Celtics escape with 92-90 victory at Target Center
Posted on November 5th, 2009 – 7:08 AMBy Jerry Zgoda
I thought I was joking when I tweeted before Wednesday night’s game, playfully mocking the night’s matchup that pitted Oleksiy Pecherov against Kevin Garnett.
Shows you what I know.
Two days after the Wolves declined to pick up his $2.3 million contract extension for 2010-11, Pecherov delivered the performance of a young career with a 24-point night that lapped KG’s mere 12 (although he did have 11 rebounds to Pech’s 8).
It wasn’t enough to keep the Celtics from overcoming a 10-point third quarter deficit with a fourth quarter in which the Wolves scored just twice in the final five minutes and starters Al Jefferson, Jonny Flynn and Ryan Gomes all went scoreless.
Garnett, of course, ultimately provided the winning play, tying up Corey Brewer for a jump call called by referee David Jones with 3.6 seconds left as Brewer drove toward the tying hoop.
Rajon Rondo knocked the jump-ball tap back over halfcourt and out of bounds, but only nine-tenths of a second remained and all the Wolves could get from there was Jefferson’s desperation three-point heave at the buzzer that was partially blocked.
Afterward, the normally mild mannered Brewer stood at midcourt and stared down Jones because he, his teammates and the Target Center announced near-sellout crowd that wasn’t wearing green No. 5 Garnett jersey were screaming for a foul call.
They never got it.
In the locker room, Flynn suggested he knows first hand about the league’s star treatment, although he did say one call does not win or lose a game.
The Wolves had their chances, with Pecherov and Brewer each trying to carry them down the stretch with efforts that were both bold and out of control. In an attempt to win, they each made decisions that Kurt Rambis later said caused him to bite his lip.
Btw, they call it shooting guard for a reason, don’t they?
Brewer shot the ball 16 times against the Celtics, one time fewer than Jefferson.
On Monday in L.A., he shot it 21 times, five more than Jefferson. On Sunday in Phoenix, he shot it 18 times.
That’s 55 times in three games.
He made 20 of them. That’s 36.3 percent, pretty close to his career shooting average.
Before the game, somebody asked Wolves coach Kurt Rambis if he likes Brewer shooting that much and if those shots are good shots.
“Most of them, yeah,” Rambis said. “Sometimes, I disagrees with the shots. But I don’t want to take away his aggressive nature.”
The Wolves now have lost four straight after winning their season opener against New Jersey. They’ll practice today at Target Center and play Milwaukee at home on Friday night.
One last thing: Kevin Love got his stitches out of his hand during halftime and remains hopeful an xray two weeks from Friday will show his surgically repaired hand has healed enough for him to start practicing again.
That would be well ahead of schedule. He was expected to miss six to eight weeks when he broke that left hand Oct. 16 in Chicago.
187 Responses to "Celtics escape with 92-90 victory at Target Center"
I like Rambis’s approach with Brewer and all the players, generally. He’s patient enough to take the long view of player development, but he’s also willing to use playing time in the short term as a motivator.
Fun game; would have been a great win. Looking forward to beating the Bucks Friday night.
Jennings vs Flynn will be a fun matchup to watch as well as how Sessions handles going back.
[…] On the Wolves » Blog Archive » Celtics escape with 92-90 victory at Target Center blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/wolves/2009/11/05/celtics-escape-with-92-90-victory-at-target-center – view page – cached I thought I was joking when I tweeted before Wednesday night’s game, playfully mocking the night’s matchup that pitted Oleksiy Pecherov against Kevin Garnett. […]
Expected a blowout for Boston but Wolves hung in there….sort of amazing when you think about it. They are hungry and they are getting stronger despite losses. The future looks very good w/ Love soon back, but more importantly, the nuggets from upcoming drafts.
kg the hack my goodness he never got those calls when he was here he was a hack machine last night and the refs let him do it pathetic!! the last call for a jump ball was clearly a reach he grabbed brewer’s arm and the way he hacked pech all night distgusting he should have been out most of the game in foul trouble what a bunch of fooey i forget how inconsistent the calls are in the nba at the beginning of the year but this was a clear reminder bunch of poo.
What a difference between Rambis and Whittman, we have a very good staff, finally!
I hope Brewer can get his shot on track and play more controlled, if he can, he will be a star.
Pech looked really good out there… hope we don’t regreat picking up his option in the future…
That was the first time this year that I’ve seen Brewer really force some shots. Shooting when he’s wide open is one thing but trying to take his guy off the dribble and shoot over him is another.
On a side note it should suprise nobody that Mike Miller is injured already. I don’t know if it was gritty or stupid but he was trying to play with what looked like a seperated shoulder last night.
Until Brewer starts hitting any shots he’ll continue to get the open looks, kinda like Jefferson and his fake. No ones biting for his fake either until he also starts hitting. Last night Jefferson looked like the Beast of old…he kinda had something to prove to his old mates…..
Too bad for Wolf pups last night. They played & shot well enough to win. Pechy was on fire. He looks like he’s 40 years old with that scraggly beard. Brew will make his share of open looks in time. Still don’t like triangle for this team. Jump shooting O with not good jump shooters.
Gotta love Pech’s emotion. I’ll take a 7 foot russian jump shooter that gets fired up and always looks hungover any day….
Does anyone else think Brewer might be playing too many minutes? I know he is young, but he is coming off a knee injury. Plus he is so thin, is he going to get worn out playing that many minutes all season?
Brew is a high motor guy. Believe it or not, they play better the more they play cause when they start to tire they slow down to a more normal speed. It’s the low motor guys who are thin like T-Mac who with too many minutes burn out. Brew has to straight line drive to hoop or take 17 ft wide open jumpshot. No whirling dervish stuff off dribble or contested shots.
Analysis of the Wolves’ loss to Boston, Oleksiy Pecherov’s big night, why I can cheer against KG now, and more:
http://mnhowl.wordpress.com/2009/11/05/yup-i-can-cheer-against-kg-now/
It’s really precious watching people turn on KG. He’s doing nothing different now than he ever did before. If it bothers you now, it says more about you than it does him.
sean
you may be right, but watching KG he seems to have developed an attitude about him. maybe he had that here, but he seems to have let it out more in Boston. he also seems to have lost a step here and there in his game, and he’s making up for it in his ‘dirtier’ play, or however you want to call it. he did do quite a bit of hacking last night, and brewer was clearly fouled at the end there.
KG got his hand on the ball, but he was still reaching around and there’s no way there wasn’t arm to arm or body contact that should have been called a foul.
They say star players get calls in their favor, but I think it has more to do with the team they’re on. I don’t remember KG getting too many calls like that in his favor as a Wolf.
Although that non-call hurt, there were plenty of other chances before that for the Wolves to stay ahead and come out with a win. Just showing they have what it takes to hang with a top tier team is encouraging. It should only get better when a healthy K Love returns.
Now if only they could find someone to be a “maker” as either SG or SF. I like Gomes, but he’s too much a tweener at the forward spot. I still don’t see the Wolves signing a FA outright next summer, but a trade using their cap space seems very likely.
Rambis said Brewer never gets tired, which is pretty much what McHale said and Wittman said and Billy Donovan said. I wouldn’t worry about Corey wearing out.
His shooting is kind of a catch 22 though. Because the truth is they are good shots. He’s getting good looks, he’s hitting the gaps when he’s supposed to hit them and he’s shooting when the triangle says he’s supposed to shoot. He’s just….not a good shooter.
That’s why, the more I think about it, I like the idea of Rudy Gay on this team. Because he and Corey are very similar players…there’s small differences in their rebounding, passing, etc, but ultimately the payoff is that Rudy trades a portion of Corey’s defense for the ability to hit all the shots Corey keeps missing.
I mean, if you take the last three games and switch Corey with Rudy…
Bryan - how’s Rudy’s attitude and team mentality compare with Corey’s? I haven’t followed Memphis at all, I just wouldn’t want to try to upgrade the on court product at the cost of adding a locker room problem. Is that a concern with Gay at all?
Well, apparently Rudy and OJ Mayo have been feuding, but I’m not really concerned about that
A) because Rudy doesn’t have a history of behavior problems
B) Mayo DOES have a history of behavior problems
C) it’s Memphis. I’d be unhappy playing for that team too
The bigger question about Gay is his heart. He was kind of listless last season, and isn’t the defender his size and athleticism would make you think he’d be.
But so far this season, he’s been a lot more active, and he reportedly had a shockingly good showing for the Team USA select camp (rivaled Durant…) The guy’s talent level is through the roof, there’s no question he has the ability. And I’m positive Rambis is a much better teacher and coach than Ivaroni was or Hollins is.
Hopefully he’s not just playing better to garner interest to get a better contract/situation so he can settle back down. T-Mac has alway kind of struck me that way, let’s hope Rudy’s not like that if he ends up a Wolf.
Do you think Gay and Brewer could play together, or do you see Corey as expendable if Rudy’s brought in?
medschool — KG cussed extensively when here, he got in people’s faces when he was here, and he was exuberant in his post-game celebrations here. Nothing has changed, except for the uniform he is wearing and the ring on his finger.
I don’t think there’s anything “dirty” about the way Garnett plays defense, either. KG and the rest of the Celtics play tough and physical. Our Wolves would do well to emulate them.
KG can suck an egg. He ain’t on my team anymore.
well physicality is one thing, but hacking and reaching in is another. there were at least a couple times he had done that and gotten away with it. i would love the wolves to be a bit more physical like you say, but it is seemingly clear that the Celts have a one-up on that sort of thing, especially with the refs.
and KG always had a dirty mouth, not arguing with you on that. but i thnk its just the way he carries himself now. he still acts like he’s the most important player on his team even though he’s not quite frankly.
Who cares about KG ?!
Woooooooooooooooooooooooooves !
I definitely think they can play together. There’s a ton of appeal to starting two 6′9″ guys both with lock down defender potential on the wings. Corey has been pretty good as a shooting guard at all but the shooting part. Lots of assists, minimal turnovers.
I mean the theory here is basically that Gay would get the 15-20 shots Corey’s taking right now, while Corey concentrates on the intangibles game and only takes the 8-10 shots Ryan Gomes is taking.
Rudy Gay may have “lockdown defender potential”, but he’s come nowhere near achieving it thus far in his career. Adding Rudy to the squad would make this team better offensively, but it’s probably a wash defensively if he’s taking minutes from Gomes/Wilkins/Pavlovic.
Bryan, Does Mayo really have a history of behavior problems? That’s not ringing any bells for me.
brewer is and should be a 3 not a two he can guard a two but can’t shoot out side of 17feet. he is far and away our best defender though and i would like to keep him long term. big al is looking better offensively but needs to get better on D and start to rebound again. also kahn may regret not picking up pecherov’s deal he looked like he could play last night.
why is time stamp on east coast time tribune move?
Check his history in high school and USC. Reports are he was being paid to play in high school. He refused to give out his phone number to Tim Floyd, his college coach, saying “you don’t call me, I call you”. Then Floyd gets dismissed from USC right after Mayo’s drafted for “unethical practices”, which I can only assume means “bending the rules to cater to OJ’s ego”…we definitely know Floyd was paying OJ’s handlers, and OJ knew it.
Throw in a handful of marijuana charges, rumors of being paid off, etc…everywhere he goes, he’s followed by scandals, and his attitude constantly comes into question through them.
And hey, if it’s a wash defensively, then I’m fine with that. Just improving our offense as much as he would is reason enough for me.
But again, the difference between Rambis’ teaching ability and Memphis’ coach-of-the-week is night and day. Look at what Rambis has brought out in Brewer, Hollins, and even Jefferson in just three months.
This was one of the worst officiated games in recent history. Brewer got mobbed by KG on his drive to the rim and no call! Pech got clubbed on his cast arm at the rim and no and-1.
It isn’t the Jordan Rules. It’s the KG-LeBron-Kobe Rules and it stinks.
Complaints about Brewer’s poor shooting percentage is understandable, but the man kills on defense.
It’s not only steals but deflections, and his ability to invoke errand passes and shots. He is also a good passer and gives the Wolves someone who can actually slash to the rim with success. He is the run in “united we run,” in that he fills the lane in transition and can start the fastbreak.
Corey Brewer’s game reminds me of James Worthy’s “show time.”
I’m not against going after Gay but the problem is he isn’t very good at creating his own shot and I still think the Wolves are somewhat lacking that. Plus he is a poor 3 point shooter which the Wolves still need as well. On offense he really is basically Corey Brewer with a better shot and a little more hops.
Marty
Is it successful slashing to the rim if he misses the shot/layup?
Corey Brewer with a better shot is one hell of a player…
I’m talking just on offense, their defensive games are much different. Although Gay is a better rebounder in my opinion. By Brewer with a better jump shot I meant they both kind of slash and can’t shoot from behind the arc but seem to really like the medium range shot
starting to think the calls for Kevin martin aren’t so bad.
thing is, James Johnson would come in FA, probably cost about the same, and we wouldn’t have to trade away assets for him. he;s a bit older, but you get simmilar production.
Ya, but Gay hits like, 60% of those midrange jumpers.
I mean, if you give Rudy those 55 shots Corey’s taken the last 3 games, Gay’s gonna hit 50% of those shots, average 20ppg, and we probably win all three of those games.
And I disagree he can’t shoot from 3 or create his own shot. He’s a career 35% deep shooter, which is pretty decent, and he’s shooting 45% from three so far this year. And he was the go to guy for Memphis until OJ showed up.
Plus I mean, when he gets to the rim, he gets to the rim. Check out the highlights from last night’s Memphis/GSW game.
nothing wrong with any shot as long as you make it! just ask the Matrix..
Jama, Brewer’s problem is not around the rim on a slash.
His shooting problem is imbalance on his mid-range and parameter shots.
anyone know of big men this team can get to help shore up the middle? this team lacks a) size b) athletcisim and c) defensive + rebounding.
hollins is showing he can be a lot of those, but we were KILLED last night in offensive boards. in addition, everytime we meet a legit center he just runs us over. whose out there that’d be reasonable?
Well, Kevin Love will fix the rebounding problem when he returns.
Defense is going to be a big problem all year though. Not sure what we can do about that…
Is it possible that the Twolves 3rd point guard choice of the 2009 1st round will be the best?
I’m referring to Ty Lawson who is putting up big numbers for a very good Denver team.
Any discussion about players that totally disregards defense is a non-starter.
No Kevin Martin.
The Muse, how can you answer your question now? Let’s wait until Rubio is in the NBA before trying to answer your question.
Jonny Flynn will be better than Ty Lawson.
Ty just has the advantage of playing alongside Billups and Melo right now. The floors more open for him, he has more scorers to pass to, and he’s not trying to learn the triangle.
once he’s at NBA speed, Rubio would take Lawson behind the woodshed. and Flynn, once he has guys around him like Bryan said, would take both of them there. Flynn was the best PG on the floor most of the night - with Mr. 55 million opposite him.
Medschoolmatt, there is no one “out there” who can match up with the top centers in the NBA.
Pech and Hollins are not going to defend the rim on defense nor bang hard in the middle on offense. Their games are more finesse.
And, no, K-Love doesn’t solve the overriding problem in the middle of defending the rim and blocking shots. He does offer a nifty high-low game with Jefferson on offense, but I’m not sure it fits into the Rambis scheme.
The Wolves will need to draft Cole Aldrich to address the middle.
marty
I meant ‘out there’ as in outside the organization ie thru trade or FA. i suppose draft would be our best bet, if the right player is available and we get at least a couple picks.
Trade Kevin Love for Chris Bosh
wonder what it would take to get Gasol away from Memphis. that guy is amazing.
Remember all the complaints about Kahm drafting 3 point guards?
If you look at the ESPN rookie watch, 4 of the top 5 are point guards. And that doesn’t even consider Rubio.
Bryan
wouldn’t it be easier just to wait for him to hit the fA market? he might be had there.
Love for Bosh ? That solves nothing.
We can pay him more and get a 3 month head start on resigning him if we trade for him.
People do realize that Cole Aldrich is going to be a role player right? If the Wolves are drafting top 5, which looks less likely than before the season, there is no way Kahn takes Aldrich. He has stated many times that you need to take a difference maker with high upside that high in the lottery and Aldrich does not have a high ceiling at all.
Plus he’s just as unathletic as Al and Love…we need a big man that can run the floor.
Love for….Amare Stoudemire…?
No Amare !
medschool
Those Centers or big men that you are looking for are really hard to find. There’s a reason a guy like Erick Dampier gets $10 million per season. The real question is aren’t the Wolves going to have to either bring Love off the bench or trade either him or Jefferson to bring in one of those guys?
Do you want to pay to bring one of those guys in just to play 15 minutes per night? If the Wolves could get a really good big man I think bringing Love off the bench with Sessions and Brewer would be a great 8 man rotation.
Amare wouldn’t solve the defensive issues…he’s more of an open door than Al is.
I saw the new projection for the Salary Cap next year is going to be around $50 million. Down from $53 million this year. That is a good thing for the Wolves as less teams are going to have the money to go after the second tier free agents.
An early guess by me is that Rudy Gay ends up going to Miami.
Love off the bench is what i’d suspect. Al is starting to get this triangle, and his j-shot is starting to get to people (that fake n flush on Perkins was amazing). that big man brought in would be the starter in my book. al is a 4 against pretty much everyone.
if gay is in miami, how do they re-sign Wade as well?
and if the salary cap is at 50, what would the luxury tax threshold be? i get a feeling thats a number Kahn will be working with next year.
you have to think Memphis is going to eventually consider moving Gasol or Thabeet. Thabeet isn’t getting any minutes and the coach has basically said he won’t play him unless the other team’s center is that type of guy - meaning Gasol is their 5, and rightfully so. I wonder what it would take to get either.
You can go any amount over the cap to resign your own players. So as long as they sign Gay first, they can then sign Wade no matter what the salary cap is.
That’s why I suggested the other day that we trade for Gay now. Then we can sign both him and a big free agent this summer.
also, the complete ineptness of the Cavs GM is seen with their current salary number. they go and get Shaq whose a shadow of his former self, and on top of that are 10+ mill over the luxury tax threshold and arent’ even paying LeBrown a max deal
Jama, Cole Aldrich a role player? Well, that’s a new one. Based on what exactly?
1. The only Heat players under contract next year are Wade, Beasley, Chalmers, and Cook.
2. The Cavs have over $31 million coming off the books because of Shaq and Big Z. They aren’t going to be able to bring in another big time Free Agent but they can bring in a middle tier guy.
3. You can bring back your own players and go over the cap but you can’t sign another huge FA contract and go over. So no the Cavs couldn’t sign Wade and then sign LeBron afterwards.
Marty
What do you see Cole Aldrich as in the NBA? Is he going to be a go to guy like Duncan? A shut down defender like Mutumbo? A beast like Shaq? I would say 90% of big guys in the NBA are role players. The NBA is a Guards and Wings league at this time and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
Medschoolmatt, I took your “out there” just as you conveyed it. There is no “out there” there.
Based on the fact that his size, athleticism, mentality, and skillset are roughly equivalent to Andrew Bogut.
Or Brad Miller.
Or Nenad Krstic.
Or Marcin Gortat.
Or….
Bryan
You’re giving Aldrich to much credit. He shoots and passes nowhere near as well as Miller.
DX on Aldrich:
“Similarly to the way he played at the Adidas Nations Camp in Dallas last August, Aldrich again did very little to justify his status as a potential top-5 draft pick. It’s likely that he’s just not the type of player that stands out in these settings, as he seems to look very uncomfortable for the most part outside of Kansas’ system. Aldrich’s skill-level offensively looked very limited in the drills and five on five action, as he has average footwork and touch around the rim and appears pretty mechanical when trying to create his own shot. Defensively his terrific frame and freakish length allows him to be quite a factor when he puts his mind to it, but he often looked tentative and lethargic trying to make his presence felt.”
Jama
No one knows what the upside is for Cole. Alas, no one knows with any certitude what the upside is for any athlete.
But playing for the number 1 ranked school, Kansas, he has been doing it all.
His sophomore year he averaged 15 ppg, 11 rebounds, 2.7 blocked shots; you get the picture.
As for your notion of role player, hell, everyone is a role player if you want to carry it out to an extreme. Why stop at 90%?
Perhaps a more definitive indicator of a players universality is minutes played per game. The obvious reason is that if a player average a high count in minutes played, it indicates he is not a role player (or one to a lesser degree).
Cole averaged 30 mpg last season as a sophomore.
I really don’t see why Wolves fans are so high on Aldrich. There’s big men with a lot more skill, potential, and would fit better in the draft. Is it because he’s from Minnesota? Is it because no one watched any college game except the final four? I don’t get it.
I have the closest comparison for Aldrich.
Joel Pryzbilla
Although you could argue that Pryzbilla was more athletic when he came into the league.
Amen, Bryan. I’d take Aldrich at the right price, but if we passed on Turner at something like the fifth pick for Aldrich, I would not be happy. It’s going to be a deep draft for big men — we can get help there with a pick in the teens.
The Lynx just landed the #1 overall pick in the WNBA draft…
Jama, how could you possibly make such a ridiculous comparison between Cole and any veteran player in the NBA?
What was Brad Miller like (compared to Cole) when they are both sophomores in college?
Bryan, outstanding news for the Lynx!
Marty
Wait so everyone IN COLLEGE that plays 30 minutes or more per game and puts up average stats is going to be more than a role player in the NBA?
I never said he was a role player in college. I said he projects to a role player in the NBA.
Kris Humphries averaged 21 points and 10 rebounds per game at the U of MN. Where did that get him in the NBA?
Marty
Can I compare him to Kris Humphries when he was a Freshman in College? Why can’t I compare Aldrich’s style of play to other big men? That’s ludicrous.
Kris Humphries isn’t even a role player. Anytime you see him play now, it’s painfully clear he’s not an NBA player. Which is most visible in the fact he’s constantly being traded. No one wants him.
Mad Dan, we need a center not a “big men”. We have Jefferson and K-Love at PF. Jefferson is too small for the 5.
The logic of simply getting a “big man” is nonsensical. The team is not starving for big men, they are woefully deficient in a center who can defend the rim, block shots, and grab rebounds.
Aldrich is the best center in the draft, possible the best overall.
And a god awful fit for our team.
Bosh is better than Al or Love, but he wouldn’t want to come here or resign for that matter. We need to see how well (or not) they play together and then decide who should be traded or not traded. If we decide to trade Al or Love I would like to wait until the draft but if we did it in Feb. they could see what they need by the draft.
Jama, so it’s clear you now agree with me on the lunacy of comparing a present day veteran NBA player (Brad Miller) with a college sophomore. Congratulations!
Now, comparing stats between Humphrey as a freshman with Cole is also crazy. Why? Because, as a freshman playing on a Final Four caliber team like Kansas, Cole averaged 8 minutes per game. If memory serves, Kris Humphries played considerably more minutes on an unranked Gophers team.
Bosh is not better than Al.
Bryan- I happen to know Kris and William Humphries (his dad)a little and my Dad is close with William Humphries. Kris is actually having a really good year. An Indiana scout recently told his Dad that Kris has the skill set and body to be a good forward but his head and heart aren’t always into it. But he has looked good for Dallas this year. You can say where did that year at the U get him? It got him $15 million + and counting.
P.S. He is not a bad kid ( I say kid but he really isn’t that much younger than me, lol)
Is he the best center in the draft? Do you watch College Basketball? And as stated a horrible fit with the current Wolves team.
Why are we wasting so much time talking about a player the Wolves aren’t going to draft?
Bosh puts up same numbers but can hit the 3 and he plays better defense and he has led his team to the playoffs as the only good player on it. Al hasn’t yet.
We also need a wing, Marty. Turner>Aldrich.
yeah, I would like Turner over Aldrich
Marty
You just gave me Aldrich’s stats playing 30 minutes per game. Can’t you compare Humphries freshman season vs. Aldrich’s Sophmore season? Or do I need to find a Center who played 30 minutes his Sophmore year and got to the final four? If that’s the criteria you are looking for, you’re right, you win!
Cole Aldrich is a 7 foot version of Kevin Love. He doesn’t offer us anything we don’t already have, meaning he doesn’t solve any of our problems.
Better defense my eye…less blocks, gets pushed around a lot.
Bosh would be a much better fit with way the Wolves want to play than Jefferson but there is no chance of the Wolves getting him so that conversation might as well end.
He played big mins for Dallas last nite.
Quit with the trading Love talk also. It shows your lack of knowledge about the game.
the whole ‘Bosh not coming here’ is why I bring up my previous question - what big man can we get besides through the draft that would make a positive influence on this team?
I don’t get Wolves fans love of Kevin Love either. That seems to be a case of people looking purely at his statistics, and completely ignoring his deficiencies and how poor a fit he is with the team.
Bosh 1.2 Blocks per game for Career
Al 1.2 Blocks per game for Career
?
Swan where you getting your facts, lol
And blocks don’t mean better defense, Hollins will get blocks but not a good one on one defender yet. Bosh is the better overall shooter (range) quicker, faster and plays better team and one on one defense.
The difference between Bosh’s defense and Al’s defense is like the difference between Odom’s defense and Dampier’s defense.
Neither are fantastic. But at least one of them moves.
C - Note : Pretty sure I’m going with last year. Was Al not ahead of Bosh in blocks ? I’m more of a “what have you done for me lately” type guy than still trading on the “Bosh” name.
Al is also the better defensive rebounder if I’m not mistaken.
Bryan - Yeah a passing big man with cutters all around is totally not what the Wolves need. Love is completely a horrible fit for this squad. Bring back Kandi.
And I disagree that Bosh would never sign or resign with us.
First, we stand to show some serious promise this year.
Second, assuming he’d never ________ is McHale’s thinking. And apparently we’re mired in it.
Yet another reason to try and swing a deal for Gay now. Would win us more games and be a big piece in showing free agents we’re going somewhere.
The idiocy runs unabated on this thread:
(Bryan) Cole is K-Love at 7-ft? I don’t recall defending the rim and blocking shots as two of K-Love’s attributes in college or the NBA
(Jama) Yes, by all means, let’s compare Cole’s playing on a Final Four team and therefore more offensive threats to share the ball with compared to Humphries 3-13 conference record team.
I guess Love’s rebounding isn’t being missed at all.
Pretty early in the month for Bryan to be running low on his meds.
An undersized, unathletic non-defender is not what this team needs.
FYI Chris Bosh has as much passing potential as Love.
FYI part two Jefferson has already proven you don’t need to be a natural passing talent to thrive with ball movement in Rambis’ system.
can’t wait for Love to get back. his rebounding and outlet passing should help int he running game - its nonexistatn since the guards are helping out with defensie rebounding…
best center that might be available would be joel or haywood but to peoples point k love is a good player and in time could become a v good player/ borderline all star but in hind sight lopez next to big al is what should have happend. we still could have had memphis take lopez and do the same trade like we got for love. which is too bad. freddie Hoiberg was right about lopez!!!
Swan- Blocks don’t mean you play better defense, Toronto also had Bargnani getting 1.2 blocks so he was taking some blocks from Bosh, teams come inside a lot more on the Wolves because the poor defense of Al and Love, which means more opportunities. And Al only had 1.5 blocks a game in his last full season. A half block a game more does not make you a better defender when the other times they just score over you when Al misses the block or isn’t in the right position to contend.
Al has done better so far this year and I hope he becomes a better defender but Bosh is the more complete (offense and defense) player
Bryan -
FYI We don’t have Bosh…we have Love
The cost of getting Bosh is probably Love, Brew, Cardinal’s contract and a pick or some variation of that package.
The cost is too high.
Just saw the FA list for 2011 on Truehoop…scenario to toss out just for the sake of discussion…
Spend nothing in offseason…save it for 2011, spend some of it on PAU Gasol and get Rubio over here with him.
Bryan, I believe you are missing a fundamental aspect to Bosh. He ain’t gonna come to Minnesota. He is tired of playing on a team that doesn’t go deep in the playoffs.
He, like Gay, I might add, will go to a currently contending teams. These players will command significant salaries.
If we save for 2011, the top free agent target should be Durant.
And I’m not arguing that Love is what we have or that Bosh’s cost would be high. Just listing reasons why he’d be better for us.
if you wait until 2011 we should target melo……….
News Flash Marty: the only teams that can afford to pay Bosh or Gay the money they want are ourselves, New York, and New Jersey.
The NBA has this thing called a salary cap. The contending teams are already over it. Thus they can’t even offer Gay or Bosh a contract, much less one that pays them anything significant.
Just for the record, even though I think Bosh is the better player, I don’t think we should trade for him, he wants to play in Miami with Wade from what I hear. I think Wade and Bosh will talk and both sign and resign in Miami. Oneal will be traded out of there and Q’s contract will be off the books and they will have Wade, Bosh and Beasley and Chalmers to build around and that would be a great team.
I think it’s more likely Bosh stays in Toronto or goes to Chicago….
Swan, I think you’re right about 2011.
But Durant will stay with the Thunder. Why? Because he really likes his team mates and the franchise. He likes running with Jeff Green, Westbrooke and others even during the off-season. It’s one of the closer knit teams in the NBA.
Durant isn’t going anywhere and Carmello probably won’t either. I could see Wade and Bosh in Chicago too, Wade wants to play there and Bosh sounds like he just wants to play with Wade.
I’d be shocked if Melo even hits the free agent market at all in 2011. He’ll sign an extension before then.
News flash? That’s an oldie.
I think Bosh will go to one of the Texas teams if he doesn’t stay put. He’ll get his money in any event so why not play for one of the winning teams back home?
As for affording Gay or Bosh salaries, the winning teams will throw us their table scraps, has beens, and malcontents in order to free up space. Like Boston, they may also be willing to pay the luxury tax in exchange for a trophy.
Wow, I can see why you defended McHale so much. You think just like him. 100% defeatist attitude.
You should really be a fan of the Clippers or something. Take your negativity to a team worthy of it.
So, we now all are in agreement that Cole Aldrich is a fantastic 1 round pick up for the Wolves in 2010.
No. He’d be a terrible pick.
Bryan, don’t confuse negativity for realism. The Wolves will need to build primarily through the draft.
The Wolves are two years away from a significant run in the playoffs. This season they will use to install the new offense, separate wheat from chafe, draft one or two very solid draftees, pick up one or two very solid players who can contribute to the system.
Make no mistake, Kahn-Rambis are building a lasting system much like the successful ones in San Antonio and, to a lesser degree, Utah. That is why Flynn is getting some bench time, so that he fits the system instead of the system fitting him.
If we build through the draft, Evan Turner is the best pick.
I will predict as of this date, November 5, 2009, that before next year’s NBA Draft, all the naysayers will want the Wolves to draft Cole Aldrich. He will be named the MVP of the Final Four.
Evan Turner may not even be the best shooting guard in the Big Ten.
Bryan: Who will be the WNBA no 1 pick for the Lynx? The young lady from UCONN?
Marty - and he’ll still be the wrong pick. That’s like saying the Hornets should draft John Wall because he’s bigger and can play better defense than CP3
deathgrip - Jayne Appel is better than Tina Charles. Same scoring, rebounding, and blocks, but Appel averaged more than twice the assists Charles did.
well the Lynx should get very very good next year. Augustus back, the number 1 AND number 2 pick. thats crazy.
Hey look! Kevin Martin is injured again!!
Only took him 5 games this year.
Bryan
You are missing a couple of teams that will/could have enough money to sign a Max Player.
1. Miami
2. Chicago
3. Houston
4. Oklahoma City
5. LA Clippers
6. Milwaukee
7. Phoenix
Most of these teams would need to have a player opt out of his contract but they still all have the possiblilty of landing a big name/keeping the big names they have.
Miami’s money is going to Wade. Max contract, but not really taking any options away from us.
Chicago we mentioned.
Houston can’t unless Yao declines his contract option (not likely)
Oklahoma can’t unless the don’t draft anyone
Clippers just can’t (only projected to be $10-11mil under the cap)
Milwaukee can’t unless Redd declines his option…again, not likely
Phoenix just can’t. Even if Amare declines his option, that still leaves them less than $9mil under the projected cap
And even then only Chicago and maybe Houston would be considered contenders with a big free agent signing.
Bryan
Miami has enough space to sign 2 max players.
OKC just needs to sell off a player which is easy to do.
Clippers are the same as OKC as long as Telfair doesn’t pick up his option.
Phoenix- You’re right, Hoopshype’s numbers were wrong.
jama
then they’d have a 6 man team?
Telfair probably would; who else would give him that kind of money?
Blah hoopshype…use
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp
If Telfair doesn’t pick up his option, the Clippers are still sitting at $36mil, which puts them just short of a max contract. Same with OKC.
Miami though I calculated wrong. Good call.
Still, we have the fourth most money to spend next summer. We have to at least make the effort. I think we stand a better chance with Rudy Gay in particular than most people think.
Well, ya, Miami has to sign at least 7 players next summer to just qualify as a roster…
Also, I understand the appeal of trading for talent, but I don’t see anyone on the block that strikes me as a player that’d really help us. All the young talent over the next couple of years are going to be free agents this summer, are locked up by their current teams, or just players we shouldn’t even be considering.
joe johnson has to be a target - probably the best pure shooter in FA and would come slightly cheaper due ot his age probably.
thanks for the site bryan.
i’m also wondering about the future with Gomes. he’s been a solid player, but 4 mill for not much more than a decent defender at the 3 and a jump shooter (good at times, horrid at others) seems a bit steep.
Gomes I fully expect to be traded to offset picking up Brewer’s option.
There’s more marquee free agents next summer than teams that can afford them. But the ones that are likely to be signed last are the ones that are too old to fit our plans (Ray Allen, Manu, TMac, etc). So if we want in on the free agent class next summer, we have to be quick about it and do everything we can to sell the positives about the team.
The good news is from a winning potential standpoint, we hit the ideal midpoint. New York and New Jersey both have more money, but pathetic rosters. New York has literally 2 players that even THEY plan on keeping long term.
http://www.nbadraft.net/2010mock_draft
I am looking at this list I am wondering what is so ‘great’ about this draft actually; it seems about even with this year’s draft in that it is heavy for one position (in this case, its PFs whereaas this years draft it was PGs). some of the wings look pretty solid, but none are stars in the making at this point (ie, they have lots to improve on). how many in this draft could actually come in and really make an impact?
I only feel there’s two, maybe three guys that could make a huge impact for us. John Wall, for obvious reasons. Evan Turner. And maybe Derrick Favors.
Obviously you’ll notice that 2 of those players play at positions we’re already loaded at.
I would like to get Rudy Fernandez here from Portland.
How about Tyrus Thomas for Ryan Gomes? I could see the Bulls interest in that one. Gomes has a franchise friendly contract, perfect player to come off the bench for a playoff contender and Thomas is definately on the block. the Wolves already rumored to have interest in him. Why not test him out before they make an offer next season.
Tyrus thomas probably gets pech’s minutes then. but then the team is still small. what then?
Bryan
Gomes contract is only partially guaranteed so the Wolves could just decide to cut him and save a couple million.
I could go for that. A Jefferson/Thomas frontcourt would be very similar to a Nene/Kenyon Martin one.
No chance the Bulls make that trade. If anything they’ll let Thomas walk at the end of the year and use that cap space to get Bosh or Wade.
jama - true. But if we can get something of value for him, why not do it?
anyone thinkg Jermaine oneal has anyhthing left? he’ll be a FA next year…
by the way, looking at the FA list, it seems the majority of the marquee FA’s are ones with options. are they all opted out already or is speculation that they are ie Wade, LeBron, Bosh, etc
He’s too old…injuries aside, he’s just too old.
I think the cap space is more valuable than anything they can get for Gomes.
he’s only 31…but I can see your point. a lot of NBA miles on that body of his. man he would fit us very well though if he wasn’t so ‘old’ as you say.
I actually think Gomes would be a good contract to match in a trade so the other team can save a lot of money. ie add him with Cardinaly for a 10 mill contract player - gerald wallace anyone?. then the other team gets cardinals space plus can buy out Gomes if they want to save more money.
If we were to trade Gomes for Thomas, we still get the expiring contract.
Jermaine O’Neals knees are shot.
speakign of him, he just tore up the Nets that we narrowly beat - 24 points, 20 rebounds…
before the broken nose he had a couple 22/12 nights. but I see he has lost a step or 2 for sure.
Gomes would be perfect for Chicago and he has a nice versitle contract for a contender. Tyrus would make the Wolves Super athletic, the shot blocker we need badly. I think he would thrive in an up-tempo style of play, still probably be worthy of a #2 pick, but the draft is loaded with underachievers.
medschool - it’s assumption right now. Wade and Bosh both said they were opting out for sure, but then again, Boozer said that last year and he ended up not.
Gerald Wallace would be awesome, but why would the Bobcats want to trade him?
Anyone that thinks Thomas for Gomes makes sense for the Bulls is just fooling themselves. No chance that would happen
I like the defensive look with Brewer and Wallace in the lineup.
Why not? Thomas is at odds with the Bulls, he most likely will walk at the end of the season. Gomes is a great bench/team veteren player that the Bulls could use. Thomas is coming off the bench anyway.
Thomas will walk at the end of the season. The Bulls have already demonstrated they have no interest in keeping him, and he’s been frequently at odds with Vinny Del Negro.
There’s just as many reasons why they’d trade as there are why they wouldn’t.
And the Kings are officially in the John Wall sweepsteaks. Kevin Martin out 6-8 weeks.
This is why Swan and I want no part of him. Too expensive for what he does, and he’s made of freakin glass.
So the most the Bulls could get for Thomas is a low level role player?Ok you got me. Plus I think the Bulls will match an offer and bring him back next year. He is a restricted FA.
Why are Wolves fans so delusional when it comes to trades? You can’t just take the players the Wolves don’t want and get back a impact player.
Bryan - I would think they would trade him simply because they could get a good wing in the draft and sort of ’start over’. they really aren’t going anywhere beyond a .500 team. we could give them cap relief with something like Cardinal/Gomes, plus gomes is a serviceable player at a deep discount. they could even buy him out, and use the space to go get a marquee FA to help them.
I was reading on Joe johnson. an article stated the Hawks would do ‘everythign they could to keep him’ but honestly, why would he want to go back? they will maybe make the playoffs again, but without thim, they are pretty bad. i could see him going to another team for a) promise/potential or b) a contender for a bit less money. imagine him taking those shots instead of Brewer - honestly he makes perfect sense for us.
Thomas is a huge risk, he is far from a sure thing. But the Wolves probably should roll the dice, they have nothing to lose. Gomes would be a great role player for the right team. No way Chicago brings him back, He and Del Negro are at odds and they have already invested 10 mil into him, i don’t see them investing more than that again.
jama
Gomes could give them similar production at a discount…really, at this point vinny has him at 23 minutes and he’s producing about 9 points, 7 boards. very reminiscent of Gomes production.
The Bulls are definitely not bringing Thomas back. Only way that happens is if they strike out completely in free agency. They didn’t even try to offer him an extension, and since his qualifying offer counts as a cap hold against them, the only way they can afford a max contract is to renounce his rights.
If you read anything in the Chicago media about him, it’s very clear he is not going to be a Bull next season.
I give up. You guys win that trade makes total sense.
I’m not saying it makes total sense. Just that there are reasons the Bulls would trade him just to be rid of him.
Same with Rudy Gay. If his feud with Mayo escalates, they may trade him midseason as well.
jama- lol.
I can’t wait to see love play in the triangle, i think he might be a better option to run the PF spot than AL, Love is a much better passer. I have to think Al will slide to the center spot.
Or be traded altogether. Between Kahn’s comments and the painful lack of interior defense, you have to think one of them is gone within a year.
Thats why the rumors of AL for Amare came up before the draft. Khans comments of AL being the 3rd option on a contender, he could easily be traded.
I would trade AL for Amare and keep Love if Amare would sign long term here.
What’s this? Sid Hartman has something positive to say about the Wolves?
Hey, who’s taken over Marty McFly’s moniker?
And who do you like with that No. 1 overall Lynx pick: Tina Charles and Jayne Appel?
Let the debate commence!
Jerry
can’t they get both? I thought they had the #2 pick from Washingtom as well?
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