Goodbye Vegas, hello Espana
Posted on July 20th, 2009 – 2:40 AMBy Jerry Zgoda
The Wolves concluded their Las Vegas Summer League play Sunday with a 1-4 record after a 93-85 loss to Chicago in which Ben Woodside started at point guard while Jonny Flynn, who proved himself able to get to the rim and finish about anytime he wanted most of the week, came off the bench and had 7 points, 7 assists and 4 turnovers in 23 minutes.
David Kahn heads for Spain today and meetings presumably with Ricky Rubio and his DKV Joventut team in a trip that Kahn says his only mission is to be “helpful” in facilitating Rubio’s contract buyout so he can play in the NBA this fall.
The Wolves, by NBA rules, can pay only $500,000 of a buyout that could cost as much as $6.6 million. But with European teams everywhere suffering financially from the global economic downturn — and DKV Joventut in particular financial trouble — it seems more and more likely a deal eventually will get done. If it happens and Rubio signed by the Wolves by fall, it probably will because Rubio’s Spanish club is desperate for that buyout money and because Rubio’s representatives will have lined up enough endorsement deals to pay for that buyout, and then some.
Kahn said he expects to return from Spain sometime later this week.
Some other thoughts and impression after scouring the boxscores and watching the Vegas games from afar:
* Flynn impressed big time with his strength and quickness. It is, of course, only summer league, but he showed all the instincts you’d hope to see from a rookie point guard.
* A tweet from ESPN.com’s Kevin Arnovitz’s during Sunday’s game: “An informal poll of execs and coaches: Wayne Ellington is a real NBA player.”
* Corey Brewer’s week was just like his career so far: Uneven. But he did play in four of five games, his first game action back since he tore his ACL against Denver in November.
* Augusta State center Garrett Siler is an interesting prospect who you could see at least in training camp come Ocotber.
* Bobby Brown’s dwindling playing time as the week wore on suggests he won’t be on the roster by opening night, either by being packaged in some kind of trade or simply have the year remaining on his contract bought out.
104 Responses to "Goodbye Vegas, hello Espana"
A couple of different sources are reporting that Flynn won some kind of summer league award, like summer league ROY or something (but not MVP). Any word on that?
Game highlights:
LOL, listen to the beginning of this interview where Doug Collins talks about guys getting out of the way instead of being dunked on…
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/blog/70561/index.html
…and then watch the Bulls player closest to the basket on the highlights when Flynn sets up for his windmill dunk. A case of Rosariosis, perhaps? 
Jerry, the better question: Now that Mr. Dingus has guaranteed that “Rubio will be the starter the minute he walks into Target Center,” and presuming Rubio walks into Target Center before this season, where does that place Jonny and Bassy?
I think we’d better keep Bassie around. He needs to be the starter while the young guys learn and also to teach them the ropes. The transition to the NBA game is pretty tough by the looks of it, and Bassie has had enough years and experience to really help this team. I like him much more than Brown. I also think that we need to keep a few support players around like Smith and Gomes. I love watching the two of them play and they are dual position players, especially Smith. He actually did a better job on Yao last year than Love did.
Give Corey time. Coming off an injury is tough. OK, Summer league is over. Big leagues to start… let’s see how this all transfers over. Remember, Foye was MVP of Summer League.
seenenough, so what does that do to Dingus’ promise to Rubio that “he will be the starter the minute he walks into Target Center” (end quote)?
Garrett Siler looks like he has some potential.
I think it blows Kahn’s promise, however, the fans will be booing the poor kid if he’s in over his head night after night. How do you build confidence that way? Even good rookies take some time to get used to the experienced, savvy NBA guards.
In the meantime, the crowd at Target Center will be getting frustrated if they see continued blow-outs. One sure way to ruin a kid is to warp his confidence.
According to this report from the NY Daily News the Wolves coaching hunt is down to two. Mark Jackson or Elston Turner.(It’s on the right side of the article)
How they would know what’s going on in David Kahn’s head is beyond me.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/2009/07/18/2009-07-18_david_stern_speaks_out.html
McFly — I don’t think Kahn’s promise is an issue at all. And who cares about what Sebastian Telfair thinks about the whole thing? He’s had five years to establish himself as a player in this league, and has only proven he’s an above-average backup PG.
Rubio can get the honor of starting and still have his minutes managed as needed. Flynn will get big minutes at both positions, and Bassy will get minutes based on matchups, injuries, or other situations.
Maybe, as your post suggests, Rubio has not earned the honor. However, given the negotiation taking place and the fact he’s been a professional player for a while, it doesn’t strike me as outrageous.
I’m sure Kahn has leaked his coaching choices to a few people. Also, many of the coaches have agents and agents are known to talk.
I think Telfair is extremely important to this team. He knows the guys, knows their tendencies, and will be able to play effectively from day one. He might only end up as a 2nd-3rd option, but will start the season in a bigger role.
I think you guys underestimate the jump to the pros. Love struggled with the transition last year- too many plays and couldn’t keep them all straight. And he has a pretty high IQ.
Zunoman- I believe that Rubio hasn’t earned a darn thing. It’s important to earn your minutes- also important for other teammates to SEE you earn your minutes to keep the locker room in order.
It’s up to the coaching staff to ensure that said transition goes well and to keep the locker room in order. Guys like Rubio and Flynn are the future of the team and should be on the floor. If some people can’t handle that, that’s their problem. The only guy on this team who has any minimal right to complain about such things would be Al Jefferson.
And, frankly, I don’t buy the notion that Rubio is going to be this lost little puppy when he comes over here. Are there going to be struggles? Sure, just like any rookie. But I fully expect him to be able to play 25+ minutes a night.
Sean
Have you ever played pro sports? The locker room is half the battle. I’ve heard horror stories of even ONE guy who causes so many problems that the whole team suffers. The coaching staff has some control but actually, a good leader in the locker room is more influential than you might expect.
Rubio might get 25 minutes. Would Flynn then get the other 23? Is that realistic? Two rookies leading the team? And what if one sprains an ankle?
I still believe that Telfair is more valuable than anyone thinks. My opinion.
I’m surprised that some soft drink company and shoe company hasn’t signed Rubio to deals so he could pay his buyout. He is getting so much publicity over here already plus they could market him in Spain as he is still big there
[…] to Hoopshype.com and The Star Tribune, PG Bobby Brown of the Minnesota Timberwolves will either be bought out or traded before the season […]
It’s pretty obvious…. Rubio gets 25-30 minutes a game at PG, Flynn gets the remainder as well as, say, 18 minutes at SG. Problem solved. Telfair’s not even an above-average PG by any statistical or subjective measure and he’s neither in our long-term plans or really much of a leader (five years in, bounces from team to team, never a legit starter) — I don’t think he has a ton to teach the young guys. Put them in and let them learn on the job… we’re not going to be any good this year anyway, so let’s play the young guys as much as we can!
seen — Sure, I understand the locker room can be a problem. And leadership is an issue. The thing is, though, the two guys in this organization who have the greatest potential to be leaders are the two rookies — Rubio and Flynn. These are guys who have done it.
If Rubio is completely lost on the floor, then you can change course. But I see nothing wrong at all with putting him in the starting lineup and letting him give it a shot. I’m not going to manage Flynn and Rubio based on making Telfair happy. That’s completely backwards.
Guyz, time to take the rose colored glasses off. Dingus promised the world that Rubio was the starter the minute he walks into Target Center.
I hope for Dingus’ sake that Rubio stays in Spain for the season, but a promise is a promise. You can bet it will be played over and over again by Fegan and others should Rubio play this season.
So, you’ve got the guy who was the starter the second half of last season, Bassy. You’ve got the quickly emerging star in Flynn. And, you have the guy who Dingus promised the starting position to, Rubio.
And, then you have the soon to be named coach who may have an opinion of his own.
Sorry to say, none of our opinions will matter much as to the roles each PG will play. But it will be interesting…
Marty,
Would you start Telfair over either of these guys just because he was the starter? Heck no. So you start Rubio and Flynn and run, run, run. Works out fine.
Wish Joe C would be half as cynical about Twins management as Jerry Z seems to be getting. Amazingly he seems to be giving more heat to Kahn than he did the previous regime….And when did the name “Bassie” emerge? Suddenly started hearing it mid-season, had never before
Kilrathi, I’m not taking a position as to who should start or not, simply pointing out the dilemma.
But in fairness to Bassy, we are evaluating his performance against NBA caliber competition. Whereas, neither Flynn nor Ricky have played a tick in the league.
Sure, but I don’t think it’s much of a dilemma. It’s obvious Telfair’s not a starting point guard in the NBA and I don’t think anyone would argue he is. Only possible reason to start him is to give us some stability there at the start of the season, but when you have two young players who might be stars, you start them, period. Telfair’s not going to make noise about it — he’s on, what, his fourth or fifth team and has to know he’s lucky to still be in the league. Let him be happy as the backup or find a new job, and get out young guys out on the floor and let them start meshing with each other and Al/Love.
Well, yea, there is a dilemma. Perhaps it will become more apparent to you as it plays out.
All three expect to be the starting PG and one has received unconditional assurance by Dingus that he will be.
Again, in fairness to Bassy, we are comparing his performance playing in the NBA; whereas, Rubio and Flynn have not played in the NBA. What? You don’t think that having played in the NBA matters?
OK, now we’re down to 2 coaches. How long does it take to decide between 2 guys? How many interviews before you can determine which one is the “right” guy? You guys keep saying that Kahn is taking his time because he’s careful and intelligent. I’m starting to think that he can’t find anyone who wants to coach this team. The 2 guys left have NO experience at head coaching, a sure disaster for a young, developing team. Someone had better have experience or you’ve got the blind leading the blind.
I’ve been gone for a while… a couple of responses from the last few threads:
1. TRIEBARK - I agree with you that Etan Thomas could be a guy we move at the deadline. He’s expiring and does something that all playoff teams need - he defends the center position.
2. SEENENOUGH - I don’t think Kahn’s deliberate pace at finding a coach suggests that it’s been “hard” to find a coach. It’s Kahn’s style to be slow and deliberate and, from the get-go, his stated plan was that he’s going to interview 12-15 candidates. If you want to disagree with his approach, that’s fine. But it’s simply innaccurate to say that he’s had a “hard” time finding a coach because it seems pretty clear that he’s just executing his game-plan. Even if Kahn isn’t seriously interested in the 12-15 candidates he’s supposedly interviewing, I agree with the notion that there’s big value to The Wolves in taking the opportunity to talk to as many people as possible - it’s helpful to know opponent’s philosophies, develop relationships with other NBA people and refine his pulse of the league. I don’t see how anybody could seriously advocate the need to rush into a coaching hire. What’s the benefit of that?
3. DOCENZO/JERRY - I think Garrett Siler is as perfect a fit as you can get for a D-League position. He’s got some great tools, but is very inexperienced and undeveloped. I’m not sure what the league minimum salary is for an undrafted rookie, but I would advocate signing him to a 1-year deal with a team option, bring him to training camp and having him play the entire season in the D-League. No risk at all. But if he develops, you may have a nice NBA back-up center on your hands.
SPORTSJUNKIE - Kevin Love is a great fit, actually, for an up-tempo game. How does the transition game begin? Oftentimes, by grabbing a rebound and dishing a nice outlet pass. Love is already one of the best in The NBA at rebounding and (call the skill over-rated if you will) outlet-passing. I also think he’ll be a nice trailing option for an open jumper in the event that you can’t finish at the rim. Just because you’re not the one filling the wing and slashing to the hole doesn’t mean you can’t play in an up-tempo game.
McFLY - You’re right that we need to hold off on judging Brewer. I like Brewer for the way he could potentially fit with The Wolves long-term, but I’ll be the first to admit that he’s had a very inconsistent run so far. So I personally don’t really KNOW what we’ve got in Brewer. But the fact is that he’s only played 94 NBA games so far. I think he needs two consecutive years of playing before we can put the nail in his coffin. I know we all want more instant gratification than this, but I don’t really feel like anybody will KNOW what type of player he’ll be until after this year AND next year. At that point, he’ll have had three full years in the league. Like it or not, he’s under contract this year and has a team option for $3.7M for 2010-2011, which will almost definitely be picked up… if for nothing else than to continue to protect the draft-pick investment we made in him. If he hasn’t proven he can play by then, I don’t think The Wolves will pick up his qualifying offer of $4.9M. And after two more full seasons, I won’t be shedding any tears if he’s gone. But I want to give him the next two years to know for sure. Like it or not, the ACL injury has given him a cushion.
Since when is it a bad thing to have a great, experienced back up guard on your bench.? You guys sell out Bassie like he’s worthless. He’ll come to the forefront very quickly as the inexperience of the other two become apparent, at least for a while.
Regarding Bassy - I really like him. But unlike a lot of the Black-and-Whiters out there, I like Bassy only when you consider him against an appropriate back-drop. IE:
1. I really like Bassy AS A BACK-UP PG.
2. I really like Brewer’s potential AS A DEFENSIVE STOPPER a la Bruce Bowen.
3. I really like Randy Foye AS A 6TH MAN.
4. I really like Rodney Carney and Bobby Brown AS 3RD STRINGERS.
So just because somebody is a big fan of Sebastian Telfair doesn’t mean that person think Telfair is the second-coming of Bob Cousy. There can be some middle-ground on these topics.
Foo-
Agree on Love, agree on Brewer. Give him time. I disagree entirely on the coach. The timing just doesn’t make sense. Also, interviewing people you have no interest in is a waste of your time and theirs. You learn little from someone who you’ve already determined doesn’t have the competency you are looking for. After all this “searching” we’re now looking at Turner or Jackson, both with ZERO experience? It’s a joke.
No one called him the “second coming”. We called him “experienced.” Big difference, Foo.
Foo, one caveat on Brewer. It takes 18-months for someone coming off an ACL surgery to perform at pre-injury level. A few never do. So, in judging Corey, it’s best to reserve judgment for most of this season. Same with Al Jefferson.
Foo, the Wolves are not going to keep Bobby Brown. Potentially 4 PGs? No way.
Did Dingus make an error in unconditionally naming Rubio the starting PG?
The only guys who you name as Starters are those who have proven themselves. I would safely say that Big Al is a starter. Most of the other positions are up in the air until training camp. How much will a new coach like being told who his “starters” are?
foo drops the hammer…..
telfair probobly isn’t right for this team though…..I personally would prefer more of a veteran pressense as the back up pg……some one like bobby jackson, Dooling, or anthony carter….
if there is a vet with starting experience available, we should go after him, if nothing else, for the teaching aspect……
I still think we need to pry fernandez from portland……perfect fit for what we are going to do….and a buddy for rubio…
the question is, who would we have to give up to grab him!
that was supposed to be a question mark…..
seenenough - your take is clear and we’ll just disagree on what the best philosophy should be in seeking a new coach. So you don’t like Kahn’s approach, which is fine. But it simply cannot be argued that Kahn is just executing his game-plan. I like that he is deliberate and that he sets his game-plan and executes it with very little regard to outside pressures.
But where I REALLY disagree with you the most is regarding the potential ROI from interviewing candidates you’ve already determined, as you state, don’t “have the competency you are looking for.” So what if somebody you interview isn’t one of your serious candidates. Here are a few thoughts I’d like you to consider:
1. What if that candidate becomes “the next big-thing” coaching candidate 2-3 years from now? If so, you’ve already got some direction on the next coaching search, which according to NBA history is very possible 2-3 years from now.
2. What if that candidate transitions from the bench to somebody’s front office, as has happened several times before? If so, now you’ve built another bridge to another NBA executive.
3. What if that candidate divulges something about his coaching philosophy or current employer? If so, I think both of those things are nice pieces of information to have.
4. What if your President of Basketball Operations has been out of The NBA for 3-4 years like Kahn? If so, this coaching-interview process will go a long ways for Kahn to re-establish some relationships that maybe he’s lost in the past 3-4 years.
There’s really no positive to rushing this; and there’s really no negative to talking to as many “candidates” as possible.
No upside and no risk equals no rush IMO.
starters matter less that who finishes the game…..
so clearly that isn’t that big of a deal….
also when you have a player with a ceiling as high as rubio’s……you kind of have to start him…..it’s not like this team is vieing for a championship here….
Marty McFly - You said:
“Foo, the Wolves are not going to keep Bobby Brown. Potentially 4 PGs? No way.”
I completely agree. It shouldn’t happen unless we trade one of our top-3 PGs. That’s just a recycled take of mine that I’ve posted in the past in response to the common “I love Carney” or “I love Bobby Brown” takes on this board. My response has always been that Carney and Brown are fine players… as 3rd-stringers.
seen — Mark Madsen has experience. It doesn’t mean he should be playing, because he’s not that good. Rubio and Flynn have higher ceilings than Telfair, who has proven he is a backup PG in this league. They are the ones who should get priority in terms of playing time.
And again, I don’t buy the notion that Ricky Rubio is going to be completely overwhelmed by the NBA game. Tony Parker played nearly 30 minutes a night as a rookie, and Rubio is a more accomplished European player than Parker was. Tony Parker never played a single Euroleague game. Tony Parker never played in the Olympics before coming to the NBA. That doesn’t mean that Rubio is going to be better, but he has had better preparation for coming to the NBA than any comparable European player.
agreed with sean…..the guys been a pro for 4 years, that has to account for something…….
and certainly the league he was in has better talent than the ncaa for sure, so he is probobly more prepared than flynn is at this point…..it is all speculation at this point however, so we will see once the season starts.
Marty
Couldn’t Kahn calling Rubio the starting PG from day one be him posturing to get Rubio to come over? Is that atleast a possibility?
The best players will play the most minutes. I agree with whoever said it doesn’t matter who starts it matters who finishes.
A player like Brewer who runs the court well, is fearless, and able to convert on ally-oop passes is a valueable player to team up with Ricky Rubio.
jama, simple question: Was Dingus wrong to repeatedly unconditionally promise that Rubio would be the Wolves starting PG “the minute he walks into Target Center?”
marty…he isn’t…..
1: he is the player that has the highest ceiling at the point guard position on this team
2: Kahn has already stated that flynn and rubio will play together…..so clearly that is our starting back court barring a trade for fernandez or (insert name of shooting guard around league that is available…..)
3: being a starter, doesn’t mean he will get the most minutes/playing during crunch time….
4: if he does fail (which I doubt rubio will) clearly he can be benched……if a player can’t play, he won’t, no matter the talent, and most players (mainly the good ones) will work harder to regain that stature on the team…..
Why worry about whether Rubio starts, he is not going to be able to play much more than 20 min a game. He only plays now about that for only 20+ games a year, which is less than most college teams. I would be much more worried about him being able to survive the season if he even shows up.
also, I don’t get why there is so much of an uproar about drafting two point guards in a draft filled with great point guards…..
If anyone has spent any amount of time watching basketball (especially the t-wolves) you know how important the position is. every team needs two point guards (unless a different position runs the offense) that are really good…..even the great ones (paul/stockton/kidd) need good backups to keep the team running smoothly.
the years where the wolves were good all had one thing in common (aside from garnett)….the team not only had a really good starting point guard, but they had backups that could run the ship at a very capable level (jackson, Billups, Hudson (pre injurys/contract).
I’d rather have rubio/flynn as a point guard duo than rubio/telfair or flynn/telfair……and after watching jaric run the point for two horrible seasons, and foye/telfair run it last year…..quite frankly I am extatic for the new season….
It’s one thing to not start a lottery pick rookie on a team that is already competative, but on the Wolves?
If Rubio and/or Flynn start and take their knocks as they adjust to the NBA pace and style, what difference is it going to make? The Wolves don’t have any playoff aspirations at stake, or any realalistic goal of improving their win total from last year no matter who starts. So why not start the players you want to be the starters and stars so they have the most time on the floor to develop? Especially together?
There was a lot of pressure on Telfair in Portland as a 18 year old kid playing PG (possibly the toughest NBA position to transistion to) to be a star and leader on the team. Would Rubio face the same dilema as an 18 year old starter for the Wolves? Yes, but then he’s played for 4 years with men, not high schoolers before coming to the NBA. That should make a lot of difference, but nothing is certain.
reeves….it’s called conditioning…..nba teams put their players through some extensive conditioning regiments…..
and if he can only do 20-25 minutes a game….that is what flynn/telfair (or vet we trade for) combination is for…..
OK Foo, here’s my response:
1. If a coach becomes “the next best thing”….we won’t be able to afford him. Tayolor is known to be cheap.
2. If Kahn doesn’t hire the guy, whoever he is, and he transitions to front office, it may just be one more person who is ticked off at Kahn, not a friend.
3. So the coaching search is really a search to the “the goods” on people on other teams? Nice.
4. I agree Kahn could use the experience.
We need to also remember that while Kahn seems accepted so far in MN., he’s left a trail behind him of people who don’t agree that he’s the “next coming.” Maybe the more people he talks to, the more people see through him.
I just get a bad feeling when I hear, see, and read about this guy. His arrogance is apparent. Maybe that will turn out to be a good thing, but it rarely does. Sorry if that hurts anyone’s feelings.
seen — Because certainly there aren’t any successful arrogant people in sports?
Kahn should be judged based on his results, not his personality. The fact that Kahn is arrogant shouldn’t count against him any more than Kevin McHale’s folksiness gave him a longer leash.
Sean-
I don’t remember mentioning Mad Dog- ?? Sorry if I’m wrong. I’m also puzzled by your camparison of Rubio to Tony Parker. I believe that is a stretch at best. Let me see him in a T-Wolves uniform for a few weeks before we make him live up to that one.!!
Sean- Just a feeling on Kahn, that’s all. I noticed it in the first press conference and then thought maybe he was just nervous and trying to look like a BMOC. But since then, I’ve seen more of the same. I’ll admit that the article about his past shady dealings hasn’t helped my perception.
I also think it’s odd that he left his wife and kid behind in Portland and stated that this job is his first priority, meaning it’s more important than the kid. Who says that stuff? Nice to be dedicated, but that goes beyond.
seem enough…..that first point sucked….no offense…..
if a coach is that good, I’d hire him in a second……even if we can’t afford him later on……that is like the cavs not picking lebron because in 3 years he will be making the max……you wan’t coaches that will be worth that money….
agreed that kahn hasn’t done anything yet…..we need 2-3 years at least…if not more….before we throw the guy under the bus……
if he is bad gm…..and people see through his guise after talking with people….then I want him to talk to as many people as possible so that we can go through the firing quicker!
all that said, so far kahn has done a solid job so far, albeit a little unconventionaly.
k, let me help you with the fundamental question. Should Kahn be making such an unconditional promise to Rubio, given that: (1) Neither he nor Flynn have played one second in the NBA? (2) no coach has been named to determine how he will run the team. Remember, all 3 pgs (Rubio-Flynn-Bassy) believe that he should be the starting PG. So, was Dingus right to promise Rubio that he would be the starter?
Im not concerned that he left his fam behind. Lots of NBA execs dont live where they work. Its part of the transient nature of the job
All I’m pointing out in my Rubio-Parker comparison is that Rubio has done far more as European player than Parker did. He’s played against tougher competition for a longer period of time than Parker did. Rubio has the most high-level experience of any 18- or 19-year old European point guard that has entered the NBA. Based on what we’ve seen out of other comparable Euros that have entered the league, it seems unlikely to me that Rubio is going to be completely overwhelmed as a rookie.
More likely is that he’ll play 25+ minutes a night or so and have his ups and downs like any other rookie player.
the shady deelings/family leaving are concerns….I’d have to read more before passing judgement…..
marty…..rubio has the higher ceiling therefore he deserves to start……that doesn’t mean he can’t be dethroned later on…..
telfair will not/nor should he be the starter….the only reason he started last year was because the wolves had noone better….that didn’t make telfair good enough to start….we just didn’t have a starting point guard
as the team stands right now, rubio is our starting point…and flynn is the starting sg……certainly there is time to go before the season starts so that can change….but right now…..this is how it is
Marty — Kahn was not wrong to make that promise to Rubio.
Rubio has the second most talent of any player in the draft. He should be given the opportunity to come in and take the job.
the coach will run an uptempo game…..kahn has stated that…..he is looking for a coach that fits the mold of what he wants……..so he won’t hire a coach if he prefers a slow half court game.
Marty-Kahn was most likely wrong to make that promise.
I don’t believe Telfair will prove that he deserves to start over either of them based on what he’s shown over his career so far. I don’t expect him to have improved to a point where he’ll show in training camp and preseason that he’s significantly better that Flynn.
Although Flynn looked good in Summer League, he’ll still need to show what he’s got against the real NBA players. Telfair should be able to give him better competition in training camp than what he’s seen so far, but that’s about all I expect.
Rubio looks great in Highlights. That’s why they’re called highlights. He too will need to show what he can do against realy NBA players. Whether that be this year, next year or whenever.
All of them deserved the chance to prove they can be starting PG’s in the NBA. None of them have earned that yet. I like Rubio’s chances to win out based on the little I’ve read and seen, but I’m no expert or professional talent scout, so my opinion is just that - an opinion.
k, here’s the answer: Dingus was wrong to paint him and the eventual coach into a box by promising that Rubio would be the unconditional starting PG.
All the other excuses like, he and Flynn will be on the floor at the same time or he can only play 20 minutes a game are side shows. There can only be one PG on the floor at a given time.
Flynn is not nearly as effective without the rock in his hands.
As for eventual coaches, does anyone else wonder why other teams have avoided Mark Jackson like a skunk at a garden party in considering him for head coach?
I’d much rather see Flynn as starting PG with the taller Rubio as the SG. Only problem, Rubio is not known for being a good shooter (unlike Ellington).
Mark Jackson has never overwhelmed me with his intelligence in his commentating. He was a wonderful PG and on court leader during his career, but what has he done that shows he can be a good coach/teacher/mentor? Not all great players have the ability to pass along there skill and knowledge.
Marty, you’re the only one that remembers or cares what Kahn said about Rubio playing right away. Everyone close to the situation is worrying about the buyout rather than what he said about Rubio starting. Obviously, it will be the coaches decision. Everyone knows that; these people aren’t stupid.
Nobody - not Rubio, Fegan, Kahn, or the new coach - will give that comment any weight if he does indeed come to the NBA this season.
It is a very insignificant event that only you are trying - and failing - to make significant.
marty…does it matter at this point?
because it appears that is what we are getting…..
you make it seem as though flynn will never play point/will look like a lost child on the floor without the basket ball…….
flynn will play point as well, not as much as rubio more than likely, but will still play it…teams will see that youth in the backcourt and full court press a lot early on to test the young guys…..so why not have two guys who can bring the ball up court….
weither kahn said it or not, rubio should be the starting point guard, because as I have stated….he has the higher celing…..he has a chance to become a star….will he, who knows, but at least give it a try…..
flynn, more than likely has a ceiling of really good….again…who knows…..none of us.
I haven’t seen much to say whether Rubio is a good or bad shooter. I think the knock on that part of his game is lack of information. As a pass first PG he did a lot more to set up his teamates that to look for his own shot. That doesn’t automatically mean he can’t shoot. There were some scenes in the video link I posted last thread that show him shooting with good range, and his mechanics looked alright to me. I’ll take that as a positive.
The bigger question IMO would be keeping both players happy by letting then do what they like in running the offense and playing “their” games.
rubio can guard the shooting guard and probobly will, but will play the point on offense…..you do realize that they can do that right?
rubio is more of a true point guard, and flynn does play closer to shooting guard than rubio (offensively)
still, we really won’t know if it works unless we try it…..and as I have stated before, is the worst case senario is we have two good players for the point guard position…..and I have no issues with that at all…..
40 minutes a game……by the end of the season, about 23 of those will be rubio running the show, and about 14 will be flynn running the show…..the rest will be telfair/ or vet picked up later……that doesn’t mean they won’t be on the floor at the same time…..it just means they will running the offense……
Marty, here’s the answer: the second Rubio puts on a Wolves jersey, he’s the face of the franchise. Do you see a lot of ad campaigns being build around Telfair because he’s the best PG coming out of training camp? Like it or not, Rubio’s going to get his shot.
they will probobly both play about 29-32 minutes a game…..
Marty, a question? Would you like to see Rubio in a Wolves uniform this season? Follow up, do you think having Rubio in a Wolves jersey this year provides a couple benefits for the Wolves?
If you answered yes to either, then it should make sense to you that Kahn has stated that Rubio will be the starting PG. Getting Rubio to the NBA has most to do with money. Naming Rubio as the starter is the first step in marketing Rubio and the Wolves. That move will help Rubio’s agent to line up advertising deals for Rubio to help raise money to cover that buyout. That promise will help sell tickets, and get more Wolves coverage on the national stage.
Making Rubio the starter doesn’t mean much more than he gets his name announced, he runs on court, and he’s in the game when the ball is tipped. Kahn also hasn’t promised that Rubio is the starter “all season long” either.
As for the coaching search, seriously people! Kahn just spent a week talking to just about all of primary candidates, and other people of interest, because most all of them were in Vegas this week. That makes perfect sense. The Summer league just broke, and now Kahn will do second interviews. If we go a month and no one is hired, then there should be some serious questions. As it is, there have been a fair number of other things that Kahn has had to do first.
Oh, and the philosophy on why you talk to a bunch of people when you are looking to making a coaching hire, especially a first NBA-level hire for the GM, and a hire for a team that is in a transition with extremely young players, is that you have to get a very good idea about the guy(s) that you want. You might have 3 guys in mind, but you talk to others so that you can actively compare and contrast. You hear some ideas, visions, and game concepts from a bunch of guys, and then you are in a better position to make a decision on the 2 or 3 guys that you really like.
Anybody think that maybe Kahn was misundersrood with his Rubio as the starter comment? When he said that, he could have meant that he was number one on the depth chart as soon as he walks into Target Center, but like everyone else, Rubio will have to earn the right to hold that starter title throughout the season. Thats how I would have meant that. But saying that assures Ricky that he will not be benched because of the Flynn pick.
Jonny Flynn named NBA Rookie of the Month:
http://www.niagara-gazette.com/sports/local_story_200230630.html
Jake the Wall, I’m more indifferent to Rubio going to the Wolves this season than most of you. There are advantages either way.
Why should Rubio be the de facto “face of the franchise?” First off, I hate the notion of designating a player as the face of the franchise. It was a mistake we made with KG but at least he had earned the title.
And, why should any player be given the designation as the de facto starting point guard? I think Dingus was being defensive about picking too many point guards (a contention I personally don’t believe in) and as a response to Rubio’s family and his agent, Fegan. No body should be crowned starting PG without first earning it.
As for the coaching search, the only one named with any credibility is Kurt Rambus.
argonbeast0034, how can your realistically suggest playing time allocations without either Flynn or Rubio playing a tick of NBA basketball?
Fair enough, Marty. I think it is primarily good business for the Wolves to get Rubio on the team this year. Sadly, the team is going to be bad either way. Oh, and I don’t really believe that Bassy is long for MN, especially if Rubio does come over.
I think Rubio will be the face of the franchise because of the highlight reel that the marketing department can put together on him. They still need to sell tickets, after all.
That said, I don’t think Kahn was thinking about the statement as much as we are. I suspect his only goal was to deflate any tension that the Flynn pick may have caused (if there ever was any). I’ll be surprised if he holds the coach to it.
Marty — don’t you have to project how your rookies are going to play in order to build a roster? You advocated getting rid of Bobby Brown. That indicates even you must think that Flynn and Rubio are capable of playing some amount of time (unless you are defaulting Telfair in for 48 minutes).
Jake The Wall - nice post. Simply put, there is ZERO downside to talking to as many folks as possible and there is nothing that we’re losing right now by not having a head coach in place.
“Face of the franchise” doesn’t necessarily mean he’s the team’s best player.
To me, Ricky Rubio is the most fascinating and most talked-about Timberwolves player on a national scale and it’s not even close. To me, he’s the face of the franchise.
Here’s my middle-ground view: I agree that Kahn is probably getting something out of interviewing a big field of candidates. But to say that we’re “losing nothing right now by not having a head coach in place” seems like a stretch. Right now, a coach could be looking at tape of our players, planning how the pieces fit together, etc. Granted, we’re a ways away from training camp, but Kahn should get this thing done sooner rather than later.
The TrueHoop summary of Summer League indicates that it’s not just bloggers and sportswriters that have a problem with the length of the search:
“What is going on with Minnesota? That was a popular topic of conversation among senior NBA people in Las Vegas. The team still has no coach. Though it had one of the Summer League’s most prolific players in Flynn, there’s no telling if the system he played in over the 10 days will be the one installed by a new coach — whoever that might be. This makes the Summer League evaluation process a lot less useful. Who’s in charge? CEO Rob Moor? General manager David Kahn? Will the new coach be fully empowered to do his job?”
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-42-99/The-Eight-Biggest-Stories-of-Summer-League.html
I wouldn’t count out Telfair making a strong push at remaining a rotation-player, if not the starter. Any coach who wants to keep his job knows he needs to win 30 games, even on a rebuilding team. And the coach will play the guys who he thinks will help him.
If it’s Mark Jackson, you’ve got a guy who played summer pickup with Bassy since he was 15 and always been a fan. I doubt anybody would take a job with a mandate to keep a 24-year-old, who’s working hard and playing well, on the bench b/c of an ad campaign.
Bassy is still plenty young and under contract for two more seasons. If he picks up where he left off last season, you don’t just throw him onto the scrap heap. At least you’d want to allow him to build trade value if that’s the direction and to stay sharp should he need to take on the lion’s share of the PG minutes as he’s had to do for two straight seasons, despite best laid plans.
Summer league, NCAA ball and the Spanish League are not comparable to the NBA. Bassy averaged 11 dimes in the summer league and was an all-star multiple times and Foye was an MVP.
Jonny Flynn got what he wanted against d-league competition. Let’s see what happens against centers and power forwards who actually anticipate correctly and rotate at the right time and when he has to run a real pro offense. In Vegas, Flynn benefited from spacing that won’t be there and he still turned the ball over more than once for every assist. That’s not acceptable when the real games begin and you’re running the offense through the low-post.
I don’t get why anyone thinks Kahn is arrogant. His television persona is quite the opposite. In fact, he comes across as soft, someone who could be taken advantage of. Reminds me a little of the previous GM, frankly.
Q-Rich for Bassy, Smith, and Mad-Dog sounds like it’s done. Expiring Q-Rich, can play the 2 or 3 when he’s not icing his back, and unload a couple of guys. Now we’re getting somewhere. Welcome, Ricky!
Madison - I don’t think not having a coach is ideal or anything. I’m just saying that I’d rather get it right. If Kahn is convinced that he needs to talk to a lot of folks and take it slow, then I don’t think he should panic and scrap that game-plan just to have his guy in place to watch game-tape and weigh in on five measily summer-league games.
Again, yes, I’d IDEALLY like to have had a coach months ago. But under the circumstances, I see no reason to get panicky about this.
I’m mostly impressed that Kahn is doing this his way. The Wolves need a strong leader with a conviction to carry out his plan, regardless of outside influence. I willy-nilly, easily-swayed executive is the last thing we need. And, to date, I’ve agreed with every decision Kahn has made. So I’m in no position to second-guess the way he’s selecting a head coach. Would the rube in me like to see a hire ASAP? Yes, no doubt. But I’m mostly concerned that Kahn gets it right.
BREAKING NEWS…?
Rumor has it we’ve traded Telfair, Smith and Madsen to the Clippers for Quentin Richardson…
I just heard the same report on KFAN!
Quentin Richardson (yawn, for his own merits) in for Telfair, Craig Smith and Madsen is a great deal for The Wolves.
Salary-cap wise, we save $2.7M off the the 2010-2011 salary cap from Telfair’s player option. Everybody else has expiring contracts.
Rumor from Yahoo Sports… Mad Dog, Telfair & Smith to Clips for Q Richardson!!!
Well, it gives us a legit veteran shooting guard, so that’s a plus. And we didn’t give up and huge trade assets either.
Still, how much will QRich really help us? Can he even stay healthy?
Aaaah, guess I didn’t refresh soon enough… I think this is a good move. Q is better than anything we have right now. I bet he would run the floor well with Jonny and Ricky!
Seems to me that such a deal indicates the Wolves are feeling much more confident about Rubio being available this year. It will also clear an additional $2.7 million in cap room for next offseason and helps to balance the roster. Richardson has struggled in recent years with his shooting, but should fit in well with an up-tempo pace.
Boy talk about cleaning house… wow! How many people do we have left under contract lol
He also clears out two “deadweight” forwards. Helps clear room for Pekerov and maybe Rob Kurz or Siler. So that’s another benefit.
Anybody concerned with how Q-Rich will fit in with The Wolves basketball-wise is missing the point. He’s an over-paid, expiring contract who nets us two open roster spots and saves us $2.7M on the 2010-2011 salary cap and clears the way for Rubio/Flynn to battle it out with Telfair out of the picture.
The only thing this does for The Wolves on the court is balance out the roster so that our future foundations (Flynn, Rubio, Love, Al, Jefferson, Ellington) can play on a team that is organized like an actual NBA team.
KFAN reports Joventut just signed another PG to a 2-year contract.
Is no one else going to miss Craig Smith? Not to say it’s a bad trade, but I liked the guy.
new thread…
I like Smith, but with both Love and Jefferson, he was completely redundant. We come out ahead by using that roster spot on a shooting big man or defender like Pekerov or Kurz.
Love the trade for all the reasons Foo mentioned! I liked Smith, but he was way too short for the 4. His defense was a liability. Khan knows we need to get taller. Getting rid of Madsen was about 6 years too late. He’s been a waste of payroll since day one, and another of the many mistakes of the previous regime. Khan has already stated we’ve only just begun to remake this team, and it will look much different by 2010-2011. I think Khan is doing a wonderful job so far, and I look forward to TWolf news everyday. BTW, Ricky will play this year and he will start, and I couldn’t be happier.
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