foye alongside Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler, and you might see a different player.
It was five or six years before it became obvious that Ray Allen was better than Stephon Marbury.
I think Foye had/has potential, and its too bad he had to be traded for Roy which tarnished his time here. Foye was not great here, and his flaws have been well-documented, but in my mind drafting Foye was only half as idiotic as drafting Jonny Flynn with the sixth pick this year.
Another thing on Foye is that in the summer of 2007 during the Garnett trade everyone was really high on him. And he tore it up in the summer league that year. At the time, the Celtics wondered if Rondo could actually play point guard on a summer team. That freak knee injury Foye suffered prior to the 2007 season may have tanked his chances here. He never got back into rhythm at the point guard position after that injury.
I’d go with that trade Mike.
Based on the reports I’ve read, the Blazers are more interested in Hinrich than Millsap, and the offer sheet for Millsap is just their way of trying to force Utah’s hand. I think Portland would like to see their initial three way trade go through, and quite honestly, I expect the Jazz to move Boozer and match the offer for Millsap regardless of whether Portland gets Hinrich in a trade or not.
I think another possibility is to trade Love to Utah. His game is perfect for that system and he’d be a perfect replacement for Boozer. So maybe that’s an option too.
I’d like to see some sort of trade with Portland go down though. I think shipping out a forward or two and bringing in Fernandez as part of the return would do a lot…it’d balance the roster, would give us a legit starting shooting guard and reliable deep threat, and would cater to Rubio. It’s all wins really.
Foye was a monster his rookie summer league. Vegas MVP if I remember right.
I think more than anything, playing out of position was his problem. He’s not really a “thinking” player, not a cerebral guy, and point guard is really a cerebral position. It’s almost impossible to pick up for the first time as a pro when you don’t have the instincts for it and haven’t ever played it before.
He’ll do a lot better in Washington coming off the bench in a combo guard role. That’s probably his niche as a pro anyway, and not having full time playmaking duties will really help his game. He can be an off the ball scorer and let Arenas, Miller and Caron Butler do the playmaking.
Yeah, he had some good games at PG but he didn’t have the consistent playmaking ability. He also lacked the mid-range game. If you want to start at PG and not play along great playmaking wing players, you better be able to get to the basket or have a solid mid-range game. Like I’ve said before Jonny Flynn and Telfair should be watching Terrell Brandon and Sam Cassell tapes.
you guys are all tools, get a life.
Is Memphis happy with OJ Mayo?
I would think so. I haven’t heard of them having any problems.
It’s nice to hear that logical and I agree on a couple of things!
I also believe the Love deal was a Wolves win and that Love will be the better pro than Mayo.
We also have common ground regarding Rubio’s athleticism… I don’t think it’s going to hurt him because his game is not based on athleticism, but it’s definitely true that Rubio is not overly athletic.
Bryan - You said:
“PS Note how Jerry said Al is not a #1 player, and Dwight Howard is.”
I believe this is accurate… offensively, Al is a smidge better than Howard. But Howard is just SO MUCH better than Jefferson defensively. So, to me, that’s why Howard is a true No. 1 option and Al is just a very, very good No. 2 option.
To me, Howard and Tim Duncan are the only franchise big men in the league. They’re the only ones who can command a game from the post on both ends of the floor.
Bryan - Two things:
1. I actually also remember the same thing… The Wolves strongly preferred Rondo over Telfair, but the cost (in some form or another) was going to end up being Randy Foye. That was a deal-breaker for The Wolves, so they went with Telfair.
2. I like your energy on this board, but please quit the run of “I-told-you-so’s” We all have things that we predict that go right and wrong. I predicted that the team who took Darius Songalia’s two remaining years would ice the No. 5 pick. But, other than my very facetious, “I am a prophet!” posts, you don’t hear the “I-told-you-so’s” because nobody cares.
BTW… I’m not hung up on Rob Kurz. I like him, but he’s another PF.
The summer-league guy I’m most hopeful that we sign is Paul Harris, for no other reason than his elite-level perimeter defense skills.
As I’ve been saying continually, I’d be happy to go into the season with a combination of Ellington/D-Leaguers/low-tier free agents at the SG position.
Paul Harris would fit that description. He has a TON to do offensiely (though he’ll get away with some bad habits because of his sick athleticism), but starting on Day 1, he’ll be one of the better defensive and rebounding 2-guards in The NBA. Gotta find SOME kind of niche offensively though for him to have any type of career.
Just proving to Arenal that I’m not making these things up like he claims.
The “I told you so” posts are just answers to his accusations. He says “that’s not true”, I say “yes it is, and here’s the proof”.
I’m thinking I’m just going to ignore him altogether though now. I tried to talk sense into him, and well, it didn’t work.
And the reason I like Kurz is because he’s a big man that can block shots and shoot the three.
I’m not hung up on him either. If we don’t bring him to camp, then oh well. But he’ll help us a lot more than Cardinal or Craig Smith, so I’d like to see him stick if we can find the room.
Foo,
What you and Bryan are “remembering” and what actually happened are two separate things. Listen to Jerry and Asch. Both said that Foye wasn’t involved in the trade. What do you know that they don’t?
Mike B - I fully expect Randy Foye to play much better in Washington this year than he ever did (at least consistently) in Minnesota.
That said, I believe we had to make that deal. And just because Foye potentially could be better in Washington, it doesn’t mean we have the supporting cast that would have gotten those results out of him here.
So, I believe you’re right, it will be a while before we really know who is better among Foye and Rondo. That said, Rondo’s got a pretty strong head-start.
To Jerry Zgoda … please remove “Arenas” access to this site. His childish behavior is an insult to all of your other readers.
-seenenough
Jerry said the Wolves were holding out for Rondo. The Globe said the Celtics were holding out for Foye. Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive. Jerry never said that Foye wasn’t being considered in that trade.
If it was a standoff between us and Boston, then both Jerry and the Globe are correct. They wanted Foye for Rondo, we didn’t want to give up Foye, so we renegotiated for Telfair and the money Jerry mentioned.
seenenough - Do you hear me saying that I’m the authority of all things Wolves? I’m just saying that I recall the same thing that our guy Bryan is saying…
But again, what any of us heard or read or whatever about what DIDN’T happen in the trade is obviously hearsay… the transactions page doesn’t give us the play-by-play in the trade negotiations. My recollection (I think I heard it on KFAN from PA or Sludge) was that their impression was that Foye was the Rondo deal-breaker.
I don’t really care about arguing that because nobody really knows what the private dialogue was between Ainge and McHale.
I’m OK with Kurz the player, but he’s got a long ways to match Craig Smith or Brian Cardinal (he’s played for a long time and had some pretty decent seasons - though his contract was a huge Jerry West error).
Completely different players Foye/Rondo. One is a scoring combo guy the other is a pure point. It will always depend on who they’re playing with as to how they perform. With a dominant ball handler (Labron, Gilbert A) Foye will out shine Rondo, because they’ll load up on the dominant player and make Rondo shoot it.But with scores and shooters Rondo will create more shots for them and look better. Rondo is a better defender than Randy so he gets the edge in my book. Foye will play well this year in Washington and we’ll wish we had him back especially if this Rubio mess gets worse.
I don’t think Kurz is as good as Smith or Cardinal. But I do think he can help us a lot more. His game diversifies our frontcourt, which is something Cardinal and definitely Smith don’t do.
As for Rondo, I think this past postseason proved he’s not just riding the coattails of the big 3. He was absolutely commanding in their first round win over the Bulls, and basically averaged a triple double across the two rounds Boston played.
I’m not worried about missing Foye. Whether or not Rubio plays this year, I’m completely confident Jonny Flynn will make us forget all about Randy.
BTW… I was listening to Dave Sinnykin and Trent Tucker this morning on KFAN - they reported that Mitch Kupchak recently said two things:
1. The trade they had with The Knicks (29th pick to NYK) could have been rescinded up until the moment the pick was made. He said IF The Wolves passed on Wayne Ellington that The Lakers would have kept the 29th pick and taken Ellington.
2. Mitch Kupchak also went on the record saying that Wayne Ellington will be the best NBA player among the four UNC players (Hansborough, Lawson, Ellington and D.Green).
Interesting.
Foo going into season with Ellington and D-leaguers at the 2 spot would be baaaaaad. No wins and the poor young guys not learning the ropes from a vet. Young guys get everyone excited at draft and summer league then get taken to woodshed in winter. Big AL will be one mad dude if that’s the plan.
Logical - I don’t really have any interest in re-hashing our views of how we should staff the 2-guard spot. It’s been well-established that you want a veteran (haven’t you advocated for Allen Iverson and others?); I don’t want to invest anything (not this off-season).
My post was simply to evaluate Paul Harris’ game. So, again - very good defense and rebounding, very limited at this time offensively.
I only want a veteran player if we can pick one up cheap in free agency.
Otherwise, the only “veteran” shooting guard I’d trade for is Fernandez.
OH! I just figured out who the Cavs’ rookie, Christian Eyenga is. He’s the black guy that plays with Rubio for DVK. The one the SKIES.
http://acbtv.acb.com/video/1966
Highlight #8. He’s the one that finishes the ally oop.
Hoopshype is reporting the salary of Flynn at 2,969,280 for 2009-10 and Ellington at 1,003,560. That would be 120% of the salaries that Jerry posted, so if Hoopshype is right, we gave them the standard 20% raise above the minimum.
Interesting that Jerry reported the Wolves jumped at the chance for cash in the KG deal rather than hold out for Rondo in the end. Glen Taylor is very short-sighted, this team needs talent if it is ever going to sell tickets again.
Think of how much differently this team would have looked last year with Rondo in a uniform instead of Bassie and some cash.
I agree with something that Foo said yesterday about Al’s ability to play center. He actually has a great wingspan and he is long enough to play center. I think he will be able to hold his own defensively when he has some competent defenders around him. When he got hurt last year our D went straight down the tubes. Even though it wasn’t great when he was in, it was god awful when he was out.
A few things.
1. As Jerry pointed out if the Wolves would have waited they could have had Rondo in the deal (without giving up Foye) that is exactly as it was reported at hoops.com when the trade was made. So I don’t how see a Foye for Rondo could of been anything but a ruse. The Wolves wouldn’t have gotten enough with KG and Foye for Al, Rondo and parts (no pick) that would have been stupid at the time considering how high everyone was on Foye.
2. You don’t trade Love for T. Thomas and Rudy F. thats just dumb. You can get Rudy for a song from Portland and Love is better than T. Thomas now just think in a few years. Rudy for C. Smith or expiring contract or a dozen basketballs fine. Portland doesn’t need him and if you look at what they are saying doesn’t really want him on the team.
3. Bryan go read about Memphis on Nba.com or hoops.com there have been several mentions of their dissatisfaction with Mayo. Scouts say he is not a good facilator, a sharp passer,a good defender or a penetrator; so really all that leaves is he can shoot. Which he does a lot of, which is not always to the benefit of his team.
4. We can go round and round on the KG trade but the fact is KG had to go at that point. We got Al who may not be a KG but we did not get robbed, like in the Cassel deal. Bryan if you want to point to a management mistake that was the biggest one (Yes bigger than Roy for Foye at least we got a Million for that) we got the lesser player with a long contract and had to give up a pick to do it. That by far was the biggest error in the Taylor/Mchale era.
Arsenal.. get a job..
your going to need it with all that extra money your willing to pay me
